Ancestral Possession & Other Memory | Lila's Agony Explained | DUNE Prophecy

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  • Опубликовано: 3 дек 2024

Комментарии • 111

  • @NerdCookies
    @NerdCookies  6 дней назад +12

    Thanks for watching! If you enjoyed the video, be sure to leave a LIKE! To further support the channel you can join my Patreon for exclusive content and perks! www.patreon.com/nerdcookies

  • @SameerAli-qw1hn
    @SameerAli-qw1hn 6 дней назад +36

    Your videos have been especially therapeutic for me. You, Quinn, Alt Shift X, Secrets of Dune are real heroes of Dune Saga. Thank you so much.

  • @henrymach
    @henrymach 6 дней назад +19

    I'm liking the show so far (two episodes). Some people say it's slow and boring but I don't think so as I usually like slow burn shows. The second episode wasn't slow at all

  • @GamerplayerWT
    @GamerplayerWT 6 дней назад +16

    Lila’s experience was spot-on for me. Loved, loved, loved this creepy and feral environment.

  • @jshooper7819
    @jshooper7819 6 дней назад +13

    Episode 2 of the show was really interesting. I'm invested in this show now!

  • @JezzaBondiBeach
    @JezzaBondiBeach 6 дней назад +12

    I’m really enjoying this series so far. Much better than I thought it would be 🐛 🏄🏼‍♂️

  • @kdog3908
    @kdog3908 6 дней назад +14

    The description of Murbella's Spice Agony in "Chapterhouse" was highly illuminating. Well worth the read, or re read if it's been a while.

  • @st.anselmsfire3547
    @st.anselmsfire3547 6 дней назад +9

    This is probably the best way to show how genetic memory works in this interpretation, since Dune: Messiah is going to be one movie and they won't really be able to delve too deep into the weird council that Alia has in her head (led by her grandpa, Baron Harkonen) and how Paul's ancestors all talk to him very well.
    It'll be especially important if they intend to make Children of Dune and God-Emperor of Dune into series like Dune Prophecy, because Leto II having a vast council of his ancestors is a key plot point in both books. This is also the best way to show that Leto II is more or less possessed by Paul and an ancient Egyptian Pharaoh.

  • @theogriffin7132
    @theogriffin7132 6 дней назад +7

    I'm so glad we're getting more Dune stories on a big budget TV! Because you and the people in the comment section on these videos that give much needed context, theorization, and reading recommendations!! The 2020's are shaping up to be a wondrous time for Dune fans!

  • @Paul_McSeol
    @Paul_McSeol 6 дней назад +10

    While I’m not a huge fan of Brian’s books, I think the show is doing a pretty good job. Loved the Agony scene. Hoping we see some more cool stuff before the end (just let me see a navigator or a bene tleilax).

    • @brianstiles1701
      @brianstiles1701 6 дней назад +1

      I think we won't see a Navigator till Messiah out of respect for DV

  • @shanenolan5625
    @shanenolan5625 6 дней назад +20

    The books also say that sisters are usually in their 30s , a character in their 20s , is said to be the youngest reverend mother ever , ( chapterhouse)

  • @Drpenguin1009
    @Drpenguin1009 6 дней назад +8

    I think this show is a real mixed bag. For every inspired concept or interesting portrayal there’s a cringe moment or Brian Herbert Lore tidbit. I think the overall success of the season will depend on where a few of these key ideas (tiran arafel, abomination, desmond harts powers) are going

  • @williamcolgin1987
    @williamcolgin1987 6 дней назад +8

    I liked the way the Agony was portrayed on screen, but not the fact that the ego memory of Dorotea had knowledge of her own murder. Genetic memories can't have knowledge of anything past the conception of their progeny let alone their own deaths. Also, Mother Superior Raquella's genetic memory wouldn't have any knowledge of the "Tiran-Arafel" since she had that vision on her death bed.

    • @ianmccourry9337
      @ianmccourry9337 6 дней назад +3

      Frank went back and forth on this. iirc there were several times where characters saw stuff post death in their other memories

    • @DarthPlato
      @DarthPlato 6 дней назад

      @@ianmccourry9337 I wouldn't compare Lile's experience to anything involving the Atreides or the BG of book five and six. The series is absolutely botching how the OM works.

