I agree with his sentiment about the Chinese people not being the Chinese government. I know this from personal experience. But it doesn't change the fact that when you buy Chinese made, you're giving the CCP tax revenue. I'm not gonna sit here and pretend I never buy Chinese. Sometimes the price is just too good to ignore. But when doing this I have to acknowledge that, unfortunately, we cannot divorce the act of doing business with the (great) people of China from doing business with the (terrible) CCP.
@@RaytheonTechnologies_Official Well said. The more I’ve gotten into firearms, history, and geopolitics more generally, understanding where and how goods are produced becomes essential. As an outside viewer and consumer, the impact that China has made on every aspect of manufacturing is concerning, particularly due to the risk of overt-dependence for cheap labor. As I’m sure you’re aware, the challenge for the US and allied “western” powers is to incentivize investment in domestic industry, enough to be competitive with the greater Pacific. Hopefully we see that initiative come to fruition within the 2020’s as I believe we would reap the benefits of that in the 2030’s. If not, then I think the CCP may have won a considerable “soft power” victory over the American consumer (if they haven’t already).
@@RaytheonTechnologies_Official I mean, have you heard Chinese people avoid that CCP tax by sending money out of China? A lot of Chinese companies do this, and that is why the Chinese people are being cracked down by the CCP A lot of the money are going into the pockets of Chinese people back then… but the CCP recently cracked down on them
@@exodusz19 This shift is already starting to happen. More and more I'm seeing things that say Made in Vietnam on them, mainly in clothing but I'm sure that ot wpn''t be long before we start seeing other things coming out of Vietnam.
@@RaytheonTechnologies_Official that comment is funny, coming from someone calling himself "Raytheon" xD The sad thing is, every country has skeletons in their closet, be it China or the US or anyone else. One can just try to minimize the damage done through their actions, but we'll never get through life without harming other people and animals and nature..
It's because the people he talks to are usually idiots. People who have to work with idiots often fall back on dumb analogies because stupid people struggle with more abstract thinking.
Came back from NRAAM to find this video had launched and 86k people have already seen it. I'm glad to see all the positive comments. Our Chinese factory rep came to Dallas for NRAAM, brought a bunch of cool prototype optics with him, and hung out with us for the weekend. One thing that we did was compare social media, particularly TikTok and RUclips, on his phone vs. on my phone. WOW what a huge difference. If you look for USA stuff on Chinese TikTok you get a barrage of police bodycam and dash cam videos. China wants their people to think that the USA is an incredibly dangerous place where people get shot down in the street for no reason and the police are in massive running gun battles with gangs all day every day. The overall message is "be grateful that your government protects you and keeps you safe, by taking away all the guns that Americans only use to slaughter each other." What they think about our culture and daily life is incredibly distorted. But I suspect that what we are being told about their culture and daily life is also distorted. This suits our governments just fine. I'm not gonna tell anyone else what to think, but as for myself, I'm skeptical of official narratives and I like talking directly with people face to face, especially with a plate of food in front of us. Be safe. Carry your gun. Protect your right to carry it. --Mike
Did you know everything on a Chinese server belongs to the government? This includes your designs as China does not abide by patent or copyright laws. Simping for Communists is never a good look.
oh no no no..... we aren't being told ENOUGH about chinese culture.... especially their culture of genocide of ethnic muslims and killing over 3 million Uyghurs so far and ripping the children from the rest they haven't killed to give to ethnic Han chinese families to raise as Han and wipe out the Uyghur ethnicity altogether...... don't pander and simp to them @GideonOptics2023
@@AggroNoobs everything gideon optics has said is completely false and just baseless pandering. its not about us having reading comprehension its about him lying and you eating it up. its never a good look to simp for communists .
I thought this was "just" going to be a video about red dot sights (which I'm not even in the market for). Instead, we got a lesson on design, supply, and manufacturing! I love it.
China can make look-at-it-and-it-will-fail stuff for close to nothing, but they also can make Iphones for Apple. The retailer decides which quality and what markup he wants, simple as that (and what reputation he is willing to risk).
only IF you can afford to keep your loyal QC team on-site and provide ample incentive/punishment for non-compliance. Even the Chinese themselves consider domestic products to be dangerous and unreliable. "Imported" is synonymous with "safe". You're really trying to claim it was the retailer's fault, not that the Chinese factory infamously cut corners and made baby-formula fluffed with melamine and sickened thousands of children ... That's insane levels of victim blaming
@@Metapharsical If the retailer is another Chinese company, both are to blame. But that´s neither the case with Apple nor with the guy in the video or (some) other non-Chinese company. There once was a German manufacturer who bought some components from China. QC was over here, and despite a failure rate of 40% the components where cheaper than made domestically, so why send someone over?^Yet still I despise this practice - what can be made in your own country should be!
@@sthenzel fair enough to say there's blame to be shared around. Nonetheless, you understand, IF it can be made domestically..it betrays our interests to outsource jobs to China. We are quite literally 'feeding the dragon' and our dependence on their markets WILL come back to bite us.
I loved watching his videos he made with Swamfox when he'd explain how an optic worked, so a Podcast would be neat to listen to while I am driving. He's got a real passion for what he does.
You can have over 2 hours on the p&s modcast 381 on variables of rds: /watch?v=-PZh4fWSghQ and 1.5 hours on big tex ordonance on optics in general: watch?v=-PZh4fWSghQ
It should also be noted that who makes what can change with time. 5 years ago all the Sig red dots came to the retailer I work at in boxes with the same Chinese return address as Holosun ones did. Both now come in different boxes, most Sigs are made in the US now. No business relationship is permanent.
That's one of the reasons we see new models all the time -not just marketing. Even if they wanted to build the same product as 5 years ago, there would be major hurdles making every run exactly the same.
@@acmhfmggru They did not say that all the products share all the same components. They just said that they may share buttons. You reached very far from the point they actually made into pure supposition.
@@acmhfmggru So it's like US tech industries and aerospace that have always been intimately linked to the US military (and various three letter agencies in the case of tech firms)? The integrated circuit industry in the US was bankrolled by the DoD in its early years and it took more than 8 years for DoD's share of IC production to fall below 50% of the entire industry's output. Talk about civil-military fusion - looks like the Chinese have been copying America in that respect as well.
Not true exactly. High end Sig optics are Assembled in the US so they can be sold to military and law enforcement. Lower end sig optics are still made in china .... Im sure most of the components for the american made dots are made in china, with final assembly in US. even if you wanted to make a 100% american made its impossible as no american companies make those parts. We’ve outsourced most of our manufacturing.
Honestly very surprised on how honest and transparent that guy is, figured it was gonna be a whole “just as good” speech and got a refreshingly honest answer. Before i wouldn’t of ever considered buying one of the Gideon dots, but with that guys attitude i am very tempted to try one out
I’ve been is SaaS sales for a while and can tell this guy is a great salesperson. The entire pitch and prop value are tied to great storytelling and compelling analogies. Props to him.
Chinese here, really appreciate how the man is spitting nothing but truth. Another fun fact however is that we have a *huge* gel blaster airsoft market here, which of course led to lots of sales for accessories that are good enough to be roughed around now and then. I myself own a bunch including a bootleg M2.
Its crazy Australia bans gel blasters but China doesn't, goes to show even totalitarian regimes arent as insecure about threats to their power as nanny states
That's really cool you guys can do airsoft stuff at least, I know you're not permitted to have firearms but you can still have fun, and you're right about the need for rugged optics in that hobby. I know people who are into both here in the US and they just use their actual firearm optics on their airsoft now, because they got tired of buying the bottom bin knockoff stuff and having it fall apart. Naturally there is somewhere in between, and in some areas China excels quite heavily now, particularly in optic brightness from what I've been hearing. No doubt that came in part from a military demand, but the fact that they can sell to your civilian market and ours alone basically justifies the investment in R&D costs necessary to develop such tech.
And even IF they were all out of the same factory or the same 3 factories, that in no way means that they are all "the same". You can produce different levels of quality within the same factory. Thats (afaik) basically the way it is with many amateur telescopes: Multiple different brands come from essentially the same factory, BUT if for example the factory produces one batch of optics, the best 10% go to brand A, the second best 30% percent to brand B and the remaining 60% go to brand C.
