@Infected Ghost she could've talked to the White Lady and ask her to tell the king she was being forgotten, and can they make her a God again too? She could have found a new kingdom. She could have attacked the Pale King directly. All im saying is, she had a lot if options.
@Infected Ghost I know this is late, but while your point about the White Lady stands, The king let Unn do her thing in Greenpath, so I don't think he would've been opposed to (only) the Moths worshipping The Radiance. Plus, the King came from another land, as did something called the Blackwyrm, so Radiance should be able to find a new kingdom to rule.
@Infected Ghost What are mosquitoes supposed to do but suck blood? It’s in their nature and they don’t have a choice, but that doesn’t make them any less of a bitch lol
@@ziimulhah3223 Or the Radiance could just make more followers instead of throwing a hissy fit on her first rejection in Wyrm-know how many years. The Moths are literally her own children, but they turn their backs on their mother when they realized the world is much bigger than what they were taught.
@Infected Ghost There is no "payback" to be had. The moth tribe willingly turned to the king as their god. The Radience acted out of anger that her creations turned their back on her. Like someone said earlier, PK let the bugs of Greenpath continue worshipping Unn, PK probably had no objection to the moth tribe worshipping The Radience. It's not PK's fault that Radience had a temper tantrum.
I love this dude. Instead of saying: “Oh yEa He’s a vIllAin” he completely defends the pale king witch other people should do. So I clap you you in vessel **Claps in vessel**
I agree with everyone that he was a good guy. The villain's wiki page said he's there for killing his kids and pissing off the radiance. even though radiance's a paganist god who murdered everyone.
Doesn’t make it any less of a sacrifice tho. Pk basically bargained off a child and some of his honor, and the White Lady was ok with it because she knew it was for the kingdom.
The problem is this nobody is absulotely right or wrong of higher beings like pale king doing such bad things for a good reason and radiance just getting angry cuz of pale kings selfishness on sharing a kingdom but being bad at the end.
The radiance in some ways is just as bad, if not worse than the pale king in some ways. Enslaving thousands of innocent bugs that still have some sentience and knowledge of their slavery, not for the greater good (like the pale king) but out of jealously is inexcusable. Look at what happened to Myla! Soul Master did a similar thing in order to obtain immortality as well, but everyone seems to gloss over that.
@@Drekromancer Grimm himself is enslaved under the Nightmare Heart, which is probably only concerned in feeding itself and growing in power. So yeah, a devourer of kingdoms doesn't' sound that great. And also the constant romanticism of Grimm is kind of sickening.
@@FirstnameLastname-sb3hj Not exactly. The only way to truly destroy the radiance is by having everyone forget about it, or through the shades use of void. Neither of which the Pale King can pull off.
@@FirstnameLastname-sb3hj Even if it was possible for him to do so, which we don’t really have any indication of it being so, I don’t think the Pale King would have won that fight.
@@FirstnameLastname-sb3hj I don’t think so - The Radiance primarily exists on a different plain of existence (the dreamworld) which is why the infection was so hard to contain in the first place. It seems like the only way to truly kill her is by the unified Void (which The Radiance mentions it being her nemesis or greatest enemy if you dream nail her during the fight) which the Pale King couldn’t so. But, his children - who are part void, could do this, which is why The Knight is able to kill her. I’m assuming The Pale King didn’t figure this out before he died despite his studies and experiments with the void.
Sly, Bretta, every bug in Hollownest, bugs who got turned to walking orange bombs, the literal dead, Deepnest, Unn's followers who was never involved with PK in the first place...
I’m surprised you didn’t mention the fact that the white lady literally said to not blame the pale king for the vessel thing She said he had great shame
I think Pale King knew that everyone would hate him for what he had to sacrifice... but he did it anyway. Because even if the bugs of Hallownest hated him or imprisoned him. He would still be happy they were alive.
I may meme on and make fun of the Pale King, but I knew he tried his best and cared for his kingdom. Plus I would never believe Radiance was a victim. I would never be on her side, especially after Pantheon of Hallownest.
@@Awfulturtle When? The only we knows about is the Hollow Knight, which he took in and knight Bugs with Radience also still move, so how can you tell if something have sentience? For all Pale King knew, bugs under his jurisdiction were able to do their own thing, because he let them to, Mantis also had emotions, but in Hive, or Mushrooms, do they have emotions, or just follows whatever is told to them?
The Pale King wasn't inherent evil. He did bad things, true, but had good intentions and sacrificed everything he had to save his people who chose him over the Radiance. And while I'm still mad about the saws and spikes, that's a minor inconvenience, considering what Radi does 😂
@@mightycow231 Not really, It was at first, But now whenever I see some meme complaining and going on and on about the pale kings addiction to them I honestly, actually, have to resist the urge to vomit all over my phone
I see the buzz saws as the PK's reflection of his stress, mental anxiety and guilt. It's white, sharp, loud to the ears and hurts so much you would rather run away than confront it. Effectively trapping him in his own head space until he just decays from his own build up stress with no intervention. He probably knows this and accept this as possible retribution to what he had done. I mean, he just sits there on his throne like he accepts the darkness to take his life. He's a smart guy, he practically kickstarted the bug industrial age, so he is very much aware that his days are numbered when he started working with Void, which to a light-based creature, is as comparable as holding sentient radium with your bare hands. This guy suffered from extreme mental stress, anxiety, suicidal thoughts and we just make fun of it like it's a sick joke. It is ridiculously unhealthy and can possibly actually happen to people with huge responsibilities to bear, especially when lives are on the line.
Well and people generally don't look at authoritative figures as such. They generally go "well I'd never do that." And disregard the sacrifices and selflessness that is required of a ruler. The general population isn't going to look at such actions as that of a being of higher thought. So generally the gravity of the situation from that singular perspective (the king's perspective) is ignored or never truly touched on. So the large amount of hatred against the pale king is mostly coming from people who have never dealt with the greater responsibility of taking care of other's over one self, or they are thinking too much in their own shoes. Just my opinion.
I didn't hate pale king other than white palace is literal hell also if you think it that way, path of pain making so much sence. maybe how his memory with hk is there because it's really painful for him to sacrifice all of his children
@@lucidmelon3599and also perhaps it's the Pale King realizing it's his fault that his plan failed. That his inability to not show love for his child is what ended up dooming his kingdom and it's citizens. The one time in awhile that he chose to be selfish and do something for himself, getting to be a father, it ends up causing the outcome he was trying to prevent
I’m assuming the thorns must be the obstacle forever locking all those negative thoughts together too, then? Trauma? Thorns can be used for protection. Trauma never fades, but it can be pushed away. Concealed so no one can find it, and it bides its time, growing ever stronger as it’s left unattended, like thorns. Also, you can only move on from trauma if you face it. It’s difficult, just like traversing thorns.
Even though Ive listened to too much Hollow Knight content I never saw him as a villain or bad. I kind of understand him although damn thats terrible u really did that to your kids-
My best argument in defense of the pale king is “what would YOU do in that situation?” He was born a wyrm (born to create kingdoms), and took power over every bug in Hallownest fairly because he gave them a mind, he didn’t ruin the economy in any way, and if you were the pale king, you wouldn’t want to risk your own life because of a foe that you had already kinda defeated.
I actually think the Pale King realized he couldn't beat the Radiance, at least without massive damage to himself or his kingdom in such a way that may doom his citizens. The only reason our Knight could defeat Radiance was because of the Voidheart allowing it to have the entire power of the void to defeat the Radiance
I honestly think it's unfair how the fandom threats the Pale King. We didn't even get to interact with him personnally ; (so we don't know how exactly he would behave). A lot of people make the Pale King as the child murdering playboy buzzsaw maniac bad guy while the White Lady is represented as the sweet loving mother figure who couldn't stand sacrificing her children while it is shown how cold, distant and how she really was willing to make that sacrifice in her own way (she doesn't even call the vessels her children but rather her spawn). In my opinion both PK and WL have good and bad attributes to them and they both must have suffered as much in their own way. The decline of Hallownest and the decisions taken to ensure its preservation during the panic obviously had a negative impact on their relationship but yet both were willing to sacrifice their children, (a part of) themselve in order to save it despite the weight of this responsibility.
i mean she's a god, of course she's gonna treat her children differently than mortals, especially when they're basically zombies now, her affection for hornet is enough proof that she's good-hearted and so is her self-imprisonment and probable self-weakening as punishment i do think opinions on the king are a bit overblown as his actions have reason to a point but people are still largely correct i think he's the guy whose power and influence went to his head by the end, when he huddled up in a corner and died hidden away in his solitary palace
I see Hollow Knight as a tragedy. The king and queen were good people genuinely trying to do good things, but ironically couldn't make their plan work. Most notably, the King loved the Hollow Knight too much to distance himself to keep him truly hollow. Only a heartless monster could do that. ...Oh wait, you're right, that doesn't make any sense at all does it lol.
Fanon: Vessel: Dad! I made you a drawing! Pale King: You have emotion? Die. *-YEET-* Canon: Vessel: Dad! I made you a drawing! *Pale King: I'm sorry, little one.*
I like to think the I am sorry little one were the first, but by the 1 millionth child he became numb to It, My headcanon Is that he was good but all the things happening broke him
The main problem with this meme is that the Pale King didn't throw his children into the Abyss, they were born down there to soak in and become one with the void to become empty vessels to contain the Radiance, many just didn't survive the perilous climb up to the top.
morality is subjective, but a way to find out if someone is "evil" to me isn't to compare their actions to any moral codes, but is to see if their actions were for others/a greater purpose, or were entirely selfish. The king sacrificed everything for hallownest, so in my eyes, whether his actions were for better or for worse, his intentions were pure and he was no villain.
A bit late but to challenge your statement, historically, there were figures such as Robespierre with the ideology “the ends justify the means” I know it’s a bit off topic and for the most part, I agree with you
@@bierangtamen I think one of the key differences between people like Robespierre and the Pale King is that Robespierre had clear, obvious, better options morally. The Pale King’s solution was almost as drastic, but in contrast his only other real option was give up and let the Radiance win, in the process giving up the free will of every bug in the kingdom.
