To even think that the movie was funded by the fans... They raised up more than 5 MILLIONS DOLLARS to keep this show alive, and now they leave us with this gigantic midle finger in the face.
This isn't the movie, this is season 4 of Veronica Mars, it takes place after the movie. 5 million dollars isn't much budget when making a movie that's based on a tv show.
@@sparkly21 Well it is when you don't have them. Fans were the reason the movie and S4 were made in the first place. So yeah a huge slap in the face to all of us. And yet S5 has been cancelled so i guess we are the ones having the last laugh after all....
This is straight facts and even Jason was really upset Rob went this direction. If I didn’t know better, I’d say Rob sabotaged it on purpose. Because no one with a working brain cell could logically think that killing Logan was the only viable option to take the show “more noir” and get away from high school elements of their on again/off again relationship. They set the perfect framework for a sound stable relationship between them and a budding partnership in solving the crimes. The formula was great and would have worked wonderfully. Adding that they can send Logan off to his Navy missions to help add chemistry of separation, killing him in some Shakespearean tragedy manner was idiotic. And 100% a slap in the face of the fans.
B R I N G H I M B A C K R O B I just marathoned the whole series for the first time ever and I haven’t been this furious since the game of thrones ending.
NO. NOOOO. Logan's alarm was settled to ring 10 minutes earlier, he moved the car, got home, closed the door and THEN the bomb exploded. End of the show.
Watching this, I’d say Logan was the toughest character on the show. It’s not a contest-I get that-but the point I’m making is that, even more than Veronica, Logan picked himself up from such a bad start & became a healthy, functioning, trusting, emphatic and giving person by the end. Think about it: Logan was repeatedoh physically abused by his father as a child, his mother killed herself when he was in high school, his father slept with his girlfriend then murdered her, then there was big public trial & made-for-TV movie making Logan infamous while still a teenager, then his dad was murdered & Logan was orphaned, and Logan was falsely accused of murder-all before college. Later on another important person in Logan’s life was killed and he was falsely charged with a high-profile murder AGAIN. Oh, and his heart was broken & sincerity doubted by Veronica *many, many times.* The fact that he’s not a basket case is outstanding. If anything, it’s Logan’s genes that need to be passed on.
100%. I loved high school and college Logan because he was hysterical and a total bad ass and witty. But, the strong stable emotionally healthy Logan was JUST as fantastic. In fact, to piggy back that ultimate version of him onto his younger wild version made it that much sweeter. He’s one of my all time favorite characters anywhere, and Jason did a superb job playing the range of Logan’s vulnerability with his harder side.
You know what's fucked about this? They used the death of a character, who was actually getting help in therapy to heal his trauma, as a pivot point for Veronica to finally go to therapy - which completely screws her character. Because somehow she needs more danger and more tragedy to change instead of creating a powerful character who DECIDES to go to therapy with the man she loves because she wants to be better.
Killing Keith would have sucked but i agree it would have been better than Logan, I hate when the writers say they wanted to get back to roots of where the show started it WAS a noir private investigator story of a lone detective, well guess what shows and characters evolve pass that, killing Logan, to me is just lazy, there’s so much more that could have been done with a Logan who was happy, and finally well adjusted. This didn’t feel earned. Especially when he barely had any screen time with the man who blew him up…the more I think on this ending the more I hate it.
NOPE NOPE NOPE. Loved this season, but for me it ends 10 minutes beforehand and that's it. Don't you dare giving us another season and making me come to term with things that DIDN'T HAPPEN, oh you Rob Thomas.
Hearing Logan Talking about Wanting to have Children with Veronica Made me Cry so much I really wish Logan is still alive and is just in a coma for season 5
I think Thomas did a great job ending iZombie on a happy note. The main characters knew what needed to be known about each other and everything/everyone else just moved forward. The characters Veronica & Logan deserved better than a planted car bomb killing an hour after they got married!! Ridiculous !!
@@iamsultana I think he believed that, with Logan out, he could have moved the story into a new direction (?), but obviously (and, in all honesty, luckily) it didn't work out. And, imo, it's not even the death itself: it's the motivation that's all wrong. For her to be healthy and 'indipendent' (what??) she needed to be alove? It's crap. I'll forever love the show, i'm rewatching it just now, but the motivations RT gave for Logan's death are ridicoulous. He pulled a Marissa Cooper shot and was rewarded consequently. Can't say I'm unhappy about it.
No body = No death. They could def. bring him back and I think they will. There are too many clues in his "death" scene that make me think he's still alive. I think that the writers and everyone are playing along with the fact he is "dead" to trick the audience.
I (and many other fans) LITERALLY invested money into this franchise by giving money to the Kickstarter campaign. This ending feels like a punch in the face to all of us.
I cant even watch the whole last episode because i dont want to fully acknowledge that Logan dies in it. Even though the LoVe wedding happens during it
I just want to say thank you to mads for these vids! I have been missing LoVe something fierce (I become very attached to fictional characters) and these saved me from having to watch the whole series again. THANK YOU!
This is so wrong. Logan deserved better. Jason deserved better. We all deserved to see Veronica have a small part of her life be happy. I can’t see how Veronica can be anything but bitter and angry at the fate of the love of her life. Where does that take the show now? She will be too hardened and unrelated. The love element of S4 gave it a human realism that was relatable and attainable. These two characters were so flawed and damaged by their past but in each other they saw hope and a bright future that made them stronger people to deal with their jobs and the world. And the fans could relate to their love and desire what they had together. It didn’t have to be a “Happily Ever After” but Logan didn’t have to die. I am heartbroken and can’t deal with this. In watching S4 I just wanted to see Logan. Jason gave Logan depth and charisma in S4 and I found myself longing to see him in more scenes. For me S4 was all about Logan and Veronica, Jason and Kristen. I can’t watch S5. It will be too hard. For me S4 ended with Logan and Veronica driving into the sunset on their honeymoon.
Looks like Rob Thomas lost his gamble, no Veronica Mars season 5, so there's no chance to fix it. I`d really prefer if it was 8 episodes and fast forward to Veronica and Logan being happy maybe some kids, maybe some Lily dream sequence and that`d be an and of a series permanently and that would be an epic ending to an epic story. Instead, we got half baked open ending which will stay unsatisfactory forever.
