CentOS is Dead
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- Опубликовано: 8 сен 2024
- Red Hat just killed CentOS and brought its end-of-life forward by 8 years, from 2029 to 2021.
One of the most stable and popular Linux distributions in the world has just been unexpectedly ended, leaving its users stranded. CentOS Stream still exists, but it doesn't provide the same stability that CentOS users demand.
In this video we explore what happened, and what the options are for people who now find themselves having to replace CentOS at short notice. Will Red Hat help its community? Could a newcomer called Rocky Linux save the day?
The situation is still evolving at the time of recording, so check out the links below for the latest information.
📽 Video explaining where CentOS Stream fits in more detail
• Why CentOS Stream is I...
Video explaining the relationship between Red Hat, CentOS, and Fedora:
📽 • Red Hat, CentOS & Fedo...
CentOS Announcement:
📢 blog.centos.or...
CentOS FAQ:
❓ centos.org/dis...
Red Hat Announcement:
📢 www.redhat.com...
Red Hat FAQ:
❓ www.redhat.com...
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Follow-up video with replacement options: ruclips.net/video/Iwafps4PnPI/видео.html
a statement from Cern: "CERN acknowledges the recent decision to shift focus from CentOS Linux to CentOS Stream, and the sudden change of the end of life of the CentOS 8 release. This may entail significant consequences for the worldwide particle physics community. We are currently investigating together with Fermilab the best path forward. We will keep you informed about any developments in this area during Q1 2021."
So lets see what they are coming up with and then follow the particle stream.
Really interested to see if they throw their support behind something like Rocky, or whether Scientific Linux makes a comeback.
CERN should read the original blog posts then and not obtain their information from 3rd party "news" sites.
It's not "CentOS Stream"(a rolling release distro) as reported in this video and 3rd party "news" sites but it will be "CentOS Stream 8", "CentOS Stream 9" - versions with long term support which have the disadvantage that the patches land in it before these go into RedHat.
RedHat will be more stable than CentOS but not much else changes for users.
"RedHat will be more stable than CentOS [Stream]" is exactly the point, though. The stability is why many people chose CentOS and why Stream is not a drop-in replacement.
@@ProTechShow RedHat will be more stable than current RedHat due to CentOS users but their focus in "CentOS Stream X" is still on stability. This should not be misinterpreted as CentOS being unstable - the patches that were going into RedHat will now just come sooner into CentOS(they switch RedHat CI to be CentOS Stream CI), it has the same risk of breaking CentOS Stream as it had of breaking current RedHat.
I wouldn't say the risk is the same at all. It gets released with less testing therefore the risk is greater. Stream users will get fixes quicker, bugs quicker, and bugs that simply won't make it into RHEL or CentOS because they're found in Stream.
That's not really the point, though. The entire point of CentOS is that it inherits RHEL's final release stability and Stream doesn't do that. Whether Stream is still a pretty stable distro in relative terms is irrelevant - it's no longer providing what many are currently using CentOS for. Hence why alternatives like Rocky and Lenix are starting to appear.
This has the stench of IBM incompetence all over it.
"If this affects you, what can you do?", and then the video immediately goes to an ad, with trebuchets being fired as a dozen guys charge with axes while buildings burn in the background.
Uh... that might be a bit of an overreaction...
🤣 Brilliant! I'd love to claim I planned it that way. All I can say is RUclips's algorithm must run on CentOS!
Support for CentOS 7 hasn't been axed and will continue until 30/06/2024, so if you're on 7... don't upgrade to 8.
Is there a way to downgade?
Not that I know of... maybe someone will jump in if they know differently, but the safest method is going to be a reinstall I'm afraid.
What about Scientific Linux, the CERN's RHEL clone?
Couldn't CentOS admins shift to SL?
@@mafiadoner3619 if it works for you, go for it. In my experience (which is more business-focused) the biggest thing holding BSD back is lack of vendor support. Off the top of my head I can't think of any 3rd party business system I've installed that listed BSD as a supported option. That's not to say it couldn't be made to work, but if a business is paying a lot of money for support they are going to stick to the rules to avoid compromising it.
In the consumer space I think it's more the case that most people just haven't heard of it. Most people use Windows but have heard of Linux, so if they try something different that's where they go. It's amazing how many people use pfSense and think it's Linux!
@@othernicksweretaken they discontinued Scientific Linux last year in favour of CentOS. D'oh! 🤦♂️
What did everyone expect from IBM.
SPSS become open source
@Michael-McDonald:
They sold their frigging-awesome IBM-Thinkpad line,
So I am not surprised.
I totally saw this coming when I heard that IBM bought out Redhat. Thanks IBM. The only reason that redhat got on the board of centos was to kill it. Companies like the one I was at were jumping ship from redhat to centos to save money. So IBM/Redhat did this on purpose. They got people to upgrade to centos 8 with promises of support. They want people to move back to Redhat from centos. Now companies have to choose to eat the cost of using Redhat or go through an extensive upgrade process. Mark my words, in the next few years once enough companies have moved to Redhat they will raise license and support prices. It's the IBM way. The companies that eat the cost to move away from Redhat will save money in the long haul.
Now is the time to switch to Debian! Let see what RHEL will do without all the people using/testing CentOS
is debian better than ubuntu for VPS web site hosting and why?
OpenSuSe is a more logical option. It's RPM based + 100% Enterprise grade, with long term support rom SUSE. I bet this was an IBM decision.
Ex IBM/RedHat contractor here. This was IBMs doing. I heard a lot of details regarding this on one of my previous project deliverables with the company. My source comes from the board but I'm locked to an NDA regarding my particular project. This was a case of 'force of hand' to pull as much business from CentOS to RedHat subscriptions as possible. Yes they will lose following and some will go to Oracle or Rocky after EoL but even with a as low as a 10% increase of subscriptions on that scale is a gigantic amount of capital growth and you can imagine that I'm shooting low with projected percentage. If OP wants more information they can contact me if they please and I can provide some minimal documentation to back up my words with redacted job number and personal details.