@@lonestarlibrarian1853 Good point and I completely agree; I have always been pro Pale King anyways I believe he had it hardest having to sacrifice everything he had
The fact that even though the Hollow knight knew of the fact that he basically murdered all of their siblings he still managed to make a familial bond with him, that’s amazing.
Honestly, the more I think about Pale King's character, the more I suspect Team Cherry might have changed some details during the development. Like, I think he was originally supposed to be a straight up villain, but later they leaned more into morally gray and tragic direction.
I remember there was this one fan comic that asked the question if the pale king even knew how many kids were born from the black egg, because he probably just waited for the first one to rise from the abyss and thought the others just succumbed to the void or werent born.
Yes. I also do like the Radiance, but she's a topic for another time. Despite all the things he did, I think he was a genuinely nice guy, just went about things the wrong way. Hence is why I really like his character.
@@flandera9965 Now that I'm stuck on Radiant AbsRad. I must agree with you on that. I don't hate Radiance as a whole (She'sa great boss and villain!), but dear god AbsRad can go die in the void.
Personally I don’t know if it can even be said he went about things in the wrong way. Did he have any other, less terrible options? None that we know of pretty sure, he seems to have had no idea the Radiance could be fought in dream, or killed at all. Also worth noting the path he took did work, eventually, even if not in the way he planned and too late to save the kingdom.
Technically having thousands of Void Vessels running around his kingdom would be extremely dangerous, I doubt the Pale King would want to have that situation given how deadly Void is, especially to Higher Beings. Sure he killed his kids, but they were also Void which is super dangerous to both himself and the residents of Hallownest. It was probably for the best that the siblings died, not good at all but it seems like a safer option :( Still though, poor siblings.
He kinda killed them before they became void, what with putting the eggs down in the void, the void killing them, and then kinda just, reanimating them I think (I’m not totally clear on this part)
It's interesting to see someone delve into the Pale King's perspective and intentions. I think the infanticide really sticks out as reprehensible, but at the same time, I've thought about this before and I don't think he really knew of any other option at that point. It's hard to 100% judge everything he did since we didn't see how it all went down, but I definitely don't think he was just a cold, heartless monster. Just a desperate wyrm ovo
I reckon when the PK is sacrificing the vessels in pursuit of creating the Hollow Knight through trial and error, he doesn't realise their potential for personhood, hence the difference between his willingness to sacrifice them, as opposed to the regular bugs of Hallownest. It's only later on, after he grows to care for HK, that he realises his mistake. Maybe WL and PK underestimate their own soulful natures, which is why they don't think their vessel-children are, or have the potential to be, people with agency and souls. Part of their character flaws. And maybe he dies of a broken heart, and WL survives by blocking out the idea of her vessels being her children, hence referring to them as 'spawn'. She shows ignorance of the outside world, not even realising her guardian is dead, and she is noted as limiting herself.
The thing about the ‘no cost too great’ dialogue in the white palace is that it could mean one of two things: It either means this is a belief that the pale king has, or it’s a belief he’s trying to convince himself of. And there’s real no way to know for sure which it is, but I’ll explain my own personal interpretation for anyone interested. Because of the ellipsis after this line of dialogue, I personally interpreted it as a belief he wanted to convince himself of. The ellipsis could also just mean there’s more to that line that we don’t see yet (which is true) but the ‘no cost too great’ dream nail dialogue in the white palace starts in the middle of that quote, and there’s no ellipsis preceding that line, which made it feel less like a placeholder for the rest of the quote and more like an intentional indicator of hesitation. I don’t think there’s an excuse to sacrificing hundreds of thousands of children, or bonding with one as your own son and then sending them to eternal torment in a prison of your own design, but I always thought it was something the pale king would never do again. I interpreted regret from his dialogue, I saw the scene where he seemed to bond with THK, and I don’t think he would do it again (Your own interpretation of his character and whether or not he would do something like this again is up to you, but that’s how I always saw it). That’s why I always hated the white lady so much more than PK. She asks you to go take THK’s place. Another offspring of hers, and she just doesn’t care about you at all. There’s not even anything left to save (although she possibly doesn’t know that). Maybe the pale king didn’t actually care either, that’s entirely possible, but at least we don’t have solid on-screen evidence of that from him. I’ve been told my interpretation of the white lady is harsh (and my interpretation of PK too forgiving), and that she locked herself away because she cared too much about not having any more vessel kids to let it happen again, and that she has ‘some shame’ for the part she played and I guess ‘some shame’ is enough for some folks, which is also a fair way of looking at it. But I have my own shitty mom who’s selfish and manipulative in the same way that the white lady is and I get tired of people portraying her as this perfect beautiful being when she’s just as shitty, if not more shitty, that PK. Sorry for the long tangent. Got a bit off-topic there. Great video, I love to see interpretations of characters that don’t necessarily follow the norm :)
The pale king's death was not a sacrifice he made for hallownest, but it instead was his resognation. Him submitting himself to death was not a part of the plan, and had no benefit to it, but was instead him admittong that he had no kingdom left to live for, and so he let the void take his life
on the RADIANCE side, at least he didn't yeet his children just cause he is a racist jerk to three kids his son befriended... (Thats right SPADE KING YOU JUST GOT *SHADE*)
Another thing is, is that it’s a somewhat common hc that any spawn of the Wyrm and the White Lady wouldn’t have survived anyway, and they both fully believed that the things that came out of the abyss were empty- at first.
Their children were hollowed out and replaced with void, so technically the children were stillborn before they even hatched out of the egg. It's kind of like a really harsh abortion.
I love this! No one talk about what the PK did to save Hallownest, only that he kill his kids to get it. But because of that, him killing his kids that the kingdom was save in first place. Thanks for making this friend!
I don't think you can assume that the PK physically pushed them off, they might've fell on their way up (just like the character you play) and he might've believed they were unfeeling. Perhaps a lot of them were stillborn, corrupted by the void to be born at all, only with their shell left. This is the world of bugs and the weak die, just like Hornet killed the greenpath vessel, I'm assuming they each have something drawing them to end the infection that gets them killed one way or another, and having an incompetent vessel stop the infection (like the hollow knight) would risk everything. I think the character you play as somehow got lucky with the dream nail and void heart. I don't think the pale king knew anything about it. If he did then what he did paid off, hallownest did get rid of the infection.
I really think the moth tribe fucked up. if they didnt betray the radiance she wouldn't have done what she did. the pale king cant control who chooses to follow him. he never said I want the moth tribe to follow me. the seer even states in her final last words to you, after u get 2400 essence, that you should forget about us amd stuff. pale kling was a murderer yes, but not really as bad as he seems. the tablet before the Abyss even states that it's full of regret.
Thanks for breaking the norm of straight up declaring the Pale King 👑 as "Evil-Doer". It was all in all a untimely tragedy. As the saying goes "Road to hell is paved by Good intentions "
This is a very good video, and I completely agree! I've never hated Pale King tbh. Sure he's not perfect, but he for sure isn't the villain of Hollownest.
Sincerely the Pale King could have just ran away when the infection started, if he was narsisistic enough to just want attencion he could have gotten it anywhere, but he didn't run away, and eventually died with his kingdom.
In lore, I think the reason it is covered in buzzsaws is because the buzzsaws and thorns covering the palace are manifestations of his grief and regret. We know that the Path of Pain is in fact a memory, not an actual physical part of the white palace. And that has an even higher concentration of buzzsaws and thorns, because it was his biggest regret and most shameful secret, in that even though he knew the HK wasn't truly hollow and had established a bond with them, he still sealed him away to try to save the kingdom.
I actually had thoughts about this, and my reason was because he wanted to seperate himself from the rest. He didn’t want anyone else to see him as he was ashamed of himself. He put all the saw blades to make sure no one could come to him. He even has guards to try and prevent people to both enter the white palace, his throne room, and his truth of having affection for Hollow. He doesn’t want others to be here, he wants others to forget him as he again is ashamed of what he did, what cost he paid.
This definitely helped me come around to Pale King and realize he wasn't that bad of a guy , of course not perfect but not as horrible as I had thought , enjoyed this lots
This is why the Pale King is one of my favorite characters. It takes masterful storytelling to have one of the best characters be someone you never even directly meet or speak to.
I'm in love with this video. When I played the game through the first couple of times and pieced the lore together before coming to the online fandom, I saw him as a King who sacrificied everything he loved so his citizens could prosper, but unfortunately failed in the process (though I'm not saying he's perfect- everything is grey, not black and white. He sacrificed how many children and ran away to isolation when his people were wondering where he'd gone). When I was met with "buzzsaw crazy selfish ruthless tyrant" after going online, I was genuinely shocked and confused. I'm glad there are other people who look at him wholistically instead of just saying he was awful. Because if he HAD succeeded in his plan, he would've most definitely been seen as the hero by the fandom.
@@tacobanana6538 he is more innocent than the others but he still could put an end to the cycle if he wanted to (correct me if I'm wrong tho, it's been awhile). he could've just not decided to put his child through what he went through and enslaving his child. I get the whole nightmare heart thing but grimm is at least partially to blame in my opinion
@@thefluffyaj4119 (this is long but at the same time I don't know how to crop it down without getting rid of the things I wanna say, so there's a tldr at the end) I somewhat doubt Grimm has as much will to do that as Brumm does, especially given how Brumm is perhaps the only/one of the few bugs to not be all that close in relation to the troupe, whilst Grimm literally holds both the troupe and the Heart in his hands. Grimm only serves for one purpose, same way the Knight serves even after all that they've been through (collosal of fools, being the last witness to quirrel...). As for the enslavement thing, I think of it the same way as a robot. The Grimm probably serves the king naturally, the same way the hive naturally serves the queen. Like, Grimm probably doesn't have a choice in not putting the Child through what he's been through because the idea of prolonging the heart is instilled into the child already. Plus, even if Grimm metaphorically did give the child a choice of rebellion, I can see it not working out well for both Grimm and the child given on how it needs the essence to grow and I'd suspect the Nightmare King wouldn't be at all pleased to hear that Grimm gave the child a sense of individuality. TLDR; Grimm nor Grimmchild can't rebel because they're naturally committed to the heart.
