The two guys arguing for marriage are both happily married and have not lived in the real world the rest of men do. They are basically spoiled brats telling everyone else to stop complaining. Stephen Crowder also did this.
Most women hate most men. Why would you want to be with someone that thinks they are settling for you. You can love a women or you can understand a woman, you can't do both
tired of simping, yet theyll still call Muslim men misogynists ie still simping, it runs deep with westerners, even though their societies failed, they still trying to castigate other cultures whose women are still nice
We have to live thru the results before it will ever be changed or just leave the west and let them hash it out and go somewhere else that is doing something else?
it took place many times over 30 years ago. The conversation isn't enough. Also there were political actions to support those conversations but it wasn't strong enough. The more you know.
Unfortunately people only take action when shit has already hit the fan. Example, a very famous bar in my city didn't have security cameras since the beginning (been there 20+ years). It took a major barfight for the owner to finally install security cameras. Same with male/female dynamics. The reason women and male politicians didn't listen was because there would not be a major fight for years to come.
What I found amusing about this episode is there was a nearly 2 hr discussion and almost no one cut anyone off. Get 3 women together on your show and no one can get a word in without screaming over one another.
Except I noticed pearl would cut off and talk over Timothy Gordon frequently and didn't let him finish the point he was making, probably because his ideas conflict heavily with hers. But yes all the other guys were respectful.
@@adouloslabelh2957 🙄 I love and appreciate women, and my sisters are some of the best people I know, period. It doesn't mean you hate women when you dare to make accurate observations about their general nature, just fyi. To pretend otherwise is very disingenuous, and seems to be a "triggered" overly emotional response. Not to mention a strawman. It's like even the most tame criticism has to be met with accusations of misogyny, then shaming language. Honestly it says far more about you than the OP. Edit: Just noticed "4Bmovement" in your post. I get it now. Your accusations of hatred are pure projection. Good luck with your self inflicted problems.
@@ericmcmanus5179 And yet it's still a fact. The fact that she chose you tells me everything I need to know. Low self-esteem is a terrible mental illness.
Every Western and Westernized women. Western women love the Western world more then their own children because the Western laws especially America Allows it's women to do foul things to men and get away with it. Only in the Western world women can completely dress like perverts they be Dressed yet Naked and that's just one issue Western women are Allowed to get away with. Don't trust Western and Westernized women plane and simple
”To the woman he said, “I will surely multiply your pain in childbearing; in pain you shall bring forth children. YOUR DESIRE SHALL BE CONTRARY TO YOUR HUSBAND, but he shall rule over you.” And to Adam he said, “BECAUSE YOU HAVE LISTENED TO THE VOICE OF YOUR WIFE and have eaten of the tree of which I commanded you, ‘You shall not eat of it,’ cursed is the ground because of you; in pain you shall eat of it all the days of your life;“ Genesis 3:16-17 ESV ------ That curse given to ALL WOMEN necessarily means that ALL WOMEN have something going on inside of them that merits being “flagged” as a cautionary sign for men. The goal is to find a woman that: 1) Is aware of her cursed nature 2) Doesn’t want to live by it 3) Can demonstrate her ability to do self-work via: taking responsibility, allowing herself to being held accountable and being able to demonstrate that she can successfully put certain mindsets and behaviors behind her and move forward in righteousness. Such a person must first LOATHE who they’ve become in order to genuinely desire to change their ways: ”Then you will remember your evil ways, and your deeds that were not good, and you will loathe yourselves for your iniquities and your abominations.“ Ezekiel 36:31 ESV
All of this is self-correcting. Society will collapse and women will come running back to the "average man" in no time. I'll be dead by then, so I won't care.
My grandmother is an (orthodox) Roman Catholic, she takes communion to the elderly and shut-ins every sunday, AND she's a raging Fenimist. So don't tell me that it's only a protestant issue.
@dreamingmusic, excellent point. These guys are theorists. They have both been married for 20 years. They are oblivious that dating is totally different after 2012. Obama was against gay marriage when he ran for office in 2007. By 2011 the Dems were all in on gay rights and feminism kicked into high gear same time as the Trayvon Martin marches which paved the way for BLM. Women are followers. They are following the establishment. The establishment is for all intents and purposes Communist. It is not fun dealing with these women let alone marrying them.
It's a rookie mistake to think that the objective of life is happiness. We are not here to be happy. We are here to suffer until we realise we are under the curse of sin and are totally screwed. At which point we are supposed to call out sincerely to God and hope that He is there. He does the rest. Then we tell other people. Life is nothing to do with happiness. It's about being reconciled to God through Christ.
@@BonusHole? I don't think anybody looks at marriage like oh man I want to get married and then it's just going to suck, like it's an endurance event where I'm just going to hold on and then hopefully I can be miserable and stay miserable in the marriage. I think it comes down to more good times than bad. Most marriages are far from perfect, and most don't even come close .
It's also a good illustration of the larger problem -- men attacking other men. One thing I've pointed out a thousand times is how men are our own worst enemy. We will attack, deride, insult and belittle other guys in a heartbeat, and do it in public for all to see. What we don't do, though, is uplift and protect other men. So what you end up with is a society where guys are isolated from each other, knowing that 100% of women are against them and 98% of other men are against them. There's just no winning. There's no path to victory. There's no light at the end of the tunnel. Is it any wonder guys commit suicide at such high rates? Solidarity and Fraternity is everything, and always has been throughout every culture in history. We've forgotten that.
None of these people on this panel understand it. They all think it's just guys deciding suddenly to stop trying. This is the conclusion based on a lack of imagination and basic common sense. To wit: almost every MG**W comes from 2 different paths -- horrific divorce(with parent alienation of their children) or men who tried year after year to form a long-term bond and endured them... until that inevitable day when the gal just said, "OK. I'm moving on now." The cheating is also off the charts. In the former case, the man has reproduced. His life was destroyed for that "opportunity". He tells his story to other men and those men find out that the law is such that the resources they require to get a mate can be stripped from them by that mate. This is a game only fools play. In the latter case, any man who has to spend huge amounts of time to acquire the skills to gain resources can only devote so much time to trying to date. Those men will try to get a partner but it's not a trivial task when you're working most of the time and when you're home you're still skilling up in your free time. Even so, they try. They'll put in hours and make many attempts in various ways to meet vvomen. When every one of those ways yields no results -- not even a hint -- then men just stop trying. A man won't continue to play a game he has never won in a decade and will stand a high probability of losing again. To expect anyone to do so is the height of arrogance -- and mainly survivor bias: "Because it worked for me, every man will get the same result." Andrew was a self-admitted hot guy in his youth and is socially skilled. He had options. He can't understand a man who has zero options and who just had to quit because spending a life losing the whole way is a recipe to the end of a rope. Men who desire to live some semblance of a rich life must turn their attention to other things. A man only has 1 to 3 real heartbreaks in him. At his limit he can go one of 2 ways: become an f-boy or stop trying. The men who become f-boys are able to use others as utilities and they do so. The men who quit are incapable of using people like that and just decide to live honorably and on our own. A man's life is still his own. Living for some other man's ideology has been the fast end of many men who could've otherwise had a more rich and fulfilling life. The meaning of life isn't to sacrifice everything and gain nothing in return. What Andrew also fails to work out in his model of reality is that the most effective means of change in the history of mankind is for men to do... nothing. A state can crush a man who presents violations of statutes or if something he loves can be taken. But a state can't get anything out of a man who has decided to do nothing because he has nothing to lose. What's a prison to a man who already does nothing -- it's a net cost to the state. The only way the state can make such men work is real s***ery. But such systems collapse very quickly in the era of industrialization. Manual rock hammering is an absurdity -- it's a huge loss of productivity compared to machines. Could they just liquidate those men? Yes, but then what little economy was supported by those men immediately collapses... along with their taxes that were paid. If enough men just stop dating, this destroys the state to it's foundations... and this is occurring. The state is afraid of this and gets more afraid every day as they see just the results in current year. Nothing Andrew does or suggests will prevent the state from destroying any multi-generational project he thinks will ultimately win. Religion was supposed to be that project in the first place and it was rolled over by the state within 150 years. But when most men stop pursuing relationships, the state immediately goes into emergency mode -- those men's demands will be fought but the state will fail -- the men are invisible.., finding and punishing such men is impossible on a large scale. When a man has nothing to lose, they'll often just end themselves. The state's threats are as the wind. Plots, and begging are multi-generational plans but broad-based strikes get results in the here-and-now -- they always have. A state responds to power -- and the loss of same. Andrew's strategy is weak -- this is why he and others are allowed to have a YT channel and why T-F-M was ripped away from every social media platform years ago. T-F-M was seen as a clear and present danger to power. Andrew is seen as nothing more than an annoyance. Everyone on this panel is nothing but a gnat against the corporations AND the state. To be sure, the panel members are important for what they do, but all of their plans amount to end-of-the-rainbow promises that no man will benefit from today and likely none will see at the end of that rainbow in the future. There's only one winning strategy for men in the present: M**OW. It's so dangerous to the state that it has been directly targeted by the state and Google itself. I have to use coded language to even to speak about it -- that's how powerful it is. A M***W man will get one of 2 results by going M***W: he will remain alone for his entire life and so his life will always be his own... or the state will do the smart thing and shut down the legal and social environment causing the problems... which means the reasons for M***W's existence goes away. The church can't get such results because there's not enough of them. But there are more men going M***W (or quitting) today than any single religion in this country. This cuts across all religions and all cultures. It's a cost/benefit survival strategy that wins or costs the enemy so much that the loss is still progress.
I think a lot of young men today are going to have to get used to being single/unmarried, whether they like it or not. I'm not saying men should develop a defeated attitude & slowly decay like roadkill or anything but Aaron Clarey has done a phenomenal job writing about the dearth of marriageable women for young men in particular. Men have to become content with themselves & who they are first, even if they absolutely insist on getting married, as maybe they see that as a core value of their religious faith. Don't be afraid to walk out on a date if she refuses to reciprocate your deeply held religious convictions. Be careful out there brothers, God bless.
@@H1GHD3FF NOOOO....don't mention the obvious. But many women also cannot handle solitude very well. Another falsehood is that single men will die alone in misery. We ALL die alone. And if we cannot get to some sort of hospice care , it could be a miserable experience.
Moreover not many are worthy of such efforts. This is one of the biggest issues with hookup dating apps there's no telling how damaged said woman actually is on average. Combine that will the entitled attitudes and unrealistic expectations it's no wonder guys are turning to video games. You can only try so many times before you are forced to recalibrate for the sake of your mental health
Proverbs 21:19-21 It's better to live alone in the desert than with a quarrelsome, complaining wife. The wise have wealth and luxury, but fools spend whatever they get. Whoever pursues righteousness and unfailing love will find life, righteousness, and honor.
Our calling first and foremost is to be single. This is both men and women. The marriage Covenant is a SERIOUS thing to enter into and is neither mandatory nor is it to be entered into lightly. For the Israelites like Mary and Joseph their marriage partner was chosen for them by their parents at an age neither Mary nor Joseph would care about such things. They where then expected to honour their parents and God in marriage for the rest of their lives. Marriage is a functional and practical thing, not a romantic thing. It is the foundation of human society and God's intention has never been for us to surrender this to the whims of horny teenagers and young adults. Creating people is also serious business - our children do not inherit our Salvation and are not 'born Christian'. When we make them and bring them into life they are headed to hell and we have no reason to assume they will make it to heaven. If being raised in a Christian home amounted to children becoming Christians we would continue to see more and more Christians eventually taking over society. What we see in reality is being raised in a Christian home is the biggest indicator that you will be an atheist as an adult.
Bingo. Thank you. Also, until one’s own cup overflows, one is incapable of love as love is at its core, giving without a need in return. Until one’s cup overflows, all expressions of “love” are barter = business.
I think today this applies to feminized men as well. And they're so brainwashed on ' toxic masculinity ' they don't realize they're effeminate.who new Adam Corolla had mystic skills, when he wrote in 50 years we'll all be chicks.
This passage isn't telling you to not marry, this passage is telling you to properly vet who you're marrying, because if you marry badly, you're adding to the problem, not the solution.
Translation of the 2 young dudes (not Paul, not Aaron): if she promises you X Y Z in front God, she’ll definitely keep her word Brah! Absolute BS. There is NO GOD in the family court (Coach Greg Adams)
Someone should've asked them - "ok say I follow your advice, get married, have kids... 10 years later she decides she's 'not happy' and we end up in a messy divorce. Are YOU going to pay my legal fees? Give me a place to stay if I lose my house? Is the church?" Of course they won't.
Aaron Clarey's statement that once women were able to make their own money, they were freed of having to depend on a man, plus they never really liked them anyway, pretty much covers the situation end to end.
Tim’s problem is there is literally no enforcement mechanism. He cannot enforce submission, not with financial, physical, mental, or legal ways. Women can report all of these things to the state, file for divorce, and the man has lost. There is no system for him to enforce. Support, maybe, but not enforce. That is Paul’s whole argument. Just be realistic.
Theoretically, by the marriage, them man has some idea of whether the woman will submit to his will and obey him. If she won't, he should move on to someone better.