The Chinese AK's from Norinco and PolyTech were made in the same factory....but of differing quality. Norinco's are well made, durable firearms but the PolyTech versions much nicer in finish and much smoother in operation. Sounds like much of the same thing with these optics.
@@recoilrob324 I'm 100% that's not fully true, just because Norinco isn't a factory, it's a big contractor. A "Norinco" gun will vary a lot in quality even in the same product line because different factories are producing them. For sure a "premium" gun will have better QC though.
I used to work with a doctor who had a ‘sideline’ in sexual health. He explained to me about one of his trips to China about 25 years ago when a certain‘blue pill’ was relatively new to the market. He was speaking with a Chinese medicine ‘factory’ manager that also turned out to have a rather lucrative business making knock offs of popular medicines including the blue pill. He said that they could make my friend tablets in almost perfect replica packaging, with 10% through to 90% of the actual active ingredients, depending on how much they wanted to spend. They were making everything from antibiotics, the usual run of heart medicines to insulin, to the more expensive ‘lifestyle’ medicines. All in the open, very proud and happy to give tours of their facilities
@@j.murphy4884 the manufacture is the least expensive part of a medicine, it is the research and strict testing done before release that cost the big bucks.
I did some work in China in the early 2000s. I am a power systems engineer. When in meetings it was easy to identify the Communist Party representative in the room. Everyone avoided them at breaks. No one voluntarily talked to them. I found the Chinese people just as you describe. They want the same things we want and are genuinely nice.
i watched the series of these vids ian did. i do like how this guy lays out what the realities of the industry are. he just wants to provide a product that is value oriented. he also isnt against people going for the top of the line stuff either. he just lays out the info and says its up to the consumer to decide based on that. if you want that "better" product of the good, better, best analogy he used, he has something for you. if you want the best, go for it
Mike Branson is the man! Been following him from around the time he left PA. Great dude, very genuine, informative and just stoked on helping people out.
Worked in a company producing ink cartridges 10y ago. There I analyzed the chinese cartridges on ebay, amazon etc. and you had sometimes 5-10 companies copying from each other. Only when you bought them and took them apart you could see the differences.
That was an oversimplification. "They're all still made in China, in a million different factories, to a million different quality standards, and then assembled... somewhere (which is probably also China)" would be the correct summary.
@@andersjjensen Nah it's the assembled in USA part that makes them " renown and high quality" and they can market that heavily. Whether or not it makes a difference... Another question entirely
Great vid, happy you took the time to shoot & post this, let alone ask the question! :P Awesome perspective from Mike on the whole thing, and always nice to see his passion on everything! ;)
I bought a Gideon red dot for my Ruger MK IV. I chose it because of these refreshingly honest interviews. And now that I know that he’s a fellow Houstonian, I like him even more. Side note: I was 15% faster with the dot than I was with irons.
We're working on reviewing the Gideon omega so I've been going back and forth with Mike Branson quite a bit. He really is genuinely a good guy on and off camera. Super knowledgeable and helpful. Definitely a stand up guy.
That was a good point well made about the people of China. I grew up around the RAF in the 80's and 90's, for us the 'enemy' where not the 'people' behind the iron curtain. Nope the Enemy (capital needed here) where, inside the M25, inside the beltway, and inside the Kremlin.
This stuff is always cute, but most of the stupidest and most evil policies pursued by democratic governments are a direct result of the fact that people think those stupid and evil policies are good. The Vietnam war was popular until it wasn't, the invasion of Afghanistan was popular until it wasn't, people voted for Brexit, the Brexit referendum was held because the people wanted it. I'm sorry, but my fellow countrymen are as much my enemy as the politicians, because the politicians are, in fact, expressing the will of the people
@@acmhfmggru As an Englishman I can understand that mentality since I already know I'm better than anyone else. Difference is I don't need my government to tell me I'm superior to Johnny Foreigner.
I recently bought a "Truck Gun". Its cheap, I keep it in my truck at all times. If it gets stolen, it sucks, but I'm not losing the Daniel that I keep in my safe. Went with a PSA 10.5" AR Platform and I outfitted it with all Chinese irons, red dots, slings, fore-grips and a case. Out the door the entire set up cost me $700....for an AR WITH everything I need to survive a scenario if caught out in the wild cities of the USA. There's good and there's "Good Enough". Great video!
It's a sad world where everything is now made in China. Using the car analogy is interesting as at least all the brands mentioned were made in the USA. Thank god that Shield sights are made in the UK and hopefully there are still red dot brands made in the USA.
I had to import 2 of the Shield RMSc's from the UK back in the day because I couldn't find them or the equivalent in any store online. They're nice units to this day. Yeah, they're not forged like the Trijicons and may bend if you step on 'em or drop them wrong but for the price, you get a lot.
A car analogy is interesting although American cars generally have a terrible reputation outside the US. I'm sure they're far better these days but stereotypes die hard. The same isn't true of American brands such as Ford which has generally done well in places like Europe with locally-manufactured models that were designed for those markets.
Nixon and Kissinger assisted the CCP with jumpstarting Chinese industrialization with foreign investment. People speculate it was to generate massive profits for business owners, use capitalism to fight the USSR by separating it and China, and to try to make the CCP a nicer government by showing how beneficial a free-market system was. The results were mixed. Company profits were at a detriment to US workers as they lost their jobs and drug use exploded. The CCP used their profits to control its citizens, fund proxy wars, increase their military power, bully their neighbors, conduct "biologic research", and compromise foreign governments, infrastructure, and companies. Plus, China is now one of the "boogeymen" used to drive foreign nations into making deals and alliances with the US.
There's so much demonisation of 'The Chinese!', both overt and subtextual, that someone just coming out and unequivocally saying "The Chinese people are good and deserve respect, their leaders aren't their fault" is surprising and touching. All kudos to him, and to Ian for keeping it in the video.
There’s state of the art factory’s in China, and there’s the two cars in a dirt floor barn. Both have spectacular websites. In order to use Chinese manufacturers, you had better go in person before doing the deal.
@@George-tz1cvThis. There are some amazing factories in China and there is a proportionally equal amount of terrible factories in China. Consumer protection laws are pretty sparse so scams are obscenely prevalent. Those who orchestrate these scams will try to trick you by any means possible if you’re a manufacturer trying to source parts or a product.
I disagree. TL,DR; This seems like the same tired, progressive gimmickry like "Simu Liu is the first leading Chinese-American in a Marvel Superhero Action film" like none of us know who Jackie Chan or Jet Li or Bruce Lee or Chow Yun-Fat or James Hong or Victor Wong or etc., etc., etc. are. To me, the "there's so much demonisation" is the same stupid, divisive, race-baiting, anti-racism, white-self-flagellating, self-proclaimed-moral-elitist B.S. that the BLM movement propagates in order to profit in a "Bootleggers and Baptists" fashion. In another context, it's like the unspoken unspoken subtext to "I don't mean to sound racist but..." If you run into people or spend a lot of time saying or thinking things like "I won't buy a red dot that's made by filthy, yellow scum." that's really more of a you thing. The rest of us, even if we find Chinese spyware chips on our motherboards, are fairly clear that the guys working the assembly line in China aren't the masterminds behind it. You'd have to be pretty broadly racist against Americans to assume otherwise. Sure, maybe the most bottom-dwelling, low-IQ, out-of-touch 5% of Americans don't understand the difference between the PRC, the CCP, and people living in China and, sure, probably the most cosmopolitan, high-IQ, out-of-touch 5% true believers of America actually thinks the CCP is serving its people well, but the *_vast_* majority of the middle that I come across specifically say "CCP" or "Chicoms" in direct reference to The Party, not "Chinese" in reference to some poor farmer, factory worker, or traffic cop. Frequently, adopting the 'Pooh Bear' criticisms that originated with the natives of China in an as-faithful-as-possible manner. Even the most rabid COVID lab-leak "conspiracists who were correct" laud Li Wenliang, loathe the Chinese government for what they did, are indifferent in terms of holding Wuhan lab workers *_or wet market vendors and customers_* responsible, and actually want to see people Fauci and Walensky strung up by their toes. You'd have to practically be a shut in not to see at least some of this. The only time there's any real vagueness and/or confusion is generally when it comes to actual systemic and rather intentional vagueness and/or confusion such as when Christine Fang winds up working for and "befriending" Eric Swallwell or a number of Chinese immigrants are caught out in bean fields stealing GMO beans for whatever reason. Then there's actually a legitimate question as to whether these people are just regular people or agents acting on behalf of the CCP. And even then, between the Russians we ban and the Middle Easterners we profile and the logistical issues with Mexican and C. Am. immigration we struggle with, it's not really, or exactly, a race or nationality thing as much as it is a demonym thing. "Chinese" succinctly delineates them from Russians and Jews and Palestinians and Arabs and Mexicans and Guatemalans, etc., etc., etc. with a single, accurate word.
