Ford FE Engine Family 332, 352, 361, 390, 406, 410, 427, 427 CAMMER, 428, CJ428, SCJ428
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- Опубликовано: 13 дек 2023
- Late episode tonight depending where you are in the world. Highly requested ford FE engine family
A few corrections
322 cid
Bore 4 in
Stroke 3.3 in
427 cid
Bore 4.232 in
Stroke 3.785 in they are flipped on slide
332,352,361,390,406,410,427,428
Enjoy =)
This Episode does not include the FT engines
Revision with corrections here
Ford FE Engine family 332, 352, 361, 390, 406, 410, 427, CAMMER, 428, CJ428, SCJ428
• Ford FE Engine family ...
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Sources
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www.vehiclehistory.com/articl....
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1960 
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Yeah buddy congratulations you got it =)
@@What.its.like. great song and was a fantastic band 👏👏👏
@@johnboydTxI heard that all the original members passed away, unfortunately, including singer Danny Joe Brown.
Awesome job !
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Ford engines are so overlooked...it kills me to see an old Ford with a Chevy engine...a crime!
So true.
I totally agree =)
Yes it is!
Yes I agree you get what you pay for it's a crime to see a Chevy motor in a Ford.... Pay a little more money and put a Ford engine in a Ford...,.😊
The FE was very flexible platform They sold thousands of them in industrial applications that are still used on irrigation pumps, power generation and oil wells
The cross-bolting was introduced on the late-run 406s, not the SOHC.
Thank you so much for that correction so much conflicting information
Also all 427s@@What.its.like.
Correct first side bolt was 406 and all 427s are cross bolt.
One of the most overlooked engine designs was the FE intake. Many people talk about the weight of the intake, but ignore just how HUGE the intake is and how small the heads are. The intake is about as long as you can make it and this has a big advantage when you swap it out. The advantage is that you make the most change you can get from changing the intake because it changes so much of the intake runner. Without changing the heads, you've changed a larger area of the runner. So this means you reduce the most weight and change the behavior of the engine more than a BB Chevy or BB 460 engine.
You can also add cross bolted caps to any FE engine if you want. Add a set of headers, good intake, cam and you have yourself a real torque monster of an engine. Very easy to get well over 500 tq on these things.
technically speaking the FE engines were not considered big blocks. They weren't considered small blocks either
@@Brutalford What I was told years ago was that the whole idea of "small" and "big" blocks were a Chevy concept. Just like "numbers matching". Ford back in the day, didn't put the VIN numbers on engine blocks, Chevy did, yet some people thing "numbers matching" applies to vintage Fords. Show me the VIN numbers on a vintage Ford FE block...
Ford had several blocks of various sizes that were known as "families". These include 385, FE, Windsor, etc.... Ford didn't do "big block", but some applied bore spacing to "big and small", but either way, they are meaningless terms for Ford. The family is the only thing that matters, and that's just for ID of the engine.
@@Brutalford wrong FE's are big blocks. You're thinking of the Cleveland family
Yes good point & the intake ports have good velocity.
I bought a old FT 4 v intake to put on a 390 build I was doing - it was a 391 FT intake - oops I shouldn't have bought it because I couldn't use it because the exhaust cross over ports didn't match the FE heads.
Great video, but two minor corrections: first, FE _does_ stand for Ford/Edsel, just like M-E-L. Second, the bore and stroke numbers were reversed for both 427 specs. Amazing that you could buy a new Cammer 427 for $4k, but that is more expensive than a complete Mustang! Or full-size LTD, for that matter.
Thank you so much for that correction =)
Can you provide a link to Ford documentation that says it's Ford Edsel? I have never seen any proof, just lots of opinions.
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_FE_engine
www.macsmotorcitygarage.com/work-horse-race-horse-the-1958-76-ford-fe-big-block-v8/
amazingclassiccars.com/ford-fe-v8-engine/
@@What.its.like. Thanks for the info. It provided some interesting reading!
One of the best engines ever built!
The 427 cammers with the all gear valve train were based loosely on the Ford GAA v-8 used in Sherman tanks. 1100 cubic inches, double over head cam, put out over 500 hp at 2500 rpms.
My first car was a 1966 Thunderbird (bought in 2017, I'm not that old lol) with a 390 FE V8! It was pretty worn out when I got it, but it still ran reliably even if only on 7 cylinders while getting 5 mpg and taking 10 minutes to start and warm up every morning, and stalling frequently in the first couple minutes of driving... It still always got me to my destination. Then I did a full engine rebuild in 2019-2020 and it improved significantly, even more so when I realized I was using the wrong fuel and 0% ethanol made it much happier. Now that I've been driving it for several years I'm honestly shocked how reliable it's been, I thought owning a classic car would require much more frequent maintenance, but I've hardly had to do anything. It only left me stranded once, due to a cheap chinese alternator that crapped out, but that was a cheap and quick fix thankfully. The odometer broke at about 96,000 miles before I bought it, and may very well have had over 100k at that point.
Only modifications to it are a different fuel pump (for running ethanol gas when necessary), roller lifters, an aluminum intake manifold and four-barrel carburetor, and hardened valve seats. With modern higher-quality oil and whatnot, I expect it could easily last another 100k miles with very little maintenance. I totally get why old guys say "they don't build 'em like they used to," given how this whole car seems to be built like a tank, yet in the 80s all the American car companies started building cheap outdated junk and couldn't compete with the Japanese automakers.
Sadly my T-bird was rear-ended by a distracted driver a few months ago and the insurance company declared it a total loss, yet after the accident it still tracked straight and everything still worked, even all the lights. Just some bodywork was damaged, and only in areas where rust had weakened the structure. It still works perfectly to this day, even if I have to leave it sitting for a long time to save up for repairs to get it back on the road with a rebuilt salvage title.