Elam is correct in terms of us being able to get anything off the ground and into mainstream culture - when it comes to male issues universities won’t even acknowledge that there is a problem! Richard Reeves is in academia and he said the university is so woke that they won’t even consider that men are having problems in the current system. They are still full power ahead with pushing female empowerment so we have such a long way to go here Oh and we have another problem - most married men won’t dare disagree with their wife on hot culture topic issues . This is a big problem culturally and I have no idea how to fix it .
Elam is also correct that men should be single if they do not want to marry. Christians are not here to save society and economies by getting married to awful women and making a mockery of the marriage Covenant. We are here to bear witness of Christ and the coming Judgement. The Catholics on this panel you will notice do not have a Scriptural basis and have had to 'contextualise' what Paul said plainly and God had recorded as His Word. Paul Elam nailed them when he said 'That's what Scripture says' and they had to say 'we read Scripture differently'. Yeah no kidding - Catholics are not Christians - they are Catholics. They are the legacy of an Empire - the Roman Empire. The Catholic Church is THE wolf in a sheep's clothing led by an Office plainly called 'anti Christ'.
I'd say the only way is through conversations and actions, have love for feminists that hate you, be the man to them that they have nothing to actually hate, I go to a complementarian church and I'm patriarchy, just talk to people one at a time
Aaron Clarey, as usual, is on a different level than anyone else in this sphere. I don’t agree with every single thing he says, but he has a wisdom and perspective on all of this that I don’t hear elsewhere.
Things that they don’t understand about why the vast majority of men come to the Red Pill (MGTOW is the well Red Pill knowledge comes from) is that we were ALREADY MARIED AND GOT DIVORCE RAPED. In my case I watched my mom put my dad through the Divorce Industrial Court meat grinder and I still got married and run through it myself. That’s how we come to this position, hard learned lessons and brutal life experience. They don’t understand that men opting out of the game and living minimally is having a positive effect right now rather than in 2-3 generations time. The powers that be and women are seeing men not willing to be tax cattle and defend a society that has taken their stake in the outcome away and they are scared of the implications.
Yeah don't expect men who have been happily married for years to have the first clue what life is like for the rest of us. They have been exceptionally lucky thus far but are foolish to assume their lives will always be this way. Not long ago Stephen Crowder spoke just like the Catholic guys on here. Then his wife divorced him making at least allusions to physical abuse having occurred which to be clear I think is total nonsense but Stephen's life turned around on a dime that day. This is typical Conservative life pattern. God has a way of humbling the proud.
your divorce grape is tangential to my false accusation grape(saw a cell for the first time the night she found my court filings for divorce and that I was leaving her). In fact I think the Divorce Industrial Court and Fake Domestic Violence Court are both on the Amber Heard Wing. Some 20+ years ago. wow so odd I have never had an accusation since, because they say once and abuser always an abuser?
true and people who believe in an invisible sky wizard want to dismiss this. then why does GOD himself not show up in divorce courts to save believers?
Classic Beta male dismisses belief in God as belief in 'sky wizard'. When God Himself showed up, they crucified Him. So no - He is not coming to rescue you from divorce. He knows women are a nightmare and none of our marriages are legitimate anymore anyway.@@CEWIII9873
My wife of 23 years ran off with guy from high school got married didn't last 2 years then got married again and I'm not sure that lasted a year ! Sad to waste 23 years with someone but I'm glad she is gone now ! Only fun times ahead ! I didn't have kids with her thank God and no alimony ! I feel lucky ! Be careful who you marry but you really don't know the other person !
You’re not alone. Uncanny similarities to my case, where we were together 22 years before she ran off with her high school sweetheart who contacted her over Facebook direct messages. No kids in our case either. This was horrible but it could have been much, much worse.
First of all thanks Pearl and the Audacity Network in making this much needed conversation possible. People can say a lot of negative things about Pearl but I don't see them talking about these topics that the panelists here talked about, and I don't see them putting out great panelists from different backgrounds and ideas and try and have a conversation. This is great. To answer Andrew's question why weren't there any men's rights groups trying to lobby. Well Paul Elam tried to form a men's group, not even a men's rights group, but just a men's group to talk about things and share their experience, sort of like a group therapy session kind of thing, and it immediately got banned from the SPLC. He talked about it on Honey Badger livestream if you are interested. Another answer to Andrew is that there's simply not enough support for men's rights issues. People just simply don't care about men. And this goes even deeper than egalitarianism and feminism. It's gynocentrism. Men are expendable. There's a reason why men's rights groups like honey badger radio don't get a lot of viewers and are demonetized long time ago. Politics at least nowadays is all about votes and support. And there's just not enough support for men's rights issues sadly.
Exactly, what you said about Pearl is very true because the more she (and others) pushes out content like this it will help change narratives about mens issues over time. Once men start being valued more it will make it easier to lobby for change etc.
Not enough support? Mens channels are some of the biggest channels on RUclips bringing in millions of viewers and followers. Take that migtow cope back to Paul's channel. Christians are going to have to rescue you dorks once again.
@@menoyuno8430 I hate to break it to you, but she isn't the first. Karen Straughan, a generation ago was doing the same thing. You might still be able to find some of her videos under her name or her handle, "girlwriteswhat". And a generation before that you had Esther Vilar writing "The Manipulated Man". A fed generations before her there were the anti-suffragettes, fighting against the vote because it was unnatural and would lead to all the things that we're seeing today. But all of these things happened, because "They" wanted to give women the vote, because women are kinda stupid and easy to manipulate. So they gave women the vote to get more socialism in place; they put women in the workplace so they could tax the slightly larger half of the population's labors, and now they're pushing the population-reduction and interracial-relationships messaging to women, because they want a smaller population that is dumber and easier to control. Men will never be "valued" more because men are the ones that actually create their value. Men are fundamentally disposable, and to try and argue otherwise is to argue against human nature itself. So the options that are left are to 'evolve' into something other than a human--which is arguably in place with what the technocrats are trying to do, or to crash it all down and rebuild society, with some additional protections against what was learned this time--some actually quite ancient knowledge that was somehow forgotten collectively along the way, if people read Aristophanes plays...
Your husband is the man. The only debater who anihilated cucks Destiny and Vaush. Hopefully they invite him to Fresh and Fit soon. We love yall. Keep on doing gods work.
For such a Christian man (and I'm not questioning his faith rather pointing out what he's overlooked) why is he ignoring the most obvious solution to all of this; eliminating usury? Every institution being railed on, and rightfully so, is funded through usury which requires monetary expansion in order to be profitable, which triggers the Cantillon effect which is theft. You want this lobbying solution? Use a money that can't have it's supply increased. (hint: there's only one and it's not a yellow rock) EDIT: 61.8% of young people now adays are going to college and with a 2:1 female to male ratio (try being chaste in that environment), which makes sense when you take the top 62% of the intellectual bell curve, you get more of the mean IQ which women hover closer to and less of the lower extreme which men dominate. Imagine if debt wasn't profitable and only 5% of the young attended higher education, it would eliminate almost all women from this currently corrupt institution where they wouldn't be wasting away their most sexually valuable fertile years. This is just a $1.5 trillion dollar problem in the united states, we have $210T in unfunded liabilities that if we eradicated would completely cease the egalitarian problem mentioned so often in this podcast.
Great show, diverse viewpoints. I'm a early MGTOW guy...we had to whisper in the shadows and try not to be beaten in the streets. Now, this is a conversation at the gym, on the job and now on the internet. A man has to be blind not to see the doom that comes from marriage and divorce. This is a multifaceted problem. My group of MGTOW men have been trying to figure it out for the past 10 years ...no solutions possible except tear everything down and start over. Until women need men for physical protection, food and shelter, we will continue down this road.
In given scenario w0m3n are still nefarious, liers and terrible persons, they only use you to survive, virginity is off the window and telegony and microchimerism in "at the door".
That's right. There's no turning things around now. The institutions are corrupted. The children minds have been destroyed. And the modern day woman has revealed herself as a selfish liar/cheater. Society has to completely crumble and start over again.
You do realise MGTOW parallels feminism right? It’s the same thing. Women complaining about men and not wanting to get married - now men complaining about women and not wanting to get married . Both are a wrong retaliation. Both are wrong.
Lol, call it what u want, it's all the same thing, its based on materialism and hedonism and is based in a subjective foundation, it can't justify morals or ought claims or truth or why we should care about truth or anything
@cnote3598 if objective truth exists then there is only 1 true philosophy that can justify morals and ought claims, a blanket philosophy is meaningless and when it's boiled down you get materialism and hedonism like every other philosophy but 1
@cnote3598 truth exists in general and truth in reality but if you want to understand a consistent worldview and theology and therefore philosophy it can only come from 1 true ideology, if multiple truths exist then tell me how something is true versus how something isn't true? Is 1+1=2 true along with 1+1=3? The laws of logic don't support ur incoherent claim
Guys, it has gotten so bad, you can safely assume there are no loyal women. I'm one of those guys, a Chad or whatever, that all women are chasing, and I see no exceptions. This needs to change, we can't keep society going this way.
You probably base your argument by thinking most women are like the top 1% attractive instagram models that most men want - BFFR most normal quiet girls are hopeless romantics… We can all agree and see that most men are c0rn addicts ; which literally alters their brain chemistry to not be able to be a loyal and monogamous.
Women are loyal to their own desires, makes sense. Men of all backgrounds are raised to protect women and women are raised to protect themselves not men, so there is the foundation.
Sorry Tim Gordon married a traditional Latin catholic mass woman who was spot on, on everything and we are still together but 12 years later have a sexless marriage and I am sole income earner(100k) and do most the house work. Women can change and goverment is there to protect them
Sorry bro ... I've been divorced fourteen years and still being fed to the meat grinder ! Definitely not easier after divorce . I miss my son the most .
Who here knows these creators?.....Barbarossa, Stardusk, spetsnaz, TFM, ayam serius, dark night, mayor of mgtown.....so many more i cant recall just now.
Marcel Enlightened, Hoard Dare, HappyHumbleHermit, TheSolitaryWolf, RPW, Groundwork for the Metaphysics of Mgtow, Liberation Y, Sunrise Hoodie and Colttaine... never forget Colttaine, the mgtow's Sherlock Holmes
Tim and Andrew seem out of touch with modern men. They misdefine their life conditions. Either a man marries a woman, or he's absolutely useless. There are clearly a lot of famous single men like Isaac Newton and Nicola Tesla that you're forgetting about.
Isaac Newton is also Christian as well. It's possible that a Christian man who upholds himself well biblically, but that also means holding women in a high standard as well, can't find a woman to settle down simply because he has high standards and majority of women don't meet his standards. Also I think a reason why both Tim and Andrew both find it important to specifically talk to Mgtows and talk about men's rights, is because Andrew has 5 daughters and Tim has 6 daughters. It's not looking good for them when they can't find eligible men to get married and have offsprings with. Andrew talked a lot about out breeding the secularists but with his 5 daughters and the current state of society in which women are propped up and how crippled boys are treated in society I don't know if they are going to out breed the secularists. In the end, you have to make the system fair so that boys can be boys and they can develop into capable men in order for your daughters to find eligible men to have offsprings to begin with.
@@Dunge0n - That's because he PAID the Catholic church for new birth certificates for his followers so that they could disappear and blend into the population with all new names. That's when he knew that the church was for sale.
I stepped on a mine in church, which blew my world up. I decided to try again, and all of the women I approach say the same line word for word- "I have a lot going on in my life, and I'm trying to get closer to God" Time to get away from church!
I’m a young Christian man doing his best to be faithful to God in all ways, but I refuse to marry just for the sake of it. More and more of todays women will ruin your life if you marry them. I’m praying God will put the right woman in my life at the right time but I will not marry just for the sake of it.
Talking with the very religious always ends the same way because they see their religion as the ultimate answer. That is literally what their faith means.
The problem is the lack of a morale framework and willingness to put duty over hedonism as led as here. Some sort of universal moral system needs to be advocated for if you want society to prosper. If you don't want religion what do you propose?
There is a video of a woman at the alter refusing to say she’d obey . I think the test holds firm . I haven’t met a woman who would say she’d obey . Not a single one .
Well, they don't have to announce it. They just have to do it. By the time you ask a girl to marry you, you ought to know if she has good values. No self-respecting man will spend much time with a woman who won't submit to his will.
People think mgtow men are some young loser tennagers who cant get girls,those are blackpill dudes but mgtow is full of older men that got married and destroyed why would they go through the system again.
Absolutely an incredible podcast with highly informed individuals offering the real world solutions that everyone else is afraid of saying! My son is 13, I lose sleep worrying about his options for a family.
@@veritasaeterna It would probably be better if he worked and waited a few years before trying to marry an 18 y/o woman. Relationships do a bit better when there is a bit of an age gap.
@@bli3366 perhaps, but its an uphill battle and ur most likely going to have to be with someone that has alot of issues cuz women like hedonism and money so the answer isnt very optmistic, hence why i argue for the younger the better
@@veritasaeterna You seem to misunderstand my point, which I thought was fairly clear... It is better for a man to wait a few years before marrying an 18 y/o woman. Or an 18 y/o girl should marry a man a few years older than herself. Two 18 y/os together lack any kind of experience, and the man can't guide his wife as the bible commands if he has no experience in life himself.
