One thing that is important to recognize is that fast torpedos are very nice for ships that are more gun based. Stord '43 is a gun based ship which i built for guns but because the torpedos are so decent on itself stock, not because they are high damage (its below 10k) or specifically fast reload (like 90s) but because of their high speed. More gunboats should have torpedos that should be easier to hit, but less damage on impact in my opinion.
@@luukvst1032 I mean the thing is Stord '43 is just crazy crippled and a good example of a ship that has great survivability but not actual game impact to capitalize on survivability. I don't really think fast low damage torp, or conventional torp for that matter, will actually help it
The halland's entire "upside" is the fast torps but they often just fall flat. Her torp dpm being as low as it is just puts any thought of her being a torp boat completely out of my mind. She has very good dpm on her guns, despite maneuvering like a brick and the torps catch enemy destroyers off guard since they are so fast. These are all things Gdansk gets as well for the most part despite the worse conceal (but having a smoke and radar). To me she definitely feels like a noob trap to build into torps but realistically I think you're right in saying if you want a torp boat, just play shima or gearing.
Worst part is the Halland class wasn't exactly famous for its torps in the first place IRL. It was famous because the 12cm Bofors M50 shitting out 42 RPMs but of course instead they nerfed the guns.
When i originally played the halland with a real torpedo build it was a bit of a rough experience, but since I switched my build to be a little more hybrid it's been a lot more fun personally, you get to bully a lot of dd with the guns and just heal back a good chunk of the trade. Torpedos don't hit as hard as we'd probably want, but you still get some pretty funny salvos. Of course you could just counter with but play XYZ dd instead but I like to play a little bit of everything and this is how I made halland work for me. Let me also add that this is based on div play and I usually have friends who can actually hit things like a fat yamato that eats my torpedos for breakfast. Oddly enough the jager is actually a blast with full torpedo build (not like anything else is worthwhile) you're just so stealthy and such a nuisance
I think the issue is that Halland-style torps still have 'normal' reaction times, and don't actually reload that much faster. Your torp DPM is really bad because the reload is way more than half of other torp boats (at t9 and t10 the reload is ~90% of the reload of the USN DDs) while you do half the damage. That means you need insane hit rates to compensate, and when the torps have the same reaction time as USN torps, it just really isn't there. The higher visibility makes being 15% faster not actually 15% *better*, so the net result is you've got maybe 20-25% better 'expected torp hits per minute" between a bit more reload and a bit of speed, which doesn't make up for the damage drop I think consistency *could* make a difference, but the Halland-style torps just aren't consistent *enough* to accomplish that. The Pan-Asian DDs essentially do the concept better; deepwater torps have almost no reaction time, which gives them a real consistency edge. tl;dr I think the concept is just undercooked. Torps need to be some combo of even faster, even shorter reload, lower detectability, etc. so that they're *meaningfully* more consistent than standard torps.
I certainly wouldn't recommend the tree for new players either. I wasted my time grinding the EU DD tree and just stayed in T9 because I wasn't feeling any satisfaction, you go into a map, get out-spotted and out-gunned by any other DD, and they have more impact in the game. Even in T9 with the best possible concealment it just doesn't feel satisfactory. Shima is the way to go or gunboats.
4:24 The thing is, the Jager is a genuinely strong torpbote, especially for t9. You have the sustain, the thin hull, the concealment, the torpedo threat, and even the special commander. It is essentially a not garbage Benham that actually has good torps. Tbh, this video just seems like you don't like torpbotes in general, which is a fair perspective, given that gunbotes are inherently easier to perform in. Mechanics such as random torpedo tube HP also don't do them any favor, but maybe WG will change that by 2030.
It also suffer, but for a different reason. La Pampa being dependent on stealth and never being spotted make it 1) Super AFK and 2) Not consistent in a metagame where there are just an increasing number of detection methods. But I still don't regret getting it, its just a unique ship that has crippling overspecialization in one thing. It's like playing a T6 DD for most of the game, then when you finally gain access to the BB DLC you become a T12 DD.
Hot take to newer or average players maybe halland is memed on by most of the above average wows community because most often the torps don’t have the stopping power to kill most things with 3-4 torps on them, I once seen it took 4 of them to kill a harugumo
The base speed really kill that ship. It is better than Halland imo of course but it not the best torp boat either with only decent DPM and no smoke, as well as a gimmick that heavily incentivise putting urself in dangerous spot
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One thing that is important to recognize is that fast torpedos are very nice for ships that are more gun based. Stord '43 is a gun based ship which i built for guns but because the torpedos are so decent on itself stock, not because they are high damage (its below 10k) or specifically fast reload (like 90s) but because of their high speed. More gunboats should have torpedos that should be easier to hit, but less damage on impact in my opinion.