My family has owned exclusively Japanese cars my whole life and loves them for their reliability, and some of my family members are convinced my T-bird is unreliable because it's old so I can't/shouldn't expect it to be useful as a regular car, but I'm convinced it's in the same league as any modern Toyota reliability-wise. Ford was building some truly excellent engines in the 60s.
Awesome thank you so much for sharing all that information and insight greatly appreciate it
Best of Luck with your car, If or when you get it going again , be sure to add a MSD or other multi strike ignition, a World of difference in starting and smoothness.
I have a 1965 Galaxie 500 2door hardtop that has the original 352 with a Cruise O Matic. I have owned this car for years and drive it regularly to church, Lowes, the grocery store, etc. I bought the car in Feb of 2014 and have had many compliments about it as well as quite a few purchase offers.
My dad has an old 390 that he "rebuilt" in the 90s with his father. He mauled the ever loving fuck out of that poor motor. Never let him down and he was always pullinf people out of mud hole n shit. Im rebuilding it rn. It still ran before i took it out, even with a completly fucked cylinder 🤣
@@garyjubar5733The only auto trans I ever bump started. *30mph.
I drove a 1965 Galaxie 500 with a 352 that my dad bought in February 1966 as a leftover new car and I started driving it in the fall of 1973 when it had only 9000 miles on it. It lasted until 1990 when the dreded northeastern Ohio rustworm finally did it in. I miss it, it was a caspian blue 4-door sedan 😢
I have a 360 FE in my 1976 F150 4x4. Original with 108,000 miles. It’s my daily driver. I really enjoy driving it.
Sweet totally going to cover that engine when we do the FT engine family =)
I’ve a ‘72 Exploder F150 With a 360
I think you mean F-100.@@ProctorsGamble
My Dad bought a360 '69 F-250 he said he expected it to last forever , because it didn't hav enough power to hurt itself !
@@mr.lincoln5154 No, it is a factory F150. Ford added the 150 to the lineup in 1975.
Back in the day, ordered a 69 Mach1,428SCJ , 430 gears.With a little mentoring from Tasca Ford ran a consistent 13.7s at Conn Dragway and NE Dragway Pure Stock Class which consisted of street tires and closed exhaust.Had a very good launch and was a fast street car, made a lot of Chevy Guys unhappy ,i used to tell them (Not Bad For 335 HP } .Went to the next level, sodium valves ,multi angle valve job ,matched intake/head ports and General Kinetics cheater cam to run a stock class.Ran 12.3s, 112 mph, the class I ran had to run 7" slicks{ wrinkle walls } with 7psi air pressure, was exciting going the traps at speed.
I bought a 427 missing a cylinder because of sodium filled exhaust valve I installed a sleeve a lot of cast iron welding had a side oiler 427
My 66 nova 327 350 hp used to eat em 428s and 396s at myrtle beach dragstrip
I had a stock 327 360hp it ran low tens I installed wheelie bars and M&h slicks drove it to the drags back in the mid sixties Tasca was afraid to run me@@robertcoleman7556
A lot of people were running aluminum valve spring retainers to lighten up the valve train back in the day, Tasca Ford told me don't do it, the sodium filled valves were enough, plus the 428 wasn't a high revving engine, used to come thru the traps at 6200@@cooperparts
Was that on the street? They were a light cars, what were your times, or was it just a street racer? @@robertcoleman7556
332 had a 4 inch bore and 3.30" stroke. 3.6 and 3.6 inches respectively, thats not right. Same with the 427 bore and stroke the wrong way around. I can cope with everything else. I continue to love your stuff. 🥝✔️
Thank you so much for that correction =)
U missed the bore size of the 58/59 361.
@@jesseduke694 🥊✔️
Had a 73 f150 with a 360! Good engine!
Slow engine …
There is no question it was Ford Edsel , The same year they made the MEL that was for Mercury, Edsel, Lincoln. Ford' Biggest reason for a new development in engine was to relocate the two hot valves that caused head Cracking in the Y block engine.
Yblock head cracking? Two hot valves? I've been running them since 1968, still running 3 high performance yblocks, never saw or heard of a heat cracked head or hot valve problem.
Wrong about block change, the rocker oil issue was easily solved with a better cam bearing. The only reason for the bigger block was bigger volume.
FE and MEL are also yblocks.
@@danontherun5685 You may not have had that problem. Ford seen it and ad addressed it. Ford never made another engine with to exhaust valves side by side again.
Ford tried fixing the Cracking Problem in 1957, when they introduced the Posted head, that was not enough to Cure the problem. All heads after 1956 were posted but they still experianced cracking Between the exhaust valves.
I and my brother have had more 292s than we can possibly remember. I'm a member of Ford car clubs and lots of those guys still running those engines in all configurations including super chargers. They were also used for high mileage super duty trucks. Near all yblock vehicles keep those engines for good reason. That Ford didn't use that configuration again doesn't mean it was a bad design, the cam was too close to the crank for more volume period. A new gen super charger on a basically stock V8 run like a rented mule for 15 years proves the engineering. No head cracking and no hot valves.
Posted heads were for higher compression. @@mylanmiller9656
Please feature the old Ford Super Duty engines from WAY BACK. The 401, 477, and 534 cubic inch monsters that were found in big trucks.
Most definitely will one day =)
Those were based on the MEL engine design
FE=Ford Edsel. Good review. The 361 was a truck engine also used in the Edsel. The FE427 was a rare bird, but tuning was a lot more flexible than the cheaper to produce 428. The 390 is a superb all around motor, used heavily in pickups, along with its shorter stroke 360 brother. I will take a 61 390 Bird any day !
Great video, thanks! One correction, the 361 was an FT and the FE was a 360.
