Header diameter & Megaphone - Dyno tested
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- Опубликовано: 11 авг 2023
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Test engine spec:
Modified smallport head w/ oversized valves
kelford beehive valve springs
shimless buckets
oversize toda pistons (1627cc)
bc rods
approx 12.5:1 compression
arp hardware throughout
toda oil pump gears
toda 3.7kg flywheel
52mm itb's
Garage4age Header and 3" exhaust
Link g4 ecu
Kelford 300 deg camshafts + VVTi 
Авто/Мото
That bonnet stay is just a trooper !!
Man this thing must be a blast to drive with those numbers .
The new gas struts always weaken & collapse over time. Old stuff always better.
NA engines require wizardry to make power. This stuff will always fascinate me.
This man is a wizard
as Richard Holdener likes to say, whatever power you make NA will simply be multiplied with boost
but yes if you are staying NA you need to pull every trick there is to maximize the output
@@kalui96 I get what old mate Richard means by that. but at a point it become untrue, for example, if you tried to run a turbo with the cams in this engine. it would be super lazy, since pretty much all the power under 6000rpm goes away, to less than what a factory engine makes. as the turbo would ruin the exhaust tuning.
@@Garage4age I figured you'd say that, since you're pretty experienced with this 🤣
I think he has that as like a "something to make the noobs happy"
👐👍
Most people will just buy an exhaust and intake and throw it on, but your videos show just how much is left on the table. All those little incremental gains from each bit can add up to huge results. And just on a little NA 4 cyl, basically the hardest place to start. Awesome work 👏
Yeah some people comment "oh only a few hp waste of time" but it pays off when can start stacking the gains
you're overlooking the fact that a lot of people don't have their own dyno and don't have the spare time or tools to tinker like you do. when you're paying a mechanic or mate to do this the cost to benefit ratio makes a big difference and additionally, not everyone is tuning a 4age for a rare chassis like yours @@Garage4age
@@Garage4age i was thinking it was hp and then saw KW. Damn, 3-4 kw difference is a lot)
@@jackmiller8851 Thats the unfortunate thing with na tuning. especially starting with a low capacity engine that makes ok power to start with. Nothing really makes a big gain, it's all small gains added together. If had a big o'l v8, lets say a ls1. thats 3.5 times the capacity. the results would look far more impressive rather than 9hp would be over 30hp. people always ask me what the best mod to do is. i cant answer it, because there isnt any stand out single thing to change. Also, dont have to have a dyno, I got a good part of the way road testing stuff before had dyno, although it does make things easier and less likely to get arrested haha
Yeah most of the time its the hardest place to start but take honda's K20 and k24 4cylinders they make 200hp stock and have insane tuning potential without even touching the engine or head at all. just a simple intake, header and exhaust can take you from 200 to 240hp its wild but the 4age takes alot of skill, time and money lol to make big power but i imagine its more rewarding and i think its cool asf
I love how you can hear the power surge every time the resonance inside the system causes a torque spike.
Always like to see the changes in Power. I wish for a 4-2-1 header video 👍🏻
Be nice to see this. It should pick up power low down and mid range rpm. Total bhp should also be lower. But it would be nice to see if that is true
@@MegaNozman at least in theory, but what happens if the 421 is one step bigger than the 41?? Are they similar in that case, or does the 421 still have an advantage??
A note: The merge collector on the big headers was changed to a steeper angle and smaller choke point, to closer resemble whats on the small headers. this was done after the first lot of testing. (pre megaphone) I tested it off cam on the normal exhaust, was basically zero change in power.
What angles are you using roughly?
Is there a good book to learn about header design?
was the length of the megaphone the same? shorter megaphone should kill the top less
@@overr8ted2 on the merge collector or megaphone?
@@Garage4age ummm not so much I’m guess that’s around 7 degrees or so what about right after the collector the cone between the collector and the main size of your exhaust tube and what sort of length have you found works best for that cone
I’m guessing your using that to start the negative pressure wave back up the pipes?
Love the channel and detail better than keypad myths and people talk.
Wish there was a opel channel lol
I recommend you do a voiced summary at the end.
great content ❤👍
Congratulations on 40.000 Subscribers !!
It's good to see you back with unique content.
