Electra Cable Tube Connectors provided by GR Research (quick review)
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- Опубликовано: 16 окт 2015
- Ron from www.newrecordday checks out Tube Connector's. If a cable makes a difference in the quality of hifi, what about a speaker plate? Ron takes us through some brief observations and weighs in on the matter! Check it.
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What about the binding posts on the receiver end?
Yes i agree? Your saying that only one end is making a different? Thanks. I get it as well also. For the one pulling out as much performance as possible and i am sure they have the test results with some nice testing equipment to show us the difference between normal and these tube connectors.
Also, the speaker relays have very minimal contact area.
Should have blindfolded your brother and not told him when you were using the tubes and when the normal connectors. Though it is interesting that you described the differences similarly...
Good point, I agree.
+TheTrickfilmmaker I agree here. A blind A/B comparison would have been more useful.
@@phantasm1004 Because that's how you listen to music? Why not stand on your head as well? Your assumption then is if you hear a difference ' blind ' then you'll hear it 'sighted'? When auditioning speakers, (assuming you do) do you have the salesperson apply a blindfold? You should review audio gear exactly as you normally listen to your system, otherwise there's no point.
@@carlosoliveira-rc2xt Personally I DO listen in complete darkness. Try it if possible
@@carlosoliveira-rc2xt LMAO...Blind means not "knowing" which is playing to remove possible human bias when comparing 2 items that SHOULD have a very similar sound. Speakers usually have FAR more obvious differences that are readily heard, even on a quick listen. Therefore listening blind is for most intents, not necessary.
Thanks for the great videos!! Could you please tell me what the finish is on the speakers. I will be buying the kit, and the flat pack cabinet kit from Andy. Thanks!
What if I replace all the ferrous parts in the link with all non ferrous? I tested my speaker connections with a rare earth magnet, though the binding posts are brass, the nuts and washers are magnetic.
Thank you for the video!
I do have a question.
If I were to upgrade to tube connectors I would just buy speaker cable with one end connecting to my receiver via banana plug and the other end with the tube connectors?
Correct! Bananas can easily work with tube connectors.
What type of solder should be used?
So if it's that hard to tell the difference for subtle detail then is there really any point? Unless you go all the way and replace the crossover aswell.
Because just a couple of little things, add up to be a large difference. Kind of an obvious answer but you did ask the question.
I believe that you should have someone subject you to a true "double blind" test of tube connectors
Electrical connection, for all intents and purposes. The drivers cannot behave differently by the type of connection on the same cable and hardware behind it .
One thing that every cable manufacturer agreed upon is that the connectors we use today, is the worst kind of connectors to use, so nice to see a try on changing them. :-)
Yep this is my sentiment. At least he put actual engineering thought into these
@@dilbyjones Yes you are right, but then do I also have to say that engineers "knows" that there can't be any difference, that cables is cables. But I can also in a way proof that no human being can see the color yellow, it's physical impossible and still do most of us see that color. You have red, blue and green cones in your eyes, so you have no way to detect anything then these three colors or a combination there off. :-)
@@friedmule5403
An engineer/physicist knows nothing of the sort.
It's simple; everything matters.
The complexity lies in the area of does it matter enough to pursue.
Be it a loudspeaker or a widget, the engineering of bringing a product to market, focuses on increasing the product's value by attention to significant perceptible attributes, while discounting the attributes whose value isn't warranted by its perception.
@@friedmule5403 also known as primary colors
The contact area within these tube connectors properly soldered is the key to why these work better than other connections. Say what you will, these work well. Some will be naysayers and let them rant. Performance matters in audio as it does in other things. It brings on more pleasure if you go the extra mile and do what is necessary to get all you can out of your gear.
Some people require proper listening tests and comparisons, to verify if one is hearing a true change, or an expected change. That is not called a naysayer, but simply one that is aware of human biases and expectations.
Nowhere have I seen mention of the standard connectors , their material or design . A comparison against an unknown . I have heard differences in cables, power cords , vacuum tubes , other things so I am not saying differences don't exist .
What he is describing is same affect of having OCC cable. There is more separation and higher ceiling and bass is deeper. It's a more quality presentation.
Having a big metal fastener at the back of the binding terminal is bad.
When that same fastener remains connected inside the speaker, so you may do a quick comparison, is NOT bad
OK.
Wow Ron, Avenger?? Lucky Dog!
+WinthropPC Ha! So my sleight of hand worked on someone!
+New Record Day Elephant in the room! Can't wait for that review!
The soundstage gets expanded.