Hey, thanks for the offer. Whilst it certainly piques my curiosity I don't want to risk you getting in trouble over it. I think most people have come to a similar conclusion on this one anyway...
Any open distro can go pfft at any time, but the way CentOS did is particularly annoying, I think.
Yep. We literally had plans of upgrading our HPC to CentOS 8 in a week, and that looks like it’s not much of an option anymore. Planning for the next 8 years absolutely destroyed.
By incorporating it into the stream of Fedora to RHEL insuring it will be around for years to come? Yeah what an awful thing...
I think it's because the way it happened, as discussed in the video a major company made a commitment then backed out leaving you with a choice (1) sub-optimal stability or (2) pay up for support. Lord help me, I'm considering Oracle Linux for my environment.
@@FlexibleToast Fedora was the test bed, CentOS was the stable version you would use in development. This was the way. And RHEL had made a commitment to keep 8 around for 10 years. If you want your code to run on the same binaries now in test/prod you have to buy support.
It was amazingly ballsy of companies to make/execute plans around CentOS after the acquisition. A new owner is a murderer loose in the building, no department is safe.
🎯
Support Rocky Linux, don't go to dark side. Forget about Oracle(Linux), they like lawsuit more than engineering.
Lawsuits, eh? * Checks if it's possible to delete flames animation *
Yep. They like to “give” things for free for a little bit. Then nail you later.
It's the only TRUE community-based future plan to succeed CentOS. Another option is Lenix, but I'm saying NO to company-sponsored initiatives, and so should everyone else...
Mageia or Rosa linux.
@@mafiadoner3619 BSD Never lets us down.
I used to use CentOS but switched to Debian years ago. It sounds like I made a good decision.
Yup debian is great, and ubuntu also good topping
@@KangJangkrikafter years of Ubuntu I would really love a better alternative I'm not so patient anymore with all his imperfections.. getting old..
@@asganaway for production, I think we should wait a bit longer untill it proven stable, let's say... LTS version.
@@KangJangkrik on Servers always an Ubuntu guy, for the good and the bad, worked with Oracle quite a lot also quite a bit of headache without paying for support, I was thinking mostly to my Dev desktop environment.
@@KangJangkrik Ubuntu is a disgusting heap of trash but it's easy to use
Love to have more Linux especially Rocky. Very excited about it.
thanks for information! Come on, Rocky linux!!!
For anyone living in the UK, amazingly, the new Tesco "card only" self-scan checkout update brings in CentOS Linux 7 over the previous Windows builds. And they run 10 times better than any of the old Windows-based builds.
Everyone, let's offer our prayers to CentOS and RedHat, especially Oracle
🙏😆
Let's not. Lol
Nice one! The Oracle/Red Hat union really was a pain in the ass.
Open source will be alive as long as there is a community behind.
Exactly!!!!! If they want to kill it the community will take care of it and i hope there gonna be upgrade from CentOS 8 to CentOS2 9 this time with support of community or straight upgrade to Rocky
Another example of a short-sighted selfish corporate decision. Fork!!
true
Oracle linux is surprisingly good... including their kernel. Only practical downside is the lack of in-place upgrade to future OL version. But since that happens once every decade... not a big deal
This impacts my job a LOT. All I know for certain so far is that cpanel has announced that they won't support centos-stream, they are going to support cloudlinux's new distro that's coming at some point next year in light of the centos situation (and they are excellerating their plans to add ubuntu support).
The CloudLinux (Lenix) one looks promising. I'll be keeping an eye on it!
Ubuntu, rock solid since 2004.
- 5 years of maintenance for LTS (Long Time Support) releases;
- 2 years release cycle for LTS releases;
- optional: automated upgrade to a new Ubuntu LTS release;
- optional: automated upgrades to 3 new kernels starting after ~10 months for 2 years;
- extended security maintenance for an additional 5 years; free for up to 3 PCs for individuals.
- 3 half-yearly releases in between LTS releases with a 9 month maintenance support.
Those half-yearly releases I use(d) to get support for new hardware or for the new OpenZFS 2.0 file system.
@@mafiadoner3619 I use freeBSD, but given its 43 age only for ancient 32-bits PCs, like a Pentium 4.
A year later and still running 8-stream. Running smooth as ever. No problems at all. Now updating and testing CentOS 9 Stream. Looks awesome. So maybe it is not so bad at all?
I started learning Linux with Red Hat Linux 7.2 (back in 2002), after trying to learn with 6.8 (found out years later the installer never worked). Eventually I moved to Fedora, but it was to bleeding edge for a lot of the dev work I was trying to do, and moved to CentOS for my home test server. I moved from CentOS to Ubuntu about 2 years ago when I started working with Docker (when I moved, Centos support for Docker sucked - don't know if it's gotten any better).
First off, I didn't know this channel before, found it in the recommendations. Brilliant, spot-on content, very nice presentation. Congratulations, sir!
On topic: Red Hat and other enterprise-grade, company-owned Linux distributions basically target companies, corporations, and data centers. A regular user like me would likely not be affected by the end of CentOS. However, it's certainly a loss for all those using and relying on the project. The CentOS-based Scientific Linux has also been taken down before.
For these questionable business decisions, I generally don't recommend company-owned distributions. The question is though, who would run, let's say a data center based off Arch or Gentoo? Can't comment on this, as I am not an administrator.
Seems like IBM is the driving force here. Likely, SUSE would be an alternative to those having to rely on a paid support plan. Likewise, OpenSUSE is unlikely to disappear, as of now.
Instantly starting a fork of a ditched project? I don't know, really. It is this a significant malaise surrounding the Linux ecosystem, unfortunately.
Thanks! Glad you enjoyed it. 🙂
I've not come across a datacentre running Arch... and to be honest I don't really expect to! Anyone I've come across who uses Arch does it for the tinkering. Datacentres like long-term stability and minimal unnecessary changes. Red Hat, SUSE, and Ubuntu seem to be the main ones I come across (disregarding AWS or Oracle workloads). No doubt someone will jump on and say they've been doing it for years, but I suspect an Arch-based datacentre would drive me mad!