Hello ? I would never accept this ending, wtf, I'm in a "No body No death" mood. This show was able to have its movie, then season 4 thanks to us, the fans, but I don't know how Rob was thinking and he decided to make a bet on the possibility to make a season 5 by killing Logan? Like if the fact of killing him was a good decision for new content?
Yo sigo llorando por la muerte de Logan. No solo eso, si no que esta era la oportunidad perfecta para ver a Verónica en una faceta diferente a la de siempre. Por fin, obteniendo su final feliz. También tenemos el hecho de que ella se casó. Y era feliz con su decisión. Una decisión que ni en años luz hubiera tomado de no ser por qué realmente amaba a Logan. Tal y como vimos en la temporada 4 (con lo del anillo y los niños). Ella generalmente, jamás se enamoró de nadie realmente por miedo a que la abandonaran tal y como su madre lo hizo al dejarlos solos a su padre y a ella. Aparte, de que tenía sus traumas con lo de ser abusada y haber perdido a su mejor amiga. Veronica era cerrada y sarcástica ante su alrededor. Para que ella, una persona que le huía al compromiso, decidiera casarse, ¡que madurez!. Pero nada simplemente le arrancaron lo único que la hacía feliz. Aparte de su padre y su trabajo. Y hablando de eso, Logan era una persona que no solo era el interés romántico de Verónica, si no que fue el ser con el que podía ser ella misma sin reprimirse, no solo eso. El personaje de Logan era ese ser que le devolvió el amor a su trabajo tal y como lo vimos en la película. Por lo que quitarselo fue una tragedia.
To me Logan was as much part of the show as Veronica Mars. I loved this season (-10 last min) but I am not sure I will watch next season...if there is one !
I have no doubt that tomorrow night's finale of Jane the Virgin will show Rob how a show SHOULD end, as opposed to the horrible season/series finale Veronica Mars was given.
@@xTLtokio I respectfully disagree, I've always been team Jafael. However, just because he didn't end up with Jane doesn't mean the ending for him was bad. On last weeks show he popped up engaged to Charlie, and she was pregnant. He didn't get blown up after just getting married like Veronica Mars.
Death is not the only shitty thing you can do to a character. Michael was tortured until he forgets who he was and he comes back and nobody seems to care about his well being all Jane wants to do is get rid of him, she may be in love with someone in that point but is not the way you treat someone who you promised spent the rest of your life with. They never gave one scene between Michael & Rogelio. Maybe the just did dirty to Michael fans.
@@xTLtokio I understand what you're saying, but IMO it just seemed like Jane always belonged with Rafael. Everything that happened between the two characters just seemed like fate. Plus, when Michael came back he wasn't the Michael Jane fell in love with and they both knew it. I'm just happy that they did give him his own happy ending in his new life, who was much more compatible with who he turned into.
This is the only show I’ve watched that I’ve loved enough to get angry about. When I heard the spoilers of what happened to Logan, I didn’t bother watching season 4. I was livid, I was so angry I threw all three seasons of VM DVDs into the trash. Then I was mad about it for a whole week. Just writing this, I realize I’m still mad. I’ve never had this kind of reaction to any show, but then I’ve never connected with any show like I did with this one. I hope someday i can stop being angry and finally watch the last season but for now I will pretend it doesn’t exist
The only thing that could have saved this ending would have been if as Veronica is driving away she glances in the mirror and sees a baby in a car seat asleep in the backseat. And snuggled up in a blanket that has marshmallows on it.
I know I’m in denial BUT they never showed the body/grave nor did they ever expressly say he was dead so I chose to believe he’s either in a coma or was kidnapped and if they ever chose to revive the show they better bring him back as well
The only thing stupider than marrying and then killing logan in the last ten minutes was the fact that genius detective Veronica, Keith, and the entire police department didn't think about the backpack of the known bomber sitting in her car all day while she drove it around all day. What was even dumber, neither Veronica or Keith thought to look inside to backpack of a man they suspected to be a bomber. And Penn, under investigation for the bombing, carried a backpack bomb with him trusting the two PI's wouldn't look at his stuff and then left it in her car to destruct at the start of the city-wide street cleaning time. When 99% of the resident's cars would have already been moved and parked. This writing was just straight-up dumb.
Logan’s death in of itself isn’t a bad choice IF it were the ending of the entire franchise. His character deserved to make it until the very end and I think the fans agree, because they have completely turned on the idea of the show continuing without him. I don’t understand why future stories couldn’t have revolved around the mystery of Logan’s disappearance for most of a season while on a military mission that Veronica has to break some rules to solve or the Fitzpatricks Irish mob returns to disrupt their happy married life with the end of season three coming back to haunt Logan. Or even make the evolution of Logan’s character now that he had his life together be to regress and become a criminal maybe in order to save Veronica or her dad but he gets caught and has to go to jail stuck inside with all Veronica’s old enemies. He’s always been a dark haunted character, why not bring that edge back? Or use a combination of these things. Anything. Anything but what we got. All in all, Rob Thomas saying that Logan needed to go so Veronica Mars could turn into an adult noir is bs. There were plenty of creative stories left to tell, this was just a terrible choice and effectively put a premature permanent end to the series. Well done, smh 🤦♂️
The way Rob wrote Logan this season was so weird. I get that he's Logan reborn but he didn't even feel like Logan. You could tell Jason was desperately trying to make it work with adding in some of his Logan mannerisms but it felt so unnatural. You can tell Rob truly had no idea what to do with the character and that's really why he killed him.
I had this initial response that they made Logan into a bit of a cyborg, but after watching several times, I actually loved it. Because Logan became the most stable mature balanced person on the show. All while still being sexy and appealing. Piz was stable and mature, but a total bore. Logan was able to be everything and grew into a true man. I think Rob set the tone to be able to have a Veronica and Logan crime fighting duo strong relationship with a working formula and then decided to just take a giant ice machine dump all over it.
I think it's all a plan, Logan has a secretive job and they used this to fake his death. You don't see him actually die🤷♀️ a dream might come off a bit corny...
Por lo que leí en la temporada 5 no va a aparecer Logan ,el productor dijo que para salvar la serie tenia que cambiar la temática,si seguía siendo una historia de romance se iba a terminar. No estoy de acuerdo ,para que las series rindan los personajes principales tienen que ser unos desgraciados en su vida personal? Si querían que el personaje de Verónica se ocupara mas en el de detective podrían mandar a Logan a embarcarse en la marina o a trabajar en otro lado y que apareciera menos en la serie pero no matarlo ,eso me disgusto mucho , siempre me gusto mucho esta pareja y espere mucho tiempo para que se quedaran juntos, me enoja que los productores hagan estas cosas con los personajes,
I loved this season. I don't agree with killing Logan but i see what Rob was trying to do. Setting up something new by literally blowing up something old they people love is a gamble and we lost.
