Thanks, really appreciate your feedback. I love the kits. They come with everything you need and at the same time offer a little saving. I usually go for the kit instead of just ordering a new front wing and then utilize the gear I don't necessarily need for convenience. I went from changing front wings and stabs to just changing "airplanes" (fuse + stab + wing). Sounds spoilt but it just saves me a lot of time.
@@hoppline I can't afford to just change everything. I might have to go the whole Razor route though. They sound really good for what I do. Which is cruise around and try to ride waves.
@@markyboyclark That's exactly what I bought them for!! We don't get much waves here at my local river spot but there are some tankers and the occasional storm (-: ! Love the PIUMA kit for cruising and will definitely add another mast once I can walk again. It's the lightest set up I ever had and I can really fell the difference. Hope does come up with a short T8 Piuma Fuselage so I can use it for pumping as well once the new Leviathan Pros make it out to the public!
How’s the Piuma mast holding up? I’d like to change my normal 83K mast to the 84Piuma for wing and kitfoil. I also jump a little and wondered if this was going to be a problem, I’m 85kgs-cheers Andy
Hey, funny, I was just about to make a short on this. I had a pretty rough prone foil session yesterday with lots of rock contact and I was SUPER surprised how well the Razor Pro and the PIUMA mast handled the crashes. Some really minor scratches and that's it. I now own the PIUMA 76 and 86 mast and love them. Since I am only 63kg I now use them for everything: Pumping, Prone Foil, Winging, Downwind and FoilDrive. They work great for me and I appreciate the light weight and direct feel. I am not a freestyle professional. I do a few jumps now and then and so far the mast seems to take everything fine. The high modulus carbon is not made for freestyle but I think some regular jumps are okay. Some heavier riders I know do still prefer the regular or the P mast for pumping in terms of twist and bend. I prefer the PIUMA but I think it's a little personal preference. So I guess as long as you are not doing hard core tricks and freestyle you should be fine. Especially if you are using smaller frontwings.
That’s good to know, I’m not into massive airs or freestyle at my age but do the occasional jump. Keen to get one of these HM masts they sound pretty awesome going by your review. Thanks very much 🤙
I have the Sabfoil 1350 and I'm riding it with the V2 Slingshot wing board. I find it rides nose down -- I've tried moving the mast forward but it still tends to ride nose down. I'm going to try shimming the front of the mast go see if that helps. I've also tried the 1350 with the Armstrong DW board and it rides flat -- maybe the board's rocker is the difference? Have you noticed any issues with the Sabfoils you've used with the Slingshot wing board? The board rides fine with the Slingshot foils.
Hey, mine rides fine, but maybe it's the size. I have 60 liter, how much is yours? But things like that do happen if you interchange different brands. I think it is important do make a difference between the lack of front foot pressure and nose down riding. The first can be fixed by moving the mast further to the front (what you did) or in extrem situations by moving your back foot slightly behind the mast. In the second case, and this is probably what you are experiencing, the nose really points down while riding, resulting in an uncomfortable position and sometimes even the nose catching waves or the water surface. In this case you can shim your whole set up by putting an angled plate under your mast. Most brands do not offer these plates but there are a lot of guys out there making 3D printed versions. Hope you get it fixed, there's nothing worse than having a strange feeling while riding.
Thanks for the detailed reply. My Slingshot board is 90 litres and it seems to have a pretty much flat rear rocker. My Slingshot foils work fine with this board. I'd like to try some other Sab foils but I'm hesitant due to the nose down issue. Have you tried theSlingshot 899 front foil? I've heard good things about it. Thanks agin for taking the time.
If it's not too much trouble, can you measure the total overall length of the 76 piuma with the carbon plate? My standard 73 kraken mast in the carbon plate is approximately 76cm overall length. 80cm would be ideal, so I was hoping the 76 piuma would come in closer to 79cm overall as one poster on the fb page shows the 86p is ~3cm longer than the 83k. Would also be interesting to compare the r8 piuma with the r5 back to back to see if it's' worth a total upgrade.
Hey, very good question!! I just did some measuring that really surprised me: The 76 Piuma Mast is 76cm INCLUDING the Kraken Plate. With the Piuma Fuselage ist 77cm from the bottom of the fuselage to the top Kraken plate. On the 73cm Mast it's 73 cm without the Kraken plate und 76 with. From the bottom of the Fuselage to the top of the Kraken plate is roughly 77cm. So it seams the 73cm (normal) Mast and the 76 Piuma Mast will have roughly the same hight once mounted. Had to measure twice to make sure and it not really seems to make sense !!!