MGTOW is largely survival. At its best it can be freedom, exploration, peace, contentment, higher state of consciousness, achievement, adventure, creativity etc. compare this to the meat grinder and slavery of gynocentric “society”.
@@mrwhite2039typical tradcons. There's more to life than just living for womens inner flesh. Also greatest men that ever lived didnt live for women. They lived to make a name for themselves, which mgtow is supposed to be all about. Only weak and pathetic men lived for womens validation and usually got none or unwanted women. Great men lived for greater cause, and womem were just byproducts they got on the side during their journey to their conquest.
Is he the one in the lower left? Tim, I think. He seems delusionally stubborn, and the type of guy who is always right until suddenly he is wrong because his wife divorces him, and then he is deeply broken
@ Winterascent Bottom left and top right are religious commentators. That whole movement come across as completely out of their depth on these issues. Wouldn't want to speculate why.
No. actually this was stumbled on centuries ago when people realized that “adhering” to doctrine that demanded morality, values, and discipline, was the foundation for strong cultures and healthy families. Nothing has changed about those necessities.
@@Paul_ElamPaul I respect and admire your defense of mgtow but please don't claim to be mgtow because the 101 of mgtow is no marriage or cohabitation with females.
I'm 6'1 , attractive by birth, was very fit and physically strong, yet the society depressed me, in economic opportunity, in peace, and told me that men were either worthless or the enemy. As a result I became overweight and gave up on being economically viable, due to these pressures.
Andrew is making fallacious claims about men's rights activists not having formed political lobbies. Dude needs to sit down, knows nothing of the history of such attempts. There have been heroic efforts at forming political lobbies, and political activism, for over a century - hundreds of thousands of attempts big & small - and they always get squashed by the gynocentric machinery. Even during the last decade there have been serious attempts, like Farrells WH council for men and boys, and hundreds of other initiatives which have all been clear about raising big funds....... funds which nobody wants to give to non-gynocentric men's initiatives. No one is paying for a war chest - not even screwed-over rich men, not Churches, not anyone. I hope Andrew educates himself before spouting mindless, made-up-on-the-spot claims. Makes a few reasonable points otherwise, which I can appreciate and get behind. The missed point is that political change is downstream from culture - its the culture that must be targeted for change first..... and if that's successful, the lobbying and take-up by legislators will follow.
@mrwhite2039 we need them tho, we can't be doing infighting once we achieve our goal, I'm pretty sure if those guys see the marriage laws change and the landscape, most of them would change their minds
@@mrwhite2039 I encourage people to keep trying. But let's not fabricate bullshit about this never having been tried before. Andrew was having a moment of misplaced heroism when he assumed there was no one onto this before he arrived. I'm sure he has good intentions, but it's important to call men out when they get carried away with themselves in the way he did.
@@TomBombadil676Elam didn't have any strong arguments he's not even mgtow. Colttaine, Sandman, tfm or HappyHumbleHermit etc. Female nature is that actual mgtow focus and non if this has been brought up. These guys are facing level 1 bosses when they should be speaking with level 100
The two religious guys clearly have zero concept of what the average man is up against. The guy with the long hair is a spoon. Led with his credentials and got caught red-handed trying to strawman Paul Elam.
When it comes to modern relationships, it’s simple about Power, Control, and Manipulation in the West. There’s a reason why you do not see this psychology and mentality in SE Asian cultures. In those cultures men and women compliment each other, not this competition “I’m just as good and better than You, watch me” type of mentality that’s destroyed relationships in the West. This is why Men are leaving for these countries. Great points on the current state of relationships in western cultures from everyone on the panel. Thanks to Pearl and all the Guy in this very important subject.
20 minutes in and Paul is the smartest and most sober man in the room. The other guys are young, naive and full of enthusiasm. I'm not trying to be divisive.
The religious view on this is basically summarized this way: "Men, come to church, do the things we say to do, the way we say to do them, and everything will work out." I call bullshit - from an experiential standpoint. Religion is just a cope, because nature will out, and you see that happening with women all over the west. Andrew and Tim are ridiculous - and props to Paul for asking the tough questions that the church guys couldn't answer.
I like how men can talk to each other and let someone finish what they have today before starting. In a women's forum they shut overone another to get the floor and they often cut each other off I can't keep track of what everyone is saying because I get a piece of information from woman #1 before woman #2 cut her off.
wohoo best panel ever! sign me up and take my money lets move this lobbying forward, im not even a citizen of the usa but heck its in my best for the social state in the usa to change because the usa influnces the whole world colturely
Every single time that women ever got the vote, the country turned into a welfare state within 10 years. Except for the states; that took 14 years. Women overwhelmingly vote for big brother, and they love redistribution of wealth. Stefan Molyneux used to talk about this often, before he got de-platformed.
Tim is so full of himself. He’s the only person I’ve ever known (personally) who enjoys being unkind to people. Not only that but he lies and conceals truth that may shine a negative light on himself.
Imagine the kind of marriages that Tim and Andrew are recommending MGTOW men pursue: There they are at the wedding altar, hanging their heads with grim fatalism, saying to their brides-to-be, "Yes, I absolutely believe I have to get married, even though I don't want to, to do my part in perpetuating the species." His fiance would slap him and angrily storm away! 😂 It would be insulting to her! Then, Tim says MGTOW need to become priests. So, on threat of having to become a priest, I have to get married. And on threat of having to get married, I have to become a priest. What bondage!
Also Better Bachelor did a video in which the statistics showed that among the divorced or separated adults, 74% are Christian. The numbers aren't looking good for Christians. Now I do have to say, 51% are protestants and 19% are Catholics, but the point remains is that the number of marriage worthy women are extremely low and the risk is too high. In a recent stream from Andrew, he even said if he is single nowadays he probably would have stayed single because his standards are too high. So even he himself is agreeing on going his own way in this day an age.
@@Cleffa168 Oh yeah, thats right, I remember watching that video with BB but didn't know Andrew said that in another vid. It goes to show that sometimes mgtows biggest male critics can find themselves implementing the philosophy of going their own way without even realizing it.
@@menoyuno8430 It's from his live stream Thursday night on his crucible channel. It's not there either because he removed it or unlisted it. He usually removes his casual chatting/reacting/roasting streams and only keeps the more official debate streams on his channels. Maybe it's subscribers only, maybe it's removed idk. And in some point I actually respect him for saying that because that means he agrees at least to a certain extent what men in general go through. It's just he also has 5 daughters and it's to their best interest that don't check out of the market his plan of "out breeding the secularists" won't go so well when he has 5 daughters and Tim has 6 and majority of men have checked out of the market. At least I respect him for agreeing with Pearl that we have to change the laws. It's almost poetic justice that the two that push patriarchy the most, one has only daughters and one has 6 daughters and 1 son. So in order for them to help their daughters find eligible partners so they can continue breeding, they still have to face the problem that boys and men need to be treated fairly if not boys won't develop into capable eligible men for them or that eligible men would even consider marriage an option.
The thing they're forgetting about MGTOW is that an awful lot of men get to MGTOW by getting married, having kids and getting put through the ringer. I don't bother dating anymore but I'm certainly not an absent father or out of the gene pool
Great discussion, I think the only person I really disagreed with was Tim. He's clearly the most hostile to MGTOW, the MRM, and the Red Pill community. His reasoning can easily be debunked by including the men who HAVE been married and have later turned to one of these communities, myself included. We're certainly not all never-married and childless, a great portion of us have already been there and done that. His cheap provocations in saying stupid stuff like "tucking tail and running" are uncalled for. A great deal of us are making an informed decision predicated on a cost/rewards analysis, to not get involved, or re-involve ourselves, in marriage. I agree with Pearl that he is also very much naive to think he's so special that it is impossible for leftist ideology to creep into his family, and Pearl called that out perfectly.
In early America, marriages were under the purview of the local Protestant church and the marital records were even kept there. The congregates were listed as witnesses of record to the marriage.
I do not understand the need to "replace" marriage with anything. Paul is the og, and I respect him greatly. Ironically, I tend to associate with tradcons, but I can't argue with Paul's logic. The response of checking out cannot be argued against. The two arguing for marriage cannot escape the FACT that women change. All their talk about vetting and sacrimental and church accountability is bullshit. What is the church going to do in 10 years when your wife screws the neighbor? Nothing. They have zero power. So they excommunicate her... So what? He just lost his life and she gets a little public shame. Again, so what? She makes new friends and is fine in 2 months. He's ruined for years and years. So what do we replace marriage with? Nothing. Why the contract? The contract is a government thing. Marriage used to be a religious thing. It's not anymore. You want to be married? Call it pair bonded or something. Just don't sign a legal contract that gives power over your freedom, future and finances to the government.
There isn’t. That demand from Andrew is a deflection. Men decide individually whah they wanna replace it with. It’s not his place to demand a collective one
@@CroAglo you will know them by their fruits, and going against the first institution God created isn't a fruit of a Christian. Calling him Lord isn't enough.
I can't be the only one that thinks those 2 religious guys are full of crap..... there's no way I would waste my time trying to lead a woman that doesn't want to be lead.
That's something I think a lot of people miss. Men don't have a problem with risk or hardship as they with knowing everything rests on the whims of someone rewarded for betrayal.
This guy on the bottom left lives in the land of "Should be" because he has (at least for now) a successful relationship and his attitude is, "It's not happening to me so not my problem! Men just need to 'man up"
I'm 48 minutes in and I gotta say.... both Andrew and Tim don't seem to understand that MGTOW isn't about being a "player" or a "playboy," it's about growing as a Man and finding one's self without a woman. Developing your mind, and heart so that you can be a honorable man, and have (as one MGTOW creator says) Morals, Ethics, Values and Principles. When you have a government, and a society that actively hates you, and will actively try to destroy you, it does make you sit back and seriously ask ifnits worth it. My personal story; I made a choice after 2014 when I got dumped by my last girlfriend, who was having an emotional affair (pretty sure she was also physically cheating) that I would never go through this again.... this is also after went through a false allegation back in highschool (2009-2010) with my first ex, and was cheated on with another chick a couple years after that. To ignore actual stories from Men and say "MGTOW is bad because it's not Christian" is quite ridiculous, and also ignorant.
MGTOW is also about advising unmarried men to stay that way. and Andrew and Tim understand this and have reasons to object to this stance. though apparently they all agree that secular marriage should be avoided like the plague.
@0biwan7 While I agree with Andrew on some philosophical points about marriage, he really is missing the point. Tim is just speaking absolute nonsense. However, both seem to be saying something similar, which is "Men must get married" even in a non secular way.... which still doesn't change the fact that the women can take 3/4 of your stuff.
No men are reporting they are not happy because they can’t find a “good” woman. Not that they can’t find “a” woman. To Arnons point there are many married men who are in miserable marriages. Also to Pearls point a man who is miserable being alone would be even worse off if he was with one of these terrible women who are not marriageable.
Paul Elam is the only guy on this panel with any realistic view. Nobody is fixing this feminist clown world. Not for the next 150-200 years if at all. The other 3 guys are exceedingly naive and just show they have no clue. Point, blank, period.
A truly great talk, and much to unpack. The key problem is one of Solidarity and Fraternity, and how doing away with such concepts has destroyed the nation. Women show tremendous solidarity and sorority. They will circle the wagons against even perceived attacks from outside. They will be proactive in fighting for what they want. Men, otoh, do exactly the opposite and think they're the noble ones. This is what I call the "Spirit of Adam" because Adam was the first simp. Andrew is right that we need to start small and build up groups of men to advocate for men. Action wins, not reaction. One of the through-points on all of this, though, is that there has to be something for the men, some small little tidbit of carrot instead of all the stick they normally deal with. This is where Solidarity and Fraternity were once the balm to the weary souls of the men in the community. In the early 1900's, when distances were great and travel was slow, as much as 25% of men were members of a local Fraternal Order. These men-only spaces were where the men of the community came together, commisserated each other, talked things out, made deals, and generally worked to keep their towns on an even keel. It was were the young boys learned by example and were guided into becoming young men who would one day take the reins of society. In every single culture in the world, there was never talk about how "women are born with inherent value but men have to go out there and earn their value". This is automatically demeaning to men, and is 100% gynocentric propaganda that's pretty easy to see when you actually stop to think about it. It's stating that 99% of men have no value and never will because they haven't achieved some arbitrary level of success.... even though as Pearl often references, 99% of men are doing the work that keeps society functioning. In other words, even if a young boy never becomes some millionaire, you still very much need him to be a garbageman, doctor, engineer, janitor, mechanic, miner, etc. You need him every bit as much as you need any girl born. They both have inherent value because one literally cannot exist without the other. Where we've gone wrong is in not honoring the men. What woman would want to be hitched to a "beta" when everyone knows that's a second-rate guy? How could we expect women to say they deserve something other than the best they can possibly get rather than "settling"? In my own life experience, and I know a lot of guys feel the same way, it's one thing to have 100% of the women automatically arrayed against you, but really exhausting to see that 98% of other men are also constantly demeaning and belittling you. There's attacks from all sides, and never a hand up. You get told all about how you're not "doing your duty" or whatever, but as Paul noted... who decides what this duty is? If there is a duty, why aren't other men helping me to do that duty? Why don't I get accolades and acceptance and appreciation for the duty that I am doing? Napoleon warned us of this when he rightly noted that, "An army marches on its stomach!" What he was pointing out was that while we all applaud the brave Cavalry and cheer for the proud warriors, we are blinding ourselves to the very real truth that those wonderful men couldn't do what they do if it wasn't for a long line of "unsung heroes" who make it possible -- the cooks, bottle-washers, drivers, tailors, cobblers, builders, etc. In every single culture throughout history, we've seen boys guided and trained to become men. There were always fraternal orders, apprenticeships, and such things because it was understood that some boys would be good hunters or trackers or warriors, but others were more inclined to making bows and knapping stone points and crafting pottery. It was understood that all of those skills were vital to the society. One was not held up as higher than the others, and none were demeaned and belittled, made to seem like they were second-class because they weren't the "cool" guys. I often point out that while I'm not as capable as a Green Beret, all those Green Berets can't do what I've spent a lifetime studying. And, when you think about it, we all need roofers and plumbers a lot more often in our lives than we do a warrior. I need the mechanic to fix my truck just as much as I need the cops who hunt down trouble-makers. You will need the nerdy computer tech to fix your laptop, but when's the last time you really needed a boxer to guard your back? Where Western Society has gone wrong isn't in uplifting women with a slew of false narratives, but in demeaning men with a different false narrative. We talk about how men have a duty to society, which I agree with, but we forget that with that duty society there is also a key point that society (other men) have a duty to the men in the society. You cannot constantly ask something of someone without also offering them something in return.
