Oh Stephe, you are the BEST! It is so damn refreshing to see honest reviews on products. I think the Decware would be PERFECT for speakers that are ultra efficient, like the Klipsch La Scala where you would realistically need 1/5th of a watt.
Cult status, "The emperor has no clothes", group think, histrionics. Your clear cut, empiricism, coupled with your knowledge of the topology and subjective assessment makes this so thoroughly enjoyable and informative. Thank You for your work.
After everything I'd heard in the press I was pretty underwhelmed who want a friend brought this over and we hooked it up in my system powering some Klipsch fortes... I think your review is pretty spot-on, it is definitely a nicely built limited application device.
I appreciate your videos and insight. I have a few Deckware amps and components (and I love them) as well as other brands. I have a version se84ufo hooked up to some la scalas Al5s (And yes I used a set of tel 212/sx subs), and it’s my to go system for night listening. I listen to music at that time well under 78 decibels. One thing I have learned over the years of this audio journey is that we all have different tastes, and while measurements are very important they are just part of the equation for me. At the end of the day we like what we like and an honest reviewer is greatly appreciated, even if I disagree on her personal tastes in this example. For what ever it’s worth, I liken some of the older pioneer amps that also get poor measurements in comparison with modern amps. I appreciate your honest reviews.
So again, this is a VERY special use case, insanely efficient speakers, listened to a night at low volume levels. I specifically said in this sort of use case (using less than one watt) it would work well. The measurements support what you are saying...
There is a big difference between an amp that has 8% THD at 2W (and only has reasonable THD well under 1W) and most other tube amps I have listened to. My 6BM8 2W amp sounds fine with 88db speakers at 85ish db in room listening levels, this decware doesn't. And no, tube amps in general are not only for very special use cases i.e. 100db speakers at low volume levels like this amp is. Most can be used for general audio use with normal sensitivity speakers. I get you are enamored with this amp and for the use case you presented, I agreed this amp would sound nice. The measurements you say aren't important support this as well. What else are you expecting me to say, that all tube amps are this limited in use? Because that just isn't true.
Nice review!! You are dead on with this little amp. I’m more of a speaker Guy. I can’t help myself I just love fooling around with old vintage speakers an horns, building cabinets out of plywood for them. I don’t always hit a home run with my builds, but I’m always looking for a combination that takes about 1/2 watt. I have to say the little original Darling Amp with Big Iron is Light Years above the ZEN. I do have both Amps with Big Output Transformers, running about a 1/2 watt. I guess it’s all subjective 🤷🏻♂️. I love your channel, and I do know one thing. Your the BEST 🌹
Great review 👍 It Reminds me the book "the emperor's new clothes " were nobody notice the the emperor is naked except of a little boy that shouted the emperor is naked 😄
Hi Stephe, Thanks for the great videos on the Decware amp. My diy clones I made many years ago have aftermarket and different value output tx’s than the original and as I mentioned to you I made a few other mods. Like your review amp it does get nasty if you turn it past a certain point. I listen to mostly acoustic, not too busy music in the 70-80 db range and it sounds sweet. Don’t laugh, they sound as great with my 2 pairs of vintage speakers, Rectillinear 3 and Energy 22 Connisseur at around 86-87 sensitivity but my favorite are my Magnepan MG 1 at 5 ohm which I never would have guessed could sound so good🕺. Keep up the great work and keep it fun. Marc in Ottawa.
I wonder if edcor transformer that allow ultralinear connection that you used in some of your projects would give a more usable 2w of power?I ask as I'm preparing to build a similar amp el84 -6dj8 to compare to a 45-6sn7amp.any transformer recommendation would be appreciated.i have ham 125ese that have a variety of secondary tap but no ul.tap on the primary.this review has got me thinking about adding the ul option to my build.very informative and realistic review.
@@SkunkieDesignsElectronics thanks for bringing the rh 84 to my attention.i looked at the original and revised schematics and it appears to be pentode output w schade feedback instead of global.i think I have the tubes and iron to build one.still thinking about an ultralinear el84 se.ihave some 807 and 1625s . maybe build something with those similar to your project amp w kt88(adjust for the tubes smaller dissipation). lots of winter experiments to do!
Stephe, I love all your videos and you are doing an excellent job.👍🏻 But personally I think it doesn’t make sense to dive in and fight the subjective stuff. And of course you do not need to justify yourself. Stay on the objective path.