@@ProTechShow Certainly! I don't think I would even trust a data center run with Arch. However, it's these business practices that make me recommend community-based distributions over corporate ones.
I used to respect Red Hat a lot, since as you said, they give back a lot to the community and Linux itself. With the acquisition by IBM, however, things might look less promising in the future. CentOS was an important distribution, and disrupted trust is almost impossible to repair.
I would hope that users might switch to SUSE rather than going from CentOS to Red Hat, or worse, Oracle.
@@marioschroers7318 I suspect folks would move to Debian or Ubuntu rather than to SUSE. Personally I've found SUSE's package management and firewall management tools to be really difficult to use, and colleagues have mentioned similar headaches. But that was five years ago, and I'll cheerfully re-investigate SUSE: all that matters here is having a stable, easy-to-use distribution with good community support, lightning-fast bugfixes, and organizational transparency.
P.S. A graphical desktop must not be forced upon me.
No way, opensuse will probably not be used since they don't have a lts support. They rolling release, which isn't enterprise friendly like centos was.
Don't need my home lab sitting on a short fuse. I've shifted back to Debian for now. Waiting to see how well Rocky Linux evolves.
Joining you. Fortunately I'm not a big datacentre... just 9 Dell M1000Es and several assorted IBM boxes, but it's enough of a hassle that my biggest consideration isn't how difficult the transition will be ... but how final it will be. Debian has a large wide base, and the benefits of that are clearer than ever.
Debian it's with us...💪
Is Debian better than Ubuntu?
@@richardhaddadau well ubuntu is based on debian. It's not better but there are key differences and I guess it depends on usecase and preference.
@@stevenspring9889 thanks for your answer. I appreciate it. I've used ubuntu but never debian
It's not Debian anymore. Just Ian.
This is significant, yet I am not bothered. I have been using Centos for about 15 years, Red Hat before that. I was concerned when Red Hat bought Centos but nothing changed. Now that Centos is over I am very disappointed. But I have been in the computer business since before the advent of the IBM PC and have seen much worse. Times have changed and a company just can't take over a Linux company and control it like software in the past. The Linux license means many organizations can just copy the Red Hat code and redistribute it just like Centos. It will take impressive marketing and loads of lawyers to scare people out of doing that. Maybe IBM can just buy everyone who tries.
But after using Centos and Red hat for over 20 years I was setting up a free instance on AWS and that required I use Ubuntu. So I had to learn to apt-get instead of yum and a few other things that were different. Other than that they were the same. I didn't even have to recompile my executable programs, they were binary compatible. I recently upgraded an old server that was still running Centos 5.3. To me that indicates that a Centos 7 server installed today will have a good replacement solution by the time I feel like upgrading.
If you havent seen it (and maybe you could do a follow up) there is a community taking over centos development as a branch called almalinux (backed by cloudlinux in a big way).
In theory it should be a fairly straight forward swap.
Yeah, there are a few comments in here about Lenix. They changed the name to Alma, but it's the same project. There are some alternative distros popping up and a few big players left to show their hand (CERN/Fermilab are due to make an announcement soon, and Red Hat are starting to bring out new low/no-cost programmes to try and placate CentOS users). I'll likely do a follow-up in a couple of months when the dust has started to settle. Right now it seems like it's changing on a daily basis!
Holy shit, I've just upgraded my servers to CentOS 8!
F
F
Thank you for letting us to know. It is what it is.
Interesting. Cisco IOS-XE runs CentOS containers I wonder what they will do about this in the future.
I would suggest that the community seriously consider FreeBSD. Very much open source with focus on maintaining quality. Packages kernel drivers, development tools included and maintained as a single operating system
One problem with FreeBSD is it doesn't have GPL. Apple took FreeBSD and used it as part of building OS X. They didn't have to give anything back which includes their changes to the source code. I am not a FreeBSD hater, I just see Linux has way more support and momentum which the GPL is a part of creating. Even FreeNAS is "moving" towards Scale and the "owner" is the FreeBSD guy that Jobs hired at Apple to help mash FreeBSD and Next to create OS X. If FreeBSD can't provide a BeeHive VM environment usable enough to not need FreeNAS Scale then I am guessing there isn't enough development effort to create the kind of progress *BSD will need to compete. Rock stable is one thing but rock stable with changes to the code to create new features is another. Linux is the fastest and largest software project ever the last time I checked. I am pretty sure BSD isn't close to that kind of development.
The company I work for is now switching from CentOS 8 to FreeBSD for new projects and Rocky Linux later on for our legacy projects. We are talking about hundreds of webservers with really big (sometimes custom built) e-commerce applications running on them.
We find that FreeBSD is a lot better in terms of top-to-bottom integration, the license allows us and our customers to modify it yet not reveal their company secrets without spending twice the original development time to obfuscate it enough. FreeBSD might not always benefit like GNU/Linux from the forced source change sharing or the extensive driver support, but damn if it doesn’t have its upsides. We find that as these changes happen, they get open sourced anyway down the line. It’s just a delayed effect.
TL;DR FreeBSD is arguably the best enterprise Unix-like server for some if not most applications.
Sounds like a good fit. Do you find it any more difficult to find admins with BSD experience? I appreciate a lot is transferable, but there was another fella commenting that moving from CentOS to Ubuntu made recruitment a lot easier, so I'm wondering if a BSD estate makes it any more difficult to find people?
Definitely is harder to find people but if we find someone they’re typically a bit older, and have been using BSD’s since early 2000’s if not earlier. The experience level is a lot higher.
One funny thing I noticed is that Linux sysadmins usually find roughly the same solution but our FreeBSD sysadmins can find several different solutions to a problem. Versatility is definitely a feature.
I wonder why that is...? Maybe because there is less BSD content on the internet they've had to experiment a bit more for themselves... interesting observation anyway!
Some years back I did some work at local hospital on a computerized med dispenser, the OS was CentOS.