FFS, Nike in the 80s got raked over the coals for sweatshop conditions in China. People were getting thrown out of NBA games for expressing solidarity with Hong Kong. People have been back-and-forth concerned about the Uyghurs for years. What kind of idiotic bubble do you live in that you assume anyone/everyone who says "The Chinese!" And, yeah, their leaders are their fault. The same way ours are our fault. That's how this whole individual individual, responsibility, agency, freedom, democratic, republic, sovereign, Western Civilization thing works. You either accept tyrants or you choose get rid of them. It's fine if you choose to accept tyrants, but when you say that other people can't criticize you or them because you or they just accepted a tyrant, then you're advancing their tyranny.
Yeah, pay no attention to those tens of thousands of them coming across the border every month with black backpacks, a map and an unlimited greyhound ticket.
Pretty interesting. Coming from a business management background, it doesn't seem much different than the usual manufacturing supply chain (with plenty of outsourcing).
Air gun manufacturers, a long time ago, found out you can get the Chinese to make anything to an extremely high level of quality. You have to show them what you want. Maybe show them how to do it. And being willing to pay for that level of quality. The Chinese will build whatever you want.
Which will immediate backfire as everyone in China can open up their own company to build things at similar quality at cheaper price. You wonder how Chinese evs are suddenly so good? Well Elon musk invested in a entire supply chain and now Biden slaps a 100% tariff on Chinese evs
And then they steal YOUR design, after YOU teach them how to make it for YOU, and then they build their own knock-off to undercut YOUR product, stealing YOUR R&D.
@@REB4444 and discover that they get lumped in with the rest of the no-name chinese manufacturers hawked products, and then end up not selling the higher quality item because their target consumers just want cheap, not good-but-inexpensive. There comes a point where a name *does* matter, and *does* breed trust.
The issue with the bad quality of stuff from china was (almost) always the refusal to pay the extra for QC (from material to product). They offer it, they can do it, but suits hate to spend more pennies because it makes the shareholders sad.
I’ve dealt with a number of Chinese factories. One of the things he doesn’t mention is that there is a lot of standardization in China. If you order a machine with a water pump, odds are pretty good it will have the same water pump as a host of other magazines from other manufacturers. In many ways this is nice because parts are very interchangeable between machines. Where in the US, if you want a water pump there are 50 water pumps with 20 different variations each.
I'm SO happy this has been said! I took note this in the 70's when stationed in Germany...West Germany to be exact...and have applied this to many situations,,,I call most of those "governments" the biggest bullies as they simply oppress anyone that tries to oppose them.
I don't want the rest of the world to judge me based on the actions of my bloated profligate government, so I am happy to extend the same courtesy to the people in countries around the world.
I agree totally with the commentary in this video, especially the closing comments on the general Chinese people. When i was there 15yrs ago or so, everyone was happy to meet me. I could travel freely and spent time in cities and backwood villages where they cooked with corn leaves as fuel while talking on their mobile phones... in some places i must have been the first foreigner to ever visit and locals had so many questions but were so welcoming. Also the impression i got was that there were lots of laws but they were generally ignored but served to be a deterrent that could be enforced if they wanted. One interesting experience was being in Tianemen Square at dusk. I was stood alone holding a bottle of drink and noticed people leaving and the soldier guards looking at me. It was obvious something was wrong but i guess none of them knew what to do as none spoke English. Eventually i made eye contact with one of the stern faced guys, smiled, and walked towards him. He looked even more agitated and shouted something in Mandarin. I smiled and said a few chinese words i knew that sorry i dont understand. He pointed at my drink. I drank some and he calmed down a bit. By now a few had come over, all a bit nervous. At this point my chinese girlfriend at the time came over , much to their relief, and after a few words everyone started laughing. Turns out that there was a problem at the time with people carrying petrol in bottles and setting fire to themselves there in the evening so there was an after dusk curfew on people with bottles.... In the end, we all took pictures of each other together and left in good spirits. I do wonder if the same would happen under the current regime. I'm sure a lot has changed.....😢
Mike is a tremendously wise fella- equally insightful when discussing optics manufacturing and Chinese domestic politics. There is so much BS marketing in the firearms industry, and it's really refreshing to hear a straight shooter (pun not intended) tell it like it is. Small business entrepreneurs take note- sometimes the best pitch isn't pitching your business at at all, but rather making your values and knowledge freely available for all to see.
Another person Iisten to made a similar observation. No matter where we are from. We the People have more in common with each other than with the people who run our respective countries.
Love these videos with Mike. It would be great to get him into more of studio setting with clear sound and do regular optics chats. He's a goldmine of info. (Maybe a book...?)
Let's not forget part of the reason Chinese stuff is so cheap is because they completely skip the r and d phase. They just copy western companies designs that spent a lot of money developing that technology. Also, who do you want to put food on the table for? American workers or Chinese?
Dude, this reasoning no longer works post 2000. Where are any of our options for manufacturing in this country? If I don't want the highest of high end, I can't find it made here. It's 404'd.
@@lolasdm6959 he just tells them was specs to build it to. They are not inventing the product itself. They're just building it to a spec and utilizing tech they stole from some American company that invented the whole damn thing. Just because you can replicate doesn't mean you pioneered shit.
This guy - THIS GUY ... he speaks it, and he sells it. If I had another platform to buy a red dot (preferably a green dot) for, it would be from Gideon due to him and Ian's conversations.
But there is a catch. The money u spend for the business with them does not go to the laborers, it goes into the pocket of government and MAO gets stronger.
Nixon and Kissinger assisted the CCP with jumpstarting Chinese industrialization with foreign investment. People speculate it was to generate massive profits for business owners, use capitalism to fight the USSR by separating it and China, and to try to make the CCP a nicer government by showing how beneficial a free-market system was. The results were mixed. Company profits were at a detriment to US workers as they lost their jobs and drug use exploded. The CCP used their profits to control its citizens, fund proxy wars, increase their military power, bully their neighbors, conduct "biologic research", and compromise foreign governments, infrastructure, and companies. Plus, China is now one of the "boogeymen" used to drive foreign nations into making deals and alliances with the US.
Going back to the Ford versus Chevy analogy, how much of the money from that Corvette goes to the guy who mounts the wheels versus donations to politicians and paying lobbyists to change government rules and regulations in their favor?
01:50 long story short, China basically steered away from Communism in 1978. According to Deng Xiaoping, "it doesn't matter if a cat is black or white, as long as it catches mice.." He was no fool, either, he was thoroughly educated in Marxian economics, earlier in life than Mao.
I’ve done product development work with manufacturers in China, Germany, and the U.S. for decades. Everything discussed here is good factual information. Great interview.
1:41 China is "Authoritarian Capitalist" They are much more similar to Italy in 1939. Italy in 1939 had the idea, similar to China does now, that you are free to have a business and make money, but as soon as you fall out of favor with the party, you must go and you will be replaced as head of your business by a loyal party member or your busines will just go away.
It's called corporatism. The term 'fascism' gets thrown around a lot, wrongly in the vast majority of cases, but in China's case it actually fits. China is effectively a fascist state. An ethno-nationalist corporatist one party state, which is about the most concise definition of fascism. Communists realized a long time ago that hardline Marxist economics and totally state-owned and centrally-planned economies don't work, they lead to stagnation and eventually collapse, as happened in the USSR despite the late Perestroika reforms which attempted to liberalize their economy and give it room to breathe, too little too late, and as threatened to happen to China, prior to the Deng reforms which liberalized China's economy and which saved it from economic collapse and from suffering the same fate as the USSR. Communists in Russia and China figured that instead of abolishing private property and having the state own everything entirely, they could just get the state to tell business what to do and regulate the economy instead, ending up adopting what is commonly called 'red fascism', out of pragmatism.