This was an absolutely fantastic discussion! Best one I've seen in a long, long time. Paul Elam is 100% THE MAN on giving the best advice and solutions, and it showed here, especially at the very end. I do have a couple of criticisms of Andrew and Tim though. Pearl has previously broken down the hierarchy as God, Man, Woman, Child, in that order. Well, you might expand it to God, Government, Man, Woman, Child, Animals. But, there are many arguments that say religions are cults, just like Feminism is a cult. True, religions have been responsible for the creation of our civilizations, but they have also been responsible for the most heinous of crimes against humanity, such as being the catalyst of many wars, and for the butchering of baby boys' gentials - hundreds of millions of them - for no apparent reason. When territorial governments started to form, they were based around religious doctrines, so the governments endorsed the religions as their social enforcers. And that continues to this day. Governments control society behaviour with laws, legally enforced with violence from the police, and socially enforced by the Church. If you Remove God and religion, from the hierarchy, then the Government becomes the new god. Which is how and why, Tim and Andrew's arguments completely collapse at this point. God is simply a man-made story of someone who is leading you, always above or ahead of you. In other words, there is always someone who is the alpha, bigger, or stronger, or smarter than you, and you had better be careful if you confront that person. The God religion of an omnicient all-seeing entity looking down from the clouds that has never been seen or heard or communicated directly with, is just silly. This is also extremely toxic and harms hundreds of millions of people every day. Now, take God and religions away, a la John Lennon's "Imagine", and suddenly we awake from this mass delusion and can get on with being more productive with our lives, without being held back by false shame, such as looking at a woman! Towards the end, it is Andrew, to his credit, who says that it is the laws that have to be tackled first, which go right to the heart of our society's problems. The laws determine the society. If they are biased towards women, then men have no option but to take alternative courses in life, and that might include checking out of the relationship game. There is no shame or harm in that. At least they are not going to be responsible for the certain de*th of their children, by creating them, knowing they are eventually going to di*. Most men and women want to reproduce but the rules of the game have been skewed so badly, it's hard for any man to risk entering the game. The cause of this? Men, bowing to pressure to giving too much ground to women in law making, such as the recent h*te-crime laws in Scotland for which the leader, Humza Yousuff had to resign in disgrace. Meritocricy and integrity must return to raise society's standards in the west. You do this only by electing common-sense, good quality leaders, that is, if you can find any you can trust!
I'm still at the beginning of the video, but it sounds like Tim is saying that if a husband doesn't achieve a perfect husbandly leadership score, and then his wife leaves him, then it's the husband's own fault. Has there ever been a perfect husband? Can there be? Of course not. Perhaps the wife, also, has responsibilities before the Lord to honor her husband. (Eph 5:33, 1 Peter 3:5-6, etc.)
I'm pretty familiar with Tim (and Andrew) & I like them, and do think they are consistent regarding Biblical duties for not just husbands but wives also. That being said, even in the more traditional Orthodox & Catholic churches, their preists will not orient their sermons around wives truly submitting to husbands (Ephesians 5:22,), older women having a duty to teach younger women (Titus 2:3-5), wives having a responsibility and obligation even to unbelieving or wayward husbands (1 Peter 3:1-2). They'll also neglect how God punished Eve separately due to Eve's own choices (see Genesis 3:16). You will never hear from these feminist priests that disobedience & rebelliousness originated inside the mind of Eve first, for example. Only "Adam man bad" exegesis They won't talk about the manipulative Proverbs 7 woman who was a harlot. In 1 Corinthians 7:5 - they don't emphasize the importance of a wife not sexually depriving her own husband. It's largely just high standards on men & infinite "get out of jail free" cards for women. This is not genuine traditional patriarchy. I'm all for high standards for men & husbands but ONLY if there are high standards for women & wives also. Oh & a definite argument for women veiling in church can be made additionally by St Paul in Corinthians. Can't call out inappropriately dressed women at church though, that's the "based & trad" patriarchal thing to do nowadays obviously, just let it slide right in like the serpent I suppose
@@mrwhite2039 It's not a straw man. Later in the video Gordon in typical fashion describes in detail the problem is: "Men are not leaders, etc etc etc." And Clarey responded (I'll paraphrase) : "We're asking a lot of 22 year old men; where they're told they're the cause of everything bad in America, there's no jobs, they can barely support themselves, and they need to be able to support a family, de-program modern women from feminist indoctrination, etc, when only 3% are marriage material - Men will do what corporations do, go overseas for a good woman. - The point is, Gordon is partially correct; men need to be leaders. Men need to require submission of their wives. Where he is wrong is in his rejection of reality. Men of the WWII generation didn't demand or require submission, women were naturally more submissive due to lack of feminist indoctrination. Men of the WWII generation raised the baby boomers i.e. the worst generation in recent history. The baby boomers raised generation X the lost generation. Men have not been taught to require submission from their wives in over 100 years. 23 year olds are not going to figure it out on their own. We - The Men who figured this out need to teach them and lead by example. Not blame them for not knowing this.
@@thaimuayshoo1171 Excellent points. These guys are unaware of how much gynocentric programming they have assimilated. You are obviously free. Congrats.
Women will only change when they have to deal with the accountability of their own decisions. Since accountability is a womens kryponite, I don't see that happening anytime soon.
Yes, Aaron Clarey is correct. Men are exhausted. We are tired of this shit.
The two guys arguing for marriage are both happily married and have not lived in the real world the rest of men do.
They are basically spoiled brats telling everyone else to stop complaining.
Stephen Crowder also did this.
Most women hate most men. Why would you want to be with someone that thinks they are settling for you. You can love a women or you can understand a woman, you can't do both
tired of simping, yet theyll still call Muslim men misogynists ie still simping, it runs deep with westerners, even though their societies failed, they still trying to castigate other cultures whose women are still nice
💯💯💯💯
Its too much to deal with. Relationship-wise the older generations had their challenges but nothing like this.
We needed this kind of conversation 30 years ago
30 years ago it would've made a difference
We have to live thru the results before it will ever be changed
or just leave the west and let them hash it out and go somewhere else that is doing something else?
it took place many times over 30 years ago. The conversation isn't enough. Also there were political actions to support those conversations but it wasn't strong enough.
The more you know.
Right!?
Unfortunately people only take action when shit has already hit the fan. Example, a very famous bar in my city didn't have security cameras since the beginning (been there 20+ years). It took a major barfight for the owner to finally install security cameras. Same with male/female dynamics. The reason women and male politicians didn't listen was because there would not be a major fight for years to come.
What I found amusing about this episode is there was a nearly 2 hr discussion and almost no one cut anyone off. Get 3 women together on your show and no one can get a word in without screaming over one another.
Yes. Men are just naturally more orderly that way
Except I noticed pearl would cut off and talk over Timothy Gordon frequently and didn't let him finish the point he was making, probably because his ideas conflict heavily with hers. But yes all the other guys were respectful.
Be with a xy if yall dislike xx so much. #4Bmovement
@@adouloslabelh2957 🙄 I love and appreciate women, and my sisters are some of the best people I know, period. It doesn't mean you hate women when you dare to make accurate observations about their general nature, just fyi. To pretend otherwise is very disingenuous, and seems to be a "triggered" overly emotional response. Not to mention a strawman. It's like even the most tame criticism has to be met with accusations of misogyny, then shaming language. Honestly it says far more about you than the OP.
Edit: Just noticed "4Bmovement" in your post. I get it now. Your accusations of hatred are pure projection. Good luck with your self inflicted problems.
@@adouloslabelh2957
Lolwut?
“Lists reason why we need to bring back shaming”
Andrew Wilson - PLUS ITS FUN! 😂😂😂
I fucking love Andrew Wilson 🤣🤣
watching it just for him
only 4 minutes in and he has me howling...
You have no idea how refreshing it is to finally hear some men publicly say patriarchy is not only not bad, but objectively moral and correct.
Andrew is a walking W
I feel sorry for any woman unlucky enough to get close to you.
@@kaybrown7733 good argument. My wife and kids disagree. Doesn't change the fact that it's unoriginal and uninspired though.
@@ericmcmanus5179 And yet it's still a fact. The fact that she chose you tells me everything I need to know. Low self-esteem is a terrible mental illness.
@@kaybrown7733maybe make and argument? Oh wait there isn’t one😂😂
“Every woman is a red flag until she is proven otherwise” Paul Elam.
True
Every Western and Westernized women. Western women love the Western world more then their own children because the Western laws especially America Allows it's women to do foul things to men and get away with it. Only in the Western world women can completely dress like perverts they be Dressed yet Naked and that's just one issue Western women are Allowed to get away with. Don't trust Western and Westernized women plane and simple
In God we Trust. Everyone else pays cash.
I’m a woman and I think that is fair.
”To the woman he said, “I will surely multiply your pain in childbearing; in pain you shall bring forth children. YOUR DESIRE SHALL BE CONTRARY TO YOUR HUSBAND, but he shall rule over you.” And to Adam he said, “BECAUSE YOU HAVE LISTENED TO THE VOICE OF YOUR WIFE and have eaten of the tree of which I commanded you, ‘You shall not eat of it,’ cursed is the ground because of you; in pain you shall eat of it all the days of your life;“
Genesis 3:16-17 ESV
------
That curse given to ALL WOMEN necessarily means that ALL WOMEN have something going on inside of them that merits being “flagged” as a cautionary sign for men.
The goal is to find a woman that:
1) Is aware of her cursed nature
2) Doesn’t want to live by it
3) Can demonstrate her ability to do self-work via: taking responsibility, allowing herself to being held accountable and being able to demonstrate that she can successfully put certain mindsets and behaviors behind her and move forward in righteousness.
Such a person must first LOATHE who they’ve become in order to genuinely desire to change their ways:
”Then you will remember your evil ways, and your deeds that were not good, and you will loathe yourselves for your iniquities and your abominations.“
Ezekiel 36:31 ESV
Average women don't want average men .
That may be true, but unfortunately all you'll hear from everyone is "oh well just don't be average then, duh".
No women want average men.
They never have. They did previously because times were much harder and death was around every corner at all ages.
All of this is self-correcting. Society will collapse and women will come running back to the "average man" in no time. I'll be dead by then, so I won't care.
@@Aspire705Exactly.. Math is math. there will always be a limited amount of " High Value Men"
WOW that was awesome. More of this. Thank you Pearl.
My grandmother is an (orthodox) Roman Catholic, she takes communion to the elderly and shut-ins every sunday, AND she's a raging Fenimist.
So don't tell me that it's only a protestant issue.
It's not a proddy issue, that guy just wants to blame his enemies for everything
@dreamingmusic, excellent point. These guys are theorists. They have both been married for 20 years. They are oblivious that dating is totally different after 2012. Obama was against gay marriage when he ran for office in 2007. By 2011 the Dems were all in on gay rights and feminism kicked into high gear same time as the Trayvon Martin marches which paved the way for BLM. Women are followers. They are following the establishment. The establishment is for all intents and purposes Communist.
It is not fun dealing with these women let alone marrying them.
Sorry @julesfalcone I can't see your comment because FascistTube is hiding it, just as we discussed.
Orthodox catholic?
@@bloodprince113 - Roman Catholic, where the priests speaks in Latin.
Pearl is correct. The cause of either happiness or unhappiness all comes down to female hypergamy.
It's a rookie mistake to think that the objective of life is happiness.
We are not here to be happy. We are here to suffer until we realise we are under the curse of sin and are totally screwed.
At which point we are supposed to call out sincerely to God and hope that He is there.
He does the rest. Then we tell other people.
Life is nothing to do with happiness. It's about being reconciled to God through Christ.
i thnk people mean fulfillment when they say happiness
@@BonusHole? I don't think anybody looks at marriage like oh man I want to get married and then it's just going to suck, like it's an endurance event where I'm just going to hold on and then hopefully I can be miserable and stay miserable in the marriage.
