VERY IMPORTANT! Some TPI models are seizing at low hours due to not using enough oil. We also have much more up-to-date information now. See our video here: ruclips.net/video/sExzuIUgFb0/видео.html TPI SPLUTTERING? Try turning your power valve out. It may mean a bigger power hit early than you want but it can be a very simple fix. Hopefully you won't need to do this in future editions. NOT IDLING CORRECTLY? Try turning out your air screw out and see if this fixes it. In some cases two to three turns out... DON'T TOUCH THE THROTTLE WHEN STARTING (& WARMING UP): it can throw the system out then foul plugs. AFFECTED BY ALTITUDE CHANGES? Remember the TPI system only readjusts when you restart the engine. FURTHER NOTES: I've seen so many conflicting views over the TPI setup! Many riders are reporting a loss of low end power compared to the carby models, others say it's improved and definitely better than carb Katos despite the increased weight. Spluttering at mid range, difficulty in setting it up for different altitudes... there's even an aftermarket kit to allegedly make TPI bikes run as good as the carb models lol. All I can say is it's very important to do your research, and also see if the 2020 models and on are getting better reports. Here is a thread discussing some of the issues... www.dirtbikeworld.net/forum/showthread.php?t=128013 ktmtalk.com/printthread.php?t=554623&pp=10
Mine is the best dirt bike I have ever ridden in 28 years off road, no problems at all and I love the response at all throttle openings, cold day, hot day, makes no difference, running mega slow in tight trails and then you can open the throttle and pulls away as clean as you like, no needing to clear it's throat. It's honestly amazing
It takes these Greenie fucks following the death cult of man made climate change to be removed from power positions. Otherwise the combustion engine will be a thing of the past in 20 or 30 years
I was lucky enough to ride the KTM TPI bikes at a demo day. Compared to my Beta 250rr, the 250 TPI was softer through the bottom end and midrange. Top end felt about the same. The 300 TPI felt about equal to my 250rr through the midrange. But hit ever so slightly harder below about 3000rpm. Not much difference really. My butt dyno says the TPI bikes are slightly down on power at lower revs. I've got no problems with fuel injection, but they need to allow the ECUs to be programmable for me to jump on board 100%. If you can't tune it to match mods then it's no good. KTM doesn't even want you adjusting the power valve on the TPI bikes. Until they change that, I'm not a fan.
I have 40 hours on my TE 300i and it has been flawless. 6 other riding buddies also own a TPI 300 and they all have been great. The bikes are mapped on the lean side to meet regulations but in general run better as delivered than the 4T models. The aftermarket has responded and consumer adjustable ECUs are now available for those who are compelled to farkle. To me the biggest operational difference between the TPI and carby models is the more accurate low speed fueling. This is really noticeable in slow rpm technical riding: the TPI bike lugs down even lower, won’t stall, doesn’t die on steep downhills, and provide a hitless power delivery that makes finding and modulating traction easier in sketchy situations. For those who can plate their TPI bikes ( like me!), the improved fueling makes for much smoother running on the road with less surging and no loading up. If you are an aggressive rider and run at big throttle openings a lot, you probably won’t appreciate most of the benefits. Both systems make about the same maximum power. I got 400 miles out of my first 2T oil tank. The computer adjusts the mix ratio between 60/1-100/1. Cold starting is also better. Just be sure to get the motor fully warmed up before demanding big power.
Just put a Lectron carb on my 300 Husky TE, what a difference, performance and fuel consumption is brilliant, saved myself buying a new TPi........ for now
Well, I also can say some things about the tpi (MY 19): The bike feels less aggressive than my 17 model (mikuni carb.). After only 5hours of riding, there are already some scratches on the piston (exhaust side). There is no monitoring of the fuel pump, so if it goes bad, the engine will not get any oil, which is not acceptable. It indeed needs less fuel than my carbed model, but the difference is not really huge. The downside of the tpi (for me) is that you can't change anything on your engine, because of the mapping. If you want to change something, you have to go to the dealer, and remap the ECU. I like to have the opportunity to change things on the fly, whether it is the jetting or the power valve spring.... I will stick to my old katie as long as possible.
You should check out this guys videos. He's been doing a lot of testing of wearable components on the TPI bikes ruclips.net/channel/UCqKpX1XNN4WL4dEf-sNh4ygfeed
Even if the TPI version is not better, its the first time emissions standards havent made a bike literally shit. I think its exciting, and i hope the tech improves enough that we will se the return of roadgoing twostrokes
No putrid ethanol gas in your carb if it sits for a month is a godsend though. I don't want to drop my fuel bowl everytime I store a bike and then dry out the needle valve. That and perfect mix for all conditions and no flooding on drops.
I'm just 3 weeks out from trying the 300TPI. 2 days coaching from Tim Coleman + 3 day tour will likely be the best 5 days of my riding life. 2 decades since I've ridden a 2-stroke, can't wait!
