Very excited that all these options are in one place for a real life comparison! I would love to see an out of box comparison of C50 vs C40 with the exact same speaker setup and external amps. Any sonic differences would be solely attributed by component differences between units. As for most interesting comparisons, would love to hear about your experiences with DIRAC vs Audyssey MultEQ X. Realistically no one can expect you or any reviewer to purchase unit-specific licenses that cost hundreds of dollars each, but if we can limit it to one unit and two licenses (DIRAC vs MultEQ X), it would be more attainable and more helpful. If patreons help subsidize, would you be able to do a more detailed and thorough review, truly optimizing both solutions for a final consensus… thoughts??
Jon, Thanks for all your videos. They are very informative. I'd like a "deep dive" into the components in these receivers, specifically: 1. on the DAC board once the signal leaves the DAC and is now analog does it go to the amplifier boards or are there op amps in between? And if op amps, what ones are used as these can make a difference in sound output. 2. the amplifier boards I understand all have discrete transistors in the final (output) stage of the amplifier, but from the photos I've seen I don't see discrete transistors in the input stage of the amplifier or in the second stage (usually the voltage gain stage). How is Denon and Marantz handling these first two stages of amplification? 3) The Denon 4800 (and Marantz 40) have AL32 processing, the 3800 and Marantz 50 do not - I believe the difference is in the processor - what processor is being used? I did see a slide that mentioned the ADI Sharc Griffin Lite XP 21593 but is it the same for all units or is the 4800 using a feature in that processor and the 3800 not? It is interesting that Yamaha has gone to a 64 bit processor from Qualcomm (a QCS407 chip) and as far as I know quite a powerful processor - more so than the more typically used Sharc line. Thanks, for all your information.
Thanks Jon for video, your content is always amazing.. looking forward to detailed comparison of denon x4800h ND marantz cinema 40.. and pls in future add yamaha rx a6a or a8a for review 🙏
Awesome review and looking forward to the comparison and possibly Audyssey vs Dirac. You’re dishing up comparisons that everybody has been waiting for and that’s exciting!
I have the 4800 and 3800 for this plus have been using the rz50 for 6 months. One thing in find is the Dirac experience is pretty different between the Onkyo and Denons in terms of how the calibration works .I find the Denon dirac more quirky. Guess they need to improve things but it doesn't give the greatest impression of dirac for someone trying it for the first time
So glad this approach is working. I did find that Dirac is a step up over the built-in Audyssey from both the ability to see and adjust results and sound quality. -Jon
I have an original 4800 Denon AVR. I love the sound, but I never found the remote to be user-friendly and the manuel as well. It still works and sound great to this day.
The Integra DRX 8.4 has my interest the most compared to other 2022/2023 offerings. At least on paper the Integra 8.4 is a good value and DIRAC packed in at no extra charge.
The Integra DRX 8.4 has may attention as well. With the Onkyo TX-RZ50 performing so well and available under $1,500 is a winning. Curious how much better they do with their flagship. -Jon
I bought the Cinema 50, Why do you think the DIRAC implantation doesn't sound as good as the other units? I still think the Marantz is the best looking of the lot.
Dirac made the unit sound better and worked just fine. With or without Dirac (or Audyssey) turned on I have been preferring the other model’s sound quality over the Cinema 50. I am hoping that these other Denon and Marantz models with fair better. It could be an issue only with the unit I received- Jon
I will - got point. I have for some videos, but not all. Price is so important in the decision process, it can't be left out and should be covered up front. -Jon
Am I correct that Audyssey´s max. sampling rate in those AVRs is 48khz? What about Dirac? If it´s also 48khz, is there any point in using Hires-music, while using room correction?
I do not know. I have read some reports that suggest that you will get clipping over 1.4V if the internal amplifiers are still active. Disconnecting the internal amps resolve that issue. Jon
According to ASR the 4800h can go to 2v without clipping. The 3800h seems to clip at 1.4v although the are arguments about how Amir is using the term clipping in the review
Yes - I purchase but only keep what I want to retain for long term evaluation. I return most. As these were all Amazon purchases, returns are easy. -Jon
Jon, I'm excited and waiting for these comparison against the Onkyo RZ50. I have mostly decided to go with the Onkyo RZ50 due to its price + features+Dirac availability. I wanted to know if Denon x3880h is worth the extra price to go instead of RZ50 from your tests. Thank you.
@@gabrieltechreviews8185 Thank you . I may not use 2 or more subwoofer. I agree with you that Onkyo RZ50 is value for money with its features. It ticks everything as of now . The only thing I may miss is the Auro 3D which is a nice to have but not required for me .
@Rajan Kannan yeah. I got the 4800h now for review and height the 3800h as well plus I have been using the rz50 for 6 months now. All going for a comparison soon. One thing I really like about the Denon is Dynamic EQ because I don't listen to loud levels, I don't need to have multiple house curve.