I watched the Shotshow videos with Ian and Mike and recently bought the Gideon Advocate Micro-prism sight as a result. Excellent product and excellent service. Highly recommended.
The truth about Chinese manufacturing is that they are absolutely capable of making high quality products, they just tend to be pressured to undercut American manufacturing costs. Look at various Chinese guns that are considered fairly high quality. Such as the Norinco 1911s, M14/M1A or especially the Hawk 870 clones (which are better than the Olin owned Remington product). They make what they're asked to, what the market demands, or what people are willing to pay for. If your willing to pay a higher price then they are more than willing to make high quality products. Most of the time the blame lays with the companies looking to cut costs via outsourcing, not with the Chinese manufacturer.
There are common Chinese idioms that contradict your claim that they will faithfully "do as they are asked". The Mandarin phrase _chabuduo_ comes to mind. Their whole ethos boils down to "Cheat! if you can get away with it" The minute your loyal QC team goes home for the night, the factory becomes a black market of cheap knock-offs, sold out the back door .
Oh No! I've "Hurt the Feelings of Chinese People" en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurting_the_feelings_of_the_Chinese_people Oh bother, -100 social credit and 15 yrs in labor camp for me
@@EcchiRevenge Yeah, sure, whatever. You couldn't think of any legitimate criticisms, so you defaulted to McCarthyist red-baiting BS. Which is honestly a bit sad, really. It reeks of projection. Seriously, try thinking a bit more, empathize more, etc... Your brain is a muscle, exercise it. Sorry, but I don't share your reactionary view of the world. I'm a rational empiricist, meaning I only accept hard, evidence based testing and scientific methodology. I don't get my news from "Q". Please feel free to tell me what I've said that qualifies as "propaganda".
@@polloi84 The Glock is like your Poogooder 69 with the extra head bangers and the swing dingers and the full extra slap dangers while the Colg is more like the Meowoda Slipflipper hecking on the wack the hoop doop honky tonk dang fam swing sloop with all the poop poop.
That fact is, there might be some Chinese factories that will build something of quality, there are tons though that build cheap junk made out of Chinasium. Stop pushing them as just "the other guys." Also, I don't think highly of companies that run to foreign countries to outsource.
Yeah... What he said about the Chinese people may be true, but he's speaking as if their government and economy are set up exactly like the West. They aren't. They may want to make money just like we do, maybe even more so in some ways, sure. That doesn't make them just like us. It just means they aren't communist like they claim they are, but they're still socialist: fascist, to be more accurate. At least, that's the closest system I can think of. It's the blending of corporations with the government, to the point where you aren't sure where one ends and the other begins. While the individual people, the workers, maybe even managers and owners might not be keen on the government that doesn't mean they aren't inherently tied to it. I don't hate the people, but I hate the government and their businesses is inherently tied to the government in a way that makes our own cronyism pale in comparison.
While outsourcing is a drag, so is paying $500 for a "made in the USA" red dot that is resting on laurels of "used by the US military" instead of innovating. And then you look over at the Holosun booth where they have solar recharging, better battery life, and thermals, with duty-grade durability and for less money.
It would be nice If it was discussed in this video about what happens when certain famous persons endorse is a product and the price Blows through the roof when the product has not changed a Single Iota!!! 🤠👍
The way I see it, as a US manufacturer, is that we need talented makers on our soil. In order to have manufacturers on our soil we have to buy from them assuming the quality is there. The cost of having little to no manufacturing in our own neck of the woods will cost more than a person will ever save. And I assure you that if this continues the savings will be temporary anyway. It doesn’t need to be any more complicated than that.
I love this guy he’s very knowledgeable. I made the mistake of buying cheap optics in my youth. Now my optic usually costs more than the weapon I put it on. But I’ve had good performance with some Chinese optics.
Lol. Seems like a long way around to answer the question. He should’ve just said; “we use the same parts suppliers as other companies but have minor changes. And, we charge insanely for something that should be priced at a fraction of our current price.”
@@lolasdm6959 The bureaucracy has him spending valuable campaign time in court I'd say theres plenty being done to him criticising the current administration. Like trying to prevent him running for office ever again.
In some way it is still the same problem: even though there are like 20 factories, since most of the components came from the same suppliers, it is still basically the same product just with different names on them.
Love his commentary at the end. Seems like a genuine guy who just wants everyone to be happy
I agree with his sentiment about the Chinese people not being the Chinese government. I know this from personal experience. But it doesn't change the fact that when you buy Chinese made, you're giving the CCP tax revenue.
I'm not gonna sit here and pretend I never buy Chinese. Sometimes the price is just too good to ignore.
But when doing this I have to acknowledge that, unfortunately, we cannot divorce the act of doing business with the (great) people of China from doing business with the (terrible) CCP.
@@RaytheonTechnologies_Official Well said. The more I’ve gotten into firearms, history, and geopolitics more generally, understanding where and how goods are produced becomes essential. As an outside viewer and consumer, the impact that China has made on every aspect of manufacturing is concerning, particularly due to the risk of overt-dependence for cheap labor. As I’m sure you’re aware, the challenge for the US and allied “western” powers is to incentivize investment in domestic industry, enough to be competitive with the greater Pacific.
Hopefully we see that initiative come to fruition within the 2020’s as I believe we would reap the benefits of that in the 2030’s. If not, then I think the CCP may have won a considerable “soft power” victory over the American consumer (if they haven’t already).
@@RaytheonTechnologies_Official I mean, have you heard Chinese people avoid that CCP tax by sending money out of China? A lot of Chinese companies do this, and that is why the Chinese people are being cracked down by the CCP
A lot of the money are going into the pockets of Chinese people back then… but the CCP recently cracked down on them
@@exodusz19 This shift is already starting to happen. More and more I'm seeing things that say Made in Vietnam on them, mainly in clothing but I'm sure that ot wpn''t be long before we start seeing other things coming out of Vietnam.
@@RaytheonTechnologies_Official that comment is funny, coming from someone calling himself "Raytheon" xD
The sad thing is, every country has skeletons in their closet,
be it China or the US or anyone else.
One can just try to minimize the damage done through their actions, but we'll never get through life without harming other people and animals and nature..
Ian i took your advice on buying military surplus firearms and now it hurts when I pee how do I fix this?
get ur urethra registered as an SBR
Stop molesting your firearms.
You sir have diabetes
Just yell, "that's my purse, I dont know you!"
Better check if you might have kidney stones or an infection of some sort.
This dude loves his car analogies
It's because the people he talks to are usually idiots. People who have to work with idiots often fall back on dumb analogies because stupid people struggle with more abstract thinking.
He’s American 😂
As a guy who sold original car parts: It is all up-priced on feeling/brand not on the quality of the parts. They are cheap aF. ;)
It's relatable. 😅
Car analogies are simple way to people to understand what he is trying
to tell there. Keeping things at simple is selling factor for average customer.
Came back from NRAAM to find this video had launched and 86k people have already seen it. I'm glad to see all the positive comments. Our Chinese factory rep came to Dallas for NRAAM, brought a bunch of cool prototype optics with him, and hung out with us for the weekend. One thing that we did was compare social media, particularly TikTok and RUclips, on his phone vs. on my phone. WOW what a huge difference. If you look for USA stuff on Chinese TikTok you get a barrage of police bodycam and dash cam videos. China wants their people to think that the USA is an incredibly dangerous place where people get shot down in the street for no reason and the police are in massive running gun battles with gangs all day every day. The overall message is "be grateful that your government protects you and keeps you safe, by taking away all the guns that Americans only use to slaughter each other."
What they think about our culture and daily life is incredibly distorted. But I suspect that what we are being told about their culture and daily life is also distorted. This suits our governments just fine. I'm not gonna tell anyone else what to think, but as for myself, I'm skeptical of official narratives and I like talking directly with people face to face, especially with a plate of food in front of us.
Be safe. Carry your gun. Protect your right to carry it. --Mike
Did you know everything on a Chinese server belongs to the government? This includes your designs as China does not abide by patent or copyright laws. Simping for Communists is never a good look.