I have never actual heard a decware in person... but know some people really love them. So can't we just accept that (subjectively and objectively) we humans like, want, make and buy into different (even completely opposing) things - in regards to pretty much every aspect of life! Like who and what makes us happy or sad, or? ..or what products, cars, vehicles, homes, tech and hobbies we like or not etc! Which of course others may or may not like, and visa versa! ....and as such there is no real "right or wrong" or "better or worse" ...but instead the wonder and confusion of endless options, choices and then our conflicting opinions about them! ....But all that really matters is what make us personally happy! And therefore hopefully not get caught up in all the pointless games of judging, dismissing or beating up on others for having different views and opinions to ourselves. (Unless harmeful of course) As I know loads of people who like or play music ...and some love old gear, others new, some like finding cheap "bang for bucks" kit and others have hyper expensive setups! Some like warm sounds, some cold and others neutral or somewhere inbetween! So in reality as long as people are happy and honest with themselves and what rhey have...there should be no need for all the silly and pointless "them verses us or me" nonsense - especially for those who choose to be reviewers ...as they should already know this and just want to give their honest personal opinion about gear! ....As personally, it gets real tiring, pointless, and childish listening to people dissing others for having different values, tastes and opinions. As it seems - looking at the Decware website - that they are a humble "old school" niche company with a very purist type of approach, circuit designs and steady refinement/evolutions processes... who have built a following of people or customers who seem to truly love their products, sounds, ethos, aporoach and of course compromises...and as you mentioned before making and selling amps is not an easy or cheap process... especially for individuals and smaller companies..but decware have been doing it for many decades...so good on them! As going off track ...I have a friend who waited many years to get a Morgan plus 8 car ... it's design, it's looks, performance and handling are interesting and compromised when compared to modern sports cars ...but for some people they just have "that thing" that truly connects, makes them happy, smile and bring joy (even though flawed in many ways)....which like Decware I am happy and glad they are there, doing their thing and making products that make some people smile!
Sure and I accept some people adore these things. I'm just trying to clarify what this amp is and what it isn't. I don't understand why that is so offensive to some people...
The amp's useful scope is narrow. Decware makes this clear, if you read carefully. If you want to fill a medium-size living room with rock or pop at a good volume -- not rocking the world but yeah, pretty loud -- the amp is going to sound anemic with most speakers you can easily buy. It's like feeling the limits of your car's engine at 80 mph. You won't drive that fast very often, but you still don't want to hear the engine straining at that speed. What you need for this amp is true 96dB+ sensitivity. Decware basically indicates this too, but they are dealing with a world where most people who buy their amps don't have or can't afford REALLY sensitive speakers. Andrew Robinson's review sent Decware's popularity into the stratosphere but he was listening on a Klipsch heritage speaker, duh. 100 dB sensitivity etc.
Like one commenter said they disagree with my findings because they use this amp with 100db+ speakers, specifically to listen to music in the evening at 78db levels. Uh, like I very specifically said in that sort of use case, this amp will sound great!
Decware has a wide variety of SE and PP amps at a range of powers. UFO series (@2w), Rachael/Sarah (@4-7w), Torri series (@20-25w), ZMA (@40w). Yes, 1-2w may be too low for many applications and this discussed in great detail on the Decware website and forums. Skunkie Designs probably should have been evaluating the Rachael ($1800) for their purposes. Steve Deckert recommends that customers call him directly to discuss amp selection.
It's not worth what they cost, there are a few out there that are better with more power. I built the Blueglow KT88 amp cheaper and it has better numbers and power.
The price kills it for me. I just think that a less than a "usable" watt per channel amp should be around $400 or $500, maybe $600 tops, but not twice that. Sorry, no dice, not happening.
@@SkunkieDesignsElectronicsfrom my understanding they don’t send them amplifiers, they had to buy and wait for them too, at least Andrew Robinson and Steve Gutenberg had to buy and wait for them too, I’m gonna buy one to test how they send and I’m gods design a clone one to see how to better its design haha. I’m curious as to what the hype is and I’m fortunate enough to have access to some efficient Fleetwood sound deville’s
Steve Deckert must be a hater too, his video came to the same conclusions and measurements. It's a 0.5-1W amp. What this amp actually is has been blown out of proportion by Decware Fan boys.
Oh Stephe, you are the BEST! It is so damn refreshing to see honest reviews on products. I think the Decware would be PERFECT for speakers that are ultra efficient, like the Klipsch La Scala where you would realistically need 1/5th of a watt.
Exactly! I'm not sure why this is even controversial. And the measurements show this too.
Hats off to you. It is so refreshing to hear an unfiltered opinion.
Thank you Stephe for another really good series. Your approach is very admirable.
Cult status, "The emperor has no clothes", group think, histrionics. Your clear cut, empiricism, coupled with your knowledge of the topology and subjective assessment makes this so thoroughly enjoyable and informative. Thank You for your work.
