What Gear is My Gear? Part 3: HiFiMan Susvara...Still the King! & How Hard is it to Drive REALLY?
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- Опубликовано: 27 июл 2024
- A big thanks to HiFiMan for sending me a Susvara to use as a reference piece!
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Timestamps...
00:00 Intro, Pricing, Disclaimer
02:30 Shameless Self Promotion
02:58 More Introduction
06:00 Some Build Complaints
10:55 Sound
18:52 How Much Power Does it Need?
25:00 Wrap Up
One thing I love about my Sus is it is so transparent it scales really well with better gear. From better cables, power conditioners, more detailed DAC like the TT2, and spaciousness of a tube amp like the Cayin 300B Mk2 the Sus just sound better and better. I've recently tried connecting it to the speaker out of my Cayin 300B tube amp and the Sus went up another level again. Like you said, the realism, dynamic range and decay of the Sus is sublime but IMHO you will need pretty good gear and clean environment (clean power, minimum RF interference, clean source signal via optical or better USB cable etc) to get the most out of it. The Sus rewards you whenever you upgrade your system :)
Can you suggest a dac and an amp? I have 3k budget for it
@@Ivan-bg1jp you need an insane amount of power for the Sus. 3k is hard for amp and dac.
perfect equipment: HoloAudio Bliss + Spring DAC. For 3k alone i would take the ifi pro idsd Signature + collecting additional bucks for ifi ican pro signature.
The Questyle CMA fifteen can also be a solution, but the power is borderline.
You need an equipment that is good enough, otherwise the Sus does not make sense, then you should decide for the HE1000SE.
Thank you for this review. Excellent "real time" assement on " normal" gear!! We needed that! Not everyone can afford a 3K+ amp. A true, high quality speaker amp can be had for less which will do a stellar job on Sus in most cases. Just need wonky connections and a sturdy desk. However, The IFI I Can Pro Signature is as far as I am going in "head amp land"!! The thing sounds amazing on nearly anything, including the Susvara.. Richer tonality +Bass boost + High current cure overly polite bottom end. Another great review sir!!
Your analytics are next to non, and your happiness for the Sus's is infectious. More joyous reviews please, even if it means you only do SUMMITfi reviews. You review lofi and midfi, but obviously your heart lies with the SUMMITfi. We will never get their, so sharing your love of the Sus's benefits all audiophiles. Many Thanks.
This is the best Susvara review so far 👍🏻
He never mentioned the actual gear he used though?
Thank you for this review! The ease in which you explain difficult topics in this review is incredible! Well done 🤯 I wish I could listen to a Susvara one day…It seems like an amazing headphone indeed.
I have the LCD-5 and I am still struggling to find good synergy with the rest of the signal path.
This is the first time I have seen any of your videos, and I would say I agree with 99% of what you said. I have every model that HiFiman makes except for the electrostatics. Certainly, the aspects of the sound I agree with you totally. Where we deviate is at the cable tension. I actually very much prefer the light tension it has now because I have probably stepped on the cable a half a dozen times in the last year and yanked them out. If it were any tighter or worse yet, one of those stupid locking cables some HPs have, I would have broken the cable or my Susvara. Or if I had wrapped it around my neck as you suggested, I would be dead lol. As for driving them, well I went through a dozen different Amps until I hit sonic bliss. I'm using the Flux Volot on one listening rig, and using the Ferrum Oor in another room. One really smart point you made was that people can be fooled thinking they have enough power because many amps can drive the volume but very few can drive them to potential. Those that use a topping A90D or lesser would have a bad opinion of the Susvara because they never got to see what they can truly do. My chain is RME ADI-2 DAC to A90D as a pre and then Flux Lab Volot. Can't ever see another HP knocking this King off its pedestal in my lifetime! Thanks for the vid, I'll check out your others.
would like to hear a comparison between susvara and linearized electrostatics like the bravura/aperio or perhaps a KSE1200+Mojo combo
Hmm.. no answer to my question in previous post. Anyway, new 2023 Susvara comes with 2 cables that are fabric-like (similar to a Sennheiser HD800S’s), terminated in 6.35 and XLR. Also, the port to insert the 3.5mm has a solid feel now. Looks like they listened to feedback. I’d read or heard that some other improvements/changes have also been made but have to find out more since HFM has a tendency to be “stealth” with no public announcement.
