@@89turbomk3 u don't get the point ! Dassault with the USAF budget during 40 years and i'm quite sure that french could already travel to mars ! USAF spends this huge budget since decades! the so called unbeatable F22 has never ever defeat the Rafale, but the Rafale did! aviation is a french word
Honesty International actually i do get the point, because humans and there Technological Advancement still is nowhere capable of traveling to Mars even if Combine all of the money in the world. Hopefully you’ll get my point
@@89turbomk3 relevant answer! in 1939, it was unthinkable to send rockets into space and with huge budget Nazis were sending V2 in 1944! so with huge budget from 1960 to 2019 as USAF, Dassault would be capable of travelling to Mars. Hopefully you’ll get my point :)
Haha c'est tellement bon de voir ce genre d'image ou on entend le pilote Français se prendre plein de G dans la tronche pour ne pas perdre le dogfight. Bien joué aux pilotes vous n'avez plus rien à prouver avant un bon moment, vous êtes les meilleurs tout simplement ! Surtout quand on sait que le Rafale est censé être un avion d'une génération en dessous du raptor...
en vérité c'est plus compliquer 4 ou 5 c'est simplement un concept inventer par les américains pour garder un semblant d'avance technologique,c'est basé sur la date de mise en oeuvre du projetX,ensuite évidement ils sont en avance puisqu'ils ont commencés via les dollars du lobby militaro industriel qui règne en Dieu au Usa!et se définir comme inventeur et fabricant d'une arme de nouvelle génération!!c'est aussi bête que ça,et les autre pays peuvent ou pas suivre dans l'investissement de tel ou tel projet,sachant que pour la France elle n'est pas manipulée ou dirigée par ce genre de lobby!nous faisons juste ce qu'il faut quand il faut!!mercià oui le Rafale est de ce fait un avion de 5eme génération à cette date comme le Raptor car en constante évolution,merci.
En fait les américains ont inventé une génération d'avion et ils ont mis que les leurs dedans. Du coup ils pouvaient dire "nos avions sont les meilleurs de leur génération " 😂😂
+arno222444 The French are not being invited back because they behave like assholes. Everyone knows Red Flag is a no holds barred bring your best environment. That means, you use your very best kit, your radar in war reserve mode, same for missiles, etc. Everyone does this, the Americans, the Brits, the Israelis, the Aussies, the Indians, everyone. But not the French. They sit there operating in very limited modes soaking up everyone else's emissions and using that to improve their own kit to gain more sales (the French procurement model being designed around foreign sales for funding). They'd been warned twice to knock it off. They did it again in '13, so no more invites. It pisses every other participant off. As for this video, MiG-17s shot down F-4s and no one would claim the MiG was more advanced or a better aircraft. Every dog has its day. Many of these exercises are scripted. It could have been a defensive BFM exercise for the -22 which requires the pilot to execute to perfection to not get shot down. It's a testament to the reputation of the F-22 that everyone that can get one on gun camera (not very often) literally busts a nut with excitement. As a substitute they now get a very limited tripartite exercise with the Brits at Langley. Sort of like probation.
+hckyplyr9285 lol one wonders who is the asshole in history? ^^ France is just militarily independent, she strives to have an army and a material just by her and built by her even despite the world who speaks ill of it
a another thing : France have some of best fighter pilots in the world with one of the highest flying time ratio per pilots in the world (more than RAF pilots)
Tha goes for Greeks and 5 years ago the Turks before the coup attempt (the got half of Turkish pilots to jail )Only the iconic dogfights they do every day is more than enough
Le Rafale a clairement eu son kill, il a eu le temps de tirer un Fox 2 une 1ère fois, qui aurait sûrement touché, et à la fin de la vidéo il l'a gardé dans sa visée un long moment, avant de décrocher et finir l'exercice. Je comprends rien à ce que le gars dit à la fin par contre, dommage. On voit bien que le F22 n'a aucun réservoir sous les ailes également pendant le dogfight. Après, il y a sûrement dû avoir plusieurs engagements, peut-être certains avec des réservoirs, qui sait. Assez dur de savoir qui dit vrai, sachant que chaque parti annonce des résultats complètement différents. En tout cas merci pour le partage, c'est assez rare d'avoir des vidéos de dogfight moderne, c'est vraiment impressionnant.
Il n'a pas "clairement" eut son kill. La réussite du FOX2 est hautement discutable, et son gun kill est également "capillotracté". Cela ne prouve rien mis à part que le Rafale peut rivaliser en close... certainement pas qu'il est meilleur. Le seul prob ... c'est que de nos jours, ce n'est pas en close que sa se joue. Et là, le 22 a un avantage indéniable.
Dee-Jay Oui merci, je n'ai jamais dit que ça prouvait quoi que ce soit sur qui est meilleur en quoi. En revanche je pense qu'il a clairement eu son kill à la fin, il n'aurait pas mis fin à l'exercice comme ça autrement.
Ce n'est pas tout a fait l'avis de mes amis qui sont également sur Rafale et -5. A la fin je ne suis pas sûr que ce sois lui qui réclame le terminate. (?) Je ne connais pas les indicatifs, mais d’abord c'est "confirme terminate" ... ensuite j'ai l'impression qu'il s'adresse au gestionnaire de zone ou au contrôle pour annoncer le fin de celui ci pour les deux avions et "request to perfom a n ..." ? là on sais pas ... perform quoi? an RTB ... another set up ? a new set up ... ?
Dee-Jay Si ça peut t'aider, de ce que j'arrive à décrypter a la fin, il répond à l'AWACS on dirait et lui demande de répéter une info ("say again your last"... quelque chose), et termine par "confirm [...] from target, back to AirMax (le nom d'un checkpoint ou de l'AWACS peut-être justement), P1 terminate, request terminate.
4:34 - Airmax copy … confirm your (last? xxxx? ) - Copy. - Say again your last for Airmax. - Say again your last for Airmax, unreadable (?), Black2 - Last fight copy! - Confirm we perform terminate? - Black2, Airmax, 3-1 terminate. Là il change peut etre de poste avec le contolre ou le gestionaire de zone (?) ... ou pas ... je ne sais pas. … Request terminate. - I request to terminate and perform a n ... Pour moi c’est le 22 qui demande la fin de l'engagement et le Rafale qui le relai. (pas sûr à 100%, il nous manque l’écoute.)
congrants to the French pilot.Very good job.Moυ θυμησε εναν δικο μας πιλοτο που ειχε στο φοξ3 τον τουρκο και ειπε θα τον ξεσκισω τον μπινε.Παντα τετοια....
Virgile Dobrowolski Personne à part les militaires n'ont accès aux rapports de mission, donc si vous pensez lire de vrais rapports sur Internet vous êtes totalement naïf. En revanche le fait que le rafale ne soit plus invité au red flag soit disant, celon les américains, à cause du système SPECTRA qui aurait été utilisé pour récupérer des informations sur les autres chasseurs de l'OTAN est un fait, donc avant de faire le "monsieur je connais tout et moi je suis informé", merci de réfléchir 2 minutes
L'article associé est très bien fait. Il ne dit pas que le Rafale est le meilleur mais qu'en combat rapproché il se défend plus que bien, même face au F-22 dont le premier atout semble être la furtivité.
You forget the impressive SU27/35, F16, Gripen and Eurofighter which to me just looks a little more dynamic in the air than Rafale. Is the Rafale wing restricting the dynamics?
@@mjames2117 No the delta wing (Rafale, Mirage 2000) gives much more agility to airplanes than the arrow wings like F-16's or F-18's for instance (only drawback is that deltawings are pretty unstable at low speed, explaining why Rafale has small front wings which correct the phenomenon). So if you have a double engine, together with front wings with a pretty small size, Rafale is clearly more agile than F16, Gripen and even Eurofighter (Rafale won easily dog fights over Eurofighter). Since SU27/35 do not have vectoriel thrusts, I doubt they would be much more agile than Rafale (which managed to get almost even with the F22 Raptor), although there is no track record of Rafale/Sukhoi dogfight as far as I know...
@@Agesilas2 Those are FAKE NEWS never happened, never will. We have a great plane, truly the best, tremendous pilots, great great peoples. That I can tell you.
@@arnaudsurribas2963 Ι just wondering...American pilots you say are the best...how do you know?? You never fight with someone your own size your pilots only bombing iraq, Syria,Libya and Serbia. How do you know that you are the best? indian pilots fight every day with pakistani pilots, chinese pilots fights every day with japanese and Greek pilots fight every day with turkish pilots how do you know you are the best without you compiting with anything in you size? Greek pilots were voted as the best in the world at the NATO Tactical Leadership Programme meeting (TLP 2019-1). They were recognised for their interceptions, long-range bombardment and strikes against war ships under extreme weather conditions.
@@Klliansimabras Les actifs + réservistes de l'armée turque = la population totale de la Grèce, tu ajoutes le gap technologique sur les drones etc je vois mal les grecques s'en sortir
Tout comme Bugatti refusera toujours de reconnaître publiquement qu'il existe mieux et moins cher que leur Veyron, les US ne reconnaîtront jamais officiellement que leur invincible F-22 puisse perdre face a un Rafale bien moins cher. Fierté Nationale, quand tu nous tient...
Sur quels critères existe t'il mieux que Bugatti? Le confort d'une Bugatti face à une Koenigsegg est incomparable par exemple. Et puis il y a aussi l'image de marque/luxe qui entre en jeu.
@@Quatuux oh ta gueule ici on parle d'avion de chasse pas de voiture de luxe et on appel sa une métaphore re vois tes programme de 4ieme avant de marquer un commentaire qui na rien a voir avec celui d'au dessu
Je pense que en supériorité aérienne le F22 est meilleur, en polyvalence le rafale est meilleur. Un F22 c'est fait pour détruire avant même d'être vu, les dogfight existent plus de nos jours
ALright everybody pay attention. This is how you pronounce 'RAFALE': RA-FALE --> 2 syllable word --> 'A' is prounnouced 'AH' as in 'ARM'. The 'E' at the end is silent. RAFALE means 'Burst of fire' in the military shooting sense and 'Gust' of wind in the meteorological sense.
ça me rappelle un vieux docu sur "les avions du futur" où on voyais une toute petite escadrille de 8 f-22 poutrer à elle seule une flotte de 30 rafales et su-35 flanker avec une seule perte à la fin x)
Un bon dessin animé américain très marrant. Quand je l'ai vu, je me suis demandé quel machine ils avaient inventé, puis plus ça allait, plus je rigolais. Je ne suis pas un spécialiste de l'aviation mais cette bonne propagande américaine est tout à fait détectable, on se serait cru dans indepandance day. Remarquable reportage-animé!!!
***** t'es complètement con ou tu fais exprès? Je te parle d'un ancien documentaire animé "les avions du futur"... suis la conversation avant de me parler bisounours, facile d'agresser les gens derrière un écran, je ne suis pas un spécialiste de l'aviation comme je te l'ai dis, mais la propagande américaine ça je connais un peu... Je connais aussi le crochet du droit et le direct du gauche si tu veux des précisions sur mes compétences... Je te conseil donc de regarder le documentaire susnommé avant d'ouvrir ta putain de grande gueule et peut-être connard, que tu pourra venir t'exprimer.
***** très bien si tu t'en fou de la discussion du haut, ferme bien ta gueule et fais pas chier le monde. Apprends à tirer au 12 et pas sur une pauvre cible. t'as quel âge tas de merde... minable...t'es le 1er à répondre à cette discussion, t'es vraiment un vrai minable, t'as que ça à foutre... t'as pas vu que tu répondais à adam fett... va dormir.
juckclie Pour ce qu'il est capable de faire il vaut son prix, il n'y a aucun aucun avion qui n'est capable de faire la même chose que lui. Et quand on voit l'Eurofighter qui est moins capable et plus cher, le Rafale a plutôt un bon prix. Mais oui peu de pays peuvent se le permettre, et l'influence américaine n'aide pas.
au final les américina sboycotte le rafale et le mirage 2000 car ils se sentent menacés, genre le Gripen acheté par le l'Inde et la Suisse alors que ces avions sont aussi efficace qu'une brique lancé dans une vitre blindée merci pour le clone (raté) du F16 co produit avec les ricains
@@bastitoutouvolaille9228 He has full lock on for a FOX-2 k!ll at 2:52 but is still in FOX-3 mode _(Can be seen left of the weapon list in the inferior part of the screen)_ He also has a full lock on for a GUN k!ll at 4:50 and is in GUN mode, but chose to deviate to avoid any risk of collision rather than firing _(he could've fired, their weapon systems were infrared, not real ones)_ There are other opportunities that are up for debate, namely a FOX-3 early on, but these two leave absolutely no doubt Also keep in mind that this was a joint exercice, not a competition _(although regarded as such by many later on because of the Rafale win that sparked a controvery in the US)_ Hence both air force sent pilotes in need of training that made mistakes, not their best elements _(the french pilot for instance wouldve missed the k!ll at __2:52__ because not in the apropriate weapon mode)_
Nothing against the rafale, it’s a great fighter. But of course a dose of reality; the f22 in this exercise shot down 6 rafale’s before this incident. And then of course this French pilot was able to achieve this victory through subjecting himself to incredible G’s of force, you can hear him struggling not to pass out in the video. This was something the American pilot wasn’t willing to do in a training exercise. Of course there is little to dispute the notion that the f22 is more manoeuvrablethan the rafale and superior in just about every other aspect for that matter
@jcwalker If you think that f22 wasn't pulling some serious Gs as well, you're deluding yourself. Fact is the f22's true advantage is BVR. In CQ the better pilot will win this fight 9 times outta 10.