After everything I'd heard in the press I was pretty underwhelmed who want a friend brought this over and we hooked it up in my system powering some Klipsch fortes... I think your review is pretty spot-on, it is definitely a nicely built limited application device.
I appreciate your videos and insight. I have a few Deckware amps and components (and I love them) as well as other brands. I have a version se84ufo hooked up to some la scalas Al5s (And yes I used a set of tel 212/sx subs), and it’s my to go system for night listening. I listen to music at that time well under 78 decibels. One thing I have learned over the years of this audio journey is that we all have different tastes, and while measurements are very important they are just part of the equation for me. At the end of the day we like what we like and an honest reviewer is greatly appreciated, even if I disagree on her personal tastes in this example. For what ever it’s worth, I liken some of the older pioneer amps that also get poor measurements in comparison with modern amps. I appreciate your honest reviews.
So again, this is a VERY special use case, insanely efficient speakers, listened to a night at low volume levels. I specifically said in this sort of use case (using less than one watt) it would work well. The measurements support what you are saying...
@@SkunkieDesignsElectronics tubes in general are a very special use case, specially when dealing an output power of 2 watts , are they not?
There is a big difference between an amp that has 8% THD at 2W (and only has reasonable THD well under 1W) and most other tube amps I have listened to. My 6BM8 2W amp sounds fine with 88db speakers at 85ish db in room listening levels, this decware doesn't. And no, tube amps in general are not only for very special use cases i.e. 100db speakers at low volume levels like this amp is. Most can be used for general audio use with normal sensitivity speakers.
I get you are enamored with this amp and for the use case you presented, I agreed this amp would sound nice. The measurements you say aren't important support this as well. What else are you expecting me to say, that all tube amps are this limited in use? Because that just isn't true.
I respect your opinion. I have wondered about this amp ever since I found it.
Excellent review Steph!
I love your videos and your common sense.
My respect
Nice review!! You are dead on with this little amp.
I’m more of a speaker Guy.
I can’t help myself I just love fooling around with old vintage speakers an horns, building cabinets out of plywood for them.
I don’t always hit a home run with my builds, but I’m always looking for a combination that takes about 1/2 watt.
I have to say the little original Darling Amp with Big Iron is Light Years above the ZEN.
I do have both Amps with Big Output Transformers, running about a 1/2 watt.
I guess it’s all subjective 🤷🏻♂️.
I love your channel, and I do know one thing. Your the BEST 🌹
thanks for the honest review and test results.
Love your opinions & your reasons for them.
Great review 👍
It Reminds me the book "the emperor's new clothes " were nobody notice the the emperor is naked except of a little boy that shouted the emperor is naked 😄
Hi Stephe,
Thanks for the great videos on the Decware amp.
My diy clones I made many years ago have aftermarket and different value output tx’s than the original and as I mentioned to you I made a few other mods. Like your review amp it does get nasty if you turn it past a certain point. I listen to mostly acoustic, not too busy music in the 70-80 db range and it sounds sweet. Don’t laugh, they sound as great with my 2 pairs of vintage speakers, Rectillinear 3 and Energy 22 Connisseur at around 86-87 sensitivity but my favorite are my Magnepan MG 1 at 5 ohm which I never would have guessed could sound so good🕺.
Keep up the great work and keep it fun.
Marc in Ottawa.
Yup if you are using under 1W of power, I'm sure they sound nice.
Great review!
Thanks!
Hi Stephe ! If you can try a listen to a Luxman MQ-88uC.. sounds great
Nice series!
Thanks!
In my system in my room it has no syrup! 😊
I wonder if edcor transformer that allow ultralinear connection that you used in some of your projects would give a more usable 2w of power?I ask as I'm preparing to build a similar amp el84 -6dj8 to compare to a 45-6sn7amp.any transformer recommendation would be appreciated.i have ham 125ese that have a variety of secondary tap but no ul.tap on the primary.this review has got me thinking about adding the ul option to my build.very informative and realistic review.
I'm probably going to build that RH84 amp at some point, which might deliver more/cleaner power.
@@SkunkieDesignsElectronics thanks for bringing the rh 84 to my attention.i looked at the original and revised schematics and it appears to be pentode output w schade feedback instead of global.i think I have the tubes and iron to build one.still thinking about an ultralinear el84 se.ihave some 807 and 1625s . maybe build something with those similar to your project amp w kt88(adjust for the tubes smaller dissipation). lots of winter experiments to do!
Stephe, I love all your videos and you are doing an excellent job.👍🏻
But personally I think it doesn’t make sense to dive in and fight the subjective stuff.
And of course you do not need to justify yourself.
Stay on the objective path.
2 year waiting list for this amp.
Yup
I have never actual heard a decware in person... but know some people really love them. So can't we just accept that (subjectively and objectively) we humans like, want, make and buy into different (even completely opposing) things - in regards to pretty much every aspect of life!