21:54 Going to have to remember that for the Utopia episode, lol.
Great review!! Was wondering if you had any time w the Caldera yet & how it would stack up against the Sus!
Haven't been able to get my hands on Caldera yet. Hopefully soon.
Which cable are you using with the Sus?
Also thats true that copper cable will be better for this because of the midrange presentation?
Hello! What about Susvara Unvield? Will you release review about it?
Wave, you're the best reviewer out there. Please tell me you're going to get your hands on a ef600!!!
Waiting for a review of that dac amp too.
I have the ARYA and I understand your concern regarding the 3.5 issue, however I am on HIFIMAN side on that one, I actually like it to be on the looser side, I much prefer my cable to be disconnected than my headphone being pushed around. Forza audio work owner.
I agree about the disconnection thing. I don't like locking mechanisms and prefer the cable to pull away if it gets snagged. But, a tighter fit is still appreciated, IMO.
@@wavetheorysound yeah fair enough, they are on the loose side for sure. Any chance you do a special episode on songs you listen to? at the end of the day this is what all those gears are used for yet hardly any youtubers mention them, thanks for the reply, greeting from France.
@@MrSaproling ruclips.net/p/PLAXqplOP0XrZQhuHtEA01DWeymu9guJUm
Hello. Try to compare susvara vs he1000v2 stealth using the same Speaker amp with both.
I made that and for me they are very near. The difference was control and gain in mid bass, the soundstage in the vertical a lil weird in he1000 in comparison and just a lil better layering in susvara. Try and tell us jejeje.
By the way, Why your channel name is "wave theory"? Are you acoustic Engineer or something like that?
I am a physicist, music lover, and audio gear nerd. The name WaveTheory seems to encapsulate all that in the nerdiest way possible. 😁
@@wavetheorysound wauu I am also physicis and love audio gear and music 😁😁
Does a Jotunheim 2 drive a Susvara properly?
I still wonder if you might sell much of your gear and get the SHANGRI-LA~
How do you think the Susvara compares to the HE1000V2 Stealth? I'm assuming it's significantly better (relatively), but wanted to understand how much you actually get going from one to the other. Thanks for the great review as always!
I'm interested as well in a comparison. Still impressed with my personal HE1000V2 Stealth unit. But you surely mean marginally not significantly ;) What is huge is the price difference without a doubt.
@@joggometer5393 I made that comparisson but i would like to hear the opinion of wave theroy guy :)
@@joggometer5393 "significantly" for as significant as changes can get at this high of a price/quality level! Of course I don't think it could be too huge of an improvement, and the HEKV2S is still more than satisfying for me for the time being
@@dynamic-audio So, I'd like to hear your opinion. What's your take on that? Don't know if wavetheory will comment on this question. I hope so as I know he owns a personal HE1000V2 unit, though the non-stealth.
I have both HE1000SE and susvara, and used to have the HE1000v2. I would say, the jump from HE1000se to Susvara is "significant", especially when I listen to songs that are long and complex. Significant in the sense that I can tell immediately what is missing from the HEKse: that last bit of naturalism and ease. But I have tried many other headphones, including LCD3, LCD4, SR1a, Hifiman Arya, Stax 007 ,009. Apart from the two Stax, the HEKse beats the rest quite easily. So in this sense, the improvements from HEKse to susvara is marginal: you won't notice what you are missing unless you have the susvara !
