Lee Changho will be the Ratings once and future king. NObody in today's game is likely to be the top player for 15 years solid again. His hayday was 1991-2006 that's a hell of a reign on top. However, we do suffer from the ratings not being around for Go Seigen's prime. He would be the ratings' king of all times. He was basically the top player in the world undisputed from 1942-1961. There was only one match that he really lost in that 20 year stretch. Go Seigen's Elo Rating was estimated in the mid 1960's at 3200-3300, which would have been good enough for the top spots until the 1980's. However, the ratings were estimated for the mid 1960's and 70's for him. That was after he had a major head injury and never recovered from it. Seigen was hit by motorcycle and his strength never recovered. He lost at least 2 stones effective strength in sustained play. How do we know this? 1976 match with Sakata Eio -- Dominated Eio. and 1972 tournament match against Fujisawa Shuko (Elo over 3300) He forced Shuko to resign halfway through the game and was beating him by over 30pts. So, in a "throwback" game where Go Seigen was playing like he used to, he easily plays 3 stones above another 3300+ rated 9P.] I'd say, given that in the upper rankings, that 200-250 pts equals one stone of difference minimum, that Go Seigen, playing 2-3 stones above other 9P's in the 1950's equates to a 3500-* rating
@@paysonfox88 You can't go prior to 1974. Otherwise where would you draw the line? Go has thousands of years of history. Is the guy who performed the ear-reddening game worse than any of the players on this list? Or the person who won the blood-vomitting game? Those guys may have been the world #1 for their entire life.
Although most viewers focus on the Rank 1 players, this video actually tells stories of many other players. Why rise? Why drop? If you spend time on searching, you can discover the interesting world of professional Go game. As a Chinese, the video recalls many historic scenes of Chinese Go players to me. Nie Weiping, who was the best non-Japanese player in 80's, is a genius. He found his way to defeat best Japanese players, which was unbelievable at that time, considering the Japanese' long-time domination and China's circumstance in 80s. He led the revival of Chinese Go. However, his rise towards rank 1 ended when he was defeated by Cho Hun-hyun in the 1st Ing cup in 1989. Meanwhile, a challenging young Chinese player, Qian Yuping, rose and dropped in a short time. He retired from the final of 4th Fujitsu Cup in 1991 due to mental disorder, and he never recovered after 1994, which was a tragedy. Later on, Ma Xiaochun, Chang Hao and Gu Li, those best players of China were unable to beat Lee Changho and Lee Sedol. However a relatively unfamous player, Xie He, bursted in 2005-2007 and became the first rank 1 Chinese player. His performance did not last long and the ranking was dominated by Lee Sedol again. Although Ke Jie is the best player now, we cannot forget the effort of former Chinese players. They reawoke the Chinese' enthusiam towards Go and one young man finally reached the peak.
Cho chikun is a korean go player. He only worked in Japan as a member of the Japan Go Association. Since the Korean Go world was not active at the time, he studied abroad in Japan and won over Japan as a Korean.
There was not global match until 1988, just Japanese players were included. So this data have been valid from 1988. Actually Cho hun hyun have been top player from 1980.
The funny part is, despite Lee Changho no longer being #1, he and others still agree he's stronger as a player than ever before. He wasn't just dominating, he was leading professional go to a new era with significantly higher skill level as thousands of people aspired to catch up to him.
Wish I understood the system they used. People's ratings going up while playing no games, someone shooting up to 3rd best in the world with a 0-1 record...
Gastogh it's the Elo rating, if you're as 8th and you beat 1st, you gain lot of points, however, if 2 players with almost equal rating win or lose against each other, not much point is gain or lost
One more example. Ke Jie's rating at the end of this video(March 16, 2016) is 3621 and his current rating on goratings.org is 3646. Did Ke Jie's Go suddenly get much better? It's hard to say that at his level, a human can really get intrinsically much better. If we check his rating for March 16 2016 now however, it says that Ke Jie's rating on March 16 is actually 3641. This means that he actually improved very modestly from last year, which makes more sense. In the ELO system, you might have much more wild jumps that are not very representative of a player's *true* skill.
Cho Chikun is a Korean player and should be labelled as such. Although he is part of the Japanese Go association because he moved to Japan at a young age, he still holds Korean citizenship to this day
@@CallOn84 왜냐하면 바둑은 협회기준으로 나누기 때문입니다. 한국,일본,중국,대만, 4개국에서 6개의 협회로 나뉘어져 있었습니다. 일본은 일본기원과 관서기원, 대만은 대만기원과 해봉기원으로 모두 6개의 협회로 나누어져 있었고 국적 상관없이 기원 기준으로 표기가 되기 때문에 조치훈의 국적은 한국이어도 일본기원 소속이라 일본표기가 되는 겁니다.
I thought you said Cho Hunhyun, at the age of 15, overtook Lee Changho, which baffled me for a while... You should replace "who" with "whom" in your sentence so that it won't be misunderstood.
The flag shows the go association that a player belongs to. Cho Chikun is a member of Japan Go Association. There are also other players whose nationality is not identical to the go association, e.g., Rin Kaiho, Ō Rissei, etc.
1982 - first player in top-10 not from Japan (China) 1988 - first #1 not from Japan (Cho Hunhyun, Korea) 1994 - all three best players not from Japan 1995 - all four best players not from Japan 1996 - all three best player from Korea 1998 - all eight best players not from Japan 1999 - only one player from Japan in top-10 (#8) 2000 - zero players from Japan in top-10. Six from Korea and 4 from China. 2006 - first top-ranked player from China 2015 October - Google AlphaGo #2 in top-10
+Justice Kim, I think sorin joij want to say that this can be misunderstood. For example, '1982- first player in top-10 not belong to Japan Go Association' is correct, but '1982- first player in top-10 not Japanese' isn't.