I've brought my new 300 tpi last year in September not a problem with it but it's my first 2 Stoke coming off a KTM 350 big difference in power weight handling I love the sound of 2-stroke it's got 45 hrs still going hard no complaints with me
So TPI, cost more, harder to fix problems and makes a 2 stroke more like a 4 stroke regarding more sluggish responce and a more linear power curve? Not sold on that one bit. Besides I consider my 2 stokes emission output as fuel for plants during photosynthesis. I am literly saving the planet every time I ride my YZ!
Just regural maintenance as on any other bike.Air filters,4x gearbox oil changes,4x inline fuel filters(4€) and at 100 hours I had to do front fork rebuild(new oil,seals...) cause I dented them in a crash on rocks and they started leaking.And ofc I had to replace them but that's only my fault.Apart from that I'm only lubricating chain,refueling gas and every once in a while oil.
Test rode the range of KTM 250 - 350 2 and 4 stroke bikes at a demo day and liked the 300 xc-w TPI the best. I ride a 500 exc and none of the 2 stokes matched the power but all were certainly more nimble and would no doubt be quicker and easier to ride through the technical tracks. The 300 xc (carb) was fine, suspension was stiffer but nothing notable in differences of carb v. TPI. The 250 TPI spun up faster but didn't have the same low end as the 300 which could be lugged like my 500. I like the idea of not having to mix gas and can fill up at any gas station and not have to mess with jetting but this is based on having no experience with a carb bike.
@@seanpurcell9056 Kinda, yeah but that's my lack of experience with 2T. I was continually told that 2T make so much more power and that a 300 would be comparable to my 500. Not that the 300 was any slow but the two are not comparable. That said the 300 was much more nimble and would be faster on the technical stuff and suck up less energy.
@@TeamStruggleBunny they are if you put 300 2 stroke again 300 4 stroke if you get a chance of a shot of 500 2 stroke you no about it they mite be old now boy they go if they were not kill off and had the same amount of development as the 4 stroke got over the years they be something else dont get me wrong modern 4 stroke got some amount of power too they can hall ass. Some of the new electric bikes are coming on leaps and bounds love to try one some day all ways good to try something new and different keeps you on your toes ha ha keep the wheels right way up and injoy
@@seanpurcell9056 My buddy has been looking for a CR 500 for awhile he love to steer with the throttle lol. Can only imagine the Maico 700cc 2 stroke - it must be completely nutters. I saw one at a rally along with a KTM 450 Rally, I couldn't think of anything to offer the owners to let me take them for a spin. Ended up on the same team as the 450 owner and I have no doubt he'd have let me have a go if I had asked. Enough to admire the carbon fibre tower in hard wired Gopros haha. So many awesome machines out there. I do love my 500 though and think I'll add a 300 TPI to the garage though it'll be hard to justify keeping extra bikes that do the similar duty.
As always, nice video Barry! A few things need to be discussed. I had a first series TPI myself, so I can tell you that the bike isnt "greener" as no one rides it restricted. Once uncorked it may produce less smoke though. Second thing and hundred times proven in the meantine is the fuel consumption which isn't much better than it was with carb, provided the carb is correctly jetted. It may save a bit of fuel in the tight and slow first and second gear stuff. In the fast WOT bits and on sand it may need even more gas than the carbed bike. Its not only me who has experienced this but most of the fast boys...
What I've always loved about 2 strokes is tha ability to get them to somewhat operational state with very little tools or expertise. Duct tape and a hammer fix 90% of problems.
Gotta think that tpi performance could be adjusted to perform as good as carbureted in all conditions. Also the bugs will be sorted out. If two strokes are to remain a viable product then they will need tpi to remain legal in the dystopia.
I have a had a good experience with my TPI. In stock form its a great bike, linear power curve, and runs perfect. It has a unique character compared to a carb'd 2T but I wouldn't necessarily say that makes it bad just different. Fuel efficiency differences really depend on how badly tuned or rich the carb'd 2T you typically ride is. You may notice a big difference or no difference at all. I checked the bore at 40hrs and didn't see any wear issues. I feel like a lot of the concerns on the internet are rather nitpicky. There isn't anything a carb'd 2T KTM can do that the TPI would have a problem doing even with the stock bikes lean(er) fuel map. Even then those minuscule differences may not even be noticeable depending on how and where you ride. Reliability wise I haven't seen any issues.
The real question is Lectron Carb vs TPI. Does the Lectron give the best of both worlds? It sucks attempting to troubleshoot TPI problems. Carbs are far easier to fix.
The carb option probably seems daunting for first timers, just throw a JD jet kit in for your aprox altitude and never touch it again. Very marginal, but better mid range delivery than the TPI. 19' model comparison.
I disagree. As well as they work if tuned right and as much as I like to tinker, they can really suck. Flood like crazy when you drop them. Will always start leaking in time. Virtually never tuned perfect, no matter how good you are. Need to be started monthly in storage or the bowl dropped to avoid rancid gas. If you don't keep rancid gas at bay, you've got 2 hours of cleaning to do.