    • @wolfbane7497
      @wolfbane7497 19 часов назад

      I can only imagine what Paul and Leto and ghanima saw in their other memories

  • @kcroswell3638
    @kcroswell3638 6 дней назад +1

    Good video, I’m familiar with the Dune world, and your videos help me explain things too, my daughter, thanks for that, and keep up the good work

  • @shanenolan5625
    @shanenolan5625 6 дней назад +5

    Thanks Elaine, I remember in heretics, a character gets shot , lost a leg and part of her hip and an arm , she thinks the pain is bad but not as bad as the agony,

    • @kdog3908
      @kdog3908 6 дней назад +4

      Alma Mavis Taraza, iirc. She was 'Mother Superior' in 'Heretics'.

    • @shanenolan5625
      @shanenolan5625 6 дней назад

      @kdog3908 exactly, I only remember teraza, , in chapterhouse they said she 2as the greatest mother superior they ever had ,

    • @KentoLeoDragon
      @KentoLeoDragon 6 дней назад +3

      I remember a Reverend Mother getting caught by a Shigawire and sliced in half. I believe she used her control over her body to shut off pain and blood flow. It's basically impossible to torture information out of a RM. They can also stop their own heart if they thought they couldn't withstand the torture or interrogation method.

    • @shanenolan5625
      @shanenolan5625 6 дней назад

      @KentoLeoDragon yes

    • @DarthPlato
      @DarthPlato 6 дней назад

      You're talking 15,000 years years after Dune Prophesy there -- the BG of the book 5/6 era are very different from the pre-BG Sisters of prophesy.

  • @12daasdf
    @12daasdf 5 дней назад

    100% agree! I really appreciated how they showed what happens during the Agony! Great take!

  • @DarthMalaks_Missing_Lower_Jaw
    @DarthMalaks_Missing_Lower_Jaw 4 дня назад +1

    Is there a difference between what Lila went through and what Jessica went through? Seems similar but Jessica unlocked the memories of previous reverend mothers, not just her family members. I assume that over the 10,000+ years and tens of thousands of generations of BG, they learned to unlock the memories of previous reverend mothers as well.

  • @Cappellano
    @Cappellano 6 дней назад +1

    Over the years I have become more convinced that the “ancestors” may not be what they claim to be. Since there is no real way to verify who or what they are, it is strange that people would take them at face value. The existence of the sandstorms and their relationship with the sandstorms indicates something “other” is involved.

  • @tomambrosio5527
    @tomambrosio5527 5 дней назад

    Great as always

  • @crimnvL
    @crimnvL 6 дней назад

    hey nerdie thank you for making more videos on dune,big fan of u, quinn and altshiftx

  • @michaelallen434
    @michaelallen434 6 дней назад +1

    I like the show. It’s very different than the sisterhood book but not necessarily in a bad way. I like the dynamics of the emperor and empress. I’m also a fan of anything Emily Watson does so it’ll be interesting to see what the show does.

  • @jonarrolovsson9580
    @jonarrolovsson9580 6 дней назад +2

    Say what you want about the show but i like how they explored more of the unique dune stuff like other memory

  • @WHR17
    @WHR17 4 дня назад

    I loved the way they made the agony such a nightmarish experience. All those ancestors clamoring to be in control. No wonder so many fail the test!!!

  • @hamdinger7145
    @hamdinger7145 6 дней назад +1

    This is a great show

  • @EternalStarVoyager
    @EternalStarVoyager 6 дней назад +2

    Now I'm gonna sound like a prude old man but I thought the sex-to-story ratio was off in this episode.

  • @dinafisher199
    @dinafisher199 5 дней назад

    Despite your initial cynicism, I really enjoyed this video ❤ I'll have to check out your other videos. I loved that feral environment to show why the sisters normally need so much training before attempting it

  • @bobokin5815
    @bobokin5815 6 дней назад +4

    My question with other memory is how much of a persons life experiences are transmitted to their children? In the case of Lila in the new series how could she have dorotheas memory of death if dorotheas genetic memory was transmitted only when she had children? How can the memories “update” after someones birth to include the rest of their ancestors lives after they have reproduced ? I understand leto II having the guidance of his fathers prescience along with his own but is that the case with dorothea? Assuming dorothea did not have children after her death how could her ego memory within lila recall her own death?

    • @NameNotAChannel
      @NameNotAChannel 6 дней назад

      There is a thought of a greater collective consciousness in the books, an overall "terrible purpose" that moved behind the scenes to influence events toward certain ends. So, in FH's Dune universe, having access to your genetic ancestry was like have a genetic key to unlock those specific people's disassociated personalities in that collective... I guess. I'm not entirely clear on this point either, and it makes sense that they'd only have the genetic memories up until the time of their birth, at each step along the ancestral chain. This is why I believe it's connected to this more ethereal concept that isn't really given clarity in the books.
      (I'd have to re-read the series with the goal of pinpointing details and glimpses into this subject to give a list of sources for my reasoning... suffice to say, I'm not doing that, and I'm not dying on this hill either. That's just my impression from memory of listening to the series about 3 times, once before DV's movies, and 2x after.)