+sorin joij Cho is native Korean, but he moved to study Go in Japan as a child, so he's really a Japanese player, because he is a product of the Japanese system and continues to play in Japan.
+Kim Jay Go Seigen and Dosaku are the biggest legends imo. Go Seigen dominated 1930-1960 and Dosaku had to give 2 stones, and both progressed go theory more than anyone except maybe Huang Longshi. Imo those 3 are in a league of their own then there's guys like Lee ChangHo, Shusaku, Jowa etc.
+DragonfistGaming Indeed yes, but in my opinion, Lee is still the best because he won so many games against godlike Chinese, Japanese and Korean go players like it was nothing. Early 1900s or before would not be a good example to compare as then it was not so competitive. I must agree that if we have to pick one country for the greatness would be Japan for sure.
Considering that Cho Chikun is Korean (though he played (and still does) in Japanese league) this is pure Korean dominance. The current champion is Jinseo Shin (has been for a few years now) and he dominates as well. It’s a bit of a downer for Korea that (although he is a great player) Ke Jie was the world champion when all this alphago hype was going around. His dominance lasted for four years while Koreans really dominated the field for the past 42 years since Chikun Cho got his championship in 1980.
vdxhtx bgfc Maybe, but for now it appears to be only beneficial. Before the wide-spread use of the internet, it was predicted that those with access to it could become immensely knowledgeably. This is an example of how this has come to fruition.
+Jong Bhak Indeed, but because he learned in Japan, most of his activities were in Japan, and he lives in Japan, I believe there should be both Korean and Japanese flag, not just Korean.
@@illarionbykov7401 if so, is Lionel Messi Spanish? He still holds Korean nationality and thinks himself as Korean. Why do you arbitrarily define him as Japanese?
@@Usmyid0n He lives and plays in Japan in Japanese leagues and has a Japanese wife and daughter who think they are Japanese and he was trained by Japanese masters to play a Japanese style and represents Japan in international tournaments. Why do you arbitrarily claim he is not Japanese? Do you also arbitrarily think Obama is Kenyan?
Very well done. I have so much more respect for Lee Chang Ho. Number one player. Top ten place for 22 years starting at age 13. Number one player for 15 years, and top ten for additional five years after losing first ranking world wide.
you need to see Changho's Shanghai sweeping victories. And many Chinese players studied him a lot. So did Ke Jie as well. At that time, Chinese people didn't know their president name but Changho Lee. There are many legendary players but only Changho Lee is called a living God, not legend but God. And In Korean, that is 신산(神算) See : ruclips.net/video/tgv8NUUB9iw/видео.html
It also shows how harder it gets staying at the top after 30 years of age. Decades ago you even saw some 50 or almost 60 year olds in top 10. Competition got more international and more young people played the game at professional level it seemed.
It's the power of neural networks. They can be used to make good Go playing software (like we saw in the video), and also to give good video recommendations!
Two facts. 1. Cho chikun is korean. but his Go group is japan. 2nd. Untill 1988, Korean competition results were not reflected in world elo points. The reason was maybe japanese ignore koreans. But 1988, at world major Go competition, (in korean "응씨배 세계 바둑 선수권 대회", in chinese "應氏杯世界職業圍棋錦標賽") Cho Hunhyun win this competition. Then the Japanese suddenly put Joe Hoon-hyun in the rankings. When he is 35 years. In fact, 1970s and 1980s were Cho Hunhyun's times. Normally, Go player's golden age is 10~20s or 30s. And his rankging was 6th untill his age 50. it is very very surprising record. If Korean Go was not ignored because korean national power at 1970s and 1980s, Cho Hunhyun maintained ranking no.1 for about 20 years or more.
Am I the only one who likes the timing when the Kobayashi comes first again at 1:41 and then Cho Hunhyun appears just after? The background music and the sudden appearance comes in well
자연인 조치훈의 국적은 한국이 맞으나 조치훈의 소속기원이 일본 기원이기 때문에 일본소속으로 나온 것일 뿐입니다. 실제로 조치훈은 한국에서도 병역법에 저촉되는 행위 때문에 문제가 되었습니다만 일본 명인전에서 우승하며 명인 타이틀을 달고 나서 귀국, 정부에서 병역을 면제시켜주었습니다.
All these nerds explaining "go" side of story of why Japan lost its place.....without a single bit consideration of history? Before the 80's China was recovering many many centuries of poverty, ww2 and civil war right after that. Not to mention cultural revolution. Korea is recovering from Korean War as well as ww2. Who the fuck would have the luxury of playing go for a living in those ages. Japan was the safe haven for go community, that's why it was dominating, by simply having no international competitor what so ever, Not because people from other countries got good. Pls.
I recommend adding the tidbit informations at the end. Like who held the title for the longest amount of days, who was the youngest player to take it, what was the average age of the top 10, etc.
You can take the top 3-5 players from every era/century starting from the 16th century-to present day 2022 and come to the conclusion that there is no greatest of all time when it comes to Go. But just like every competitive high level professional game, there are the greatest of every era. Each great player from every era has done something incredible to solidify themselves in history as the greatest of their time and their playstyles and moves are studied and applied to today's game only to be evolved and refined to the next generation so that they may create modern day moves that are original based off of their predecessors. The game is timeless.
South Korea's population is about only %40 of Japan's and comprises a mere %3 of China's pop. and yet they dominate Go...This reveals an undeniable truth that Koreans are really good at the game of Go. I'm thinking there are amazing players in NK as well.