@@King-mj2bn true that perhaps the biggest factor in a dogfight is pilot skill, but of course being in a faster and more manoeuvrable jet may be just as important. You can see from the video that the f22 has started out in a handicapped position relative to the Rafale. It’s unlikely in a real world scenario that an f22 would find itself in a disadvantageous position considering it’s all-aspect stealth. It’s hard to imagine any amount of pilot skill would save a rafale in a disadvantaged position relative to an f22.
Ni les ricains , ni les anglais ne sont venus chercher une revanche depuis. Les ricains etaient un peu sur d'eux, ca arrive. L'enjeu etait d'abaisser le rafale face aux EAU. Ils ont donc envoyé ce qu'il avaient de mieux. C'etait un peu optimiste. Les anglais ont interdiction de croiser le fer avec le rafale depuis. Je crois pas que sur la planete y'ait de pilote serieux qui se dit que les avions de Dassault sont des gadgets.
***** idem , même les ricains ne veulent plus rencontrer les avions Français , à chaque fois ça se passe mal pour eux , même aux émirats , un F22 a croisé le fer avec un Mirage 2000-9 , mal lui en à pris , le F22 s'est pris une raclée !! lol
***** j'ai corrigé , mirage 2000-9 des émirats au lieu d'un -5 , piloté par un pilote français a battu un 22 aux émirats à l'ATLC 2009 ! pas pub bien sur ! pour la rencontre F22 vs Rafale , la rencontre s'est terminée en " neutralisation mutuelle " !! mais il n'a jamais été dit qu'un Rafale fut battu , mais dans le rapport il est dit qu'un F22 a été une fois en position de faire un tir canon mais il n'a jamais était dit qu'un Rafale fut battu ! par contre , bizarrement , la victoire du Rafale contre le F22 de cette vidéo n'a jamais été mis au compteur du Rafale ! drôle , non ?
***** tu crois pas qu'en France ou dans le monde s'est pas la même chose ? toujours dur de reconnaitre nos erreurs ou nos faiblesses ! chez les allemands et leur ICE qui a déraillé , il roule toujours , notre tgv a déraillé plusieurs fois , quelques bosses sans plus , chez les allemands , des dizaines de morts et plus de 100 blessés ! l'ICE s'est replié en accordéon , le TGV non , il peut pas !
***** Arrete ! Les francais ne sont pas des extra terrestes. Ce truc est une vidéo. Je n'ai jamais dit que le rafale explosait un F22 dans toutes les circonstances. Juste que les ricains ont envoyé cet avion pour nous faire chier et qu'en combat rappoché, ca marchait pas. Aucun pays ne donne toutes les billes.Le Rafale n'est pas l'avion fabriqué pour bousiller le F22. En combat rapproché , il peut bousiller un F22 c'est tout, mais il ne va pas sur Mars Jamais tu ne verras de tests a longue distance car c'est confidentiel defense pour chaque pays. Aucun pays ne va donner a l'autre les capacités reelles de son avion. Aucun pays n'a non plus les vraies capacités a distance de l'avion d'en face. Il les soupsonnes c tout.
abinadvd la rencontre entre ces deux avions s'est faites sans spectra et sans le radar , les américains ont même dit que les Français étaient venus faire de l'espionnage afin de connaitre toutes les fréquences utiliser dans le F22 ( en brouillage ou en émission ) c'est toujours plus facile de brouiller des fréquences quand on les connait d'avance ! lol ! non , le Rafale est là pour vaincre ces ennemis ( disons les ennemis de la France ) ! de toutes façons , il est impossible pour un réacteur de Rafale d'aller dans l'espace , pour bruler du kérosène , il faut de l'oxygène ( l'air ) , dans l'espace , il y a le vide , donc dur dur d'aller sur mars !! mais les ingénieurs Français sont les meilleurs du monde , à tel point que les américains viennent en France les débaucher !!
At this distance stealth means nothing, of course Rafale could lock Raptor; Rafale is also incredibly agile fighter. Raptor has the edge thanks to TVC but as can be seen in this video where it cannot shake Rafale off his tail, it's not that big difference when enemy pilot is really good (like this Frenchie was)
@@89turbomk3 That's the purpose of a dogfight... The F22 never allowed the Rafale to get close BEHIND HIM. That's a lie. The F22 is just less manoeuvrable, yet it was made for dogfight, while the Rafale wasn't made for this purpose, what a failure for the F22.
Dear Archy, The fact that even an F-22 can be "foxed 2" by a Rafale, says something A. about the class of French fighter pilots in general and B. that the F-22 is not invulnerable, even to 10 year older technology. Should an F-22 jock think that, it would mean he becomes complacent and less alert. Lesson one from any war that has ever been fought: NEVER underestimate your opponent! How much more Vietnams and Afghanistans must the US encounter, before Americans take that lesson to heart?
americans never learn.they classified it.this was classified by usa but the french showed the actual scenario.same with A117 shot down in bosnian war. when F35 lost against all three mayor european fighters.
L'eurofighter nettement supérieur au rafale? Qu'ils peuvent être pas très futés ces anglo-saxons des fois! :p Si je me souviens bien le rafale est pas le meilleur chasseur d'Europe? Confirmé par les suisses je crois.
kira68200 Ce n'est même pas en théorie, c'est en pratique. Le F35 ne peut pas sortir sans un F22 pour l'escorter (dixit l'USAF), le Rafale bat le 22 ainsi que l'Eurofighter. Sans compter les F16, mais bon là c'est normal. En fait, jusqu'à présent et sauf erreur de ma part, tous les exercices ont donné le Rafale vainqueur. Les échecs commerciaux de Dassault sont incompréhensibles au vu des performances réelles et des notations des état-majors lors des évaluations en vue de choisir un nouvel avion à acheter.
j'ai mis en théorie parce qu'il y'a toujours des emmerdeurs pour dire que c'est faux ça c'est tout con, le rafale et le mirage 2000 ne se vendent pas parce que les pays intéressés subissent un monopole des américains et comme ces derniers se sentent menacés il les boycottent voila pourquoi nos avions ne se vendent pas :)
Il y a clairement une pression US pour refourguer leur F35 virtuel, mais c'est parfois le Saab Gripen qui a été choisi... pas compris la décision suisse... Tout ça me laisse penser qu'il faudrait une industrie européenne de l'armement comme on l'a déjà pour l'aviation civile. L'UE dépense un fric monstre pour entretenir une flotte de bonne qualité mais composée d'avions trop variés. www.lopinion.fr/blog/secret-defense/monde-s-arme-alors-que-l-occident-desarme-11598 Si on produisait ensemble, on vendrait déjà sur notre marché intérieur (très gros: 2618 avions de combat www.flightglobal.com/airspace/media/reports_pdf/world-air-forces-2013-101015.aspx) et l'export en serait facilité. Mais bon, vu comment les élections européennes se profilent... je doute que les projets ambitieux soient possibles...
le Gripen est à la base un clone de F16 c'est une grosse bouse mais du coup les ricains sont content parce que c'est pas des avions français et oui mais à ce moment la faudrait faire mieux que l'Eurofighter qui est quand même pas terrible
C'est entre 4:50 et 4:53 qu'il y a "kill Raptor" (deux fois de suite) au canon pour le Rafale !! Par contre, vu l'angle de tir, la distance trop courte et la trajectoire latérale rapide du F22 au moment du 'Fox2' (3:07), le 'splash Raptor' était tout sauf garanti. C'est bien au canon que le F22 est abattu. Un grand moment de combat aérien, et une sacrée prouesse des ailes françaises ! Bravo !!
Both aircraft are excellent fighters, but are worlds apart. The Rafale's delta wing shape is what allowed it to maneuver around and get behind the F-22 at very low speeds (without stalling). This however is a dogfight and the F-22 was not designed for this situation, but BVR. In a real world scenario, the F-22 would have detected the Rafale at 130 mi and fired an AMRAAM at 90 mi. The Dassault would be dead before he even knew he had an enemy.
it s not because you detect the rafale before that you can destroy it , rafale has the spectra countermeasures sytem . not so easy to destroy it by missile .
No at all because when f22 lauch the "amraam, it bécome detectable and even in "wings of war" which is full for the USA, F22 never touch a Rafale in direct missile shots. Rafale leave the fight safe. Only in dogfight they won but as you can see on this movie which show the reality, it s wrong so. I leave you to make a conclusion.
F-22 not designed for dogfight? This means the american taxpayer is this dumb he paid for a useless VECTOR THRUST ! ! ! You should also remember that shape and materials are not the only ways to achieve "stealth". This word, and the "5th gen fighter" too, a pure commercial propaganda. To avoid being detected by radars is a constant of warplanes design since the WWII, with bombers releasing stripes of fin metal sheets whose lenght was calculated to jam enemy radar's frequencies. Today's electronic jamming paired with low IR signature engined add to the Rafale's intrinsic relatively low-level, but way cheaper, shape and materials stealth which already ensure a division of the radar signature by a factor of at least 10 when compared with a Mirage 2000 (same class as the F-16) , this combination makes her way harder to detect than most of people may believe. The one and only reason for the Rafale-bashing is our will to stay independent from a military point of view, period. Now, remember that military planes are seldom chosen for technical reason, you basically buy an alliance. In order to choose a plane instead of an ally, you need : a real need for effective weapons because you make war on your homeland, multiple foreign providers so that you get a B-plan, and a national plane, whatever bad or retarded it is as long as it flies and can be mass-produced on-demand as a C-plan. India has both (Russian planes, the locallly made Tejas and also a 5th-gen project) and you know what they eventually bought.
Sur une video de "ATE", il précise que sur ce coup là, le F-22 s'était fait accroché FOX 2 et ensuite verrouillé au tir canon !!! Et pan, au tapis le Raptor !!!
Don.t forget , rafale is a real multirole combat aircraft, highly maneuverable, at same level or higher in close combat wvr, which is a performance, against other aircrafts specialised in air superiority. US always developped fighters able to get superiority at lon range(F14, f4., etc, ) but in current operational theaters, identification confirmation is often required, very rare to engage at 90nm...then rafale is a good choice. I know frm rafale pilots that rafale often takes advantage on heavier us fighters during dogfights, and have excelent systems to fly very low and for air to ground. Rafale is a good choice for france, and shows a great efficiencein operations
Amazing flying by the pilot. But by using external tanks, the F-22 gave up maneuverability and more importantly, it's stealth capabilities. If the F-22 went stealth mode, without the external tanks, it's unlikely the Rafale pilot would have ever seen it on radar.
This video is similar to the final scene in Gladiator, where the Emperor stabs Maximus shortly before their final duel to "level the playing field" -- the F22 was designed around BVR combat. That's not to say it isn't a capable dogfighter (The Rafale scores no victories against it) but to trash the Raptor because it doesn't mop the floor with every other aircraft in a WW2 style dogfight is just ignorant.
***** The raptor stealth is only in transit, when it turns on his radar to he will be spotted by his opponents. The F22 is probably the best fighter in air to air but he is far from untouchable, especially against aircraft like the raphale. (The raphale has also stealth technologies.)
i dont know what you say but f-22 if that was real dogfight was dead ... i dont know what you say but in this video you just see the f-22 loosing 3 times but the pilot say that was killed only at the last ... we sew that video with my brother ... he is a pilot in greek airforce ... and he say that "rafale had 2 more momments to kill f-22 but on practice when you are aggresion you need more than one time kill to take it"
If it was real combat the Rafale would already be shot down lol. Easy to win when you pick the fight to suit the aircraft but a stealthy aircraft would shoot it down before it's even spotted.
Philippe MASSON Ouais sauf que c'est pas un jeu faut toujours se rappeler ça à l'esprit. Quand le pilote Français se prend plein G on sait très bien qu'il suffit d'une erreur et c'est fini ;)
Two great fighters, flexing muscles. But to me, this is irrelevant, because there is close to 0% chance that these two fighters will see each other in real combat. Other than that, great exercise.
