Beth Moore's New Denomination (From SBC to ACNA)
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- Опубликовано: 15 янв 2022
- Beth Moore was a longtime part of the Southern Baptist Convention, and now she attends an Anglican Church. What might she be experiencing differently in this new denomination?
Absolutely wonderful explanation of the differences between the churches. Very easy to understand and I love the unbiased view of the speaker.
You give a lot of information and can be hard to keep up with. Appreciate how much you have to put into these presentations.
I slow down the playback speed.
Extremely well presented. Because you are a fast speaker (excellently done) and cover so much detailed material, I highly recommend the use of subtitles. Overall, thank you ! ! ! (from AUSTRALIA)
As a Southern Baptist who is actually in the process of moving to the ACNA, I can agree with Moore that the liturgic style did grab me as well right off the bat.
So you have no issue with infant baptism then? It never ceases to amaze me how quickly some people will abandon their principles based on "style." And please understand, I believe that true Anglicans are within orthodoxy, I just cannot see anywhere in Scripture where infants are baptized (there are other distinctives). Only believers. And both Anglicans and Presbyterians will admit this. I have listened to their arguments, even from the likes of a great man like RC Sproul and find them contorted justifications at best. As a Reformed Baptist (and of Jewish heritage) myself, I have more in common with them than many in the SBC that reject the Doctrines of Grace, but while I can fellowship with them, I would not leave my church because of its style unless there was gross error involved (e.g. Steven Furtick's - his church is a SBC member and should be kicked out for his heresies). If ACNA is allowing women to be ordained, then it is on a dangerous and slippery slope.
@@MikeHammer1 First, where did I say that I was making this transition solely due to "style"? I said it was the first thing that grabbed my attention. The points that have really led to my realignment are study into classical forms of Protestantism & a conviction on the Real Presence in the Supper. I am a life long Baptist, and the what got me reading into Church history at the beginning was the slapdash & almost afterthought manner which most Baptist churches treat the Supper. And hermeneutically, just throwing off infant baptism as simply "baptizing babies" is extremely intellectually dishonest. It really comes down to the belief on what baptism actually does (or doesn't do) with infant baptism being a by product of a certain belief. I will be honest, baptism is something that I'm still struggling with in my journey, and I believe in fairness of study, not just relying on Anglican sources but also Baptist and even Lutheran sources in conjunction with my own Bible reading and prayer to come to where I land. Furthermore, I must confess, the reformed resurgence in the SBC has also had a profound impact on my wanting to leave. While obviously not characterizing ALL Calvinists of course, but reformed baptist tend to be some of the most theologically arrogant and dismissive people I have encountered, even the reformed Anglicans I interact with come to theological discussions with a far more loving spirit than the RBs I know.
@@novadawg6913 First, please don't take personal offense to what I wrote. I was responding to what you wrote in a public forum which consisted of a mere three points:
1. You were a Baptist
2. You are moving to the ACNA
3. You agreed with Moore (who is IMHO, a heretic and divisive) on the ACNA liturgic style
This is all that I had to go on, and it raised concerns over the direction you were headed in. So in a sense, in the absence of other information (which you have now clarified) style was the only thing that you actually chose to define, which led me to believe this might be your primary rationale. Second, while my wording was intended to include you as possibly in that category, I did refer to the more general "people" not you specifically.
So lets look at your subsequent comments in light of your objection to mine. You made a personal attack on the "Slapdash" way that "most" Baptist" churches treat communion. First, show me your data to justify your assertion. I can tell you that "most" of the Baptist churches I have attended have treated communion with utmost respect, but I have also seen the opposite. OTOH, the three largest mainstream churches (ELCA, PCUSA and the Episcopal/Anglican church) are all apostate allowing homosexual membership and even leadership, promoting abortion and the ordination of women all of which are expressly forbidden in Scripture.
Next, I did not just "throw off" infant baptism. I did correctly assert that there is not a single example of it in the bible. Prove me wrong. The churches that practice infant baptism use a hermeneutic that I disagree with as it is very close to how Rome justifies Mariolatry. That said, if you were reading carefully, I do not consider this distinction to be a cause for separation, but you chose to call me "intellectually dishonest" which is an Ad Hominem attack.
Next, you attack those who are Reformed, and specifically those who are Baptistic and claim its resurgence is a "profound" reason for wanting to leave the SBC. Since you are interested in Church history are you not aware that up until the mid 19th century Reformed Theology was dominant in the USA. It wasn't till Dispensationalism came about that things changed. The SBC was Calvinistic originally, it is only recently that that it has become more acceptable, primarily due to the work of individuals like Al Mohler that it has returned to its Calvinistic roots. And while you claim to not characterize all those who believe that the Doctrines of Grace are Scriptural you follow that with the assertion that Reformed Baptists "tend" to be theologically arrogant and dismissive, another Ad Hominem. I originally thought that TULIP was heretical myself, but after studying the distinctions between the Reformation and the Remonstrance, I found that latter comes up short because it undermines the sovereignty of God. Despite this, I still consider most people who believe in prevenient grace to be among the Brethren. OTOH I personally have been called a heretic for my adherence to the Reformation and all you have to do to see the vitriol coming from anti-Calvinists here on RUclips to realize that that accusation goes both ways. In fact, though I have not specifically found any arrogant and dismissive Calvinists on RUclips, please show me a few for my edification. And for your edification I would direct you to Dr. James R. White, Todd Friel and Dr. John MacArthur for examples of those who support TULIP and openly fellowship with those who don't.
@@MikeHammer1 What heresy does Moore hold to?
@@novadawg6913 I totally understand. I was a reformed baptist and left to join the ACNA. The Calvinists in the ACNA I have met are worlds a part from the five pointers in baptists circles. The funny thing is Anglicanism is more reformed in every sense of the word than any southern or reformed baptist can lay claim to…
Very interesting topic, Joshua. Thank you 🌹🌹🌹
I appreciate how you attempt to give an honest and evenhanded summary of different denominations, allowing the hearer to evaluate the information. If I might be so bold, I REALLY wish your information and videos could be widely used in seminaries, or that you yourself could teach. We desperately need intelligent, self-controlled, informed, and logical young men to teach other would-be pastors. Unfortunately, many of our seminary graduates leave with a very misinformed and biased idea about what other denominations teach/believe, and even a hatred for those who believe differently than they. Sometimes if we understand WHY people believe what they do according to their different meta-narrative, then, even if we do not personally accept their theology, we will at least have more respect for them. Then we can have profitable conversations without the "you're a hell-bound heretic" being thrown around so much.
