Is this the ultimate mobile climbing setup?
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- Опубликовано: 30 июл 2018
- I'm using the climbing stick version. The WE SteppLadder version is too risky and I don't recommend it.
Check out Peter's video demonstrating the KNaider/SWaider setup:
• Knaider tutorial
This might be the ultimate public land legal climbing method for run-n-gun mobile hunters. If you hunt with a tree saddle this method might work for you.
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You can get a full saddle hunting setup from Tethrd.
Learn more about saddle hunting at SaddleHunter.com
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I may have tried that a few yrs ago but at nearly 71 I will set on a stool backed into a bush.
silverback802 hahaa I don’t blame you
This is so creative. My clumsy self would be tripping over all of the webbing, but I love the ingenuity.
Wow, that was really cool using knayder & swayder system. Very cool way 2 climb a tree. Thx 4 sharing on the internet 4 us newbies. Keep on hunting.
That’s very cool but I would never do that in the dark. Going up is one thing but down in the dark when cold and a bit stiff from sitting for hours would be a challenge to say the least. Too risky for me.
But I do appreciate the ingenuity
Awesome video Greg!
Gert job on the video sir, I just earned about this method tonight on the forum you mentioned in the video. thanks for sharing and have a blessed week.
dale
You got it. Try it out.
Hey Tarzan, seems like tree swinging is a different sport. I shoot my 2 allotted bucks and 4 does every year right from the ground.
Great video. I will try this. Thanks Ontario
I loved the idea and made a set to use with my lone wolf sticks. Found it to be very tricky and downright scary to climb down in the dark. I felt confident in the swaider but it can be hard to hook the knaider in the loop and I didn't feel that open hook was safe. I'd consider another caribiner there to ensure you stay connected. Keep in mind you may be wearing extra clothes as well. It does work but I've decided to scrap the idea.
I'd like to see video of someone doing all of this in the dark with just a green light headlamp to see...
I've done it many times. I went away from this system because I think it's too fiddly, but it definitely works.
G2 Outdoors what about just the knaider so you would basically get a single step between all your sticks?
@@G2Outdoors fiddly was definitely the word I was looking for..
I'm looking to build thesea asap. Do you have a parts list and video on how to make these?
What type of rope and length is recommended to tie onto the climbing sticks? Great video
How do you keep your feet from slipping off the tree when going up or down? That looks like a pendulum waiting to happen.
I like the 2ft nylon loop that hangs down and provides an extra step to each climbing stick. This method gets me an additional 6-8ft up the tree and weighs next to nothing.
Yeah that's a great option as well.
What are you using for a loop of rope for girth hitch? Where did you get it?
I would just wait for the new 2019 Lone Wolf sticks. They were showcased at the 2019 ATA and for the same weight with a aider or two you would easily get to a good hunt height. I do like the Yankee ingenuity of the Knaider and Swaider - cool concept.
I must say G2 Outdoors' videos are pretty cool!
where can you get the two or how to make them?
What size are your continuous loops you are using on the lone wolf steps? 8" or 15" continuous loop? And what size amsteel rope are you using in the video as well?
I think this might be the right choice for me. Doing a lot of long hikes on public lands the weight savings will be nice.
Awesome. Check out saddlehunter.com for more info.
I've been lurking in the forums for a couple years now trying to find a climbing method that showed the most bang for buck while being able to run and Gun. I think this method with the sticks is going to be it. Looks light, reliable, and sturdy. Just need to splice my bridge, thanks to your tutorial, and I might finally make the full switch from climber to saddle this year.
There's a give and take with every system. The key is trying it with an open mind to see if it will work for your setup.
@@G2Outdoorsit’s funny watching you promote a company that you later tied suing out of business lol.
@@chrispeterson1247 I've never sued anyone...person or company...in my entire life. Fake news.
W.e. steps are awesome!
I gotta try this
For public land without spurs...I think the Kn/Sw with WE stepps is the way to go.
Were can I order a knaider and swaider???
This is beautiful.
Thx!
Are you using ropeman 2's?!??!
could you do a video on how to make that thing your using to climb
Yup. I sure will.
Can you do a video comparing this method with simple extension loops?
I feel like this is getting about the same effect with more work but I don't have the experience to know for sure.
I may do both and make a video myself. It's a race lol
Yup. It's on the short list.
I would girth hitch a line around the tree instead of the lineman’s strap.
I will ty and get back to u have to get parts for the hip part
Give it a whirl!