If an aircraft fires from a distance, this gives the target aircraft time to act to avoid the missile. Missiles do not win every time. In future combat, fighter planes will be accompanied by drones. In case of difficulties, and even in normal cases, there will always be a drone placed as a mask to take enemy fire. It will ALWAYS come down to close combat, except against low quality armies.
the problem it's the americans don't accept to loose , and open your eyes the RAFALE is ONE BEST of the world too , NOT only the F22 , but don't worry we re allied and the F22 with RAFALE will make the best and dream team to protect us ,it's the objective why they built TO PROTECT US .
I love France, too. Very good ally goping way back to the very beginnings of the USA's creation. If it weren't for the French we wouldn't have been able to defeat the Brits. The Rafale might be able to detect the F-22 with its Spectra, just like how the F-22 uses its AN/ALR passive receiver, but detecting a plane and being able to lock onto it are different matters. ;) Peace.
The context: in that specific joint training mission, the f22 previously has operated at it's true intent (beyond visual range attacks) and reliably beat the brittish and french to zero. After the training proved in-effective for that reason, the training was re-designed to make the f22 engage in dog fights, which simply isnt its purpose.
Bullshit you completely made up. No F22 ever shot a Rafale in exercises, the rest were draws. F22 was designed as air superiority and that includes dogfighting, otherwise what is the point of having thrust vectoring?
@@lordtemplar9274 Bullshit yourself. Air Forces Monthly had an article, "The Big Fight", about the Advanced Tactical Leadership Course (ATLC) in its April 2010 issue. The successive article (same issue), "Justifiably Proud!", was an interview with Lt. Col. Fabrice Grandclaudon, Commander of EC 1/7. "AFM: You apparently said 'the Rafale rubbed F-22 - the most modern fighter of the USAF. During six encounters the F-22 hit its goal only once'. The 27th FS doesn't remember the engagements that way and say the F-22 scored several victories against Rafale. Did you offer DACT to the Raptors and did they decline? *I did not say we 'rubbed them', I said that there was only one shot claimed (ie a simulated kill) for the six that were set-up. I read in a recent issue of Air et Cosmos that it was two. As far as I am concerned, one or two shots of six Basic Fighter Manoeuvres (BFM) encounters is a victory for the F-22 but not an overwhelming one. Not like the one we claimed against the Typhoons after combat in Solenzara, Corsica during September (9 set-up: 8 to 1 for the Rafale*). The other set-ups versus F-22s were terminated for combat deck, an un-decisive situation or lack of fuel. We never shot them down, but we hope to do so soon since we are quite good opposition for them, and it is in the pilot's spirit not to give up!* Like almost every nation, we offered Beyond Visual Range DACT, of course, but the F-22 was only authorized to do BFM 1v1 Within Visual Range (WVR) versus foreign countries (except the UK, with whom they did not fight even in the BFMs). I wish we could have done so, but we didn't - which bring me back to Air et Cosmos, where its information about BVR engagement with AMRAAM in stealth mode is wrong: besides the fact that we did not even fly BVR vs F-22s! *F-22 was fitted with some specific device to increase their radar signature.* It enabled us to have contact with them during work ups for example. But that's not the point here."
Fritz you are correct. --> Aerospace Engineer Checking In :) TVC helps with Roll, Pitch, and Yaw rates as well as post stall control. But maneuvers like Cobra, Flat Spin, and 30+AOA aren't going to help in BFM where maintaining a high energy state is the key to victory. High AOA bleeds energy which will get you killed every time. Large control surfaces or canards can have the same effects of TVC at low speed, but in BFM you will be matched...which is what we observe in the video. Cheers!
If an aircraft fires from a distance, this gives the target aircraft time to act to avoid the missile. Missiles do not win every time. In future combat, fighter planes will be accompanied by drones. In case of difficulties, and even in normal cases, there will always be a drone placed as a mask to take enemy fire. It will ALWAYS come down to close combat, except against low quality armies.
De toute façon des f22 y en aura que 186 et au prix et temps d'entretient pour une heure de vol, les pilotes ricains sont pas prêt de devenir des caïds sur f22... LOL
@@Meemeec non il y en aura pas beaucoup plus une 30aine au mieux mais par contre grace a leurs disponibilités et faible coût d'heure de vol (pour un chasseur de ce type) ils vont cumulé bien plus d'heures de vols.
Let us ALL not forget the Raptor had a 6 to1 kill and beyond visual range and a 3to1 kill at visual range at the Red Flag operation. Hands down it was the best performing fighter there.
I don't know where you found these results but it's impossible that it's against the Rafale, the Rafale participated only once at Red Flag and the F-22 was not present.
neage59 Probably he meant against other participating aircrafts. Against Typhoons, a German pilot remarked it have excellent BVR capabilities. However, once they managed to close in, they have a 50-50 chance against the Raptor.
If you talk about F-22 vs Rafale there were 6 dogfights (no radar, no missiles, only with gun). We know that the F-22 won once, we don't know for the others, maybe the Rafale won the 5 others, maybe 5 draws. We also know that the Americans tried to hide the truth many times. The first time by saying the F-22 didn't participate to the dogfights. The second time by saying the F-22 was piloted by a rookie, the problem is that the F-22 was here for an airshow, nobody sends a rookie pilot to do an airshow. The third time they said the F-22 had external fuel tanks, Dassault published the pictures of the OSF of the Rafale to prove the contrary. And now we have a video to prove the F-22 had difficulty against the Rafale.
Plus serieusement, on m'enlevera pas de l'idee que si les ricains ont presenté leur F22 pour faire joujou contre le Rafale aux EAU, c'est qu'ils etaient surs de gagner. J'ai rien vu, j'y connais rien , mais je peux te dire qu'en haut de l'echelle militaire americaine on a compris qu'on avait fait une belle boulette. Donc , ce genre de confrontation n'aura pas lieu de si tot je crois, que ce soit en dogfight ou en combat lointain. Mais tout ca n'est pas tres serieux.
Enfin une chose est sure, c'est que les rafales sont vraiment opérationnels et remplissent tout un tas de missions, et pas en simulations eux . Par contre les F-XX, typhoons, SU-XX, hors aishows, on les voit pas briller,donc j'aime bcp les pseudo ingénieurs qui font des pronostics sur des specs et mettent des avions sur des piédestals par rapport au rafale, forcement, c'est un avion français donc largement moins bon .
of course YES it can supercruise with full missile , i think you underestimate RAFALE, because you don't understand FRENCH ,if you listen the pilot in the end . the rafale touched 2 times the F22 if it shooted with real missiles .F22 is not invincible,RAFALE can hold the head F22, and USAF was understood very well in this training race.
Rafale-F3R: It's good that the Rafale had some wins. No-one, on either side, improves if you win every time. Losing is the greatest incentive for correcting weakness & improvement. Ask any successful entrepreneur.
couilluss The Rafale is a VERY good lightweight fighter. People shitting on it are just idiots. Also, F-22 > Rafale in real world scenario. Not hating, just convinced the '22 wins even 2vs1's vs ANY 4-4.5 gen fighter 9 out of 10 times BVR.
Only jalousy, they just don't understand why a small country have a better aircraft, coz they know nothing about french History and french technology... Airbus, arian Space, etc... How comes ??! 😂 À small country ?! 😂
I disagree with 2 to 1 but agree with the outcome. And I'm French, I'm a Rafale fanboy etc. Rafale is omnirole, F22 a pure fighter: there is no arguments to be made. BUT : USA overmarkets it. There is a lot of propaganda in what they say. A 2 to 1 battle can't really exist because of the prices involved : the nation using F22 would need many categories of planes to complete their air capabilities. Whereas you need Rafale, logistics planes and a couple of radar plane and voila. No extra needs for specialised mecanics, specialised logistics etc. This is the best advantage of the Rafale over so many modern planes, if not most. I think the Rafale is in the top 5 planes in anything it does, whereas for exemple the F35 may be one of the best 5gen light bomber in the current world, or the F22 one of the best fighters (and all the great russian planes are superb !), but since you need other planes to accompany these birds, you need pilots, special mecanics, extra mecanical parts etc. With Rafale you need just Rafale stuff. Man, I love that plane. Seing it hooking a F22 is a joy, even in a high-fantasy scenario like that (the french text at the begining of the video specifies that ROE are unknown, so doesn't conclude ANYTHING). Because that just means that with tons of lucks and such an imaginary situation, a Rafale is not useless. Just this, nothing more. And that if Rafale was a US plane with US marketting, it would be qualified as the Rafael angel best at most things. Now, every fighters will be ugly drones in 10 years anyway, so both planes may be outdated sooner they we'd like :/
PS 2: This is not to say that the F-22 is not a superior aircraft. It is. But there's a prize on its head and a lot of competition heading its way (T50 PAK FA, J20, J31). So stay sharp USAF. Don't throw too much money down the F-35 drain (a pure bomb truck with great sensors and SA, but with the speed and maneuvrabilty of an oil tanker) and stay ahead in the air-air domain. That's where wars are won or lost.
IMHO The raptor wasn't being flown by an expert pilot. You can see at 4:50 it simply let The rafale locked on him. Also you can see the external fuel tanks called wings tanks, those obviously don't let raptor achieve his highest performance.
PS: It's not the tools you are given, it's how you use them. I hope the USAF will use them more wisely, than it did when it entered the Vietnam war, relying on AIM-7 and AIM-9 missiles allone. These would make the gun "obsolete." As we all know now, military strategists should be careful to declare anything obsolete. The proof of the pudding is in the eating, not in computer models and presumptions. The fog of war is thicker than mud. One must have experienced that in order to appreciate it.
C'est vraiment dommage de ne pas avoir fait la vidéo en anglais. Si c'est juste pour convaincre les français, c'est pas très utile... Beau travail néanmoins.
EA-18G Growler, old F-16, Mirage 2000, even A-10 Warthog had victories over F-22, maybe they do it just for fun or maybe F-22 is not that good in dogfight? who knows.
la limite de G dépend aussi du temps d'exposition. Un scientifique qui a étudié le premier la question (et d'on j'ai oublié le nom) a pris 40G pendant 2 secondes et s'en est sorti avec une cécité temporaire (moins d'une heure) et des bleus au niveau des ceintures de sécurité.
@@Lucifer-wz7uo La force d'apesanteur que tu ressens quand t'es debout ou assis dans ton fauteuil correspond a 1G (accélération de l'apesanteur) la le pilote quand il prend un virage il se fais "tasser" par l'énergie cinétique et il ressent 8 fois l'accélération de l'apesanteur (voir 9G parfois) En gros il se sent 8 fois plus lourd que d'habitude et en plus, tous le sang qu'il y a dans son corps descend dans les jambe donc il souffre et fini par tomber dans les pomme si ca dure trop longtemps
@@pilotedavion6716 Bjr, je sais.... ton msg date de deux ans mais "la force d'apesanteur" n'existe pas, du moins, c'est une absurdité puisque tout objet en apesanteur n'est soumis à aucune force. Désolé, je ne le dis pas méchamment mais 1g est correspond à l’accélération gravitationnelle terrestre et fluctue en fonction de la la latitude et de l'altitude et tourne autour de 9.8 m.s-2 (environ 36 km/h chaque seconde à notre latitude) . On la nomme : pesanteur et non pas "apesanteur" qui est justement l'inverse de la pesanteur. Cordialement
Yeah that's how it sounds when you take 9 G bro'. But still, our Rafale killed 3 times you F22. Easy pizzi. I don't know if your pilots are not trained or if your aircrafts are overrated.
Il faudrait arrêter avec les commentaires de gens qui n'y connaissent rien. It would be better to stop the comments from people almost completly ignorant.
French and americans have tested the F-18 in the Charles de Gaulle carrier (approach, touch and go and landing) and viceversa with the Rafale in USS Enterprise. FACT: you don't expect your best air to air fighter to be shot down by a REAL omnirole aircraft, the Rafale A F3 and it happened. Excuses like the fuel tanks are ashaming, and I have not any doubt is that the USAF pilot did and gave its best (this is in the DNA of any fighter pilot).
The F-22 is air superiority, the Rafale is multi-role. There's no need to invent buzzwords to try and make it seem like the french invented something they didn't. The reason the F-22 was taken down is because during Red Flag, they test various engagements at short range because it's utterly pointless to have the F-22 just destroy anything in BVR engagements. Everyone knowing anything about aircraft and these training exercises would expect such a thing to happen, because it happens in US-only training too.
Thanks for the heads up. As a side note there was an expensive joke that happened with the superbug and Rafale though... Once during BFM training, and while a Rafale was on the 6 of a F-18, the Raffy sniffed up the superbug butt from a little too close, jammed its pitot tube, which provoked a fatal spin the Rafale wasn't able to get out of. And the plane being too low when this happened, it led to an ejection. So you can technically say a SH DID got a kill on a Rafale. Even if, if this had been for real, there would have been 2 parachutes and two downed planes. Since then french navy pilots have been briefed extensively on procedures to avoid these sort of very expensive pleasantries.