Like who and what makes us happy or sad, or? ..or what products, cars, vehicles, homes, tech and hobbies we like or not etc! Which of course others may or may not like, and visa versa!
....and as such there is no real "right or wrong" or "better or worse" ...but instead the wonder and confusion of endless options, choices and then our conflicting opinions about them! ....But all that really matters is what make us personally happy!
And therefore hopefully not get caught up in all the pointless games of judging, dismissing or beating up on others for having different views and opinions to ourselves. (Unless harmeful of course)
As I know loads of people who like or play music ...and some love old gear, others new, some like finding cheap "bang for bucks" kit and others have hyper expensive setups! Some like warm sounds, some cold and others neutral or somewhere inbetween! So in reality as long as people are happy and honest with themselves and what rhey have...there should be no need for all the silly and pointless "them verses us or me" nonsense - especially for those who choose to be reviewers ...as they should already know this and just want to give their honest personal opinion about gear!
....As personally, it gets real tiring, pointless, and childish listening to people dissing others for having different values, tastes and opinions.
As it seems - looking at the Decware website - that they are a humble "old school" niche company with a very purist type of approach, circuit designs and steady refinement/evolutions processes... who have built a following of people or customers who seem to truly love their products, sounds, ethos, aporoach and of course compromises...and as you mentioned before making and selling amps is not an easy or cheap process... especially for individuals and smaller companies..but decware have been doing it for many decades...so good on them!
As going off track ...I have a friend who waited many years to get a Morgan plus 8 car ... it's design, it's looks, performance and handling are interesting and compromised when compared to modern sports cars ...but for some people they just have "that thing" that truly connects, makes them happy, smile and bring joy (even though flawed in many ways)....which like Decware I am happy and glad they are there, doing their thing and making products that make some people smile!
Sure and I accept some people adore these things. I'm just trying to clarify what this amp is and what it isn't. I don't understand why that is so offensive to some people...
Hi Steph, if you were to put your dummy 8ohm loads in parallel would you be able to test (at least one channel) at 4 ohms?
Yeah but I think the 6 ohm load showed what I expected, lower ohms = lower reflected impedance and more distortion.
The amp's useful scope is narrow. Decware makes this clear, if you read carefully.
If you want to fill a medium-size living room with rock or pop at a good volume -- not rocking the world but yeah, pretty loud -- the amp is going to sound anemic with most speakers you can easily buy. It's like feeling the limits of your car's engine at 80 mph. You won't drive that fast very often, but you still don't want to hear the engine straining at that speed.
What you need for this amp is true 96dB+ sensitivity. Decware basically indicates this too, but they are dealing with a world where most people who buy their amps don't have or can't afford REALLY sensitive speakers.
Andrew Robinson's review sent Decware's popularity into the stratosphere but he was listening on a Klipsch heritage speaker, duh. 100 dB sensitivity etc.
Like one commenter said they disagree with my findings because they use this amp with 100db+ speakers, specifically to listen to music in the evening at 78db levels. Uh, like I very specifically said in that sort of use case, this amp will sound great!
Decware has a wide variety of SE and PP amps at a range of powers. UFO series (@2w), Rachael/Sarah (@4-7w), Torri series (@20-25w), ZMA (@40w). Yes, 1-2w may be too low for many applications and this discussed in great detail on the Decware website and forums. Skunkie Designs probably should have been evaluating the Rachael ($1800) for their purposes. Steve Deckert recommends that customers call him directly to discuss amp selection.
I didn't select this amp, a viewer sent it to me to review.
❤👍🏻
It's not worth what they cost, there are a few out there that are better with more power. I built the Blueglow KT88 amp cheaper and it has better numbers and power.
The price kills it for me. I just think that a less than a "usable" watt per channel amp should be around $400 or $500, maybe $600 tops, but not twice that. Sorry, no dice, not happening.
You don’t understand marketing. 😂
Some folks are clearly good at it!
It’s marketing !
Decware doesn't do marketing. They make 40 amps per month and aren't looking to expand.
Sending amps to influencers is marketing...
@@SkunkieDesignsElectronicsfrom my understanding they don’t send them amplifiers, they had to buy and wait for them too, at least Andrew Robinson and Steve Gutenberg had to buy and wait for them too, I’m gonna buy one to test how they send and I’m gods design a clone one to see how to better its design haha. I’m curious as to what the hype is and I’m fortunate enough to have access to some efficient Fleetwood sound deville’s
hater
Steve Deckert must be a hater too, his video came to the same conclusions and measurements. It's a 0.5-1W amp.
What this amp actually is has been blown out of proportion by Decware Fan boys.