@@tacobanana6538 hmm, yea that makes sense! it's easy to apply human intellect and customs to these bugs because most of them have sentience. even if I'm literally a soon to be entomologist who plans on studying insects (and other arthropods) and their brains and all that for a living but yea, now that I think about, despite being near human levels of sentience, the bugs of hallownest seem to be influenced largely by instinct aswell. mr mushroom says it's in the wyrms nature to "pull kingdoms into it's thrall", same for the radiance is her unleashing a plague in a jealous fit of rage when her subjects are taken away is anything to go by. the white lady has a great instinct to breed, so much so that she has to physically restrain herself. many more bugs seem to be largely influenced by instinct aswell, these are just the most obvious examples. so I guess it makes sense that grimm, in a way, had to follow the nightmare heart. like the pale king had to have a kingdom, and the radiance had to have subjects aswell
@@chunkyspider8913 Yeah thing is we’re not talking about legality we’re talking about someone being driven to do something immoral by their own desperation to uphold something moral. This isn’t the gotcha you think it is
I have 2 favorite interpretations of the pale king 1 that he was truly a good person and took "no cost too great" to heart, after all, what's the lives of those who simply cannot feel, those who were designed not to, vs a kingdom of living breathing bugs, perhaps he thought that finding a "pure vessel' wouldn't be as hard as it was 2 that he was an absolute dickhead of the highest caliber and his arrogance came back to bite him in the ass in the end. exact opposite ends of the spectrum, one side sad and emotional, the other just really funny
I would've liked you to add Monomon's poem, the one that appears each time you start a savefile. It's a really good picture of all the good things the Pale King brought for the bugs and why they worshipped him. It also shows how he was the unifier of the territories of Hallownest, not the conqueror. (And the poem is one of my favourite quotes from the game, heck yeah).
A thing that I don't understand is why nobody remember the dialogue with bardoom (the big worm in the kingdom's edge) that says , refering to the pale king " why knowing the future if you can't change it" I can't find the exact dialogue but I know for sure that teh pale king already knew that he had to sacrifice many things to defeate the radiance, but he did it to give, for a "small" time , a mind to think. for me he is not evil, and he didn't like to sacrifice anything and anyone but he knew that one day we will defeat the radiance.
Everyone: Let me guess.. Your Kingdom? Pale King: It is, and it was beautiful. Hallownest was like most places, it has people and a thriving society. And when it faced imminent danger of larger scale i offered a solution. Everyone: Infanticide.. Pale King: But it had to be done, The Radiance can only affect bugs with emotions and ones that could dream. So i had to use my offsprings, corrupted by The Void to create the Perfect Vessel to take down the Radiance once and for all. They called me a Madman.. And what i predicted came to pass. Everyone: Congratulations, you're a prophet. Pale King: I'm a savior. Everyone: Who murdered thousands.. Pale King: I simply needed the Perfect Vessel for the job, and once that vessel eradicates the Radiance, the Infection would cease to exist, and i call that.. Mercy. Everyone: And then what.. Pale King: I'd finally rest, and stay in my hidden palace from shame of the atrocities that i've committed, wither away, as the people of my kingdom be free and prosper once again. The hardest choices require the strongest wills. Everyone: RRREEEEEEEEEE
Finally a person who has the same idea as me, I have seen many people say that he is a scoundrel or a villain, but I have never seen him like this through what I heard or saw in the game
To the Pale King's credit, he didn't force them all to obey his whim like the Radiance. The Mantises and Deepnest were able to stay independent, for the most part, albeit with the Mantises standing guard to make sure Deepnest doesn't get any funny ideas. He was more of a fool than malicious. Instead of looking for one perfect vessel, he should've formed an army with all of them. That's literally the Dream No More Ending. Take their combined might together and the Radiance is easily crushed.
Kinda late, but the opposite outcome would've been possible as well. Imagine if the Radiance began to take control of them. One after the other, with much greater ease than with the Hollow Knight, as these vessels would have a much more evident mind. And since infection makes you stronger, one infected vessel would be able to take care of several. Just think about how many times players have died to Broken Vessel. Overall, a fight between the Radiance and the Vessels would not end well for Hallownest.
People are too hard on the pale king sometimes, but people saying that the Radiance is the victim is ridiculous. The Radiance basically killed everybody because they weren't giving her attention like an awful brat, and the reason everybody worshipped the pale king instead of her is because he just treated them better.
ok so... this is my ranting ... (sorry for the typos) From my POV... its nonsense to say that the pale king is the villian, the Radiance is the actual villian... that's why it is the final final boss, everything that the Radiance did was to feed its own ego, none of the bugs had sentience nor will, and as you can see when forgotten crossroads gets infected there are some bugs that are REALLY covered on infection, like if they were trying to fight it and end up being consumed bc of its force, so i dont think that the radiance is good nor an innocent, it was also really jelous, AND YES the pale king did a lot of horrible things, but is the regret that him and the white lady felt/feel that lets you know about why he's not the villian, bc he knows that he did bad things, and no one that is good, its completly GOOD without having done and gone throught bad things, while the radiance didn't even felt that, the radiance didnt care (she can be given an opportunity if she wanted to, but she had to gained but she didnt decided that), and also she thought that she had the right to do all that just bc the pale king gained the power that she had... yes, he gained it bc the bugs and the moths decided by themselves that they wanted him as the king, we have to put things in perspective, this pandemic thing, which is like the perfect example for this, if you had to choose between killing your own children or the pandemic to stay for you to not kill your children... idk about you but if you dont kill your children he/she may die anyways bc of the pandemic, and not only that but a lot of people too (and this is a game, yes the game has a message but lets not put this in a black and white situation, the game is explicity telling you that the pale king felt a lot of shame) and you can see that with the hollow knight AND the knight, if you dont kill the radiance the knight can get infected too... all those vessels were created to fight the infection, that was its purpose, but they still bonded, that's why everything ends up being so counterproductive, and he's right the king did a lot of sacrifices, to not kill the people, he killed his own integrity, and the white palace fading away is like he end up in a big depression bc he had nothing left for himself. He was actually a good king. But if the radiance wanted too idk they could have had a diplomatic conversation and come to terms and find something fair for them and everyone XDD
Let’s just think about this. Had the moths never stopped to worship the radiance, the PK wouldn’t be seen as a jerk by the community since he would have never thrown his kids into a hole.
In fact, he was sorry for throwing his children into the abyss itself, so much so that even though the void could help him to continue developing his civilization, he preferred to seal the abyss and try to forget what happened.
Finally someone that understands. The Pale King is the closest I can think of what an ideal king should be. A King should be benevolent and his only goal should be to have his kingdom to last forever and for that, he should be willing to willingly sacrifice everything he has but the people of the kingdom. The Pale King did just that. He sacrificed his marriage, his integrity, his soul (by killing all those bugs), his life and his friends (Lurien and Monomon) all that so that Hallownest could last eternally.
The Pale King was an idiot. Doesn’t mean he was evil. He mistreated the Vessels because he thought it was his only choice, because he misunderstood what a pure vessel was. (And also did a bad joke of keeping HK pure.. but thats another issue entirely) Tldr: He meant well but did a bad.
Warning: Suuuuuper long~ Under her rule, the bugs weren't truly mindless, just a hive mind. A more connected unity. That is the life and the mind she and her bugs knew. Imagine if someone came one day and stole away all your friends and family, people you knew and loved as much as yourself, and then they locked you away, chained you up within a creature made out of pure poison. So you do the only thing you could possibly do when you've been forgotten, discarded, and locked away. No voice, no body. You sleep, you dream. And in your dreams you can be with them again, you see your loved ones, you can feel them, and you want them back so much. You hate the man that took them from you. The man that stole your family, your home, your entire life, ripped away from you. But the people you loved don't remember you anymore. They don't see you the same. They fear you, they can't look directly at you anymore. All the people you knew and loved so intimately, far more intimately than we could ever understand, and now they can't even look at you. All because of *him*. You would be mad. Enraged. You would feel a more profound loss than any human has ever experienced. And while you dream within that prison, your rage seeps out, unconsciously at first. And suddenly, you feel them near you again, only a few. One, then two, then ten. Only a very few of the ones you loved have returned. But before you can celebrate, before you can feel the relief that you're not alone anymore, that after ages, you've been reunited, they're gone. They're there, and then they aren't. Killed, because they remembered you. Because to the outside world, your memory looks like a plague. Your love is seen as a virus. And you know that it's his fault, that pale wyrm that came and stole everything from you. He's not content to let you have anything. Anyone you get back is killed, you aren't allowed even a moment of happiness. And then one day he dies. You feel it, your cage weakens, your chains grow loose. So you try to escape, and it cracks. You have a voice, you can see the outside world, you can feel it again, you can sense them all out there. So many of the ones you loved have died because of him. But you know how to get them back, you can bring them back to life. So you do. But there's still something left, one malevolent creation of that conniving wyrm left come to take away your life. As you try desperately to free yourself, it works in the shadows, gaining strength, finding its way into your cage, into your dream. And this sentient darkness, this emptiness gave from comes to you and it wants you dead. And so even in his death, that Wyrm, the Pale Wyrm has taken everything from you once again. Even with his life long over, his creations have sought you out, and they have slain you. You will never feel the warmth and love and closeness you once had. The Wyrm made sure of that. OK!! It's over now. Dang that was a lot.
@@raidynmorian4518 Dang now you got me questioning my hatred for Radiance. That brings up an interesting question, did the Radiance know she was hurting bugs or was she just trying to break free of her prison unaware of the consequences?
@@an0therW At that point the Radiance is just throwing her mind hooks blinding to all directions in a last act of self-perseverance regardless if bugs will get killed in the process. She probably won't even care and see it as justified vengeance towards anything that is associated to the being that nearly killed her.
@@raidynmorian4518 It's worth noting PK only locked Radiance up after she started the infection, and that her "family and friends" had left her voluntarily.
@@raidynmorian4518this is an amazing take on this. and I mostly agree with you. my only thing is we don't know wether they had a choice to become a part if this hivemind or wether it was forced or if was just always so. if they were forced that changes things abit. but I really mostly like this way of thinking about it
There's also the fact that the Pale King never knew about the power of the Dream Nail either. If he did, maybe the Radiance would've been taken out a lot quicker, enlisting the Void not to seal the Radiance, but to vanquish her and all her rage and insanity right from the start. There'd be no better opponent to remove her from the picture than her "ancient enemy," according to the Radiance herself in her Dream Nail dialogue.