Japanese people play shogi as well. The number of shogi players in Japan is estimated to be about three times as large as that of go players. So the chances are, the most intelligent Japanese people likely play shogi.
+Rui Si I I think Because everyone's score also becomes higher. In 1974 Jan 1, #1 is 3260 and #10 is 3050 In 1995 Jan 2, #1 is 3513 and #10 is 3292 In 2016 Mar 16, #1 is 3621 and #10 is 3498
Nostalgia. I am a 90's Kid and at that time, GOH(BahDook, In korean) was huge In Korea inspired by Lee Chang-Ho and his teacher and rival Cho HoonHyun. I learned at local GOH academies to hope one day I will be like them. Oh, and Cho ChiHoon, was also my hero too. In this video, His name is Cho ChiKun. He is Korean-Japanese, born in Korea. Chikun is a japanese pronouncing of his korean name. His uncle who has connections of Japanese GOH industry sent him to Japan when he was 5 yrs to study latest fashion of GOH. After he changed his nationality. In Old days, Japan ruled GOH. Now, Google.
weee50 and the 2020's when movie trailers became absolute shit, and when memes were rancid just like 10 year olds, and when people fell into ditches trying to catch fictional creatures in their poopy phones which aren't better than the last versions (take the hint, apple fans.)
It's so incredible for Alphago to take on all the Go human gods and beat them all like they're nothing. It was a humbling experience for Ke Jie 2 years later. No one can catch up to AlphaGo Zero and the meaning of the game completely changed.
The reason why Japan GO has moved away from the world rankings since the 2000s is because Japanese pro GO players play only in Japan. They do not like to lose to Chinese and Korean players, and that's because the Japanese corporate sponsors in the contest will not support the Japanese GO tournament. In fact, even though the Japanese player is in Japan to contest the world tournament, the GO Association of Japan is still preventing it from entering.
+David Collins Hmm, considering the slide says Lee Sedol has played 10k games in >~20? years and AlphaGo has played 100k games, by extrapolation that would make AlphaGo >~200 human years old if games are played at the same rate as a human could play them. And considering it took AlphaGo 100k Go games of experience to beat Lee Sedol, the human is *still* a vastly more efficient learning machine than AlphaGo. No doubt, that learning disparity will shrink with time.
Lee Changho = 15.5 years
Lee Sedol = 5.2 years
Park Junghwan = 1.2 years, then 1.6 years
Ke Jie = 1.6 years
AGZ: the whole future.
Lee Chang Ho..nearly 20 freaking years
what an absolute beast.
even the same Korean can't believe it :)
The Kasparov of Go XD
Number One holder for 5600 days, Lee Changho is Crazy!
Emily Ng chinese xiehe break his record
reply to 亮喻
@@亮喻 Actually no. He only broke his streak and not his record. Lee Changho is still on record for the #1 place
@@엄희철-v4m lol chill out.
Lee Chang Ho is not crazy.
Lee Changho, wow. At 15 he takes the number one spot and holds it for nearly a decade. Damn.
Over a decade*
For 15 years.
Faker's Dad
5606 days.
*12 years
Lee Changho the 'Stone Buddha' was on this chart from the age of 13 to 35 - of which he was #1 from age 15 to 30.
Lee ChangHo and Lee SeDol are the best in the modern history of Go.
and now it's shin jinseo c:
@@sebastianbal1008 right
Kato Masao - 1270 days
Lee Sedol - 1927 days
Cho Chikun - 2927 days
Lee Changho - 5606 days
rank 1,2,3 all korean
wow
Lee Changho will be the Ratings once and future king. NObody in today's game is likely to be the top player for 15 years solid again.
His hayday was 1991-2006 that's a hell of a reign on top.
However, we do suffer from the ratings not being around for Go Seigen's prime. He would be the ratings' king of all times. He was basically the top player in the world undisputed from 1942-1961. There was only one match that he really lost in that 20 year stretch.
Go Seigen's Elo Rating was estimated in the mid 1960's at 3200-3300, which would have been good enough for the top spots until the 1980's. However, the ratings were estimated for the mid 1960's and 70's for him. That was after he had a major head injury and never recovered from it. Seigen was hit by motorcycle and his strength never recovered. He lost at least 2 stones effective strength in sustained play.
How do we know this? 1976 match with Sakata Eio -- Dominated Eio. and 1972 tournament match against Fujisawa Shuko (Elo over 3300) He forced Shuko to resign halfway through the game and was beating him by over 30pts.
So, in a "throwback" game where Go Seigen was playing like he used to, he easily plays 3 stones above another 3300+ rated 9P.]
I'd say, given that in the upper rankings, that 200-250 pts equals one stone of difference minimum, that Go Seigen, playing 2-3 stones above other 9P's in the 1950's equates to a 3500-* rating
you forgot Kobayashi!
@@paysonfox88 You can't go prior to 1974. Otherwise where would you draw the line? Go has thousands of years of history. Is the guy who performed the ear-reddening game worse than any of the players on this list? Or the person who won the blood-vomitting game? Those guys may have been the world #1 for their entire life.
I love how the beat drops and then the Koreans take over.
It's on purpose lol
Although most viewers focus on the Rank 1 players, this video actually tells stories of many other players. Why rise? Why drop? If you spend time on searching, you can discover the interesting world of professional Go game. As a Chinese, the video recalls many historic scenes of Chinese Go players to me.
Nie Weiping, who was the best non-Japanese player in 80's, is a genius. He found his way to defeat best Japanese players, which was unbelievable at that time, considering the Japanese' long-time domination and China's circumstance in 80s. He led the revival of Chinese Go.