@@derekmonroe3691 Your reading comprehension skills are impressively broken.
what a protection racket the party has become
oh no no no..... we aren't being told ENOUGH about chinese culture.... especially their culture of genocide of ethnic muslims and killing over 3 million Uyghurs so far and ripping the children from the rest they haven't killed to give to ethnic Han chinese families to raise as Han and wipe out the Uyghur ethnicity altogether...... don't pander and simp to them @GideonOptics2023
@@AggroNoobs everything gideon optics has said is completely false and just baseless pandering. its not about us having reading comprehension its about him lying and you eating it up. its never a good look to simp for communists .
Shot Show. Chauchat. It's just dawned on me why Ian has this obsession with French firearms. It's a subliminal thing.
I had to replay that bit because I heard Chauchat.
That is hilarious tbh.
I'm sure it's the other way around. Ian only went there because he thought it would be a French event.
Chauchat Show = Bob Loblaw's Law Blog
That's it! Shot Show; Chauchat; China = Shit Show...
I thought this was "just" going to be a video about red dot sights (which I'm not even in the market for). Instead, we got a lesson on design, supply, and manufacturing! I love it.
China can make look-at-it-and-it-will-fail stuff for close to nothing, but they also can make Iphones for Apple.
The retailer decides which quality and what markup he wants, simple as that (and what reputation he is willing to risk).
only IF you can afford to keep your loyal QC team on-site and provide ample incentive/punishment for non-compliance.
Even the Chinese themselves consider domestic products to be dangerous and unreliable. "Imported" is synonymous with "safe".
You're really trying to claim it was the retailer's fault, not that the Chinese factory infamously cut corners and made baby-formula fluffed with melamine and sickened thousands of children ...
That's insane levels of victim blaming
that guy's been posting propaganda in response to other comments too, I bet he's paid by japan or something.
@@Metapharsical If the retailer is another Chinese company, both are to blame. But that´s neither the case with Apple nor with the guy in the video or (some) other non-Chinese company.
There once was a German manufacturer who bought some components from China. QC was over here, and despite a failure rate of 40% the components where cheaper than made domestically, so why send someone over?^Yet still I despise this practice - what can be made in your own country should be!
@@sthenzel fair enough to say there's blame to be shared around. Nonetheless, you understand, IF it can be made domestically..it betrays our interests to outsource jobs to China. We are quite literally 'feeding the dragon' and our dependence on their markets WILL come back to bite us.
@@EcchiRevenge go cry about it on weibo
Attorneys have an amazing ability to turn a yes/no question into 5 to 10 minutes of exposition.
Yeah, I forgot what was the subject. Waste of time...
The Mike and Ian show needs to be it's own channel.
You beautiful basterd
I would pay good money for that kind of show.
DEFINITELY
Does Mike have a podcast? Because I would totally listen to him talk optics for like an hour a week or whatever lol.
Seconded.
I loved watching his videos he made with Swamfox when he'd explain how an optic worked, so a Podcast would be neat to listen to while I am driving. He's got a real passion for what he does.
You can have over 2 hours on the p&s modcast 381 on variables of rds:
/watch?v=-PZh4fWSghQ
and
1.5 hours on big tex ordonance on optics in general:
watch?v=-PZh4fWSghQ
better open-source it like Huygens optics does.
It should also be noted that who makes what can change with time. 5 years ago all the Sig red dots came to the retailer I work at in boxes with the same Chinese return address as Holosun ones did. Both now come in different boxes, most Sigs are made in the US now. No business relationship is permanent.
@@acmhfmggru He's saying that people assume *the whole red dot* came from the same factory, when just the buttons may have come from the same factory.
That's one of the reasons we see new models all the time -not just marketing. Even if they wanted to build the same product as 5 years ago, there would be major hurdles making every run exactly the same.
@@acmhfmggru They did not say that all the products share all the same components. They just said that they may share buttons. You reached very far from the point they actually made into pure supposition.
@@acmhfmggru So it's like US tech industries and aerospace that have always been intimately linked to the US military (and various three letter agencies in the case of tech firms)? The integrated circuit industry in the US was bankrolled by the DoD in its early years and it took more than 8 years for DoD's share of IC production to fall below 50% of the entire industry's output. Talk about civil-military fusion - looks like the Chinese have been copying America in that respect as well.
Not true exactly. High end Sig optics are Assembled in the US so they can be sold to military and law enforcement. Lower end sig optics are still made in china .... Im sure most of the components for the american made dots are made in china, with final assembly in US. even if you wanted to make a 100% american made its impossible as no american companies make those parts. We’ve outsourced most of our manufacturing.
Honestly very surprised on how honest and transparent that guy is, figured it was gonna be a whole “just as good” speech and got a refreshingly honest answer. Before i wouldn’t of ever considered buying one of the Gideon dots, but with that guys attitude i am very tempted to try one out
I’ve been is SaaS sales for a while and can tell this guy is a great salesperson. The entire pitch and prop value are tied to great storytelling and compelling analogies. Props to him.
Chinese here, really appreciate how the man is spitting nothing but truth. Another fun fact however is that we have a *huge* gel blaster airsoft market here, which of course led to lots of sales for accessories that are good enough to be roughed around now and then. I myself own a bunch including a bootleg M2.
Its crazy Australia bans gel blasters but China doesn't, goes to show even totalitarian regimes arent as insecure about threats to their power as nanny states
That's really cool you guys can do airsoft stuff at least, I know you're not permitted to have firearms but you can still have fun, and you're right about the need for rugged optics in that hobby. I know people who are into both here in the US and they just use their actual firearm optics on their airsoft now, because they got tired of buying the bottom bin knockoff stuff and having it fall apart. Naturally there is somewhere in between, and in some areas China excels quite heavily now, particularly in optic brightness from what I've been hearing. No doubt that came in part from a military demand, but the fact that they can sell to your civilian market and ours alone basically justifies the investment in R&D costs necessary to develop such tech.
Isn't RUclips banned in China?
Mmm, yes, training muscle memory and tactics safely and affordably, very nice 👍
@@UnCoolDad VPN utilization in China is fucking huge. It's not very hard to get past their ISP blocks there. Kinda cool.
And even IF they were all out of the same factory or the same 3 factories, that in no way means that they are all "the same". You can produce different levels of quality within the same factory. Thats (afaik) basically the way it is with many amateur telescopes: Multiple different brands come from essentially the same factory, BUT if for example the factory produces one batch of optics, the best 10% go to brand A, the second best 30% percent to brand B and the remaining 60% go to brand C.
that is literally what he said
The Chinese AK's from Norinco and PolyTech were made in the same factory....but of differing quality. Norinco's are well made, durable firearms but the PolyTech versions much nicer in finish and much smoother in operation. Sounds like much of the same thing with these optics.
@@recoilrob324 I'm 100% that's not fully true, just because Norinco isn't a factory, it's a big contractor. A "Norinco" gun will vary a lot in quality even in the same product line because different factories are producing them. For sure a "premium" gun will have better QC though.
And 90% of microwave ovens globally come out of one factory in China…
@@j.murphy4884they never said norinco was a factory
I used to work with a doctor who had a ‘sideline’ in sexual health. He explained to me about one of his trips to China about 25 years ago when a certain‘blue pill’ was relatively new to the market. He was speaking with a Chinese medicine ‘factory’ manager that also turned out to have a rather lucrative business making knock offs of popular medicines including the blue pill. He said that they could make my friend tablets in almost perfect replica packaging, with 10% through to 90% of the actual active ingredients, depending on how much they wanted to spend. They were making everything from antibiotics, the usual run of heart medicines to insulin, to the more expensive ‘lifestyle’ medicines. All in the open, very proud and happy to give tours of their facilities
Well yeah, most of these medicines "made in the USA" have absurd prices because of price fixing, they're not actually that expensive.
@@j.murphy4884 Incorrect.
Correct the actual product does not cost that much. However the research, development, legal hurdles, etc. are all reflected in the price.
@@j.murphy4884 the manufacture is the least expensive part of a medicine, it is the research and strict testing done before release that cost the big bucks.
So did he test the pills while he was there and figure out the best mix?