The Edsel engine was called a 361. It had heads (EDC) that were like the later 427 medium riser heads including machined chambers.
Another great engine episode, Jay! Keep 'em coming, please.
Happy you dig this episode +)
The engine shown for the 332 is not an FE. That appears to be a Ford truck or Lincoln Y-block engine.
There was a 360 FE engine offered in Ford trucks.
The 406 was only available in 1962 and 1963. It didn't return for 1964.
Here's a high five for noting the fact that the 410 FE is a completely different animal from the 410 MEL.
The 428 was also offered in the full size Ford (Custom, Galaxie, LTD, wagons) and Mercury.
By and large your show brought back a lot of great memories. Thanks a mil!
Awesome thank you so much for those corrections =)
I disagree about the 332 being a Lincoln or truck engine. The exhaust manifolds and spark plug angles, plus some other details, make it look just like an FE engine to me. Also (and this is not nit-picking) I have seen various Ford trucks with both 360 and 361 decals on the air cleaner. Not sure what, if any, differences there were. I rented an ancient Ford box truck from U-Haul back in 82, and it had a 361. Empty, it got 4 mpg. Loaded, it got 4 mpg. What a dog it was.
@@61rampy65 Are we on the same page? I'm referring to the engine shown sitting on a pallet at 2:25 through 3:08. Take note of the valve covers and how they're held in place by nuts on two studs coming up through the center of the cover. That's one of the easiest ways to identify a Y-block. The FE had five bolts through the outer flanges of the covers.
Not only that, note the location of the oil filter at the rear of the block. The FE had the filter at the front.
The Y-block's intake manifold didn't seal off the lifter chamber whereas the FE's did.
The Y-block had the spark plugs under the exhaust manifolds. The FE's were above them.
@@Rick-S-6063Apparently, we were *not* on the same page!. I was looking at the pics on pages 0:18 thru 0:35. You are absolutely correct in that the engine shown is from the Y-Block family. Sorry about the confusion.
I never saw 332 in the wild apparently that guy doesn’t know what he has because this is where I got that picture from
www.vanderhaags.com/detailview.php?part=43922
62 Tbird
70 Stang
The FE series of engines provided the beating heart of the famous Ford versus Chevy rivalry. I was on the FoMoCo side.
Awesome choices I would love to compare a 427 Ford to a 427 Chevy one day
@@What.its.like.That would be an interesting Compare but, a 427 ford will be hard to find.
i have always been a ford Guy but something that dissapointed me about Ford, was the fact that Ford made wild race engines, but no local yokel could buy them, unless you had Racing Connections! Chevy or Mopar never made real exotic engines but anybody that wonted to lay down the cash could Get one! i have a buddy that owns a 1969 ZL1 Camaro and another friend that owns a hemi Cuda! I knew a guy that Owned a 1966 Fairlane 427, He got the car because he Raced for a large Ford dealer, with lots of clout.
The Chevy 427 was the better choice, mostly because the heads head better air flow than the stone aged FE heads. BB Chevys had a better oiling system too
@@mylanmiller9656 so true and you could walk into the local dealer's parts counter of any Mopar or Chevy dealership and buy those performance parts over the counter.
@@johneckert1365 Maybe in 2023, when the big block Chevy has 40 years of Aftermarket support, the Chevy is better. In 1964 Ford 427 high riser would Kick the snot out of a 427 Chevy every day of the Week. How many le Man unlimited class win's has the big block Chevy got. Oh Ya that is right, None The ford won two in arow and then it was ban. If not for the Rule change Ford would have won at least two more, Because they won with the 302 after the 427 was ban. Remember Ford engine is obsolete because Ford made a better engine.
I was born in 1951. As I was growing up one of the family cars that my parents owned was a 1964 Ford Country Sedan station wagon. The car was equipped with the Ford FE 352 cubic inch engine with a 4 barrel carburetor and the 3 speed Cruise-O-Matic transmission. One characteristic of these particular Ford FE engines was that the engine coolant tank was separate from the radiator. Also the engine coolant fill cap was very close to the engine oil fill cap. One time my father was flushing out the radiator and doing an oil change at the same time. When he started to refill the engine with oil, he accidentally put the spout of the oil can into the radiator coolant tank. I saw this and said, Dad you are putting engine oil into the radiator. My dad pulled out the oil can and started to flush and drain the radiator a second time. This was an easy mistake to make because the oil filler and the coolant filler were next to each other. At the 3 minute 18 second mark on this video, you can see that the oil filler cap is just behind and next to the radiator fill cap on the 352 cubic inch engine.
Thank you so much for sharing that story. I always wondered why Ford did that and put a separate tank for the radiator up on top of the engine I think they’re the only ones that did it.
That tank your talking about is the expansion tank just like modern cars it also made it the highest point of the cooling system. And for whatever reason not all the early FE's had it and in 67/68 they changed over to a smaller thermostat housing
@@What.its.like.Ford also used the expansion tank on Lincoln's of the same time period plus Shelby used them on the Cobras
.......................cool.....I was born june 18,,,1951........own a 347,,,,, 1988 stang,,,,,,drag car convertible.......
Hi Jay!: What spectacular engines! Family had at least three with 390's in them, Grandma had a Galaxie with a 427! GREAT engines! The Cammer was just awesome!! Thanks for another GREAT Engine episode!! WYR#1 1960 Galaxie is a good looker! BUT Going with the BIrd on this one! #2 Have a soft spot for the Torino, as my first car was a 1969 version, so going with that!
=) glad you dig this episode was a few mistakes great choices
I picked up a 1967 Thunderbird couple years ago been fixing her up. She's the four-door which has the suicide doors in the rear. Good looking car people love the comment on her. Just sharing cuz she has the FE 390 V8 engine in her. She runs real well had some problems when I first got her but after giving her some major maintenance and replacing a few things she's been running super good the last year.