Do you think there's enough of a performance gain to simply change the 73k to 76 p with the R8? Or do the thicker 713 and 703 fuselages negate most of the benefits of the p76? I'm specifically looking at foils 875rp, 980 and 1350. I can get the 73k going pretty fast with the b800, but that is very powered up wingfoiling in flat water. So I'm really looking to improve stiffness enough that I can replace both the 73k and modified 19mm axis pump masts with one mast. And equally as important: improve low end drag when getting low on mast downwinding. (I will throw a jump every now an then too, and I've broken both a 713 fuse and carbon plate in the past, so maybe the R6 is too thin for 90-95kg.)
Hey, other people might answer different, but I think when you are looking for top performance, you have to make every gram count. Changing from a 73K to a 76 Piuma will not get you screaming, it's definitely more of a gentle performance improvement. I usually jump on anything that will improve my set up, no matter how small the change is. Changing from stainless to titanium nuts is 20 grams in weight saving, still I would go for it. In the end, it all adds up and once someone picks up the final package, they are surprised how light it is. The thing that would worry me the most is 90 to 95 kg and jumping. The Piuma mast is high modular carbon, stiffer but will break easier on impacts. So not sure if that's a good combo. Depends on the jumps I guess (-:
Appreciate the replies. I am not really concerned with weight on shorter masts like the 73/76 (within reason). Especially if we're not allowed to jump them. I've had other foil kits in the past that were lighter than the razorpro/piuma and at 90+kg we have a lot more leverage against the foil than you lighter pump machines, haha. A little more weight is actually a good thing when learning to downwind in rough seas. I find my modified Axis 19mm alu mast calms the boards roll down quite a bit over the 73k when there's swells rocking you from three different directions and your legs are already jello from trying to paddle up for 10 mins. This all comes down to stiffness and drag for me. I notice a huge difference in drag on the 73k with the big 713 fuselage when going from mid mast to with the foil just below the surface. Which kind of tells me that the fuselage has less to do with overall drag than the mast. And the longer 713 helps balance out 8' and longer dw sup foil boards, would like to see a piuma in that length. I did get to handle a 93cm nolimitz v2 on the beach a couple days ago, and it is significantly stiffer than my 73k even with the 20cm difference in length. Wonder if the piuma is closer to the nolimitz or the standard kraken in terms of stiffness? No limitz is, as I'm sure you know, significantly lighter than the piuma if weight was the number one concern. Hopefully someone (not sponsored) reviews the piuma with a 1350 and a r6 vs r8 with a razor pro back to back soon. @@hoppline
@@lakesidehousebri8323 Hey, great experience you are writing about and the NoLimitz is something I would love to test. I am not sponsored, by the way. I like the Piuma and wish they had a non Kraken option. I did a small downwinder yesterday on the 76 mast and 652 fuselage and it feels very stiff and direct. I was on a Duotone Downwinder SLS and on the beach the local guys were surprised how light the whole set was. I think total weight including the rider matters most, but it still makes a difference how much weight is under your feed. I still have to do a lot more testing...
Hey Dennis, thanks for the feedback (-: ! In terms of riding and feel the Razor Pro and the Medusa Pro are way closer together than I thought they would be. Both are very playful and love to go fast and turn with ease. But they are built for different purposes and have different development criteria. The Medusa Pros are very fast with a very loose feeling and high agility. They sacrifice some low end and glide for more speed and less drag. The Razor Pro in contrast focus on more glide and low end but still try to keep some of the speed and surfy feeling. I will use the Razor Pro mainly for downwind, prone surfing and maybe paddle ups if I ever get that far. The Medusa Pro on the other hand is my go to wingfoil frontwing . Both have their raison d'être ... as much as I wish there was a one foil quiver.