@Jonathan Spier I haven't gotten enough hours on mine but I think they said to replace them around 90 hours just to be sure. I almost wish they made a 200 TPI personally because the 125, 150, and 200 use the smaller frame I'm pretty sure
Always the same talk. "Uuuuuh, it's more complex then a carb". YES, IT IS but have you seen people abandon 4-stroke in the woods for the same reason? They had injection for years and years.
of course people occasionally get stuck in the woods when a four stroke oil pump fails, or the fuel injection, or the relevant electrical connections... or just simply the injection getting clogged up. it doesn't happen often but it DOES happen, and some people prefer less potential complications compared to others.
I've had carb problems in the bush, but it's never been a trail side repair. Indeed I had carb issues with an XR that took months to resolve. (Incorrect jets and slide fitted, I still don't know how as the carb had never been apart). The carb was the last thing we tried, but I spent thousands before that because it simply didn't present as a carb issue.
@@gasdive I never owned a carb enduro bike so I can't really debate. I know people who owns them and I said to myself to never buy a 2-stroke until it got injected and here I am. I never got stranded with my 4-stroke or 2-stroke in the woods (excluding when I emptied the battery running aux batteries).
@@perpelle Yes, people are mostly being dramatic. When I rode a carb'd bike its not like I rode around with an extra carb. TBH most EFI failures usually come from people running a tank of bad gas and clogging everything up or not changing the filters in the oil and fuel systems.
I got a leftover 18 xcw carb bike for a lot better price. Put a lectron on it and fuel economy is awesome and once you dial it In you don’t have to touch the carb. Less stuff to worry about IMO
What wasn't mentioned is the need to replace the oil pump at 80 hours. Being a stickler for maintenance I was changing my piston, rings, etc every 100 hours but I pushed that out to 140 given so little wear, but now, if I commit to a TPI bike I have to front up the additional cost of the oil pump in advance of the top end rebuild almost twice as often. So what? Yeah, it's not a real problem but what I do have a problem with is why are they supplying such a pathetic oil pump? 80 hours??!! That is total BS! And the worry is, if it fails after the initial minuscule warranty but before the 80 hours that's it. Motor blown. Top end, bottom end, the lot. I'll be going Beta or Sherco for the next bike unless they also go injected. And BTW the word is no more carby KTM's and Huskys. What we got here now is the last of them. :-(
KTM loves engineering failure into everything. Good catch on the oil pumps, that's absurd. I guess the oil pumps on $800 third world scooters with tens of thousands of miles get changed every 80 hrs. Same with injection snowmobiles with 25k+ miles. Oil injection and fuel injection is definitely not going to decrease reliability though, unless KTM goes to great lengths to make it less reliabile. With these new systems the oiling is generally better and there won't be liquid gas washing your cylinder when you stack it like a carb. Perfect fuel mix all the time, so way more consistent piston temp. Injection snowmobiles and outboard boat engines have been a big step forward in everything, carbon build up, top end life, efficiency.
I think just about the only performance problem with injection is a little bit jerky and lumpy at very small throttle openings, on and off throttle, and starting. A pilot jet is extremely good at metering small amounts of gas, where a big injector always tends to struggle. These systems obviously add complexity and cost, but none of the traditional carb problems out weighs that imo. I've taken apart so many carbs, while straightforward, i could definitely get used to less of them.
Changing the oil pump at 80 is more like a guide. My mates 18 300 was on 160 hours when he sold it and he didn’t change the oil pump. My 19 300 is currently on 10 hours so she’s still knew. Will just have to see how she does. I think the 18’s they had a lot of problems but they sorted them out with the 19’s.
@@radford_0731 yes, but pumping oil is not a difficult job. Even on a 4 stroke, that pumps 100 times the oil of a 2 stroke. An oil pump that drips out oil should definitely last the life of the engine.
ridden my carb back to back with a tpi a few weekends ago in the real nasty extreme enduro stuff , tpi has a little less grunt down low and in mid , tpi gets onto the pipe really strong which makes it harder to keep in control , few things it didnt like to do where the carb pulled , fuel economy was identical ! , glad i chose a carb, tpi is not there yet close tho, if you can pick up a 2nd hand carb with low hours and big $$ off then jump on it ,
What do you think about the low end grunt on beta vs ktm. I rode the RR250 awhile ago and have just got a 250exc carb, ktm has fek all low end in compassion, I'm 65 kg and it doesn't even like to do pivot turns or lug up easy hills in second.
Just wondering if in other people's experience if they really are that weak down low in comparison to the betas or if something may be wrong with my bike. Ktm didn't put a gasket in properly and I had to go through a whole warranty thing so wondering if something else isn't right on it or there is another leak.
Exc comes with pretty low compression. Bumping that up would help a ton. Easiest (and cheapest) way would be to pop on an SX head or get the stock milled. I’ve read too that an SX cdi helps but haven’t tried it. I have a 17 250xc with different head and Vforce 4 reeds + Lectron and it chugs real good on the bottom end. Only reason I run a Lectron is due to where I ride and the temp/elevation changes.