I know alot of programs, especially in the security world that are built on a Centos core. I have a feeling alot of companies will go with either passing along the cost of a RedHat license to the customer, or will swap to ubuntu or protonOS
Excellent video. For other reasons, we just moved all of our servers to AWS, and the web servers which were running on Centos are now running on Red Hat.
Thanks!
I hope that FreeBSD will benefit from that decision! Fingers crossed.
The company I work for is now switching from CentOS 8 to FreeBSD for new projects and Rocky Linux later on for our legacy projects. We are talking about hundreds of webservers with really big (sometimes custom built) e-commerce applications running on them.
We find that FreeBSD is a lot better in terms of top-to-bottom integration, the license allows us and our customers to modify it yet not reveal their company secrets without spending twice the original development time to obfuscate it enough. FreeBSD might not always benefit like GNU/Linux from the forced source change sharing or the extensive driver support, but damn if it doesn’t have its upsides. We find that as these changes happen, they get open sourced anyway down the line. It’s just a delayed effect.
TL;DR FreeBSD is arguably the best enterprise Unix-like server for some if not most applications.
Best explanation I've ever heard. Outstanding content.
Cheers!
I was tempted to go to CentOS. Thankfully I stayed with Fedora. Even my rescues and builds going into business environments went with Fedora.
Considering ibm never made warp/os2 open source. I suspect ibm is behind this intentionally. Don’t be surprise in the future if Microsoft follow the same formula with maybe Ubuntu.
First scientific linux....and then this!...oh gosh!
Yeah... I think they stopped that one in favour of CentOS, didn't they? They must be a tad annoyed about this!
Centos stream is 5 years life span. Centos stream is rhel/centos stable, it's just a dot release, centos stream 8 means centos 8.x (where x is the dot release). That is it's not stick on the number after the dot. Centos 8.1 won't be 8.2 by an daily update unlike stream which does not have dot release fixed. But keep in mind dot releases are guaranteed to be compatible.
If you don't want moving dot release then rocky linux is what you need otherwise stream is for you.
time to get familiar with apt-get ;-)
is it better to use debian or ubuntu? I wanna use VPS for web hosting simple personal web site and have no experience with linux yet.
@@adrianakuzmikova1697 debian for servers, since it is more stable, secure and mature. but ubuntu for desktop since it has more whistles and bells.
@@joedoe3688 if I learn commands for terminal from ubuntu tutorials will those commands be the same for debian or are there some major differences? is it possible to use DirectAdmin CP without any terminal commands knowledge to manage VPS web server?
@@adrianakuzmikova1697 Ubuntu and Debian syntax are almost the same. Main difference: Ubuntu almost always uses "sudo" while in Debian you are root and do not need "sudo", tutorials for debian and ubuntu can be interchangable, BUT there are different dependencies in their respective repositories, so it is NOT identical.
You should not use a VPS without any knowledge of the underlying terminal commands. Dangerous half knowledge leads almost always to catastrophy on the internet. It is a shark basin and you are the gold fish there, your VPS will be open for hackers of all kinds if you do not know, what you are doing (independent of operating system).
@@joedoe3688 but what else can I do? I wanna have personal web site and from what I read shared hosting is slow and unreliable and more prone to be attacked by hackers so I wanna go with VPS web hosting. I wanna use directadmin control panel to manage VPS. do you have some quick security tips for VPS web hosting for me?
I am starter for Linux, I will learn docker or many CI / CD technology, Would you suggest I should choose centOS or ubuntu with my condition?
what did you choose, i'm also learning docker and just started getting into linux
For those whom commited the mistake of upgrade to centos 8: don't worry, we have time enough to wait for rocky linux, our hope!
I deployed a new system on CentOS 8 an hour before the announcement. 🤦♂️
Could be worse. Most of the Linux I deal with professionally is RHEL rather than CentOS. I really feel for people who are running large CentOS infrastructures right now.
@@ProTechShow I think that is the issue here people have started to ditch Red Hat for it costing Red Hat subs. Being professional your should be using Red Hat anyway. Only use Cent of cheap project you don't need support or guarantee of up time. Because Red Hat are out to make money after all. More ethically but still the have a budget to make.
@@DJgregBrown I understand the motivation but it's not fair to say CentOS wasn't for professional use. The likes of CERN and Facebook were running it, and it was at one point the most widely used distro for web servers, to give an example of the scale of its use. There's definitely a case for going Red Hat where it's mission-critical, or where you want the support to fall back on. In most business scenarios I would recommend it myself. If you have sufficient in-house skills, though; there may not be a lot of value in paying for 3rd party support on everything if you've already invested in those skills.
First IBM tried to make PC’s proprietary. Now they don’t play in that space. Now they try to make Linux proprietary, in a year they won’t play there either.
we still on centos 7 this gives us a real chill,
i was testing fedora as containers base os but when centos stream came out it is perfect for my use case it is just rolling stable fedora, it pulls code from 9 months ago of the official fedora.
also, we still need stable os for database and storage, it wont hert to pay for redhat they have integrated cloud management powerd with a lot of diagnosing and AI tools, that will help a ton, so this new RedHat offering targeted mid-size companies like us and large organizations as well.
about rockylinux no comment, but I can say another distro joining an already crowded echo system.
When corporations buy random stuff and optimise their newly aquired sources of income.
#sliceline
We'll be fine, we do odd releases-- 3/5/7/9...but what CentOS was before RedHat bought it isn't actually that hard to do, though it does require money and a lot of time-consuming work. As long as the demand is there and the support flows in, Rocky will be just fine. I don't think you'll have to wait very long for a script to replace all of the centos logos, names, slogans, and repos with those from Rocky for a seamless transition.
As I recall it, when they renamed red hat linux fedora core linux, the idea provided was to create an upstream for testing broader community and extras packages along with the proposed RHEL base packages, though I think it was mainly done because they had two divergent bases that both weren't being served as well as they could be by Red Hat. That is very similar to what they're announcing again, except this time with the caveat they're trampling one of their base user groups to get there. CentOS was like the prep school computer system for RHEL, where growing organizations develop familiarity and even dependence on a system and when they reach a certain size convert at a very high rate into the paying model. I do think RedHat's reputation takes an Oracle-sized blow for this. While many are upset, it's with themselves for believing IBM wouldn't do it. Did the scorpion need a ride across the lake?