Induction noise is amazing!
Love your work
One thing to note is even with some of the best off the shelf headers, smaller diam ones often have shorter than ideal lengths to suit milder builds, while the all out off the shelf competition headers from the same manufacture have the correct length and diameter within a few % of ideal for the high end of wild builds. So I have used comp style headers on mild builds just for the length as that makes more of a gain than the loss at lower rpm with being too big in the diam.
Custom headers with this sort of quality and r&d is something elusive, at least here in Aus. I have not found anyone in my state that does this.
A lot claim they do, but just the usual bird shit backyard style exhaust design and welding and have no clue about the maths and theory.
Luckily for one of my project cars, Pacemaker comp headers are like 98% spot on for my planned combo, and from the collector termination it's just a 2-1/3" flange, ready for cone, steps, megaphone or what ever it requires for fine tuning of the 2ndary pipe section.
Excellent video and information as usual.
Nothing like a consise self explanatory back to back testing video 👌 doing science
I knew there were gains to be had with some sort of expansion exhaust, awesome stuff.
I now i only wonder if you could create positive acoustic presure with expantion intake pipes mounted on the itb's
When you see the resonance of the exhaust in the power curve you have the right dimensions. (black curve at the end)
Just awesome work. KTM bikes are running a small expansion pipe on their 4 strokes. I hate to say it but I wonder if a small expansion pipe for each cylinder in the header at a tuned length, the idea would be that there wouldn't be reflected waves from every cylinder bouncing around every header pipe. I am happy to see that there are gains from the theories of the tuned exhaust. Excellent dedication to this
Have thought about it, would be a nightmare to fab and package haha. If you look closely at the big headers, there is a small section out of the port. the transition isn't actually a "step" its a small diverging cone. when i first built them they had the big tube all the way from the head. they made the same power as small headers (on bit lower power engine setup) i changed that section and it gained top end. same power down the bottom. So i guess that makes the video slightly misleading. but is interesting how a small change can make a difference. then a big change does nothing
@@Garage4age ya that's interesting. I guess that is the same thing really. KTM just had a little section of bigger pipe about 3" outside the exhaust port. A tiny little gain.
Have you ever tried the anti reversion “mufflers” sold by Hendren, Schoenfeld, Dynomax, & Vibrant? I’ve seen these / similar-copies placed after the megaphone on some K20/24 builds and they are very popular on circle track V8’s placed after the headers merge collector….some of these designs have a forcing cone in them (I believe to take place of the rear cone of the megaphone to attenuate the wave / stop over extraction).
I always look forward to your videos, even if you don't have an LS1 or a k20😂
Interesting video, thanks for making and sharing it. Can you specify the ID of both headers and the individual runner lengths?
Make your header !
First part (cylinder connexion) to the first welding in a big diameter, and reminders with the Lil diameters
Thanks!
Dang, I wish all your work was way back when I was racing an Ae86!
Another great video :). In a similar way to the megaphone effecting the reflection wave, have you ever tried having an expansion box within the system to create an atmosphere reflection point. The idea being that most exhaust systems are too long so having this open expansion volume allows you to tune the secondary/tertiary waves. I have seen quotes of people saying you want between 8-12times one cylinder volume for the expansion chamber, and a transition change into the chamber to get the reflection point, with a gradual change out of it to not cause a restriction in the flow. What are your thoughts?
I haven't gone into it much, but have tired a few open/expansion chambers. not a lot happened. I"ve always had best results with absorption muffler/reso's after the "tuned" length. that's whats directly after the megaphone
Are you referring to David Vizard's Pressure Wave Terminator Box?? and Anti Reversion?
@@chrispompano that is one of the article that I had seen that prompted the question
Have you ever thought of doing vvti on the exhaust side too. You are my go too channel for anything 4a
Yeah isn't really worth the extra complexity and demand on oil pump. Is only small gains over correctly set fixed exhaust cam timing. not like the intake side
Im wondering if you could get someone with a bonestock n/a xr6 ford falcon with a barra on the dyno and see how much power you could pull out of one of them
I would love to see a comparison of different butterfly and injector positions in itbs
Done already
Be interesting to see how it would go if the small header had shorter primarys
Good evening, could you explain what the megaphone does the the engine/exhaust? Tks in ad
and I have a damper on the exhaust and after 5000 MS3 opens, we get a shelf both below and above
Hi dear,
Is it possible to know the dimensions of the two different manifolds?