I think it comes down to more good times than bad.
Most marriages are far from perfect, and most don't even come close .
@@BonusHolegood luck finding a partner to share your misery, even Eve try to escape Adam toxic masculinity 😂
@@spiff1 Yes. True happiness is not continuous pleasure, but rather, a well ordered soul.
Paul gives good advice about not pathologizing MGTOW.
👍🏽
MGTOW pretty much hate Paul Elam. I have not spoken to one who cares to hear about anything he has to say.
☝️
It's also a good illustration of the larger problem -- men attacking other men. One thing I've pointed out a thousand times is how men are our own worst enemy. We will attack, deride, insult and belittle other guys in a heartbeat, and do it in public for all to see. What we don't do, though, is uplift and protect other men. So what you end up with is a society where guys are isolated from each other, knowing that 100% of women are against them and 98% of other men are against them. There's just no winning. There's no path to victory. There's no light at the end of the tunnel. Is it any wonder guys commit suicide at such high rates? Solidarity and Fraternity is everything, and always has been throughout every culture in history. We've forgotten that.
None of these people on this panel understand it. They all think it's just guys deciding suddenly to stop trying. This is the conclusion based on a lack of imagination and basic common sense.
To wit: almost every MG**W comes from 2 different paths -- horrific divorce(with parent alienation of their children) or men who tried year after year to form a long-term bond and endured them... until that inevitable day when the gal just said, "OK. I'm moving on now." The cheating is also off the charts.
In the former case, the man has reproduced. His life was destroyed for that "opportunity". He tells his story to other men and those men find out that the law is such that the resources they require to get a mate can be stripped from them by that mate. This is a game only fools play.
In the latter case, any man who has to spend huge amounts of time to acquire the skills to gain resources can only devote so much time to trying to date. Those men will try to get a partner but it's not a trivial task when you're working most of the time and when you're home you're still skilling up in your free time. Even so, they try. They'll put in hours and make many attempts in various ways to meet vvomen. When every one of those ways yields no results -- not even a hint -- then men just stop trying.
A man won't continue to play a game he has never won in a decade and will stand a high probability of losing again. To expect anyone to do so is the height of arrogance -- and mainly survivor bias: "Because it worked for me, every man will get the same result."
Andrew was a self-admitted hot guy in his youth and is socially skilled. He had options. He can't understand a man who has zero options and who just had to quit because spending a life losing the whole way is a recipe to the end of a rope. Men who desire to live some semblance of a rich life must turn their attention to other things.
A man only has 1 to 3 real heartbreaks in him. At his limit he can go one of 2 ways: become an f-boy or stop trying. The men who become f-boys are able to use others as utilities and they do so. The men who quit are incapable of using people like that and just decide to live honorably and on our own.
A man's life is still his own. Living for some other man's ideology has been the fast end of many men who could've otherwise had a more rich and fulfilling life. The meaning of life isn't to sacrifice everything and gain nothing in return.
What Andrew also fails to work out in his model of reality is that the most effective means of change in the history of mankind is for men to do... nothing. A state can crush a man who presents violations of statutes or if something he loves can be taken. But a state can't get anything out of a man who has decided to do nothing because he has nothing to lose. What's a prison to a man who already does nothing -- it's a net cost to the state.
The only way the state can make such men work is real s***ery. But such systems collapse very quickly in the era of industrialization. Manual rock hammering is an absurdity -- it's a huge loss of productivity compared to machines.
Could they just liquidate those men? Yes, but then what little economy was supported by those men immediately collapses... along with their taxes that were paid.
If enough men just stop dating, this destroys the state to it's foundations... and this is occurring. The state is afraid of this and gets more afraid every day as they see just the results in current year.
Nothing Andrew does or suggests will prevent the state from destroying any multi-generational project he thinks will ultimately win. Religion was supposed to be that project in the first place and it was rolled over by the state within 150 years. But when most men stop pursuing relationships, the state immediately goes into emergency mode -- those men's demands will be fought but the state will fail -- the men are invisible.., finding and punishing such men is impossible on a large scale. When a man has nothing to lose, they'll often just end themselves. The state's threats are as the wind.
Plots, and begging are multi-generational plans but broad-based strikes get results in the here-and-now -- they always have. A state responds to power -- and the loss of same.
Andrew's strategy is weak -- this is why he and others are allowed to have a YT channel and why T-F-M was ripped away from every social media platform years ago. T-F-M was seen as a clear and present danger to power. Andrew is seen as nothing more than an annoyance. Everyone on this panel is nothing but a gnat against the corporations AND the state.
To be sure, the panel members are important for what they do, but all of their plans amount to end-of-the-rainbow promises that no man will benefit from today and likely none will see at the end of that rainbow in the future.
There's only one winning strategy for men in the present: M**OW. It's so dangerous to the state that it has been directly targeted by the state and Google itself. I have to use coded language to even to speak about it -- that's how powerful it is.
A M***W man will get one of 2 results by going M***W: he will remain alone for his entire life and so his life will always be his own... or the state will do the smart thing and shut down the legal and social environment causing the problems... which means the reasons for M***W's existence goes away.
The church can't get such results because there's not enough of them. But there are more men going M***W (or quitting) today than any single religion in this country. This cuts across all religions and all cultures. It's a cost/benefit survival strategy that wins or costs the enemy so much that the loss is still progress.
I think a lot of young men today are going to have to get used to being single/unmarried, whether they like it or not. I'm not saying men should develop a defeated attitude & slowly decay like roadkill or anything but Aaron Clarey has done a phenomenal job writing about the dearth of marriageable women for young men in particular.
Men have to become content with themselves & who they are first, even if they absolutely insist on getting married, as maybe they see that as a core value of their religious faith. Don't be afraid to walk out on a date if she refuses to reciprocate your deeply held religious convictions. Be careful out there brothers, God bless.
We already seeing the negative effects in America with men not being men. But women asked for it.
Most men live a lonely lifestyle anyways. Don't see how people think this is new. Even married men who live in the gargare understands
@@H1GHD3FF NOOOO....don't mention the obvious. But many women also cannot handle solitude very well. Another falsehood is that single men will die alone in misery. We ALL die alone. And if we cannot get to some sort of hospice care , it could be a miserable experience.
Simple solition
Go to school and learn to code then move to asia be a coder and live there with your philipino or thai or japanese wife
What a competent panel. More of this please!
Yes I enjoyed this as well!
Listening to this on my own on my 42 birthday. Well done Pearl.
Happy Birthday!
@@KorruptedFlame thanks. It’s was actually surprisingly happy this year 🙂
Happy birthday! You are loved.
Happy birthday Sir.
Happy belated birthday!
Peal: you cant lead women who don't wanna be led. You cant overstate the TRUTH of that statement 💯
Moreover not many are worthy of such efforts. This is one of the biggest issues with hookup dating apps there's no telling how damaged said woman actually is on average. Combine that will the entitled attitudes and unrealistic expectations it's no wonder guys are turning to video games. You can only try so many times before you are forced to recalibrate for the sake of your mental health
Proverbs 21:19-21
It's better to live alone in the desert than with a quarrelsome, complaining wife. The wise have wealth and luxury, but fools spend whatever they get. Whoever pursues righteousness and unfailing love will find life, righteousness, and honor.
Our calling first and foremost is to be single. This is both men and women.
The marriage Covenant is a SERIOUS thing to enter into and is neither mandatory nor is it to be entered into lightly.
For the Israelites like Mary and Joseph their marriage partner was chosen for them by their parents at an age neither Mary nor Joseph would care about such things. They where then expected to honour their parents and God in marriage for the rest of their lives.
Marriage is a functional and practical thing, not a romantic thing. It is the foundation of human society and God's intention has never been for us to surrender this to the whims of horny teenagers and young adults.
Creating people is also serious business - our children do not inherit our Salvation and are not 'born Christian'. When we make them and bring them into life they are headed to hell and we have no reason to assume they will make it to heaven.
If being raised in a Christian home amounted to children becoming Christians we would continue to see more and more Christians eventually taking over society.
What we see in reality is being raised in a Christian home is the biggest indicator that you will be an atheist as an adult.
Bingo. Thank you.
Also, until one’s own cup overflows, one is incapable of love as love is at its core, giving without a need in return. Until one’s cup overflows, all expressions of “love” are barter = business.
I think today this applies to feminized men as well. And they're so brainwashed on ' toxic masculinity ' they don't realize they're effeminate.who new Adam Corolla had mystic skills, when he wrote in 50 years we'll all be chicks.
This passage isn't telling you to not marry, this passage is telling you to properly vet who you're marrying, because if you marry badly, you're adding to the problem, not the solution.
I don't have a problem with marriage. Women have a problem staying married and I don't want to subsidize their bad behavior.
So how do we make marriage more enticing than divorce for women?
Translation of the 2 young dudes (not Paul, not Aaron):
if she promises you X Y Z in front God, she’ll definitely keep her word Brah!
Absolute BS.
There is NO GOD in the family court (Coach Greg Adams)
Exactly
Idk what's so hard to understand about that, her words don't mean shit. It's obvious
Someone should've asked them - "ok say I follow your advice, get married, have kids... 10 years later she decides she's 'not happy' and we end up in a messy divorce. Are YOU going to pay my legal fees? Give me a place to stay if I lose my house? Is the church?" Of course they won't.
Facts
@@city_of_coompton6832no they wont thats the problem with tradcons they won't even give you sympathy
To the panel: when was the last time you dated someone you weren't married to? If it's over 20 years, maybe you have no idea as to what its like.
Aaron Clarey's statement that once women were able to make their own money, they were freed of having to depend on a man, plus they never really liked them anyway, pretty much covers the situation end to end.
Tim’s problem is there is literally no enforcement mechanism. He cannot enforce submission, not with financial, physical, mental, or legal ways. Women can report all of these things to the state, file for divorce, and the man has lost. There is no system for him to enforce. Support, maybe, but not enforce. That is Paul’s whole argument. Just be realistic.
Exactly. Without an enforcement mechanism he's just LARPing. So frustrating that he couldn't see that.
Submission is not in the marriage contract, but the marital debt is. The ecclesiastical judge enforces with loss of sacraments.
Yep. Getting co-operation from women is like herding cats. They've gotta be ruled with an iron fist, or they wreck everything.
Theoretically, by the marriage, them man has some idea of whether the woman will submit to his will and obey him. If she won't, he should move on to someone better.
@@brandonflorida1092 I hear marriage is till death
Great discussion between men. Would like to see more of these.
G'day Mate!
Good point. Most women with a platform wouldn't host men for this discussion.
Elam is correct in terms of us being able to get anything off the ground and into mainstream culture - when it comes to male issues universities won’t even acknowledge that there is a problem! Richard Reeves is in academia and he said the university is so woke that they won’t even consider that men are having problems in the current system. They are still full power ahead with pushing female empowerment so we have such a long way to go here
Oh and we have another problem - most married men won’t dare disagree with their wife on hot culture topic issues . This is a big problem culturally and I have no idea how to fix it .
Elam is also correct that men should be single if they do not want to marry. Christians are not here to save society and economies by getting married to awful women and making a mockery of the marriage Covenant. We are here to bear witness of Christ and the coming Judgement.
The Catholics on this panel you will notice do not have a Scriptural basis and have had to 'contextualise' what Paul said plainly and God had recorded as His Word.
Paul Elam nailed them when he said 'That's what Scripture says' and they had to say 'we read Scripture differently'.
Yeah no kidding - Catholics are not Christians - they are Catholics. They are the legacy of an Empire - the Roman Empire. The Catholic Church is THE wolf in a sheep's clothing led by an Office plainly called 'anti Christ'.
They sold their balls ⚽️ for some 🐱 kitty 😂
Reeves also said that men need to conform more to Feminist ideals, hes a simp
To do so will likely end in divorce. They don't wanna be paying child support for kids that'll wind up calling other men daddy.
I'd say the only way is through conversations and actions, have love for feminists that hate you, be the man to them that they have nothing to actually hate, I go to a complementarian church and I'm patriarchy, just talk to people one at a time
Aaron Clarey, as usual, is on a different level than anyone else in this sphere. I don’t agree with every single thing he says, but he has a wisdom and perspective on all of this that I don’t hear elsewhere.
Naw. He’s a dumb secularist. Religions dudes killed it
Things that they don’t understand about why the vast majority of men come to the Red Pill (MGTOW is the well Red Pill knowledge comes from) is that we were ALREADY MARIED AND GOT DIVORCE RAPED. In my case I watched my mom put my dad through the Divorce Industrial Court meat grinder and I still got married and run through it myself. That’s how we come to this position, hard learned lessons and brutal life experience. They don’t understand that men opting out of the game and living minimally is having a positive effect right now rather than in 2-3 generations time. The powers that be and women are seeing men not willing to be tax cattle and defend a society that has taken their stake in the outcome away and they are scared of the implications.
Yeah don't expect men who have been happily married for years to have the first clue what life is like for the rest of us. They have been exceptionally lucky thus far but are foolish to assume their lives will always be this way.
Not long ago Stephen Crowder spoke just like the Catholic guys on here. Then his wife divorced him making at least allusions to physical abuse having occurred which to be clear I think is total nonsense but Stephen's life turned around on a dime that day.