There’s definitely some wiggle room available here… could write Logan as being in a coma and the dialogue would still fit. But it’s not like anyone is asking for more of the show anymore. He killed the fandom.
I understand the anger of the fans, the reason why I love Veronica Mars so much is because she endured a lot without giving up. We all wanted her happy ending but I guess not every ending can be a happy ending.
I know I’m late to this but I recently binged this show. Wtf crap ending is that? I mean I didn’t even care that much that Veronica ends up with Logan but killing him off was a shit decision. He was an interesting character even without VM. He could have had his own adventures or even be a re occurring character. All that growth for nothing.
Here’s the thing- we ALL agree that Veronica and Logan living happily ever after is the perfect ending. Rob’s point is that that would be the end. I don’t like it, but we likely wouldn’t be asking for more if those last minutes didn’t happen. It is a large bet hinging on the hope that there will be future seasons. There should have been another way to create discord/unfinished business. However, the tragedy is spurring Veronica to do more with her life. She isn’t meant to stay in Neptune. I think they will go the FBI which they originally pitched before the show was cancelled after season 3
But it probably should have been the end. The cancelation of the show left it so unfinished but all this story needed was an ending. Season 4 was needed but it also should have been the end. Veronica Mars is an amazing show but you can't keep milking it until it dries. I know it hurts but shows need to end when the storyline still makes since. When you keep trying to stretch storylines out you end up having to take out their cores just to make them interesting. Just like now how they killed Logan. To many shows are ruined because the creators and fans are to attached to them to say goodbye.
It’s just ignorant because his original pitch with the FBI idea was shut down and he played the fans just so he could once again try the idea no one wanted. We want LOGAN! Also, they made Veronica unbearable in this season.. I hated that.
@@peyton4895 I agree. The issue that I see is that season 1 got a mass following. People loved the characters and the developing relationship between Logan and Veronica. It all worked and people loved the show. Season 2 was fine but then it got worse as they went along and ended up cancelled. This show should have been 6-7 seasons and that is it. Rob could have done two years in high school and 4 years at college and then that would be the end of Veronica Mars. Instead it was cancelled and a movie was done in the middle and then season 4 15 years later from the time it started. To me, it was like seeing my child all grown up but I missed his entire childhood. I even hated the mystery on season 4 with the obnoxious Patton Oswalt. He was so irritating. They took a likable character who use to be compassionate and sweet and turned her into someone I didn't even recognize.
@@peyton4895 I agree. It should have been 6-7 seasons max and ran all the way through without a break. They ruined it when it was cancelled and then came back years later. It felt like having a child that was all grown up but I missed the most important part which was his childhood. Rob made a great two seasons and then it went downhill. The huge break ruined the rhythm that the show had going. Yes, life doesn't end many times as a happy ever after but in this particular case it should have because we have enough sad things happen in life and just once wanted that fairy tale ending. No, people don't have to grow at the same pace but Logan had it a LOT worse than Veronica. He had zero stable adults in his life and very little love (if any) but Veronica had at least one stable figure. Yet she completely changed from her teen character. She acted as if she was devoid of all compassion and was horrible in the way she treated Logan and her other friends. I think a season 5, if they should have one, will fail. The reason is that the relationships, the romances and the various characters are what drew people to the show. You can't just leave that all behind and go forward with a completely different show.
B1959 especially sense one of the most charming things about this show is that Veronica is going all this badass stuff as a teenager while also going through school. Now that she’s older she’s just doing her job. It’s now just another criminal show.
As a writer, l understand why they had to kill off Logan, he was holding her to her old life to high school. As a fan my soft little marshmallow heart is broken!
I don't understand how Logan was holding her back? He left to the army or navy she could of done whatever she wanted during the mean time. She didn't have to marry him, could have let him go during the movie also. They could of easily just left him with someone else, besides killing him off. Not fair
Worst decision in tv history to (apparently) kill him, he was the character with the most growth of anyone!! He was amazing!! They need to bring him BACK, I don't care how, there is always a way!! They could have killed anyone else and we the fans wouldn't have been as angry as this!!
this is genius - okay so now i legit have hope that he had to be extracted or something with the navy and he had to pretend he's dead. thats what i'm going to believe from now on.... yup exactly that :D
Audrey Bloomfield Haha dude its the only thing keeping my head above the water. But I tried explaining it to my brother (who hasn’t seen the show) and he didn’t think it was strong evidence. That being said, Rob Thomas is known to bring people back from the dead
@@molliemcmullan9187 fingers crossed!! i wouldn't be surprised if it did happen knowing the show... i really hope it does, they deserve a happy ending :')
I never watched this show but I web surf and read stuff but I somehow came across this. Rob Thomas is an idiot and his defiant "I won't bring him back" reinforces this. Seeing that Season 5 is now in limbo and Rob's stunt backfired, he can still bring Logan back. -- Another thing; Movie and show writers lie all the time. They'll do anything to preserve spoilers. Remember the controversy over Capt. America being a secret HYDRA agent in the comics? It turned out to be some weird story involving impostors and alternate universes and not the real Cap. You wouldn't have known it if you listened to the guy who wrote that story at the time when fans got outraged. -- So; Seeing that his attempt to "save" this show actually killed it and everyone's outrage... it's possible Thomas will bring back Logan as a cool unspoilered surprise twist. He was thrown from the car when it blew up and he's in hiding due to some top secret cloak & dagger espionage stuff. -- Also; Veronica can still do her thing with Logan by her side. Rob Thomas needs to know this as well as the concept of "Battle Couples". Veronica & Logan solving mysteries together! -- And if Rob's too stupid to rectify this. Just take the last episode, edit out the last bit and the whole thing ends with Veronica & Logan getting married... perhaps with a cool pre-credits "After The Story" text stating that the two became a team... ... then write a bunch of great fan-fiction of these two and their continuing adventures. -- Remember; You don't have to accept the ending they give you. It's all fiction so there's no real difference between canon & non-canon in the big cosmic scheme of things. -- Logan survived the bomb, period! -- Likewise; Colonel Blake got home safely, Newt returned to Earth, Derek & Danny Vinyard turn away from Neo-Nazism and both live long happy lives, Joanna outsmarts the Men's Association, etc. If a grim ending makes you barf... you don't have to accept it. With fan fiction and / or video fan edits you can do anything! -- Since there's likely not going to be a Season 5 with Veronica Mars, it's up to fans to come up with their own. START TYPING!