However, his rise towards rank 1 ended when he was defeated by Cho Hun-hyun in the 1st Ing cup in 1989. Meanwhile, a challenging young Chinese player, Qian Yuping, rose and dropped in a short time. He retired from the final of 4th Fujitsu Cup in 1991 due to mental disorder, and he never recovered after 1994, which was a tragedy.
Later on, Ma Xiaochun, Chang Hao and Gu Li, those best players of China were unable to beat Lee Changho and Lee Sedol. However a relatively unfamous player, Xie He, bursted in 2005-2007 and became the first rank 1 Chinese player. His performance did not last long and the ranking was dominated by Lee Sedol again.
Although Ke Jie is the best player now, we cannot forget the effort of former Chinese players. They reawoke the Chinese' enthusiam towards Go and one young man finally reached the peak.
Agree. Nie was definitely a national hero at that time. I still remember the first time I got to know him was from a commercial advertisement lol
Agree. It's actually intense seeing 2-3 players beat each other several times
Frank Chen q
Got 51 new braincells while reading this
He actually can be more, if he join more world competitions
Cho chikun is a korean go player. He only worked in Japan as a member of the Japan Go Association. Since the Korean Go world was not active at the time, he studied abroad in Japan and won over Japan as a Korean.
Lee Chang Ho is God
+lhakasel 5600+ days - that's insane.
+Ananya Gupta 5604 to be precise...legend...
At 30, the dude spent half of his life n°1 !
He started on 13 Yrs old
Wrong , it's get top 10 at 13 years old
That's mean he's started before , maybe years
이창호 15살때 정상 찍은게 더 소름...저때만해도 30살 전후가 전성기라했슴..지금이야 인터넷 발달하면서 기보 공유하고 교류 많아지면서 전성기 나이대가 어려졌지만...하여튼 혼자 방구석에서 연구해서 15살 나이에 세상을 평정한 무협지같은 이야기....
There was not global match until 1988, just Japanese players were included.
So this data have been valid from 1988.
Actually Cho hun hyun have been top player from 1980.
약간 소름돋는 장면이 몇개 있는데 그중 하나는 갑자기 조훈현 9단의 등장과 함께 2위에서 1위 또다른 하나는 1위를 달리고 있는사이에 이창호9단이 마치 계주를 보듯 바턴받고 1위자리 올라가는거 뒤에 이세돌9단까지 한국바둑 화이팅
개소름 ㅇㅈ
박정환도 받고
@@자연자연여행 이제는 신진서가 세계1위 탈환했습니다. 2020년 9월9일.
The funny part is, despite Lee Changho no longer being #1, he and others still agree he's stronger as a player than ever before.
He wasn't just dominating, he was leading professional go to a new era with significantly higher skill level as thousands of people aspired to catch up to him.
Lee chang ho ruled in go history for 16 years! Lee chang ho is god!
Today world has faced of the newcomer GOD named as ENGINE!!!
You aren't Donald Trump- probably.
Zero would hand him his arse on a silver platter. 😊
얘는 닉넴은 도날드 트럼프인데 프사는 왜 대한민국 검찰이냐정체성에 혼란을 겪는 아이인가
천호진임 심영아닙니다.
Fake account
Wish I understood the system they used. People's ratings going up while playing no games, someone shooting up to 3rd best in the world with a 0-1 record...
Gastogh it's the Elo rating, if you're as 8th and you beat 1st, you gain lot of points, however, if 2 players with almost equal rating win or lose against each other, not much point is gain or lost
One more example.
Ke Jie's rating at the end of this video(March 16, 2016) is 3621 and his current rating on goratings.org is 3646. Did Ke Jie's Go suddenly get much better? It's hard to say that at his level, a human can really get intrinsically much better.
If we check his rating for March 16 2016 now however, it says that Ke Jie's rating on March 16 is actually 3641. This means that he actually improved very modestly from last year, which makes more sense.
In the ELO system, you might have much more wild jumps that are not very representative of a player's *true* skill.
Amazing Lee Changho.
He is absolutely magnificient go player of all-time go history ever.
Why is this video so satisfying I don't even play go
Dude yes. So much history in a few bar charts and I don't even play the game. Wish there was some documentary on Go champions!
Very intense too!
Go is more than a game，
In ancient China and Japan it was more about culture and art
Modern go only focuses on competition，
Even chess is being compared，
Very funny,
Because of the music.
세고에 겐사쿠의 3명의 제자
1. 하시모토 우타로(관서기원 창립자)
2. 우칭위안(1차혁명)-린하이펑,루이나이웨이
3. 조훈현(세계제패)-이창호(2차혁명)
바둑계 소수정예, 가장 빵빵한 문파
이창호 9단은 저렇게 어린 나이에 저렇게 오랫동안 세계랭킹 1위 찍은게 무슨 바둑 소재 영화나 만화 주인공같네 ㄷㄷㄷ
Cho Chikun is a Korean player and should be labelled as such. Although he is part of the Japanese Go association because he moved to Japan at a young age, he still holds Korean citizenship to this day
But he would be still playing under Japan as he plays under the Japanese association, no? He maybe Korean, but he plays for Japan.
@@CallOn84 왜냐하면 바둑은 협회기준으로 나누기 때문입니다. 한국,일본,중국,대만, 4개국에서 6개의 협회로 나뉘어져 있었습니다. 일본은 일본기원과 관서기원, 대만은 대만기원과 해봉기원으로 모두 6개의 협회로 나누어져 있었고 국적 상관없이 기원 기준으로 표기가 되기 때문에 조치훈의 국적은 한국이어도 일본기원 소속이라 일본표기가 되는 겁니다.