Great video! Which amplifiers will you recommend to drive the Susvara?
anything more expensive than your plan
joke aside, the above comment explained it well, it requires good overall system
always more advised to have more expensive dac+amp than the cans, to ensure 100% performance
if not grab 'less powerful' ones like lcd5 ambient pro a18t etc
Good thing you said it’s a joke, I thought you were being sarcastic and nasty 😅. DAC wise, I have the Chord Hugo TT2 with M-Scaler and the Gustard R26 as my main DACs, along with cheaper AIOs such as 2 x Burr Brown chipped-DAC, an AKM-chipped-DAC. Amplifiers wise, I use the TT2 amp, iFi Pro iCAN Signature and the GoldenWave/HFM Prelude and an OTL tube amp. I plan on getting a “proper” tube amp such as the Feliks Audio Envy, Cayin HA300B MKii, Viva Egoista 845 or the Traformatic Primavera. Finally, will do some power upgrades
For me Ferrum stack did it for Susvara. It was snappy and fast with great micro dynamics and low level detail. But to be honest you can get similar resolution from a good optimised tube amp with Utopia or from the newer Abyss, and probably a few other sets I havent heard yet like Caldera.
Having said all that if youre a timbre head Susvara delivers in spades and might very well stay on top for years to come. Its honestly mediocre in other things like macro dynamics, bass slam etc. but timbre, details and layering are something to behold. For that money though you can get into speakers that will perform even better ... so choices choices
For me, the MySphere 3.2 offers reference level mids & timbre.
This earspeaker is also quite remarkable in depth, resolution & layering too.
Maybe i missed it: what do you use to drive your susvara then? I agree with you that most headphone amp wouldn't drive it well. I had a USD4000 rudistor amp that drive everything else with ease. With susvara, it lost to the Kinki power amp that i had. But my Kinki stopped working 😢 so i need a replacement at a reasonable price
At the time this video was made I had mostly used a Violectric HPA-V281. That's not an ideal pairing but it was still fairly effective. Now I'd look into the HiFiMan Goldenwave Prelude. 2500USD and handles Sus quite well. I have a review out.
@@wavetheorysound at USD2500, I would think Benchmark ABH2 might be a safer bet at a similar enough price, and probably better resell value
@wavetheorysound I have a liquid platinum and I would like to get Susvara and use a LP as a temporary solution. Since I know you have an LP, can it power the Susvara decently? Thanks!
I don't have MLP anymore. Closest approximation I can give for pairing with Susvara would be with HE6sev2 and the MLP did NOT have enough drive for that one. Odds are good the same will be true with Susvara.
@@wavetheorysound Thanks. I appreciate you taking time to respond to these comments. Being efficient in my upgrade path can save a ton of money so this kind of info is quite valuable.
I will be at CanJam SoCal 2023 and I will be bringing my system and setting it up in my hotel room. Innuos Statement, Woo Audio WA33 Elite with upgraded KR HP tubes, Holo MAY KTE, Susvara, Utopia OG/22, Abyss 1266 TC, HD600, 650, 800, 800S
I have listened to everything out there with my setup from Chord Dave, MSB all Dacs to DCS. The only bad thing about the Susvara is powering it correctly or pairing it. The minimum AMP would be a used Benchmark AHB2 to power it I have tried everything and if you don’t power it correctly you lose soundstage, impact warmth naturalness. With my setup you can get great clean impactful BASS 50% to the 1266TC and that is saying something
May I ask with what preamplifier?
@@mr.dynamite2543 no preamp
@@russb3n I had the AHB2 driving my Susvara and it did not have enough meat on the bones for me. There simply wasn't enough weight. It sounded anemic and thin. I went to a Holo Bliss KTE and I finally have the oomph and the push and the drive and the weight.
@@mr.dynamite2543I am surprised on that with the Benchmark. I have no problem with the WA33 never pass 12 o’clock ever on any headphone used. But I am curious if I hear a Mac M2 > Innuos Phoenix USB > MAY KTE if there is any difference vs my Statement.
You've really heard all MSB DACs? Like highest ones such as Reference and MSB Select II? How do they compare, in your opinion, to high DCSs, like Rossini & Vivaldi?