100% agreed. I was raised and confirmed Episcopal. Became pentecostal (AG) at 21 with immersion Baptism. I have served and been trained in other denominations and interdenominational churches. Not one time did anyone in my leadership ever outline the differences between the churches in our own areas of belief, let alone discuss Arminian or Calvinist stances. This is a HUGE disservice to many laymen, congregants and even leadership. We must be educated on the differences in doctrines, practices and beliefs for the benefit of our own communities of faith. After serving and being trained in ministry for more than 20+ years (including seminary) it is really sad that I must educate myself through means like RUclips (although I am eternally grateful). It is now my obligation to educate our brothers and sisters whenever I have the opportunity. God is sovereign and once again I am humbled and feel motivated to fulfill the Great Commission. 🙏🏻
I'm in the ACNA. My first response to this was "Who on earth is Beth Moore?"
I'm not in the ACNA and that was my first reaction too. 😂
Indeed.
She is a big name in evangelicalism.
Just Google her, it won't take you long to figure out who she is.
I understand your feeling. I'm always annoyed when someone gets name-dropped in media as if you should be completely familiar with them and you've never heard the name before. I had this experience with Beth Moore--and Elon Musk, as well. You'd think there'd be some introduction of who this person is when you first start hearing about them.
The bottom line will be who knows Jesus, not what denomination we are from. Jesus explained in the sheep/goats passage many will say didn't we do all these things for You, and Jesus will say to some they never knew Him. So when we are in Glory, we will see many from all kinds of denominations, every nation and ethnicity. Our trust should be in Christ, not a denomination. I love Beth's teaching and have taken most of her Bible studies. She brings Scripture to life and that is what has blessed me along my life journey.
Amen!
Beth Moore brings too much of SELF into her teachings. When I read the same Scriptures Beth teaches, they have a different message than she claims. When I hear others teach the same Scriptures, they are not the same as what Beth teaches. This was consistent to the point, I now won't listen to Moore teach Scriptures at all.
And her social media commentary is angry, judgemental, and harsh toward others. But she whines and expects to be handled with tenderness by others. Basically, she joins the ungodly mob and trounces on people in the fury of the moment before all the facts are known. And she never apologizes when the dust clears and it is proven the mob overreacted, as usual. It's as if Beth Moore is trying to please the ungodly masses rather than seeking to please Jesus. If she truly knew Him and His word, she would be an example of wisdom, restraint, and self-diiscipline, rather than leading the charge into condemning innocent people.
@@sandigrace2271If you don't care for Beth's style or it offends you, you need not listen to it but slandering others who are seeking to help people in their walk with Jesus is harsh. We are supposed to edify others, not tear them down. That's what grace is about. Beth is the first person to admit she isn't perfect. She is one of the most authentic teachers I've ever heard and her studies have helped me in my own walk to know the Lord better at a time in my life when I needed Biblical support and understanding. Women need to understand Scripture like never in our history as our culture is losing the value of the importance of family and Biblical values. It is helpful to some women to hear the personal examples of how Scripture has helped another. Jesus told the woman at the well....go tell the others of all that God has done for you. Personally I believe Beth is grounded in Scripture and I haven't heard any false claims but simply a genuiness to share her life that is to me almost unprecedented. To me she is the real deal. I'm not here to argue with others about what you like or don't like because we all have a different story, a different testimony to share. We all have different styles and teachers who are more or less our "cup of tea". Let us hear your testimony of all that God has done in your life and we will be glad to hear it and perhaps be blessed as well. God is good all the time. It's all about Him anyway, where He's at work, not about Beth. She is just a bold, bright torch for Jesus as far as I can tell willing to serve the "masses" as you say. Do we not have better ways of using our time than to batter others trying to make a difference in this depraved world. Many are suffering and have no idea to get out of their bondage. Many need Jesus and I applaud anyone who is putting herself out there to try and make a difference, even if they can't please everyone. We can never please everyone but we can aim to be pleasing to God. He is the vindicator and judge. The book of Hebrews tells us all is laid bare before God's eyes and it is to Him we will all give account.
@@sharonpeck88 We are to warn others of false teachers. Beth Moore does not teach the Bible genuinely or honestly. I'm truly very sorry you have been fooled by her act. Look to Jesus and God's Word, not to a person. Praying for you.
@@sandigrace2271 I guess we can agree to disagree on the idea of what is false. We are all entitled to an opinion. I wish you blessings in Christ dear sister and know that I am praying for believers everywhere that we indeed focus on godly truth in the Word. Let's be gracious to others.
You gave a very thorough overview. Regarding the Anglican position on Baptism (not that I can speak for all Anglicans), I would have put it differently: not that we practice infant Baptism, and adults"may" be baptized, too. Rather, the biblical norm is that repentance and confession of faith precede Baptism. But we make an exception for the children of believing parents. We don't require that parents have their children baptized.
In reality, many or maybe most Anglicans were baptized as children, but a large minority, I think, received Baptism as adult new Christians.
I might also correct his representation of baptism in the SBC. While immersion is unofficially preferred, there is no requirement that immersion is the only and correct form of baptism. Believers' baptism IS required, meaning it must be at the request of the candidate.
Thanks for the overview!
I have migrated denominationally since birth. The earliest move was due to my parents. We were a very Cajun family, which means we started as Catholic, but became Baptist when I was seven.
As an adult I’ve migrated from Baptist to Reformed. I prefer more liturgical worship within a theologically conservative, Protestant context.
Thank you for a cogent and brief summary of the differences between these two Christian communities.
Great info, as always. I miss your lists and checkmarks, however.