This is typical Conservative life pattern. God has a way of humbling the proud.
Most red pillers aint divorced, thats MGTOW, red pill is just logic and common sense
your divorce grape is tangential to my false accusation grape(saw a cell for the first time the night she found my court filings for divorce and that I was leaving her). In fact I think the Divorce Industrial Court and Fake Domestic Violence Court are both on the Amber Heard Wing. Some 20+ years ago. wow so odd I have never had an accusation since, because they say once and abuser always an abuser?
true
and people who believe in an invisible sky wizard want to dismiss this.
then why does GOD himself not show up in divorce courts to save believers?
Classic Beta male dismisses belief in God as belief in 'sky wizard'.
When God Himself showed up, they crucified Him.
So no - He is not coming to rescue you from divorce. He knows women are a nightmare and none of our marriages are legitimate anymore anyway.@@CEWIII9873
Awesome panel pearl! One of the best ive seen.
I second that thought.
My wife of 23 years ran off with guy from high school got married didn't last 2 years then got married again and I'm not sure that lasted a year ! Sad to waste 23 years with someone but I'm glad she is gone now ! Only fun times ahead ! I didn't have kids with her thank God and no alimony ! I feel lucky ! Be careful who you marry but you really don't know the other person !
You’re not alone. Uncanny similarities to my case, where we were together 22 years before she ran off with her high school sweetheart who contacted her over Facebook direct messages. No kids in our case either. This was horrible but it could have been much, much worse.
💛
Holy shit!
LOLOLOLOLOL@@JuandelaCruz001
ONLY FUN TIMES AHEAD @@mrredacted
First of all thanks Pearl and the Audacity Network in making this much needed conversation possible. People can say a lot of negative things about Pearl but I don't see them talking about these topics that the panelists here talked about, and I don't see them putting out great panelists from different backgrounds and ideas and try and have a conversation. This is great.
To answer Andrew's question why weren't there any men's rights groups trying to lobby. Well Paul Elam tried to form a men's group, not even a men's rights group, but just a men's group to talk about things and share their experience, sort of like a group therapy session kind of thing, and it immediately got banned from the SPLC. He talked about it on Honey Badger livestream if you are interested.
Another answer to Andrew is that there's simply not enough support for men's rights issues. People just simply don't care about men. And this goes even deeper than egalitarianism and feminism. It's gynocentrism. Men are expendable. There's a reason why men's rights groups like honey badger radio don't get a lot of viewers and are demonetized long time ago. Politics at least nowadays is all about votes and support. And there's just not enough support for men's rights issues sadly.
Exactly, what you said about Pearl is very true because the more she
(and others) pushes out content like this it will help change narratives about mens issues over time. Once men start being valued more it will make it easier to lobby for change etc.
Not enough support? Mens channels are some of the biggest channels on RUclips bringing in millions of viewers and followers. Take that migtow cope back to Paul's channel. Christians are going to have to rescue you dorks once again.
@mrwhite2039 aw how cute, the christians who let all this happen are going to be the ones that "save us"
@@menoyuno8430 I hate to break it to you, but she isn't the first.
Karen Straughan, a generation ago was doing the same thing. You might still be able to find some of her videos under her name or her handle, "girlwriteswhat".
And a generation before that you had Esther Vilar writing "The Manipulated Man".
A fed generations before her there were the anti-suffragettes, fighting against the vote because it was unnatural and would lead to all the things that we're seeing today.
But all of these things happened, because "They" wanted to give women the vote, because women are kinda stupid and easy to manipulate. So they gave women the vote to get more socialism in place; they put women in the workplace so they could tax the slightly larger half of the population's labors, and now they're pushing the population-reduction and interracial-relationships messaging to women, because they want a smaller population that is dumber and easier to control.
Men will never be "valued" more because men are the ones that actually create their value. Men are fundamentally disposable, and to try and argue otherwise is to argue against human nature itself. So the options that are left are to 'evolve' into something other than a human--which is arguably in place with what the technocrats are trying to do, or to crash it all down and rebuild society, with some additional protections against what was learned this time--some actually quite ancient knowledge that was somehow forgotten collectively along the way, if people read Aristophanes plays...
@@menoyuno8430Let's be honest. Places that dont value their men are experiencing literal chaos.
I love how Andrew opened the panel with a roast of the other panelists completely unprovoked 😂
Math isn't his strong suit
Andrew is just your another low wit plug-god-gap boy
Your husband is the man. The only debater who anihilated cucks Destiny and Vaush. Hopefully they invite him to Fresh and Fit soon. We love yall. Keep on doing gods work.
@@timthetiny7538 Not so sure about that. I'm pretty sure he is a mechanical engineer. Either way, Andrew AND Rachel Wilson are based
For such a Christian man (and I'm not questioning his faith rather pointing out what he's overlooked) why is he ignoring the most obvious solution to all of this; eliminating usury? Every institution being railed on, and rightfully so, is funded through usury which requires monetary expansion in order to be profitable, which triggers the Cantillon effect which is theft. You want this lobbying solution? Use a money that can't have it's supply increased. (hint: there's only one and it's not a yellow rock)
EDIT: 61.8% of young people now adays are going to college and with a 2:1 female to male ratio (try being chaste in that environment), which makes sense when you take the top 62% of the intellectual bell curve, you get more of the mean IQ which women hover closer to and less of the lower extreme which men dominate. Imagine if debt wasn't profitable and only 5% of the young attended higher education, it would eliminate almost all women from this currently corrupt institution where they wouldn't be wasting away their most sexually valuable fertile years. This is just a $1.5 trillion dollar problem in the united states, we have $210T in unfunded liabilities that if we eradicated would completely cease the egalitarian problem mentioned so often in this podcast.
Every time I hear "leadership", it translates to "buy my course!"
This conversation needed TFM.
Yes it did.
What is TFM?
@pb9548 Turd Flinging Monkey. One of the OGs in the Manosphere, and someone who helped MGTOW out.
yup
i was thinking this the ENTIRE time
I find it interesting many of the points are derived from his philosophy
*Is he still on YT?*
I thought he left years ago?
Great show, diverse viewpoints. I'm a early MGTOW guy...we had to whisper in the shadows and try not to be beaten in the streets. Now, this is a conversation at the gym, on the job and now on the internet. A man has to be blind not to see the doom that comes from marriage and divorce. This is a multifaceted problem. My group of MGTOW men have been trying to figure it out for the past 10 years ...no solutions possible except tear everything down and start over. Until women need men for physical protection, food and shelter, we will continue down this road.
As someone who only turned to the philosophy in 206-17, I gotta say I'm glad I found it.
Most of the gentlemen I listen to have gotten stuff right.
In given scenario w0m3n are still nefarious, liers and terrible persons, they only use you to survive, virginity is off the window and telegony and microchimerism in "at the door".
Men need to be able to leverage her desolation to keep her? Men kinda suck.
That's right. There's no turning things around now. The institutions are corrupted. The children minds have been destroyed. And the modern day woman has revealed herself as a selfish liar/cheater. Society has to completely crumble and start over again.
You do realise MGTOW parallels feminism right? It’s the same thing. Women complaining about men and not wanting to get married - now men complaining about women and not wanting to get married . Both are a wrong retaliation. Both are wrong.
Calling mgtow a movement is one of the oldest false fails in the book. It's a philosophy.
Lol, call it what u want, it's all the same thing, its based on materialism and hedonism and is based in a subjective foundation, it can't justify morals or ought claims or truth or why we should care about truth or anything
@@kirerunte1046it's a blanket philosophy
@cnote3598 if objective truth exists then there is only 1 true philosophy that can justify morals and ought claims, a blanket philosophy is meaningless and when it's boiled down you get materialism and hedonism like every other philosophy but 1
@@kirerunte1046 multiple objective truths exist .. not acknowledging this is your blind spot. Paul did the mic drop at the end of the video.
@cnote3598 truth exists in general and truth in reality but if you want to understand a consistent worldview and theology and therefore philosophy it can only come from 1 true ideology, if multiple truths exist then tell me how something is true versus how something isn't true? Is 1+1=2 true along with 1+1=3? The laws of logic don't support ur incoherent claim
Guys, it has gotten so bad, you can safely assume there are no loyal women.
I'm one of those guys, a Chad or whatever, that all women are chasing, and I see no exceptions.
This needs to change, we can't keep society going this way.
How about stop using women for sex. That’s a start. We need more moral men. Stop expecting the morality to come from women.
You probably base your argument by thinking most women are like the top 1% attractive instagram models that most men want - BFFR most normal quiet girls are hopeless romantics…
We can all agree and see that most men are c0rn addicts ; which literally alters their brain chemistry to not be able to be a loyal and monogamous.
Women are loyal to their own desires, makes sense. Men of all backgrounds are raised to protect women and women are raised to protect themselves not men, so there is the foundation.
@@ObstaclestoOpportunities Yes. But women are unable to change, they are slaves to their emotions. The change has to come from men.
@@ObstaclestoOpportunitiestrue
Sorry Tim Gordon married a traditional Latin catholic mass woman who was spot on, on everything and we are still together but 12 years later have a sexless marriage and I am sole income earner(100k) and do most the house work. Women can change and goverment is there to protect them
They're delusional about women
Damn!...sorry to hear that man. Are you considering divorce?
Sorry bro ... I've been divorced fourteen years and still being fed to the meat grinder ! Definitely not easier after divorce . I miss my son the most .
@jeffsmith688 yupbwell 3 months ago she gave up her catholic faith to go off with someone else
@@finny3953 Sad 😔 Hope your doing better without her .
Tim is worthless on this panel. The others at least had some points, especially aaron and paul.
Who here knows these creators?.....Barbarossa, Stardusk, spetsnaz, TFM, ayam serius, dark night, mayor of mgtown.....so many more i cant recall just now.
RAVISHING RICK RUDE!
Marcel Enlightened, Hoard Dare, HappyHumbleHermit, TheSolitaryWolf, RPW, Groundwork for the Metaphysics of Mgtow, Liberation Y, Sunrise Hoodie and Colttaine... never forget Colttaine, the mgtow's Sherlock Holmes
OGs. Let's also not forget: Zed the Zen Priest
Liberation Y has passed away unfortunately.
Hammerhand might be one to bring on
Paul Proteas. R.I.P brother. Also Vention Mgotw R.I.P. brother.
Tim and Andrew seem out of touch with modern men. They misdefine their life conditions.
Either a man marries a woman, or he's absolutely useless.
There are clearly a lot of famous single men like Isaac Newton and Nicola Tesla that you're forgetting about.
Isaac Newton is also Christian as well. It's possible that a Christian man who upholds himself well biblically, but that also means holding women in a high standard as well, can't find a woman to settle down simply because he has high standards and majority of women don't meet his standards.
Also I think a reason why both Tim and Andrew both find it important to specifically talk to Mgtows and talk about men's rights, is because Andrew has 5 daughters and Tim has 6 daughters. It's not looking good for them when they can't find eligible men to get married and have offsprings with. Andrew talked a lot about out breeding the secularists but with his 5 daughters and the current state of society in which women are propped up and how crippled boys are treated in society I don't know if they are going to out breed the secularists. In the end, you have to make the system fair so that boys can be boys and they can develop into capable men in order for your daughters to find eligible men to have offsprings to begin with.
@@Cleffa168 Hitler was voluntarily celibate and became very disillusioned with Christianity later in his career.
@@Dunge0n - That's because he PAID the Catholic church for new birth certificates for his followers so that they could disappear and blend into the population with all new names. That's when he knew that the church was for sale.
Dont forget Leonardo DiCaprio and his dating record of finding a 21yo and dating them to 25. Rinse and repeat.
@@donteatpaintabsolute legend
I stepped on a mine in church, which blew my world up. I decided to try again, and all of the women I approach say the same line word for word- "I have a lot going on in my life, and I'm trying to get closer to God" Time to get away from church!
I’m a young Christian man doing his best to be faithful to God in all ways, but I refuse to marry just for the sake of it. More and more of todays women will ruin your life if you marry them. I’m praying God will put the right woman in my life at the right time but I will not marry just for the sake of it.
Talking with the very religious always ends the same way because they see their religion as the ultimate answer. That is literally what their faith means.
Correct, which is why talking to religious zealots is waste of time
Yeah you are probably right it’s too much dogmatism at times…
The problem is the lack of a morale framework and willingness to put duty over hedonism as led as here.
Some sort of universal moral system needs to be advocated for if you want society to prosper. If you don't want religion what do you propose?
And? This isn't even a point.
@@mitchrapp5214exactly, most in the red pill are to dumb to get that though. Lot of them are just as bad as the feminist the point at.
So good to see Paul Elam, my very first red pill I swallowed. Thank you for waking men from clowns of our society
This was a good video! Very informative for men.
Impressed that you got this panel.
This promises to be a great panel! I respect all of these guys … and Pearl of course! 😉
Pearl, I would have bought a ticket to hear you and this select panel converse. Great Job!
There is a video of a woman at the alter refusing to say she’d obey . I think the test holds firm .
I haven’t met a woman who would say she’d obey . Not a single one .