What the Pale King did was minor to what Soul Tyrant and Radiance did. Yes, he let his thousands of offspring perish and deemed one suitable enough to contain the Radiance, it's the worst thing anyone would do, yet he had good intentions while the Radiance wanted the bugs of Hollownest to be mindless and the Soul Tyrant brainwashed bugs into giving up their souls. He wasn't perfect, but neither is everyone, even gods and god-like entities. If he were truly evil, he would've left Hollownest to rot and have moved on when his efforts to keeping the Radiance contained didn't work instead of continuing to find a way to give Hollownest another chance. He fought for the bugs of Hollownest and still won, even in "death". It doesn't hide what he did, he still did bad things, but he had reasons, GOOD reasons. The Pale King's plan worked in the end, and the lives sacrificed were not in vain.
His plan didn't work at all it completely failed.His plan was for a pure vessal to contain the radiance which failed.His plan was also to slaughter the rest of his children which failed because you the main character managed to escape and YOU the main character fixed your dumb ass fathers mistakes and killed the radiance by yourself.That was not the pale kings plan.
@@goofygoober7750 His plan was to stop the Radiance. His original plan didn't work the way he wanted, it only put a stasis on her intentions to force Hallownest into a primal mindset once again, but he still won because the Vessels were HIS creations, even when The Knight acted alone. And no he didn't "slaughter" his children. They tried to climb their way out like the Knight did and only one got out alive. The Vessels hatched from the eggs seen in The Abyss, climbed their way up, only for many of them to fall and only one was deemed suitable because it climbed its way out of The Abyss. It makes more sense than TPK picking one out of thousands of Vessels and tossing the rest away like trash. How would he even keep all of those Vessels in secret without anybody knowing, anyway?
I think one of the main reasons people hate him is cause of white palace and path of pain cause he made them and pretty much everyone HATES those things
I mean you can sense it from the music that plays in the white palace. After all the sacrifices, he saw his end coming so he hid himself in a forgotten palace to die in peace.
There is so many things that you cant entirely forgive him for (I do forgive him) but you can understand his path of pain honestly, a well written tragic character but to explain his sacrifices, i'll explain this so your kingdom encounters a infection, and so your king is faced with a choice to stop the virus, kill his people, including you, or kill his own children honestly its a hard heart breaking choice and the fact that you survived implies that much pain he inflicted on himself to save his people
Mfer probably would've thrown hands with her himself if he thought it was an option, probably didn't wanna risk succumbing to the infection himself and giving the radiance a fucking god to use.
How the fandom sees the Pale King : a child-murdering villain How TheAsianLife sees the Pale King : a misunderstood heroic king How I see the Pale King : BUZZSAW ENJOYER
Amazing video honestly respect the points you made about how much he was giving to try an protect the bugs of hollownest (Spoiler Rant /Thought) As a side note, No Voice, No Mind, No Thoughts, could be one part to be a vessel to contain, and another part wanting to make something that wouldn't suffer for being an meant to hold a literal god of a plague that drove everyone back to bestial ways. He knew he would have to give up something but he never was noted to experiment on his own citizens, only trying to use his power to grant a mind to something hollow and empty, at best returning their vessels to the void was the best way he could let them go home to said void, after all when the game is beaten in most cases the Siblings relax and return to the void since their no longer bound by a determined goal that they were literally formed to complete. (Also sorry rant mode deactivated)
Lately I was thinking what if he raised a vessel and it suddenly hugged him, how devastated he would be. Because I know that he and the White Lady both felt terrible about the vessels, and that he's not a heartless monster. Because imagine raising a child, loving it, and then when the child expressed love to you you would have to abandon it because it isn't pure. That would be fucking horrible.
Honestly, god or not, I am amazed the dude still had affection for even one of his children after yeeting an incalculable amount of children into a hole. There are at least billions down there. Also, his plan actually DID work, he just didn’t find the final piece himself. His plan was to have the radiance contained by a truly hollow vessel. But, because of the nature of hallownest, he could not create an empty vessel. However, our vessel left hallownest, achieving a hollow mind, the one thing the void could not do.
Actually the pale king and the radiance are both victims and villains The radiance didn't want to be forgotten but just went to far when trying to avoid it. And the pale king... well, you said it
In the end they both commited one mistake. Not accepting their own end. PK did, but it was too late. And Radiance was forcefully dragged into the Void and torn apart.
The man hid himself, his castle, and all of his servants in the dream realm to hide from the radiance and abandoned his people, and your acting like him slowly roting away on his throne was a sacrifice.
Loved the video! One thing you didn't bring up however which I think would be important is how he left hallownest once the infection got to bad. He brings his Castle and himself, but nobody else. Apart from that, I never saw him as a Villan, and I really liked this video! Great job bud 👍
I feel like it’s kinda unfair how people hate the pale king but not?? The radiance as much isn’t she the main antagonist of the story?? She infected thousands of bugs cuz they stopped worshipping her?? Seems a bit of an over action if the moth tribe chose to go to the pale king and not her.
completly agree with everything here. what pk did wasn't ok by any means. but if you think about his situation, what the hell do you do if your kingdom starts to rot and die from an angry moth spreading her infection? also, I highly doubt he didn't feel anything while sacrificing thousands of his children. I think that he had to force himself to be numb to them, but in the end he couldn't help himself with having affection for atleast one of his children
One of the things i love about hollow knight is the lack of a cookie cutter "this charactet is good, this one is evil" thing. If the pale king isnt a villian, he is certainly EXTREMELY flawed. Not worse than the radiance in my opinion, but i personally wouldnt say he was good either. I think people understate the importance of his phrase "no cost too great". His priority above all is the protection of the bugs of hallownest from the Radiance, and will do ANYTHING in his power to achieve that even if it destroys him emotionally.
I wonder if the Pale King sacrificed himself because he sensed there were still some vessels that might be strong enough and if he was alive, he didn't wanna risk getting emotional with them like he did with THK.
![[Undertale AU] Storyshift: Asriel at Judgement Hall(Genocide)[Fan-made]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/P2TwVwkMpGE/mqdefault.jpg)
![[Undertale AU] Storyshift: Asriel at Judgement Hall(Genocide)[Fan-made]](/img/tr.png)
Even if the Radiance was a victim, she zombified the kingdom, you can't excuse that.
@Infected Ghost she could've talked to the White Lady and ask her to tell the king she was being forgotten, and can they make her a God again too? She could have found a new kingdom. She could have attacked the Pale King directly. All im saying is, she had a lot if options.
@Infected Ghost I know this is late, but while your point about the White Lady stands, The king let Unn do her thing in Greenpath, so I don't think he would've been opposed to (only) the Moths worshipping The Radiance. Plus, the King came from another land, as did something called the Blackwyrm, so Radiance should be able to find a new kingdom to rule.
@Infected Ghost What are mosquitoes supposed to do but suck blood? It’s in their nature and they don’t have a choice, but that doesn’t make them any less of a bitch lol
@@ziimulhah3223 Or the Radiance could just make more followers instead of throwing a hissy fit on her first rejection in Wyrm-know how many years. The Moths are literally her own children, but they turn their backs on their mother when they realized the world is much bigger than what they were taught.
@Infected Ghost There is no "payback" to be had. The moth tribe willingly turned to the king as their god. The Radience acted out of anger that her creations turned their back on her.
Like someone said earlier, PK let the bugs of Greenpath continue worshipping Unn, PK probably had no objection to the moth tribe worshipping The Radience.
It's not PK's fault that Radience had a temper tantrum.
I love this dude. Instead of saying: “Oh yEa He’s a vIllAin” he completely defends the pale king witch other people should do. So I clap you you in vessel **Claps in vessel**
:)
The pale king died of stds
I agree with everyone that he was a good guy. The villain's wiki page said he's there for killing his kids and pissing off the radiance. even though radiance's a paganist god who murdered everyone.
@@denifnaf5874 yes
@@lexifeaser1619 uhh the villains wiki Said He had “honorable intentions” though…
I’m pretty sure the White Lady was fine with the Pale King having a child with Herrah.
Doesn’t make it any less of a sacrifice tho. Pk basically bargained off a child and some of his honor, and the White Lady was ok with it because she knew it was for the kingdom.
@@TheAsianLifeisYellow I mean, they´re bugs, right?
she even liked hornet as her own
WL may have been fine but PK was in a situation where the consent was dubious. So, uh. Say it with me kids. Dubious consent is still rape.
@@WhiteWhistleBondrewd I mean the white lady is a tree, but otherwise yea
Pale King: I've sacrificed everything but the infection is still here.
The knight: let me just slap the moth a couple times.
Meme: Do You Know How Much I Sacrifice.
The radiance might have been the victim initially, but she lost her victimhood when she started infecting people’s dreams.
The problem is this nobody is absulotely right or wrong of higher beings like pale king doing such bad things for a good reason and radiance just getting angry cuz of pale kings selfishness on sharing a kingdom but being bad at the end.
@@WinterMute_0 I agree that those two (and Grimm) were messed up, but the other higher beings seem okay. White Lady and Unn did nothing wrong
The radiance in some ways is just as bad, if not worse than the pale king in some ways. Enslaving thousands of innocent bugs that still have some sentience and knowledge of their slavery, not for the greater good (like the pale king) but out of jealously is inexcusable. Look at what happened to Myla! Soul Master did a similar thing in order to obtain immortality as well, but everyone seems to gloss over that.
@@Drekromancer Grimm himself is enslaved under the Nightmare Heart, which is probably only concerned in feeding itself and growing in power. So yeah, a devourer of kingdoms doesn't' sound that great. And also the constant romanticism of Grimm is kind of sickening.
TehRainbowNoob ikr nobody really talks about what soul master does. However I don’t see what Grimm does that’s wrong.
I've never considered the Pale King a villain, as much as just a dude who was out of morally acceptable options.
i havent watched the video yet but like, couldnt he just fight the radiance head on?
@@FirstnameLastname-sb3hj Not exactly. The only way to truly destroy the radiance is by having everyone forget about it, or through the shades use of void. Neither of which the Pale King can pull off.
@@FirstnameLastname-sb3hj Even if it was possible for him to do so, which we don’t really have any indication of it being so, I don’t think the Pale King would have won that fight.