I have said the same thing about the “battle couples”. They literally laid the groundwork for the perfect crime solving duo. Especially with Logan’s amazing Navy training. Fighting and languages. And then took a dump on it all. It’s mind boggling.
@@steffnic13 The fact that people petitioned to have this resurrected only for the guy creating it literally slapping fans in the face is pure betrayal. It's as much their show as it is his. - I also hate the "Whedon-esque, "My characters should never have lasting happiness" trope. What's the point in watching the show and getting into the characters if it's all futile?
I have a feeling that the ending with Veronica leaving Neptune also opens for Logan to be rescurrected. It could be that there's a look-alike of him in another city. I hope atleast.
She’ll probably be a lonely bitter bitch, that’s what Rob Thomas wants. He wants her to be lonely, bitter, broken and free to have sex with every man she encounters. He basically said that multiple times.
This was a great ending. It makes perfect sense. Veronica is like a batman. A wolverine. Happiness is not meant for them. Only tragedy. Her leaving neptune which was no longer neptune was perfect.
It also does not make sense that someone who took a psych degree would be so anti-therapy and anti-Logan bcming a better version of himself. Why’d you have to blow up an all round hot guy, Rob?
Why did they kill of Logan? I don't understand? Why? Why have them get married and then just kill him? That's so dumb. You can't kill off one of America's sweethearts? They were finally happy!! D:< update: I've read through the articles of why the creator Rob Thomas said that Logan needed to die because Veronica couldn't have a boyfriend waiting at home for her so she could be a true detective. As a creator myself, I don't agree with this. Logan was her ROCK. Her one person she could go home to. Her EPIC soulmate. You can't just take him away for some emotional drive for Veronica. You just can't. In my mind, Logan and Veronica will be together. Logan doesn't die. Logan and Veronica work together to raise a family, even with all of the detective drama. You can still have that. Take Bones for example with Brennan and Booth. They made it work. Why couldn't you? *rant over*
I just finished this season and I really have enjoyed it. Talking about Logan´s death, I have to say I don´t understand why are so many people angry at writers. Was I sad that Logan was killed ? Yes, I even cried a little. Am I mad at writers ? No, because life isn´t always a fairytale. And I am glad that Veronica Mars series isn´t full of "Hollywood happy endings", it just makes it a little more believable. You got happy ending with Keith, he could have died defusing the bomb and he didn´t. He was also supposed to be deadly ill, but in the end he wasn´t and is healthy. That´s one happy ending here. Veronica marries Logan and they live happy life, well that not happened. I wish they had a happy ending. But this is life and life isn´t always fair.
eh Kristen Bell is getting a theme of having garbage series endings... just like the train wreck that the good place ending was... glad I stopped with season 3... I'll write my own story in my head for the characters thanks lol
never liked V and Logan so not a problem for me i always find their relationship really f up Logan is the ex boyfriend of her dead best friend also the son of the guy who killed Lili ans try to kill her and her dad even if Logan have nothing to do with it still weird clearly one of her bully at the beginning a really toxic relationship breaking up getting back together breaking up again.. he slept with the girl who give her the drug glass who lead her to be raped .. idk it's just fuc**** up to me
To even think that the movie was funded by the fans... They raised up more than 5 MILLIONS DOLLARS to keep this show alive, and now they leave us with this gigantic midle finger in the face.
This isn't the movie, this is season 4 of Veronica Mars, it takes place after the movie. 5 million dollars isn't much budget when making a movie that's based on a tv show.
@@sparkly21 Well it is when you don't have them. Fans were the reason the movie and S4 were made in the first place. So yeah a huge slap in the face to all of us. And yet S5 has been cancelled so i guess we are the ones having the last laugh after all....
@@sparkly21 actually this season takes place after the two books, they are canon
I don’t know the books, but I have LOVE the show. I thought the ending was fitting though I am sad to see it end.
This is straight facts and even Jason was really upset Rob went this direction. If I didn’t know better, I’d say Rob sabotaged it on purpose. Because no one with a working brain cell could logically think that killing Logan was the only viable option to take the show “more noir” and get away from high school elements of their on again/off again relationship. They set the perfect framework for a sound stable relationship between them and a budding partnership in solving the crimes. The formula was great and would have worked wonderfully. Adding that they can send Logan off to his Navy missions to help add chemistry of separation, killing him in some Shakespearean tragedy manner was idiotic. And 100% a slap in the face of the fans.
B R I N G H I M B A C K R O B
I just marathoned the whole series for the first time ever and I haven’t been this furious since the game of thrones ending.
Exactly! Because this is not GOT. Good people don't have to die!
I am pissed off at this outcome! Why did you kill Logan off? Jason Dorhing is a great actor. Bring him back!
Watching S1 to S3 all over again.
This was a dream. Logan is alive.
Logan is alive. Logan is alive. Logan is alive.
I haven't watched season 4 yet but I am going to stop watching after they get married.
Its alive alive alive❤
I’m so upset they wasted so much time 😭
Wait, Logan dies????? 😟
Logan was always my favorite on VM and I hate the way they killed him off. As a marshmallow since season 1, I'm out unless Rob brings him back.
I agree!!!!!
NO. NOOOO. Logan's alarm was settled to ring 10 minutes earlier, he moved the car, got home, closed the door and THEN the bomb exploded. End of the show.
Watching this, I’d say Logan was the toughest character on the show. It’s not a contest-I get that-but the point I’m making is that, even more than Veronica, Logan picked himself up from such a bad start & became a healthy, functioning, trusting, emphatic and giving person by the end.
Think about it: Logan was repeatedoh physically abused by his father as a child, his mother killed herself when he was in high school, his father slept with his girlfriend then murdered her, then there was big public trial & made-for-TV movie making Logan infamous while still a teenager, then his dad was murdered & Logan was orphaned, and Logan was falsely accused of murder-all before college. Later on another important person in Logan’s life was killed and he was falsely charged with a high-profile murder AGAIN. Oh, and his heart was broken & sincerity doubted by Veronica *many, many times.* The fact that he’s not a basket case is outstanding. If anything, it’s Logan’s genes that need to be passed on.