What? Fear today? France booted NATO and the US troops as soon as they got the "Great Equalizer" aka NUKES! and the means to deliver them ANYWHERE! That's exactly what the French minister told Eishenhower at the time, "we can deliver them anywhere' So, get out! And the scrambling to get out was out into place immediately. Docs released from the US government archives. Who fears anyone, after they own nukes? De Gaulle, used French nuclear knowledge which was very advanced, more so than most. See "Operation Alsos" and managed to arm France. As for those who invaded France, now they are at the mercy of the previous enemies. Wake up.
@@wolfheimer1242 man I respect your knowledge, helped me learn new chapters today.. But I gotta say.. Arm yourself with sm sense of humour first, you got melted the moment you read the comment with fear.. Huh.. Aight man I'd rather prefer going to sleep
Rafale is very good at dogfight because it has very good turn angles comparing to the speed (i dont think im very clear there) and for the raptor i dont know much, but its a very cool aircraft. I love both of them
You really think that the f22 is the best plane?! Let me laught! All i want (as a french) is the world and particularly USA to see that the Rafale is a beautiful plane made by a beautiful country! The f22 is very good but the rafale is one of the best. De can't say wich one is better
The Rafale has been tested by several countries including Canada and has been found wanting. As much as I dislike the Americans any number of their old planes from the F15 which is over 40 years old would beat the Rafale on odds, meaning that the score would read like a 20 to 1 odds. It is also the mind set of the person behind the plane and the French have failed in this regard since the first world war. At the beginning of the second world war the French had the best tanks and were soundly defeated by the Germans on the first day of invasion. In Indo-China stick wielding Vietnamese beat the crap out of the French units in the 1950's. In the Falklands war the Mirage III was beaten by the lowly Harrier jet hands down. Again they send their best units to Algeria and the French are hard pressed to keep their colonial holdings in line? Why do you suppose the French can only sell their planes to third world countries. In the long run, its about performance and what the aircraft can do in variety of situations. It s for this reason that the French are willing to try to convince Canada on the Rafale as a bargaining chip by offering to transfer technology, create jobs and share billions of dollars in business if Canada buys its Rafale fighter. Dassault Aviation said the "intellectual property" associated with the Rafale would be part of any sale, including the source codes for the fighter's computer system as well as the know-how to adapt and update the aircraft - both hardware and software - throughout its lifespan. Almost a similar offer was made to India who are considering 126 planes of which 108 would be made in India. If for any reason that Canada considers the Rafale would be simply to create jobs and not the performance of the plane. It is cheap by comparison to the oft overrated and overblown F35. Dassault's competitors include the F-35, the Boeing Super Hornet and the Eurofighter Typhoon. They all offer a certain amount of technology transfer, but Dassault hopes its broad offer will catch the government's attention. I would rather that Canada go with the Super Hornet by Boeing as it has done remarkably well in all the conflicts it has been used. Given the vast expanse of Canada, I doubt that the Rafale would stand the rigors of a Canadian arctic.
Ray McCallum un f-15 qui bat un rafale ! ha ha ha toi comique toi très drôle toi faire humour toi te renseigner américain jamais battu contre vraie armée occidentale (pilote russe france allemagne etc...) moi curieux du score réel (pas hollywood(ha ha)) même pas besoin d'argumenter
Well Mickael Prevost why would I need to see a specialist? I was merely stating a response to "a beautiful plane, a beautiful country" and the obvious is that the Rafale is one borne out of nationalist pride and not necessarily one that is better than any other plane. I stated a few facts about French history to suggest that it was not perfect and history will prove that any country who deems itself beautiful has blemishes that are not easily hidden. As for the Rafale, I suggested that it would likely fail the rigors of a Canadian north where if I might add the F18 has already proven itself as did the F15 in temperatures of -50 with wind chills even colder then that. My preference was the Super Hornet. Besides the Rafale is a very expensive plane and it would not likely see any major conflicts so why spend all that money. It remains to be seen whether or not the Canadian government will buy the Rafale. I also stated that the Rafale would only get the contract on the notion that it would create jobs of which Dassault's has promised and its willingness to hand over the technology. This had nothing to do with whether or not the plane was better and be a part of the Canadian air force as other planes had proven that were imminently qualified. By qualified, I mean the Super Hornet is already proven in the bone chilling cold of the Canadian Arctic and is less expensive. When I referred to 3rd world countries, I was referring to Dassault Aviation's attempt to sell to India, Brazil and the Gulf Arab countries and even those countries are hesitant at the moment. France's defence minister played down another sales failure for Dassault's Rafale fighter jet. Instead, Brazil had opted for Sweden's Saab Shares in Dassault Aviation's stock has fallen lately and French defense minister Jean-Yves le Drian has been trying desperately to sell the Rafale. The Euro fighter program that France broke away from is having better luck and is one of the ones Dassault competing against for large sales to Canada. In so saying, why should Canada buy and expensive plane from a company that is struggling at the moment. There are no guarantees that Dassault Aviation can be competitive and still maintain its holdings. Unless they sell to a major western country Dassault Aviation may go the way of a dodo bird and in France's eyes, Ce ne serait pas très agréable.
Let's put this in perspective. 1. The F22 is wearing a Luneberg lens so the radar aided gun sight on the Rafale can actually track it and get a firing solution. Without that Luneberg Lens, hitting the F22 becomes almost impossible. 2. It's a staged dog fight. Both planes start at the merge where they can see each other. In a real combat scenario that is not going to happen. The F22 has stealth. That means he knows at what altitude, speed, and direction the Rafale is going. The F22 will either sneak up from behind or come out of the sun and club the Rafale before they knew what was going on. And that's IF they choose to actually engage in a dog fight. And that's if any of the Rafales survive the BVR missile volley, which the AIM 120 currently stands at a ~80% kill rate. So if any Rafales do survive, it is most likely they will be outnumbered in the dogfight since, unlike this video, planes go around in groups and not solo. 3. The F22 still has not received the HMCS. When it does, it will be even harder to kill WVR. 4. That being said, it was a good kill by the Rafale pilot and he earned it. But let's not make quick judgements because you see 1 hud kill shot. In a real war you're not fighting just the F22, you're fighting the entire US battlenet that the F22 plugs into (AWACS, cruise missiles, AEGIS, drones, decoys, etc).
Enkhane French Navy: 80+ combat ships US Navy: 280+ combat ships French Navy: 1 Aircraft carrier US Navy: 10 Aircraft carrierS French Navy: 4 ballistic missile submarines US Navy: 18 ballistic missile submarines Not really feeling you bro.
Everyone seems to forget that RWR exists when they start going glassy eyed about the F-22's stealth capability. As soon as the F-22's radar beams start to hit the Rafale (or any other aircraft equipped with RWR) the Rafale is going to know that there's an F-22 potentially spotting him on radar, and what direction he is in. This means he is going to know roughly where to point his radar, and even a jamming F-22 isn't invisible to the Rafale's radar at effective AIM-120 Range, the Rafale would still probably be able to hard lock the F-22 and launch an MICA before going defensive. Love it or hate it (ground crew will know what I mean,) the F-22 in a combat situation is a great aircraft, but it's not the semi-magical machine of death that everyone seems to think it is.
Monkey The F22 uses an AESA radar with LPI (low probability of intercept). AESA (and LPI) is different from normal PESA radars in that it frequency hops to prevent being detected by RWR. Since the AESA does not output concentrated emissions, they are mixed in with background noise, thus undetected by the RWR. The assumption that any plane will be able to fire back is a seriously lack of understanding of how radar and air combat work. The Rafale's pilot, in this case assuming he even detected the F22, would still need to switch his radar from search to track, obtain a lock, and maintain his course to guide his missile until it can switch to own guidance. During this whole time the AIM 120 (most likely 2 fired) has a head start on the Rafale and is within 3-7 seconds of impacting the Rafale by the time the Rafale fires. I don't think any pilot in the right mind will suicide headlong into a known missile barrage instead of instantly going defensive. You are also relying on the F22 to make poor tactical decisions and assuming they will do a head on shot. With super cruise and stealth, F22 pilots have the option of sneaking around and doing a side or rear shot on the Rafale, thus never exposing themselves to being detected. Finally, I'm going to go back to what I originally said that you're not fighting the F22 one on one. You need to defeat the entire US battlenet. The most realistic thing that will happen is that an AWACS will detect the non sgtealth Rafale (from the safety of being hundreds of miles away), will data link to the AIM 120 fired by the F22, and provide mid course updates until it goes active. The F22 will just be used as a firing platform and never expose itself.
You forgot that Rafale was recently equiped with advanced AESA radar, so F22 stealthy or not is visible from a long range, and that Rafale will soon receive Meteor missile. Make little search before posting because it seems that you dont know anything about Rafale's electronics and equipments.
American pilot: Lol French surrender plane French Pilot: Hold my baguette! just a joke guys ;) respect all pilots in the world more than a job, its a passion
У французских послевоенных истребителей от Миража 3 и далее всегда была хорошая маневренность. Это не один раз доказывали израильтяне. У наших пилотов даже поговорка сложилась: "увидел Мираж, не иди на вираж". Держут марку и ныне, конечно если не учитывать квалификацию пилотов. Хотя мне мнится, что на Ф22 всякий сброд сажать не будут.
I admit, the F-15's kill record has been heavily inflated, so instead look at actual capability. The F-15C has a 1.12 loaded TWR, SU-27SM2 1.03, SU-35 1.13. The F-15C and SU-35S are practically equal, while the SU-27 lags a bit. Wing loading (good proxie for maneuverability, lower number better) F-15C 358, SU-27SM2 371, SU-35S 408. The F-15 out turns both, especially the heavier 35. Both Sokhoi's have a better rate of clime, but a lower service ceiling. Speed, 27 M2.35, 35 2.25, F-15 M2.63.
Stazzo82 LOL, so you're an expert at reading the HUD? Not even. Don't give me that crap. You'll notice prolonged periods where the F-22 is nowhere in sight, which is not a good thing for the Rafale. Plus the F-22 has shown even in WVR to be difficult to lock onto. Nor do we have the opportunity to see the F-22's HUD. This vid doesn't carry any weight w/o a fighter pilot's perspective that actually attended the exercise. You also fail to recognize the Rafale is flying clean. That wouldn't happen in a real battle. Once you add ordinance its performance is hindered. I'll trust the pilots and journal's commentary over your expert opinion any day.
Thetequilashooter1 You say that during the time F-22 isn't in Rafale's HUD it is on his 6 ? Nonsense. This video shows F-22 can't shake of Rafale from his tail, that's it. In a low speed dogfight smaller planes appear to be more explosive and more maneuverable to the larger ones. So we have Rafale, Typhoon, Grippen, even F-16, that can be a real pain in the ass for F-15, F-22, Su-27, Mig-29 in close range low speed dogfights. The question is, would F-22 ever enter that kind of a fight. Apparently not, all would be over in a BVR fight, with long range a-a missiles. I talked to Danish F-16 pilots who had trainings vs German MiGs-29. They say F-16 is better at altitudes under 3000m. Above that MiG keeps energy better cause of his 2 engines. But he said they also had training vs Su-27 (Ukraine I think) and Su-27 beats F-16 at all altitudes nevertheless it is MUCH larger figher. Newer fighters like Rafale, Typhoon and Grippen can handle all American fighters in a DF, that's the fact.
If you think this was an 'all skill' kill by the Rafale....I encourage you to stop smoking crack my friends. The F22 is MORE than capable of dogfighting any current 3rd, 4th, and 5th gen airframe still at this present day (9/2/23) with relative ease. The scenario was set up to be as hindering to the F22 as possible and to see if the Raptor could still somehow mange a win whilst starting the fight with the Rafale already on its six (the rear of the fighter). Credit where credit is due to the Rafale pilot for scoring the "kill" but before you try to speak on the situation and down play the F22 then inflate the Rafale as a superior airframe, make sure you understand the circumstances that the battle took place. Thank you.
Totally agree. The Rafale is a good plane overall. He has abilities in everything. But it is normal that he does not win against the F22. The F22 is made for dogfighting
Also, it shows once more that the quality of the pilot is more important than the quality of the machine he's flying. I'll admit the F-22 is more advanced than the Rafale, it's undeniable. However, that French driver had most excellent skills.
Imagine if french AF had the same budget as USAF
Dassault with 300B+ budget could make a spaceship to mars
Andromediens i get your point but even if we invested all the money combined we still couldnt travel to mars
@@89turbomk3 u don't get the point ! Dassault with the USAF budget during 40 years and i'm quite sure that french could already travel to mars ! USAF spends this huge budget since decades! the so called unbeatable F22 has never ever defeat the Rafale, but the Rafale did! aviation is a french word
Honesty International actually i do get the point, because humans and there Technological Advancement still is nowhere capable of traveling to Mars even if Combine all of the money in the world. Hopefully you’ll get my point
@@89turbomk3 relevant answer! in 1939, it was unthinkable to send rockets into space and with huge budget Nazis were sending V2 in 1944! so with huge budget from 1960 to 2019 as USAF, Dassault would be capable of travelling to Mars. Hopefully you’ll get my point :)
@@89turbomk3 We haven't sent a machine to Mars?