@@FirstnameLastname-sb3hj I don’t think so - The Radiance primarily exists on a different plain of existence (the dreamworld) which is why the infection was so hard to contain in the first place. It seems like the only way to truly kill her is by the unified Void (which The Radiance mentions it being her nemesis or greatest enemy if you dream nail her during the fight) which the Pale King couldn’t so.
But, his children - who are part void, could do this, which is why The Knight is able to kill her. I’m assuming The Pale King didn’t figure this out before he died despite his studies and experiments with the void.
@@mishaalkisan1688 so all he had to do was build a army of shadow children....and a dream nail of course
I think the pain of getting hit by buzzsaws in path of pain and white palace in general played a huge part in the hate lol
Definitely
Them:"THE RADIENCE ISN'T EVIL!!!!!
Me:"Myla"
Y e s
Sly, Bretta, every bug in Hollownest, bugs who got turned to walking orange bombs, the literal dead, Deepnest, Unn's followers who was never involved with PK in the first place...
I’m surprised you didn’t mention the fact that the white lady literally said to not blame the pale king for the vessel thing
She said he had great shame
I think Pale King knew that everyone would hate him for what he had to sacrifice... but he did it anyway. Because even if the bugs of Hallownest hated him or imprisoned him. He would still be happy they were alive.
After playing Dead Cells, and seeing how bad a king that leads his subjects to ruin because of disease COULD be, The Pale King looks like a saint.
I may meme on and make fun of the Pale King, but I knew he tried his best and cared for his kingdom. Plus I would never believe Radiance was a victim. I would never be on her side, especially after Pantheon of Hallownest.
My personal belief is that the kids weren't pushed into the abyss, rather they just fell off while climbing up to the top of the abyss
It's also worth mentioning that he may have thought the vessels had no feelings and therefore killing them wouldnt be cruel
Like, vessels were supposed to be just body, with nothing inside, right?
damn void
Remember that the ones that died were the ones that failed to be empty.
@@ritaerror7829 yeah but he only killed the failed vessels who did have emotions so
@@Awfulturtle When? The only we knows about is the Hollow Knight, which he took in and knight
Bugs with Radience also still move, so how can you tell if something have sentience? For all Pale King knew, bugs under his jurisdiction were able to do their own thing, because he let them to, Mantis also had emotions, but in Hive, or Mushrooms, do they have emotions, or just follows whatever is told to them?
The Pale King wasn't inherent evil. He did bad things, true, but had good intentions and sacrificed everything he had to save his people who chose him over the Radiance. And while I'm still mad about the saws and spikes, that's a minor inconvenience, considering what Radi does 😂
finally something other than AMVs that sees the pale king as something other then 'child murder playboy buzzsaw man'
...the buzzsaw part is pretty funny tho
XD
I feel ya man
@@mightycow231 Not really, It was at first, But now whenever I see some meme complaining and going on and on about the pale kings addiction to them
I honestly, actually, have to resist the urge to vomit all over my phone
I see the buzz saws as the PK's reflection of his stress, mental anxiety and guilt. It's white, sharp, loud to the ears and hurts so much you would rather run away than confront it. Effectively trapping him in his own head space until he just decays from his own build up stress with no intervention. He probably knows this and accept this as possible retribution to what he had done. I mean, he just sits there on his throne like he accepts the darkness to take his life. He's a smart guy, he practically kickstarted the bug industrial age, so he is very much aware that his days are numbered when he started working with Void, which to a light-based creature, is as comparable as holding sentient radium with your bare hands.
This guy suffered from extreme mental stress, anxiety, suicidal thoughts and we just make fun of it like it's a sick joke. It is ridiculously unhealthy and can possibly actually happen to people with huge responsibilities to bear, especially when lives are on the line.
Well and people generally don't look at authoritative figures as such. They generally go "well I'd never do that." And disregard the sacrifices and selflessness that is required of a ruler. The general population isn't going to look at such actions as that of a being of higher thought. So generally the gravity of the situation from that singular perspective (the king's perspective) is ignored or never truly touched on. So the large amount of hatred against the pale king is mostly coming from people who have never dealt with the greater responsibility of taking care of other's over one self, or they are thinking too much in their own shoes. Just my opinion.
I low key wanna convey that in a drawing, thx for the idea!
I didn't hate pale king other than white palace is literal hell
also if you think it that way, path of pain making so much sence. maybe how his memory with hk is there because it's really painful for him to sacrifice all of his children
@@lucidmelon3599and also perhaps it's the Pale King realizing it's his fault that his plan failed. That his inability to not show love for his child is what ended up dooming his kingdom and it's citizens. The one time in awhile that he chose to be selfish and do something for himself, getting to be a father, it ends up causing the outcome he was trying to prevent
I’m assuming the thorns must be the obstacle forever locking all those negative thoughts together too, then? Trauma?
Thorns can be used for protection. Trauma never fades, but it can be pushed away. Concealed so no one can find it, and it bides its time, growing ever stronger as it’s left unattended, like thorns.
Also, you can only move on from trauma if you face it. It’s difficult, just like traversing thorns.
I really like that out of all the hate to the pale king I finally founded someone the shares my thoughts about him not being that bad of a person
Does the scp foundation really let you this loose?!
Even though Ive listened to too much Hollow Knight content I never saw him as a villain or bad. I kind of understand him although damn thats terrible u really did that to your kids-
This video's so nice. I'm glad there's a content creator out there standing in defense of the Pale King.
Thanks, I appreciate it so much!
How could you praise the man? I whent through hell because he made a mistake!
Ey I might like pale king one of the most
@@trulers8713 he just said why, please chill out man...
@@littlevessel5351 I'm sorry smol one.
My best argument in defense of the pale king is “what would YOU do in that situation?”
He was born a wyrm (born to create kingdoms), and took power over every bug in Hallownest fairly because he gave them a mind, he didn’t ruin the economy in any way, and if you were the pale king, you wouldn’t want to risk your own life because of a foe that you had already kinda defeated.
I actually think the Pale King realized he couldn't beat the Radiance, at least without massive damage to himself or his kingdom in such a way that may doom his citizens. The only reason our Knight could defeat Radiance was because of the Voidheart allowing it to have the entire power of the void to defeat the Radiance
Using that scene from mob psycho was absolute CHECKMATE, what a dirty, dirty blow! How could you do this to me!
I honestly think it's unfair how the fandom threats the Pale King. We didn't even get to interact with him personnally ; (so we don't know how exactly he would behave).
A lot of people make the Pale King as the child murdering playboy buzzsaw maniac bad guy while the White Lady is represented as the sweet loving mother figure who couldn't stand sacrificing her children while it is shown how cold, distant and how she really was willing to make that sacrifice in her own way (she doesn't even call the vessels her children but rather her spawn).
In my opinion both PK and WL have good and bad attributes to them and they both must have suffered as much in their own way. The decline of Hallownest and the decisions taken to ensure its preservation during the panic obviously had a negative impact on their relationship but yet both were willing to sacrifice their children, (a part of) themselve in order to save it despite the weight of this responsibility.
i mean she's a god, of course she's gonna treat her children differently than mortals, especially when they're basically zombies now,
her affection for hornet is enough proof that she's good-hearted and so is her self-imprisonment and probable self-weakening as punishment
i do think opinions on the king are a bit overblown as his actions have reason to a point but people are still largely correct i think
he's the guy whose power and influence went to his head by the end, when he huddled up in a corner and died hidden away in his solitary palace
I see Hollow Knight as a tragedy. The king and queen were good people genuinely trying to do good things, but ironically couldn't make their plan work. Most notably, the King loved the Hollow Knight too much to distance himself to keep him truly hollow. Only a heartless monster could do that. ...Oh wait, you're right, that doesn't make any sense at all does it lol.
he is still nº1 buzzsaw enjoyer
I mean, If I had I child who I had to show no affection to at all, I don't think I would call it the nicest of names
To be fair, he is, in fact, a buzzsaw maniac.
Fanon:
Vessel: Dad! I made you a drawing!
Pale King: You have emotion? Die.
*-YEET-*
Canon:
Vessel: Dad! I made you a drawing!
*Pale King: I'm sorry, little one.*
REAL Canon:
Vessel: Already in the abyss
Canon:
"Oh cool a drawing... WAIT A FUCKING MINUTE"
I SAID NO VOICE TO CRY OUT SUFFERING!
I like to think the I am sorry little one were the first, but by the 1 millionth child he became numb to It, My headcanon Is that he was good but all the things happening broke him
The main problem with this meme is that the Pale King didn't throw his children into the Abyss, they were born down there to soak in and become one with the void to become empty vessels to contain the Radiance, many just didn't survive the perilous climb up to the top.
morality is subjective, but a way to find out if someone is "evil" to me isn't to compare their actions to any moral codes, but is to see if their actions were for others/a greater purpose, or were entirely selfish. The king sacrificed everything for hallownest, so in my eyes, whether his actions were for better or for worse, his intentions were pure and he was no villain.
:)
A bit late but to challenge your statement, historically, there were figures such as Robespierre with the ideology “the ends justify the means”
I know it’s a bit off topic and for the most part, I agree with you
What you have described is a kind of moral code.
@@bierangtamen I think one of the key differences between people like Robespierre and the Pale King is that Robespierre had clear, obvious, better options morally. The Pale King’s solution was almost as drastic, but in contrast his only other real option was give up and let the Radiance win, in the process giving up the free will of every bug in the kingdom.
@@lonestarlibrarian1853 Good point and I completely agree; I have always been pro Pale King anyways
I believe he had it hardest having to sacrifice everything he had
The fact that even though the Hollow knight knew of the fact that he basically murdered all of their siblings he still managed to make a familial bond with him, that’s amazing.
Bro came in and defended the pale king's ass with valid arguments. Bravo.
dammit radiance , you make pale king kill his kid.
Honestly, the more I think about Pale King's character, the more I suspect Team Cherry might have changed some details during the development. Like, I think he was originally supposed to be a straight up villain, but later they leaned more into morally gray and tragic direction.
I remember there was this one fan comic that asked the question if the pale king even knew how many kids were born from the black egg, because he probably just waited for the first one to rise from the abyss and thought the others just succumbed to the void or werent born.