Ours was a '69 with the 375hp 429 cream with black alligator pattern vinyl top. I had some pretty quick cars (350 mid-engine V8 Corvair Monza, '67 GTO with a '69 Ram Air III motor built by a top Pontiac racer/Builder) That Tbird would surprise more than a few Ricky Racers. Also had a very overlooked awesome HVAC system.
A 8itch to get at those rear most plugs though!
Can’t wait for the FT engines my understanding was that 360 390 are car light truck and 361 391 are truck engines
That was my understanding as well super confusing engine lineage to also add confusion to all of it they called the truck engine 360 or 361 but they made an FE 361 that was available in the edsel line of cars
There were two mistakes in this episode 427 bore and stroke sizes are flipped 333 bore is 4 inches 3.3 inch stroke.. I wish RUclips made it easier to fix things afterwards there’s a couple things that I would really like to fix like I mentioned that this episode were not covering the FT engines I should’ve listed which engine sizes those were
That is correct and some parts will interchange a lot of the FT engines have forged crankshafts that can be machined down to fit the FE timing chain cover and balancer
Great job on these important engines. I had a few cars with the 390 in them. Wonderful engines, other they were hard to start in cold weather.
Thank you so much glad you dig this episode
Funny you say that. Manual Choke was the best one to get.
And they took 10 minutes to warm up.
Some can be my 410 in my 69 Ranger starts easier than my 79 LTD Landau's 351Windsor
Had a 66 fairlane gt. 060. Over 390 with 427 low riser heads and intake. 735 holley off a 428 cj, headers. This car would fly. Stock bottom end, shifted at 5500. Thanks for the video.
Thank you for sharing your cars with us =)
Don't believe you. 427 valves are too big for the bore on a 390.
Actually 427 heads/valves do fit on a 390. Some applications require notching of the top of the 390's bore.@@jesse75
I love the FE motors we got 4 or 5 of them in our barn we collected over the years mostly 390s from the 60s but also couple 428s
Fantastic episode, Jay. Love those Performance part ads. If only you could go back in time...
I know right
The picture of the 385 series engine cylinder head, is actually the "Lima" 4 cylinder overhead cam engine.
Love the info on the 406. Most forget about the 406-6 barrel and go straight to the 427 as the daddy; well, the 406 was the g-daddy.
Definitely underrated overlooked engine
427 Ford low, medium , high riser, tunnel port & SOHC are fantastic!
"FE" could mean anything or nothing. It's the atomic symbol for iron.
Galaxies convertible, extremely rare early '60s model😊.
Yeah especially with that special 352 v8 making 360 hp
@@What.its.like. Whoa, Mama!
AS EVER J, THIS IS A FANTASTIC INFORMATIVE VIDEO ON FORD'S FE ENGINES- WOW.THANKS FOR POSTING/SHARING.
Thank you so much for watching. I’m glad you dig this episode.
The FE’s are good, dependable engines. I had a 68 Galaxy fastback, and currently own a 66 Thunderbird with the 428. I love the 60-70’s cars, but must admit the current ones are much safer, dependable, and and last longer. I just don’t see them being collectible in the future.
I also don’t see anyone working through all the electrical issues todays cars will have in 50 years.
Especially since FoMoCo decided to stop building sedans
It's like they last longer but once they're broke they're too complicated and expensive to fix so many electronics that can leave you stranded.
I'd rather be in the crusher than the crushed and believe the best safety device is 3 point restraints which I now have in all my old cars (and front disk brakes).
Square bird into same weight parked SUV at 65 mph no seat belt minor black eye and temporary sore neck from dash pad hit.
SUV cabin crushed and all doors sprung. Bird front bumper and sheet metal mashed and kinked frame but zero damage from firewall back. Pulled front bumper from tire and drove it home. Square birds thick inner fenders are seam welded to frame exceptionally strong, entire car is very strong. I believe injury comparisons would be very different given 3 point restraints (except extremely bad design hour glass framed chevs).
Also my engine builder said most old overhead valve engines will also get high miles because the oil is a lot better. I know they're a hell of a lot cheaper to keep running. Problem is fuel use but I don't commute so don't care.
@@brianhdueck3372 ,,,,,,,,,,,,,and in the future,,,,where to find parts.....no one will make money producing antique parts in the age of electric cars......
Good video has stuff people don't usually know, also a couple flaws, but it's hard to get every detail right, the 406 was a special block just like the 427 it had cross bolted mains it was the performance Engine but because of the thin bores Ford was reluctant to go more but when the Galaxy equipped 406 dual quad carbs, lost to a 327 Impala at the pikes peak Hill climb challenge for new they had to do something the engine was punched out to 427 CI(425.98) actual, this was a great born-stroke combination the engine just liked being a 425/(aka427) the legend was born, this combination really does just work even today they're wicked fast the Fe was not known as a big block either it was known as a medium block the 289s small block Ford FE medium block Ford MEL big block, that was Ford's official designation. Great video, I like the fact that you can have one engine with 440 horsepower and 500 foot pounds of torque and then you have another engine that's $344 horsepower with 510 ft pounds of torque shows the versatility and and different builds Ford was working with this engine made its living from torque it was also an industrial engine they had a lot of 427 Marine engines that were doing the work of what today's diesels would, and they did it well and reliably. The Fe was a great Engine line but it was dirty burning engine,emissions wise, horrible gas mileage by today's standards, for its time it was great, few engines sound as good as this engine when it's built in camed out they have a great sound when they're built up what you think of when you think high performance 60s as a matter of fact most movies if not all of them when you hear a car's chasing or racing they will dub in the 427 GT40 at lemans for the sound clip they sound awesome!