Hopefully the support for Rocky is there. It was, what... 4-5 months between RHEL 8 and CentOS 8? In some ways the Rocky team may already know what problems need to be solved thanks to the work on CentOS 8, but I would guess they also have a pile of governance to put in place as they're starting the project from scratch. It sounds like they're targeting Q1/Q2 in 2021.
I understand the feeling that the writing was on the wall when IBM bought Red Hat, but I don't think it's that clear cut. If corporate ownership was a sure sign that profits would kill community projects then you could have made the same argument when Red Hat took over CentOS. I think because Red Hat have been so supportive as the corporate owner in the past people were more inclined to believe things would stay that way. Sadly not...
@@ProTechShow Well there certainly was appropriate apprehension about the Redhat acquisition, but IBM is THE technology corporation studied more for its dress codes, power plays, and rigidity than for its enlightened marketing principles. My experience in the corporate world is the biggest danger is believing any promise you receive, because you regularly get bought and sold and the bosses are a carousel, so it doesn't really matter what they promise.
@@Doing_Time I wish I could disagree and say that's just cynical, but there's far too much truth in that statement.
Great video, Thanks for the info man, I use centos a lot but I find ubuntu bit more friendly, Well done 👏
Thanks 🙂
I Started with Debian around 97, bought a version SUSE. then Desktop RedHat shortly after that, them Fedora when it came out to replace desktop RH, finally switch to many forms of Ubuntu and never looked back, current is Pop OS 20.10 best of luck to the fellow linux users in the CentOS world.
But, but, but Ubuntu is for n00bz. HaXoRz use rolling releases and setup perfectly stable servers with them.
Ofcourse I'm kidding. I've started in early '00s and now landed in Ubuntu as well. I enjoy being schooled on how bad choice is Ubuntu for me by 1-2 years of experience Linux users.
I'm not a Linux admin so thiis is the first I'm hearing about this. I'm a data center technician that has worked with a number of large corporations and my linux experience is negligable. But what I can tell you is that every major corporation that I've worked for used CentOS as their sole Linux distro. They used it because they don't need support contracts with OS manufacturers. They have the admins that can take care of any issues they have. What they need is stability with software updates and CentOS gave that to them. One of the problems is that they all see their data centers as an expense and not a money maker. Because of this way of thinking they don't want to pay for things they don't need like a support contract unless it's necessary for them too like with hardware.
So these corporations are going to have to make a decision. Do they migrate to RedHat and the huge expenditure of money it's going to cost them because of the amount of Linux servers they're running (most of the machines are virtualized into more than just one server so they'll have to pay for each install), do they stick with a possibly less stable release of CentOS Stream or do they migrate to a completely new distro of Linux or stick with an unsupported OS that is no longer updated with all the risks that entails.
IBM may have just shot themselves in the foot though. If you've got IBM hardware running a free OS are you really going to want to effectivly pay them for an OS that used to be free as well? That's going to cost a lot of money. Who knows, we'll see what the future holds.
🎯
Oracle Linux is a 1:1 replacement. The only difference between Oracle and CentOS / rhel is Oracle mantains thier own yum repos.
I installed Oracle and all of my centos settings and service configs copied over with no changes needed.
Oracle Linux look really promising. Silent giant (Oracle)
Great video, just watching your red hat, fedora and centos video. Can you make a video about linux distros, what is rpm based distro and the other options. Why is ubuntu disliked in some geeky circles etc!
Thanks! The Ubuntu question... The main reason is that Canonical (the company behind Ubuntu) don't stick rigidly to open source. They include proprietary components as well. This might be a 3rd party driver to improve compatibility, or it might be their own for-profit tools. People who believe strongly in open source can find that offensive. The other reason that sometimes comes into play is that the Linux community can just be weirdly tribal in nature. Some people seem to think that only the distro they have personally installed is worth using, and using anything else makes you a terrible person. The first reason I can understand, the second... those people need help.
@@ProTechShow I'm trying to pivot from Windows and get Linux under my belt. Picking a distro to learn is over whelming! Used arch which was challenging but great fun
To many cooks spoil the broth! While Ubuntu has massive forums of useful help, I personally find as much bad help as good. Also Ubuntu seemed hard to keep customisation in Gnome Tweak harder to maintain as Ubuntu has it own theme they like others to use. Like with most snaps they disregard any theme settings you may have for ease of viewing etc. Secondly most apps run better if installed via software app but they was taking away native app and replacing native apps which kept your custom themes. Which was annoying to me because I like to keep my themes dark as to reduce screen glare. plus pushing AWS a lot. All in All I just didn't get on with Ubuntu any favour I tried most. I tried a couple of others even Debian which needed a lot of work to set up with drivers as they was proprietary AMD at the time now in the Kernel 👍. Manjaro was good arch but without the having to build everything but it was unstable probably because I didn't fully understand how to maintain it. Then OpenSUUSE good but slow and package manager hard to get head around. But I looked at Gentoo🤯 enough said! finally I tried Fedora 31 love strait to what you need basic not much but great desktop foundation to build a system on to do the Jobs it is for with countless apps out their, and true to the Open world ethos. Also forgot to say earlier I have less issue's on Wayland than Xorg and Ubuntu forces Xorg. I wanted the best free desktop and I have it. While Ubuntu was very hit and miss on a lot of outlooks.Canonical being only the start of problems. But every man to himself millions love Ubuntu so they must do something well(Cough Marketing!). 🤣
@@DJgregBrown thorough reply
@@ProTechShow let's not gloss over that point now. Some of those proprietary inclusions have been designated as actual malware by RMS himself, for what it's worth - case in point: Shopping lens, and then Shuttleworth's comment was simply that it can be uninstalled if the user doesn't like it lolz. Yah, a n00b, uninstalling something when they can barely get through a default install. Right ;)
I'm glad you mentioned Oracle, but only coz IBM could use a little salt in the wound.