100%. I loved high school and college Logan because he was hysterical and a total bad ass and witty. But, the strong stable emotionally healthy Logan was JUST as fantastic. In fact, to piggy back that ultimate version of him onto his younger wild version made it that much sweeter. He’s one of my all time favorite characters anywhere, and Jason did a superb job playing the range of Logan’s vulnerability with his harder side.
You know what's fucked about this? They used the death of a character, who was actually getting help in therapy to heal his trauma, as a pivot point for Veronica to finally go to therapy - which completely screws her character. Because somehow she needs more danger and more tragedy to change instead of creating a powerful character who DECIDES to go to therapy with the man she loves because she wants to be better.
can I just say, I love Keith but if they wanted a tragic ending for veronica to continue her story, I would’ve rather they killed off Keith instead.
Killing Keith would have sucked but i agree it would have been better than Logan, I hate when the writers say they wanted to get back to roots of where the show started it WAS a noir private investigator story of a lone detective, well guess what shows and characters evolve pass that, killing Logan, to me is just lazy, there’s so much more that could have been done with a Logan who was happy, and finally well adjusted. This didn’t feel earned. Especially when he barely had any screen time with the man who blew him up…the more I think on this ending the more I hate it.
So Logan is gonna get resurrected. I’m glad we’ve made this decision Rob.
What?
seriously, what are you saying?
vampgrl79 have you not watched the new season?
the latest season, season 4? Yes I saw all 8 episodes. So pissed off at the ending.
vampgrl79 yess me too and what I meant was that they better be resurrecting Logan bc everyone’s mad about this ending cause it sucks
We need to Logan Revival like Verónica mars . . Wtf Rob!!!! i don't watch anymore if Jason dohring dont back to this show
saaame! I hope they'll find a way to bring him back!!
Logan and veronica are epic, they gave us hope. Now that hope is gone.
I liked how you summed it all up lol.
NOPE NOPE NOPE.
Loved this season, but for me it ends 10 minutes beforehand and that's it.
Don't you dare giving us another season and making me come to term with things that DIDN'T HAPPEN, oh you Rob Thomas.
like how i met your mother
How could they not let them be happy? How could they kill Logan!
Hearing Logan Talking about Wanting to have Children with Veronica Made me Cry so much
I really wish Logan is still alive and is just in a coma for season 5
Nope I'm done, u can't have Veronica without Logan
This truly breaks my heart
I think Thomas did a great job ending iZombie on a happy note. The main characters knew what needed to be known about each other and everything/everyone else just moved forward.
The characters Veronica & Logan deserved better than a planted car bomb killing an hour after they got married!! Ridiculous !!
SERIOUSLY, what made Rob think that was a quality noir ending? It was so soap opery and cringy.
@@iamsultana I think he believed that, with Logan out, he could have moved the story into a new direction (?), but obviously (and, in all honesty, luckily) it didn't work out. And, imo, it's not even the death itself: it's the motivation that's all wrong. For her to be healthy and 'indipendent' (what??) she needed to be alove? It's crap. I'll forever love the show, i'm rewatching it just now, but the motivations RT gave for Logan's death are ridicoulous. He pulled a Marissa Cooper shot and was rewarded consequently. Can't say I'm unhappy about it.
No body = No death.
They could def. bring him back and I think they will. There are too many clues in his "death" scene that make me think he's still alive. I think that the writers and everyone are playing along with the fact he is "dead" to trick the audience.
I really hope that because if it just stays here I’m gonna be pissed
He is alive!
I (and many other fans) LITERALLY invested money into this franchise by giving money to the Kickstarter campaign.
This ending feels like a punch in the face to all of us.
I cant even watch the whole last episode because i dont want to fully acknowledge that Logan dies in it. Even though the LoVe wedding happens during it
Jessica Murphy You are not the only one, I can not stop crying it is so sad.
I just want to say thank you to mads for these vids! I have been missing LoVe something fierce (I become very attached to fictional characters) and these saved me from having to watch the whole series again. THANK YOU!
Well we'll pretend this season didn't exist !
This is so wrong. Logan deserved better. Jason deserved better. We all deserved to see Veronica have a small part of her life be happy. I can’t see how Veronica can be anything but bitter and angry at the fate of the love of her life. Where does that take the show now? She will be too hardened and unrelated. The love element of S4 gave it a human realism that was relatable and attainable. These two characters were so flawed and damaged by their past but in each other they saw hope and a bright future that made them stronger people to deal with their jobs and the world. And the fans could relate to their love and desire what they had together. It didn’t have to be a “Happily Ever After” but Logan didn’t have to die. I am heartbroken and can’t deal with this. In watching S4 I just wanted to see Logan. Jason gave Logan depth and charisma in S4 and I found myself longing to see him in more scenes. For me S4 was all about Logan and Veronica, Jason and Kristen. I can’t watch S5. It will be too hard. For me S4 ended with Logan and Veronica driving into the sunset on their honeymoon.
Looks like Rob Thomas lost his gamble, no Veronica Mars season 5, so there's no chance to fix it. I`d really prefer if it was 8 episodes and fast forward to Veronica and Logan being happy maybe some kids, maybe some Lily dream sequence and that`d be an and of a series permanently and that would be an epic ending to an epic story. Instead, we got half baked open ending which will stay unsatisfactory forever.
Hello ? I would never accept this ending, wtf, I'm in a "No body No death" mood.
This show was able to have its movie, then season 4 thanks to us, the fans, but I don't know how Rob was thinking and he decided to make a bet on the possibility to make a season 5 by killing Logan? Like if the fact of killing him was a good decision for new content?
Sharon Radar!! Never seen this show but came across season 1 highlights and now cane wait to watch
Yo sigo llorando por la muerte de Logan.
No solo eso, si no que esta era la oportunidad perfecta para ver a Verónica en una faceta diferente a la de siempre.
Por fin, obteniendo su final feliz.
También tenemos el hecho de que ella se casó. Y era feliz con su decisión.
Una decisión que ni en años luz hubiera tomado de no ser por qué realmente amaba a Logan. Tal y como vimos en la temporada 4 (con lo del anillo y los niños).
Ella generalmente, jamás se enamoró de nadie realmente por miedo a que la abandonaran tal y como su madre lo hizo al dejarlos solos a su padre y a ella. Aparte, de que tenía sus traumas con lo de ser abusada y haber perdido a su mejor amiga.