Thank you so much for sharing all this information =) greatly appreciate that
The early 406's had two bolt mains but they had problems staying together so they switched to four bolt mains which helped to an extent but by then the 406 gave way to 427
The 361 and the 391 was used in the flip up cab HD truck that has a steel crankshaft with a larger neck .
Oh no. We hope the “flip up cab” was not the dangerous “cab over engine.” Putting the driver over top the engine left nothing between the driver’s head and a telegraph pole. Danger!
A mate of mine has a 1960 T bird with a 352, lovely car
I’d like to have the ‘60 Sunliner thanks very much!
Awesome choices =)
I so envy the people who could just walk into a dealership and drive off the lot with cars/engines like these brand new !!
Me too born way to late
In my humble opinion, nothing souunds as good as a Ford 427 cammer, somebody help me now!!
Would love to see one in action one day
1966 mercury comet with 390. Loved the one I had.
Awesome automatic or manual 390 would make that car move nicely
Loads of fun changing the plugs in that combo …
I bought my 390 '66 Cyclone in 1968 (because I couldn't afford a used GTO). It felt like a truck engine and never seemed happy at high revs so I always shifted at 4500. A good first car for a high school kid burning tires, but I never regretted selling it.
Fascinating. I miss my 1967 428 Thunderbird Fordor that went away in divorce. Cool machines for the Jet Age.👍
I’m sorry you lost yours
NASCAR influence, namely Holman-Moody, played a big part in the split design of the intake manifold and cylinder heads. This feature allowed for a relatively quick replacement of a cylinder head if a valve spring broke (a common occurrence in those days) during a race by allowing the intake manifold to remain in place during the swap. Great video. Carry on.
Thank you so much for sharing that information greatly appreciate it =)
I have done that on a 352 a 289 and a 350 Chevy. The split design made no difference.
these engines were also used on truck, industrial and stationnary applications. they were very robust engines, some of these were clasified medium duty and heavy duty but their ratings are revised downward for example, a 332 car automobile is basically the same as the 330 truck version, in medium duty, the valves are upgraded and the rating was about 160 HP, on the heavy duty version, the pistons used 3 compression rings.
Thank you so much for sharing that information we are definitely going to come back and cover the FT engines one day..
Another nice engine episode J. There are a lot of interesting comments here too. I would rather have the 1960 Galaxy and the 1968 Torino. I like the style of both those cars.
Sweet choices glad you did this video
You see that... You schooled me on a couple of points on these motors! My first (legal to drive ) car was a 65 Merc Park Lane with the "Marauder" 390/348 horse engine. You have one pictured you called a 66 but it's a 65 (mine was white). I blew it up driving at an "excessive speed" and found the oil pump rod twisted and broke thus sealing the death of that motor. Found a rear-ended Torino in a junkyard and bought the 428 out of that and went in the Merc. I'm glad my next door neighbor was a Ford guy or I would have been walking. May have been why I was a lifetime "Chevy/GM" guy! Great job on this one!
Thank you so much glad you dig this episode =)
1960 Ford Starliner hard top with the 352 Cu. In Engine. I had one in 1965 and I loved that car. It was Black with a red interior and dual exhaust with two glass-packed mufflers!
You have the bore and stroke backwards on the 427 . Thanks for the video !
Thank you for that correction =)
As a owner of several T Birds. This my engine
My buddy's dad had a 1966 T bird Convertible with a 428. My buddy had just got his license and we used to cruse in that car, It was a real chick magnet.
And it is still a chick magnet today. Except I am older and so are the chicks. My 65 T Bird is still a great comfortable ride
Our 1966 3 ton Mercury grain truck had the 332, used 30 years on our farm and only two head rebuilds that I know of. This was the truck I learned to drive in age 10, there were no brakes (JPM quote) as Dad never fixed much. What? You never sent ur kid out age 14 to town with load of grain with no brakes? Exciting times. Still at the farm.
Ur 361 in Edsel is the E400 (400 ft/lb torque) engine and is the first FE engine cast, the 332 and others came after. The E475 engine (that is 475 ft/lb torque), it was the 410 engine. Father of 427.
Dad actually gave real money for a 1958 Edsel, with E400, a 361 with steel crank and at least one 4 barrel carb and either a solid lifter or hydraulic lifter. Dad had gotten a solid lifter engine. Dad said that was the fastest car ever, 135mph all day long. He drove from Thunder Bay to Saskatoon under 12 hours and that was on gravel and on the square, no highways, and the tires ...
Mom's daily driver for many years was a 1964 Tbird convertible, 390, 325hp. Mom did not drive slow, I could see the red line of the speedo way over 85mph every Sunday going to church, but that was me making us late so she would drive fast, tee hee ... my secret. This car is unrestored at one of my Brothers place.
1975 F-150 Supercab with 390 4 barrel carb and dual exhaust was our family vehicle. We rebuilt that engine twice, no wear on cylinders. I think still at the farm.
Are the big Mercury trucks just as rare as half tons? Don't see many Mercury trucks here in the States let alone a 3 ton grain thruck
I know where a shalow sunk boat with a Sideoiler is in FlatHead Lake,MT. Im adding a diving trip to my bucket list.
This is a very good video on the FE engine, thanks Jay!
Glad you dig this one =)
Would You Rather # 1: All are excellent choices, but I want the Mercury
I have a 427 FE stroker in my '68 Ford F-100. C6 and it's a load of fun.
Sweet
@@What.its.like. It is! Son has a '66 Ford F-100 with a 428. Between the two of us, we're using all the gas CALI can import :)
I had a 391, someone baught out of a wrecked cruiser....put it in a "63" Country Squire....nice ride
Sweet =)
For WYR, this one is easy: the '62 Thunderbird, and the '69 Mustang.