I did some work in China in the early 2000s. I am a power systems engineer. When in meetings it was easy to identify the Communist Party representative in the room. Everyone avoided them at breaks. No one voluntarily talked to them. I found the Chinese people just as you describe. They want the same things we want and are genuinely nice.
i watched the series of these vids ian did. i do like how this guy lays out what the realities of the industry are. he just wants to provide a product that is value oriented. he also isnt against people going for the top of the line stuff either. he just lays out the info and says its up to the consumer to decide based on that. if you want that "better" product of the good, better, best analogy he used, he has something for you. if you want the best, go for it
Mike Branson is the man! Been following him from around the time he left PA. Great dude, very genuine, informative and just stoked on helping people out.
I'd be partial to a long-format interview with Mike and Ian. Each iteration of these videos was very enlighting
Worked in a company producing ink cartridges 10y ago. There I analyzed the chinese cartridges on ebay, amazon etc. and you had sometimes 5-10 companies copying from each other. Only when you bought them and took them apart you could see the differences.
Always good to see Mike around!
The backend of the business is always an interesting story. 😂😅😊
其实不需要$50，实际上只需要￥50，另外，谢谢Mike Branson的理解和支持。
So, long story short: they're all still made in China just in a million different factories, and then assembled... somewhere.
Yep, just like the MAGA’s ‘made in Murica!’ Stuff. Will still have “made in China” all over it
Right, exactly what everyone assumed
That was an oversimplification. "They're all still made in China, in a million different factories, to a million different quality standards, and then assembled... somewhere (which is probably also China)" would be the correct summary.
@@andersjjensen Nah it's the assembled in USA part that makes them " renown and high quality" and they can market that heavily. Whether or not it makes a difference... Another question entirely
Differentiation of labor.
Sums it up
Great analogies Mike.
Oh hell yeah, I had to click on this title, & very happy to watch another interview with Mike Branson
Great vid, happy you took the time to shoot & post this, let alone ask the question! :P
Awesome perspective from Mike on the whole thing, and always nice to see his passion on everything! ;)
Ian rocking the Wick waistcoat.
Good conversation.
I bought a Gideon red dot for my Ruger MK IV. I chose it because of these refreshingly honest interviews. And now that I know that he’s a fellow Houstonian, I like him even more. Side note: I was 15% faster with the dot than I was with irons.
We're working on reviewing the Gideon omega so I've been going back and forth with Mike Branson quite a bit. He really is genuinely a good guy on and off camera. Super knowledgeable and helpful. Definitely a stand up guy.
That was a good point well made about the people of China.
I grew up around the RAF in the 80's and 90's, for us the 'enemy' where not the 'people' behind the iron curtain.
Nope the Enemy (capital needed here) where, inside the M25, inside the beltway, and inside the Kremlin.
And they never left the Kremlin
@@LordJuan4 They're still inside the Beltway, too... and have declared a lot of "the people" their enemies.
Just wait until you meet the ones that aren't your enemy! 😂
This stuff is always cute, but most of the stupidest and most evil policies pursued by democratic governments are a direct result of the fact that people think those stupid and evil policies are good. The Vietnam war was popular until it wasn't, the invasion of Afghanistan was popular until it wasn't, people voted for Brexit, the Brexit referendum was held because the people wanted it. I'm sorry, but my fellow countrymen are as much my enemy as the politicians, because the politicians are, in fact, expressing the will of the people
@@acmhfmggru As an Englishman I can understand that mentality since I already know I'm better than anyone else. Difference is I don't need my government to tell me I'm superior to Johnny Foreigner.
Fantastic interview. Really good information.
I'm not sure if this was a "quick lightning round true or false".
I recently bought a "Truck Gun". Its cheap, I keep it in my truck at all times. If it gets stolen, it sucks, but I'm not losing the Daniel that I keep in my safe. Went with a PSA 10.5" AR Platform and I outfitted it with all Chinese irons, red dots, slings, fore-grips and a case. Out the door the entire set up cost me $700....for an AR WITH everything I need to survive a scenario if caught out in the wild cities of the USA. There's good and there's "Good Enough". Great video!
Save a buck and screw the American economy, why not, you got yours, right?
It's a sad world where everything is now made in China. Using the car analogy is interesting as at least all the brands mentioned were made in the USA. Thank god that Shield sights are made in the UK and hopefully there are still red dot brands made in the USA.
Trijicon
@@rklkify Sorry forgot about them and I even own one of their sights.
I had to import 2 of the Shield RMSc's from the UK back in the day because I couldn't find them or the equivalent in any store online. They're nice units to this day. Yeah, they're not forged like the Trijicons and may bend if you step on 'em or drop them wrong but for the price, you get a lot.
A car analogy is interesting although American cars generally have a terrible reputation outside the US. I'm sure they're far better these days but stereotypes die hard.
The same isn't true of American brands such as Ford which has generally done well in places like Europe with locally-manufactured models that were designed for those markets.
Nixon and Kissinger assisted the CCP with jumpstarting Chinese industrialization with foreign investment. People speculate it was to generate massive profits for business owners, use capitalism to fight the USSR by separating it and China, and to try to make the CCP a nicer government by showing how beneficial a free-market system was. The results were mixed. Company profits were at a detriment to US workers as they lost their jobs and drug use exploded. The CCP used their profits to control its citizens, fund proxy wars, increase their military power, bully their neighbors, conduct "biologic research", and compromise foreign governments, infrastructure, and companies. Plus, China is now one of the "boogeymen" used to drive foreign nations into making deals and alliances with the US.
This was uhhh......the most interview of all time.
There's so much demonisation of 'The Chinese!', both overt and subtextual, that someone just coming out and unequivocally saying "The Chinese people are good and deserve respect, their leaders aren't their fault" is surprising and touching. All kudos to him, and to Ian for keeping it in the video.
There’s state of the art factory’s in China, and there’s the two cars in a dirt floor barn. Both have spectacular websites. In order to use Chinese manufacturers, you had better go in person before doing the deal.
@@George-tz1cvThis. There are some amazing factories in China and there is a proportionally equal amount of terrible factories in China. Consumer protection laws are pretty sparse so scams are obscenely prevalent. Those who orchestrate these scams will try to trick you by any means possible if you’re a manufacturer trying to source parts or a product.
I disagree. TL,DR; This seems like the same tired, progressive gimmickry like "Simu Liu is the first leading Chinese-American in a Marvel Superhero Action film" like none of us know who Jackie Chan or Jet Li or Bruce Lee or Chow Yun-Fat or James Hong or Victor Wong or etc., etc., etc. are.
To me, the "there's so much demonisation" is the same stupid, divisive, race-baiting, anti-racism, white-self-flagellating, self-proclaimed-moral-elitist B.S. that the BLM movement propagates in order to profit in a "Bootleggers and Baptists" fashion. In another context, it's like the unspoken unspoken subtext to "I don't mean to sound racist but..." If you run into people or spend a lot of time saying or thinking things like "I won't buy a red dot that's made by filthy, yellow scum." that's really more of a you thing. The rest of us, even if we find Chinese spyware chips on our motherboards, are fairly clear that the guys working the assembly line in China aren't the masterminds behind it. You'd have to be pretty broadly racist against Americans to assume otherwise.
Sure, maybe the most bottom-dwelling, low-IQ, out-of-touch 5% of Americans don't understand the difference between the PRC, the CCP, and people living in China and, sure, probably the most cosmopolitan, high-IQ, out-of-touch 5% true believers of America actually thinks the CCP is serving its people well, but the *_vast_* majority of the middle that I come across specifically say "CCP" or "Chicoms" in direct reference to The Party, not "Chinese" in reference to some poor farmer, factory worker, or traffic cop. Frequently, adopting the 'Pooh Bear' criticisms that originated with the natives of China in an as-faithful-as-possible manner. Even the most rabid COVID lab-leak "conspiracists who were correct" laud Li Wenliang, loathe the Chinese government for what they did, are indifferent in terms of holding Wuhan lab workers *_or wet market vendors and customers_* responsible, and actually want to see people Fauci and Walensky strung up by their toes. You'd have to practically be a shut in not to see at least some of this.