Hi! Thanks for this first review of the Razor Pro 875. I’m hesitating between a SK8 950 from F-One and this Razor. I’d love smthg with a good low-end, fantastic acceleration, nice speed, huge glide and good agility (the perfect foil actually😂). Are you able to compare them? I don’t want an annoying slow foil…Any Whistling? Thanks
@@montiou3749 Unfortunately I did not get the chance to ride the Sk8 950 yet, but I think it will be a very close call. Both frontwings are very similar in size and shape, the Sabfoil being a little wider and the SK8 with a little more surface area. I think they will be very similar in feel and glide, the skate maybe going a little earlier and the Razor Pro a little faster. The thing I would be most concerned about would be breaching and recovery. Looking at the wing curve from a front perspective, the tips of the Sk8 are going slightly up again while the Razor Pros tips are facing more downwards. In my experience upward facing tips can suck air easily and especially at minor breaches with the foil being almost parallel to the water surface are really hard if not impossible to recover. That's for example the only drawback of the PTM line from Slingshot. There's probably only one way to find out: Find some one with first hand experience or get some time on the foil yourself. However you decide, I think both are a great choice and I am happy that we are living in a time with so many fantastic choices (-:
Yeap! I try not to talk about spots here on RUclips, but it's the Rhein. It needs to be treated with care as we have commercial ship lines and we already had one accident and the spot was closed by the government )-:
what a crappy looking Kraken system. so the spacers are only needed to adjust for manufacturing flaws or what? I hav sabfoil and I keep struggling with connectors, various screw length and screw heads. no man. need to demo an armstrong soon. sorry. not here to troll. am I the only guy here to struggle?
Hey Stef, you are definitely not alone!! The Kraken System is love and hate for me too!! The need for spacers and adjustment is not so much manufacturing flaws, it's more the use of carbon and the production process which is, in its nature, just not as precise as a CNC metal production. I love the Kraken system for its convenience, especially right now in the winter. But like you mentioned, it's a lot of screws and it does take some time to set up. I usually re-adjust my set after a few sessions and then everything works pretty smooth, but I get your point. Further I wish Sabfoil would unify there system and screws a little bit, it's a mix of M6 and M8 on various fuselages and even the length is not the same. They could at least print the screw metrics on the fuselage and frontwings. With my mix of gear from other brands finding the right screws can be a real pain and more than once I was on the spot and something was missing. In a perfect world, all brands would agree on one system, let's say M8 with TX30 head, but I guess that's not going to happen.
@@stefbadstuber9274 Would love to demo Armstrong myself!! Got my hands on the Armstrong wing, pretty solid but unfortunately did not get on the water.....next time.
Love the video. It seems so hard to find anyone making vids on the Sabfoil kit these days.
Thanks, really appreciate your feedback. I love the kits. They come with everything you need and at the same time offer a little saving. I usually go for the kit instead of just ordering a new front wing and then utilize the gear I don't necessarily need for convenience. I went from changing front wings and stabs to just changing "airplanes" (fuse + stab + wing). Sounds spoilt but it just saves me a lot of time.
@@hoppline I can't afford to just change everything. I might have to go the whole Razor route though. They sound really good for what I do. Which is cruise around and try to ride waves.
@@markyboyclark That's exactly what I bought them for!! We don't get much waves here at my local river spot but there are some tankers and the occasional storm (-: ! Love the PIUMA kit for cruising and will definitely add another mast once I can walk again. It's the lightest set up I ever had and I can really fell the difference. Hope does come up with a short T8 Piuma Fuselage so I can use it for pumping as well once the new Leviathan Pros make it out to the public!
@@hoppline I hope you get better soon.
@@markyboyclark 🙏
How’s the Piuma mast holding up? I’d like to change my normal 83K mast to the 84Piuma for wing and kitfoil. I also jump a little and wondered if this was going to be a problem, I’m 85kgs-cheers Andy
Hey, funny, I was just about to make a short on this. I had a pretty rough prone foil session yesterday with lots of rock contact and I was SUPER surprised how well the Razor Pro and the PIUMA mast handled the crashes. Some really minor scratches and that's it. I now own the PIUMA 76 and 86 mast and love them. Since I am only 63kg I now use them for everything: Pumping, Prone Foil, Winging, Downwind and FoilDrive. They work great for me and I appreciate the light weight and direct feel. I am not a freestyle professional. I do a few jumps now and then and so far the mast seems to take everything fine. The high modulus carbon is not made for freestyle but I think some regular jumps are okay. Some heavier riders I know do still prefer the regular or the P mast for pumping in terms of twist and bend. I prefer the PIUMA but I think it's a little personal preference. So I guess as long as you are not doing hard core tricks and freestyle you should be fine. Especially if you are using smaller frontwings.
That’s good to know, I’m not into massive airs or freestyle at my age but do the occasional jump. Keen to get one of these HM masts they sound pretty awesome going by your review. Thanks very much 🤙
I have the Sabfoil 1350 and I'm riding it with the V2 Slingshot wing board. I find it rides nose down -- I've tried moving the mast forward but it still tends to ride nose down. I'm going to try shimming the front of the mast go see if that helps. I've also tried the 1350 with the Armstrong DW board and it rides flat -- maybe the board's rocker is the difference? Have you noticed any issues with the Sabfoils you've used with the Slingshot wing board? The board rides fine with the Slingshot foils.
