I discuss at length Jon Fosse's new, very short (37 pages) novella "A Shining" which I had though might represent a way into his work for me, having never previously read him. I was wrong...
I don’t think A Shining compares to The Septology in terms of style, though my own impression is skewed positive because of my love for The Septology. That said I can’t promise you that the Septology’s language will impress you. His language in those books is generally simple and scenes/images are repeated so that over the course of the cycle impressions and details accumulate. The style isn’t a matter of the words used so much as a slow building of emotional weight and understanding. As for the Septology being about an alcoholic it really isn’t. There is an alcoholic and there is drinking. There are scenes of the alcoholic drinking, having episodes, and being hospitalized but the books are not about alcoholism or the alcoholic doppelgänger. Certainly Fosse isn’t an author you have to read more of, but if you want to know I can’t see anything for it but to try the Septology
I thought I'd try A Shining as a taster of Fosse to help me consider whether to risk Septology. I was underwhelmed although my reaction was not as virulent as yours. For example the opening use of "nice" jarred but I presumed that was intentional to tell me the narrator was a dull man. In places I found it quite hypnotic but overall I was not excited or driven to read more by him. Fosse lovers tell me Aliss at the Fire is a more representative short work by him.
I love your short reviews/vids and I love when you go against the grain....other than when you speak about a writer whom I don't know, my fave reviews are when your unbuckle your frustration with a book--it is fabulous...im on a deadline (12 pm today), so will try to come back later, but wanted to ask (can't believe we haven't chatted) if you've read Beckett's Trilogy?...for me THE apotheosis of repetitive prose, of reduced language, or humour/angst in the English cannon...if you have NOT read it, I'm ordering immediately for you...there is no series close....it is so great, when im feeling sated or dried up with my own attempts to unbuckle language, I open it randomly....it will cleanse you too, of your reaction to fossee--like a good mouthwash.....bb
I read some of Scenes from a Childhood and found roughly the same problems in spots. Undercooked narratives and clumsy, overly simplistic prose. However, I’m still going to give the Septology a spin at some point.
I have being asking people this question but I am not getting any answers. At all. Please help. I have read Septology and I rather enjoyed it. Not so much the christian parts. My question is: are the other books by Fosse so full of christian parts as Septology is ?
@@MarcNash Oh, but thank you very much for taking the time to answer me. I am just finishing re-reading Robert Walser's The Robber. Highly recommended, there's a very singular and fascinating voice.
For whatever it's worth, regarding your critique of the opening and the line 'It was nice,' I'd like to point out that the original Norwegian text reads 'Det gjorde godt,' which literally means 'It did good.' I agree with you to some extent, but I'd argue the text doesn't feel as silly in its original language. E.g. the use of the word 'yes' as a sort of filler sounds weird to me in English, while this is not the case in Norwegian. I haven't read the translation so this is based off of snippets you and others have provided. Also, as a fun fact, a more literal translation of the title would be: 'Whiteness.' The book that hooked me on Fosse, 'Melancholy,' is a far greater representation of his abilities within stream of consciousness writing. In this book you really get a sense of the character's inner state of angst and turmoil, and the repetitions add to the narrative, rather than halt it. Perhaps A Shining is better read as a work of prose poetry. It's certainly not suspenseful. But as an allegory for death, the character's irrationality as he stumbles into the 'journey' might just leave something to think about.
@@MarcNash Glad to hear! To me it seems Fosse is easy to loose in translation, as the perceived clumsiness in his texts is actually a manner of speech in Norway, particularly the west. So it’s sort of written as would be spoken (as thought). Although don’t get me wrong, they are also quite clumsy in Norwegian haha, but I usually find it adds to my interpretation of the characters. Anyways, if you come to read it I do wish you a good reading experience :)
SEPTOLOGY is a masterpiece; A SHINING is a poor work in the same style. I didn’t care for it. It felt like if Lucy Ellmann decided to write a 50-page story in the same voice as DUCKS, NEWBURYPORT. It’s like, okay, you’ve already mastered this form in your magnum opus, so why do it again but worse?