Haha c'est tellement bon de voir ce genre d'image ou on entend le pilote Français se prendre plein de G dans la tronche pour ne pas perdre le dogfight. Bien joué aux pilotes vous n'avez plus rien à prouver avant un bon moment, vous êtes les meilleurs tout simplement ! Surtout quand on sait que le Rafale est censé être un avion d'une génération en dessous du raptor...
Icare FR C'est effectivement vraiment impressionnant la souffrance physique du pilote se prenant pleins de G !!!
+Icare FR C'est un peu plus compliqué que ça.
en vérité c'est plus compliquer 4 ou 5 c'est simplement un concept inventer par les américains pour garder un semblant d'avance technologique,c'est basé sur la date de mise en oeuvre du projetX,ensuite évidement ils sont en avance puisqu'ils ont commencés via les dollars du lobby militaro industriel qui règne en Dieu au Usa!et se définir comme inventeur et fabricant d'une arme de nouvelle génération!!c'est aussi bête que ça,et les autre pays peuvent ou pas suivre dans l'investissement de tel ou tel projet,sachant que pour la France elle n'est pas manipulée ou dirigée par ce genre de lobby!nous faisons juste ce qu'il faut quand il faut!!mercià oui le Rafale est de ce fait un avion de 5eme génération à cette date comme le Raptor car en constante évolution,merci.
Ca me fais penser a gta ou tu win un dogfight de la même maniere mais en slip avec un casque de moto
En fait les américains ont inventé une génération d'avion et ils ont mis que les leurs dedans. Du coup ils pouvaient dire "nos avions sont les meilleurs de leur génération " 😂😂
Since this event the US have found a way to fix the problem.
The Rafale is not invited anymore to the Red Flag.
+arno222444 The French are not being invited back because they behave like assholes. Everyone knows Red Flag is a no holds barred bring your best environment. That means, you use your very best kit, your radar in war reserve mode, same for missiles, etc. Everyone does this, the Americans, the Brits, the Israelis, the Aussies, the Indians, everyone. But not the French. They sit there operating in very limited modes soaking up everyone else's emissions and using that to improve their own kit to gain more sales (the French procurement model being designed around foreign sales for funding). They'd been warned twice to knock it off. They did it again in '13, so no more invites. It pisses every other participant off.
As for this video, MiG-17s shot down F-4s and no one would claim the MiG was more advanced or a better aircraft. Every dog has its day. Many of these exercises are scripted. It could have been a defensive BFM exercise for the -22 which requires the pilot to execute to perfection to not get shot down. It's a testament to the reputation of the F-22 that everyone that can get one on gun camera (not very often) literally busts a nut with excitement.
As a substitute they now get a very limited tripartite exercise with the Brits at Langley. Sort of like probation.
+hckyplyr9285 This is an interesting story. Can you tell more? or give some link so i can have a nice read ^
ì
+hckyplyr9285 lol one wonders who is the asshole in history? ^^ France is just militarily independent, she strives to have an army and a material just by her and built by her even despite the world who speaks ill of it
Mohamed Zennou
Frankly don't even talk to him, he's just a bitter loser trying to build a justification from nowhere.
arno222444 It does not matter, the French have the habit of English and American haters
a another thing : France have some of best fighter pilots in the world with one of the highest flying time ratio per pilots in the world (more than RAF pilots)
TheBasstemperature THIS! And add to that CRAZY + Balls of steel. French pilots scare me...
Tha goes for Greeks and 5 years ago the Turks before the coup attempt (the got half of Turkish pilots to jail )Only the iconic dogfights they do every day is more than enough
And yet, France is already on its knees to Communist China.
This was a emirati pilot not french
Le Rafale a clairement eu son kill, il a eu le temps de tirer un Fox 2 une 1ère fois, qui aurait sûrement touché, et à la fin de la vidéo il l'a gardé dans sa visée un long moment, avant de décrocher et finir l'exercice. Je comprends rien à ce que le gars dit à la fin par contre, dommage.
On voit bien que le F22 n'a aucun réservoir sous les ailes également pendant le dogfight.
Après, il y a sûrement dû avoir plusieurs engagements, peut-être certains avec des réservoirs, qui sait. Assez dur de savoir qui dit vrai, sachant que chaque parti annonce des résultats complètement différents.
En tout cas merci pour le partage, c'est assez rare d'avoir des vidéos de dogfight moderne, c'est vraiment impressionnant.
Il n'a pas "clairement" eut son kill. La réussite du FOX2 est hautement discutable, et son gun kill est également "capillotracté". Cela ne prouve rien mis à part que le Rafale peut rivaliser en close... certainement pas qu'il est meilleur.
Le seul prob ... c'est que de nos jours, ce n'est pas en close que sa se joue. Et là, le 22 a un avantage indéniable.
Dee-Jay Oui merci, je n'ai jamais dit que ça prouvait quoi que ce soit sur qui est meilleur en quoi.
En revanche je pense qu'il a clairement eu son kill à la fin, il n'aurait pas mis fin à l'exercice comme ça autrement.
Ce n'est pas tout a fait l'avis de mes amis qui sont également sur Rafale et -5.
A la fin je ne suis pas sûr que ce sois lui qui réclame le terminate. (?) Je ne connais pas les indicatifs, mais d’abord c'est "confirme terminate" ... ensuite j'ai l'impression qu'il s'adresse au gestionnaire de zone ou au contrôle pour annoncer le fin de celui ci pour les deux avions et "request to perfom a n ..." ? là on sais pas ... perform quoi? an RTB ... another set up ? a new set up ... ?
Dee-Jay
Si ça peut t'aider, de ce que j'arrive à décrypter a la fin, il répond à l'AWACS on dirait et lui demande de répéter une info ("say again your last"... quelque chose), et termine par "confirm [...] from target, back to AirMax (le nom d'un checkpoint ou de l'AWACS peut-être justement), P1 terminate, request terminate.
4:34
- Airmax copy … confirm your (last? xxxx? )
- Copy.
- Say again your last for Airmax.
- Say again your last for Airmax, unreadable (?), Black2
- Last fight copy!
- Confirm we perform terminate?
- Black2, Airmax, 3-1 terminate.
Là il change peut etre de poste avec le contolre ou le gestionaire de zone (?) ... ou pas ... je ne sais pas.
… Request terminate.
- I request to terminate and perform a n ...
Pour moi c’est le 22 qui demande la fin de l'engagement et le Rafale qui le relai. (pas sûr à 100%, il nous manque l’écoute.)
congrants to the French pilot.Very good job.Moυ θυμησε εναν δικο μας πιλοτο που ειχε στο φοξ3 τον τουρκο και ειπε θα τον ξεσκισω τον μπινε.Παντα τετοια....
I'm afraid, Turkish pilot take Rafale aircraft fighter seriously and ask Qatar to train with them against this aircraft
Depuis le rafale n'est plus invité au red flag, étrange... xD
Nan c'est vrai? XD
Tetemovies4 oui ^^
+Louis GERNEZ
J'adore les français et leur paranoïa narcissique! Au lieu de rêver vous devriez lire les rapports de missions de l'Armée de l'air!
Virgile Dobrowolski Personne à part les militaires n'ont accès aux rapports de mission, donc si vous pensez lire de vrais rapports sur Internet vous êtes totalement naïf. En revanche le fait que le rafale ne soit plus invité au red flag soit disant, celon les américains, à cause du système SPECTRA qui aurait été utilisé pour récupérer des informations sur les autres chasseurs de l'OTAN est un fait, donc avant de faire le "monsieur je connais tout et moi je suis informé", merci de réfléchir 2 minutes
WILDWEST CHILD Sur l'électrique et l'avionique des avions américains, mais c'est totalement faux
L'article associé est très bien fait. Il ne dit pas que le Rafale est le meilleur mais qu'en combat rapproché il se défend plus que bien, même face au F-22 dont le premier atout semble être la furtivité.
now with meteor missile and spectra ; raptor is good for waste ! usa decide to stop production of f22 !!
f22 only good for hollywood productions !
Fantastic. That f22 got taken out multiple times. Also in my humble opinion I find the Rafale to be the most beautiful plane in the world.
+mb Yeah, I'm anything but patriotic, but having seen it flew twice over the Bourget & at Pornic, it's a hell of a sight when it merge.
You forget the impressive SU27/35, F16, Gripen and Eurofighter which to me just looks a little more dynamic in the air than Rafale. Is the Rafale wing restricting the dynamics?
@@mjames2117 No the delta wing (Rafale, Mirage 2000) gives much more agility to airplanes than the arrow wings like F-16's or F-18's for instance (only drawback is that deltawings are pretty unstable at low speed, explaining why Rafale has small front wings which correct the phenomenon). So if you have a double engine, together with front wings with a pretty small size, Rafale is clearly more agile than F16, Gripen and even Eurofighter (Rafale won easily dog fights over Eurofighter). Since SU27/35 do not have vectoriel thrusts, I doubt they would be much more agile than Rafale (which managed to get almost even with the F22 Raptor), although there is no track record of Rafale/Sukhoi dogfight as far as I know...
Sukhoi 35 and Rafale are by far the most beautiful aircraft in the world...
f14 and viggen are the best jets
This is the coolest footage I've ever seen. Both amazing aircraft.
Well done France!!!!! Greetings from Peru
Rafael shot down f22
Americans: can we just pretend that it never happened?
Donald : YES WE CAN
@@Agesilas2 Those are FAKE NEWS never happened, never will. We have a great plane, truly the best, tremendous pilots, great great peoples. That I can tell you.
@@arnaudsurribas2963 Ι just wondering...American pilots you say are the best...how do you know?? You never fight with someone your own size your pilots only bombing iraq, Syria,Libya and Serbia. How do you know that you are the best? indian pilots fight every day with pakistani pilots, chinese pilots fights every day with japanese and Greek pilots fight every day with turkish pilots how do you know you are the best without you compiting with anything in you size?
Greek pilots were voted as the best in the world at the NATO Tactical Leadership Programme meeting (TLP 2019-1). They were recognised for their interceptions, long-range bombardment and strikes against war ships under extreme weather conditions.
@@blackwhite3786 I was just trolling by speaking the way Trump do. I'm French by the way.
@@arnaudsurribas2963 ol sorry i did not catch the sarcasm my english is not very good
this is why greece ordered them, a great present for our turkish friends!
Turkey will never attack you, their army is old and their innovation is suspended because of lack of knowledge.
And Croatia also 💪
Say hello to tfx 😂😂
@@Klliansimabras Les actifs + réservistes de l'armée turque = la population totale de la Grèce, tu ajoutes le gap technologique sur les drones etc je vois mal les grecques s'en sortir
Ρε φίλε Πετροχώρι ήσουν...και εγώ
Tout comme Bugatti refusera toujours de reconnaître publiquement qu'il existe mieux et moins cher que leur Veyron, les US ne reconnaîtront jamais officiellement que leur invincible F-22 puisse perdre face a un Rafale bien moins cher.
Fierté Nationale, quand tu nous tient...
Surtout pour un avion qui coûte les yeux de la tête et qui sert à rien .
Le F35 est encore pire .
Sur quels critères existe t'il mieux que Bugatti?
Le confort d'une Bugatti face à une Koenigsegg est incomparable par exemple. Et puis il y a aussi l'image de marque/luxe qui entre en jeu.
@@Quatuux oh ta gueule ici on parle d'avion de chasse pas de voiture de luxe et on appel sa une métaphore re vois tes programme de 4ieme avant de marquer un commentaire qui na rien a voir avec celui d'au dessu
oui ils ont la Chiron...
Je pense que en supériorité aérienne le F22 est meilleur, en polyvalence le rafale est meilleur. Un F22 c'est fait pour détruire avant même d'être vu, les dogfight existent plus de nos jours
Oh yeah, he got him good! Well done to the Rafael pilot. That is not an easy feat. All credit is due.
Rafael what is this?
RafaLE* 😉
rafale.
@@silverpleb2128 oops
ALright everybody pay attention. This is how you pronounce 'RAFALE':
RA-FALE --> 2 syllable word --> 'A' is prounnouced 'AH' as in 'ARM'. The 'E' at the end is silent. RAFALE means 'Burst of fire' in the military shooting sense and 'Gust' of wind in the meteorological sense.
C'est cool d'avoir de bon avion mais après on doit voir les pilotes... Et la pas photo le pilote français a humilier le pilote américain.
Mec la vie est fake lol 🤣😂
*video
@@LeGRRRRRRnan frère c’était dans la cadre d’un exercice en Asie
The French did win that one. The stealth is meant for BVR l, not dog fighting. Dog fighting is not what the F-35 or F-22 were meant to do.