That’s what was missing, haha!
I think it’s the combination of audio and visuals that makes the information stick in one’s brain a bit better.
I “swam the Tiber” and went from the SBC to the Roman Catholicism at the Easter Vigil in 1999. I have not but love for the SBC. It imparted to me a knowledge of the scriptures and nurtured my faith in God. The Lord works in mysterious ways.
that's sad. Hopefully you come back to Christianity before it's too late!
@@thetraditionalist we Catholics are literally the original Christian’s
@@mr.anderson2241 I'm sure the Orthodox would beg to differ with you on that one.
@@bigscarysteve in a cosmic sort of way I can easily include the orthodox in the statement, because they also call themselves Catholic in a sense and if they just stopped worrying about papal supremacy and the filioque they could easily be readopted back as eastern churches because they’re just like us Catholics in most ways and only really differ on an aesthetics level
@@thetraditionalist perfect
I was a life long Southern Baptist, but I began seeing scriptural inconsistencies in SBC theology. These inconsistencies were initially limited to the subjects of the Eucharist, baptism, and the authority of the Church, but the more I searched for a church that did align with what the Bible actually says about these topics, the more theological discrepancies I found in the SBC.
She’s on the right track. I went through Canterbury too… on my way to Rome!
I went through Canterbury too, just on my way to the East :) Blessings to you my friend!
The whole apolestic authority is a big assumption that is never directly said such offices need to have Successor. So no.
@@Yeshua_is_king_2024
It was written about by all the early Church fathers consistently beginning with Clement of Rome sometime around 75 AD and then Ignatius of Antioch in 105 AD, Irenaeus, Polycarp, Justin Martyr, etc. you see the beginnings of apostolic succession in Acts when they chose Matthias to replace Judas and they consecrated him as his successor through the laying of hands. This continues to this day in the Catholic Church, Oriental Orthodox Churches, and Eastern Orthodox Church. The only ones who don’t maintain this succession are Protestants and that’s because they broke from this lineage and no longer have valid apostolic succession and the valid holy orders it allows for.
Martin Luther was asked point blank what authority he had to break away and invent his own doctrines and he was seriously stumped by this question, so after a long pause, he said the Bible was his authority and the funny thing is there’s nothing in the Bible to support that assertion. The Bible is clear that there is one flock, one bread, one body, one faith, one baptism, and one Lord of all. The Bible is also clear that it is not the only source of authoritative teaching when it says It does not hold all that Jesus taught and did and when it instructs the faithful to “hold fast to the traditions passed down to them from the apostles, both written and orally.”
@@BB-kt5eb, you've just affirmed the point made by @Sal R. Apostolic succession as it is currently understood is a post-apostolic development that may be explicitly mentioned in the Church Fathers' writings, but is not explicitly mentioned in the Sacred Scriptures.
@@souveniehollande979
Apostolic succession predates the New Testament. In fact, You wouldn’t have a New Testament at all if it weren’t for the Council of Hippo in 395 AD. Prior to that, there were over 300 different texts floating around various parts of the Church all claiming the same level of authority and truth. The authority of the Catholic Church was what was required to establish the canon of scripture as we know it today. Some of the other books were excluded because they were deemed to contain, error, contradictions, or heresies, while others were excluded solely because they were not written by the first generation of Christian leaders.
Apostolic succession actually is in the New Testament in the book of Acts when the apostles chose Mathias to replace Judas and they passed the apostolic authority down to him through the laying of hands. It’s in the book of Acts. It’s predecessor form is found in the Old Testament too with the chair of Moses being the one with authority over Jews and the Levitical priesthood. That was through blood lineage though, whereas apostolic succession is through ordination and then the bishops are chosen from among the ordained.
I really prefer the graphics being on screen. I found this hard to follow and comprehend without slowing it down and rewinding. That’s coming from someone who usually listens at 1.5 speed. Great work as always though! @Ready To Harvest
Thanks for your research. I appreciate it
Not a bad summary. As one who is active in the ACNA I was impressed by how well you presented the two denominations. I have to say that the final straw that caused things ACNA to come into being in 2009 was when the Episcopal church chose to ordain a openly homosexual bishop who had previously been married. I wish you had given that some emphasis. But overall you have done a good job of representing the denomination and their practices. Kudos
A denomination founded on homoignorance. Oy Vey
@James Leach, as a friendly correction, it wasn't an ordination, but a consecration as bishop, and it occurred in 2003. The ACNA was formed in 2009.
I really enjoy your "just the facts" non-biased reporting on what different groups teach - especially relative to one another. I attended several SBC churches in my youth and I was always surprised by the variety within them - some were more traditional while others embraced contemporary worship and expression. I haven't been back to an SBC church since then, so I wonder those more contemporary leaning ones were asked to leave or did so on their own. When I was a teen, I would bounce between the Assembly of God and an my local SBC church every other week - and refer to myself as a "Bapticostal" - which many found amusing. I didn't have a lot of options in my hometown, so I had to be creative. I could not understand why those with the strongest theological ground weren't all that excited about it. Go figure. Today, I prefer Calvary Chapel but I attend an Assembly of God since that is what my wife prefers.
I think people are worried because when a Protestant moves to Canterbury it’s usually just a layover until they catch a plane to Rome or Constantinople.
Jerusalem is God’s City!
Those are like the two most apostolic churches in the Christian world to socio historically .
@@tpower919 well from what I’ve read, Protestants who convert to Catholicism or Orthodoxy usually begin their journey by getting closer to the reformation and what the OG reformers envisioned, then they fully cross over to be on the other side of the reformation.
Not sure her egalitarian views would fit in Rome or Constantinople. But, she seems opportunistic so she may drop them if she saw a following in either denomination.
@@eurekahope5310 obviously it is a male only priesthood, but there are no prohibitions on women teaching men theology In Catholicism. I think it’s the same in orthodoxy but I’m not 100% sure.
I’m a Lutheran, so technically no dog in the fight … but the early Church Fathers who literally knew the Apostles clearly valued liturgy and tradition. Southern Baptists have gone way too contemporary and Non-Denominational in style…
Well done. I learned a lot.