Of course to add to this, Småland also has this but smaland can do without the torpedos, Stord '43 cannot
@@luukvst1032 I mean the thing is Stord '43 is just crazy crippled and a good example of a ship that has great survivability but not actual game impact to capitalize on survivability. I don't really think fast low damage torp, or conventional torp for that matter, will actually help it
The halland's entire "upside" is the fast torps but they often just fall flat. Her torp dpm being as low as it is just puts any thought of her being a torp boat completely out of my mind. She has very good dpm on her guns, despite maneuvering like a brick and the torps catch enemy destroyers off guard since they are so fast. These are all things Gdansk gets as well for the most part despite the worse conceal (but having a smoke and radar). To me she definitely feels like a noob trap to build into torps but realistically I think you're right in saying if you want a torp boat, just play shima or gearing.
Also I LOVE the halland! She's my favorite ship unfortunately!
Worst part is the Halland class wasn't exactly famous for its torps in the first place IRL. It was famous because the 12cm Bofors M50 shitting out 42 RPMs but of course instead they nerfed the guns.
When i originally played the halland with a real torpedo build it was a bit of a rough experience, but since I switched my build to be a little more hybrid it's been a lot more fun personally, you get to bully a lot of dd with the guns and just heal back a good chunk of the trade. Torpedos don't hit as hard as we'd probably want, but you still get some pretty funny salvos. Of course you could just counter with but play XYZ dd instead but I like to play a little bit of everything and this is how I made halland work for me. Let me also add that this is based on div play and I usually have friends who can actually hit things like a fat yamato that eats my torpedos for breakfast. Oddly enough the jager is actually a blast with full torpedo build (not like anything else is worthwhile) you're just so stealthy and such a nuisance
I think the issue is that Halland-style torps still have 'normal' reaction times, and don't actually reload that much faster. Your torp DPM is really bad because the reload is way more than half of other torp boats (at t9 and t10 the reload is ~90% of the reload of the USN DDs) while you do half the damage. That means you need insane hit rates to compensate, and when the torps have the same reaction time as USN torps, it just really isn't there. The higher visibility makes being 15% faster not actually 15% *better*, so the net result is you've got maybe 20-25% better 'expected torp hits per minute" between a bit more reload and a bit of speed, which doesn't make up for the damage drop
I think consistency *could* make a difference, but the Halland-style torps just aren't consistent *enough* to accomplish that. The Pan-Asian DDs essentially do the concept better; deepwater torps have almost no reaction time, which gives them a real consistency edge.
tl;dr I think the concept is just undercooked. Torps need to be some combo of even faster, even shorter reload, lower detectability, etc. so that they're *meaningfully* more consistent than standard torps.
The "Halland Concept" is death by 1Thousand Cuts
Either for the "Halland" or for the enemy team
People think the big number in the top right equates to battle impact. They farm many targets, ignore priority targets and just buff the enemies A/R.
Exactly : the Halland works for idiots, against idiots.
The halland is fine… besides the Hallands primary role isn’t a torp DD. It’s an AA DD. It’s a floating no fly zone
I certainly wouldn't recommend the tree for new players either. I wasted my time grinding the EU DD tree and just stayed in T9 because I wasn't feeling any satisfaction, you go into a map, get out-spotted and out-gunned by any other DD, and they have more impact in the game. Even in T9 with the best possible concealment it just doesn't feel satisfactory.
Shima is the way to go or gunboats.
4:24 The thing is, the Jager is a genuinely strong torpbote, especially for t9. You have the sustain, the thin hull, the concealment, the torpedo threat, and even the special commander. It is essentially a not garbage Benham that actually has good torps. Tbh, this video just seems like you don't like torpbotes in general, which is a fair perspective, given that gunbotes are inherently easier to perform in. Mechanics such as random torpedo tube HP also don't do them any favor, but maybe WG will change that by 2030.
Halland line if it's in need of any buff then it's to buff it's torp alpha or guns alpha but well WG so...
Another day another penguin yap sesh LFG!!
Whate are your thoughts about La Pampa the new tX pan American DD? Anyway agree with you bro ❤
It also suffer, but for a different reason. La Pampa being dependent on stealth and never being spotted make it 1) Super AFK and 2) Not consistent in a metagame where there are just an increasing number of detection methods.
But I still don't regret getting it, its just a unique ship that has crippling overspecialization in one thing. It's like playing a T6 DD for most of the game, then when you finally gain access to the BB DLC you become a T12 DD.
Hot take to newer or average players maybe halland is memed on by most of the above average wows community because most often the torps don’t have the stopping power to kill most things with 3-4 torps on them, I once seen it took 4 of them to kill a harugumo
Thoughts on cassard?
The base speed really kill that ship. It is better than Halland imo of course but it not the best torp boat either with only decent DPM and no smoke, as well as a gimmick that heavily incentivise putting urself in dangerous spot
yes, i also hate jager
why do people like it ?
Hard to die and hitting 0 torp > hitting 4 torps