@@gabrieltechreviews8185 Awesome . You got the best receivers for your testing & reviews . I would like to follow your review video on this . As of now , you think RZ50 competes equally good against both the Denon receivers you have at the moment ? 🤔
@Rajan Kannan I do feel it does. Honestly if it wasn't for the lack of dual subwoofer output, I wouldn't move to denon buy I really need a clean subwoofer output for my Hovereze platform and the Denon has a dedicated TR output just for that which is awesome. Also I like dynamic EQ too so for that reason I am beginning to lean towards Denon but it's hard to justify the price difference and extra money for Dirac if you don't need 2 subwoofers (and prefer to not use the very powerful minidsp)
I like the sound of the new Sony 7000 over the denon 3800. I'm wishy-washy with and an untrained ear but I noticed the difference, it was more dynamic and clear. Without a/b-ing them I would be happy with either, I still like the 3800 especially for the auro3D. Incedentally, I run both of them together with the 3800 in auro and the 7000 in atmos for 7.5.12
I am getting ready to bring in the Sony 7000 for my October reviews. I will a/b against Marantz Cinema 50, which is similar enough to Denon x3800. - Jon
@@ripewave There are so many options, at least 3 that would be so time consuming. Off the top of my head the options for studio/dynamic/something. It's a sound mode I guess that can be applied. Then there is the auto format option that effects the ability to reach other options, reading the forums a few months ago there are varriables tied to it from what I understand. Another option is the phantom locations movement of speaker placement options, all kinds of stuff there. There is the 360 dsp option, to me sounds good with and without. It effects bass for some and I don't mind adjusting, some don't want to hassle. There is some option to make all speakers "similar range" or something, I can't remember the term. But what is that, do we notice? I see people picking certain options and I don't know if they are a/bing and how they choose. Good news to me no matter the options it all sounded great. All this despite the multiple options for center stage. Btw I found after playing with those center stage options I preferred having more data come from the front. Historically, I assumed I preferred more surround channels but after going back and forth I preferred to pick up more sounds coming from the front because it gave me more info. Alternatively, I found I was satisfied with less rear info coming in cause it's usually not that important to the movie as the front. There are some other options I'd have to review in the manual to jog my memory but how they all interact effect each other is mind boggling, and would be so time consuming to test.
Very excited that all these options are in one place for a real life comparison!
I would love to see an out of box comparison of C50 vs C40 with the exact same speaker setup and external amps. Any sonic differences would be solely attributed by component differences between units.
As for most interesting comparisons, would love to hear about your experiences with DIRAC vs Audyssey MultEQ X. Realistically no one can expect you or any reviewer to purchase unit-specific licenses that cost hundreds of dollars each, but if we can limit it to one unit and two licenses (DIRAC vs MultEQ X), it would be more attainable and more helpful. If patreons help subsidize, would you be able to do a more detailed and thorough review, truly optimizing both solutions for a final consensus… thoughts??
Thanks Jon, great live stream. I have the Cinema 40 that I am still getting dialed in a little at a time.
Jon, Thanks for all your videos. They are very informative. I'd like a "deep dive" into the components in these receivers, specifically: 1. on the DAC board once the signal leaves the DAC and is now analog does it go to the amplifier boards or are there op amps in between? And if op amps, what ones are used as these can make a difference in sound output. 2. the amplifier boards I understand all have discrete transistors in the final (output) stage of the amplifier, but from the photos I've seen I don't see discrete transistors in the input stage of the amplifier or in the second stage (usually the voltage gain stage). How is Denon and Marantz handling these first two stages of amplification? 3) The Denon 4800 (and Marantz 40) have AL32 processing, the 3800 and Marantz 50 do not - I believe the difference is in the processor - what processor is being used? I did see a slide that mentioned the ADI Sharc Griffin Lite XP 21593 but is it the same for all units or is the 4800 using a feature in that processor and the 3800 not? It is interesting that Yamaha has gone to a 64 bit processor from Qualcomm (a QCS407 chip) and as far as I know quite a powerful processor - more so than the more typically used Sharc line. Thanks, for all your information.
Thx Jon. Looking forward to your listening tests of these products.
Keep em’ coming brother. 👍🏻
Great job! Knob feel!!!! 😁
Thanks Jon for video, your content is always amazing.. looking forward to detailed comparison of denon x4800h ND marantz cinema 40.. and pls in future add yamaha rx a6a or a8a for review 🙏
Awesome review and looking forward to the comparison and possibly Audyssey vs Dirac. You’re dishing up comparisons that everybody has been waiting for and that’s exciting!
I have the 4800 and 3800 for this plus have been using the rz50 for 6 months. One thing in find is the Dirac experience is pretty different between the Onkyo and Denons in terms of how the calibration works .I find the Denon dirac more quirky. Guess they need to improve things but it doesn't give the greatest impression of dirac for someone trying it for the first time
@@gabrieltechreviews8185 how would you compare the sound quality and signature between the units? Which receiver do you prefer and why?
So glad this approach is working. I did find that Dirac is a step up over the built-in Audyssey from both the ability to see and adjust results and sound quality. -Jon
I have an original 4800 Denon AVR. I love the sound, but I never found the remote to be user-friendly and the manuel as well. It still works and sound great to this day.
I agree the remote could better. And yes - it is a well rounded model with good sound output. -Jon
Thanks Jon, great comparison as always. Looking forward to some Yamaha comparisons and review of YPAO.