I hope that helps :)
⛵
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1 minute of silence for CentOS
I loved CentOS so much. I feel so sad now
for some reason, I watch this. I don't even know what is centOS nor even use it.. what a life.
The algorithm works in mysterious ways...
@@ProTechShow for some reason i watch em till end. Great informational content.
Cheers!
I use Ubuntu for servers and Linux Mint, never touch Centos or even Fedora. Feels too different for me
Good thing I didn't update the servers yet. I was even joking with that centos 8 goes to the trashbin faster then centos 7. But anyway, at the end we are going to switch to Debian.
is debian better for VPS web hosting than ubuntu? I have no experience with linux or VPS and looking for OS for VPS.
@@adrianakuzmikova1697 Ubuntu is more like a good desktop OS. Debian and CentOS are both used as server OS. The reason is because while in Ubuntu you get the fresh packages with the package manager, debian and centos package managers provide outdated but stable pre-made packages with long term security update support. And it's more likely to have more security issues with fresh packages, then old ones that were tested/used for longer period of time. Which is good if you want to avoid of getting hacked. On the other hand if you want to use a new technology, then you wont be able to install it with a package manager, and you need to compile it - most likely - with all of it's dependencies from source. And then the dependencies of the dependencies too. And the dependencies of the dependencies of the dependencies too. And the dep... ect.
@@sin5946 if I will study tutorials for ubuntu are terminal commands for debian the same? I have found several tutorials for ubuntu, but very few for debian. I would like to use DirectAdmin CP, don't know if it is possible to manage VPS web hosting using only this panel. is it necessary to learn commands for terminal? I never had linux or VPS or any web hosting before.
@@adrianakuzmikova1697 Debian is the rock on which Ubuntu is built. Ubuntu builds on the Debian architecture, but there are some differences. I don't know what DirectAdmin CP is, but I assume it's a web based control panel. VPS always offer connection via SSH, which you can use with usr-pwd pair or ssh key - depends on the initial configuration your hosting provides, which you can reconfigure later and use it as you wish. The right protection of the access points are important, and you can configure the kex- server host key-, encrypion- mac algos. Some provide better protection, other are vulnerable to exploits.
If you want DirectAdmin you need to get an ssl, otherwise your login info will be stolen with man in the middle attack. And then direct admin will most likely run on 80 and 443 ports by default. If you want better protection you can configure the encryption protocols and ciphers. TLS 1.2, 1.3 are ok, others are outdated. To have SSL for a web interface that provides full access is critical. Having a control panel tho looks extra work to setup and protect, but maybe provide some help later? - I never had one.
"is it necessary to learn commands for terminal?"
Well... for what? If you want to use linux as a desktop OS, then no. For server... well it's like you learn it because you use them over and over again. Because you need/want to do something and you find description which tells you how to do it in the terminal. And it gives way more control then just clicking on icons. If you do something for the first time with commands it can be a pain in the ass if you don't have experience with it. But the more you use them the easier it is to get things done with it.
@@sin5946 can you recommend me some good book or tutorial for a beginner about server management? I just wanted to have a simple personal website, but more I am looking into it the more I realize its much harder than I thought it would be. in the beginning I thought I would just learn wordpress and make my website in a week, but now I see it will not be the case. this will take me months. I am using windows my whole life (win7 I liked a lot, win10 I hate the most) and I had no plans to learn linux. :D first time I tried linux was after I tried win10 and then I had to go back to win10, because I couldnt use the software I was used to. for people who wanna use win software there is no choice. :( is 1CPU and 2GB ram + 20GB HDD VPS enough for debian web hosting?
I just found out about this a week ago. I have a couple VMs that are Centos 7 so I suppose they will continue to exist.
I'm more just heavily annoyed that my brand loyalty has to find a new distro to cling to.
I used to be a SUSE user years ago until a things got weird there.
So I guess it's Debian after all.
Support Rocky Linux - rekindle the spirit.
Check out CloudLinux. They are going to be releasing a free 1:1 binary replacement of Centos in Q1. They have already been producing the #1 Linux Distros for the hosting industry for 11 years. Provide Centos 6 ELS until 2024 and have the best kernel and memory resident library live patching for years of uptime without reboots.
Project Lenix... thanks for the heads up. That looks interesting!
@@mafiadoner3619 I think you missed something. I stated CloudLinux had the best live patching. Which is KernelCare. Kernelcare+ live patches the Kernel and memory resident libs ( openssl and glibc) giving their customers the ability to run years without reboot...fully security compliant. They even patched ALL MDS issues without reboot.
We've been using Oracle Linux for years and its very stable.
This is IBM work....
As well as Rocky, I'll be looking at Cloudlinux's proposed CentOS replacement. TBH, moving off CentOS worries me a lot less than if IBM decided to stop supporting Ansible.
BTW, I'm a former Team OS/2 member from back in the 90s. So, I've already seen this movie.
Yup. I'll be keeping an eye on Lenix as well. 👍
Quite right - if IBM killed Ansible support, it would mess a lot of people up. So much so that someone may fork it, much as has been done with MariaDB and MySQL.
I've heard it explained a dozen times to no avail. I still don't understand the decision. Since I'm not a user of CentOS, I don't have an emotional attachment to the OS, but I can't spin this any way but as a mean spirited way of killing CentOS without having the courage to just say 'we're killing CentOS'. Their explanation is 'CentOS is the development branch of Red Hat'. And I respond, 'so it's Fedora now? What happens to Fedora?' And I can't get a coherent answer. I guess they have two development branches for no reason now?
And the way they announced it, as though it was good news.... Wow. Really a slap in the face. Don't allow corporations to control open source projects, I guess.