Curious how many still use this system. I’m 99% certain I’m going to one stick this fall
This is a great method...for people whole like to climb trees for fun.
That's cool, but let's see a video shot when it's 15 degrees out, in the dark.
How you gonna see that?
Do you feel like this method exceeds using sticks paired with a climbing aider? Do you think you can carry in one less stick to get to the same height with the swaider and naider method?
I go back and forth on this one. I've returned to my tried and true climbing aider. This method works, but there's a lot of fiddling around.
how do you do all this and not sweat? especially if its cold out. I usually climb then haul up my coat and bibs and put them on once i cool off if im using a stand. I dont see how to do that while wearing a saddle
There's no way to do anything without sweating where I hunt. That's why I want to carry gear that is as light as possible.
That would go good with my lone wolf sticks. Maybe I can get a set of those stepladders next summer. Waiting till February to order my mantis.
So where can you buy the knaider/swaider? Cannot not find any links anywhere.
They're not for sale. You'd have to DIY it or reach out to someone who can sew to make them for you. I doubt they'll ever be commercially available.
Why do you say that the WE version is too risky?
Can you make me one to buy?!
67 yo and the trade off between weight of my climber vs this has me heading to big box store. Have to try because the walk-in and my carry in crap are begging for any reduction I can gain. Not complicated and not dangerous. Clever
THere you go. Give it a try!
Any chance you could provide a materials list with links?
Sure thing. I'll add it to the description. Good call!
good video
Approximately how high can you get with the knaider and swaider on 3 muddy pros?
Joel Weaver I'm short... 5'7" and I get about 7' per Muddy stick. Taller guys can get more.
G2 Outdoors Thanks Greg!
Hey G2 from your experience what is more comfortable for all day sits...the kestrel or the mantis?
They'll both be comfortable once you get used to saddle hunting. I would say both would be difficult to do an all day sit right out of the box. It takes some getting used to for sure.
@@G2Outdoors thats what ive been hearing...thanks man
Wow, your vids are way better than mine :) The only thing I would add is that the lineman belt provides some key benefits. First is the obvious, safety. But the second is its ability to take weight off your legs and provide stability when you climb. The one thing you should do is lean back more when you are climbing and descending. Trust the lineman to do its job and support you. Leaning back against the belt will take a lot of load off your legs and totally free up all of the load on your arms. You have to get the length right, but the benefits are significant. I see slack in your lineman belt at times when you are moving up and down, so you had to use a bit of arm strength and additional leg strength as part of your move. Not a big deal, but it really does help quite a bit. I will stress though, you have to have faith in your belt to do its job. It took me a bit to completely trust it. Pete
lol - your video is awesome! That's why I linked to it. I think you did a better job of demonstrating the climb...I just talk a lot more lol. I don't know how to shut up!!!! Regarding the LB, all good comments. I'm still learning this system. When I made the video, it was only my 4th or 5th time climbing with the system. I'll get better the more I use it. Thanks for the ideas!!!!
You're still a dang genius lol
Respectfully, thats completely not true about leaning farther back into your harness making it easier on your body when climbing... It makes it harder, as a former tower climber we're actually trained to posture inward towards the structure @ 90 degrees and close to what we're climbing... I learned this the hardway and can personally attest to the fatigue/soreness being drastically reduced when my old foreman first pointed it out to me
What size amsteel rope do use and what was the total length used for each loop?
1/4" Amsteel. I want to say I started with about 3' of rope to get a finished length of 16" or so.
I take it you spliced the continuous loop yourself? Is there a good tutorial on how to do that?
Do you prefer climbing sticks or the wild edge steps? I'm on the fence about getting a saddle, currently torn between the steps or sticks. Any input is appreciated!
leelatt honestly I think I'm leaning towards the WE Stepps. They're easy to install, very light, and very packable.
+1 for the very speedy reply! Do you have a review video of them yet by any chance?
leelatt not yet. I need to do one.
Sounds good, can't wait to see another awesome video!
Take your taider, swing your elbow around the zaider, lock the graider into the praider next to the kaider.
any link to a video about safely sewing webbing? I'm not the most talented seamstress.
lol...there are a LOT of videos on here. That's how I learned. I'd watch a YT video then go practice. It took some practice for sure. But now I'm a pro at Thread Injecting (I don't sew) and make all kinds of DIY gear and save a lot of money.