@@jonghoshin958 그렇게 생각했는데 그 사람이 무슨 말을하는지 모르겠습니다. 모든 스포츠에서 당신이 연맹/조직을 위해 뛸 때 당신은 그 나라에서 태어났는지 여부에 관계없이 그 나라를 대표합니다.
@@jonghoshin958 비슷한 경우로는 루이나이웨이, 장주주 도한 해서 한국기원에 있을때도 같은 맥락이었죠..
니 말이 맞음
Fun fact, cho Hunhyun was the trainer of lee changho, who overtook him at the age of 15.... wow
I thought you said Cho Hunhyun, at the age of 15, overtook Lee Changho, which baffled me for a while...
You should replace "who" with "whom" in your sentence so that it won't be misunderstood.
@@HD-fy2wu bro stfu this was 4 years ago
The flag shows the go association that a player belongs to. Cho Chikun is a member of Japan Go Association. There are also other players whose nationality is not identical to the go association, e.g., Rin Kaiho, Ō Rissei, etc.
Lee Chang Hoさんは１６年間チャムプだったのか・・すごいいね！
Godlike Lee Chang Ho
조훈현이 진짜 전설이지... 50살이 되도 top 10에 들었는데 ㄷㄷ;;
@@김싸비-b4l그걸 고려해도 50대에 10대20대들이랑 비볐다는 자체가 엄청난거죠...
기계바둑 이창호
노장 조훈현
변화구 이세돌
국뽕 안좋아하는데 ㄹㅇ 웅장해진다
시대 따지면 저 옛날 그 대한민국에서 저 나이로 랭커단건 ㄹㅇ대단한듯..
한국 바둑을 알린 사람
为什么韩国棋院书上有汉字
바둑은 소속기원으로 국가대항전을 하기 때문에 조치훈 기사님은 저렇게 표시되는게 맞습니다.
맞긴 개뿔은... 응창치배할때 한국에 달랑 2장주는데 한명이 조훈현이고 다른 한명은 조치훈이 나갔슴.
당시에 한국은 바둑약채로 인식되었고 조훈현 기사만이 한장 받고 가서 우승한 이후부터 한국바둑이 인정받기 시작한걸로 압니다
조치훈 기사님은 일본기원 소속 맞습니다
만역 조훈현이 군면제 되서 일본에 계속 있었다면? 이창호가 나올수 있었을까? 새옹지마😺
전화위복😼
맨 위 알지 못하면서 우기기 ㅋ
Lee Changho held the WR for 15 god-damned years? Holy shit!
1982 - first player in top-10 not from Japan (China)
1988 - first #1 not from Japan (Cho Hunhyun, Korea)
1994 - all three best players not from Japan
1995 - all four best players not from Japan
1996 - all three best player from Korea
1998 - all eight best players not from Japan
1999 - only one player from Japan in top-10 (#8)
2000 - zero players from Japan in top-10. Six from Korea and 4 from China.
2006 - first top-ranked player from China
2015 October - Google AlphaGo #2 in top-10
+t.r. - Basically all international Go era belongs to Korean players. Except the last 2 years where finally China gave a birth to a no.1 player.
+konstantin604 Cho Chihun(not Cho Chikun) is Korean player. He is just belong to Japan Go Association.
+Justice Kim, I think sorin joij want to say that this can be misunderstood. For example, '1982- first player in top-10 not belong to Japan Go Association' is correct, but '1982- first player in top-10 not Japanese' isn't.
+sorin joij Cho is native Korean, but he moved to study Go in Japan as a child, so he's really a Japanese player, because he is a product of the Japanese system and continues to play in Japan.
+DarthJF However, he still holds Korean nationality.
Lee Chanho is the one and only legend in Go history.
+Kim Jay u forgot Go Seigen
+Kim Jay Go Seigen and Dosaku are the biggest legends imo. Go Seigen dominated
1930-1960 and Dosaku had to give 2 stones, and both progressed go theory
more than anyone except maybe Huang Longshi. Imo those 3 are in a league of their own then there's guys like Lee ChangHo, Shusaku, Jowa etc.
+Kim Jay Wuqingyuan are legend
+DragonfistGaming Indeed yes, but in my opinion, Lee is still the best because he won so many games against godlike Chinese, Japanese and Korean go players like it was nothing. Early 1900s or before would not be a good example to compare as then it was not so competitive. I must agree that if we have to pick one country for the greatness would be Japan for sure.
So you know how competitively players in the early 1900s played? Impressive... but then again maybe you're only talking out of your ass.
This clearly shows that Lee Changho is the greatest player ever
정점을 찍었던 기사들 모두 놀랍지만
1. 이창호 - 알파고의 원형에 가까운 반집승 창시자
2. 이세돌 - 압도적 파괴력, 쾌도난마의 야생마
3. 조훈현 - 50대까지 현역 , 혹자는 지저분 하다고 하지만 투쟁본능이 잘 드러나는 승부사!
4. 조치훈 - 변태적이지만 집요하고 끈덕진 승냥이
조훈현 진짜 대단하네요 10살 20살 차이 나는 후배들 상대로 상대로 겁나 오래버팀
Considering that Cho Chikun is Korean (though he played (and still does) in Japanese league) this is pure Korean dominance. The current champion is Jinseo Shin (has been for a few years now) and he dominates as well. It’s a bit of a downer for Korea that (although he is a great player) Ke Jie was the world champion when all this alphago hype was going around. His dominance lasted for four years while Koreans really dominated the field for the past 42 years since Chikun Cho got his championship in 1980.
사실은 조훈현은 갑자기 1988에 강해진게 아니라 80년대 통틀어 최강이었음. ...네웨이핑이 그다음...