Yea I'm at 500m above sea level and also have v force 4 reeds, stock head and carb but. Still seems to be quite the different between the two bikes in my experience. Would be keen to ride another 250 kato and see how it goes
I think this has made my mind up, 2017 300 over 2018 250 tpi. I originally wanted the tpi for no oil mixing and the auto jetting as well as the better fuel economy but if the oem tank is smaller anyway then what’s the point? Plus I’m a gumby mechanic and don’t want to have to deal with all this other complicated electronic shit as well as all the first gen issues that arose. Thanks for the informative video as always.
You talked about Reliability but I am wondering about how long they will last compared to a carburetor bike. My guess is not nearly as long. Anytime you run a 2stroke bike leaner you run the risk of wearing out parts much more quickly, especially Piston and rings.
I'm not interested in tpi bikes until it is the only option. More complex and expensive offset any "positives" that it may have. My carb works just fine..
i've wondered about this too purely from a physics angle, adam. and also because a 300 could be revving less too which theoretically would cancel out any difference? but the vid is based on a wide variety of reviews, comments and opinions i gathered from various sources and so many mentioned this it thought it was worth including, even if it's a dodgy premise lol.
But you got a point there, for bikes it's not so massively important...if you look at boats for example...a freighter burns multiple TONS of Diesel per hour and has no CATs at all.
i've got ur point and i think that its unneccesary for dirtbikes as there are many bigger problems. but the daily used vehicles need the lowest emissions posssible.
Unlike fuel injection, a lot of the motorcycle emissions stuff is a scam. Look at the Honda 650L, and many other bikes in its category....an air pump bolted on the side of the engine that pumps clean air into the exhaust, so that the air coming out the exhaust is “cleaner”. Same amount of pollution being produced, just diluted. More fossil fuels had to be burned just to turn the pump and lug the extra weight around everywhere that you go. What a scam, and actually worse for the environment.
@@xGxPhantomZzz it doesn't have cats but they are making diesel engines to where you must have def or dpf or some type of emission restriction only reason why they don't bother boats is reliability marnetime mechanics can't have all the emission parts on a boat/ or a ship that can't run emissions is bullshit nuclear power plants and batteries put off more toxic air then a small engine .... Just telling y'all the truth governments gotta put there hand in every pocket
Just acquired a 2019 300 TPI, seems OK and for me the convenience of not having to worry about carrying 2 stroke oil is bloody great but if there was a grand difference in cost in another country then that is a different matter. I totally understand anybody sticking with a carb but if this TPI allows us to carry on enjoying the 2 stroke because it satisfies the climate Nazis, then hey, it is not a serious sacrifice and it really does seem to increase fuel range which ain't a bad thing. I am not an expert, but I would say if you had a carb 250 before then get a 300 TPI this time but I could be wrong, I know fuck all, I am what our host would call a total Gumby. There might be other advantages such as no longer needing to blip the throttle to lube the piston on long down hill descents to prevent potential seizure maybe? Just a thought.
never underestimate the wisdom of a gumby. there is strength in admitting how little we know! Socrates said, "All I know is that I know nothing" which apparently is meant to be very deep in some way.... 😁
TPI sucks and maintenance is expensive, plus too many things may fail - oil pump, fuel pump, sensors etc etc I bought carbed sherco 300se factory instead.
There are reports too that you'll need a battery pack because a clutch start won't get the bike going again if the battery is dead. It's not a dealer killer necessarily as bikes without kickstarters might require this if you could get stuck in a situation where clutch starting isn't an option. But a guy I know said he's had to rescue two TPI bikes in a week where the battery went.
VERY IMPORTANT! Some TPI models are seizing at low hours due to not using enough oil. We also have much more up-to-date information now. See our video here: ruclips.net/video/sExzuIUgFb0/видео.html
TPI SPLUTTERING? Try turning your power valve out. It may mean a bigger power hit early than you want but it can be a very simple fix. Hopefully you won't need to do this in future editions.
NOT IDLING CORRECTLY? Try turning out your air screw out and see if this fixes it.
In some cases two to three turns out...
DON'T TOUCH THE THROTTLE WHEN STARTING (& WARMING UP): it can throw the system out then foul plugs.
AFFECTED BY ALTITUDE CHANGES? Remember the TPI system only readjusts when you restart the engine.