Budget Buildz not too long ago featured a '61 Ford Galaxie with a 390 engine. He had a lot of fun racing it.
All the engines from the 352 up were casted on the side of the block as 352. I worked at a Ford dealership and learned that. Many 390's that I have seen have the 352 casted on the side of the block. The 427 cammer also had the spark plugs in two different places. I believe that the early model the plugs where on the lower part of the heads. Later model heads the plugs where located on the top, which made it easier to change them.
Not all of the blocks had 352. Some 427's didn't and the 501 block didn't either.
Nope, late 360 & 390 have a mirror image 105 instead of 352.
@@tombryant1104 true. That ribbed block. I just rebuilt one and have it sitting in the garage.
I've heard it called a service block too.
It isn't easy to fully understand the FE family line of engines. Maybe father/son had some arguments and discussions upon its conception ?
Which has near mythical existence.
I'm proud and privileged to own a 427. And it's topped off with that tunnel wedge intake.
An engine that sends chills every time you start it up.
Idk any of of this, alla i know is my 390 is a 428 block. And it wont fuckin die
@@whathappensinmaine5463that math don't compute
Can’t wait for the one on ft engines !
Way back when we were doing any type of performance upgrades on FEs we always joked FE stood for "F*cking Expensive"
Haha nice
Sorry Ur mixed up on 427 bore & stroke correct numbers are 4.23 bore & 3.78 stroke
Thank you so much for that correction it must’ve been flipped in the source sometimes it’s hard to read some of the sources
I noticed that too
My buddy had a mid sixties Ford with the 352 . That thing would move!!!
I’ve heard and read great things about that engine
Good engines for strokers
The only problem was that most of the 352's guzzled more gas than the 390's.
@@ksman9087 gas was pretty cheap back then...late 70s. Also can and hose!
But wages were less. I was making .50 per hour in the '60's and gas was .24 per gallon. @@kennethanway7979
It's a good thing you strarted with the disclaimers on power ratings and variations, as Ford seriously under-rated some of the FE engines so as not to cause racing sanctioning bodies to ban them (which did happen anyway), and there's likely 100+ variations with these, as Ford made lots of small changes throughout production. An interesting note is that for 66, Ford's RPO list had a "7L" option, which in early cars got you a 427 from the last casting run, and then later on the first 428's. You couldn't specify which one you'd get which AFAIK is the only single time in history that anomaly this happened.
I was lucky enough to once have a 427 side-oiler with medium-rise heads which has been claimed (not by Ford) to run from ~380HP to 500HP+ according to who you listen to. All I can say is that it was scary-fast with a Holley 750 in a 64 pickup (not OE) where a previous owner had decked the bed with 1/4" steel diamond-tread plate giving enough added weight for decent traction. Had to retard the timing some to run on pump premium which by then wasn't as high-octane as when the engine was introduced. Let it go when the transmission finally melted down; I didn't know how scarce it was and I'm still kicking myself for that 40 years later.
WYR I like that particular year Galaxie. I like the T-Bird's engine, but the Torino hits the bullseye for styling so it gets my vote.
Great choices
I always do for the engine episodes because a lot of the figures are rounded lots of information contradicts other information and it doesn’t even really matter if I do put a disclaimer because people will contest information... but I try lol
But they say if you want to go fast you got to have a chevy.
@@RobertDickens2002 I don't know who "they" is, but Ford's 427, 428, and 429SOHC along with Chrysler's 426 Hemi and 440 consistently beat anything GM had to offer. Not to belittle Chevy's small block which is one of the all-time great engines, but the only thing that kept Chevy in the game was that adding performance to their factory designs was easier and cheaper and still is. Ford stopped fielding factory race teams in the mid-60's while the others didn't but they were still winning long after that. And Chrysler's Hemi design still dominates the top classes of drag racing (though those engines have no Chrysler parts left in them). The one place that Chevy dominated was the old Trans-Am racing series where their 302 in Camaros was so unbeatable that interest in the series petered out and it ended. So whoever this "they" is that you're listening to is just flat-out wrong.
@P_RO_ they is everyone.
@P_RO_ I never said I was listening I said it's been said.
I had a 390 in my 69 f100 that i bought when i was 18. First engine i ever rebuilt myself with a cam, 4 barrel holly and some long headers. It was a screamer. Intake manifold weighted a ton i remember.
Nice That truck sounds like it would’ve been amazing just curious what did you trade it for
I started working in a repair garage in 75. The owner had a green F250 that had a 460 Lincoln motor in it. When you floored it from a dead stop, it would literally jump like a rabbit. Not sure if they put the 460s in any interceptors or not, great channel .thanks
Wow great story glad you dig this channel =)
I'd take the 62 t bird all day long my dad had about 5 of those back in the 70 s and they were great cars
The Merc any day of the year 😁
built an FE engine started with 410 block and installed 427 high rise heads and cast iron exhaust manifolds. Ran largest cam possible with hydraulic lifters. My old motor had Fords LeMans rods and I used them for this engine. bored 30 over. Intake was a bear to figure as the tall ports of the head didn't match any manifold available aftermarket. I chamfered every oil passage to better oil movement. It was a seriously aggressive engine especially in my 1957 F100 short bed.
Ford made Pretty Engines. I'm a Chevy guy! The Best looking engine in the world to me is the 427 Cammer!!!!
I would love to see one running in person super sweet engine =)
My hat goes off to you for even attempting a comprehensive video on a Ford engine family. LOL That's one reason why I prefer GMs and Mopars... they kept things simple.