Veronica era cerrada y sarcástica ante su alrededor. Para que ella, una persona que le huía al compromiso, decidiera casarse, ¡que madurez!.
Pero nada simplemente le arrancaron lo único que la hacía feliz. Aparte de su padre y su trabajo.
Y hablando de eso, Logan era una persona que no solo era el interés romántico de Verónica, si no que fue el ser con el que podía ser ella misma sin reprimirse, no solo eso. El personaje de Logan era ese ser que le devolvió el amor a su trabajo tal y como lo vimos en la película. Por lo que quitarselo fue una tragedia.
To me Logan was as much part of the show as Veronica Mars. I loved this season (-10 last min) but I am not sure I will watch next season...if there is one !
Well I’ll watch the new season when Logan comes back
They could make season 5 about her quest to find Duncan and Meg’ baby and bring him back legally since she said she’s going away for a while.
I SWEAR IM SO FREAKING MAD THAT THEY KILLED OFF LOGAN. HIS CHARACTER ARC WAS EVERYTHING AND I MISS HIM UGH
I have no doubt that tomorrow night's finale of Jane the Virgin will show Rob how a show SHOULD end, as opposed to the horrible season/series finale Veronica Mars was given.
Jane the virgin is not an example of good writing. The did Michael Cordero dirty too.
@@xTLtokio I respectfully disagree, I've always been team Jafael. However, just because he didn't end up with Jane doesn't mean the ending for him was bad. On last weeks show he popped up engaged to Charlie, and she was pregnant. He didn't get blown up after just getting married like Veronica Mars.
Death is not the only shitty thing you can do to a character. Michael was tortured until he forgets who he was and he comes back and nobody seems to care about his well being all Jane wants to do is get rid of him, she may be in love with someone in that point but is not the way you treat someone who you promised spent the rest of your life with. They never gave one scene between Michael & Rogelio. Maybe the just did dirty to Michael fans.
@@xTLtokio I understand what you're saying, but IMO it just seemed like Jane always belonged with Rafael. Everything that happened between the two characters just seemed like fate. Plus, when Michael came back he wasn't the Michael Jane fell in love with and they both knew it. I'm just happy that they did give him his own happy ending in his new life, who was much more compatible with who he turned into.
@@xTLtokio completely agree with everything you said about Jane the virgin but most particularly about Michael. 😠
I don't think he's dead. We didn't see him inside the car. He was standing nearby. He could have been kidnapped. Or something else
This is the only show I’ve watched that I’ve loved enough to get angry about. When I heard the spoilers of what happened to Logan, I didn’t bother watching season 4. I was livid, I was so angry I threw all three seasons of VM DVDs into the trash. Then I was mad about it for a whole week. Just writing this, I realize I’m still mad. I’ve never had this kind of reaction to any show, but then I’ve never connected with any show like I did with this one. I hope someday i can stop being angry and finally watch the last season but for now I will pretend it doesn’t exist
The only thing that could have saved this ending would have been if as Veronica is driving away she glances in the mirror and sees a baby in a car seat asleep in the backseat.
And snuggled up in a blanket that has marshmallows on it.
the recording broke me so i'm in denial... logan never died.
Absolutely love this from the start to finish... And I had a crush on Logan and Veronica... For different reasons. Lol 😂
This is worse than the Buffy and Angel ending. WHY?!
Why couldn't he have lived, WHY!!!!!
This made my ball when I first watched it and now becoming a widow myself I ball EVEN MORE. 😭
I know I’m in denial BUT they never showed the body/grave nor did they ever expressly say he was dead so I chose to believe he’s either in a coma or was kidnapped and if they ever chose to revive the show they better bring him back as well
Bring them back❤❤❤❤
I just Finished s4 and I’m in shock truly no words 😪
Please give me a LoVe child; you killed Logan, at least give me that Rob. AT.LEAST.GIVE.ME.THAT.
The only thing stupider than marrying and then killing logan in the last ten minutes was the fact that genius detective Veronica, Keith, and the entire police department didn't think about the backpack of the known bomber sitting in her car all day while she drove it around all day. What was even dumber, neither Veronica or Keith thought to look inside to backpack of a man they suspected to be a bomber. And Penn, under investigation for the bombing, carried a backpack bomb with him trusting the two PI's wouldn't look at his stuff and then left it in her car to destruct at the start of the city-wide street cleaning time. When 99% of the resident's cars would have already been moved and parked. This writing was just straight-up dumb.
Logan’s death in of itself isn’t a bad choice IF it were the ending of the entire franchise.
His character deserved to make it until the very end and I think the fans agree, because they have completely turned on the idea of the show continuing without him.
I don’t understand why future stories couldn’t have revolved around the mystery of Logan’s disappearance for most of a season while on a military mission that Veronica has to break some rules to solve or the Fitzpatricks Irish mob returns to disrupt their happy married life with the end of season three coming back to haunt Logan.
Or even make the evolution of Logan’s character now that he had his life together be to regress and become a criminal maybe in order to save Veronica or her dad but he gets caught and has to go to jail stuck inside with all Veronica’s old enemies. He’s always been a dark haunted character, why not bring that edge back? Or use a combination of these things. Anything. Anything but what we got.
All in all, Rob Thomas saying that Logan needed to go so Veronica Mars could turn into an adult noir is bs. There were plenty of creative stories left to tell, this was just a terrible choice and effectively put a premature permanent end to the series.
Well done, smh 🤦♂️
LOgan + VEronica = LOVE forever!
The way Rob wrote Logan this season was so weird. I get that he's Logan reborn but he didn't even feel like Logan. You could tell Jason was desperately trying to make it work with adding in some of his Logan mannerisms but it felt so unnatural. You can tell Rob truly had no idea what to do with the character and that's really why he killed him.
I disagree. He felt exactly like a reformed Logan would be. How would you expect him to act?
I had this initial response that they made Logan into a bit of a cyborg, but after watching several times, I actually loved it. Because Logan became the most stable mature balanced person on the show. All while still being sexy and appealing. Piz was stable and mature, but a total bore. Logan was able to be everything and grew into a true man. I think Rob set the tone to be able to have a Veronica and Logan crime fighting duo strong relationship with a working formula and then decided to just take a giant ice machine dump all over it.
the 'sorry' text
the therapist voicemail
nobody no death
clues... for another episode
I think that they should’ve did a spin-off of Veronica Mars and let Veronica and Duncan Kane get back together they were each others first loves.