Well, they don't have to announce it. They just have to do it. By the time you ask a girl to marry you, you ought to know if she has good values. No self-respecting man will spend much time with a woman who won't submit to his will.
To become a MGTOW most men have either had children or made the decision to not have them.
And not get married. That's all.
@@TyranyFighterPatriotnot til after they finish their child support payments.
People think mgtow men are some young loser tennagers who cant get girls,those are blackpill dudes but mgtow is full of older men that got married and destroyed why would they go through the system again.
Aaron speaking facts.
This is so hopeful and refreshing. Thank you Pearl.
in this episode: a journalist and a philosopher entertainer tell working class men to lead their women and work harder... you can't make this shit up.
😂😂😂😂😂😂that part!
Absolutely an incredible podcast with highly informed individuals offering the real world solutions that everyone else is afraid of saying!
My son is 13, I lose sleep worrying about his options for a family.
follow andrew wilson, go to the true church early and find someone young so they can marry when they are 18, both need morals
@@veritasaeterna It would probably be better if he worked and waited a few years before trying to marry an 18 y/o woman. Relationships do a bit better when there is a bit of an age gap.
@@bli3366 perhaps, but its an uphill battle and ur most likely going to have to be with someone that has alot of issues cuz women like hedonism and money so the answer isnt very optmistic, hence why i argue for the younger the better
@@veritasaeterna You seem to misunderstand my point, which I thought was fairly clear... It is better for a man to wait a few years before marrying an 18 y/o woman. Or an 18 y/o girl should marry a man a few years older than herself. Two 18 y/os together lack any kind of experience, and the man can't guide his wife as the bible commands if he has no experience in life himself.
@@bli3366 i disagree, if kids and boys were working at 5 and had money and a house by 18, there would be no issue
MGTOW is largely survival. At its best it can be freedom, exploration, peace, contentment, higher state of consciousness, achievement, adventure, creativity etc. compare this to the meat grinder and slavery of gynocentric “society”.
Yeah so just the right wing version if "me me me me". Selfish as the left. You deserve to lose.
@@mrwhite2039typical tradcons.
There's more to life than just living for womens inner flesh.
Also greatest men that ever lived didnt live for women. They lived to make a name for themselves, which mgtow is supposed to be all about.
Only weak and pathetic men lived for womens validation and usually got none or unwanted women. Great men lived for greater cause, and womem were just byproducts they got on the side during their journey to their conquest.
Except those child support payments lol
The religious pannel members sound like they stumbled on to this yesterday.
Is he the one in the lower left? Tim, I think. He seems delusionally stubborn, and the type of guy who is always right until suddenly he is wrong because his wife divorces him, and then he is deeply broken
@ Winterascent
Bottom left and top right are religious commentators. That whole movement come across as completely out of their depth on these issues.
Wouldn't want to speculate why.
No. actually this was stumbled on centuries ago when people realized that “adhering” to doctrine that demanded morality, values, and discipline, was the foundation for strong cultures and healthy families. Nothing has changed about those necessities.
@ PatI-zg9gm
Right, not really addressing the point.
@@SA-vz7qi Completely agree
Wild to see this live. Shout out to Paul Elam and Aaron Clarey
@@Paul_ElamPaul I respect and admire your defense of mgtow but please don't claim to be mgtow because the 101 of mgtow is no marriage or cohabitation with females.
@@TyranyFighterPatriot it's so bad that pearl is doing a better job than paul.
@@JordanPetersonClips-ju9orIn fact I miss Colttaine he was so affective at hammering the point in.
Best birthday present listening to this. I’ve been waiting for this.
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂pathetic 😂😂😂😂😂😂
I like these big issue panel shows this is great work hitting upon the real issues happening in the world today.
I'm 6'1 , attractive by birth, was very fit and physically strong, yet the society depressed me, in economic opportunity, in peace, and told me that men were either worthless or the enemy. As a result I became overweight and gave up on being economically viable, due to these pressures.
You have to promote men for employment, for promotions, for scholarships. Money needs to go to men, and then we can recover. ✝️
Andrew is making fallacious claims about men's rights activists not having formed political lobbies. Dude needs to sit down, knows nothing of the history of such attempts. There have been heroic efforts at forming political lobbies, and political activism, for over a century - hundreds of thousands of attempts big & small - and they always get squashed by the gynocentric machinery. Even during the last decade there have been serious attempts, like Farrells WH council for men and boys, and hundreds of other initiatives which have all been clear about raising big funds....... funds which nobody wants to give to non-gynocentric men's initiatives. No one is paying for a war chest - not even screwed-over rich men, not Churches, not anyone. I hope Andrew educates himself before spouting mindless, made-up-on-the-spot claims. Makes a few reasonable points otherwise, which I can appreciate and get behind.
The missed point is that political change is downstream from culture - its the culture that must be targeted for change first..... and if that's successful, the lobbying and take-up by legislators will follow.
Day did try before and lose now we give up and go to the corner with daddy Paul 👶
I think now more men are aware of whats going on, the number is growing
@@Threelegs94 yep. And that's cause other men didn't give up. Unlike the mgtow defeatist
@mrwhite2039 we need them tho, we can't be doing infighting once we achieve our goal, I'm pretty sure if those guys see the marriage laws change and the landscape, most of them would change their minds
@@mrwhite2039 I encourage people to keep trying. But let's not fabricate bullshit about this never having been tried before. Andrew was having a moment of misplaced heroism when he assumed there was no one onto this before he arrived. I'm sure he has good intentions, but it's important to call men out when they get carried away with themselves in the way he did.
Paul Elam was the most interesting and informative guest by far. Tim Gordon’s passive aggressive attitude was disgraceful.
It is not about grace, class or sophistication. Get off your high horse, be grounded and pay attention to substance.
@@TomBombadil676Elam didn't have any strong arguments he's not even mgtow. Colttaine, Sandman, tfm or HappyHumbleHermit etc. Female nature is that actual mgtow focus and non if this has been brought up. These guys are facing level 1 bosses when they should be speaking with level 100
@@TyranyFighterPatriot yes but the comment doesnt adress substance
@@TomBombadil676Want substance? Allow me to refer Colttaine and HappyHumbleHermit to start.
@@TomBombadil676 what in particular did you think was of substance that I should have pay attention to?
Paul Elam and Aaron Clarey seem to be the wisest of the group. Maybe its because they are older.
They’re not polluted by religious zealotry
@@darbyohara Yeah, after I watched the podcast I came to the same conclusion.
no, the other two are just garbage human beings.
Christians are refusing to see that women don't like most men and can't really love you anyways
The two religious guys clearly have zero concept of what the average man is up against. The guy with the long hair is a spoon. Led with his credentials and got caught red-handed trying to strawman Paul Elam.
When it comes to modern relationships, it’s simple about Power, Control, and Manipulation in the West.
There’s a reason why you do not see this psychology and mentality in SE Asian cultures. In those cultures men and women compliment each other, not this competition “I’m just as good and better than You, watch me” type of mentality that’s destroyed relationships in the West. This is why Men are leaving for these countries.
Great points on the current state of relationships in western cultures from everyone on the panel. Thanks to Pearl and all the Guy in this very important subject.
woohoo best panel ever, sign me up for lobbying, im willing to pay im willing to sign lets get this moveing
Nah, east also has power, control, manipulation - the only difference is that the roles from which that is done are more differentiatd
its about simping
@@spiff1Ha! To put it simply 🎯
20 minutes in and Paul is the smartest and most sober man in the room.
The other guys are young, naive and full of enthusiasm. I'm not trying to be divisive.
Exactly he’s on another level
The religious view on this is basically summarized this way: "Men, come to church, do the things we say to do, the way we say to do them, and everything will work out." I call bullshit - from an experiential standpoint. Religion is just a cope, because nature will out, and you see that happening with women all over the west. Andrew and Tim are ridiculous - and props to Paul for asking the tough questions that the church guys couldn't answer.
I like how men can talk to each other and let someone finish what they have today before starting.
In a women's forum they shut overone another to get the floor and they often cut each other off
I can't keep track of what everyone is saying because I get a piece of information from woman #1 before woman #2 cut her off.
They tone/feelings police so much it makes me crazy
wohoo best panel ever! sign me up and take my money lets move this lobbying forward, im not even a citizen of the usa but heck its in my best for the social state in the usa to change because the usa influnces the whole world colturely
Glad to see someone who's not a migtow defeatist. We need more of you.
fuck that i have a l;ife to live and children i want to raise, got no time to be a defeatist
@@mrwhite2039
Every single time that women ever got the vote, the country turned into a welfare state within 10 years. Except for the states; that took 14 years. Women overwhelmingly vote for big brother, and they love redistribution of wealth. Stefan Molyneux used to talk about this often, before he got de-platformed.
They replace the husband with the government
Big sister is watching you
Tim is so full of himself. He’s the only person I’ve ever known (personally) who enjoys being unkind to people.
Not only that but he lies and conceals truth that may shine a negative light on himself.
What truth does he conceal?
Your comment is gone, what truth does he conceal again?
Critical Drinker "the message" 15:00 in the cast. lol love it.
Imagine the kind of marriages that Tim and Andrew are recommending MGTOW men pursue:
There they are at the wedding altar, hanging their heads with grim fatalism, saying to their brides-to-be, "Yes, I absolutely believe I have to get married, even though I don't want to, to do my part in perpetuating the species."
His fiance would slap him and angrily storm away!
😂
It would be insulting to her!
Then, Tim says MGTOW need to become priests. So, on threat of having to become a priest, I have to get married. And on threat of having to get married, I have to become a priest.
What bondage!
Excellent comment.
Also Better Bachelor did a video in which the statistics showed that among the divorced or separated adults, 74% are Christian. The numbers aren't looking good for Christians. Now I do have to say, 51% are protestants and 19% are Catholics, but the point remains is that the number of marriage worthy women are extremely low and the risk is too high.
In a recent stream from Andrew, he even said if he is single nowadays he probably would have stayed single because his standards are too high. So even he himself is agreeing on going his own way in this day an age.
@@Cleffa168 Oh yeah, thats right, I remember watching that video with BB but didn't know Andrew said that in another vid. It goes to show that sometimes mgtows biggest male critics can find themselves implementing the philosophy of going their own way without even realizing it.
@@menoyuno8430 It's from his live stream Thursday night on his crucible channel. It's not there either because he removed it or unlisted it. He usually removes his casual chatting/reacting/roasting streams and only keeps the more official debate streams on his channels. Maybe it's subscribers only, maybe it's removed idk.
And in some point I actually respect him for saying that because that means he agrees at least to a certain extent what men in general go through. It's just he also has 5 daughters and it's to their best interest that don't check out of the market his plan of "out breeding the secularists" won't go so well when he has 5 daughters and Tim has 6 and majority of men have checked out of the market. At least I respect him for agreeing with Pearl that we have to change the laws.
It's almost poetic justice that the two that push patriarchy the most, one has only daughters and one has 6 daughters and 1 son. So in order for them to help their daughters find eligible partners so they can continue breeding, they still have to face the problem that boys and men need to be treated fairly if not boys won't develop into capable eligible men for them or that eligible men would even consider marriage an option.
@@Cleffa168A lot of people identify as Christians who aren't in practice
The thing they're forgetting about MGTOW is that an awful lot of men get to MGTOW by getting married, having kids and getting put through the ringer. I don't bother dating anymore but I'm certainly not an absent father or out of the gene pool
This was a wonderful discussion! Yes to all of this .
1:22:17 Andrew with his "Women civilize men" nonsense
@Opener73The world needs more Christian men!
@@keerankenny4374 That’s why we need men to step up and lead.
It's always good to see Paul. The man is a treasure to all men.
He's the only one here IMO who cares about anyone but himself
Great discussion, I think the only person I really disagreed with was Tim. He's clearly the most hostile to MGTOW, the MRM, and the Red Pill community. His reasoning can easily be debunked by including the men who HAVE been married and have later turned to one of these communities, myself included. We're certainly not all never-married and childless, a great portion of us have already been there and done that.
His cheap provocations in saying stupid stuff like "tucking tail and running" are uncalled for. A great deal of us are making an informed decision predicated on a cost/rewards analysis, to not get involved, or re-involve ourselves, in marriage. I agree with Pearl that he is also very much naive to think he's so special that it is impossible for leftist ideology to creep into his family, and Pearl called that out perfectly.
what do you think ole timmy boi will do if his wife leaves him?
@@CDKV It would seem so. He's good at debating but he seems like a control freak. It makes sense.
So religious/religions cannot be misguided or corrupted according to Andrew. Wrong.
He’s a doofus
Very informed, well-spoken guests, edifying conversation. Thanks.
Exceptional discussion. Thank you all. Nicely done, Cappy
In early America, marriages were under the purview of the local Protestant church and the marital records were even kept there. The congregates were listed as witnesses of record to the marriage.
I do not understand the need to "replace" marriage with anything. Paul is the og, and I respect him greatly.
Ironically, I tend to associate with tradcons, but I can't argue with Paul's logic.
The response of checking out cannot be argued against. The two arguing for marriage cannot escape the FACT that women change. All their talk about vetting and sacrimental and church accountability is bullshit.