FURTHER NOTES: I've seen so many conflicting views over the TPI setup! Many riders are reporting a loss of low end power compared to the carby models, others say it's improved and definitely better than carb Katos despite the increased weight. Spluttering at mid range, difficulty in setting it up for different altitudes... there's even an aftermarket kit to allegedly make TPI bikes run as good as the carb models lol. All I can say is it's very important to do your research, and also see if the 2020 models and on are getting better reports. Here is a thread discussing some of the issues...
www.dirtbikeworld.net/forum/showthread.php?t=128013
ktmtalk.com/printthread.php?t=554623&pp=10
Mine is the best dirt bike I have ever ridden in 28 years off road, no problems at all and I love the response at all throttle openings, cold day, hot day, makes no difference, running mega slow in tight trails and then you can open the throttle and pulls away as clean as you like, no needing to clear it's throat. It's honestly amazing
My carbureted bike keeps the planet greener, plants love co2 and my carbed 300 is basically plant food. 🙃
😁
Whatever it takes to keep 2 strokes on the trails
It takes these Greenie fucks following the death cult of man made climate change to be removed from power positions. Otherwise the combustion engine will be a thing of the past in 20 or 30 years
Ryan Gabriele well said. 👍
I was lucky enough to ride the KTM TPI bikes at a demo day. Compared to my Beta 250rr, the 250 TPI was softer through the bottom end and midrange. Top end felt about the same. The 300 TPI felt about equal to my 250rr through the midrange. But hit ever so slightly harder below about 3000rpm. Not much difference really. My butt dyno says the TPI bikes are slightly down on power at lower revs. I've got no problems with fuel injection, but they need to allow the ECUs to be programmable for me to jump on board 100%. If you can't tune it to match mods then it's no good. KTM doesn't even want you adjusting the power valve on the TPI bikes. Until they change that, I'm not a fan.
I have 40 hours on my TE 300i and it has been flawless. 6 other riding buddies also own a TPI 300 and they all have been great. The bikes are mapped on the lean side to meet regulations but in general run better as delivered than the 4T models. The aftermarket has responded and consumer adjustable ECUs are now available for those who are compelled to farkle. To me the biggest operational difference between the TPI and carby models is the more accurate low speed fueling. This is really noticeable in slow rpm technical riding: the TPI bike lugs down even lower, won’t stall, doesn’t die on steep downhills, and provide a hitless power delivery that makes finding and modulating traction easier in sketchy situations. For those who can plate their TPI bikes ( like me!), the improved fueling makes for much smoother running on the road with less surging and no loading up. If you are an aggressive rider and run at big throttle openings a lot, you probably won’t appreciate most of the benefits. Both systems make about the same maximum power. I got 400 miles out of my first 2T oil tank. The computer adjusts the mix ratio between 60/1-100/1. Cold starting is also better. Just be sure to get the motor fully warmed up before demanding big power.
Farkling isn't in my vernacular.
Just put a Lectron carb on my 300 Husky TE, what a difference, performance and fuel consumption is brilliant, saved myself buying a new TPi........ for now
Well, I also can say some things about the tpi (MY 19):
The bike feels less aggressive than my 17 model (mikuni carb.). After only 5hours of riding, there are already some scratches on the piston (exhaust side). There is no monitoring of the fuel pump, so if it goes bad, the engine will not get any oil, which is not acceptable.
It indeed needs less fuel than my carbed model, but the difference is not really huge. The downside of the tpi (for me) is that you can't change anything on your engine, because of the mapping. If you want to change something, you have to go to the dealer, and remap the ECU.
I like to have the opportunity to change things on the fly, whether it is the jetting or the power valve spring.... I will stick to my old katie as long as possible.
You should check out this guys videos. He's been doing a lot of testing of wearable components on the TPI bikes ruclips.net/channel/UCqKpX1XNN4WL4dEf-sNh4ygfeed
If it can self adjust to altitude it should be able to self adjust to other changes that don't effect timing.
oh it's "that guy". I'd avoid his videos man.
Why avoid that guy?
Even if the TPI version is not better, its the first time emissions standards havent made a bike literally shit. I think its exciting, and i hope the tech improves enough that we will se the return of roadgoing twostrokes
No putrid ethanol gas in your carb if it sits for a month is a godsend though. I don't want to drop my fuel bowl everytime I store a bike and then dry out the needle valve. That and perfect mix for all conditions and no flooding on drops.
I'm just 3 weeks out from trying the 300TPI. 2 days coaching from Tim Coleman + 3 day tour will likely be the best 5 days of my riding life. 2 decades since I've ridden a 2-stroke, can't wait!
I've brought my new 300 tpi last year in September not a problem with it but it's my first 2 Stoke coming off a KTM 350 big difference in power weight handling I love the sound of 2-stroke it's got 45 hrs still going hard no complaints with me
The TPI has been a great promotion for other brands over here.
So TPI, cost more, harder to fix problems and makes a 2 stroke more like a 4 stroke regarding more sluggish responce and a more linear power curve? Not sold on that one bit. Besides I consider my 2 stokes emission output as fuel for plants during photosynthesis. I am literly saving the planet every time I ride my YZ!
Not to mention also helping curb mosquito population
With you on that one mate, well said!
I have a 250TPI for about a year with 120 hours and I can only say that I'm never going back to carb.
what maintenance have you done so far? im still on the fence
Just regural maintenance as on any other bike.Air filters,4x gearbox oil changes,4x inline fuel filters(4€) and at 100 hours I had to do front fork rebuild(new oil,seals...) cause I dented them in a crash on rocks and they started leaking.And ofc I had to replace them but that's only my fault.Apart from that I'm only lubricating chain,refueling gas and every once in a while oil.
No oil pump?