My video linked in the description might help explain it. CentOS was always downstream. CentOS Stream is the new upstream development one. A lot of people are confused as to how it relates to Fedora. It's easier to explain with a picture, but the short version is that Fedora is a playground that exists for exploring the latest and greatest tech. It has a much shorter lifespan than Red Hat and gets replaced frequently to keep it on the cutting edge. Most Fedora releases die out without ever making it to Red Hat, and exist only for the sake of playing with the latest packages. Every so often when it's time to make a new Red Hat they'll take whatever Fedora is around, fork it, and start developing it into Red Hat. The next time they do that will be for RHEL 9, and the development fork will be CentOS Stream 9. Fedora will continue down its own path in parallel. The latest current release of RHEL is 8.4, so that puts CentOS Stream 8 somewhere between RHEL 8.4 and the unreleased RHEL 8.5 today.
@@ProTechShow Basically they're saying that if you want RHEL, you'll have to either compile it yourself, buy support for it, or be content with CentOS Stream 9, which will be _mostly_ compatible, but perhaps not if you haven't kept up to date with your patches. I was really jazzed about CentOS 8, too, when it came out.
Almalinux is the best choice I found for servers. Don’t know about desktop use though
Theres no way i am gonna use RedHat after they pull the rug under CentOS like this. I've used CentOS for over a decade, now i had to switch my servers to Debian out of the blue.
hey there , i m still using "Centos 8" so what i suppose to do now .
One organization that will be hit hard by this is CERN. They've relied heavily on CentOS. They need that rock-solid reliability. Aside from CERN itself are the many particle physicists who also relied on CentOS.
It will be interesting to see if Scientific Linux makes a return.
CentOS was the Linux-based OS I devoted most of my time learning to use. That's money too, isn't it? This is a debacle.
Your skills are still valuable and will translate to other Linux distributions. The biggest difference between Debian and Red Hat variants is in their package management systems, along with some of the default software choices they make. If anything, your skills may appreciate in value if CentOS becomes a legacy product and skilled engineers become harder to find than they already are.
@@jorymil Thanks for your input. I've been fiddling with Debian right now. We must keep moving :/
I already left centos, after many many years, and moved to ubuntu. Pain in my heart ...
We were not crazy about CentOS 8. It's not as rock solid as 7 and now we see why. So we just started migrating to CentOS 7 from Ubuntu/Debian. We will stick closely with CentOS 7 for the next 4 years and look elsewhere in that time for the next jump.
IBM & Microsoft getting into the Linux boards started the end...
I still have CentOS 5 for DNS servers for several domains, still work great. Btw, IBM sucks!
Hmm... hopefully not high-traffic domains, then. CentOS 5 and 6 aren't receiving security patches, so your DNS servers are likely vulnerable to attack in some form or another. DNS servers are pretty easy to migrate to newer OSes; let me know if you want a hand sometime!
I'm using Fedora on laptops from now and Debian for server. Seems to work for me.. I'd use Debian everywhere but I've just had too many hardware issues with the laptops even after installing nonfree drivers.
I hope Kali never goes down this road. I feel like Offensive Security will make the move to make more money, but then there is always Parrot and BlackArch.
Thank you my friend I just subscribed to your Channel.
Thanks! 🙂
Never tried Fedora, CentOS or RedHat. Time to test CentOS before it's dead and lets see what happens to Rocky Linux.
Better say IBM killed centos
Whilst the timing is very interesting I have no proof either way, so I shall let people come to their own conclusions on that. 😉
@@ProTechShow i live in a place where free and open source are thriving.
They develop .
Exactly
IBM shit on everything they get hold of. Oracle would be like IBM if they got the chance, they're one step away from a paywall distro as it is!.. I don't trust either company. It hardly matters who's idea it was ... Redhat is an IBM company, so future decisions are suspect.
I'm moving to a broad base distro. I'm not getting bit again : /
i don't think so, it still possible, but I think this is what the new RHEL Business manager doing, things getting changed after she appointed in 2018. i remember she said "we have a lot of planes"
I just need a solution for my homelab. I was using CentOS 7. Now the RHCSA is v8. Should I go the stream route or just rock with Cent0S 7?
There's a more recent video here: ruclips.net/video/Iwafps4PnPI/видео.html
Since I made that one, Rocky has caught up with Alma so both are good options. If this is for a Red Hat certification I'd suggest the RHEL developer subscription which now has a free tier. That way you're learning on the closest thing to what you'll be tested on.
I started with red hat a long time ago, this is a disappointing direction for IBM to go. In saying that I switched to Debian a long time ago and the possibility of what just happened to CentOS is part of the reason why I switched.
I mean they f up big time.
Fedora is still good, but people will move to oracle linux. Much better, wven the paid support is much better (for now, due to smaller user base).
Didn't like how when Centos 8 was out they had chopped all kinds of legacy drivers out, that then had to be side loaded.
Wow godddd... RedHat f*ck!!! I use CentOS in all virtual machine in my home lab. In my work, I use CentOS too... I have some VM with a lot of services installed. I need to plan to migrate all services, maybe to Debian, until Rocky Linux become an enterprise option! Fedora/Ubuntu, both are, like many analyst said, Bug Distributions... and I agreed with them...
I've been a Fedora diehard since 2001, not any more. I'll wipe a partition and put Arch on it, and another gets Debian. I'm on Fedora 29, which is already out of support, and I don't like the news the now-IBM-owned RedHat is putting out.
I highly doubt that you'll want to migrate from CentOS to Debian and then back to Rocky Linux 8 or any other free EL8 clone... unless... you have too much time or something installing and migrating everything. Also CentOS 8 is not out of support yet. Wait until April/May and see what EL8 clones are available. Then you can still decide to migrate to Debian or if you are better off to migrate to a EL8 clone since the migration to another EL8 clone should be straightforward because of binary/package version compatibility.
@@donmichelangel0you are right... I will wait to see another EL alternatives 👍🏽👍🏽
So I'm new to the IT field and was wanting to get my rhcsa cert. Seeing that I was gonna use centos to prepare for my exam and IBM buying redhat would me getting that cert lock me in to only working for ibm? And should I just get my xk0-004 or lfcs instead?
RHEL is one of the big datacentre distros. Although they're now owned by IBM, RHEL is used by a lot of organisations.
If you're worried about CentOS running out before you take the exam, you can always sign up for a no-cost RHEL developer subscription.