Everything bad that happened in the story of hollow knight is the fault of some moths who decided to leave a cult
I don't think it counts as a cult if your god literally created you directly and you can just like, talk to them.
@@raidynmorian4518 true, but consider this: it’s a joke
Yes. I also do like the Radiance, but she's a topic for another time. Despite all the things he did, I think he was a genuinely nice guy, just went about things the wrong way.
Hence is why I really like his character.
radiance is a bitch.
@@flandera9965 Now that I'm stuck on Radiant AbsRad. I must agree with you on that. I don't hate Radiance as a whole (She'sa great boss and villain!), but dear god AbsRad can go die in the void.
Wait Radiance is he?
Personally I don’t know if it can even be said he went about things in the wrong way. Did he have any other, less terrible options? None that we know of pretty sure, he seems to have had no idea the Radiance could be fought in dream, or killed at all. Also worth noting the path he took did work, eventually, even if not in the way he planned and too late to save the kingdom.
Technically having thousands of Void Vessels running around his kingdom would be extremely dangerous, I doubt the Pale King would want to have that situation given how deadly Void is, especially to Higher Beings.
Sure he killed his kids, but they were also Void which is super dangerous to both himself and the residents of Hallownest.
It was probably for the best that the siblings died, not good at all but it seems like a safer option :(
Still though, poor siblings.
Kage Okami At least we can nope they were empty enough to not feel a thing.
He kinda killed them before they became void, what with putting the eggs down in the void, the void killing them, and then kinda just, reanimating them I think (I’m not totally clear on this part)
@@iamacatperson7226 no , i don't think so. The siblings got "merged" with void thou some of them may heve died in the proces.
@@Void_Creature4 yea, I realized when I said that I said it in the wrong way, my bad
In memory of the vessels
Sleeping in the neverending darkness
Through their sacrifice Hallownest lasts eternal
It's interesting to see someone delve into the Pale King's perspective and intentions. I think the infanticide really sticks out as reprehensible, but at the same time, I've thought about this before and I don't think he really knew of any other option at that point. It's hard to 100% judge everything he did since we didn't see how it all went down, but I definitely don't think he was just a cold, heartless monster. Just a desperate wyrm ovo
I reckon when the PK is sacrificing the vessels in pursuit of creating the Hollow Knight through trial and error, he doesn't realise their potential for personhood, hence the difference between his willingness to sacrifice them, as opposed to the regular bugs of Hallownest. It's only later on, after he grows to care for HK, that he realises his mistake. Maybe WL and PK underestimate their own soulful natures, which is why they don't think their vessel-children are, or have the potential to be, people with agency and souls. Part of their character flaws. And maybe he dies of a broken heart, and WL survives by blocking out the idea of her vessels being her children, hence referring to them as 'spawn'. She shows ignorance of the outside world, not even realising her guardian is dead, and she is noted as limiting herself.
The thing about the ‘no cost too great’ dialogue in the white palace is that it could mean one of two things:
It either means this is a belief that the pale king has, or it’s a belief he’s trying to convince himself of. And there’s real no way to know for sure which it is, but I’ll explain my own personal interpretation for anyone interested.
Because of the ellipsis after this line of dialogue, I personally interpreted it as a belief he wanted to convince himself of. The ellipsis could also just mean there’s more to that line that we don’t see yet (which is true) but the ‘no cost too great’ dream nail dialogue in the white palace starts in the middle of that quote, and there’s no ellipsis preceding that line, which made it feel less like a placeholder for the rest of the quote and more like an intentional indicator of hesitation.
I don’t think there’s an excuse to sacrificing hundreds of thousands of children, or bonding with one as your own son and then sending them to eternal torment in a prison of your own design, but I always thought it was something the pale king would never do again. I interpreted regret from his dialogue, I saw the scene where he seemed to bond with THK, and I don’t think he would do it again (Your own interpretation of his character and whether or not he would do something like this again is up to you, but that’s how I always saw it). That’s why I always hated the white lady so much more than PK. She asks you to go take THK’s place. Another offspring of hers, and she just doesn’t care about you at all. There’s not even anything left to save (although she possibly doesn’t know that). Maybe the pale king didn’t actually care either, that’s entirely possible, but at least we don’t have solid on-screen evidence of that from him.
I’ve been told my interpretation of the white lady is harsh (and my interpretation of PK too forgiving), and that she locked herself away because she cared too much about not having any more vessel kids to let it happen again, and that she has ‘some shame’ for the part she played and I guess ‘some shame’ is enough for some folks, which is also a fair way of looking at it. But I have my own shitty mom who’s selfish and manipulative in the same way that the white lady is and I get tired of people portraying her as this perfect beautiful being when she’s just as shitty, if not more shitty, that PK.
Sorry for the long tangent. Got a bit off-topic there. Great video, I love to see interpretations of characters that don’t necessarily follow the norm :)
The pale king's death was not a sacrifice he made for hallownest, but it instead was his resognation. Him submitting himself to death was not a part of the plan, and had no benefit to it, but was instead him admittong that he had no kingdom left to live for, and so he let the void take his life
The pale king is so cool, they named a metal after him.
Finally, someone who doesn't see the Pale King as the entire bad guy...I love your take on him, and that meme at the end, love it. Stay cool
Thanks man! Comments like yours make me really happy about making videos lol
Never thought that I’d be lectured by a dummy about a fork being a decent guy
Yeah, I think, except for genocide his kids, he was a nice guy
on the RADIANCE side, at least he didn't yeet his children just cause he is a racist jerk to three kids his son befriended...
(Thats right SPADE KING YOU JUST GOT *SHADE*)
Another thing is, is that it’s a somewhat common hc that any spawn of the Wyrm and the White Lady wouldn’t have survived anyway, and they both fully believed that the things that came out of the abyss were empty- at first.
Not only did they think they were deprived of emotions, but he didnt kill no kid, since they were just fetuses when the void took them.
Their children were hollowed out and replaced with void, so technically the children were stillborn before they even hatched out of the egg. It's kind of like a really harsh abortion.
_it was for the bugs of hallownest_
I love this! No one talk about what the PK did to save Hallownest, only that he kill his kids to get it. But because of that, him killing his kids that the kingdom was save in first place.
Thanks for making this friend!
Thanks Subway
@@TheAsianLifeisYellow No Problem
More people need to see this video as in sick of people treating the pale king like a bloody villain and then say the radiance did nothing wrong.
You are me
I feel the same way
in reality, the whole ''cheating'' thing, was actually a bargain herrah imposed on the pale king in exchange to become a dreamer
I don't think you can assume that the PK physically pushed them off, they might've fell on their way up (just like the character you play) and he might've believed they were unfeeling. Perhaps a lot of them were stillborn, corrupted by the void to be born at all, only with their shell left. This is the world of bugs and the weak die, just like Hornet killed the greenpath vessel, I'm assuming they each have something drawing them to end the infection that gets them killed one way or another, and having an incompetent vessel stop the infection (like the hollow knight) would risk everything. I think the character you play as somehow got lucky with the dream nail and void heart. I don't think the pale king knew anything about it. If he did then what he did paid off, hallownest did get rid of the infection.
FINALLY, someone with a working brain. This deserves more views.
I really think the moth tribe fucked up. if they didnt betray the radiance she wouldn't have done what she did. the pale king cant control who chooses to follow him. he never said I want the moth tribe to follow me.
the seer even states in her final last words to you, after u get 2400 essence, that you should forget about us amd stuff. pale kling was a murderer yes, but not really as bad as he seems. the tablet before the Abyss even states that it's full of regret.
Thanks for breaking the norm of straight up declaring the Pale King 👑 as "Evil-Doer".
It was all in all a untimely tragedy.
As the saying goes "Road to hell is paved by Good intentions "
I completely agree. The Pale king is one of my favorite characters in Hollow Knight.
This is a very good video, and I completely agree! I've never hated Pale King tbh. Sure he's not perfect, but he for sure isn't the villain of Hollownest.
i feel the same. like, even if he was the antagonist i still wasnt gonna hate him.
There are so many people worse than PK to call him the antagonist
"Radiance who purged and destroyed the entire kingdom? OUR HERO!"
Sincerely the Pale King could have just ran away when the infection started, if he was narsisistic enough to just want attencion he could have gotten it anywhere, but he didn't run away, and eventually died with his kingdom.
I mean yeah he did good things. The only thing I can question is WHY THE HELL IS HIS PALACE COVERED IN BUZZSAWS?! WHO DOES THAT?!
He got a buzz saw for every child he sacrificed
@@TheAsianLifeisYellow that sad when you realize its called the path of pain
In lore, I think the reason it is covered in buzzsaws is because the buzzsaws and thorns covering the palace are manifestations of his grief and regret. We know that the Path of Pain is in fact a memory, not an actual physical part of the white palace. And that has an even higher concentration of buzzsaws and thorns, because it was his biggest regret and most shameful secret, in that even though he knew the HK wasn't truly hollow and had established a bond with them, he still sealed him away to try to save the kingdom.
Extreme paranoia bet
I actually had thoughts about this, and my reason was because he wanted to seperate himself from the rest. He didn’t want anyone else to see him as he was ashamed of himself. He put all the saw blades to make sure no one could come to him. He even has guards to try and prevent people to both enter the white palace, his throne room, and his truth of having affection for Hollow. He doesn’t want others to be here, he wants others to forget him as he again is ashamed of what he did, what cost he paid.
This definitely helped me come around to Pale King and realize he wasn't that bad of a guy , of course not perfect but not as horrible as I had thought , enjoyed this lots
This is why the Pale King is one of my favorite characters. It takes masterful storytelling to have one of the best characters be someone you never even directly meet or speak to.
I'm in love with this video. When I played the game through the first couple of times and pieced the lore together before coming to the online fandom, I saw him as a King who sacrificied everything he loved so his citizens could prosper, but unfortunately failed in the process (though I'm not saying he's perfect- everything is grey, not black and white. He sacrificed how many children and ran away to isolation when his people were wondering where he'd gone). When I was met with "buzzsaw crazy selfish ruthless tyrant" after going online, I was genuinely shocked and confused. I'm glad there are other people who look at him wholistically instead of just saying he was awful. Because if he HAD succeeded in his plan, he would've most definitely been seen as the hero by the fandom.
fandom at pk: evil. I do not like this man
fandom at soul master, grimm, and radiance: you guys are ok
Oh my god i feel the same way YOU ARE THE MESSIAH
Imo Grimm only gets a pass because he's a slave as well, being one of the only members of the troupe to actually die/die more times than the others.