    • @SweetandFullofGrace
      @SweetandFullofGrace 6 дней назад

      Probably most important question in comments. I am trying to think of an example, but I cant, at minimum you would need 2 reverend mothers with physical contact to transfer
      memories. They made Dune into a "magic show" and clearly they dont understand Dune or Scifi of Dune, but as most things people dont really care if its "cool".

    • @DarthPlato
      @DarthPlato 6 дней назад

      Your concern is correct -- Lile should not have experienced it like that. And Lile's mother would be there, regardless of whether the mother was still living or not. And don't compare the people of this era to what Paul, Leto II, etc, can do in the future, because they are exceptions to how things worked in the distant future.

    • @bobokin5815
      @bobokin5815 6 дней назад

      @@DarthPlato this problem has been bugging me since monday when the episode came out it would only make sense either if dorothea was prescient or if she had children after death and as those two are impossible i was stumped and was wondering if anyone else thought of this. thanks for the reply

    • @bobokin5815
      @bobokin5815 6 дней назад

      @@NameNotAChannel I had thought about the ego memories somehow communicating with eachother to plug the holes in each others memories sort of like you have explained but how could that collective consciousness know that it was valya harkonnen that used the voice on dorothea to make her die, isnt that somewhat of a secret in the show? From my understanding no one else is capable of using the voice except for valya and i assumed people simply believed that dorothea had killed herself and did not know that valya was behind dorotheas death (this was my own interpretation of the show i may be wrong). If my interpretation is correct how could the collective consciousness inside lila know of this secret if almost all of the bene gesserit sisters dont know it? This show is confusing, I have read the books (although a few years ago) and seen the Villeneuve adaptations and never had a problem like this that was so blatantly enigmatic and unexplained. thanks for your reply!

  • @champisthebunny6003
    @champisthebunny6003 6 дней назад +3

    The real horror and agony- modern remakes and reimagining+everything ever written by brian anderson and franks far less creative son.

  • @jake_edinburgh
    @jake_edinburgh 6 дней назад

    The agony sequence was my favourite part of the episode.

  • @maxtran7441
    @maxtran7441 6 дней назад

    Thank you for the video.

  • @JohnJ-p7o
    @JohnJ-p7o 4 дня назад

    Exactly right about the pleasure to see the Bene Gesserit possession . Alia in children was kind of weird possession.

  • @shannonmcstormy5021
    @shannonmcstormy5021 4 дня назад

    My issue with the ancestral memories is that anything after the event of a birth shouldn’t be contained in the personalities/memory. So, any Baron Harkonnen memories past the rape which led to Jessica’s birth, have no way of being part of the Baron’s personality in Alia Atreides’ mind. Herbert tried hard to find non-supernatural non-magic explanations for everyone’s various powers/abilities.

  • @gerardojg
    @gerardojg 6 дней назад

    I did enjoy the spice agony scene. However, I focus on the relationships of the characters. The moment Dorotea possessed Lila and took her revenge. Spooky. I could see the shock and injury it did to Mother Tula. I'm eager for episode 3. I really hope Lila doesn't die.

  • @Babysteps1000
    @Babysteps1000 15 часов назад

    Love your videos. I’ve always been fascinated by the Agony, and how “other memory” floods in.. But what always confused me, and if you’ve done a video on it, please share a link, but if women could only access female line memories, why could Alia access Vladimir Harkonnen? Was it because she was so raw and open in the womb when she was flooded? Even so, her flooding should have been all female, with one female wanting to take over, but it’s a male, her grandfather? I never understood it, but it’s great storytelling

  • @Sam_T2000
    @Sam_T2000 6 дней назад

    _Dune, Part 2_ should’ve been two movies in itself, making the story of the first book a whole trilogy… with the second part ending with Paul drinking the Water of Life, and having a sort of vision walkabout quest like “the Agony,” learning about the future and his mother’s Harkonnen ancestry, etc 🤙

  • @johndevillier2852
    @johndevillier2852 Час назад

    The visuals remind me of The Tyrant’s crypt…🖖🏽

  • @marknovak6498
    @marknovak6498 6 дней назад

    I have a great way of explaining why some reverent mothers may die in spice agony and why a male with their memories may be more subject to failure.

  • @trikyy7238
    @trikyy7238 6 дней назад

    Somewhere in Finland, Tuula Härkönen is totally oblivious of all things Dune.