Very nice description. They're way out of my price range but out of interest, does the Hifiman EF400 drive them sufficiently?
It does OK. I don't recall quite the level of softness and mushiness I heard with G111mk2 or A90D. But, the Susvara is capable of resolving far more than the EF400 can give it still making EF400 a bottleneck.
Which is closer to a Susvara, Caldera or HekSE.
Haven't heard Caldera yet so can't say for sure.
@@wavetheorysound Hope you compare these whenever you get hold of one.
You forgot the only real in similar price class contender: Caldera. Take it any day over Susvara, especially considering natural sound aspect. Susvara sounds artificial next to it.
I need me a bass shelf
Zmf caldera
TH900 MK2
Except for the Shangri-la lol
They sent you a HP and didn’t have to pay for it?
for science!
You should get the Holo Audio May and sell all your other gear + get the ZMF caldera
No offense ZMF headphones are the most OVERRATED out there in my opinion. I’ve tried all of them and spent a ton of money on them to be bored out of my mind no wow factor very neutral in sound. For the price I would take a HD650 over there top tier ZMF.
@@russb3n they are very musical . Not like other headphones .
Zach knows exactly how to tune headphones 🙂
And Calders with Holo May is simply something else 🔥
I’m for sure not buying a Utopia now lol
Hmmm, maybe wait until you hear the whole story first. Utopia has its quirks but the entire package is VERY compelling. I'll explain why in the next installment of this series.
@@wavetheorysound oh I meant cuz I don’t want to be called a fatso by them! Haha
@@beefsupreme510 bahaha hilarious ❤
Is not the king never was.. ..go to a live symphony concert , listen to the orchestra sound ,especially the warmth of the chords instruments ,susvara doesn’t have it so ,for all of you that listen to electronic music ,pop or electric guitar you might get a bit more resolution in sound that is actually not even there in reality but in all the real live instruments like violin,piano classical guitar susvara lacks natural sound so .. they were never the king especially for 6000 euro
Ta
Totally agree with your amp pairing assessment. I've got both the A90D and the Enleum AMP-23R; the latter absolutely blows the A90D out of the water when technically the A90D could drive it "loud enough" - Susvara sounds DEAD in comparison. Even with the iFi Pro iCAN Sig, just sounds too damn "slow" and mushy, made the Susvara sound like an average headphone.
Bs
@@TitoBarraza ha. You just don't want to hear it.
Bruh you are saying the ifi pro ican a 2k+ dac /amp makes a 6 thousand dollar headphone sound average, you are exaggerating thats why im calling it bs, even with the shittiest dac/amp the susvara could never sound avarage
susvara best avoided,better and easier to listen to and drive out there
it seems best to wait for something to dethrone it that will be easier to drive
Aka you can’t afford a Sus system
@@ellroye7529 nope done better but see no point in wasting cash on headphones that are hard to drive,thats really dumb.
My hypothesis is that the ability to wring the amount of detail and hologrophy out the signal that Susvara can comes at the cost of building drivers that require lots of energy delivery in very short amounts of time - aka power - at least within the current state of driver technologies. I also hypothesize that some day someone will figure out what materials to combine and how to combine them to give us this level of detail or better while requiring less energy per time to do so. I can pretty much guarantee HiFiMan - among others - has been working on that for the last 6 years and haven't found the right combo yet. In the mean time, the HE1000se gets pretty close while being fairly easy to drive. Ditto the Audeze LCD-5. The Focal Utopia is easier to power overall but much more source picky, although the Utopia '22 is a bit more forgiving than its older variants.
@@wavetheorysoundI'm wondering what the Sus really has (except for a slightly different tonality) that the HEKse does not given that HEKse appears to not only address the drivability issue but it also makes bass exciting and on top of that apparently throws a bigger soundstage. This makes me think that the Susvara's main strength is being a reference headphone, which possibly means that it might simply be a bit boring for daily use, whereas the HEKse is like a version of the Susvara that is for actual enjoyment of music.
Is the above guess true to any extent or am I underestimating the differences between them?