@@tacobanana6538 he is more innocent than the others but he still could put an end to the cycle if he wanted to (correct me if I'm wrong tho, it's been awhile). he could've just not decided to put his child through what he went through and enslaving his child. I get the whole nightmare heart thing but grimm is at least partially to blame in my opinion
@@thefluffyaj4119 (this is long but at the same time I don't know how to crop it down without getting rid of the things I wanna say, so there's a tldr at the end)
I somewhat doubt Grimm has as much will to do that as Brumm does, especially given how Brumm is perhaps the only/one of the few bugs to not be all that close in relation to the troupe, whilst Grimm literally holds both the troupe and the Heart in his hands. Grimm only serves for one purpose, same way the Knight serves even after all that they've been through (collosal of fools, being the last witness to quirrel...).
As for the enslavement thing, I think of it the same way as a robot. The Grimm probably serves the king naturally, the same way the hive naturally serves the queen. Like, Grimm probably doesn't have a choice in not putting the Child through what he's been through because the idea of prolonging the heart is instilled into the child already. Plus, even if Grimm metaphorically did give the child a choice of rebellion, I can see it not working out well for both Grimm and the child given on how it needs the essence to grow and I'd suspect the Nightmare King wouldn't be at all pleased to hear that Grimm gave the child a sense of individuality.
TLDR; Grimm nor Grimmchild can't rebel because they're naturally committed to the heart.
@@tacobanana6538 hmm, yea that makes sense! it's easy to apply human intellect and customs to these bugs because most of them have sentience. even if I'm literally a soon to be entomologist who plans on studying insects (and other arthropods) and their brains and all that for a living
but yea, now that I think about, despite being near human levels of sentience, the bugs of hallownest seem to be influenced largely by instinct aswell. mr mushroom says it's in the wyrms nature to "pull kingdoms into it's thrall", same for the radiance is her unleashing a plague in a jealous fit of rage when her subjects are taken away is anything to go by. the white lady has a great instinct to breed, so much so that she has to physically restrain herself. many more bugs seem to be largely influenced by instinct aswell, these are just the most obvious examples. so I guess it makes sense that grimm, in a way, had to follow the nightmare heart. like the pale king had to have a kingdom, and the radiance had to have subjects aswell
Pale king is a terrible father but he sure is a great king
Yep.
Desperation can cause reasonable men to do unreasonable things.
That's your main misconception right there. The Pale King isn't a man. They're a Wyrm, a God.
@@raidynmorian4518 laws are laws, desperation = unreasonable actions, no exceptions
@@sirsmiles1915but laws don't = Morality
You can do something against the law that's morally right
@@chunkyspider8913 Yeah thing is we’re not talking about legality we’re talking about someone being driven to do something immoral by their own desperation to uphold something moral. This isn’t the gotcha you think it is
@@raidynmorian4518Dragon so not a god not mortal well on this conversations topic but yeah in the game he's a god
The ancient basin and the abyss are the most depressing places in this game damn.
I have 2 favorite interpretations of the pale king
1 that he was truly a good person and took "no cost too great" to heart, after all, what's the lives of those who simply cannot feel, those who were designed not to, vs a kingdom of living breathing bugs, perhaps he thought that finding a "pure vessel' wouldn't be as hard as it was
2 that he was an absolute dickhead of the highest caliber and his arrogance came back to bite him in the ass in the end.
exact opposite ends of the spectrum, one side sad and emotional, the other just really funny
I would've liked you to add Monomon's poem, the one that appears each time you start a savefile. It's a really good picture of all the good things the Pale King brought for the bugs and why they worshipped him. It also shows how he was the unifier of the territories of Hallownest, not the conqueror. (And the poem is one of my favourite quotes from the game, heck yeah).
A thing that I don't understand is why nobody remember the dialogue with bardoom (the big worm in the kingdom's edge) that says , refering to the pale king " why knowing the future if you can't change it" I can't find the exact dialogue but I know for sure that teh pale king already knew that he had to sacrifice many things to defeate the radiance, but he did it to give, for a "small" time , a mind to think.
for me he is not evil, and he didn't like to sacrifice anything and anyone but he knew that one day we will defeat the radiance.
That's a giant mushroom in Fungal Core, not Bardoon.
If PK didn't keep justifying by saying no cost to great, he wpuld have probably jumped into his buzzsaws by now
Everyone: Let me guess.. Your Kingdom?
Pale King: It is, and it was beautiful. Hallownest was like most places, it has people and a thriving society. And when it faced imminent danger of larger scale i offered a solution.
Everyone: Infanticide..
Pale King: But it had to be done, The Radiance can only affect bugs with emotions and ones that could dream. So i had to use my offsprings, corrupted by The Void to create the Perfect Vessel to take down the Radiance once and for all.
They called me a Madman.. And what i predicted came to pass.
Everyone: Congratulations, you're a prophet.
Pale King: I'm a savior.
Everyone: Who murdered thousands..
Pale King: I simply needed the Perfect Vessel for the job, and once that vessel eradicates the Radiance, the Infection would cease to exist, and i call that.. Mercy.
Everyone: And then what..
Pale King: I'd finally rest, and stay in my hidden palace from shame of the atrocities that i've committed, wither away, as the people of my kingdom be free and prosper once again.
The hardest choices require the strongest wills.
Everyone: RRREEEEEEEEEE
Finally a person who has the same idea as me, I have seen many people say that he is a scoundrel or a villain, but I have never seen him like this through what I heard or saw in the game
To the Pale King's credit, he didn't force them all to obey his whim like the Radiance. The Mantises and Deepnest were able to stay independent, for the most part, albeit with the Mantises standing guard to make sure Deepnest doesn't get any funny ideas. He was more of a fool than malicious. Instead of looking for one perfect vessel, he should've formed an army with all of them.
That's literally the Dream No More Ending. Take their combined might together and the Radiance is easily crushed.
Kinda late, but the opposite outcome would've been possible as well.
Imagine if the Radiance began to take control of them. One after the other, with much greater ease than with the Hollow Knight, as these vessels would have a much more evident mind.
And since infection makes you stronger, one infected vessel would be able to take care of several. Just think about how many times players have died to Broken Vessel.
Overall, a fight between the Radiance and the Vessels would not end well for Hallownest.
People are too hard on the pale king sometimes, but people saying that the Radiance is the victim is ridiculous. The Radiance basically killed everybody because they weren't giving her attention like an awful brat, and the reason everybody worshipped the pale king instead of her is because he just treated them better.
ok so... this is my ranting ... (sorry for the typos)
From my POV... its nonsense to say that the pale king is the villian, the Radiance is the actual villian... that's why it is the final final boss, everything that the Radiance did was to feed its own ego, none of the bugs had sentience nor will, and as you can see when forgotten crossroads gets infected there are some bugs that are REALLY covered on infection, like if they were trying to fight it and end up being consumed bc of its force, so i dont think that the radiance is good nor an innocent, it was also really jelous, AND YES the pale king did a lot of horrible things, but is the regret that him and the white lady felt/feel that lets you know about why he's not the villian, bc he knows that he did bad things, and no one that is good, its completly GOOD without having done and gone throught bad things, while the radiance didn't even felt that, the radiance didnt care (she can be given an opportunity if she wanted to, but she had to gained but she didnt decided that), and also she thought that she had the right to do all that just bc the pale king gained the power that she had... yes, he gained it bc the bugs and the moths decided by themselves that they wanted him as the king, we have to put things in perspective, this pandemic thing, which is like the perfect example for this, if you had to choose between killing your own children or the pandemic to stay for you to not kill your children... idk about you but if you dont kill your children he/she may die anyways bc of the pandemic, and not only that but a lot of people too (and this is a game, yes the game has a message but lets not put this in a black and white situation, the game is explicity telling you that the pale king felt a lot of shame) and you can see that with the hollow knight AND the knight, if you dont kill the radiance the knight can get infected too... all those vessels were created to fight the infection, that was its purpose, but they still bonded, that's why everything ends up being so counterproductive, and he's right the king did a lot of sacrifices, to not kill the people, he killed his own integrity, and the white palace fading away is like he end up in a big depression bc he had nothing left for himself. He was actually a good king.
But if the radiance wanted too idk they could have had a diplomatic conversation and come to terms and find something fair for them and everyone XDD
Nicely said
Let’s just think about this. Had the moths never stopped to worship the radiance, the PK wouldn’t be seen as a jerk by the community since he would have never thrown his kids into a hole.
Exactly that’s why I like the comics where he isn’t a sadistic person and instead a loving father
In fact, he was sorry for throwing his children into the abyss itself, so much so that even though the void could help him to continue developing his civilization, he preferred to seal the abyss and try to forget what happened.
Finally someone that understands. The Pale King is the closest I can think of what an ideal king should be. A King should be benevolent and his only goal should be to have his kingdom to last forever and for that, he should be willing to willingly sacrifice everything he has but the people of the kingdom. The Pale King did just that. He sacrificed his marriage, his integrity, his soul (by killing all those bugs), his life and his friends (Lurien and Monomon) all that so that Hallownest could last eternally.
The Pale King was an idiot. Doesn’t mean he was evil.
He mistreated the Vessels because he thought it was his only choice, because he misunderstood what a pure vessel was. (And also did a bad joke of keeping HK pure.. but thats another issue entirely)
Tldr: He meant well but did a bad.
Next: In defense of Radiance.
Go on. I dare you.
Warning: Suuuuuper long~
Under her rule, the bugs weren't truly mindless, just a hive mind. A more connected unity. That is the life and the mind she and her bugs knew.
Imagine if someone came one day and stole away all your friends and family, people you knew and loved as much as yourself, and then they locked you away, chained you up within a creature made out of pure poison.
So you do the only thing you could possibly do when you've been forgotten, discarded, and locked away. No voice, no body. You sleep, you dream. And in your dreams you can be with them again, you see your loved ones, you can feel them, and you want them back so much.