"But you just can't touch a whiteness like that. Because if you did, you'd probably get it dirty." (fosse), .."I shall soon be quite dead alas despite it all" (beckett, Malone Dies).....so, I have re-reat A Shining...and I spent 30 minutes after re-reading some of Molloy and Malone Dies....these two quotes signify the profound difference between the two writers....one, often steeped in cliche and an attempt to be 'deep' or 'allegorical', the other just a truth teller...when i first read A Shining, I was on my way to London (november) and i had just finished Septology (which I had liked alot) and so I read A Shining in a very quick leap...much of it i found childish and cliche and embarrassingly poorly written (or translated) (yellow moon, man in black in barefeet, parents guiding him into the shining void), some of which I found lovely (and repetition of simple language over over nearly ad nauseum)....and i though about the nearly hymnal approach to language....todday, it left me depressed and souad and upset (then again, Id been writing for 4 hrs this morning)....first, the entire conceit and form is absurd: why are we in this man's consciousness if he is dead, how is he, dead, able to narrate the story, and begin with such a pedestrian beginning and lead, in a crescendo of sorts, toward nothingness/heaven....how is this story told if we are already in the voice, or he is....a basic freshman writing seminar story, without understanding voice or narration or form....and why the parents?, and some of the consciousness is silly (if he is cold and dying and trapped, on a cerebral level alone, he would be thinking of some of these stupidities)...and of course, he could turn around and find the car....but, the more your reflect, there is nothing at all, form wise, that makes sense, since at the outset, we're talking about apparently a story that isn't a allegory, or parable, but a story of a man who has died and is being lead through death, and if that is the case, who wrote this, who narrates this....i think it is embarrassing that it was released...as a writer, i write lots of shit to get it out of my system and then go back and pick apart....were i friend, i would have said, write the story who gets lost in the winter and he thinks of his life and the quotidian and leave him go....this story is a perfect example of what i tell my students, do not First person voice narration unless you are certain of why you are using it....and i dont know Marc if you've read Tolstoy Master & Man, but THAT IS A MUCH MORE beautiful and important story with the same theme...and same setting (death in the snow on a journey)...ok, sorry forf the long ccomment.....bb
@@MarcNash but YOUR use of 1st person makes sense within the context of your stories....you must admit, in The Shining, it makes NO sense whatsoever....it would have been infinitely more successful (accept for all the christian icongraphy shit) in the 2nd person.....or maybe (going with the christian stuff) from the point of view of an omniscient voice or god/devil/angel watching the protagonist....here first person is absurd and calls attention to the profound failings of the story.....but i still liked a lot Septology and Melancholy ....i havent read his plays...and he seems so hard to channel Becklett but it isnt beckett's poetry of bleakness.....
the dude came back from 'the void' to narrate his own death and appears clueless the entire time to what is going on hahahahahah....its like a college student's story
I don’t think A Shining compares to The Septology in terms of style, though my own impression is skewed positive because of my love for The Septology. That said I can’t promise you that the Septology’s language will impress you. His language in those books is generally simple and scenes/images are repeated so that over the course of the cycle impressions and details accumulate. The style isn’t a matter of the words used so much as a slow building of emotional weight and understanding. As for the Septology being about an alcoholic it really isn’t. There is an alcoholic and there is drinking. There are scenes of the alcoholic drinking, having episodes, and being hospitalized but the books are not about alcoholism or the alcoholic doppelgänger. Certainly Fosse isn’t an author you have to read more of, but if you want to know I can’t see anything for it but to try the Septology
Appreciated Biran. I'm not wobbling yet, but I could be!
I thought I'd try A Shining as a taster of Fosse to help me consider whether to risk Septology. I was underwhelmed although my reaction was not as virulent as yours. For example the opening use of "nice" jarred but I presumed that was intentional to tell me the narrator was a dull man. In places I found it quite hypnotic but overall I was not excited or driven to read more by him. Fosse lovers tell me Aliss at the Fire is a more representative short work by him.
I love your short reviews/vids and I love when you go against the grain....other than when you speak about a writer whom I don't know, my fave reviews are when your unbuckle your frustration with a book--it is fabulous...im on a deadline (12 pm today), so will try to come back later, but wanted to ask (can't believe we haven't chatted) if you've read Beckett's Trilogy?...for me THE apotheosis of repetitive prose, of reduced language, or humour/angst in the English cannon...if you have NOT read it, I'm ordering immediately for you...there is no series close....it is so great, when im feeling sated or dried up with my own attempts to unbuckle language, I open it randomly....it will cleanse you too, of your reaction to fossee--like a good mouthwash.....bb
Have read Molloy, 1/2 way through Malone Dies and have the other to go (I have a collected edition of all 3). Good luck with the deadline
I read some of Scenes from a Childhood and found roughly the same problems in spots. Undercooked narratives and clumsy, overly simplistic prose. However, I’m still going to give the Septology a spin at some point.
I have being asking people this question but I am not getting any answers. At all. Please help. I have read Septology and I rather enjoyed it. Not so much the christian parts. My question is: are the other books by Fosse so full of christian parts as Septology is ?
Sorry, I can't help you as this is the only Fosse I've read.
@@MarcNash Oh, but thank you very much for taking the time to answer me. I am just finishing re-reading Robert Walser's The Robber. Highly recommended, there's a very singular and fascinating voice.
For whatever it's worth, regarding your critique of the opening and the line 'It was nice,' I'd like to point out that the original Norwegian text reads 'Det gjorde godt,' which literally means 'It did good.' I agree with you to some extent, but I'd argue the text doesn't feel as silly in its original language. E.g. the use of the word 'yes' as a sort of filler sounds weird to me in English, while this is not the case in Norwegian. I haven't read the translation so this is based off of snippets you and others have provided. Also, as a fun fact, a more literal translation of the title would be: 'Whiteness.'