  • @NameNotAChannel
    @NameNotAChannel 6 дней назад

    There's one additional point I'd make... but... SPOILERS...
    Ghanima didn't just have Chani helping her. In the plot of the two children, to fool people into thinking LetoII was dead, she walled off that part of her that remembered the truth, creating a garden of self that could only be unlocked with the phrase "golden path".
    This walled off garden gave her a place to retreat to, and protect her sense of "self" when assaulted by the other memory flooding her mind.
    She regretted that she was unable to share this method of avoiding abomination with Alia, even as Alia was ending things - it wasn't yet too late to save her.
    Paul's method was considered "technically" abomination, but very controlled and he kept his sense of self... so it wasn't a typical abomination situation.

  • @michaelpipkin9942
    @michaelpipkin9942 6 дней назад

    I'm locked in. The agony was a cool scene, and I didn't think that girl could act, but that agony scene was frightening.
    Who are the face dancers again, do they exist yet?

  • @robertfrost1683
    @robertfrost1683 6 дней назад

    Very good

  • @mxvega1097
    @mxvega1097 6 дней назад

    I'm not a major book nerd, but the portrayal of Lila's agony left me wondering: how is anyone supposed to derive sense and meaning out of this desperate striving of the dead? The avatars of the ancestors seem still possessed of ego, will, memory, and intention, some of it not constructive or friendly, so is this just an early experimental phase? How do they make sense of the messages, or trust the speaker? What if the avatars can mislead?

  • @johncnorris
    @johncnorris 6 дней назад

    Considering how long it took them to produce and release the first season I think they are doing a decent job. Also, with only 6 episodes they can't delve into every aspect of Frank Herbert's universe.

  • @GadZookz
    @GadZookz 6 дней назад

    Once you know it happened to me, possessed by ancestral memory. I was possessed by a frog named Doug but all he said was Ugg!

  • @b1bbscraz3y
    @b1bbscraz3y 6 дней назад

    Fresh nerd cookies baked

  • @KeyboardGeneration
    @KeyboardGeneration 6 дней назад

    I never understood how Alia, Paul's sister, was able to access the genetic memories of her grandfather when the sisterhood could not access the male side of their ancestors. Does this mean that Alia was a Kwisatz Haderach too? Am I missing something?

  • @aidanwatson910
    @aidanwatson910 4 дня назад

    “Babe, come quick. I’m making that really dumb comment other people think is cute but it’s just stupid.”

  • @NameNotAChannel
    @NameNotAChannel 6 дней назад

    I will give this show credit on this scene.
    However, I highly doubt DV will run with this at all.
    At best, we'll see Paul seeing through other eyes in one particular scene. (trying to remain spoiler free...)

  • @brianm3160
    @brianm3160 5 дней назад

    Now imagine Alia’s situación

  • @RC-gg4xs
    @RC-gg4xs 6 дней назад

    I bit confused with the Dorothea and Lila timeline. Should the Dorothea in her memories, have the memory of being killed?

  • @jaguarazul
    @jaguarazul 4 дня назад

    👏👏👏

  • @doloresabernathy9809
    @doloresabernathy9809 5 дней назад

    I know this is science fantasy not hard sci-fi …but…it bugs me that memories of things that happened after the ancestor conceived a child would somehow be in the “genetic memory.” I don’t think Herbert intended that … but this show interprets the genetic memory as plain old spirits with knowledge of events up to their death. Obviously post conception information cannot be passed down genetically to a descendant. So the show is presenting plain old spiritualism that is fallaciously called genetic memory. I don’t think Herbert meant that mistake. It seems the writers did not understand the term “genetic” or just sacrificed logic and consistency in the world of the story to a plot device. If someone thinks that post conception memory was intended by Herbert please note why in a comment. I could have missed that.

  • @kenaustinardenol1338
    @kenaustinardenol1338 6 дней назад

    There was one little detail that bothered me. Because Lila, and other sisters, have a cellular memory of their encestors from the point of birth I guess, why were all the ghosts in her mind so misformed?

  • @ANNA.COWGILL.ILLINOIS
    @ANNA.COWGILL.ILLINOIS 4 часа назад

    Those dead mothers are real muthers!😂

  • @sunol1212
    @sunol1212 6 дней назад +1

    Frustrated and off-put. Yep, that's me too. I'll try to keep watching, because Dune, but issues like the role of an Atreides sword master in a rebellion against House Corino make me want to drop it.