What is the church going to do in 10 years when your wife screws the neighbor? Nothing. They have zero power. So they excommunicate her... So what? He just lost his life and she gets a little public shame. Again, so what? She makes new friends and is fine in 2 months. He's ruined for years and years.
So what do we replace marriage with? Nothing. Why the contract? The contract is a government thing. Marriage used to be a religious thing. It's not anymore.
You want to be married? Call it pair bonded or something. Just don't sign a legal contract that gives power over your freedom, future and finances to the government.
There isn’t. That demand from Andrew is a deflection. Men decide individually whah they wanna replace it with. It’s not his place to demand a collective one
If that's how you think, you're right, I just wouldn't recommend your advice to real Christians.
@@J040PL7 I am a real Christian. It's advice for all men.
@@CroAglo you will know them by their fruits, and going against the first institution God created isn't a fruit of a Christian.
Calling him Lord isn't enough.
@J040PL7 God did not institute marriage. He certainly did not institute modern marriage.
I can't be the only one that thinks those 2 religious guys are full of crap..... there's no way I would waste my time trying to lead a woman that doesn't want to be lead.
Dang good video, gonna watch it again cause it was just loaded with so much info and discussion
Awesome panel! Got a lot of good perspective and reinforced good beliefs.
Andrew and Tim are being ratioed via the vast majority of comments. They are late to this subject and it shows
They both got their submissive unicorns.
The the probability that you will be betrayed is the prevailing point and i mourn it.
Exactly. Most modern women are going to betray you
That's something I think a lot of people miss. Men don't have a problem with risk or hardship as they with knowing everything rests on the whims of someone rewarded for betrayal.
I think having a tv reduces the amount of kids you have too.
because of the radiation?
ok boomer
Porn and video games also
I actually think if you have never served your country, whether it is in the military, police, firefighter, etc., you should not be allowed to vote.
voting is a scam but ok. tell me how is the military serving the country? they killed 4.5 million people in the middle east since 2000.
This guy on the bottom left lives in the land of "Should be" because he has (at least for now) a successful relationship and his attitude is, "It's not happening to me so not my problem! Men just need to 'man up"
This is why we say tradcons and feminism are two sides of the same coin
Neither care about you, either.
Feminism and red pill are two sides of the same coin.
@Pat-zg9gm OG Red Pill was understanding female nature, current Red Pill is about how to get laid.
2 very different things.
I'm 48 minutes in and I gotta say.... both Andrew and Tim don't seem to understand that MGTOW isn't about being a "player" or a "playboy," it's about growing as a Man and finding one's self without a woman.
Developing your mind, and heart so that you can be a honorable man, and have (as one MGTOW creator says) Morals, Ethics, Values and Principles.
When you have a government, and a society that actively hates you, and will actively try to destroy you, it does make you sit back and seriously ask ifnits worth it.
My personal story; I made a choice after 2014 when I got dumped by my last girlfriend, who was having an emotional affair (pretty sure she was also physically cheating) that I would never go through this again.... this is also after went through a false allegation back in highschool (2009-2010) with my first ex, and was cheated on with another chick a couple years after that.
To ignore actual stories from Men and say "MGTOW is bad because it's not Christian" is quite ridiculous, and also ignorant.
agreed
they needed TFM in this conversation
MGTOW is also about advising unmarried men to stay that way. and Andrew and Tim understand this and have reasons to object to this stance. though apparently they all agree that secular marriage should be avoided like the plague.
@0biwan7 While I agree with Andrew on some philosophical points about marriage, he really is missing the point. Tim is just speaking absolute nonsense. However, both seem to be saying something similar, which is "Men must get married" even in a non secular way.... which still doesn't change the fact that the women can take 3/4 of your stuff.
No men are reporting they are not happy because they can’t find a “good” woman. Not that they can’t find “a” woman. To Arnons point there are many married men who are in miserable marriages. Also to Pearls point a man who is miserable being alone would be even worse off if he was with one of these terrible women who are not marriageable.
Paul Elam is the only guy on this panel with any realistic view. Nobody is fixing this feminist clown world. Not for the next 150-200 years if at all. The other 3 guys are exceedingly naive and just show they have no clue. Point, blank, period.
Yeah but they helped Pearl get paid.
A truly great talk, and much to unpack. The key problem is one of Solidarity and Fraternity, and how doing away with such concepts has destroyed the nation. Women show tremendous solidarity and sorority. They will circle the wagons against even perceived attacks from outside. They will be proactive in fighting for what they want. Men, otoh, do exactly the opposite and think they're the noble ones. This is what I call the "Spirit of Adam" because Adam was the first simp.
Andrew is right that we need to start small and build up groups of men to advocate for men. Action wins, not reaction. One of the through-points on all of this, though, is that there has to be something for the men, some small little tidbit of carrot instead of all the stick they normally deal with. This is where Solidarity and Fraternity were once the balm to the weary souls of the men in the community.
In the early 1900's, when distances were great and travel was slow, as much as 25% of men were members of a local Fraternal Order. These men-only spaces were where the men of the community came together, commisserated each other, talked things out, made deals, and generally worked to keep their towns on an even keel. It was were the young boys learned by example and were guided into becoming young men who would one day take the reins of society.
In every single culture in the world, there was never talk about how "women are born with inherent value but men have to go out there and earn their value". This is automatically demeaning to men, and is 100% gynocentric propaganda that's pretty easy to see when you actually stop to think about it. It's stating that 99% of men have no value and never will because they haven't achieved some arbitrary level of success.... even though as Pearl often references, 99% of men are doing the work that keeps society functioning. In other words, even if a young boy never becomes some millionaire, you still very much need him to be a garbageman, doctor, engineer, janitor, mechanic, miner, etc. You need him every bit as much as you need any girl born. They both have inherent value because one literally cannot exist without the other.
Where we've gone wrong is in not honoring the men. What woman would want to be hitched to a "beta" when everyone knows that's a second-rate guy? How could we expect women to say they deserve something other than the best they can possibly get rather than "settling"?
In my own life experience, and I know a lot of guys feel the same way, it's one thing to have 100% of the women automatically arrayed against you, but really exhausting to see that 98% of other men are also constantly demeaning and belittling you. There's attacks from all sides, and never a hand up. You get told all about how you're not "doing your duty" or whatever, but as Paul noted... who decides what this duty is? If there is a duty, why aren't other men helping me to do that duty? Why don't I get accolades and acceptance and appreciation for the duty that I am doing?
Napoleon warned us of this when he rightly noted that, "An army marches on its stomach!" What he was pointing out was that while we all applaud the brave Cavalry and cheer for the proud warriors, we are blinding ourselves to the very real truth that those wonderful men couldn't do what they do if it wasn't for a long line of "unsung heroes" who make it possible -- the cooks, bottle-washers, drivers, tailors, cobblers, builders, etc.
In every single culture throughout history, we've seen boys guided and trained to become men. There were always fraternal orders, apprenticeships, and such things because it was understood that some boys would be good hunters or trackers or warriors, but others were more inclined to making bows and knapping stone points and crafting pottery. It was understood that all of those skills were vital to the society. One was not held up as higher than the others, and none were demeaned and belittled, made to seem like they were second-class because they weren't the "cool" guys.
I often point out that while I'm not as capable as a Green Beret, all those Green Berets can't do what I've spent a lifetime studying. And, when you think about it, we all need roofers and plumbers a lot more often in our lives than we do a warrior. I need the mechanic to fix my truck just as much as I need the cops who hunt down trouble-makers. You will need the nerdy computer tech to fix your laptop, but when's the last time you really needed a boxer to guard your back?
Where Western Society has gone wrong isn't in uplifting women with a slew of false narratives, but in demeaning men with a different false narrative. We talk about how men have a duty to society, which I agree with, but we forget that with that duty society there is also a key point that society (other men) have a duty to the men in the society. You cannot constantly ask something of someone without also offering them something in return.
This religious argument is as exhausting as ever. And the only one's to interrupt others. Here's men and Pearl has to say "let me finish."
This was an absolutely fantastic discussion! Best one I've seen in a long, long time. Paul Elam is 100% THE MAN on giving the best advice and solutions, and it showed here, especially at the very end. I do have a couple of criticisms of Andrew and Tim though. Pearl has previously broken down the hierarchy as God, Man, Woman, Child, in that order. Well, you might expand it to God, Government, Man, Woman, Child, Animals. But, there are many arguments that say religions are cults, just like Feminism is a cult. True, religions have been responsible for the creation of our civilizations, but they have also been responsible for the most heinous of crimes against humanity, such as being the catalyst of many wars, and for the butchering of baby boys' gentials - hundreds of millions of them - for no apparent reason. When territorial governments started to form, they were based around religious doctrines, so the governments endorsed the religions as their social enforcers. And that continues to this day. Governments control society behaviour with laws, legally enforced with violence from the police, and socially enforced by the Church. If you Remove God and religion, from the hierarchy, then the Government becomes the new god. Which is how and why, Tim and Andrew's arguments completely collapse at this point. God is simply a man-made story of someone who is leading you, always above or ahead of you. In other words, there is always someone who is the alpha, bigger, or stronger, or smarter than you, and you had better be careful if you confront that person. The God religion of an omnicient all-seeing entity looking down from the clouds that has never been seen or heard or communicated directly with, is just silly. This is also extremely toxic and harms hundreds of millions of people every day. Now, take God and religions away, a la John Lennon's "Imagine", and suddenly we awake from this mass delusion and can get on with being more productive with our lives, without being held back by false shame, such as looking at a woman! Towards the end, it is Andrew, to his credit, who says that it is the laws that have to be tackled first, which go right to the heart of our society's problems. The laws determine the society. If they are biased towards women, then men have no option but to take alternative courses in life, and that might include checking out of the relationship game. There is no shame or harm in that. At least they are not going to be responsible for the certain de*th of their children, by creating them, knowing they are eventually going to di*. Most men and women want to reproduce but the rules of the game have been skewed so badly, it's hard for any man to risk entering the game. The cause of this? Men, bowing to pressure to giving too much ground to women in law making, such as the recent h*te-crime laws in Scotland for which the leader, Humza Yousuff had to resign in disgrace. Meritocricy and integrity must return to raise society's standards in the west. You do this only by electing common-sense, good quality leaders, that is, if you can find any you can trust!
I'm still at the beginning of the video, but it sounds like Tim is saying that if a husband doesn't achieve a perfect husbandly leadership score, and then his wife leaves him, then it's the husband's own fault.
Has there ever been a perfect husband? Can there be?
Of course not. Perhaps the wife, also, has responsibilities before the Lord to honor her husband. (Eph 5:33, 1 Peter 3:5-6, etc.)
I haven't heard him say that yet but; I've seen him push that narrative in other videos.
Good strawman. Are you a liberal?
I'm pretty familiar with Tim (and Andrew) & I like them, and do think they are consistent regarding Biblical duties for not just husbands but wives also.
That being said, even in the more traditional Orthodox & Catholic churches, their preists will not orient their sermons around wives truly submitting to husbands (Ephesians 5:22,), older women having a duty to teach younger women (Titus 2:3-5), wives having a responsibility and obligation even to unbelieving or wayward husbands (1 Peter 3:1-2). They'll also neglect how God punished Eve separately due to Eve's own choices (see Genesis 3:16). You will never hear from these feminist priests that disobedience & rebelliousness originated inside the mind of Eve first, for example. Only "Adam man bad" exegesis
They won't talk about the manipulative Proverbs 7 woman who was a harlot.
In 1 Corinthians 7:5 - they don't emphasize the importance of a wife not sexually depriving her own husband.
It's largely just high standards on men & infinite "get out of jail free" cards for women. This is not genuine traditional patriarchy. I'm all for high standards for men & husbands but ONLY if there are high standards for women & wives also.
Oh & a definite argument for women veiling in church can be made additionally by St Paul in Corinthians. Can't call out inappropriately dressed women at church though, that's the "based & trad" patriarchal thing to do nowadays obviously, just let it slide right in like the serpent I suppose
@@mrwhite2039 It's not a straw man. Later in the video Gordon in typical fashion describes in detail the problem is: "Men are not leaders, etc etc etc." And Clarey responded (I'll paraphrase) : "We're asking a lot of 22 year old men; where they're told they're the cause of everything bad in America, there's no jobs, they can barely support themselves, and they need to be able to support a family, de-program modern women from feminist indoctrination, etc, when only 3% are marriage material - Men will do what corporations do, go overseas for a good woman.
- The point is, Gordon is partially correct; men need to be leaders. Men need to require submission of their wives. Where he is wrong is in his rejection of reality.
Men of the WWII generation didn't demand or require submission, women were naturally more submissive due to lack of feminist indoctrination.
Men of the WWII generation raised the baby boomers i.e. the worst generation in recent history.
The baby boomers raised generation X the lost generation.
Men have not been taught to require submission from their wives in over 100 years.
23 year olds are not going to figure it out on their own.
We - The Men who figured this out need to teach them and lead by example.
Not blame them for not knowing this.
@@thaimuayshoo1171 Excellent points. These guys are unaware of how much gynocentric programming they have assimilated. You are obviously free. Congrats.
Women will only change when they have to deal with the accountability of their own decisions. Since accountability is a womens kryponite, I don't see that happening anytime soon.
Aaron’s point at 1:11 was a banger. Spot on.
Men and women are barely the same species.