Anyway... I would rather... have anything but those. I guess if I had to choose, I'd take the '69 Mustang, but it'd have to be a Boss 429 and damn sure not a "mach 1". I'll never understand why Ford used a reference to speed to sell a uplevel trim package...
Awesome glad you dig this episode I was fretting about doing this one because information is very contradictory.. i’m not sure what the next engine episode is going to be might try to tackle something Chrysler.. idk yet lol
Great choices =)
I'm happy with my 1968 Cougar XR-7 6.5 Litre awesome video thanks.
You’re 68 cougar sounds pretty awesome glad you dig this video =)
Thank you. I'm a sub, and I love to look at the literature.@@What.its.like.
=) I love the ads too
In 1970 dad bought a 1968 Mercury Cougar with the duel 4 barrel 427 side oiler . It was suppose to be mine in 1982 but was stolen, stripped in 1980.
That’s crazy thank you so much for sharing that story with us even though that it was a bad one did you ever find the engine or who did it
this is an additional comment to my previous one . i think i read somewhere that the 330HD is basically a smaller bore 352
About a hundred years ago ( st least it seems like ) I owned a 60 star liner ford , with a 390 crate motor ( 62 modle w/ solid lifters , dual point distributer , single four barrel carb. , 406 style manifolds , all this from the factory ) .
The only reason I know that is because I was told this by the Man that bought that motor new .
It had a B/W four speed w/ orig rear end ( original auto car ) . It was a fun car to drive ( I owned it for several years ) . I later learned that the motor was what Ford called a " special" 390 . I think it's because of all the high performance stuff in it .
I’d take the ‘62 T bird, and the ‘70 Mustang.
No question about it the 62 t bird and a69 mustang preferably the Mach one
Gotta agree with these choices, although I wouldn't turn down the Torino either!
I'm lucky to own a Thunderbird with 390 engine. Awhile there's a couple of engine's in the shop that need rebuilding. Just saving for the next project.
I would go with the Park-lane and the 70 Mustang. I order a 68 GT with 390 and later came a cross a 70 Boss 429 winch I owned at the same time. NO BS!!
Wow that’s insane which did you like better
@@What.its.like. The 68 390 GT was the better Car to drive daily, My 429 had a heating problem that I could get rid of SO it was a LOVE HATE with it. LOVED THEM BOTH.
@@jameswilson8430 it seems like Ford’s always have overheating issues. I had a 67 Mustang but I put three radiators in that car before I said OK I’m gonna buy the biggest four core aluminum radiator I can find and then when I did that I didn’t have any more heating issues.
I would take the Torino with the 390, it would look so awesome sitting next to my 69 Mach I with a 390 that is exactly like the one pictured. Yes, that FE runs like a race horse. Torque monster.
Ford manufactured the 427 side-oilers long after it was no longer available in Ford passenger cars. They were built for boats. So that someone wouldn't drop one of these in a land vehicle and the way they did that was that there was no hole in the rear of the crankshaft for a pilot bushing or bearing.
We worked with a custom boat manufacturer in the 1980's and this was the engine they used, having them in our shop.
I believe that the 427 is still made and they are all-aluminum. People would put them in those after market Shelby Cobras. The much lighter weight of the all-aluminum 427's made the Cobras handle better than the original ones with the cast-iron side-oilers.
The first-gen 427's had problems with oil starvation so that is why they created the side-oiler 427.
Back in the mid-60's, in the cars marked 7 Liter, Ford would put either 427's or 428's in them and the person who bought the car was informed.
Even after Ford no longer put 427's in cars, they still made them and sold them as complete crate engines. Say you bought a new '68 or '69 Mustang and it had come with a 390 or 428, you could buy a 427 complete crate engine from Ford and the dealers would swap them.
Now, years ago, I actually saw and worked on two different 1966 Fairlanes which came from the factory with 427's. One was a coupe and the other was a convertible. The coupe was bought new by a California Highway Patrolman. When he was shopping for a new car, emission controls were starting to come on cars. Even as simple as they were using air injection pumps and timing controls, it was getting messy under the hoods. This guy saw that and he didn't like it. He asked the salesman if there was a new Ford that didn't have all those emission controls and was told the 427 didn't. That is why he bought that car. Although still quite powerful, when the 428's came out they were smog motors. Both of those Fairlanes were equipped with the C6 Cruise-O-Matic automatic, which was it's first year. In 1967, Ford went with the Select-Shift Cruise-O-Matics across the board, in all of their different automatics.
Awesome information thank you so much for taking the time to share all that.
I posted a response or at least I thought I did.. this video has 2 major mistakes 332 cid
Bore 4 in and stroke of 3.3 picture is wrong... and the bore stroke sizes were flipped on the 427 I made a revision episode but decided to let the original episode fly. I wish RUclips made it possible to just text over video if corrections need to be made I can’t be the only person with this problem
1966 Mercury is a great car 👍
Torino over mustang only because of production numbers..
My uncle had a California Special with a 352 4 spd decent Ford 👍 ignition on FE blocks was a weak point ..
MSD box and a hot coil would fix the problem 🤔👍
Enjoy your adventures
Happy Motoring ✌️🤠
I think that with almost all of the old school V8s the conventional ignitions with the ballast resistor,high voltage coil and weights and springs inside were marginal, the spark plugs needed to be in proper gap and the points needed to be free of corrosion and not out of gap High school kids thinking they would get better power by opening up the gaps above specs on both sparkplugs and points? Made them miss or "cut out" more at high speed full throttle?
GM might have had an advantage in that doing a "tune-up" on most of them was easy,you had a replacement points assembly with the condenser included and you opened a little metal thing in the side of the distributor cap to stick an allen key to adjust the "dwell" which accomplished the same thing as setting the proper point gap. With a "dwell meter" that you could get cheap from Montgomery Ward.