Rhel self-supported developer subscription is free for up to 16 machines. Its great option for homelabs and small production workloads. I don't think you have anything to worry about getting locked in with rhcsa cert as it is valued pretty much anywhere regardless if the business uses rhel or not. I don't know which certificate is more valuable overall, rhcsa or lfcs and rhcse or lfcse. I've heard that redhat certs are harder to get difficulty wise but also overpriced.
There are also linux+ and lpic certifications but I have no idea where they sit in terms of value and difficulty.
Ubuntu server, fedora workstation for business and elementary os and opensuse for personal.
The Oracle script does work, but if your vms are gen2/UEFI boot, the Oracle script will destroy grub and your vm won't boot. I wouldn't go down that path. Springdale Linux might be an option for smaller or personal projects - it is a Princeton/Rutgers effort - check out springdale.math.ias.edu/ although note, their installer assumes legacy bios boot as well.
I thought Fedora was the testbed for RHEL? What's the point of CentOS stream then?
Fedora is a playground for new tech that might become part of RHEL in the future, although most versions of Fedora die and are replaced by a newer one without this happening. Stream is the current state of RHEL development. The latest release of RHEL is 8.3, so Stream 8 sits somewhere between RHEL 8.3 and 8.4 at present. Instead of testing new tech you're essentially testing tweaks/fixes to existing RHEL before they get released to paying customers in RHEL 8.4.
Let's leave Redhat, centos for Debian, Ubuntu distros. After all, this is what rh is fighting for.
Everyone (or every company) has their own special requirements for a Linux distribution. In certain areas Redhat or SuSE Enterprise Linux are mandatory.
Also you won't get anywhere 10 years enterprise update support from any Debian distribution, or not even Ubuntu. If you don't need these things then Debian and Ubuntu might be a thing. Speaking for myself I'll stay with CentOS for now and will possibly migrate the few CentOS 8 boxes to Rocky Linux, Cloud Linux or Scientific Linux, if their EL8 fork should get revived but I could also imagine to leave the few boxes on CentOS 8 Stream.
@@donmichelangel0 Debian does have some Enterprise support options available, but most of it revolves around (old-)old-stable
@@donmichelangel0 Re Ubuntu with 'extended security maintenance' for its customers it is ten years of 'enterprise update support' for LTS versions.
I believed they are acting like an opportunist ... m saying from the corporate economics point of view ..!
From September 2020 to till today .. the software industry across the globe earned a bloated ~130% extra revenue..
M sure this has something to do with this decision..!
I would prefer switch to oracle or debian
Yup! Me too...
Wait, we're already a Debian and Slackware shop ⛵
@@bradleyd.thornton5963 nein great fan of slackware
@@yasagarwal859 Yes, one really needs to have a vast historical familiarity of UNIX before they can truly leverage the limitless awesomeness that Slackware can deliver in the enterprise, or be willing to dedicate a long time to learning the tools and methods that make it so powerful and adaptable.
That having been said, unless you're already one of those folks, why bother when there are other perfectly capable distros that already offer these capabilities without that time and effort - Debian, SuSE, and well, until this month, CentOS 😉
A major American company I work with decided to switch to Oracle Linux shortly after Redhat was acquired by IBM. This makes me think they knew what was going on.
It's just a corporate decision to make the switch to protect against what a new owner will do to Red Hat. They could have switched to any of the major corporate distros with data-center level support, like SuSE. I agree, the managers might have had prior experience with IBM, and wasn't good.
We were toying with the ideas with CentOS first for less critical applications and for cloud deployments, and was just starting to move forward with it. Then this announcement occurred. I am keeping a very close eye on Rocky and hope they can get up to speed quickly. Otherwise I have also been looking at Springdale Linux. Either should be an easy conversion to say “Hey, you are now X and you get packages from here instead. There has also be talk with some groups to do a lift and shift from RH and CentOS to Ubuntu. I hope we don’t need to go that far because at least with my group we are talking over 1800 servers.
But this announcement does frustrate me. We currently already spend over 2 million on RHEL support per year. We are always asked to find ways to shrink our budget. This idea to use CentOS was going to cut SOME of that in a couple years.
Ouch! Someone else here posted about Project Lenix. That could be a good contender.
Next for IBM, they will stop supplying source code for RHEL
We are using Oracle Linux 7 for over a year and it is perfect. Stable, updates comes quicker than on CentOS, kernel 4.14 (uek r5) or 5.4 (uek r6), kvm_utils repo with never qemu and libvirt. Just perfect for our virtualization nodes, and it is all free! ksplice live patching of kernel, glibc and openssl also available with 30days trial.
Friendship with CentOS is no more, new friendship with Rocky Linux starts. Jk I use Debian for servers like a normal person.
@@mafiadoner3619 watching the difference in CPU and memory usage between nginx on CentOS and BSD is eye opening. It's crazy how much more efficient FreeBSD (or any BSD really) is than modern Linux loaded down with all it's systemd crap.
It seems "do one thing, do it well" makes a lot of sense in a server.
Bye-bye RedHat(CentOS), Oracle, Nginx, Apache. Hello Debian and Ubuntu with Golang on PostgreSQL))
I almost body slammed my screen when you mentioned Oracle... Your explanation sounds reasonable though
Haha. Don't do that... it sounds expensive.
Well there is no alternative.. period !
Fedora is not it ..
start migrating your systems to
FreeBSD, OpenSuSE , and Debian today !
OpenSUSE is the next best alternative
Oracle is the best bet if you want to stay Red Hat binary compatible.
But honestly, if you don't have to use specific apps that only run on Red Hat, BSD is the way to go.
Just use CentOS Stream...
@after you nothing, but if you have software that requires a specific distribution for support from the manufacturer, most aren't going to support Fedora.
@@DriveCarToBar Did you ever try to run FreeBSD as KVM Host?
This one has the same smell as when Oracle acquired Sun and then slowly killed off almost all FOSS initiatives
There is a familiar whiff about it, isn't there... Red Hat is so dependent on open source themselves at least they can't just decide to close it.
Than Oracle Linux is for you. Its based on RHEL also.