(internal diameter, length of each pipe before the merge fusion, etc.)
kind regards.
i se you run 4-1 headers, what do you think about 4-2-1 headers or have you tried some to see how it affect the engine?
How about long headers vs short ones. I already know long ones generally make more torque across the powerband, and might lose a little up top.
Do you already have a 20v vs 16v comparison? Thanks.
Part throttle below 4k. I'd be keen to hear more about that. If you've got the right foot under control, can you take out the wiggles? What happens?
Yeah its not really noticeable / a thing at part throttle. you can see it in the fuel map also as you would expect. basically at full throttle there is big spikes and dips in the fuel map that follow the power curve. they fade back to a fairly flat fuel map at low throttle openings. (it runs tps vs rpm aka alpha n fuel map)
Edited.. At part throttle the butterflies change the resonant length. ITBs have a much shorter distance from butterflies to valve compared to single throttle on the end of plenum.
There is any step between head exhaust port and headers?
If yes,is it in the upper or in the lower area of the port?
not port matched, but only a small step,
Do you know any good engine swaps for the p70 starlet? The stock 1.3 12 valve is kinda lacking. Awesome vid btw!
they go alright with a 5efhe in them. if want bolt in and na
@@Garage4age ill see if i can get one of those. Not super knowledgeable on toyota stuff and whats avaliable here in sweden. Thanks!
After all that, what do you prefer? Big header originsl pipe seems like the winner
Also what's the diameter on the big one?
@@devonswindell9735 big header with original pipe only holds on for a litlle longer right up top. so unless your were running close ratio box and keeping it over 8000rpm all the time, the big header with megaphone is my pick. i think there is some more in it just need to try more stuff. 44.5mm
Hello Garage4AG... I have a stock silvertop 20v and I changed the header from a blacktom one which is a little bigger... does it mean that I should better stay with a stock silvertop header if I am just using the car going to work? Thank you in advance.❤
havent tested the difference between them. but yeah if any gains on the blacktop headers, will be right up the top and st may give little more off the bottom. The primary tubes on the blacktop headers are actually the same size as the "small headers" in this video. which as you can see are good for lots of power
@@Garage4age thank you for taking time to respond. I should have not sold my stock silvertop headers. Oh well, I will buy one now...
It would be cool to see if you could do some budget turbo 4A stuff. I know the rods and pistons can't handle much, but with what is possible it would be interesting (esp since a lot of what you do is NA)
There is turbo stuff on my older hilux video's if you haven't seen them. only the blacktop rods are weak. any other 7rib bock with just factory 4agze pistons is a solid engine for turbo.
I don't do that much turbo stuff as its too easy, and if want to push power limits it just becomes a money pit of broken stuff. In saying that, I have almost collected enough junk and hand me down parts, to cobble together another turbo engine for the hilux. It wont be a big hp build. think big revs and massive powerband.
@@Garage4age are normal bluetop big port rods okay for boost as long as it's kept at reasonable levels with 4agze pistons in your experience
@@Garage4agefrom what i know that the st is gze rods but the pistons are high cr if proper tuning with pump fuel how much boost you think it can handle ? Or how much hp ?… is the compression the problem or the piston’s can’t take 270~hp because there are 2mm headgaskets that lower compression to about 9.6:1
@@inaNis_ cant run run ze pistons on bluetop rods. different pin size. Ive never bothered with the 3rib bluetop bottom ends. have seen people run then on low ish boost without much drama. but best to run the 7rib for boost. toyota basically beefed them up when the 4agze come out, the na stuff got all the same parts other than pistons. so redtop bigport to silvertop same as ze bottom end with different pistons
@@marlo0oty213 yeah the na engines of same year have the same rods as the 4agze. maybe a few anomalys but basically how it works. stock compression will probably run into knock issues depending what you call pump gas, before you get to the limit of what the pistons can hold. also any knock at that level will end them pretty quick. swap to 8.9 ze pistons is the way to go
Nice man, would be interesting to know what the two header pipe sizes were that you tested.