Most religious people just learn about religion and not about a personal fellowship with Jesus Christ. I am convinced that most people who call themselves know religion instead of Jesus Christ. Or they have created their own God in their head. That is why we must make sure that we know the God of the bible and know that we are truly saved.
Lay religion, Christian culture, and even politics aside. Someone who truly loves you is reaching out to you not willing that you should perish (2 Peter3), but that you be saved from the price of your sins.
With that said, how do you deal with your sin? Yes you. How many times have you lied, lusted, or stolen? I'm guilty, what about you? I hope you feel convicted.
But if you're going to reject the free gift of salvation, you ought to think about where you are going after death.
Is this your mindset?
Luke 12:19
Please please do not be this person that Jesus described here. I don't care how if you are in a ministry or even behind a pulpit. And their is no shame in getting saved.
Matthew 7
21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
You see there will be professing Christians that were not actually saved.
I want to help you.
Matthew 18:3
"And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven."
Because of God's holiness we cannot be in his presence as we are in our sin. No matter how righteous one may appear everyone has sinned and one sin can lead to hell, but there is a way out. We don't deserve it but God made a way that we may become the righteousness of God (Romans 5). I want you to have 100% assurance of salvation.
Romans 3:23 - For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
John 3:16 - For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
John 14
6Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
Romans 6
23For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
1 John 1:9 - If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us [our] sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1Corinthians 15:
1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
Romans 10
9That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
12For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. 13For WHOSOEVER shall CALL upon the name of the Lord shall be SAVED.
Here is the gospel straight and simple:
1. Truly acknowledge that you have sinned against a perfect God and you are worthy of hell that can only be saved by the blood of Jesus Christ
2. Believe that Jesus died for and covered all of your sins and rose again.
3. Say to God that Jesus Christ he is your saviour.
Please let me know. I am praying for you, today is the day of salvation.
2 Corinthians 5:17
“Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.”
I attend a SBC church, and I'm uncomfortable with the amount of attention some of us have given to Beth and her authority (supposed or genuine) in her new congregation. I don't appreciate her teaching at all, but a lot of folks are coming across as obsessive and spiteful. If her teaching is wrong, call it out, but I'm tired of people checking up on and misunderstanding the role she is currently playing in her new church (not a bishop, like some are trying to claim). It looks crazy. She left the SBC. Let her go.
She’s not even a priest or a deacon she was serving as an acolyte (which is the same thing as an altar boy).
@@chipcole4817 right, I think people are confused because they aren't used to higher liturgy churches. Seeing someone in robes makes them think she's a bishop, when from what I hear teens can serve in that role. I wonder if it's partially just confirmation bias since she's such a controversial figure
@@katiem9923 it's a combination of SBC people not understanding Anglican practices and also despising Beth Moore. When you're complementarian belief translates into blindness and hatred, you're doing it wrong
News flash, she can't leave the SBC as she was not a member of it, churches are. But she made a big deal if it for attention. As she usually does. Now, she can leave a SBC member church. Not sure what church that was and how their leadership let her run over them, if they did. Or if any church claimed her as a member.
@@glynnetolar4423 I wouldn't speak about what you don't know about. She attended or her son-in-law's SBC church for years, never as a pastor. She is a traveling speaker who sells Bible study materials, she's not a pastor, so no need to hate on her. Your point about SBC membership is just semantics, she left the SBC.
I appreciate your journalistic style
excellent summary
Please make a video on the reform Presbyterian Church North America please. If it's not too much to ask that is
I moved from nominally being raised in the SBC to enthusiastically attending an ACNA church. In terms of theology, it wasn't a huge jump for me but the liturgy made a lot of my decision for me. Its not that I am opposed to others having a contemporary service but I needed the order, reflection, and peace of the Anglican liturgy to worship the Lord.
I was raised Baptist, then Evangelical Free, went to Bible college at an Evangelical Bible school but had serious questions, but not at the time....but then years later started studying the Early Church Fathers ( Apostolic Fathers). The "Apostolic Fathers" taught me that my neo-gnostic Baptist beliefs were heresy....but it took me a while to admit it. I now attend an ACNA Anglican Church which tends towards Anglo-Catholic in some ways, but Evangelical Protestant in the other ways. None of us will find the perfect church but keep searching for the truth of Christ which is everywhere present. In views of the Scriptures, the Eastern Orthodox got it right and the Roman Catholics, following Jerome, got it wrong.
Good job! I'm an ACNA priest, and I would say that Arminianism/Molinism is expressly ruled out by Articles 9-11 in the Articles of Religion, though I do know priests who come from that background/position.
Could you perhaps make video(s) on the AFM - Apostolic Faith Mission? They are a big church in South Africa (also influenced the ZCC as far as I know) but originated in the USA. Thanks
Could you slow it down a bit please .
You should do a video on the Vinyard church
ruclips.net/video/ySzp84Lb5gU/видео.html
I am sorry but Who is Beth Moore?
Well, I am very late to the party, if you will.
I am so thankful that you took the time to create this video. Thank you.
I have never been a fan of Beth Moore. I have never been a fan of the show that first introduced her. I can’t remember the name of the show. Husband and wife show? I don’t really watch TV ministries. Also, I had no idea that her books were so well read. I just don’t understand the attraction.
I knew there were major differences between the SBC and the ACNA, at least I find them to be major. I can’t imagine why anyone would make those changes to truly held beliefs, unless there’s an ulterior motive.
I wonder if the ACNA is going to be large enough to satisfy those motives?
TV show. Seems like I remember some TV show she had, but she was BIG well before that…10 years or more. What really got her going was Sunday School. She was a women’s SS teacher and she started developing her own curriculum. Others in her church or area like it and talked her into making copies for them to use. In comes Lifeway, and BAM, women all over the SBC know who she is. That was in the 90s, and I think the TV show was late 2000s. I learned of her from Passion (OneDay ‘03). I was talking to folk and learned she was a big deal in women’s ministry, it just wasn’t on my radar being a single 22 y/o man.