ça me rappelle un vieux docu sur "les avions du futur" où on voyais une toute petite escadrille de 8 f-22 poutrer à elle seule une flotte de 30 rafales et su-35 flanker avec une seule perte à la fin x)
je sais bien ! mais ça me faisais marrer de voir un contre-argument à leur petit film de pub/propagande en animation
Un bon dessin animé américain très marrant. Quand je l'ai vu, je me suis demandé quel machine ils avaient inventé, puis plus ça allait, plus je rigolais. Je ne suis pas un spécialiste de l'aviation mais cette bonne propagande américaine est tout à fait détectable, on se serait cru dans indepandance day. Remarquable reportage-animé!!!
*****
t'es complètement con ou tu fais exprès? Je te parle d'un ancien documentaire animé "les avions du futur"... suis la conversation avant de me parler bisounours, facile d'agresser les gens derrière un écran, je ne suis pas un spécialiste de l'aviation comme je te l'ai dis, mais la propagande américaine ça je connais un peu... Je connais aussi le crochet du droit et le direct du gauche si tu veux des précisions sur mes compétences... Je te conseil donc de regarder le documentaire susnommé avant d'ouvrir ta putain de grande gueule et peut-être connard, que tu pourra venir t'exprimer.
*****
très bien si tu t'en fou de la discussion du haut, ferme bien ta gueule et fais pas chier le monde. Apprends à tirer au 12 et pas sur une pauvre cible. t'as quel âge tas de merde... minable...t'es le 1er à répondre à cette discussion, t'es vraiment un vrai minable, t'as que ça à foutre... t'as pas vu que tu répondais à adam fett... va dormir.
c'est quoi ton problème ? on peut pas juste échanger un avis sans se chier dessus ? >
Le Rafale = omnirôle
Le F-22 spécialisé en dogfight a eu tres chaud face au Rafale.
Au niveau global le Rafale est un des meilleurs avions au monde.
Un des meilleurs avion au monde OUI !
Mais BEaucoup trop cher pour etre vendu au monde... Domage
juckclie Pour ce qu'il est capable de faire il vaut son prix, il n'y a aucun aucun avion qui n'est capable de faire la même chose que lui. Et quand on voit l'Eurofighter qui est moins capable et plus cher, le Rafale a plutôt un bon prix.
Mais oui peu de pays peuvent se le permettre, et l'influence américaine n'aide pas.
Ah bah presque plus !! Le F-22 ?
Opération Aéronaval : NEIN !
Attaque nucléaire : NEIN !
Reconnaissance : NEIN !
Appui Air-Sol : NEIN !
Dogfight : Presque NEIN !
NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN !!
au final les américina sboycotte le rafale et le mirage 2000 car ils se sentent menacés, genre le Gripen acheté par le l'Inde et la Suisse alors que ces avions sont aussi efficace qu'une brique lancé dans une vitre blindée
merci pour le clone (raté) du F16 co produit avec les ricains
C'est le Brésil qui a choisi le Gripen, pas l'Inde. L'Inde a choisi le Rafale.
I'm not a combat pilot, but I saw 3 opportunities to take down that Raptor
You just saw the raptor 3 times on the HUD but these were obviously not ''opportunities''.
@@bastitoutouvolaille9228 i'm pretty sure there is an IR lock at some point, then a radar lock a bit later, and at 4:50 there is a cannon "kill"
@Bastitoutou volaille Tell me you know nothing about air combat without telling me you know nothing about air combat.
@@bastitoutouvolaille9228 He has full lock on for a FOX-2 k!ll at 2:52 but is still in FOX-3 mode _(Can be seen left of the weapon list in the inferior part of the screen)_
He also has a full lock on for a GUN k!ll at 4:50 and is in GUN mode, but chose to deviate to avoid any risk of collision rather than firing _(he could've fired, their weapon systems were infrared, not real ones)_
There are other opportunities that are up for debate, namely a FOX-3 early on, but these two leave absolutely no doubt
Also keep in mind that this was a joint exercice, not a competition _(although regarded as such by many later on because of the Rafale win that sparked a controvery in the US)_ Hence both air force sent pilotes in need of training that made mistakes, not their best elements _(the french pilot for instance wouldve missed the k!ll at __2:52__ because not in the apropriate weapon mode)_
My two most favorite aircraft. Wow it hurts me to see how that raptor got smashed by the rafale. Great pilot.
Take this as a grain of salt my friends.
Nothing against the rafale, it’s a great fighter. But of course a dose of reality; the f22 in this exercise shot down 6 rafale’s before this incident. And then of course this French pilot was able to achieve this victory through subjecting himself to incredible G’s of force, you can hear him struggling not to pass out in the video. This was something the American pilot wasn’t willing to do in a training exercise. Of course there is little to dispute the notion that the f22 is more manoeuvrablethan the rafale and superior in just about every other aspect for that matter
@UCdCnMk-wLMpnG6I0UaPnlAg that's true
@jcwalker If you think that f22 wasn't pulling some serious Gs as well, you're deluding yourself. Fact is the f22's true advantage is BVR. In CQ the better pilot will win this fight 9 times outta 10.
@@King-mj2bn true that perhaps the biggest factor in a dogfight is pilot skill, but of course being in a faster and more manoeuvrable jet may be just as important. You can see from the video that the f22 has started out in a handicapped position relative to the Rafale. It’s unlikely in a real world scenario that an f22 would find itself in a disadvantageous position considering it’s all-aspect stealth. It’s hard to imagine any amount of pilot skill would save a rafale in a disadvantaged position relative to an f22.
@@King-mj2bn the raptor has a higher G onset rate that just about any other US fighter including the F-16 so you may be right
C'est explicite.
la symbologie du tir canon croise celle du Raptor. En condition réelle, il se serait mangé plusieurs obus de 30mm
Ni les ricains , ni les anglais ne sont venus chercher une revanche depuis.
Les ricains etaient un peu sur d'eux, ca arrive.
L'enjeu etait d'abaisser le rafale face aux EAU. Ils ont donc envoyé ce qu'il avaient de mieux. C'etait un peu optimiste.
Les anglais ont interdiction de croiser le fer avec le rafale depuis.
Je crois pas que sur la planete y'ait de pilote serieux qui se dit que les avions de Dassault sont des gadgets.
***** idem , même les ricains ne veulent plus rencontrer les avions Français , à chaque fois ça se passe mal pour eux , même aux émirats , un F22 a croisé le fer avec un Mirage 2000-9 , mal lui en à pris , le F22 s'est pris une raclée !! lol
***** j'ai corrigé , mirage 2000-9 des émirats au lieu d'un -5 , piloté par un pilote français a battu un 22 aux émirats à l'ATLC 2009 ! pas pub bien sur ! pour la rencontre F22 vs Rafale , la rencontre s'est terminée en " neutralisation mutuelle " !! mais il n'a jamais été dit qu'un Rafale fut battu , mais dans le rapport il est dit qu'un F22 a été une fois en position de faire un tir canon mais il n'a jamais était dit qu'un Rafale fut battu ! par contre , bizarrement , la victoire du Rafale contre le F22 de cette vidéo n'a jamais été mis au compteur du Rafale ! drôle , non ?
***** tu crois pas qu'en France ou dans le monde s'est pas la même chose ? toujours dur de reconnaitre nos erreurs ou nos faiblesses ! chez les allemands et leur ICE qui a déraillé , il roule toujours , notre tgv a déraillé plusieurs fois , quelques bosses sans plus , chez les allemands , des dizaines de morts et plus de 100 blessés ! l'ICE s'est replié en accordéon , le TGV non , il peut pas !
*****
Arrete !
Les francais ne sont pas des extra terrestes.
Ce truc est une vidéo.
Je n'ai jamais dit que le rafale explosait un F22 dans toutes les circonstances.
Juste que les ricains ont envoyé cet avion pour nous faire chier et qu'en combat rappoché, ca marchait pas.
Aucun pays ne donne toutes les billes.Le Rafale n'est pas l'avion fabriqué pour bousiller le F22.
En combat rapproché , il peut bousiller un F22 c'est tout, mais il ne va pas sur Mars
Jamais tu ne verras de tests a longue distance car c'est confidentiel defense pour chaque pays. Aucun pays ne va donner a l'autre les capacités reelles de son avion.
Aucun pays n'a non plus les vraies capacités a distance de l'avion d'en face.
Il les soupsonnes c tout.
abinadvd la rencontre entre ces deux avions s'est faites sans spectra et sans le radar , les américains ont même dit que les Français étaient venus faire de l'espionnage afin de connaitre toutes les fréquences utiliser dans le F22 ( en brouillage ou en émission ) c'est toujours plus facile de brouiller des fréquences quand on les connait d'avance ! lol ! non , le Rafale est là pour vaincre ces ennemis ( disons les ennemis de la France ) ! de toutes façons , il est impossible pour un réacteur de Rafale d'aller dans l'espace , pour bruler du kérosène , il faut de l'oxygène ( l'air ) , dans l'espace , il y a le vide , donc dur dur d'aller sur mars !! mais les ingénieurs Français sont les meilleurs du monde , à tel point que les américains viennent en France les débaucher !!
At this distance stealth means nothing, of course Rafale could lock Raptor; Rafale is also incredibly agile fighter. Raptor has the edge thanks to TVC but as can be seen in this video where it cannot shake Rafale off his tail, it's not that big difference when enemy pilot is really good (like this Frenchie was)
Mandrak789 the f22 also allowed it to get close behind it for test combat situations
@@89turbomk3 False, you have no proof.
The test says it was a fair and regular dogfight, then the US army invented lies because they felt humiliated.
You do realize that in this competition it was agreed upon that the fight doesn’t start until both aircraft are within visual range correct?
@@89turbomk3 That's the purpose of a dogfight...
The F22 never allowed the Rafale to get close BEHIND HIM. That's a lie.
The F22 is just less manoeuvrable, yet it was made for dogfight, while the Rafale wasn't made for this purpose, what a failure for the F22.
Guess why they went so close to each other? Looks like the F22 wasn't able to stay undetected and shoot down the Rafale while it was far.
Je serai curieux d'entendre le cockpit du pilote du F-22...
"Putain j'en chie !" ^^
Phrase culte dans les chevaliers du ciel ! :P
Oui ^^
Jesfr 306th mdrrr ou "aidez-moi les gars arrêtez l'événement"
"bon. Si je fait un virage comme ceci je me retrouve derrière le rafale et je peut tirer" '10 secondes plus tard ' "merde il est où ???"
Dear Archy,
The fact that even an F-22 can be "foxed 2" by a Rafale, says something A. about the class of French fighter pilots in general and B. that the F-22 is not invulnerable, even to 10 year older technology. Should an F-22 jock think that, it would mean he becomes complacent and less alert. Lesson one from any war that has ever been fought: NEVER underestimate your opponent! How much more Vietnams and Afghanistans must the US encounter, before Americans take that lesson to heart?
americans never learn.they classified it.this was classified by usa but the french showed the actual scenario.same with A117 shot down in bosnian war. when F35 lost against all three mayor european fighters.
Rafale is 10 years old too.. is from 2004
@@hakandelabiarritz6750lmao they lost 10 F-35 imagine if they go fight with French aircraft
L'eurofighter nettement supérieur au rafale? Qu'ils peuvent être pas très futés ces anglo-saxons des fois! :p Si je me souviens bien le rafale est pas le meilleur chasseur d'Europe? Confirmé par les suisses je crois.
meilleur du monde même ... en théorie du moins
kira68200 Ce n'est même pas en théorie, c'est en pratique.
Le F35 ne peut pas sortir sans un F22 pour l'escorter (dixit l'USAF), le Rafale bat le 22 ainsi que l'Eurofighter. Sans compter les F16, mais bon là c'est normal.
En fait, jusqu'à présent et sauf erreur de ma part, tous les exercices ont donné le Rafale vainqueur.
Les échecs commerciaux de Dassault sont incompréhensibles au vu des performances réelles et des notations des état-majors lors des évaluations en vue de choisir un nouvel avion à acheter.
j'ai mis en théorie parce qu'il y'a toujours des emmerdeurs pour dire que c'est faux
ça c'est tout con, le rafale et le mirage 2000 ne se vendent pas parce que les pays intéressés subissent un monopole des américains et comme ces derniers se sentent menacés il les boycottent
voila pourquoi nos avions ne se vendent pas :)
Il y a clairement une pression US pour refourguer leur F35 virtuel, mais c'est parfois le Saab Gripen qui a été choisi... pas compris la décision suisse...