Also why do you think the megaphones restricted higher up in the rev range?
38 & 44.5mm tube. they both have a smaller stepped section out of the head as you can probably see. the rusty megaphone pipe i show in the video and tested off cam, didn't drop top end like the new oval one. i loosely based new one off the area of the round rusty one. i wasn't really sure if it would translate over to the oval shape with area alone. basically need to try more variations to find the best compromise. look to be in the ballpark though
@@Garage4age, If you are willing to share, what is the average length of the tube before the merge ? (I'm guessing they arer all within a few cm)
@@Garage4agecool thanks for the info. You should try adjusting your exhaust cam timing with the megaphone, it might help.
Would you say this is your most powerful setup/combination of parts? If not it would be nice to see a video where you go for max power build based on all the best combos and parts from all testing....
@@matthewbussy Yeah this is best over all power. best engine has done is 168kw. (166kw here) But thats just the dyno, The sae correction overcompensates a bit on this car. so cold/high pressure days will read less power than hot/low pressure days. (yeah ive done way to many pulls with this car to figure that out) I can tell by the fuel map its making a touch more power than the 168kw runs. I was going to adjust the exhaust cam timing but ran out of time. will try next time its on dyno. It like the same cam timing on intake side.
@@Garage4age ok I see. Nice man that's amazing power.
Yeah regardless of what the Dyno reads out you can tell from the fuel map. More fuel = more power 💪 What fuel are you running?
If it is not an alcohol based fuel like ethanol or methanol, then you still have a lot more power and torque to unleash!
I'd choose the big header even if it did perform a lil wors. Just for the mean sound ❤
Love your channel and the knowledge provided !
Can you try connecting a header to a big pipe that has minimum of 2x volume of the engine and on the back end it gradually reduces diameter to 60mm or what ever diameter of pipe you are using?
like this ? ruclips.net/video/32DeM3-ogGw/видео.html
What are the complete mods on the engine now? Can we find a list on the website?
You'll find a spec list in description, of the engine being tested in all my vids
did u notice a difference in AFR from switching between headers?
pretty much follows the difference in power yeah.
How About TRI-Y 4-2-2-1 Header
You should see the difference between big and small headers with just an 18inch extension pipe haha
Wanna hear this straight piped so bad
😮 wow big difference I love it also if anyone knows who do headers TB and IG for 5efe let me know I want to get more HP on mine Im playing with apexi and the car can't perform no more power😂
What diameter is small
And what is big?
38mm 44.5mm od tube
Forget about the megaphone. I spent my early years on 2 strokes. Unless your will to keep it in a tight rpm they do as much harm as good.
did you watch the video? 2 stroke is a totally different box of frogs
@@Garage4age I did .. all I saw was a saw tooth pattern.. as it come on and off the megaphone.. like I said don't waste your time.
@@slug.racing You are in the wrong gear if you are wide open down at those rpm.
It seems, that megaphone works as termination box. I m planning to making megaphone, but now reconsidering it.
Because it works, and gained the same as termination box. My 7AFE got additional 4.8-6.3 HP from termination box. Same AFR, pipe and Cam.
by termination box. do you mean a big open chamber?
@@Garage4age it 's not like open chamber. It 's like bigger size of stock resonator, but without perforated pipe and glasspack. Mostly the volume of termination box 8 to 10 times volume of 1 cylinder engine. The final volume, Depend on peak power or peak torque, we tuned.
I think you just described a big open chamber 😅Thanks for the terminology I have been wondering about those
@@Bigelboe probably it's open chamber. For my understanding. Open chamber more likely one end is open to atmosphere.
I tuned termination box to make more power @ 5700 to 5900 rpm. It helps alot. since I m using c160 transmission, every shift, would make the engine rpm drop to 5700-5900 area. So it cut some sub second. Now it run 0-100 kph around 9.3 to 9.4 s. Without termination box almost touch 9.8-9.9 s.
7age is a old school mod now, not surprised it died
Amazing trip! The police here are crazy about speeding, our society deals with a lot more serious crime in a huge scale, recently, that the police admittedly can't handle, but they sure manage to hand out speeding tickets, hahaha. They just raised the fines for speeding even more in 2024.