The only time there's any real vagueness and/or confusion is generally when it comes to actual systemic and rather intentional vagueness and/or confusion such as when Christine Fang winds up working for and "befriending" Eric Swallwell or a number of Chinese immigrants are caught out in bean fields stealing GMO beans for whatever reason. Then there's actually a legitimate question as to whether these people are just regular people or agents acting on behalf of the CCP. And even then, between the Russians we ban and the Middle Easterners we profile and the logistical issues with Mexican and C. Am. immigration we struggle with, it's not really, or exactly, a race or nationality thing as much as it is a demonym thing. "Chinese" succinctly delineates them from Russians and Jews and Palestinians and Arabs and Mexicans and Guatemalans, etc., etc., etc. with a single, accurate word.
FFS, Nike in the 80s got raked over the coals for sweatshop conditions in China. People were getting thrown out of NBA games for expressing solidarity with Hong Kong. People have been back-and-forth concerned about the Uyghurs for years. What kind of idiotic bubble do you live in that you assume anyone/everyone who says "The Chinese!"
And, yeah, their leaders are their fault. The same way ours are our fault. That's how this whole individual individual, responsibility, agency, freedom, democratic, republic, sovereign, Western Civilization thing works. You either accept tyrants or you choose get rid of them. It's fine if you choose to accept tyrants, but when you say that other people can't criticize you or them because you or they just accepted a tyrant, then you're advancing their tyranny.
Yeah, pay no attention to those tens of thousands of them coming across the border every month with black backpacks, a map and an unlimited greyhound ticket.
Pretty interesting. Coming from a business management background, it doesn't seem much different than the usual manufacturing supply chain (with plenty of outsourcing).
Air gun manufacturers, a long time ago, found out you can get the Chinese to make anything to an extremely high level of quality. You have to show them what you want. Maybe show them how to do it. And being willing to pay for that level of quality. The Chinese will build whatever you want.
Which will immediate backfire as everyone in China can open up their own company to build things at similar quality at cheaper price.
You wonder how Chinese evs are suddenly so good? Well Elon musk invested in a entire supply chain and now Biden slaps a 100% tariff on Chinese evs
And then they steal YOUR design, after YOU teach them how to make it for YOU, and then they build their own knock-off to undercut YOUR product, stealing YOUR R&D.
@@REB4444 and discover that they get lumped in with the rest of the no-name chinese manufacturers hawked products, and then end up not selling the higher quality item because their target consumers just want cheap, not good-but-inexpensive. There comes a point where a name *does* matter, and *does* breed trust.
The issue with the bad quality of stuff from china was (almost) always the refusal to pay the extra for QC (from material to product). They offer it, they can do it, but suits hate to spend more pennies because it makes the shareholders sad.
@@REB4444 Occasionally that is exactly the plan.
What a great video and excellent details from Mike 🤜🤛
I’ve dealt with a number of Chinese factories. One of the things he doesn’t mention is that there is a lot of standardization in China. If you order a machine with a water pump, odds are pretty good it will have the same water pump as a host of other magazines from other manufacturers. In many ways this is nice because parts are very interchangeable between machines. Where in the US, if you want a water pump there are 50 water pumps with 20 different variations each.
Yes because the 50 other factories were started by guys originating from the single og factory
I just subbed because Mike warmed my heart with his commentary. I hope you interview him again next year.
I don't make a habit of seeking the truth from salesman.
“The truth is not always beautiful, nor beautiful words the truth.” -Laozi
What a lovely man. Appreciate this! Good luck to Gideon optics and all!
Ian making a hit piece story at a gun show, haha.
Ian the great kind of youtuber to release a 9:57 video and not add 4 seconds of fluff.
And that's why we stay so loyal!!
That's the problem, you can ended up getting sub $100 optic parts in your $1000 optic because they could just swap them out after the first batch
That's what your Quality Control team is for.
Really digging this series of a business owner being really honest about his market.
I'm SO happy this has been said! I took note this in the 70's when stationed in Germany...West Germany to be exact...and have applied this to many situations,,,I call most of those "governments" the biggest bullies as they simply oppress anyone that tries to oppose them.
Great interview and some wise observations 👍🏻
I don't want the rest of the world to judge me based on the actions of my bloated profligate government, so I am happy to extend the same courtesy to the people in countries around the world.
What a stand up guy!! thanks for the interview gun Jesus 💪🏽💯
"When you're declawed you're somebody's pet"
Mike's candor and good demeanor are the best advertising model for optics in the business.
I agree totally with the commentary in this video, especially the closing comments on the general Chinese people. When i was there 15yrs ago or so, everyone was happy to meet me. I could travel freely and spent time in cities and backwood villages where they cooked with corn leaves as fuel while talking on their mobile phones... in some places i must have been the first foreigner to ever visit and locals had so many questions but were so welcoming. Also the impression i got was that there were lots of laws but they were generally ignored but served to be a deterrent that could be enforced if they wanted.
One interesting experience was being in Tianemen Square at dusk. I was stood alone holding a bottle of drink and noticed people leaving and the soldier guards looking at me. It was obvious something was wrong but i guess none of them knew what to do as none spoke English. Eventually i made eye contact with one of the stern faced guys, smiled, and walked towards him. He looked even more agitated and shouted something in Mandarin. I smiled and said a few chinese words i knew that sorry i dont understand. He pointed at my drink. I drank some and he calmed down a bit. By now a few had come over, all a bit nervous. At this point my chinese girlfriend at the time came over , much to their relief, and after a few words everyone started laughing. Turns out that there was a problem at the time with people carrying petrol in bottles and setting fire to themselves there in the evening so there was an after dusk curfew on people with bottles.... In the end, we all took pictures of each other together and left in good spirits. I do wonder if the same would happen under the current regime. I'm sure a lot has changed.....😢
Mike is a tremendously wise fella- equally insightful when discussing optics manufacturing and Chinese domestic politics. There is so much BS marketing in the firearms industry, and it's really refreshing to hear a straight shooter (pun not intended) tell it like it is. Small business entrepreneurs take note- sometimes the best pitch isn't pitching your business at at all, but rather making your values and knowledge freely available for all to see.
Another person Iisten to made a similar observation.
No matter where we are from. We the People have more in common with each other than with the people who run our respective countries.
Well now you are talking like a proper commie it’s the basic tenet of internationalism
Unfortunately, no
Love these videos with Mike. It would be great to get him into more of studio setting with clear sound and do regular optics chats. He's a goldmine of info. (Maybe a book...?)
Let's not forget part of the reason Chinese stuff is so cheap is because they completely skip the r and d phase. They just copy western companies designs that spent a lot of money developing that technology. Also, who do you want to put food on the table for? American workers or Chinese?
Amen!!! 🤠👍
Dude, this reasoning no longer works post 2000. Where are any of our options for manufacturing in this country? If I don't want the highest of high end, I can't find it made here. It's 404'd.
Bros not paying attention, this guy just told you Chinese companies paid him to help with R and D.
@@lolasdm6959 he just tells them was specs to build it to. They are not inventing the product itself. They're just building it to a spec and utilizing tech they stole from some American company that invented the whole damn thing. Just because you can replicate doesn't mean you pioneered shit.
@@chrxx4327 L
US stole combustion engines from Germans and built Ford your point is?
Great video and a refreshing point of view
His point of view is the correct response.
600 words, 10mins, to say 'out sourcing'.
This guy - THIS GUY ... he speaks it, and he sells it. If I had another platform to buy a red dot (preferably a green dot) for, it would be from Gideon due to him and Ian's conversations.
Does this guy use gun analogies to explain car stuff?
the bullet is just an engine
Tell me you drive a Toyota without telling me you drive a Toyota.
Fun fact: Being money hungry and greedy is not a characteristic of Capitalism. It is a human characteristic
Normally I’d never consider chicom, but I like this guy’s passion.
Nothing like listening to a sales guy explain stuff he doesn’t understand himself.
This was an outstanding video Ian, an interesting piece, with first hand observations that taught me something new. Great guy to have on. Thank you.
But there is a catch. The money u spend for the business with them does not go to the laborers, it goes into the pocket of government and MAO gets stronger.
Exactly. Why do people not care/understand this damn point.