I am a bowhunter, not rock climber, the little I know is: 1) get webbing rated for climbing, any webbing will not do. REI sells it. Wesspur also sells it. 2) Sewing, use super heavy twine, not thread. Buy a speedy stitcher (they are inexpensive, Amazon etc.) with the provided twine and needles. RUclips has videos on how to use it, it's easy to sew thick heavy stuff. Finish your knots per the video. I also am no seamstress, I sewed webbing to make straps for the lower and upper end of my climbing spurs, they work great and are so light, quiet, and easy to put on and take off. Each stitch is locked (see video). I sewed about 7/8" x 7/8" square on 1" webbing with an "X" across the square to secure my webbing. Test it with your webbing. sew a simple loop with the X-square. Hang the webbing from a tree limb or something (a waterknot works well in webbing for this). put some climbing rope with a hook to the webbing keep adding weight. Bags of salt/sand whatever. Add until the weight is 3X your weight. Still holding, your done. As the naider and sweider are not designed for arresting you from a fall, just static weight. I hope that helps. Many of the extra heavy duty ratchet straps ( not the cheepies) have the same hook he used on the naider. Weight test before using for sure. Once weight tested just sew your naider and sweider the same way with about the same stitch spacing. PS. the X-square requires you to sew one side twice. Draw a X-square with paper and pencil without lifting the pencil and you will see what I mean.
I Love the forward thinking! Getting to hunting height with less is a big deal to me. Thanks for sharing!!
You got it! Glad you found the video.
I don't see the link to saddlehunter.com and the invention of the naider.
Dang. I need to get that updated. Thanks for the heads up.
Hey Greg - In the video you say the WildEdge Stepps are 'rocksolid.' In the description, you now say they are 'too risky.' Why did you change your mind? I use WE's now, and I like them, so I'd like to know what your concerns are. @G2 Outdoors
I had them slip on me after the video. If not for my lineman belt I would have been in trouble. Big trouble. I would say they have too much fiddle factor compared to a traditional stick. If you use them the way they are intended to be used...1 stepp at a time...they're MUCH better. When I used them with extra stuff hanging off, they were an accident waiting to happen.
I have found it very easy to just use 9’ Amsteel ropes - set the step and use the left over ‘tail’ that is hanging to make another hanging loop using the same WE knot.
Set 2 steps at first grab the top one step in the loop and up you go. Just under 4‘ per step and easy in the dark up or down. 3 points of contact minimum. Good for an old bloke like me anyway.
Good method, however setting up in the dark or w/ late season clothing on will b difficult & unsafe
I don't know how I could do any of that with hunting bibs and hunting pacs on.Doesnt seem very practical 🤔.
Definitely takes practice. It's not for everyone for sure.
How high can you get with the 4 muddy sticks?
James Marshall I'm short... 5'7" and I get about 7' per Muddy stick. Taller guys can get more.
Too dangerous for me in the dark
Thanks for the video. Did I miss the window? Using "G2OUTDOORS" didn't result in a discount at wildedgeinc.
This is cool but I feel like its a little too much to perform in the woods, my Lonewolf stand is 17lbs with the climbing sticks attached and goes up in any tree in under 10 min.
This climbing method definitely isn't for everyone. But are you sure on your math? The LW Assault is listed at 11 lbs without straps/buckles or a safety harness. 3 LW climbing sticks weigh 7.5 without buckles. I think you're kit is more like 18-20 lbs. My Saddle setup w/climbing method and aiders is about 9-10 lbs.
exactly!
45 ropes, carabiners, hooks, swaiders, naiders, vaiders !!! 🤦♂️
Full Draw Tactical Darth Vader
You did a great job explaining this. I dont think this is for me. Personally, some nails and screws and a few boards or a decent tree in the woods made great ladders.
Awesome. On public land those things are illegal, so this might be an option for someone who hunts public.
Gregg, I may have just had an awesome idea watching this KNaider/SWaider method that would save time/weight by eliminating the edge steps ....
What if you had a rope with a loops tied at each end. You put the rope around the tree and put one loop through the other. It would noose the tree and allow a free hanging loop. I think a 5-6' piece would be perfect. You could either use multiple ropes and leave them as you clime or you may be able to get away with only two if the bottom one is taken to the top as you go. Kinda thinking out loud haha.
I've been watching a lot of your videos and the thought of hunting new public spots because of a lighter setup has me excited to try a saddle!
Would probably be harder on your knees as the edge steps do get the KNaider away from the tree.
Give it a try! You never know. That's how innovation happens.