You should have done this blind. Knowing which connection you were listening too affects your perception.
How is the speaker cable terminated? Bananas? My cables came terminated with spades.
not to be a pedantic but I feel it's expectation bias
Could be, I'm not bold enough to pick a fight about it.
Wise answer
@@tharinduweerasekara5360 I like this short thread you two did make. I have a strange question:-)
Lets say it's all pure fantasy, but does that matter? I mean, if it makes an audiophile think he can here better sound if he put a piece of chewing gum under his chair. Isn't that okay and if that make the audiophile happier in his passion, even if it can be demonstrated it make no change or maybe even destroys the sound? :-)
a double blind test would be better ...
@@friedmule5403 There was one guy who claimed his equipment sounded better if he bent all capacitors on the circuit board so they were straight up. (!)
You should also, while blindfolded, said you switched but in reality you kept it the same. See if it is not just a brain trick... The WBT 0703-Cu and Furutech FT-865 are similar to the tube. Just low mass connectors
The tube connectors are made quite differently and the improvement is clarity of the tube connectors really set them apart.
@@dannyrichie9743 You know what Danny? I believe you because of your years of expertise and I do follow your videos for quite some time now. Very nice work you're doing! I would be more than willing to compare them to what I already own, I'm quite curious now...!
Blind test needed
Even if no difference is heard . Knowing your signal is not passing threw a lump of metal ticks a box. my speakers are a straight soldered and sheilded no connectors at all .
save yourself 50$, solder new long wire to the speakers and drill a hole small enough to friction fit. Seal with silicone. Done
Exactly.
I think I found the person that doesn't tip at a restaurant.
Where is a blind or even double-blind A/B test?
Show me the numbers via a calibrated mic. Otherwise, this test is anecdotal.
One's ears have the final say but let's look at this first scientifically.
That’s fair. No argument here.
Numbers can be completely meaningless, especially if you are measuring the wrong numbers. Take a paper cone and compare it to a aluminum cone. They might have the exact same TS parameters, and may even have the exact same frequency response, so in the scientific world they should sound identical but they don't. The trick is in not knowing what you are listening to. He shouldn't have told his brother what was changed, and then do your A-B testing. Even knowing what is changed can create expectations.
@@DodgyBrothersEngineering , if two drivers sound different, it must be different in measurements, unless the sensitivity of the tool is not high enough or the person who is incorrectly measured them.
If your a well experience recording engineer the the things Danny mentions make sense and ost upgrades discussed are already standard in the real of hi end studio gear. Why wouldn't any one want a low mass high purity copper connector that makes a better more solid connection. A signal path is like a chain so you can't have weak links as they all depend on each other.
Placebo effect? I've tried different cables... couldn't hear a difference. Different crossover components... couldn't hear a difference. Maybe it's my ears but $200 to upgrade crossover plus tube connectors would make no sense. Same goes for cables. The middle of the range speaker cable I use now is no better than super cheap hookup wire.
Yes, your ears are crap. Don't waste your money.
Yeah, I know about these connectors. But you're using a banana connector designed with the speaker female end as a system and comparing it to a relatively cheap binding post. How about comparing it to a binding post from WBT, Edison Price, Cardas, or some other high quality binding post. And use something like a WBT copper or solid silver expanding connector, or high quality spade on the speaker cable tightly connected to the post? I also know that Naim Audio has done quite a bit of research and testing on this subject that would disagree with Danny's favored approach. One more thing, when you crimp the tube connector on to the wire it will pull away from the end of the cap. And how does the proximity of the speaker wire and the speakers internal wire really matter? How about this, install a high quality binding post on the speakers and make a couple of other pairs of the same speaker cable , same length but use a high quality spade made of copper, silver and the other cable with expandable banana posts That would be a fair test. Just some thoughts on the subject.
Yes, but all those expensive brands you quoted are just that, expensive. And you can always allow a bit of length to compensate for crimping.
@@freenational Well I notice that you have addressed nothing else but price of connectors. I will not rehash all my points but you will have to install male Tube connectors on any set of speaker cables that you have plus if you want to compare different cables, then what? All of the other binding posts do not have that issue. Danny seems to think that these ( Tube C's ) are better than all of the others, and that's fine. I personally do not know and know of anybody else using these connectors in their products or individuals who have tried them. I think that the idea here is having fun in this hobby and if you are a DIY kind of person, that's great. I am or used to be. Hell, I have already talked to him about updates he has for my speakers. But I'm getting older and the idea of pulling apart my speakers is something I loath to do anymore. Anyhoo, I've liked watching Ron Frenay' videos since the first one that I've seen; the Dynavector ML cartridge he reviewed and agreed with one hundred percent.