This is the best infographics I've seen in my life lol..
When Lee Changho lost his number 1 title he had held it for over half of his life, wow.
조치훈8년 이창호16년 이세돌6년등 거의 30년동안 세계1위가 한국 기사네 대단하다
It's interesting that the much younger Go champions don't seem to appear until after the commercialization of the internet.
Is there anything wrong with that?
vdxhtx bgfc Maybe, but for now it appears to be only beneficial. Before the wide-spread use of the internet, it was predicted that those with access to it could become immensely knowledgeably. This is an example of how this has come to fruition.
일본판에 갑자기 중국기사들 등장하는거랑 혜성같이 치고올라오는 조훈현, 갑자기 끝도 없이 달리는 이창호. 이부분이 소름 돋음
이창호 이인간 13살에 올라오는거 실화입니까????????
김태훈 이인간 아니고 이분 으로 고쳐쓰시는게 어떨까요 이제 40대 초중반 되십니다
@@thk230 말뽄새 봐라 시발 ㅋㅋ감히 갓창호 기사님께
노인들과는 대화가 잘안되는 이유가 있네요 요즘은 표현이 이렇습니다 할아버지 이해하세요
@@thk230 요즘은 표현이 이렇습니다?
니 부모한테도 이인간 저인간 해라 그럼 ㅋㅋㅋ
Would love to see an updated version of this up to year 2020.
park jungwhan, ke jie and shin jinseo have been fighting for the number 1 spot but shin jinseo is dominating lately
Would like to see how much the ai bumped up human strength of play - was it a huge jump or just incremental
이창호..... 16년간 세계1위 오지네...ㄷㄷㄷㅡ
15살;;
나 15에 머하고 살았지
?
ㅓ머ㅜ추너자ㅓㅓ는ㅌㅌ 자랑스러운 대한민국
반집승, 욕심안부리는 알파고 스타일이니까 가능했던거라 생각됩니다 ㅋ 돌부처 포스
Cho Chihun (Japanese) is actually Korean.
+Jong Bhak
Indeed, but because he learned in Japan, most of his activities were in Japan, and he lives in Japan, I believe there should be both Korean and Japanese flag, not just Korean.
Irrelevant. The Go association he is from is what matters.
His Japanese wife and daughter disagree. Why he not move to Korea, not marry a Korean wife, and not play in Korean leagues if he was so "Korean"?
@@illarionbykov7401 if so, is Lionel Messi Spanish?
He still holds Korean nationality and thinks himself as Korean. Why do you arbitrarily define him as Japanese?
@@Usmyid0n He lives and plays in Japan in Japanese leagues and has a Japanese wife and daughter who think they are Japanese and he was trained by Japanese masters to play a Japanese style and represents Japan in international tournaments. Why do you arbitrarily claim he is not Japanese? Do you also arbitrarily think Obama is Kenyan?
So it wasn't just Esports Koreans were good at
lol starcraft
Very well done. I have so much more respect for Lee Chang Ho. Number one player. Top ten place for 22 years starting at age 13. Number one player for 15 years, and top ten for additional five years after losing first ranking world wide.
Lee Changho was god. I think he was strongest go player in history of go
Ke Jie is not even close to being a legend XD
strongest human ever would be Ke Jie. Biggest contribution to Go would be Wu Qingyuan and Lee Changho tied.
Ke Jie is the first one in history who breaked the 3600 rating, well Lee Changho is also great but he failed to do that.
you need to see Changho's Shanghai sweeping victories. And many Chinese players studied him a lot. So did Ke Jie as well.
At that time, Chinese people didn't know their president name but Changho Lee.
There are many legendary players but only Changho Lee is called a living God, not legend but God. And In Korean, that is 신산(神算)
See : ruclips.net/video/tgv8NUUB9iw/видео.html
I'm not a Go player, but based on what I've jist read, the post 3600 isn't also a matter of inflaction?
아니 무슨 15살부터 30살까지 1등하는 사람이 어딨어...ㅋㅋㅋ 바알못인 제가 보기에도 이창호9단은 정말 신과 진배없네요..
유일하게 신神을 쓰는 바둑기사자나요.ㅎ
신산 神山 이창호
15년동안 세계 1위 였으니
백억 어쩌고한게 이해가.ㅎ
It also shows how harder it gets staying at the top after 30 years of age. Decades ago you even saw some 50 or almost 60 year olds in top 10. Competition got more international and more young people played the game at professional level it seemed.
이창호 9단을 왜 바둑의 신이라고 불렀는지 알겠네....
다른 기사들 아래에서 엎치락뒤치락 할때 혼자 저 위에서 날라다니고계심ㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ
@@쇼말차 지금은 안보지만 한때의 라리가를 보는 듯한 ㅋㅋㅋ 천상계 레알마드리드,FC바르셀로나 나머진 인간계 ㅋㅋㅋ
@@gasdebel 레이팅 포인트에요 일종에 랭킹점수라고 보면 될 듯. 레이팅 포인트는 바둑 외에도 다른 랭킹을 통계낼때 쓰입니다.
오죽하면 옛날에 이런말도 있었죠
"이창호가 바둑의 신은 아니다 그러나 바둑의 신이 있다면 이창호처럼 둘것이다"
Why was this recommended to me? I don't even know what Go is...
akhde same but I like this
me too
it's a game originated in china
and popularized by a japanese anime and the recent alphago battle
same xD
It's the power of neural networks. They can be used to make good Go playing software (like we saw in the video), and also to give good video recommendations!
Cho chikun was born in Korea. He is Korean. He belonged to the Japanese Go association that's why his nationality is shown as Japanese.