I think you had to pull the distributor (the whole thing,not just the cap) from a Dodge Dart 225 Six to work on changing and adjusting the gap of the points. Is that why so many of those things were so hard to start? (People not touching the ignition soft parts for many years and tens of thousands of miles)
also getting the distributor back in properly (in the right rotational alignment) was a bit tricky so that you could set the spark timing right.
@@davidpowell3347 I run Mallory dual point distributors on my Chevy's 👍
I did a electronic conversion on my 2 Ford V8s
My flat fours are Henry's 😉👍
Enjoy 😊✌️
The 352ci 360HP in 1960, could be ordered in ANY full-sized Model. I ordered a "Sunliner" with "three on a tree" (later converted to "drag fast" in-line floor shift). That engine had a "low" restriction (paper element) air cleaner, Free flowing cast iron (not "tuned", scavenging) headers, dual point distributor, and solid lifters. It only had a 3.56 rear end, and because it was a convertible was not as quick as it could have been. Originally I ordered the car with a 430ci Lincoln engine, but the dealer was not aware that the 430ci engine was not available as of the order date, Nov, '59. When the Sunliner arrived in Mar, '60, I was disappointed that I did not get the 430, but because I waited almost 4mo, I was okay with it. This "behemoth" (RED convertible) barely fit into my one-car garage, but was a REAL "chick magnet" when cruising on a Sat night!
The 361 is a FT, which you said you were not going to talk about. The 360 is a FE.
I loved my 390. What an engine!
The FT's and FE's are also Y-blocks, they just don't call them that like Apple computers are PC's but no one wants to call them that. 😂
I love Ford engines. I just don't like the changes in the bell housings with each change in engine design.
I’ve always liked the Tbirds from the early 60s.
=)
Thunderbird. My Grandfather owned a Ford dealership in Kokomo. He gave me a 1962 T-Bird *model
It was a promotional item, now lost.
The 427 engine of 1965 was nasty,rough running and noisy. I think the idle speed had to be kept rather high.
Police officer relative got rid of it after about a year or less. Replaced with a 1966 car with the 428. It was smooth and quiet enough to rival a 1966 Oldsmobile which cost more. Well behaved yet would accelerate like a muscle car when given pedal to the metal. The 427 probably was quicker but that came at a price compared to the civilized 428.
I suspect that the 427 car would have more than held its own vs. the more stylish and more comfortable Pontiac GTOs,at least the early year GTOs.
Were the FT truck engines the same thing as the FE engines except for perhaps different motor mount pads and/or pads for mounting an air compressor for brakes? The 361 and the 360 the exact same displacement?
Agree the 428 was a better street engine by far
The 361 FT & the 360 FE was the exact same bore & stroke. And actually the exact same block casting. But that's were the similarities ended. The block castings was identical but the machining was different, the crankshaft was different, tge balance different, oil pan, oil pump, pistons, rings, exhoust, heads, valves, timing cover, all very different.
Been told you can use a FT crank in a FE block if you turn down the snout of the crank to fit the timing chain cover front oil seal, I've heard that was done because the FT cranks were steel and the FE cranks were cast iron and i think that they would also have to recut the key way for the balancer after turning the crank snout down
@dinadaughtry8993 yes, that's correct. FT cranks are somtimes sought after. They are steel. They do need some machine work to work in a FE. They are external balanced as well so they need to be rebalanced to work as a FE.
Tough to choice, all are great IMO, but I'd go with the Tbird in the first, and the mustang in the second 😎
Sweet choices =) tried you make the choices tough
Btw, the FE used the same oiling system as the Small Block Chevy. The center oilers were adequate unless you are running NASCAR. Chevy had to go priority main when run in NASCAR also. The 390 block with cross bolted caps can be converted to priority main. 234 only 1 and 5 were still non priority but plenty of oil is available.
I swapped the 390 4v out of a 67 thunderbird into a 69 Ford 100 short bed, talk about a tires smoker 😂😂😂😂😂 id kill to have that ol short bed back 😮
Jay You got a lot of comments and feedback on this engine class Interesting. Tells you something about your audience
His audience is old ??
My audience rocks.. they bring as much to the channel as the videos themselves =)
great vid btw, thank you!
Thank you happy you dig this episode =)
The FE was a GREAT engine. Especially the large "C" cast low at the RH side. The "C" would naturally nicely hook roots or rocks allowing a fishing boat to stay firmly anchored in very rough waters
Hahaha
The 390 in my 66 thunderbird runs fine. Finding a good steering box is the hard part.
I'd take the 1960 Galaxie because that's a Starliner. If it were a 63 Thunderbird I'd probably take that.
For the second, the 67 Thunderbird. No contest. I'd rather have one with fixed headlights though. Such a sporty looking luxury car.
Sweet choices and insight to your choices =)
The 66 merc is actually a '65. I'd take that, i think. Or the '60 galaxie- my family had both, and at the same time even!
Using the periodical element table, the symbol for Iron is"fe"! Nobody can ever figure that out! It's Cast Iron!
I had a 69 XL with a 390fe with dual 4s. It was fun to drive. The intake wasn't factory. I had over 500hp.
That car sounds awesome
I am a Ford guy so I will take them all
Awesome =)
The cammers could be got when I was young in a crate for $1500 or so. Unreal! Days we were buying 65 GT Mustangs used at dealers for $600 clean convertibles for parts.
WOW!!
Tickles me everytime I hear NewtonSquiggles mentioned 😆
One weakness of these engines was the thin bushings in the connecting rod eyes. I’ve seen a good number of these come loose and be in multiple pieces. Connecting rod beams would also bend and twist.
Awesome information thank you so much for adding that
I guess that some of the hi po engines and maybe the Police Interceptor engines might have had beefed up con rods and pistons?