Speaking of cartridges, if you haven't yet Ron, checkout that $750.00 Hana Low output model. A fantastic cartridge. Personally I'm done spending two, three thousand on cartridges and will pick one of those up next time. Frankly it does everything I want for not an inordinate amount of money.
I would not have the confidence to crack open one of my expensive speakers to install these
+nerdglider or would I
+nerdglider I wouldn't either. I would consider buying them if I was building from scratch.
***** oh yeah I think if I was doing a pair of fostex or rogers clone boxes I would not consider binding posts just based on how clean these look on the back :)
You may not have to. Just remove the existing binding post and enlarge the hole for the socket to insert into and you can switch back if you need to trade it in for something else.
do a blind test
It would be so subtle, that it actually doesn’t matter
It may have been subtle on Jon's system, but on a higher level system the difference can by very significant.
You will never see a true double blind A/B test because it will show that these aren't worth $50 a pair. Just solder your speaker wire directly to the crossover and save a $100.
Just wire cabling direct to the crossover and be done with it.
Then you can never remove the cables from the speakers.
Danny Richie, sure, but it’s an easy solution. Cost effective. And you can purchase a second set of cables for the price difference if required.
The best connector is no connector.
The best connection indeed is no connection.
But the cost for a decent set of cables like I use in my system can be a little more pricey.
Danny Richie sure, but your system is not representative of what the average music lover/DIYer has, and listens to music on.
I appreciate that for systems that are highly optimised, mods such as these could be beneficial.
But for the average DIYer, I don’t feel this mod is going to provide meaningful gains.
But I get it, you love them.
I can understand that you are basing your opinion on how you feel, and having never heard the difference for yourself.
Mine is base on a ton of experience using tube connectors in a LOT of applications. I have yet to hear a situation where they do not make a difference, and an improvement.
Ron and his brother John were trying them out on a kit that we offer for $249. And the difference and the improvement is quite clear.
So a nice improvement and for about half the cost of a good set of binding posts and spade connectors? You bet!
Are you still using these and do you still recommend them after a few years? My grip is they look so cheap and ugly. Not that I'm going to be looking at them but just knoing they're there looking like that. For that price I would expect something that looks alittle more "audiophile grade" whatever that means.
Hehe, if you think swapping out those industry standard connectors for tube connectors makes a difference. I don't disagree that tube conectors make a difference btw. However, why not get rid of those high mass inductors and speaker heavy gauge speaker cable too? Does Danny ever realize he's going down the list of reasons in his videos why active crossovers with power amps attached directly to the speaker is superior to passive speakers? If you have a problem with the mass of those general binding posts imagine how much better it's going to sound without those inductors in the crossover and 12 gauge speaker cables? Of course this is over looking the variance in parts values, the values of components varying as they warm up, and of course the shift in crossover points as the voice coils heat up.
oy vey
If anybody really thinks this makes an audible difference then you deserve to get swindled. Transformers, components and component values in the signal path, and speakers. Thats it. In other words your amplifier, and your speakers. Swapping your plugs isnt going to do anything unless you have an existing issue with your current jacks. Same with guitar amps. Next thing you know its gonna be Lead core vs Rosin core solder. Flux vs no flux. Give me a break.
Just wire your cables directly onto the speakers crossover.
This is what I was thinking and what about the connectors on the amp! hard wired both ends
I was about to post this exact same comment. If a difference of 0.0001% is that important to someone, then remove the problem at the source and hardwire it. It's a minor inconvenience, but it's also free!
@@dockettome, some folks play with different cables for the sound effects.
complete voodoo, unsubscribed.
Later.
+vnitto Probably a wise decision on your closed-minded part. Easy for you to say it's complete voodoo, given that you were not there and didn't listen.
+phantasm1004 I Don't believe in ghosts either.
@@phantasm1004 we didn't need to be there to know that the laws of physics weren't broken that day
If your belief is that everything is just the same , your ability to hear differences is filtered by your belief system . Also an expectation bias . Works both ways .
The only realy way to Test if its different, is a A-B Test without Pause. A Guy at my local Store want to sell me special ,,Chinch Connectors,, , who filter the Error Currents on not used Chinch Outputs.
Everyone make his own Experience what Eququiment make a Difference. But for me i would never spend Money in such ,,Special-Things,,.
100% expectation bias. There is absolutely ZERO chance that these make an audible difference