As far as the ACNA being “big enough”, I think you are correct. She has gone astray from her teachings/beliefs of years gone by, and has become a bigger pop culture figure.
Several years ago our church ladies group decided to have a Bible study using one of BM's books/video series. Right off the bat I thought it strange the video showed her teaching men in the crowd. Then some of her "teachings" on Bible passages sounded "off". I did some homework and quit the group. Thankfully, BM materials are no longer used at my church.
Great comment
Life Today Betty and James Robinson Charismatic/Pentecostal.
@@misswinnie4.8
Oh my goodness, thank you! Yes, that was the show.
@@Caderic I went to the church she started out in. Yea, she was a BIG deal.
Wondering if someone can help. Back in the 1980's when I was at university I owned parts 1 and 2 of a 3 volume set of religious sects. Paperbacks. The were divided into Catholic/Orthodox, Protestant anf Eastern faiths. Does anyone remember this series? And can anyone remember the title of the series? thanks
Not sure. Think they were by Gordon Melton.
@@richardsaintjohn8391 Thanks.
Good job Joshua as usual. I really enjoyed the comparison. This reveals just how drastically Beth Moore has changed through the years. To me it also proves just how many of her critics were correct!
I was in a Beth Bible study
Had to walk out ..
I’m really interested to see what’s behind the fall of the SBC. It would be a very interesting video. Are they leaving the faith or are they moving non-denominational/ other denominations
Maybe it’s the sexism.
@@megameow321 and the Trumpism
@@megameow321 what sexism?
A bunch of churches that called themselves "Baptist" are dropping the title.
People are reading the Bible and learning that their upbringing was practically created in the 1800s and doesn’t have any continuity. I am a former SBC Christian, baptized as a little child and grew up to become Anglican. I’m a little harsh to Baptists, but I still have church trauma for how I was raised.
Romans 5:1 says when you take faith in Jesus and all he did….. you get peace with God……a spiritual handshake…. You are cool with God and He is cool with you! Lots of comments here take away God’s peace!
Which Dioceses within the ACNA allow for the ordination of women?
I was surprised to learn that Beth Moore was Southern Baptist and even more surprised that she became Anglican, seeing she belongs to the New Apostolic Reformation. You gave a good overview of these two denominations. Personally, while have a church family, I find it a good practice, to let Jesus be the name over my heart rather than my denomination. In the several groups I've formed on different social media sites we make it a practice not to bring up our denomination, because doing so may cause division, and Jesus calls us to be unified in His Spirit.
No such thing as NAR. Its bologna conspiracy theories
@@seniorretirementplanning You want to argue that with Lindsay Davis who came out of Bethel, a New Apostolic Reformation church ruclips.net/video/winCHM9yuY4/видео.html
Why have people been talking about her converting to Rome? Do they not recognise the difference between Roman Catholicism and Anglicanism. Has she really gone Episcopalian?
I could never afford to attend Beth Moore conferences so I never was hooked. Thank God!
This was a good summary. The only thing I mention about the disagreements between ACNA and the Episcopal Church is that our biggest disagreement is actually on how we understand biblical inerrancy. The Episcopal Church (like other liberal denominations) believes that the Bible is authoritative, but that God allowed certain "errors" to be included in Scripture due to the ancient writers' lack of historical and scientific knowledge. Thus, the Bible should not be taken extremely literally or regarded as inerrant. This is what allows Episcopalians to accept certain views on marriage and sexuality that are different from traditional Christian teachings. As one Episcopal bishop said once, "Man wrote the Bible, so man can rewrite it."
In contrast, the ACNA (like other conservative churches and denominations) believes that while God used human writers to write the Bible, he inspired every word that they wrote. Therefore, every word in Scripture is God-breathed and should be taken to be literal and inerrant. This is the key philosophical difference that separates conservatives and liberals. Issues on sexuality are merely symptoms of this disagreement.
Does anybody here know anything about this presenter "Josh"? For example, his full name, his location, his sponsors, what denomination/religion he is a member of, etc.? I've been looking for a bio on him but can't seem to find one ... thanks!
See Hello, I’m Joshua.
m.ruclips.net/video/c6x4GC0YKoM/видео.html
Josh does present in a non-biased journalistic style. It would be hard to tell.
Why did you not mention the reason for the split in the Baptist Church in 1845?
If you want you can learn about that in my video on the subject: ruclips.net/video/35maPuZl3as/видео.html
Beth Moore joining the ACNA... That is fascinating for a variety of reasons, and it's equally fascinating there are pictures of her distributing the Eucharist (the way she was dressed I would have to assume that she has been instituted as an acolyte in the ACNA, although I'm not sure of that denomination's requirements for being allowed to distribute the Eucharist as a lay person...
I wonder if SBC publishing arms are still publishing and distributing her work?
Books that she wrote while she was affiliated with the SBC are still being published by Lifeway at the least. Her new books are by a different publisher.
@@ReadyToHarvest yes, she's always been too much of a cash cow for Lifeway for them to just discard her, I would think
I don't want to make it sound as though money is the principal concern, I understand why Beth Moore is and can be a controversial figure in Southern Baptist and Evangelical circles (I suspect that in time she could turn into a lightning rod in the ACNA for various reasons), but publishing houses have to make money, and Beth Moore made a lot of money for LifeWay over the years, and if they just drop her work they would be losing a lot of money.
I attended an ACNA church and distribution of the Eucharist is pretty flexible so long a as priest is overseeing it. There's lot of specific rules regarding the Eucharist, but during a church service it's up to the priests discretion who helps serve.
The priest usually distributes the host and a lay person, or Lay Eucharistic Minister, can follow with a chalice. Not that complicated really. Mostly try not to spill. Sometimes the LEM will take Communion to those unable the attend the service, maybe at a nursing home, for example.
Lifeway will continue to sell her trash. Too much money to be made. And even though I'm in an SBC church, I can say, for Lifeway, it's all about the money. Even if proven some books are harmful!
There's no way to accurately measure it, but I can wonder what the average communicant's age is in the ACNA (?) 🤔
Woah
Im presbyterian (PCA) but am curious to see a ACNA liturgy.