No oil pump yet.No piston.But I'm planing to change both the piston and the oil pump in spring somewhere arround 150-160 hours.
Thanks useful to know. Hoping to test one soon together with a 350f
Test rode the range of KTM 250 - 350 2 and 4 stroke bikes at a demo day and liked the 300 xc-w TPI the best. I ride a 500 exc and none of the 2 stokes matched the power but all were certainly more nimble and would no doubt be quicker and easier to ride through the technical tracks. The 300 xc (carb) was fine, suspension was stiffer but nothing notable in differences of carb v. TPI. The 250 TPI spun up faster but didn't have the same low end as the 300 which could be lugged like my 500. I like the idea of not having to mix gas and can fill up at any gas station and not have to mess with jetting but this is based on having no experience with a carb bike.
Everything feels like a step down from a 500 4T 😁.
Your saying 300 na got the same power as 500 mmmm could it be the 200cc of different maybe
@@seanpurcell9056 Kinda, yeah but that's my lack of experience with 2T. I was continually told that 2T make so much more power and that a 300 would be comparable to my 500. Not that the 300 was any slow but the two are not comparable. That said the 300 was much more nimble and would be faster on the technical stuff and suck up less energy.
@@TeamStruggleBunny they are if you put 300 2 stroke again 300 4 stroke if you get a chance of a shot of 500 2 stroke you no about it they mite be old now boy they go if they were not kill off and had the same amount of development as the 4 stroke got over the years they be something else dont get me wrong modern 4 stroke got some amount of power too they can hall ass. Some of the new electric bikes are coming on leaps and bounds love to try one some day all ways good to try something new and different keeps you on your toes ha ha keep the wheels right way up and injoy
@@seanpurcell9056 My buddy has been looking for a CR 500 for awhile he love to steer with the throttle lol. Can only imagine the Maico 700cc 2 stroke - it must be completely nutters. I saw one at a rally along with a KTM 450 Rally, I couldn't think of anything to offer the owners to let me take them for a spin. Ended up on the same team as the 450 owner and I have no doubt he'd have let me have a go if I had asked. Enough to admire the carbon fibre tower in hard wired Gopros haha. So many awesome machines out there. I do love my 500 though and think I'll add a 300 TPI to the garage though it'll be hard to justify keeping extra bikes that do the similar duty.
Happy TE300i owner here. In love with my bike.
As always, nice video Barry! A few things need to be discussed. I had a first series TPI myself, so I can tell you that the bike isnt "greener" as no one rides it restricted. Once uncorked it may produce less smoke though. Second thing and hundred times proven in the meantine is the fuel consumption which isn't much better than it was with carb, provided the carb is correctly jetted. It may save a bit of fuel in the tight and slow first and second gear stuff. In the fast WOT bits and on sand it may need even more gas than the carbed bike. Its not only me who has experienced this but most of the fast boys...
What I've always loved about 2 strokes is tha ability to get them to somewhat operational state with very little tools or expertise. Duct tape and a hammer fix 90% of problems.
Gotta think that tpi performance could be adjusted to perform as good as carbureted in all conditions. Also the bugs will be sorted out. If two strokes are to remain a viable product then they will need tpi to remain legal in the dystopia.
I have a had a good experience with my TPI. In stock form its a great bike, linear power curve, and runs perfect. It has a unique character compared to a carb'd 2T but I wouldn't necessarily say that makes it bad just different. Fuel efficiency differences really depend on how badly tuned or rich the carb'd 2T you typically ride is. You may notice a big difference or no difference at all. I checked the bore at 40hrs and didn't see any wear issues. I feel like a lot of the concerns on the internet are rather nitpicky. There isn't anything a carb'd 2T KTM can do that the TPI would have a problem doing even with the stock bikes lean(er) fuel map. Even then those minuscule differences may not even be noticeable depending on how and where you ride. Reliability wise I haven't seen any issues.
The real question is Lectron Carb vs TPI. Does the Lectron give the best of both worlds? It sucks attempting to troubleshoot TPI problems. Carbs are far easier to fix.
The carb option probably seems daunting for first timers, just throw a JD jet kit in for your aprox altitude and never touch it again. Very marginal, but better mid range delivery than the TPI. 19' model comparison.
I disagree. As well as they work if tuned right and as much as I like to tinker, they can really suck. Flood like crazy when you drop them. Will always start leaking in time. Virtually never tuned perfect, no matter how good you are. Need to be started monthly in storage or the bowl dropped to avoid rancid gas. If you don't keep rancid gas at bay, you've got 2 hours of cleaning to do.
Good job carefully choosing the words! Even if you mean no harm, the almighty TPI is rabidly defended!
yes i know TPI launched a fatwah against the last videographer who criticised it and he's disappeared suddenly. 😨
Love my 2018 TPI here in the states!
@Jonathan Spier Its been great to me. The only hiccup it has had was a weird misifre that was solved by a ecu reset.