The book that hooked me on Fosse, 'Melancholy,' is a far greater representation of his abilities within stream of consciousness writing. In this book you really get a sense of the character's inner state of angst and turmoil, and the repetitions add to the narrative, rather than halt it.
Perhaps A Shining is better read as a work of prose poetry. It's certainly not suspenseful. But as an allegory for death, the character's irrationality as he stumbles into the 'journey' might just leave something to think about.
Thank you Tobias, that is very illuminating and makes perfect sense to me. I may well give "Melanchoiy" a go then
@@MarcNash Glad to hear! To me it seems Fosse is easy to loose in translation, as the perceived clumsiness in his texts is actually a manner of speech in Norway, particularly the west. So it’s sort of written as would be spoken (as thought). Although don’t get me wrong, they are also quite clumsy in Norwegian haha, but I usually find it adds to my interpretation of the characters. Anyways, if you come to read it I do wish you a good reading experience :)
@@SIGAOSNES Thank you Tobias. If I do pick it up, I'll certainly review it good, bad or indifferent reading experience as it may.
@@MarcNash Indeed. I’ll be looking out for it, Mister Nash.
Aliss at the fire is better introduction. You probably won't like septology.
SEPTOLOGY is a masterpiece; A SHINING is a poor work in the same style. I didn’t care for it. It felt like if Lucy Ellmann decided to write a 50-page story in the same voice as DUCKS, NEWBURYPORT. It’s like, okay, you’ve already mastered this form in your magnum opus, so why do it again but worse?
That's an interesting compariaon thanks
yes.....exactly
"But you just can't touch a whiteness like that. Because if you did, you'd probably get it dirty." (fosse), .."I shall soon be quite dead alas despite it all" (beckett, Malone Dies).....so, I have re-reat A Shining...and I spent 30 minutes after re-reading some of Molloy and Malone Dies....these two quotes signify the profound difference between the two writers....one, often steeped in cliche and an attempt to be 'deep' or 'allegorical', the other just a truth teller...when i first read A Shining, I was on my way to London (november) and i had just finished Septology (which I had liked alot) and so I read A Shining in a very quick leap...much of it i found childish and cliche and embarrassingly poorly written (or translated) (yellow moon, man in black in barefeet, parents guiding him into the shining void), some of which I found lovely (and repetition of simple language over over nearly ad nauseum)....and i though about the nearly hymnal approach to language....todday, it left me depressed and souad and upset (then again, Id been writing for 4 hrs this morning)....first, the entire conceit and form is absurd: why are we in this man's consciousness if he is dead, how is he, dead, able to narrate the story, and begin with such a pedestrian beginning and lead, in a crescendo of sorts, toward nothingness/heaven....how is this story told if we are already in the voice, or he is....a basic freshman writing seminar story, without understanding voice or narration or form....and why the parents?, and some of the consciousness is silly (if he is cold and dying and trapped, on a cerebral level alone, he would be thinking of some of these stupidities)...and of course, he could turn around and find the car....but, the more your reflect, there is nothing at all, form wise, that makes sense, since at the outset, we're talking about apparently a story that isn't a allegory, or parable, but a story of a man who has died and is being lead through death, and if that is the case, who wrote this, who narrates this....i think it is embarrassing that it was released...as a writer, i write lots of shit to get it out of my system and then go back and pick apart....were i friend, i would have said, write the story who gets lost in the winter and he thinks of his life and the quotidian and leave him go....this story is a perfect example of what i tell my students, do not First person voice narration unless you are certain of why you are using it....and i dont know Marc if you've read Tolstoy Master & Man, but THAT IS A MUCH MORE beautiful and important story with the same theme...and same setting (death in the snow on a journey)...ok, sorry forf the long ccomment.....bb
I nearly always write 1st person 😀But then in "Death of The Author (In triplicate)" I address the question of writing in 1st/2nd/rd person voice
@@MarcNash but YOUR use of 1st person makes sense within the context of your stories....you must admit, in The Shining, it makes NO sense whatsoever....it would have been infinitely more successful (accept for all the christian icongraphy shit) in the 2nd person.....or maybe (going with the christian stuff) from the point of view of an omniscient voice or god/devil/angel watching the protagonist....here first person is absurd and calls attention to the profound failings of the story.....but i still liked a lot Septology and Melancholy ....i havent read his plays...and he seems so hard to channel Becklett but it isnt beckett's poetry of bleakness.....
the dude came back from 'the void' to narrate his own death and appears clueless the entire time to what is going on hahahahahah....its like a college student's story
@@MarcNash EXACTLY......that makes all the difference.....plus your detective and your author aren't really dead yet....as far as i can tell hahahahah
@@bluewordsme2 They're dead in a Barthes' sense