I’m glad Clyde won& Weevil they remind me of breaking bad
WHO BACKED THIS. Seriously. This show became what it was largely due t the love of their characters. Rob, undo this
I hate that they killed Logan.
I will pretend that the ending was either the movie ending or wedding scene
Could he rewrite this ending and make her be dreaming?
I think it's all a plan, Logan has a secretive job and they used this to fake his death. You don't see him actually die🤷♀️ a dream might come off a bit corny...
Make it all a dream
@@someonetn7813 I'd be ok with that.
@@kim2823 I like this idea, it’s more than possible
The hackiest, laziest writing I've ever seen. I adored VM up to this point.
Por lo que leí en la temporada 5 no va a aparecer Logan ,el productor dijo que para salvar la serie tenia que cambiar la temática,si seguía siendo una historia de romance se iba a terminar. No estoy de acuerdo ,para que las series rindan los personajes principales tienen que ser unos desgraciados en su vida personal? Si querían que el personaje de Verónica se ocupara mas en el de detective podrían mandar a Logan a embarcarse en la marina o a trabajar en otro lado y que apareciera menos en la serie pero no matarlo ,eso me disgusto mucho , siempre me gusto mucho esta pareja y espere mucho tiempo para que se quedaran juntos, me enoja que los productores hagan estas cosas con los personajes,
you've GOT to be kidding me.
He wanted to make it even more sad with that recording man I HATE this!!! But it is still a great scene BUT I wish Logan was not dead :(
I loved this season. I don't agree with killing Logan but i see what Rob was trying to do. Setting up something new by literally blowing up something old they people love is a gamble and we lost.
I hate that therapist so much why didn't she give her the voicemail sooner!!!
This episode killed me!
Yeah so Rob said in an interview he wants to watch this series with his daughter. He’s about to get chewed out by her for this ending.
There’s definitely some wiggle room available here… could write Logan as being in a coma and the dialogue would still fit. But it’s not like anyone is asking for more of the show anymore. He killed the fandom.
This therapist is creepy
I understand the anger of the fans, the reason why I love Veronica Mars so much is because she endured a lot without giving up. We all wanted her happy ending but I guess not every ending can be a happy ending.
I know I’m late to this but I recently binged this show. Wtf crap ending is that? I mean I didn’t even care that much that Veronica ends up with Logan but killing him off was a shit decision. He was an interesting character even without VM. He could have had his own adventures or even be a re occurring character. All that growth for nothing.
NOPE! Never gonna get over it. #loganveronica
Here’s the thing- we ALL agree that Veronica and Logan living happily ever after is the perfect ending. Rob’s point is that that would be the end. I don’t like it, but we likely wouldn’t be asking for more if those last minutes didn’t happen. It is a large bet hinging on the hope that there will be future seasons. There should have been another way to create discord/unfinished business. However, the tragedy is spurring Veronica to do more with her life. She isn’t meant to stay in Neptune. I think they will go the FBI which they originally pitched before the show was cancelled after season 3
But it probably should have been the end. The cancelation of the show left it so unfinished but all this story needed was an ending. Season 4 was needed but it also should have been the end. Veronica Mars is an amazing show but you can't keep milking it until it dries. I know it hurts but shows need to end when the storyline still makes since. When you keep trying to stretch storylines out you end up having to take out their cores just to make them interesting. Just like now how they killed Logan. To many shows are ruined because the creators and fans are to attached to them to say goodbye.
It’s just ignorant because his original pitch with the FBI idea was shut down and he played the fans just so he could once again try the idea no one wanted. We want LOGAN! Also, they made Veronica unbearable in this season.. I hated that.
@@peyton4895 I agree. The issue that I see is that season 1 got a mass following. People loved the characters and the developing relationship between Logan and Veronica. It all worked and people loved the show. Season 2 was fine but then it got worse as they went along and ended up cancelled.
This show should have been 6-7 seasons and that is it. Rob could have done two years in high school and 4 years at college and then that would be the end of Veronica Mars. Instead it was cancelled and a movie was done in the middle and then season 4 15 years later from the time it started. To me, it was like seeing my child all grown up but I missed his entire childhood. I even hated the mystery on season 4 with the obnoxious Patton Oswalt. He was so irritating. They took a likable character who use to be compassionate and sweet and turned her into someone I didn't even recognize.
@@peyton4895 I agree. It should have been 6-7 seasons max and ran all the way through without a break. They ruined it when it was cancelled and then came back years later. It felt like having a child that was all grown up but I missed the most important part which was his childhood.
Rob made a great two seasons and then it went downhill. The huge break ruined the rhythm that the show had going. Yes, life doesn't end many times as a happy ever after but in this particular case it should have because we have enough sad things happen in life and just once wanted that fairy tale ending.
No, people don't have to grow at the same pace but Logan had it a LOT worse than Veronica. He had zero stable adults in his life and very little love (if any) but Veronica had at least one stable figure. Yet she completely changed from her teen character. She acted as if she was devoid of all compassion and was horrible in the way she treated Logan and her other friends.
I think a season 5, if they should have one, will fail. The reason is that the relationships, the romances and the various characters are what drew people to the show. You can't just leave that all behind and go forward with a completely different show.
B1959 especially sense one of the most charming things about this show is that Veronica is going all this badass stuff as a teenager while also going through school. Now that she’s older she’s just doing her job. It’s now just another criminal show.
Such a sad ending! I am pissed! Why did you kill Logan and make Veronica miserable???
As a writer, l understand why they had to kill off Logan, he was holding her to her old life to high school.
As a fan my soft little marshmallow heart is broken!
I don't understand how Logan was holding her back? He left to the army or navy she could of done whatever she wanted during the mean time. She didn't have to marry him, could have let him go during the movie also. They could of easily just left him with someone else, besides killing him off. Not fair
If there ever be a new Veronica Mars season I'm
definitely not watching it without Logan..
Worst decision in tv history to (apparently) kill him, he was the character with the most growth of anyone!! He was amazing!! They need to bring him BACK, I don't care how, there is always a way!! They could have killed anyone else and we the fans wouldn't have been as angry as this!!
I am denying the ending...😢
It was too much. She deserved to be happy in the end
noooooooooooo😭😭😭😭😭
i feel the same..when my husband dies😭😭😭
WTH, I'm pissed why did you have to kill Logan the hell those 2 have been through at least coulda let Veronica be pregnant
Please tell me this a Dream..