  • @wolfbane7497
    @wolfbane7497 19 часов назад

    Now after seeing other memory in live action I can only imagine what Paul witness on his male ancestry line Jesus Christ

  • @joshuatabor8755
    @joshuatabor8755 6 дней назад +1

    One of the few scenes i thought was done really well. Not looking forqard to the 3rd movie after the garbage 2nd movie

  • @beauhancock4922
    @beauhancock4922 6 дней назад

    Yeah, i have found myself yet again completely unable to form words..... i just wanna go spamming the internet with memes about characters caring about lore and another character just saying "F the Lore"...... so many ways, so many possibilities.............

  • @johndevillier2852
    @johndevillier2852 Час назад

    🥰🖖🏽

  • @mike4999
    @mike4999 5 дней назад +1

    This show would be better without the game of thronesesque sex scenes .... unnecessary

  • @agesflow6815
    @agesflow6815 6 дней назад

    Thank you, Nerd Cookies.

  • @antcow1239
    @antcow1239 6 дней назад +1

    If men were in the bene gisseret from the start, they would have had the same abilities and other memory from both their male and female lines.
    But the Gisseret fell prey to greed and didnt want to share power.
    Hell the instant Paul came to understand his power he was instantly out of their control.
    That was probably the other reason they didn't want to share their skills, it would have made them subservient overnight.
    But thats my take.

    • @SweetandFullofGrace
      @SweetandFullofGrace 6 дней назад +2

      Every man before Paul who took the water of life, died. It was never about sharing btw it was about control, there are no "good guys" per say in Dune, well I guess Duncan.

    • @antcow1239
      @antcow1239 6 дней назад

      @@SweetandFullofGrace Oh i get that part, but were these men trained or just some rando's to be experimented on?
      Its a bit late to ask for context, this story is decades finished at this point but i like to think there was room to flex

    • @SweetandFullofGrace
      @SweetandFullofGrace 6 дней назад +2

      @@antcow1239 I am not actually sure, but I would guess that some thought they found their Kwizsatz Haderach earlier and tried it on men others might just experiments, pretty sure they were up to no good nevertheless.

    • @NeilsonBuntowa
      @NeilsonBuntowa 6 дней назад

      For 10,000 years they must have experimented with countless possible kwazi hatarck but each of them failed and died or turn out to be out of control that sisterhood decided to cancel him for good.

    • @SweetandFullofGrace
      @SweetandFullofGrace 6 дней назад

      @@NeilsonBuntowa "Cancel him" LOL, I know what you meant but it was funny. I just pictured them canceling him on Empires social media.

  • @Shamino1
    @Shamino1 5 дней назад

    It felt more like they wanted an American Horror Story moment, rather than taking advantage of the opportunity to demonstrate just how different the Bene Gesserit are when compared to our contemporary understanding of politics, power, and their relationship with them. I expected the acolyte to be reciting some Fear Is The Mind Killer, or a prototype of such a phrase. I expected a great deal of ceremony combined with what should have appeared to be an elaborate mix of science and alchemy- the sensible, and the illogical, all at once. Instead we get an homage to Soderberg's 'The Knick' without any of the gravitas. Why is the grandmother, not the mother, the most powerful of the genetic memories? Why is there not an internal struggle among all the others? Why is it implied to the viewer that a single genetic memory-strain can cause death, when in actuality its the failure to control her body chemistry? Why is the manipulation of body-chemistry not told to the audience or shown to us beforehand, to set up the a) possibility of its success, b) The possible consequences of its failure, and why not show off it with c) A procedure a little bit more exotic and esoteric than stirring blue food-colouring into some Welch's grape-juice and blotting an eyeball while saying "remember to breathe?"

  • @michaelpipkin9942
    @michaelpipkin9942 6 дней назад

    Couldn't she have possessed her and done more damage?
    At least make her a better actress......

  • @banzaibadger
    @banzaibadger 6 дней назад +7

    I lost interest in the series after episode one, so I won't be following it anymore.

    • @wiinterflowers4277
      @wiinterflowers4277 6 дней назад +4

      Same here.

    • @GamerplayerWT
      @GamerplayerWT 6 дней назад +12

      Your loss.

    • @GamerplayerWT
      @GamerplayerWT 6 дней назад

      @@wiinterflowers4277your loss

    • @wiinterflowers4277
      @wiinterflowers4277 6 дней назад

      @@GamerplayerWT Well forgive me if I don't wanna see a group of slutty space witches do disgusting shit like grooming little boys. Fuck feminism!

    • @JezzaBondiBeach
      @JezzaBondiBeach 6 дней назад +9

      Your loss ! Episode 2 was GREAT 👍🏼

  • @SFBAY10
    @SFBAY10 6 дней назад

    you are too hard on the Dune movie and TV adaptations....