@Jonathan Spier I haven't gotten enough hours on mine but I think they said to replace them around 90 hours just to be sure. I almost wish they made a 200 TPI personally because the 125, 150, and 200 use the smaller frame I'm pretty sure
How many hours will the TPI motor average before rebuild is required? I'm wondering about lean burn 2 strokes holding up.
Always the same talk. "Uuuuuh, it's more complex then a carb". YES, IT IS but have you seen people abandon 4-stroke in the woods for the same reason? They had injection for years and years.
of course people occasionally get stuck in the woods when a four stroke oil pump fails, or the fuel injection, or the relevant electrical connections... or just simply the injection getting clogged up. it doesn't happen often but it DOES happen, and some people prefer less potential complications compared to others.
I've had carb problems in the bush, but it's never been a trail side repair. Indeed I had carb issues with an XR that took months to resolve. (Incorrect jets and slide fitted, I still don't know how as the carb had never been apart). The carb was the last thing we tried, but I spent thousands before that because it simply didn't present as a carb issue.
@@crosstrainingenduro The other alternative is no more 2-stroke. I know what I would pick.
@@gasdive I never owned a carb enduro bike so I can't really debate. I know people who owns them and I said to myself to never buy a 2-stroke until it got injected and here I am.
I never got stranded with my 4-stroke or 2-stroke in the woods (excluding when I emptied the battery running aux batteries).
@@perpelle Yes, people are mostly being dramatic. When I rode a carb'd bike its not like I rode around with an extra carb. TBH most EFI failures usually come from people running a tank of bad gas and clogging everything up or not changing the filters in the oil and fuel systems.
I got a leftover 18 xcw carb bike for a lot better price. Put a lectron on it and fuel economy is awesome and once you dial it In you don’t have to touch the carb. Less stuff to worry about IMO
What wasn't mentioned is the need to replace the oil pump at 80 hours. Being a stickler for maintenance I was changing my piston, rings, etc every 100 hours but I pushed that out to 140 given so little wear, but now, if I commit to a TPI bike I have to front up the additional cost of the oil pump in advance of the top end rebuild almost twice as often. So what? Yeah, it's not a real problem but what I do have a problem with is why are they supplying such a pathetic oil pump? 80 hours??!! That is total BS! And the worry is, if it fails after the initial minuscule warranty but before the 80 hours that's it. Motor blown. Top end, bottom end, the lot. I'll be going Beta or Sherco for the next bike unless they also go injected. And BTW the word is no more carby KTM's and Huskys. What we got here now is the last of them. :-(
makes my 2015 worth that much more!
KTM loves engineering failure into everything. Good catch on the oil pumps, that's absurd. I guess the oil pumps on $800 third world scooters with tens of thousands of miles get changed every 80 hrs. Same with injection snowmobiles with 25k+ miles. Oil injection and fuel injection is definitely not going to decrease reliability though, unless KTM goes to great lengths to make it less reliabile. With these new systems the oiling is generally better and there won't be liquid gas washing your cylinder when you stack it like a carb. Perfect fuel mix all the time, so way more consistent piston temp. Injection snowmobiles and outboard boat engines have been a big step forward in everything, carbon build up, top end life, efficiency.
I think just about the only performance problem with injection is a little bit jerky and lumpy at very small throttle openings, on and off throttle, and starting. A pilot jet is extremely good at metering small amounts of gas, where a big injector always tends to struggle. These systems obviously add complexity and cost, but none of the traditional carb problems out weighs that imo. I've taken apart so many carbs, while straightforward, i could definitely get used to less of them.
Changing the oil pump at 80 is more like a guide. My mates 18 300 was on 160 hours when he sold it and he didn’t change the oil pump. My 19 300 is currently on 10 hours so she’s still knew. Will just have to see how she does. I think the 18’s they had a lot of problems but they sorted them out with the 19’s.
@@radford_0731 yes, but pumping oil is not a difficult job. Even on a 4 stroke, that pumps 100 times the oil of a 2 stroke. An oil pump that drips out oil should definitely last the life of the engine.
I learn a lot from you all and appreciate the videos, especially the comical shows. Haha
Peace
Interesting comparison.
Hmmmm....glad I'm in the States bro.
ridden my carb back to back with a tpi a few weekends ago in the real nasty extreme enduro stuff , tpi has a little less grunt down low and in mid , tpi gets onto the pipe really strong which makes it harder to keep in control , few things it didnt like to do where the carb pulled , fuel economy was identical ! , glad i chose a carb, tpi is not there yet close tho, if you can pick up a 2nd hand carb with low hours and big $$ off then jump on it ,
What do you think about the low end grunt on beta vs ktm. I rode the RR250 awhile ago and have just got a 250exc carb, ktm has fek all low end in compassion, I'm 65 kg and it doesn't even like to do pivot turns or lug up easy hills in second.
Just wondering if in other people's experience if they really are that weak down low in comparison to the betas or if something may be wrong with my bike. Ktm didn't put a gasket in properly and I had to go through a whole warranty thing so wondering if something else isn't right on it or there is another leak.