Any respect for Kobyashi Koichi for staying consistently on the top 10 throughout the 20th century until 2000?
Jefferson Huang japan was the only country in the game during the majority of that time but yes he does receive respect
Two facts. 1. Cho chikun is korean. but his Go group is japan. 2nd. Untill 1988, Korean competition results were not reflected in world elo points. The reason was maybe japanese ignore koreans. But 1988, at world major Go competition, (in korean "응씨배 세계 바둑 선수권 대회", in chinese "應氏杯世界職業圍棋錦標賽") Cho Hunhyun win this competition. Then the Japanese suddenly put Joe Hoon-hyun in the rankings. When he is 35 years. In fact, 1970s and 1980s were Cho Hunhyun's times. Normally, Go player's golden age is 10~20s or 30s. And his rankging was 6th untill his age 50. it is very very surprising record. If Korean Go was not ignored because korean national power at 1970s and 1980s, Cho Hunhyun maintained ranking no.1 for about 20 years or more.
Am I the only one who likes the timing when the Kobayashi comes first again at 1:41 and then Cho Hunhyun appears just after? The background music and the sudden appearance comes in well
changho destroyed from the early 90s
어떻게 한 사람이 16년동안 한 분야에서 탑을
유지 할 수 가 있냐 . 들어본적도 없다
Kasparov hold that long in chess.
Lee Chanho had the highest elo for 6000 days thats like 18 years
The music is great for this. And one interesting thing is... basically no players over 40, even 30+ is rare.
1:42 I love how Cho Hunhyun comes in 2nd place out of nowhere with 0-1
You know I'm looking at this because the music is kind of entertaining.
자연인 조치훈의 국적은 한국이 맞으나 조치훈의 소속기원이 일본 기원이기 때문에 일본소속으로 나온 것일 뿐입니다. 실제로 조치훈은 한국에서도 병역법에 저촉되는 행위 때문에 문제가 되었습니다만 일본 명인전에서 우승하며 명인 타이틀을 달고 나서 귀국, 정부에서 병역을 면제시켜주었습니다.
김봉준 일본인인데 한국에서 태어낫다는거임? 아니면 한국인인데 일본에서 태어낫다는거임?
메로옹 한국에서태어났으나 어릴때 일본으로 건너가서 일본에서 크고자랐던걸로기억합니다
한국인이고 어렸을때 바둑 유학 간거죠. 조훈현은 군대 때문에 한국으로 돌아온거고.... 조치훈은 아직도 국적은 한국입니다.
English?
BFA Official Jo chihun was belong to japanese Go assosiation while his nationality is Korea(south). That's why he is tagged with japanese flag.
진짜 이창호 몇년을 혼자 해먹은거냐ㅋㅋㅋ
대국수만봐도 ㄹㅇ넘사
괜히 중국에서 신이라 부른게 아니네
이창호는 바둑의 신이네. 알파고는 이창호의 기보를 보고 학습능력을 키워서 최강이 되었구나. 결국 이창호는바둑의 갓파더이시네.
I would love to have a current updated version of this! AlphaGoZero published Elo rating was 5,185 in 2017.
Pathetic to put an IA in the ranking.
White people are that bad at Go that Britain or American people have pride to be represented by AlphaGo.
All these nerds explaining "go" side of story of why Japan lost its place.....without a single bit consideration of history? Before the 80's China was recovering many many centuries of poverty, ww2 and civil war right after that. Not to mention cultural revolution. Korea is recovering from Korean War as well as ww2. Who the fuck would have the luxury of playing go for a living in those ages. Japan was the safe haven for go community, that's why it was dominating, by simply having no international competitor what so ever, Not because people from other countries got good. Pls.
and also, japanese go is easier.
well they got good bc they had time to play
some people say that because japanese go community was too comfortable and conservative, so they adapt to the new current slower
Ping Lee Japan has ww2 as well
hazel chu Chinese destroy their culture by themselves. It's not from wars but the Great Proletarian Cultural Revolution.
This is amazing to watch! Thank you much for doing it!! :D
I'd love to see an updated version of this where Shin Jinseo shoots to 3780.
Very cool visualization, thanks.
I recommend adding the tidbit informations at the end. Like who held the title for the longest amount of days, who was the youngest player to take it, what was the average age of the top 10, etc.
Mikozee Mikozee Lee changho was both youngest at 15, and longest title holder at 5605 days approx
4:29 Google AlphaGo comes out of nowhere, like he's on steroids.
OMG Lee Chang Ho, He is legend.
You can take the top 3-5 players from every era/century starting from the 16th century-to present day 2022 and come to the conclusion that there is no greatest of all time when it comes to Go. But just like every competitive high level professional game, there are the greatest of every era. Each great player from every era has done something incredible to solidify themselves in history as the greatest of their time and their playstyles and moves are studied and applied to today's game only to be evolved and refined to the next generation so that they may create modern day moves that are original based off of their predecessors. The game is timeless.
South Korea's population is about only %40 of Japan's and comprises a mere %3 of China's pop. and yet they dominate Go...This reveals an undeniable truth that Koreans are really good at the game of Go. I'm thinking there are amazing players in NK as well.
Absolutely amazing video! Thanks for creating this!
Lee Changho number 1 for 5620 days WTF???
5602*
참 신기해 아무것도 없고 좁아터진 땅에 사람밖에없는 나라가 세계2위나라랑 인구몇십배 차이나는 나라랑 거의모든 분야에서 비비거나 어떨땐 압도를 한다는게... 맨날 이리저리 얻어터졌지만 괜히 5천년동안 살아남은게 아니구나 싶기도하고
교육열 선택과 집중 엄청난 연습량
한국 문화특징임
중국과 일본이 안그런것도 아니지만..ㅋ
안타까운건 노벨상이 한명도 없음...ㅜㅜ
사실 일본도 작ㄷ...