Tout ça me laisse penser qu'il faudrait une industrie européenne de l'armement comme on l'a déjà pour l'aviation civile. L'UE dépense un fric monstre pour entretenir une flotte de bonne qualité mais composée d'avions trop variés.
www.lopinion.fr/blog/secret-defense/monde-s-arme-alors-que-l-occident-desarme-11598
Si on produisait ensemble, on vendrait déjà sur notre marché intérieur (très gros: 2618 avions de combat www.flightglobal.com/airspace/media/reports_pdf/world-air-forces-2013-101015.aspx)
et l'export en serait facilité. Mais bon, vu comment les élections européennes se profilent... je doute que les projets ambitieux soient possibles...
le Gripen est à la base un clone de F16 c'est une grosse bouse mais du coup les ricains sont content parce que c'est pas des avions français
et oui mais à ce moment la faudrait faire mieux que l'Eurofighter qui est quand même pas terrible
Très Bon Pilote coté français!
C'est entre 4:50 et 4:53 qu'il y a "kill Raptor" (deux fois de suite) au canon pour le Rafale !! Par contre, vu l'angle de tir, la distance trop courte et la trajectoire latérale rapide du F22 au moment du 'Fox2' (3:07), le 'splash Raptor' était tout sauf garanti. C'est bien au canon que le F22 est abattu. Un grand moment de combat aérien, et une sacrée prouesse des ailes françaises ! Bravo !!
Good thing they are allies. Good thing the f22 was in visual range the whole time.
Wow, jet fighters are under a lot of stress and really tough. Must be in tip top physical condition.
F.R.E.N.C.H.A.I.R.F.O.R.C.E les Rafales et leur(s) pilote(s) sont vraiment très bons
Both aircraft are excellent fighters, but are worlds apart. The Rafale's delta wing shape is what allowed it to maneuver around and get behind the F-22 at very low speeds (without stalling). This however is a dogfight and the F-22 was not designed for this situation, but BVR. In a real world scenario, the F-22 would have detected the Rafale at 130 mi and fired an AMRAAM at 90 mi. The Dassault would be dead before he even knew he had an enemy.
it s not because you detect the rafale before that you can destroy it , rafale has the spectra countermeasures sytem . not so easy to destroy it by missile .
No at all because when f22 lauch the "amraam, it bécome detectable and even in "wings of war" which is full for the USA, F22 never touch a Rafale in direct missile shots. Rafale leave the fight safe. Only in dogfight they won but as you can see on this movie which show the reality, it s wrong so. I leave you to make a conclusion.
Philippe Palomba Which episode of Wings of War?
Ron Valencia
Only theory in a movie much more different in training or in real ,operations.
F-22 not designed for dogfight? This means the american taxpayer is this dumb he paid for a useless VECTOR THRUST ! ! ! You should also remember that shape and materials are not the only ways to achieve "stealth". This word, and the "5th gen fighter" too, a pure commercial propaganda. To avoid being detected by radars is a constant of warplanes design since the WWII, with bombers releasing stripes of fin metal sheets whose lenght was calculated to jam enemy radar's frequencies. Today's electronic jamming paired with low IR signature engined add to the Rafale's intrinsic relatively low-level, but way cheaper, shape and materials stealth which already ensure a division of the radar signature by a factor of at least 10 when compared with a Mirage 2000 (same class as the F-16) , this combination makes her way harder to detect than most of people may believe. The one and only reason for the Rafale-bashing is our will to stay independent from a military point of view, period. Now, remember that military planes are seldom chosen for technical reason, you basically buy an alliance. In order to choose a plane instead of an ally, you need : a real need for effective weapons because you make war on your homeland, multiple foreign providers so that you get a B-plan, and a national plane, whatever bad or retarded it is as long as it flies and can be mass-produced on-demand as a C-plan. India has both (Russian planes, the locallly made Tejas and also a 5th-gen project) and you know what they eventually bought.
Sur une video de "ATE", il précise que sur ce coup là, le F-22 s'était fait accroché FOX 2 et ensuite verrouillé au tir canon !!! Et pan, au tapis le Raptor !!!
Don.t forget , rafale is a real multirole combat aircraft, highly maneuverable, at same level or higher in close combat wvr, which is a performance, against other aircrafts specialised in air superiority. US always developped fighters able to get superiority at lon range(F14, f4., etc, ) but in current operational theaters, identification confirmation is often required, very rare to engage at 90nm...then rafale is a good choice. I know frm rafale pilots that rafale often takes advantage on heavier us fighters during dogfights, and have excelent systems to fly very low and for air to ground. Rafale is a good choice for france, and shows a great efficiencein operations
"je suis ton père , Luk...", bravo au frenchy qui fume Chuck Norris !
oloool
I never breath so heavy until I watch this video. Damn!
it seems to me that the pursuer is an excellent pilot and knows how to use the energy in that jet the rafale
One of the best
Amazing flying by the pilot. But by using external tanks, the F-22 gave up maneuverability and more importantly, it's stealth capabilities. If the F-22 went stealth mode, without the external tanks, it's unlikely the Rafale pilot would have ever seen it on radar.
en bas à droite du HUD. dés les premières secondes, un hig G turn à 500noeuds et 9.6G
This video is similar to the final scene in Gladiator, where the Emperor stabs Maximus shortly before their final duel to "level the playing field" -- the F22 was designed around BVR combat. That's not to say it isn't a capable dogfighter (The Rafale scores no victories against it) but to trash the Raptor because it doesn't mop the floor with every other aircraft in a WW2 style dogfight is just ignorant.
***** The raptor stealth is only in transit, when it turns on his radar to he will be spotted by his opponents. The F22 is probably the best fighter in air to air but he is far from untouchable, especially against aircraft like the raphale. (The raphale has also stealth technologies.)
Louis GERNEZ and no one claimed the F-22 to be untouchable.
i dont know what you say but f-22 if that was real dogfight was dead ... i dont know what you say but in this video you just see the f-22 loosing 3 times but the pilot say that was killed only at the last ... we sew that video with my brother ... he is a pilot in greek airforce ... and he say that "rafale had 2 more momments to kill f-22 but on practice when you are aggresion you need more than one time kill to take it"
If it was real combat the Rafale would already be shot down lol. Easy to win when you pick the fight to suit the aircraft but a stealthy aircraft would shoot it down before it's even spotted.
@@captaron f22 and f35 are golden pieces of shit, u guys us taxpayers are cukold
Il lui colle vraiment au cul ! impressionnant ...
Longue vie à la France! On se souvient de Normandie-Niémen en Russie!
Pour saluer la vente des 24 premiers Rafale à l'export et démontrer l'excellence française dans l'aviation de combat, une vidéo digne d'un jeu !
Philippe MASSON Ouais sauf que c'est pas un jeu faut toujours se rappeler ça à l'esprit. Quand le pilote Français se prend plein G on sait très bien qu'il suffit d'une erreur et c'est fini ;)
Philippe MASSON +36 rafales pour l'inde ^^
leo haigazian + 24 pour le Qatar !
Didier Lemoine déjà?
ça reste un flop.. 40 ans de dév pour vendre une 60 avions.. lel
Two great fighters, flexing muscles. But to me, this is irrelevant, because there is close to 0% chance that these two fighters will see each other in real combat. Other than that, great exercise.
Galactic Vixen But F22 were build to be good at this exercise...
@@turlupouet nah it's a stealth aircraft which compromises manoeuvrability, s-bend air intakes, stealthy exhausts and engine placements etc.
If an aircraft fires from a distance, this gives the target aircraft time to act to avoid the missile.
Missiles do not win every time.
In future combat, fighter planes will be accompanied by drones. In case of difficulties, and even in normal cases, there will always be a drone placed as a mask to take enemy fire. It will ALWAYS come down to close combat, except against low quality armies.
If the French build our us fighters maybe we would have some better health care with the money saved
And what about the F-35 ?
@@Klliansimabras The flying anvil?
Simplement sensationnelle!
Les images parlent! Et à ça on ne peut que constater que le Rafale est plus qu'à prendre au sérieux.
the problem it's the americans don't accept to loose , and open your eyes the RAFALE is ONE BEST of the world too , NOT only the F22 , but don't worry we re allied and the F22 with RAFALE will make the best and dream team to protect us ,it's the objective why they built TO PROTECT US .
American don't want to fight with or against Rafale anymore !
+Didier Lemoine
Yes they do.
www.ndtv.com/world-news/what-happens-when-the-most-advanced-fighter-jets-in-the-u-s-france-and-britain-prepare-for-war-1256695
+Didier Lemoine
Et ma tante est mon oncle! Tu pourrais nous évitez tes âneries nationalistes franchouillardes!
lol
Because fighting the Rafale with the f22 was to easy, the Rafale is crap useless in air to air BVR.
@@terrywainman6050 Actually, just the opposite ...
Vive la France
Ruslan Onra Vive l'omelette du fromage!
+Ruslan Onra Et la baguette au croissant.
+Georges Droguet XD
lul :D u win not one singel war :D
John Wick talking about America?
Damn right war win (0)
I love France, too. Very good ally goping way back to the very beginnings of the USA's creation. If it weren't for the French we wouldn't have been able to defeat the Brits.
The Rafale might be able to detect the F-22 with its Spectra, just like how the F-22 uses its AN/ALR passive receiver, but detecting a plane and being able to lock onto it are different matters. ;) Peace.
don't know if that was a "confirmed" kill or not but either way that rafale pilot was working hard for that kill. kudos to him.
The context: in that specific joint training mission, the f22 previously has operated at it's true intent (beyond visual range attacks) and reliably beat the brittish and french to zero. After the training proved in-effective for that reason, the training was re-designed to make the f22 engage in dog fights, which simply isnt its purpose.
And do you think seriously that trust vectoring is designed for BVR ??
The main purpose of the F22 is dogfight and BVR .
Bullshit you completely made up. No F22 ever shot a Rafale in exercises, the rest were draws. F22 was designed as air superiority and that includes dogfighting, otherwise what is the point of having thrust vectoring?
@@lordtemplar9274 Bullshit yourself.
Air Forces Monthly had an article, "The Big Fight", about the Advanced Tactical Leadership Course (ATLC) in its April 2010 issue.
The successive article (same issue), "Justifiably Proud!", was an interview with Lt. Col. Fabrice Grandclaudon, Commander of EC 1/7.
"AFM: You apparently said 'the Rafale rubbed F-22 - the most modern fighter of the USAF. During six encounters the F-22 hit its goal only once'. The 27th FS doesn't remember the engagements that way and say the F-22 scored several victories against Rafale. Did you offer DACT to the Raptors and did they decline?
*I did not say we 'rubbed them', I said that there was only one shot claimed (ie a simulated kill) for the six that were set-up. I read in a recent issue of Air et Cosmos that it was two. As far as I am concerned, one or two shots of six Basic Fighter Manoeuvres (BFM) encounters is a victory for the F-22 but not an overwhelming one. Not like the one we claimed against the Typhoons after combat in Solenzara, Corsica during September (9 set-up: 8 to 1 for the Rafale*). The other set-ups versus F-22s were terminated for combat deck, an un-decisive situation or lack of fuel. We never shot them down, but we hope to do so soon since we are quite good opposition for them, and it is in the pilot's spirit not to give up!*
Like almost every nation, we offered Beyond Visual Range DACT, of course, but the F-22 was only authorized to do BFM 1v1 Within Visual Range (WVR) versus foreign countries (except the UK, with whom they did not fight even in the BFMs). I wish we could have done so, but we didn't - which bring me back to Air et Cosmos, where its information about BVR engagement with AMRAAM in stealth mode is wrong: besides the fact that we did not even fly BVR vs F-22s! *F-22 was fitted with some specific device to increase their radar signature.* It enabled us to have contact with them during work ups for example. But that's not the point here."
increíble... felicitaciones desde Argentina. Igual estoy casi seguro que los pilotos franceses son mejores que los de la USAF
F-22 DOWN
Waaah, i feel like playing some Ace Combat now.
Fritz you are correct. --> Aerospace Engineer Checking In :) TVC helps with Roll, Pitch, and Yaw rates as well as post stall control. But maneuvers like Cobra, Flat Spin, and 30+AOA aren't going to help in BFM where maintaining a high energy state is the key to victory. High AOA bleeds energy which will get you killed every time. Large control surfaces or canards can have the same effects of TVC at low speed, but in BFM you will be matched...which is what we observe in the video. Cheers!
In BFM fight its just simple : Rafale is the most agressive aircraft in the world , but F22 is made for combat at distance
If an aircraft fires from a distance, this gives the target aircraft time to act to avoid the missile.
Missiles do not win every time.
In future combat, fighter planes will be accompanied by drones. In case of difficulties, and even in normal cases, there will always be a drone placed as a mask to take enemy fire. It will ALWAYS come down to close combat, except against low quality armies.
De toute façon des f22 y en aura que 186 et au prix et temps d'entretient pour une heure de vol, les pilotes ricains sont pas prêt de devenir des caïds sur f22... LOL
oui, enfin des Rafales... il n'y en aura guère plus...
Ouais, sauf que les USA sont 5 fois plus peuplé que la France, donc 186 c'est très peu pour un pays de 320 millions d'habitants.
@@Meemeec non il y en aura pas beaucoup plus une 30aine au mieux mais par contre grace a leurs disponibilités et faible coût d'heure de vol (pour un chasseur de ce type) ils vont cumulé bien plus d'heures de vols.