I'm also PCA and visited an ACNA church once. There's a lot of variety among individual churches but the one I went to was basically Catholic, and I mean that respectfully. They're certainly our siblings in Christ but I seriously wouldn't step foot in one again unless there weren't any other options locally.
I know your pressed for time but the rate at which you speak is not an effective means of communication. Thank you for your commitment.
You must ask yourself, am I going to this or that church because it reflects what I want to believe or because this selected church is closest to the Bible. Loved the video.
Do women wear hats in your church services? Are women allowed to speak at all in church?
@@bobdupuy5910 I have never seen anyone wear a hat in there that I can remember. Yes they talk and teach children's classes.
@@dustbat But doesn't Paul say that women should keep their heads covered while in church. 1 Cor. 11:6. When I grew up, women wore hats in church for this reason. Why did this stop?
@@bobdupuy5910 There are many things I do not understand about things of which you are speaking. I cannot answer those things. I have heard issues preached on from all angles.If one feels comfortable telling ladies to shut up and cover their heads, go ahead. These issues are not a concern to me. From the time Jesus made it a sin, or rather told us it is a sin to think about women in a lustful way, I knew it is only grace to pull me through, not laws and rules.
@@dustbat based
What denomination is Joshua?
Man has always been enamored with the idea that there's something he can do to save himself, but men just can't agree on what that something should be. Thus, the multitude of denominations and their various creeds.
As an Anglican, I attend a local episcopal church which is surprisingly more conservative than our ACNA parish. The ACNA parish speaks in tongues, practices prophecy and makes a mockery of the liturgy. My episcopal church uses the 1928 prayer book and is much more liturgically pious. Male only priests and remains an outlier among the outside episcopal church. Glad to be Anglican and glad Beth Moore had come home to the catholic faith.
Jess, Beth Moore is a danger to your conservative Anglican/Episcopal churches. She is the kind of person that joins to push feminist changes (as she did in the SBC). She has a manner that appeals to many and has become more divisive with time. All I can say is watch out. As for myself, I am a Reformed Baptist who was born into a Jewish family. My guide is Sola Scriptura and I consider the 1689 London Baptist Confession to be in close agreement. Essentially one could say that I am an OPC theologically except for infant baptism and church polity.
Do you live in Detroit?
@@MikeHammer1 One huge difference between Anglicanism and the Baptists is polity, if Beth Moore shows up to a synod meeting and tries to stir things up she can immediately be shut down by the bishop(s). The top down authority requires adequate submission to the leaders your under to gain any authority. Since she is in a diocese that only ordains women to the Diaconate she won’t be able to climb the hierarchy all that well, and being a voice in favor of a position on women’s ordination that her bishop doesn’t approve of is a bad look, prior to my conversion to Anglicanism I became a bit more liberal, but as I converted I became more conservative than before, it may be similar for Beth.
@@chipcole4817 Having been married in and a member of a conservative Lutheran Church (CLB) for many years I understand the polity of the Synodical system. But any properly run Congregational church can do the same thing, up to and including excommunication. The problem in both cases is that wink, wink, nod, nod that goes on in churches that are going apostate. One of the reasons that I take issue with the Synodical form of polity is that, being top down, it can be easily taken over from within. That is how the ELCA, the PCUSA and the Episcopal church were destroyed here in the US. I take no personal position as to which of these is more biblical (Synodical or Congregational) but the congregational form gives the local church autonomy such that their buildings cannot be taken away and their conservative elders cannot be thrown out and stripped of their livelihood and their pensions. This happened to people like J. Gresham Machen during the purge in the PCUSA after the liberals took over the seminaries and showed no mercy after pleading for tolerance when the conservatives were in control. Read Gary North's book "Crossed Fingers." It is available for free on the internet as an eBook if you search for it.
Oh, and BTW, there is nothing in the bible to justify women in the Diaconate. The qualifications are clearly spelled out in 1 Timothy 3:8-13 where it clearly states that they Must be men who are not in a polygamous relationship. God's peace.
@@MikeHammer1 "Deacons likewise must be serious, not double-tongued, not indulging in much wine, not greedy for money; they must hold fast to the mystery of the faith with a clear conscience. And let them first be tested; then, if they prove themselves blameless, let them serve as deacons. **Women likewise must be serious, not slanderers, but temperate, faithful in all things.** Let deacons be husbands of one wife, and let them manage their children and their households well; for those who serve well as deacons gain a good standing for themselves and great boldness in the faith that is in Christ Jesus."
I’m Assembly of God. I’ve done all of Beth Moores Bible studies, and read all of her books. I don’t believe God cares what names we give our churches, as long as they teach the truth about Jesus who he is, his birth death and resurrection
Yes, but when a person is choosing a church to attend, information on the denomination is very helpful.
Makes perfect sense
It would be helpful if you spoke more slowly.
I wouldn’t want to be in either denomination.
As a person in the SBC. I understand we don't know the kingdom impact she has made, at the same time. I think it was time for her to make an exit. As she had different priorities.
YOU think it was time for her to go? Who are you...God?
@@crichter1724 I'm not God.. but I do think if Beth felt she needed to make a move, then I'm happy for her. I'm not in either denomination, however I attended her studies from time to time...hope she found the place she feels at home.
Good overview, but there's not a sizable group of Continuing Churches that have joined the ACNA.
If you consider the REC to be continuing, then yes, but the REC has always been a little different from the continuum.
@@chipcole4817 The REC is not a part of the Continuum. Like the Continuum we (I'm an REC priest) have our origins in the 70s, but it's the 1870s.
@@TheDCinSC it’s debatable whether REC is continuing but that’s a matter of semantics. Continuing is not mutually exclusive to G3 diocese. There are numerous Continuing diocese outside G3. As an anglican in a conservative diocese of the episcopal church, we would label the REC continuing.
You'd be incorrect. The REzc existed for more than 100 years prior to the Congress of St. Louis and while sharing affinity with many parts of the Affirmation of St. Louis we do not subscribe to it.
Also, the Continuum is hardly limited to the G3 jurisdictions.