I think the one stick is the lightest way to climb. One stick, one step aider and your tether is it. About 4 lbs to go as high as you want
You're saying that with saddle hunting reduces bulk. I've got to lose 70# of bulk 1st. Lol! I must try this lightweight system, I'm tired of carrying stand & sticks.
lolol..a saddle will get you started down the right path!!
Cool idea but the juice just doesn't seem worth the squeeze. I can get up a tree with very little gear but it's just not worth the extra effort when 4 full length sticks with 1 step aiders on each only weight 8-10# more than the lightest climbing methods. That being said, I might be open to other methods if I were hiking in more than 3 miles.
where did you get that shirt?
Probably saddlehunter.com
For once I am almost speechless!
This the the craziest thing I ever saw!
I install the same steps with only a lineman’s belt 90% faster and also safer because the only thing I have to focus on is my belt and not all that madness you have going on.
You drank the kool aid!
lol. What works for some, doesn't work for others. Nothing wrong with just using the sticks if you're comfortable hunting lower, or carrying a lot more weight and bulk. This method (or similar methods) allow you to carry less sticks, less weight, and get higher. It all depends on what's important to you. Minimal weight and bulk are what's important to me. When you take your time, practice in advance, and are very deliberate in your movements, there is nothing unsafe about this. If you go out without every trying it before, try to climb fast, and don't pay attention to what you're doing, this would be very unsafe.
Too complicated for simple lazy men.. lol 😆
This does look worth considering but I do want to ask how many sticks/steps are really eliminated in this method assuming I go the the same height?
I used to carry 5 muddy sticks to get over 20 feet. Now I need 3. To me that's significant.
G2 Outdoors thanks that’s definitely a big difference.
Wow. Where is the video on how to make these!
BloodStained Outdoors coming soon.
G2 Outdoors. I'm ready for that. Thanks Greg - I always get a ton out of your videos.
Looking forward to this video as well
Ok, so I've been watching all the tree saddle videos, and I think I'm sold! Going to order me a tetherd mantis tommorow!
Nice! You're gonna love it.
G2 Outdoors u guys aren't backordered are u? Also I can't find where to order the backrest thing that u lean against.
We're expecting delivery in 3-4 weeks. The back support is called the Mantis Recliner
G2 Outdoors ok. I can't find it to order it. I'll look again. So if I order everything today I should have it by Sept. 15?
Ok. I found it..just ordered it all, wondering if the sys hauler will hold both the linesman belt and the teather?
Do you find this easier than just using a 2 step aider?
It's probably about the same. However, with this system you reduce the bulk and the weight of having multiple 2 stick aiders on each stick/stepp. It's not a huge weight/bulk savings, but if you're an ounce counter like me, it adds up. The other benefit is you don't have the aiders hanging off your sticks. I've had deer see them and spook. That's one of the reasons I wanted to eliminate the aiders on each stick.
I can understand that. I have a extension on mine so that they attach to the top of the stick. I only use one and move it up as I go.
I agree with Sunspot. I have a single, 3-step etrier that I just move up and attach to the next stick/step as I climb. However, one thing that looks good about the knaider/swaider method is that the loop stays connected to your boot vs. having to work your boot into the etrier on the way down in the dark.
There are definitely pros and cons of each setup. I use them all depending on the circumstances.
Are these strictly DIY or can we get these made from Peter?
ctrick13 strictly DIY
As of now...strictly DIY.
No company would ever assume the liability of selling something like this
Thank you.
To complicated.
Not for me.
Too*
I could do this at the beginning of a hunt in nice weather and in the light. Coming down in the dark in the rain after sitting in the cold for hours and feeling frustrated/tired? No. I now my limits.
Two mod'd climbing sticks with platform and saddle
yeah, that could be good.
To cumbersome for me but very interesting. I really like the think tank at saddle hunter.
Don't knock it until you try it. lol. It's actually pretty simple once you get the hang of it. I seem to always make things look more complicated than they really are. You should join the "think tank" if you haven't already!
G2 Outdoors - I am part of saddle hunter , im always checking in to see whats going on. I am using 10 cranford rope steps ( for ease of packing with 5 Ameristeps with Ernies OCB buckle idea for my saddle run and gun.... works great !
SWEET!!!!
And just like that, ladies and gentlemen. In 4 short hrs, you to can be 25 ft in a tree. By the way, don't forget your back pack and bow.
You look like my apprentice when he climbs
He must be a total stud. Thanks for noticing 🙂
Sometimes people forget that hunting is what we’re trying too do.