Exc comes with pretty low compression. Bumping that up would help a ton. Easiest (and cheapest) way would be to pop on an SX head or get the stock milled. I’ve read too that an SX cdi helps but haven’t tried it. I have a 17 250xc with different head and Vforce 4 reeds + Lectron and it chugs real good on the bottom end. Only reason I run a Lectron is due to where I ride and the temp/elevation changes.
Yea I'm at 500m above sea level and also have v force 4 reeds, stock head and carb but. Still seems to be quite the different between the two bikes in my experience. Would be keen to ride another 250 kato and see how it goes
I don’t know what your definition of an easy hill is, but I’m 90 kilos and mine lugs up easy hills no bother.
I think this has made my mind up, 2017 300 over 2018 250 tpi. I originally wanted the tpi for no oil mixing and the auto jetting as well as the better fuel economy but if the oem tank is smaller anyway then what’s the point? Plus I’m a gumby mechanic and don’t want to have to deal with all this other complicated electronic shit as well as all the first gen issues that arose. Thanks for the informative video as always.
Can you engine brake with the tpi?
You talked about Reliability but I am wondering about how long they will last compared to a carburetor bike. My guess is not nearly as long. Anytime you run a 2stroke bike leaner you run the risk of wearing out parts much more quickly, especially Piston and rings.
Yep... the law of physics come into play... you can not lean burn a 2 stroke and have it last very long....
I'm not interested in tpi bikes until it is the only option. More complex and expensive offset any "positives" that it may have. My carb works just fine..
What camera did you use for the video ??? Your other videos dont fade out and go funny like this one
do you mean the audio? i used the gopro for this one and their wind reduction setting plays havoc with the audio levels and quality unfortunately.
music was a bit to loud in this one :/
You didn’t mention no pre mix 😎
As most 250s and 300s share every motor rotational part other than the piston witch is really not rotating you will not feel a difference.
i've wondered about this too purely from a physics angle, adam. and also because a 300 could be revving less too which theoretically would cancel out any difference? but the vid is based on a wide variety of reviews, comments and opinions i gathered from various sources and so many mentioned this it thought it was worth including, even if it's a dodgy premise lol.
so sick of emissions restrictions. its a freakin scam.
Have fun with floods then lol look at the netherlands they already have huge problems with the rising water levels.
But you got a point there, for bikes it's not so massively important...if you look at boats for example...a freighter burns multiple TONS of Diesel per hour and has no CATs at all.
i've got ur point and i think that its unneccesary for dirtbikes as there are many bigger problems. but the daily used vehicles need the lowest emissions posssible.
Unlike fuel injection, a lot of the motorcycle emissions stuff is a scam. Look at the Honda 650L, and many other bikes in its category....an air pump bolted on the side of the engine that pumps clean air into the exhaust, so that the air coming out the exhaust is “cleaner”. Same amount of pollution being produced, just diluted. More fossil fuels had to be burned just to turn the pump and lug the extra weight around everywhere that you go. What a scam, and actually worse for the environment.
@@xGxPhantomZzz it doesn't have cats but they are making diesel engines to where you must have def or dpf or some type of emission restriction only reason why they don't bother boats is reliability marnetime mechanics can't have all the emission parts on a boat/ or a ship that can't run emissions is bullshit nuclear power plants and batteries put off more toxic air then a small engine .... Just telling y'all the truth governments gotta put there hand in every pocket
zeroth comment!
More good stuff
Just acquired a 2019 300 TPI, seems OK and for me the convenience of not having to worry about carrying 2 stroke oil is bloody great but if there was a grand difference in cost in another country then that is a different matter. I totally understand anybody sticking with a carb but if this TPI allows us to carry on enjoying the 2 stroke because it satisfies the climate Nazis, then hey, it is not a serious sacrifice and it really does seem to increase fuel range which ain't a bad thing. I am not an expert, but I would say if you had a carb 250 before then get a 300 TPI this time but I could be wrong, I know fuck all, I am what our host would call a total Gumby. There might be other advantages such as no longer needing to blip the throttle to lube the piston on long down hill descents to prevent potential seizure maybe? Just a thought.
never underestimate the wisdom of a gumby. there is strength in admitting how little we know! Socrates said, "All I know is that I know nothing" which apparently is meant to be very deep in some way.... 😁
Ouch! 3kg. Might as well get a 4-stroke :-P
if the sellpich starts with any kind of excuse just walk away!
TPI sucks and maintenance is expensive, plus too many things may fail - oil pump, fuel pump, sensors etc etc I bought carbed sherco 300se factory instead.
There are reports too that you'll need a battery pack because a clutch start won't get the bike going again if the battery is dead. It's not a dealer killer necessarily as bikes without kickstarters might require this if you could get stuck in a situation where clutch starting isn't an option. But a guy I know said he's had to rescue two TPI bikes in a week where the battery went.
@@crosstrainingenduro no electricity then oil pump stops and engine goes belly up :)
Greener? You lost me right there.
yes i suspect i'll lose my dirt riders on that one, bill lol
BoOoOpP