I am too.
Hi, my suggestion for measurement is a heat measuring. Various reasons to choose one that heats less. 3800h runs really hot, wondering how 4800h does
I need to figure out a consistent and accurate way to measure the temperature. -Jon
The Integra DRX 8.4 has my interest the most compared to other 2022/2023 offerings. At least on paper the Integra 8.4 is a good value and DIRAC packed in at no extra charge.
The Integra DRX 8.4 has may attention as well. With the Onkyo TX-RZ50 performing so well and available under $1,500 is a winning. Curious how much better they do with their flagship. -Jon
Got a x4800 and 16khz eq doesnt respond much! Whats happening?
I bought the Cinema 50, Why do you think the DIRAC implantation doesn't sound as good as the other units? I still think the Marantz is the best looking of the lot.
Dirac made the unit sound better and worked just fine. With or without Dirac (or Audyssey) turned on I have been preferring the other model’s sound quality over the Cinema 50. I am hoping that these other Denon and Marantz models with fair better. It could be an issue only with the unit I received- Jon
Please start adding the price (at the time of recording) for everything you ever review.
I will - got point. I have for some videos, but not all. Price is so important in the decision process, it can't be left out and should be covered up front. -Jon
Am I correct that Audyssey´s max. sampling rate in those AVRs is 48khz? What about Dirac? If it´s also 48khz, is there any point in using Hires-music, while using room correction?
Do you know how many volts RMS the Preouts on the Denon's are capable of?
I do not know. I have read some reports that suggest that you will get clipping over 1.4V if the internal amplifiers are still active. Disconnecting the internal amps resolve that issue. Jon
According to ASR the 4800h can go to 2v without clipping.
The 3800h seems to clip at 1.4v although the are arguments about how Amir is using the term clipping in the review
do you buy by yourself this receivers for your video reviews ? you can keep it after the review ?
Yes - I purchase but only keep what I want to retain for long term evaluation. I return most. As these were all Amazon purchases, returns are easy. -Jon
Jon, I'm excited and waiting for these comparison against the Onkyo RZ50. I have mostly decided to go with the Onkyo RZ50 due to its price + features+Dirac availability. I wanted to know if Denon x3880h is worth the extra price to go instead of RZ50 from your tests. Thank you.
The rz50 is a much better value unless you need more that one subwoofer output and don't want to deal with minidsp
@@gabrieltechreviews8185 Thank you . I may not use 2 or more subwoofer. I agree with you that Onkyo RZ50 is value for money with its features. It ticks everything as of now . The only thing I may miss is the Auro 3D which is a nice to have but not required for me .
@Rajan Kannan yeah. I got the 4800h now for review and height the 3800h as well plus I have been using the rz50 for 6 months now.
All going for a comparison soon.
One thing I really like about the Denon is Dynamic EQ because I don't listen to loud levels, I don't need to have multiple house curve.
@@gabrieltechreviews8185 Awesome . You got the best receivers for your testing & reviews . I would like to follow your review video on this . As of now , you think RZ50 competes equally good against both the Denon receivers you have at the moment ? 🤔
@Rajan Kannan I do feel it does. Honestly if it wasn't for the lack of dual subwoofer output, I wouldn't move to denon buy I really need a clean subwoofer output for my Hovereze platform and the Denon has a dedicated TR output just for that which is awesome.
Also I like dynamic EQ too so for that reason I am beginning to lean towards Denon but it's hard to justify the price difference and extra money for Dirac if you don't need 2 subwoofers (and prefer to not use the very powerful minidsp)
I like the sound of the new Sony 7000 over the denon 3800. I'm wishy-washy with and an untrained ear but I noticed the difference, it was more dynamic and clear. Without a/b-ing them I would be happy with either, I still like the 3800 especially for the auro3D. Incedentally, I run both of them together with the 3800 in auro and the 7000 in atmos for 7.5.12
I am getting ready to bring in the Sony 7000 for my October reviews. I will a/b against Marantz Cinema 50, which is similar enough to Denon x3800. - Jon
@@ripewave There are so many options, at least 3 that would be so time consuming. Off the top of my head the options for studio/dynamic/something. It's a sound mode I guess that can be applied.
Then there is the auto format option that effects the ability to reach other options, reading the forums a few months ago there are varriables tied to it from what I understand.
Another option is the phantom locations movement of speaker placement options, all kinds of stuff there.
There is the 360 dsp option, to me sounds good with and without. It effects bass for some and I don't mind adjusting, some don't want to hassle.
There is some option to make all speakers "similar range" or something, I can't remember the term. But what is that, do we notice? I see people picking certain options and I don't know if they are a/bing and how they choose. Good news to me no matter the options it all sounded great.
All this despite the multiple options for center stage. Btw I found after playing with those center stage options I preferred having more data come from the front. Historically, I assumed I preferred more surround channels but after going back and forth I preferred to pick up more sounds coming from the front because it gave me more info. Alternatively, I found I was satisfied with less rear info coming in cause it's usually not that important to the movie as the front.
There are some other options I'd have to review in the manual to jog my memory but how they all interact effect each other is mind boggling, and would be so time consuming to test.