@@kim08ddong 인재가 부족해서 그런게 아니라 한국이 기초과학에 돈을 투지 안 해서 나오는 헌상이죠.
Fallen of Japanese gamers... R.I.P
YES!!!
Japanese people play shogi as well. The number of shogi players in Japan is estimated to be about three times as large as that of go players. So the chances are, the most intelligent Japanese people likely play shogi.
Damn wanted to see it go to present, didn’t realize how old it was.
1:48 그가 왔다
This is the earliest data visitation video I've seen on YT, they've really taken off within the last year.
Lee Chang Ho dominate over 15 years！Real God ！
Oh, my godness! KE Jie is the only one who ever stays above 3600!
+Rui Si I I think Because everyone's score also becomes higher.
In 1974 Jan 1, #1 is 3260 and #10 is 3050
In 1995 Jan 2, #1 is 3513 and #10 is 3292
In 2016 Mar 16, #1 is 3621 and #10 is 3498
+C. Wu H yeah. That's what it is with elo
+Rui Si There will be more people staying over 3600 in the future.. gotta give credit for breaking the 3600 point barrier though
omg please updated version!!
Nostalgia. I am a 90's Kid and at that time, GOH(BahDook, In korean) was huge In Korea inspired by Lee Chang-Ho and his teacher and rival Cho HoonHyun. I learned at local GOH academies to hope one day I will be like them.
Oh, and Cho ChiHoon, was also my hero too. In this video, His name is Cho ChiKun. He is Korean-Japanese, born in Korea. Chikun is a japanese pronouncing of his korean name. His uncle who has connections of Japanese GOH industry sent him to Japan when he was 5 yrs to study latest fashion of GOH. After he changed his nationality. In Old days, Japan ruled GOH. Now, Google.
Ah, the 2000's, when go players kicked out the orignal go players.
And 2015, when go leaderboards got more diverse than hollywood.
And 2016, when Pokemon Go overtook Go.
weee50 and the 2020's when movie trailers became absolute shit, and when memes were rancid just like 10 year olds, and when people fell into ditches trying to catch fictional creatures in their poopy phones which aren't better than the last versions (take the hint, apple fans.)
Diverse? You mean the same 3 countries being the top 10 best Go players for 3 decades.
Moon I ment the regions of the countries... asia and north america. Those sound drastically different to me.
I have no idea why is this in my recommended, but damn that's a pretty cool video
Cho Chi-kun's national flag is displayed incorrectly. Cho Chikun's league is Nihon Ki-in, but his nationality is South Korea.
Right
but his success is in Japan
This is because Cho Chikun is a member of the Japanese origin
His name is cho chi hun. Not kun. But Japanese can't speak hun.
조치훈.
@@100filter Is Messi Spanish? because he's successful in Spain lol
It's so incredible for Alphago to take on all the Go human gods and beat them all like they're nothing. It was a humbling experience for Ke Jie 2 years later. No one can catch up to AlphaGo Zero and the meaning of the game completely changed.
이창호 , 이세돌이 정말 전설이네..
정우진 조치훈 이지만 영어이름 표기상태가...
일본에선 치쿤이라고 불려서 맞는 표기
일본 기원 소속이니 일본식 표기가 맞죠...
바둑기사는 국적이 아니라 기원의 귀속되니까.
최치훈(ちょちくん) 약 3000일
이창호 약 5600일
이세돌 약 1900일
Dude, the music in your video is terrific!!..Takes me to different world..
and suddenly lee changho arrived he was 14 ... and stay number 1 til he was 30 yo... thats something
Amazingly interesting video, has a huge replay value.
Lee Chang Ho 5600 days +. Longest time . Alphago beat Kie Jie 3-0 now the computer is the best right now
I can’t believe this was the first bar chart race channel on RUclips!
The reason why Japan GO has moved away from the world rankings since the 2000s is because Japanese pro GO players play only in Japan. They do not like to lose to Chinese and Korean players, and that's because the Japanese corporate sponsors in the contest will not support the Japanese GO tournament. In fact, even though the Japanese player is in Japan to contest the world tournament, the GO Association of Japan is still preventing it from entering.
This is freaking awesome! Thanks for a fantastic visual that highlights the significance of AlphaGo.
Would it be too difficult to change AlphaGo age to 2 years? t.co/DZQo4DvoYz
+David Collins Hmm, considering the slide says Lee Sedol has played 10k games in >~20? years and AlphaGo has played 100k games, by extrapolation that would make AlphaGo >~200 human years old if games are played at the same rate as a human could play them. And considering it took AlphaGo 100k Go games of experience to beat Lee Sedol, the human is *still* a vastly more efficient learning machine than AlphaGo. No doubt, that learning disparity will shrink with time.
1:48 전설 이창호 (13세) 등장.
3:33 뭔가 깨달은 이세돌 (23세) 치고 나감.
깨달은게 아님. 이창호가 노쇠화로 연산능력이 약해져서 세월로 인해 내려온걸 줏어 먹은거임..
@@bibic5534 줏어먹었다고 할 것은 아니지요. 꾸준히 그 뒤를 이은 2인자의 자연스런 승계라고 봐야 합니다.
This outro song is much better than anything in life right now
No one can stay on the top forever.
Yes, no *human* can stay on top forever, but AI doesn't age, just keeps improving without any limit in sight as far as DeepMind has seen.
Fun fact: cho chi hun is also a korean.. back then, korea was poor , so he had to compete in japan