So, workers in China don't get paid? Please explain that one to me. 🙄
Their government is also very liberal with generous loans and expects many benefits for those who take them
Nixon and Kissinger assisted the CCP with jumpstarting Chinese industrialization with foreign investment. People speculate it was to generate massive profits for business owners, use capitalism to fight the USSR by separating it and China, and to try to make the CCP a nicer government by showing how beneficial a free-market system was. The results were mixed. Company profits were at a detriment to US workers as they lost their jobs and drug use exploded. The CCP used their profits to control its citizens, fund proxy wars, increase their military power, bully their neighbors, conduct "biologic research", and compromise foreign governments, infrastructure, and companies. Plus, China is now one of the "boogeymen" used to drive foreign nations into making deals and alliances with the US.
Going back to the Ford versus Chevy analogy, how much of the money from that Corvette goes to the guy who mounts the wheels versus donations to politicians and paying lobbyists to change government rules and regulations in their favor?
Cool af. Appreciate the insight into production models overseas.
01:50 long story short, China basically steered away from Communism in 1978. According to Deng Xiaoping, "it doesn't matter if a cat is black or white, as long as it catches mice.." He was no fool, either, he was thoroughly educated in Marxian economics, earlier in life than Mao.
I’ve done product development work with manufacturers in China, Germany, and the U.S. for decades. Everything discussed here is good factual information. Great interview.
1:41 China is "Authoritarian Capitalist"
They are much more similar to Italy in 1939.
Italy in 1939 had the idea, similar to China does now, that you are free to have a business and make money, but as soon as you fall out of favor with the party, you must go and you will be replaced as head of your business by a loyal party member or your busines will just go away.
True, it's not the same as free market capitalism.
That's not what he said, he just Chinese people like to make money. Sounds like you don't know much about China at all
You just described authoritarian capitalism, sounds like he was right
It's called corporatism. The term 'fascism' gets thrown around a lot, wrongly in the vast majority of cases, but in China's case it actually fits. China is effectively a fascist state. An ethno-nationalist corporatist one party state, which is about the most concise definition of fascism. Communists realized a long time ago that hardline Marxist economics and totally state-owned and centrally-planned economies don't work, they lead to stagnation and eventually collapse, as happened in the USSR despite the late Perestroika reforms which attempted to liberalize their economy and give it room to breathe, too little too late, and as threatened to happen to China, prior to the Deng reforms which liberalized China's economy and which saved it from economic collapse and from suffering the same fate as the USSR. Communists in Russia and China figured that instead of abolishing private property and having the state own everything entirely, they could just get the state to tell business what to do and regulate the economy instead, ending up adopting what is commonly called 'red fascism', out of pragmatism.
@@rayf1568you don't tow the party line in China you will be gone wherever you are !! "Fact"
I watched the Shotshow videos with Ian and Mike and recently bought the Gideon Advocate Micro-prism sight as a result. Excellent product and excellent service.
Highly recommended.
The truth about Chinese manufacturing is that they are absolutely capable of making high quality products, they just tend to be pressured to undercut American manufacturing costs. Look at various Chinese guns that are considered fairly high quality. Such as the Norinco 1911s, M14/M1A or especially the Hawk 870 clones (which are better than the Olin owned Remington product). They make what they're asked to, what the market demands, or what people are willing to pay for. If your willing to pay a higher price then they are more than willing to make high quality products. Most of the time the blame lays with the companies looking to cut costs via outsourcing, not with the Chinese manufacturer.
There are common Chinese idioms that contradict your claim that they will faithfully "do as they are asked".
The Mandarin phrase _chabuduo_ comes to mind.
Their whole ethos boils down to "Cheat! if you can get away with it"
The minute your loyal QC team goes home for the night, the factory becomes a black market of cheap knock-offs, sold out the back door .
also that guy's been posting propaganda in response to other comments too, I bet he's paid by japan or something.
Oh No!
I've "Hurt the Feelings of Chinese People"
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurting_the_feelings_of_the_Chinese_people
Oh bother, -100 social credit and 15 yrs in labor camp for me
called it
@@EcchiRevenge Yeah, sure, whatever. You couldn't think of any legitimate criticisms, so you defaulted to McCarthyist red-baiting BS. Which is honestly a bit sad, really. It reeks of projection. Seriously, try thinking a bit more, empathize more, etc... Your brain is a muscle, exercise it.
Sorry, but I don't share your reactionary view of the world. I'm a rational empiricist, meaning I only accept hard, evidence based testing and scientific methodology. I don't get my news from "Q". Please feel free to tell me what I've said that qualifies as "propaganda".
When people start endlessly comparing guns to cars my eyes glaze over and I have a stroke and die.
Not every comment on this video is like a Corvette. For instance this one is more of a Malibu or Cobalt.
@@polloi84 The Glock is like your Poogooder 69 with the extra head bangers and the swing dingers and the full extra slap dangers while the Colg is more like the Meowoda Slipflipper hecking on the wack the hoop doop honky tonk dang fam swing sloop with all the poop poop.
@@mabs9503 he will never recover from this
this "lightening round of questions" turned out to just be one question and then the answer.
Every video with this guy is a treat
Nice story, man. How about more dragons next time?
What a lovely chap, I could listen to him talk for hours.
That fact is, there might be some Chinese factories that will build something of quality, there are tons though that build cheap junk made out of Chinasium. Stop pushing them as just "the other guys." Also, I don't think highly of companies that run to foreign countries to outsource.
Yeah... What he said about the Chinese people may be true, but he's speaking as if their government and economy are set up exactly like the West. They aren't. They may want to make money just like we do, maybe even more so in some ways, sure. That doesn't make them just like us. It just means they aren't communist like they claim they are, but they're still socialist: fascist, to be more accurate. At least, that's the closest system I can think of. It's the blending of corporations with the government, to the point where you aren't sure where one ends and the other begins. While the individual people, the workers, maybe even managers and owners might not be keen on the government that doesn't mean they aren't inherently tied to it. I don't hate the people, but I hate the government and their businesses is inherently tied to the government in a way that makes our own cronyism pale in comparison.
While outsourcing is a drag, so is paying $500 for a "made in the USA" red dot that is resting on laurels of "used by the US military" instead of innovating. And then you look over at the Holosun booth where they have solar recharging, better battery life, and thermals, with duty-grade durability and for less money.
He's such a good guest.
But reality literally shows you that every single acro style sight is the exact same one with a slight tweak. Marooned Gun Memes has the whole list
Another great video
It would be nice If it was discussed in this video about what happens when certain famous persons endorse is a product and the price Blows through the roof when the product has not changed a Single Iota!!! 🤠👍
That's basic supply and demand. If supply doesn't change, and demand spikes, this means prices go up.
The way I see it, as a US manufacturer, is that we need talented makers on our soil. In order to have manufacturers on our soil we have to buy from them assuming the quality is there. The cost of having little to no manufacturing in our own neck of the woods will cost more than a person will ever save. And I assure you that if this continues the savings will be temporary anyway. It doesn’t need to be any more complicated than that.
Well thank you for fifteen minutes of analogies and almost no information on your product
I love this guy he’s very knowledgeable. I made the mistake of buying cheap optics in my youth. Now my optic usually costs more than the weapon I put it on. But I’ve had good performance with some Chinese optics.
Also the key to making your optic last longer is don’t use cheap battery’s that leak acid.
He didn't want to move to Colorado ??... Nonsense !
Lol. Seems like a long way around to answer the question. He should’ve just said; “we use the same parts suppliers as other companies but have minor changes. And, we charge insanely for something that should be priced at a fraction of our current price.”
Don’t be so sure about bumper stickers in the USA
Can't wait for my Green Gideon prism to get in! Got any idea when the next batch will arrive?
You can complain about the govt all you want in the US. Nothing will happen to you, and nothing will happen to the govt.
DJ Trump might disagree with you.
@@causewaykayakoh please there is an entire beurocracy to keep trump from doing anything. It’s his pacifier😂
Yes and that is why the gov ain’t scare of it
@@lolasdm6959 The bureaucracy has him spending valuable campaign time in court
I'd say theres plenty being done to him criticising the current administration. Like trying to prevent him running for office ever again.
Very enlightening. Thanks for the video!
Their government is fascist, not communist. Very few nations are still communist.
lol
Mr. Branson is fantastic. Fountain of knowledge. Conveys it well. Very informative.
In some way it is still the same problem: even though there are like 20 factories, since most of the components came from the same suppliers, it is still basically the same product just with different names on them.
Mike has become one of my favorite guest stars, love a man who calls a spade a spade