You hate the man that took them from you. The man that stole your family, your home, your entire life, ripped away from you. But the people you loved don't remember you anymore. They don't see you the same. They fear you, they can't look directly at you anymore.
All the people you knew and loved so intimately, far more intimately than we could ever understand, and now they can't even look at you. All because of *him*.
You would be mad. Enraged. You would feel a more profound loss than any human has ever experienced. And while you dream within that prison, your rage seeps out, unconsciously at first. And suddenly, you feel them near you again, only a few. One, then two, then ten. Only a very few of the ones you loved have returned.
But before you can celebrate, before you can feel the relief that you're not alone anymore, that after ages, you've been reunited, they're gone. They're there, and then they aren't. Killed, because they remembered you. Because to the outside world, your memory looks like a plague. Your love is seen as a virus. And you know that it's his fault, that pale wyrm that came and stole everything from you. He's not content to let you have anything. Anyone you get back is killed, you aren't allowed even a moment of happiness.
And then one day he dies. You feel it, your cage weakens, your chains grow loose. So you try to escape, and it cracks. You have a voice, you can see the outside world, you can feel it again, you can sense them all out there. So many of the ones you loved have died because of him. But you know how to get them back, you can bring them back to life. So you do. But there's still something left, one malevolent creation of that conniving wyrm left come to take away your life. As you try desperately to free yourself, it works in the shadows, gaining strength, finding its way into your cage, into your dream. And this sentient darkness, this emptiness gave from comes to you and it wants you dead.
And so even in his death, that Wyrm, the Pale Wyrm has taken everything from you once again. Even with his life long over, his creations have sought you out, and they have slain you. You will never feel the warmth and love and closeness you once had. The Wyrm made sure of that.
OK!! It's over now. Dang that was a lot.
@@raidynmorian4518 Dang now you got me questioning my hatred for Radiance. That brings up an interesting question, did the Radiance know she was hurting bugs or was she just trying to break free of her prison unaware of the consequences?
@@an0therW At that point the Radiance is just throwing her mind hooks blinding to all directions in a last act of self-perseverance regardless if bugs will get killed in the process. She probably won't even care and see it as justified vengeance towards anything that is associated to the being that nearly killed her.
@@raidynmorian4518 It's worth noting PK only locked Radiance up after she started the infection, and that her "family and friends" had left her voluntarily.
@@raidynmorian4518this is an amazing take on this. and I mostly agree with you. my only thing is we don't know wether they had a choice to become a part if this hivemind or wether it was forced or if was just always so. if they were forced that changes things abit. but I really mostly like this way of thinking about it
That is a Leader that Rules without an iron fist and carries a lot a regrets
There's also the fact that the Pale King never knew about the power of the Dream Nail either. If he did, maybe the Radiance would've been taken out a lot quicker, enlisting the Void not to seal the Radiance, but to vanquish her and all her rage and insanity right from the start. There'd be no better opponent to remove her from the picture than her "ancient enemy," according to the Radiance herself in her Dream Nail dialogue.
What the Pale King did was minor to what Soul Tyrant and Radiance did. Yes, he let his thousands of offspring perish and deemed one suitable enough to contain the Radiance, it's the worst thing anyone would do, yet he had good intentions while the Radiance wanted the bugs of Hollownest to be mindless and the Soul Tyrant brainwashed bugs into giving up their souls. He wasn't perfect, but neither is everyone, even gods and god-like entities. If he were truly evil, he would've left Hollownest to rot and have moved on when his efforts to keeping the Radiance contained didn't work instead of continuing to find a way to give Hollownest another chance. He fought for the bugs of Hollownest and still won, even in "death".
It doesn't hide what he did, he still did bad things, but he had reasons, GOOD reasons. The Pale King's plan worked in the end, and the lives sacrificed were not in vain.
His plan didn't work at all it completely failed.His plan was for a pure vessal to contain the radiance which failed.His plan was also to slaughter the rest of his children which failed because you the main character managed to escape and YOU the main character fixed your dumb ass fathers mistakes and killed the radiance by yourself.That was not the pale kings plan.
@@goofygoober7750 His plan was to stop the Radiance. His original plan didn't work the way he wanted, it only put a stasis on her intentions to force Hallownest into a primal mindset once again, but he still won because the Vessels were HIS creations, even when The Knight acted alone.
And no he didn't "slaughter" his children. They tried to climb their way out like the Knight did and only one got out alive. The Vessels hatched from the eggs seen in The Abyss, climbed their way up, only for many of them to fall and only one was deemed suitable because it climbed its way out of The Abyss. It makes more sense than TPK picking one out of thousands of Vessels and tossing the rest away like trash. How would he even keep all of those Vessels in secret without anybody knowing, anyway?
@@tyblob9059 Pretty sure his plan was to stop the radiance before all of the kingdom was infected which failed.
Turns out, Pale King is a good guy, but one thing he forgot: *NEVER* anger a Goddess
I think one of the main reasons people hate him is cause of white palace and path of pain cause he made them and pretty much everyone HATES those things
haha buzzsaws go brr
I love that plataforming part, white palace and path of pain
@@YexprilesteR white palace is fine I guess path of pain is too hard imo
I mean you can sense it from the music that plays in the white palace. After all the sacrifices, he saw his end coming so he hid himself in a forgotten palace to die in peace.
There is so many things that you cant entirely forgive him for (I do forgive him) but you can understand his path of pain
honestly, a well written tragic character
but to explain his sacrifices, i'll explain this
so your kingdom encounters a infection, and so your king is faced with a choice to stop the virus, kill his people, including you, or kill his own children
honestly its a hard heart breaking choice and the fact that you survived implies that much pain he inflicted on himself to save his people
the fact everyone is ignoring, thanks.
he could have just done a big brain move and killed the virus so everyone's happy
@what in the world its a joke
@@lyndon4610 *reees in intangible dream goddess*
@what in the world Probably the exact same way that we do in the true ending if I had to guess.
Mfer probably would've thrown hands with her himself if he thought it was an option, probably didn't wanna risk succumbing to the infection himself and giving the radiance a fucking god to use.
I’ve always seen the pale king as a good guy
in my opinion, he gets a 'you tried' star
How the fandom sees the Pale King : a child-murdering villain
How TheAsianLife sees the Pale King : a misunderstood heroic king
How I see the Pale King : BUZZSAW ENJOYER
He was a good guy and no one will convince me otherwise.
better than your primal aspid a#@
People forget the pale king is on your side
I never though the Pale King was bad, I just thought of him as the king of hallownest trying to save his kingdom
Amazing video honestly respect the points you made about how much he was giving to try an protect the bugs of hollownest
(Spoiler Rant /Thought)
As a side note, No Voice, No Mind, No Thoughts, could be one part to be a vessel to contain, and another part wanting to make something that wouldn't suffer for being an meant to hold a literal god of a plague that drove everyone back to bestial ways. He knew he would have to give up something but he never was noted to experiment on his own citizens, only trying to use his power to grant a mind to something hollow and empty, at best returning their vessels to the void was the best way he could let them go home to said void, after all when the game is beaten in most cases the Siblings relax and return to the void since their no longer bound by a determined goal that they were literally formed to complete. (Also sorry rant mode deactivated)
Lately I was thinking what if he raised a vessel and it suddenly hugged him, how devastated he would be.
Because I know that he and the White Lady both felt terrible about the vessels, and that he's not a heartless monster.
Because imagine raising a child, loving it, and then when the child expressed love to you you would have to abandon it because it isn't pure. That would be fucking horrible.
Honestly, god or not, I am amazed the dude still had affection for even one of his children after yeeting an incalculable amount of children into a hole.
There are at least billions down there.
Also, his plan actually DID work, he just didn’t find the final piece himself. His plan was to have the radiance contained by a truly hollow vessel. But, because of the nature of hallownest, he could not create an empty vessel. However, our vessel left hallownest, achieving a hollow mind, the one thing the void could not do.
He did succseed just one of his children finished the long job
Actually the pale king and the radiance are both victims and villains
The radiance didn't want to be forgotten but just went to far when trying to avoid it.
And the pale king... well, you said it
In the end they both commited one mistake. Not accepting their own end. PK did, but it was too late. And Radiance was forcefully dragged into the Void and torn apart.
The man hid himself, his castle, and all of his servants in the dream realm to hide from the radiance and abandoned his people, and your acting like him slowly roting away on his throne was a sacrifice.
Loved the video! One thing you didn't bring up however which I think would be important is how he left hallownest once the infection got to bad. He brings his Castle and himself, but nobody else.
Apart from that, I never saw him as a Villan, and I really liked this video! Great job bud 👍
I feel like it’s kinda unfair how people hate the pale king but not?? The radiance as much isn’t she the main antagonist of the story?? She infected thousands of bugs cuz they stopped worshipping her?? Seems a bit of an over action if the moth tribe chose to go to the pale king and not her.
Not to mention, if you dream nail the infected their enslaved minds seem to imply they are suffering and in pain
completly agree with everything here. what pk did wasn't ok by any means. but if you think about his situation, what the hell do you do if your kingdom starts to rot and die from an angry moth spreading her infection? also, I highly doubt he didn't feel anything while sacrificing thousands of his children. I think that he had to force himself to be numb to them, but in the end he couldn't help himself with having affection for atleast one of his children
Whaddya think about the theories about Pale being alive or reincarnated or some shiz?
The matpat one was dumb, but other than that it was mostly left up to interpretation. No way to know for sure lol
@@TheAsianLifeisYellow Ngl I'd love him to live. That'd be an ultimate chad moment.
that one was proven false
@@TheAsianLifeisYellow I think there is a theory that he is bardoon
But idk
This is a really well said explanation, it really changed how I view the pale king.
One of the things i love about hollow knight is the lack of a cookie cutter "this charactet is good, this one is evil" thing. If the pale king isnt a villian, he is certainly EXTREMELY flawed. Not worse than the radiance in my opinion, but i personally wouldnt say he was good either.
I think people understate the importance of his phrase "no cost too great". His priority above all is the protection of the bugs of hallownest from the Radiance, and will do ANYTHING in his power to achieve that even if it destroys him emotionally.
I wonder if the Pale King sacrificed himself because he sensed there were still some vessels that might be strong enough and if he was alive, he didn't wanna risk getting emotional with them like he did with THK.