Ehm.... no.
Not watching this new season.
“Blows that would destroy most people...” is this a hint that he’s not dead?
this is genius - okay so now i legit have hope that he had to be extracted or something with the navy and he had to pretend he's dead. thats what i'm going to believe from now on.... yup exactly that :D
Audrey Bloomfield Haha dude its the only thing keeping my head above the water. But I tried explaining it to my brother (who hasn’t seen the show) and he didn’t think it was strong evidence. That being said, Rob Thomas is known to bring people back from the dead
@@molliemcmullan9187 fingers crossed!! i wouldn't be surprised if it did happen knowing the show... i really hope it does, they deserve a happy ending :')
Why did they have to kill him off? I loved him.
I never watched this show but I web surf and read stuff but I somehow came across this. Rob Thomas is an idiot and his defiant "I won't bring him back" reinforces this. Seeing that Season 5 is now in limbo and Rob's stunt backfired, he can still bring Logan back.
--
Another thing; Movie and show writers lie all the time. They'll do anything to preserve spoilers. Remember the controversy over Capt. America being a secret HYDRA agent in the comics? It turned out to be some weird story involving impostors and alternate universes and not the real Cap. You wouldn't have known it if you listened to the guy who wrote that story at the time when fans got outraged.
--
So; Seeing that his attempt to "save" this show actually killed it and everyone's outrage... it's possible Thomas will bring back Logan as a cool unspoilered surprise twist. He was thrown from the car when it blew up and he's in hiding due to some top secret cloak & dagger espionage stuff.
--
Also; Veronica can still do her thing with Logan by her side. Rob Thomas needs to know this as well as the concept of "Battle Couples". Veronica & Logan solving mysteries together!
--
And if Rob's too stupid to rectify this. Just take the last episode, edit out the last bit and the whole thing ends with Veronica & Logan getting married... perhaps with a cool pre-credits "After The Story" text stating that the two became a team...
... then write a bunch of great fan-fiction of these two and their continuing adventures.
--
Remember; You don't have to accept the ending they give you. It's all fiction so there's no real difference between canon & non-canon in the big cosmic scheme of things.
--
Logan survived the bomb, period!
--
Likewise; Colonel Blake got home safely, Newt returned to Earth, Derek & Danny Vinyard turn away from Neo-Nazism and both live long happy lives, Joanna outsmarts the Men's Association, etc. If a grim ending makes you barf... you don't have to accept it. With fan fiction and / or video fan edits you can do anything!
--
Since there's likely not going to be a Season 5 with Veronica Mars, it's up to fans to come up with their own. START TYPING!
I have said the same thing about the “battle couples”. They literally laid the groundwork for the perfect crime solving duo. Especially with Logan’s amazing Navy training. Fighting and languages. And then took a dump on it all. It’s mind boggling.
@@steffnic13 The fact that people petitioned to have this resurrected only for the guy creating it literally slapping fans in the face is pure betrayal. It's as much their show as it is his.
-
I also hate the "Whedon-esque, "My characters should never have lasting happiness" trope. What's the point in watching the show and getting into the characters if it's all futile?
I have a feeling that the ending with Veronica leaving Neptune also opens for Logan to be rescurrected. It could be that there's a look-alike of him in another city. I hope atleast.
I wonder who she is gonna end up with now that logan is gone
They try to get her end up with Leo
She’ll probably be a lonely bitter bitch, that’s what Rob Thomas wants. He wants her to be lonely, bitter, broken and free to have sex with every man she encounters. He basically said that multiple times.
This was a great ending. It makes perfect sense. Veronica is like a batman. A wolverine. Happiness is not meant for them. Only tragedy.
Her leaving neptune which was no longer neptune was perfect.
It also does not make sense that someone who took a psych degree would be so anti-therapy and anti-Logan bcming a better version of himself. Why’d you have to blow up an all round hot guy, Rob?
You cant bloody kill Logan!! Are u kidding me ! I hate this !
Why did they kill of Logan? I don't understand? Why? Why have them get married and then just kill him? That's so dumb. You can't kill off one of America's sweethearts? They were finally happy!! D:<
update: I've read through the articles of why the creator Rob Thomas said that Logan needed to die because Veronica couldn't have a boyfriend waiting at home for her so she could be a true detective. As a creator myself, I don't agree with this. Logan was her ROCK. Her one person she could go home to. Her EPIC soulmate. You can't just take him away for some emotional drive for Veronica. You just can't. In my mind, Logan and Veronica will be together. Logan doesn't die. Logan and Veronica work together to raise a family, even with all of the detective drama. You can still have that. Take Bones for example with Brennan and Booth. They made it work. Why couldn't you? *rant over*
So, what is her last name??
Bring back Ducan
Yeah. thanks. I hate it :))))
I just finished this season and I really have enjoyed it. Talking about Logan´s death, I have to say I don´t understand why are so many people angry at writers. Was I sad that Logan was killed ? Yes, I even cried a little. Am I mad at writers ? No, because life isn´t always a fairytale. And I am glad that Veronica Mars series isn´t full of "Hollywood happy endings", it just makes it a little more believable. You got happy ending with Keith, he could have died defusing the bomb and he didn´t. He was also supposed to be deadly ill, but in the end he wasn´t and is healthy. That´s one happy ending here. Veronica marries Logan and they live happy life, well that not happened. I wish they had a happy ending. But this is life and life isn´t always fair.
STOP
RUINED THE WHOLE SERIES FOR ME!
I'm done with this show
Kristen Bell Most Beautiful Very Hotter 💙💛 🎥
Głupi koniec. 😡😠
plakalam,kurde
I never watched and was thinking about it but what a garbage ending to give the fans
4 snz and a movie.. Don't tease me.. You can do better than this. VM.
eh Kristen Bell is getting a theme of having garbage series endings... just like the train wreck that the good place ending was... glad I stopped with season 3... I'll write my own story in my head for the characters thanks lol
How was the good places ending bad? I think they did it perfect.
never liked V and Logan so not a problem for me i always find their relationship really f up Logan is the ex boyfriend of her dead best friend also the son of the guy who killed Lili ans try to kill her and her dad even if Logan have nothing to do with it still weird
clearly one of her bully at the beginning
a really toxic relationship breaking up getting back together breaking up again.. he slept with the girl who give her the drug glass who lead her to be raped .. idk it's just fuc**** up to me