Hey, mine rides fine, but maybe it's the size. I have 60 liter, how much is yours? But things like that do happen if you interchange different brands. I think it is important do make a difference between the lack of front foot pressure and nose down riding. The first can be fixed by moving the mast further to the front (what you did) or in extrem situations by moving your back foot slightly behind the mast. In the second case, and this is probably what you are experiencing, the nose really points down while riding, resulting in an uncomfortable position and sometimes even the nose catching waves or the water surface. In this case you can shim your whole set up by putting an angled plate under your mast. Most brands do not offer these plates but there are a lot of guys out there making 3D printed versions. Hope you get it fixed, there's nothing worse than having a strange feeling while riding.
Thanks for the detailed reply. My Slingshot board is 90 litres and it seems to have a pretty much flat rear rocker. My Slingshot foils work fine with this board. I'd like to try some other Sab foils but I'm hesitant due to the nose down issue. Have you tried theSlingshot 899 front foil? I've heard good things about it. Thanks agin for taking the time.
If it's not too much trouble, can you measure the total overall length of the 76 piuma with the carbon plate? My standard 73 kraken mast in the carbon plate is approximately 76cm overall length. 80cm would be ideal, so I was hoping the 76 piuma would come in closer to 79cm overall as one poster on the fb page shows the 86p is ~3cm longer than the 83k. Would also be interesting to compare the r8 piuma with the r5 back to back to see if it's' worth a total upgrade.
Hey, very good question!! I just did some measuring that really surprised me: The 76 Piuma Mast is 76cm INCLUDING the Kraken Plate. With the Piuma Fuselage ist 77cm from the bottom of the fuselage to the top Kraken plate. On the 73cm Mast it's 73 cm without the Kraken plate und 76 with. From the bottom of the Fuselage to the top of the Kraken plate is roughly 77cm. So it seams the 73cm (normal) Mast and the 76 Piuma Mast will have roughly the same hight once mounted. Had to measure twice to make sure and it not really seems to make sense !!!
Do you think there's enough of a performance gain to simply change the 73k to 76 p with the R8? Or do the thicker 713 and 703 fuselages negate most of the benefits of the p76? I'm specifically looking at foils 875rp, 980 and 1350. I can get the 73k going pretty fast with the b800, but that is very powered up wingfoiling in flat water. So I'm really looking to improve stiffness enough that I can replace both the 73k and modified 19mm axis pump masts with one mast. And equally as important: improve low end drag when getting low on mast downwinding. (I will throw a jump every now an then too, and I've broken both a 713 fuse and carbon plate in the past, so maybe the R6 is too thin for 90-95kg.)
Hey, other people might answer different, but I think when you are looking for top performance, you have to make every gram count. Changing from a 73K to a 76 Piuma will not get you screaming, it's definitely more of a gentle performance improvement. I usually jump on anything that will improve my set up, no matter how small the change is. Changing from stainless to titanium nuts is 20 grams in weight saving, still I would go for it. In the end, it all adds up and once someone picks up the final package, they are surprised how light it is. The thing that would worry me the most is 90 to 95 kg and jumping. The Piuma mast is high modular carbon, stiffer but will break easier on impacts. So not sure if that's a good combo. Depends on the jumps I guess (-:
Appreciate the replies. I am not really concerned with weight on shorter masts like the 73/76 (within reason). Especially if we're not allowed to jump them. I've had other foil kits in the past that were lighter than the razorpro/piuma and at 90+kg we have a lot more leverage against the foil than you lighter pump machines, haha. A little more weight is actually a good thing when learning to downwind in rough seas. I find my modified Axis 19mm alu mast calms the boards roll down quite a bit over the 73k when there's swells rocking you from three different directions and your legs are already jello from trying to paddle up for 10 mins.
This all comes down to stiffness and drag for me. I notice a huge difference in drag on the 73k with the big 713 fuselage when going from mid mast to with the foil just below the surface. Which kind of tells me that the fuselage has less to do with overall drag than the mast. And the longer 713 helps balance out 8' and longer dw sup foil boards, would like to see a piuma in that length.