Looks very cumbersome. A climber is Soo much easier and faster!
It's not really all that slow in real time. The biggest difference is your climber is bulky as all get out and his saddle and climbing method is like 10 pounds and super compact.
Lots of us don’t have trees that climbers will climb. I would lose 85% of my tree options if I climbed with a climber thanks to all the limbs on the post oaks, blackjack oaks, junipers and such. With the Wild Edge Stepps, or climbing sticks, I can easily climb a gnarly limby tree. With the Knaider and Swaider, I can do it at 5lbs. Add in the 2ish pounds for my saddle and ropes, and my weight and bulk is a HUGE improvement over lugging a climber. PLUS the now near infinite number of trees I can climb i would have missed out on with a climber.
Guys that have switched to saddle hunting would say a climber is much more cumbersome. A climber is more comfortable but you are really limited in your tree selection and you have to carry that 25 lb hunk of metal through the woods. A Wild Edge stepp system with a Knaider/Swaider is about 5 lbs and fits in a small back pack. That's a pretty significant weight/bulk reduction. But there is no "right way" to climb. In this video I simply wanted to demonstrate a method that might work for some guys. Good luck this season!
G2 Outdoors lonewolf is 14#!
Mr. Skeptical the Tethrd Mantis saddle is 15 ounces!!!!
Why DIY when there is so much safe, efficient, proven, tested and certified gear out there for climbing/aid climbing/rope access/arborists that could be put to good use?
I guess if your hunting in the park or your back yard, with all day to set up, and a check list for all the pieces that go here and that there, the have your handy dandy instruction manual with LED lighting with the solar charged battery pack so you can get a good visual with the night vision, then and only then can you start to get this massive rig started fastening to the harness and head out to the woods.. Does this set up come with a trailer or cart to haul it out there??
I have been looking at a new way of keeping ppl stealing stands from State public property thanks for info 👍
Hell no
I’m not sure about that one.
why not use the lone wolf hook on both vs the biner on the longer strap? Seems like it would be easier to hook in and make less noise.
That's a good idea. I hadn't thought of that! I'll give it a try.
I originally used a hook. It works, and with the bungee it even flips over nicely and stays on the wrung. However, with a longer aider I was concerned about about slack in the line at some point and having the hook popping off. The minor (very minor) inconvenience of the carabiner was a worthwhile sacrifice in order to add a lot of added safety. I always remind myself that these systems have to be used in the dark, when I'm tired, cold and have lots of clothes and gear on me.
Do you have a link to where I can get the KNaider/Swaider?
It's only a DIY solution. No one makes these that I know of.
G2 Outdoors I love this idea. Last year I used a climber that my grandpa gave me. And really heavy old man stand that is the original (30lb or so). For public land hunting it was a pain to carry a mile. This year I have a hang on stand and I also have a saddle stand that he had as well. I was planning on using a set of buck steps but I’m liking this way more. Also what about the primal tree steps by sportsman guide. They looks exactly the same but a quarter of the price.
I use genuine wild edge stepps.
Then who invented the Grater? I just use SRT and a throw line. It weighs nothing and can get me to any height.
Lots of guys use SRT. I'm not very good at it and suck at it in the dark even more.
God forbid if you should slip off that step! Knees don’t bend well sideways.
Lord you need some sun on those white legs!!! Lol
Thanks for noticing :)
Looks like a pain, ill stick with my climber
I would have been up the tree, killed a Booner, field dressed it out, drove to the taxidermist and got the full body mount back by the time you get up the tree and untangled enough to begin to hunt.
Lol. Good luck with that. Shoot a booner!
@@G2Outdoors 😁
How can I purchase this products
SRT, no sticks or steps needed
Good video / shows me I don’t want anything to do with this method - I would rather continue to hump sticks in and out / sounds like these guys have been watching too much Darth Vader
You never know until you try :) No way I'd hump in 5 sticks anymore. Not a chance.
no way
Hunting or tree climbing pro?
Trying to help out those interested in ultralight climbing methods. This method is not for everyone.
Haha haha!
Nope I'll stick with my Summit...
You get a cramp ur so screwed lol
hahaha ....meanwhile you will be bottom side up with all the rope and hooks .......just carry your light weight climbing sticks it faster and safer
Nah. It's easy if you have an open mind and a positive attitude.
Way too complicated. How are you supposed to wear that stuff with hunting clothes?
you practice in advance, you take your time, and you pay attention to what you're doing. It's easy.
K
Not worth the few extra pounds you save