@@TheDCinSC Yeah, I’m in the REC as well, but I could see how doing a quick overview of the ACNA’s founding, it would be easy to view any non TEC church (such as the REC) as being on the continuum, even though they aren’t bound to the Congress of St. Louis. I don’t think we actually are on the continuum, but I could see how it would be an easy detail to miss.
The ACNA has grown in America because of the extreme liberalism of scripture in the Episcopal churches when homosexuals were allowed to become priests and deacons about twenty years ago.
Do you think the material could be read any faster?
Seems like an odd choice for someone of her stripe. My take is that they are a fairly conservative lot.
O Christ our God! O Everlasting King, Thy will for our salvation is full of power.
Thy right arm controls the whole course of human life.
We give Thee thanks for all Thy mercies, seen and unseen,
for eternal life, for the heavenly joys of the Kingdom which is to be.
Grant mercy to us who sing Thy praise, both now and in the time to come.
Glory to Thee, O God, from age to age. Alleluia! Alleluia! Alleluia!
Glory to the Father and to the Son and to the Holy Spirit!
Amen
I am a Christian first, a father and husband second. I am a Southern Baptist about fifth or sixth. I appreciate this description. I am part of SBC because my church can't be told what to do.
So American. LOL
Although, it is one of the reasons I go to a SBC, it’s minimal of reasons but still a reason.
@@Caderic LOL
Hopefully. She will come home to Rome. I'm a Catholic convert from the Baptist Church.
You may have missed this; there is ONE FAITH, and Jesus Christ (alone) is the head of His Church.
Ephesians 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
1 Corinthians 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
The SBC exists for one reason. Slavery. The original Baptist Association, with whom Jefferson had been corresponding in his "Wall of Separation Between Church and State"-letter, was opposed to Slavery, but the Southern Baptists thought it was just and Biblically-supported....the reason the SBC has a teetotaler view of alcohol is that as the Temperance era led up to the Volstead Act (18th Amendment/Prohibition), the KKK promoted Volstead and the SBC was the home church of the KKK.
In 2016, the SBC actually had to hold a VOTE to declare that the Alt Right, particularly Mathew Heimbach's Traditionalist Workers' Party, were essentially rebranded National Socialist skinheads and a threat to mainstream Conservatism. If you have to vote whether or not the Alt Right should be associated with your denomination, you should remember why you left the main Baptist Association based in Danbury.
Maybe, just maybe, TO HECK with the KKK's Teetotal view on alcohol (and obviously also on Black people and the Jews) and have a nice white wine the next time you serve chicken or a rich red the next time you have a steak and potato. The Lord turned water into wine for a WEDDING, remember? The idea is NOT to down the whole bottle, tie your necktie around your head like a bandana and crank your Petra CDs up so loud your neighbors call the police.
Great info, really interested but you talk too fast! Will need to listen a few times to get the meat of it. Thanks!
His sounds like both the SPC and the Anglican need to drop all their bylaws and go back to the way the original church was back in the book of Acts
Would you please speak to the mega churches that say they are part of the Southern Baptist convention like Elevation Church the one that the pastor has down in Texas I don't know its name I'm birthday he's at claims to be a bishop
It is all about money not God
I'm Church of England (Anglican), but it doesn't surprise me. Anglicanism means pretty much anything, especially across the pond
So Anglicans are basically 'everything but the bible' concerning behavior?
Not true. As a Non- Denominational Christian, I've been attending ACNA for months. It's high church, liturgically & biblically based. No its not "anything goes". Worship is much more traditional. You won't find laser light shows and concert style services like u would find in SBC churches. ( I attended various SBC churches over 3 years).
@@LadyOrion2012 Yes, but they are still a works based salvation and will damn you to hell.
Only Jesus can save you. Though tradition is nice, the Pharisees thought so as well...and now women can teach in the church, hold offices in the church....making it no church at all.
@@LadyOrion2012 Yeah, the REC I attend is traditional.
@@dennisking4589 works based salvation? No. It is grace based salvation. We encounter grace through God, Christ and the Holy Ghost in various ways. We are not saved by our own doings in Anglicanism but saved through Christ’s death and resurrection. We are justified through the sacraments, but salvation and justification are quite different concepts. Baptism is a grace we receive through Christ and the Holy Ghost, communion is grace through Christ’s body and blood. We don’t believe in the work of “believers baptism.” All that are baptized are baptized into Christ’s death.
As a rather new Anglican (after several other denominations in my spiritual growth) I would agreed with most of your statements. However we do not see either sacrament as necessary for salvation which comes from faith in Jesus’s death on the Cross paying for our sins. The sacraments are outward expressions of that faith in Christ. We acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sin but it is Christ shedding his Blood that washes away our sins not the water. Communion is our weekly refilling of Christ in order to live out our salvation that was purchased at the Cross once for all.
I was quoting The ACNA's Catechism (question #123) which says: What sacraments were ordained by Christ?
The two sacraments ordained by Christ that are “generally necessary to salvation” (1662 Catechism) are Baptism and Holy Communion (also called the Lord’s Supper or the Holy Eucharist). These are sometimes called “sacraments of the Gospel.” (Articles of Religion, 25; see also Matthew 28:19-20; Luke 22:14-20; John 6:52-58; 1 Corinthians 11:23-26; 2 Corinthians 1:21-22)
You can read it here: anglicancompass.com/what-do-anglicans-believe-about-the-sacraments-baptism-holy-communion-confirmation-ordination-marriage-absolution-anointing-of-the-sick/
Kathleen Kirchoff is right. Our congregation is evangelical and charismatic and we believe we are saved only by faith and trust in the Lord Jesus Christ. The sacraments are outward expressions of our inner faith.
update, Elevation church left the SBC in 2023 (a year after this video came out) over the issue of women pastors
Very informative. Would be better if you spoke slower. You gave a lot of information but rattled it off so fast that it diminished the effectiveness.
Agree. I’ve found that a lot of young people today speak incoherently fast.
My grandfather was one of the theological moderates tossed out the SBC back in the 80s. They've always been viciously tribal, and now they've turned on their golden girl too, huh? Unsurprising, I suppose.