I did get to handle a 93cm nolimitz v2 on the beach a couple days ago, and it is significantly stiffer than my 73k even with the 20cm difference in length. Wonder if the piuma is closer to the nolimitz or the standard kraken in terms of stiffness? No limitz is, as I'm sure you know, significantly lighter than the piuma if weight was the number one concern.
Hopefully someone (not sponsored) reviews the piuma with a 1350 and a r6 vs r8 with a razor pro back to back soon.
@@hoppline
@@lakesidehousebri8323 Hey, great experience you are writing about and the NoLimitz is something I would love to test. I am not sponsored, by the way. I like the Piuma and wish they had a non Kraken option. I did a small downwinder yesterday on the 76 mast and 652 fuselage and it feels very stiff and direct. I was on a Duotone Downwinder SLS and on the beach the local guys were surprised how light the whole set was. I think total weight including the rider matters most, but it still makes a difference how much weight is under your feed. I still have to do a lot more testing...
Nice review…How do you compare it to the Medusa pro? In terms of speed / glide / lowend
Hey Dennis, thanks for the feedback (-: ! In terms of riding and feel the Razor Pro and the Medusa Pro are way closer together than I thought they would be. Both are very playful and love to go fast and turn with ease. But they are built for different purposes and have different development criteria. The Medusa Pros are very fast with a very loose feeling and high agility. They sacrifice some low end and glide for more speed and less drag. The Razor Pro in contrast focus on more glide and low end but still try to keep some of the speed and surfy feeling. I will use the Razor Pro mainly for downwind, prone surfing and maybe paddle ups if I ever get that far. The Medusa Pro on the other hand is my go to wingfoil frontwing . Both have their raison d'être ... as much as I wish there was a one foil quiver.
Hi! Thanks for this first review of the Razor Pro 875. I’m hesitating between a SK8 950 from F-One and this Razor. I’d love smthg with a good low-end, fantastic acceleration, nice speed, huge glide and good agility (the perfect foil actually😂). Are you able to compare them? I don’t want an annoying slow foil…Any Whistling? Thanks
@@montiou3749 Unfortunately I did not get the chance to ride the Sk8 950 yet, but I think it will be a very close call. Both frontwings are very similar in size and shape, the Sabfoil being a little wider and the SK8 with a little more surface area. I think they will be very similar in feel and glide, the skate maybe going a little earlier and the Razor Pro a little faster. The thing I would be most concerned about would be breaching and recovery. Looking at the wing curve from a front perspective, the tips of the Sk8 are going slightly up again while the Razor Pros tips are facing more downwards. In my experience upward facing tips can suck air easily and especially at minor breaches with the foil being almost parallel to the water surface are really hard if not impossible to recover. That's for example the only drawback of the PTM line from Slingshot. There's probably only one way to find out: Find some one with first hand experience or get some time on the foil yourself. However you decide, I think both are a great choice and I am happy that we are living in a time with so many fantastic choices (-:
nice
Thanks 🙏
Is this the river Rhine in Germany?
Yeap! I try not to talk about spots here on RUclips, but it's the Rhein. It needs to be treated with care as we have commercial ship lines and we already had one accident and the spot was closed by the government )-:
@@hoppline ok thank you. I know a few spots at the rhine and also the Main.
what a crappy looking Kraken system. so the spacers are only needed to adjust for manufacturing flaws or what? I hav sabfoil and I keep struggling with connectors, various screw length and screw heads. no man. need to demo an armstrong soon. sorry. not here to troll. am I the only guy here to struggle?
Hey Stef, you are definitely not alone!! The Kraken System is love and hate for me too!! The need for spacers and adjustment is not so much manufacturing flaws, it's more the use of carbon and the production process which is, in its nature, just not as precise as a CNC metal production. I love the Kraken system for its convenience, especially right now in the winter. But like you mentioned, it's a lot of screws and it does take some time to set up. I usually re-adjust my set after a few sessions and then everything works pretty smooth, but I get your point. Further I wish Sabfoil would unify there system and screws a little bit, it's a mix of M6 and M8 on various fuselages and even the length is not the same. They could at least print the screw metrics on the fuselage and frontwings. With my mix of gear from other brands finding the right screws can be a real pain and more than once I was on the spot and something was missing. In a perfect world, all brands would agree on one system, let's say M8 with TX30 head, but I guess that's not going to happen.
fully agree. not to mention torx and allen key and what not. I have to admit I am curious to try demo an armstrong@@hoppline
@@stefbadstuber9274 Would love to demo Armstrong myself!! Got my hands on the Armstrong wing, pretty solid but unfortunately did not get on the water.....next time.