It doesn't matter until she embraces the Apostles' Doctrine. Acts 2 38. The original plan of salvation also called the New Birth. Otherwise it doesn't matter.
I've always called myself an Anglobapticostal 😅.
This is probably a good fit.
My former baptist pastor called us “Bapticostals.”
I was in 16 denominations! Cant begin to name THAT!
Salvation is not determine by your denomination, but by your relationship with God. Your obedience to Him.
ACNA!!!!! Love my BoCP
I as well. The BCP is a tremendous resource.
I did like the video but I think I’d like a little slower version. This is what happens when one moves to the south 😂
I always choose a slow playback speed for these videos. Click the 3 dots in the too right corner of the video and a menu will appear. One of the options is “playback speed”. 👍🏽
Beth Moores more a Word of Faith- New Apostolic Reformation teacher. Examples would be Joyce Myers - Kenneth Copeland or any of the self proclaimed new apostles and prophets. TV evangelists. May she be happy in her new home.
I really wish to understand this but the quick rat a tat of your delivery makes it difficult. You are not under time constraints....please consider slowing down your delivery which may be wonderful. Not critical, just wishing to be helpful for a listerner as myself. Thank you
As a former SBC who has been ACNA for about 9 years, I can certainly understand the attraction. But I think she's an odd fit for us.
Edit: I should clarify that Moore is more than welcome in ACNA as far as I'm concerned. There are a LOT of SBC folks moving to ACNA these days.
My comment above was an off-hand and poorly-expressed observation that the more modern brand of Christianity that she is very publicly associated with seems like an unusual match for a denomination that deliberately celebrates and expresses the ancientness of its faith. But I get that the way I expressed that thought sounds very "exclusive."
@Benjamin ACNA is filled with a lot of former SBC who are looking for something "deeper" in their worship and daily walk and are drawn to the combination of evangelical fidelity and solemn liturgy rooted in ancient Christianity. I'm guessing that Beth is drawn to this same thing. But she's has spent many years being the face of a more "pop" type of theology than what most of ACNA is rooted in.
@Benjamin Good question. No, it's not designed for that. Pharisees can be found in most denominations, liturgical and non liturgical, imo.
@@joefrescoln Especially in ones that lean Calvinistic. Pharisee Central.
@@baltichammer6162 “Baltic Hammer stood by himself and prayed: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other people-robbers, evildoers, adulterers-or even like this Calvinist.’”
@Benjamin Nah, it’s just good biblical worship
The question is why?
Great job,young man. Hard to see what Beth Moore would find so attractive to a woman. What will she do in their congregations that she couldn't do in SBC?
I would not let Beth Moore preach to my dog.
Gotta say, between sbc or Anglican, I’d lean towards the acna... I prefer the liturgy, as well as calendar etc. as long as I could find a conservative church that was Calvinist
Calvinism would not be a required or even a majority view in the ACNA. I think you'd have a hard time finding a parish that was completely Calvinist. That's not exactly something that you find in most liturgical traditions. Remember that the calvinist elements within Anglicanism eventually lead to the Cromwellian revolt, and during Cromwell's time virtually all traditional indications of liturgy were done away with. He thought that the very presence of a high altar at the front of a church was a sign of papist influence.
Apart from things which are adiaphora, one should not focus on preferences, but on what scripture teaches. Otherwise we will soon find ourselves violating the command in Colossians 2:8 regarding man-made traditions such as are found in the church of Rome.
"Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle."
-2 Thessalonians 2:15
The REC which is within the ACNA might seem more familiar to a Calvinist.
@@MikeHammer1 the church predates the Biblical canon as we know it. The Canon was finalized in the 4th Century AD.
The Church of England just starting "blessing" or ratifying homosexual unions so....
I do not allow a woman to have dominion over a man in the church. Paul
Small correction, Confirmation is actually the "laying on of hands and prayer for a quickening of the Spirit" which can look like an adult affirmation of faith but that isn't what it means in its historic and true sense in Anglican/Catholic/Orthodox Churches
Here is what the ACNA says about confirmation in their latest catechism. It affirms both what I said in the video, and what you stated as well.
137. What is confirmation?
Confirmation is the laying on of the bishop’s hands with prayer for strengthening by the Holy Spirit, following a period of catechetical formation. In confirmation, I make a mature confession of faith, publicly renewing the vows and promises made at my Baptism. (Deuteronomy 6:4-25; Psalm 119:33-40; Acts 8:14-17; 2 Timothy 1:6-7)
@@ReadyToHarvest thanks for the reply!!!
What you have to say is very interesting, but you are talking much to fast. I finally gave up, what you are telling us is jsut too confusing. Maybe you need to present your facts in a document, not on RUclips. What you have to tell us is very interesting, but to fast to be comprehended
Use the speed button to slow down
@@politereminder6284 Hum? Don't know about a speed button. Where is it?? Thanks
Small correction when it was founded the name of the Anglican Church was "The Protestant Episcopal Church in the United States of America" They dropped "Protestant" from most uses in 1979
The ACNA would presumably not accept a baptism not done in the name of the three persons of the Most Holy Trinity.
"The rich [wo]man, not to make any invidious comparisons, is always sold to the institution[s] that makes [them] rich."
["Civil Disobedience", H.D. Thoreau]
I'm all for individuals seeking spiritual matters as God directs but it is a little concerning that someone in a leadership position has not already made that journey prior to accepting leadership positions. That being said, anything can happen. So I'd say it is a concerning but not critical issue.
These are her principles. If you don't like them she has others.
Can Roman Catholic be far behind? :)
Interesting video. Thank you. I only wish you would not speak so fast. At times you sound like you are speed-reading. Also, I would like to hear more details about Mrs. Moore and the particular Anglican church she joined. Most Anglicans believe the Bible and therefore do not ordain woman as deacons, priests or bishops, the exception being deaconess in some cases (primarily to minister to other women in the church).
I don't even believe she is going or joining the Angelican church. I have zero info on. This..
Beth who? 🤷🏻♂️