@@Fabio-om4kb actuellement la France possède 152 Rafale sur les 180 commandé, ils seront mis au standard f4 à l'horizon 2025
4:13 - See how he just spins off.
Let us ALL not forget the Raptor had a 6 to1 kill and beyond visual range and a 3to1 kill at visual range at the Red Flag operation. Hands down it was the best performing fighter there.
I don't know where you found these results but it's impossible that it's against the Rafale, the Rafale participated only once at Red Flag and the F-22 was not present.
neage59 Probably he meant against other participating aircrafts. Against Typhoons, a German pilot remarked it have excellent BVR capabilities. However, once they managed to close in, they have a 50-50 chance against the Raptor.
Insaint Bear Yes probably
Insaint Bear Those EF flew clean, which is not realistic. Add some ordinance to those wings and the EF's performance diminishes greatly.
If you talk about F-22 vs Rafale there were 6 dogfights (no radar, no missiles, only with gun).
We know that the F-22 won once, we don't know for the others, maybe the Rafale won the 5 others, maybe 5 draws.
We also know that the Americans tried to hide the truth many times.
The first time by saying the F-22 didn't participate to the dogfights.
The second time by saying the F-22 was piloted by a rookie, the problem is that the F-22 was here for an airshow, nobody sends a rookie pilot to do an airshow.
The third time they said the F-22 had external fuel tanks, Dassault published the pictures of the OSF of the Rafale to prove the contrary.
And now we have a video to prove the F-22 had difficulty against the Rafale.
Plus serieusement, on m'enlevera pas de l'idee que si les ricains ont presenté leur F22 pour faire joujou contre le Rafale aux EAU, c'est qu'ils etaient surs de gagner.
J'ai rien vu, j'y connais rien , mais je peux te dire qu'en haut de l'echelle militaire americaine on a compris qu'on avait fait une belle boulette.
Donc , ce genre de confrontation n'aura pas lieu de si tot je crois, que ce soit en dogfight ou en combat lointain.
Mais tout ca n'est pas tres serieux.
Enfin une chose est sure, c'est que les rafales sont vraiment opérationnels et remplissent tout un tas de missions, et pas en simulations eux .
Par contre les F-XX, typhoons, SU-XX, hors aishows, on les voit pas briller,donc j'aime bcp les pseudo ingénieurs qui font des pronostics sur des specs et mettent des avions sur des piédestals par rapport au rafale, forcement, c'est un avion français donc largement moins bon .
of course YES it can supercruise with full missile , i think you underestimate RAFALE, because you don't understand FRENCH ,if you listen the pilot in the end . the rafale touched 2 times the F22 if it shooted with real missiles .F22 is not invincible,RAFALE can hold the head F22, and USAF was understood very well in this training race.
Rafale-F3R: It's good that the Rafale had some wins. No-one, on either side, improves if you win every time. Losing is the greatest incentive for correcting weakness & improvement. Ask any successful entrepreneur.
These 2 planes are cool but everywhere I see that people shit on the Rafale (except french) lol, so french bashing or jealous?
couilluss The Rafale is a VERY good lightweight fighter. People shitting on it are just idiots. Also, F-22 > Rafale in real world scenario. Not hating, just convinced the '22 wins even 2vs1's vs ANY 4-4.5 gen fighter 9 out of 10 times BVR.
Only jalousy, they just don't understand why a small country have a better aircraft, coz they know nothing about french History and french technology... Airbus, arian Space, etc... How comes ??! 😂 À small country ?! 😂
I disagree with 2 to 1 but agree with the outcome. And I'm French, I'm a Rafale fanboy etc.
Rafale is omnirole, F22 a pure fighter: there is no arguments to be made.
BUT : USA overmarkets it. There is a lot of propaganda in what they say. A 2 to 1 battle can't really exist because of the prices involved : the nation using F22 would need many categories of planes to complete their air capabilities. Whereas you need Rafale, logistics planes and a couple of radar plane and voila.
No extra needs for specialised mecanics, specialised logistics etc.
This is the best advantage of the Rafale over so many modern planes, if not most.
I think the Rafale is in the top 5 planes in anything it does, whereas for exemple the F35 may be one of the best 5gen light bomber in the current world, or the F22 one of the best fighters (and all the great russian planes are superb !), but since you need other planes to accompany these birds, you need pilots, special mecanics, extra mecanical parts etc.
With Rafale you need just Rafale stuff.
Man, I love that plane. Seing it hooking a F22 is a joy, even in a high-fantasy scenario like that (the french text at the begining of the video specifies that ROE are unknown, so doesn't conclude ANYTHING).
Because that just means that with tons of lucks and such an imaginary situation, a Rafale is not useless. Just this, nothing more. And that if Rafale was a US plane with US marketting, it would be qualified as the Rafael angel best at most things.
Now, every fighters will be ugly drones in 10 years anyway, so both planes may be outdated sooner they we'd like :/
4:22 Dead Raptor....
PS 2: This is not to say that the F-22 is not a superior aircraft. It is. But there's a prize on its head and a lot of competition heading its way (T50 PAK FA, J20, J31). So stay sharp USAF. Don't throw too much money down the F-35 drain (a pure bomb truck with great sensors and SA, but with the speed and maneuvrabilty of an oil tanker) and stay ahead in the air-air domain. That's where wars are won or lost.
IMHO The raptor wasn't being flown by an expert pilot. You can see at 4:50 it simply let The rafale locked on him. Also you can see the external fuel tanks called wings tanks, those obviously don't let raptor achieve his highest performance.
idk where you're seeing external fuel tanks tho, are they stealthy like the raptor and it's why we can't see them? (lol)
Bravo France
et combien de G prend la langue française à l'écrit, dans certains commentaires?
+cheldep A commencer ses phrases par "et" c'est clair qu'elle souffre.
"et" sans majuscules en début de phrase c'est du beau !!!!
Plus que n'importe lequel dans son avion!c'est vrai,mais juger un livre à sa couverture?c'est pas le top,enfin je crois!!!
We grav :D
Certaines langues n'en ont pas pris assez on dirait ^^
Euh, il est même largement meilleur, car on voit le f22 tout du long,
PS: It's not the tools you are given, it's how you use them. I hope the USAF will use them more wisely, than it did when it entered the Vietnam war, relying on AIM-7 and AIM-9 missiles allone. These would make the gun "obsolete." As we all know now, military strategists should be careful to declare anything obsolete. The proof of the pudding is in the eating, not in computer models and presumptions. The fog of war is thicker than mud. One must have experienced that in order to appreciate it.
I have always thought that the pilots skills were more important than the machine they are flying. I still think it is the case.
C'est vraiment dommage de ne pas avoir fait la vidéo en anglais. Si c'est juste pour convaincre les français, c'est pas très utile...
Beau travail néanmoins.
secretdefense.blogs.liberation.fr/2010/02/16/rafale-contre-f22-le-bilan-du-match-/
*BADASS*
EA-18G Growler, old F-16, Mirage 2000, even A-10 Warthog had victories over F-22, maybe they do it just for fun or maybe F-22 is not that good in dogfight? who knows.
Sources???
la limite de G dépend aussi du temps d'exposition. Un scientifique qui a étudié le premier la question (et d'on j'ai oublié le nom) a pris 40G pendant 2 secondes et s'en est sorti avec une cécité temporaire (moins d'une heure) et des bleus au niveau des ceintures de sécurité.
Voyez la qualité de l'aviation française. Ne doutez pas de l'excellence des produits français, contrée par beaucoup de « basher »
8G :O forcement il hurle xD
plus même !
French Army Regiment Ç est quoi 8 G ? 😐
@@Lucifer-wz7uo La force d'apesanteur que tu ressens quand t'es debout ou assis dans ton fauteuil correspond a 1G (accélération de l'apesanteur) la le pilote quand il prend un virage il se fais "tasser" par l'énergie cinétique et il ressent 8 fois l'accélération de l'apesanteur (voir 9G parfois)
En gros il se sent 8 fois plus lourd que d'habitude et en plus, tous le sang qu'il y a dans son corps descend dans les jambe donc il souffre et fini par tomber dans les pomme si ca dure trop longtemps
@@pilotedavion6716 Bjr, je sais.... ton msg date de deux ans mais "la force d'apesanteur" n'existe pas, du moins, c'est une absurdité puisque tout objet en apesanteur n'est soumis à aucune force. Désolé, je ne le dis pas méchamment mais 1g est correspond à l’accélération gravitationnelle terrestre et fluctue en fonction de la la latitude et de l'altitude et tourne autour de 9.8 m.s-2 (environ 36 km/h chaque seconde à notre latitude) . On la nomme : pesanteur et non pas "apesanteur" qui est justement l'inverse de la pesanteur.
Cordialement
That French pilot was getting it.... But in reality, this type of engagement with a raptor would never happen.
They said the same for the F-4, you know the result.
The stealth of the plane evolve less quicker than the radar...
En réalité il cest fait defoncer pendant l'exercice point barre. Tout le reste cest de la merde
2:39 sounds that can be heard coming from my bedroom when it's me-time.
Yeah that's how it sounds when you take 9 G bro'.
But still, our Rafale killed 3 times you F22.
Easy pizzi.
I don't know if your pilots are not trained or if your aircrafts are overrated.
@@jomo3564 i think it's both
Il faudrait arrêter avec les commentaires de gens qui n'y connaissent rien. It would be better to stop the comments from people almost completly ignorant.
l'histoire ne dit pas que pendant la semaine suivante, les américains ont passés une semaine entière a enlever l'odeur de pisse du cockpit du f22 !
La combinaison du pilote du f22 a dû être jeter car irrécupérable !
French and americans have tested the F-18 in the Charles de Gaulle carrier (approach, touch and go and landing) and viceversa with the Rafale in USS Enterprise.
FACT: you don't expect your best air to air fighter to be shot down by a REAL omnirole aircraft, the Rafale A F3 and it happened.
Excuses like the fuel tanks are ashaming, and I have not any doubt is that the USAF pilot did and gave its best (this is in the DNA of any fighter pilot).
The F-22 is air superiority, the Rafale is multi-role. There's no need to invent buzzwords to try and make it seem like the french invented something they didn't.
The reason the F-22 was taken down is because during Red Flag, they test various engagements at short range because it's utterly pointless to have the F-22 just destroy anything in BVR engagements. Everyone knowing anything about aircraft and these training exercises would expect such a thing to happen, because it happens in US-only training too.
Thanks for the heads up. As a side note there was an expensive joke that happened with the superbug and Rafale though... Once during BFM training, and while a Rafale was on the 6 of a F-18, the Raffy sniffed up the superbug butt from a little too close, jammed its pitot tube, which provoked a fatal spin the Rafale wasn't able to get out of. And the plane being too low when this happened, it led to an ejection.
So you can technically say a SH DID got a kill on a Rafale. Even if, if this had been for real, there would have been 2 parachutes and two downed planes.
Since then french navy pilots have been briefed extensively on procedures to avoid these sort of very expensive pleasantries.
Americans of course will never admit it.
Love the Rafale!
Still the sound of that good old Jericho makes the French pilots wake up right frm there sleep in fear..
What? Fear today? France booted NATO and the US troops as soon as they got the "Great Equalizer" aka NUKES! and the means to deliver them ANYWHERE! That's exactly what the French minister told Eishenhower at the time, "we can deliver them anywhere' So, get out! And the scrambling to get out was out into place immediately. Docs released from the US government archives.
Who fears anyone, after they own nukes?
De Gaulle, used French nuclear knowledge which was very advanced, more so than most. See "Operation Alsos" and managed to arm France. As for those who invaded France, now they are at the mercy of the previous enemies.
Wake up.
@@wolfheimer1242 man I respect your knowledge, helped me learn new chapters today.. But I gotta say.. Arm yourself with sm sense of humour first, you got melted the moment you read the comment with fear.. Huh.. Aight man I'd rather prefer going to sleep
Rafale is very good at dogfight because it has very good turn angles comparing to the speed (i dont think im very clear there) and for the raptor i dont know much, but its a very cool aircraft. I love both of them
its sounds like darth vader was in training lol
You really think that the f22 is the best plane?!
Let me laught! All i want (as a french) is the world and particularly USA to see that the Rafale is a beautiful plane made by a beautiful country! The f22 is very good but the rafale is one of the best. De can't say wich one is better
THE BETTER
The Rafale has been tested by several countries including Canada and has been found wanting. As much as I dislike the Americans any number of their old planes from the F15 which is over 40 years old would beat the Rafale on odds, meaning that the score would read like a 20 to 1 odds. It is also the mind set of the person behind the plane and the French have failed in this regard since the first world war.
At the beginning of the second world war the French had the best tanks and were soundly defeated by the Germans on the first day of invasion.
In Indo-China stick wielding Vietnamese beat the crap out of the French units in the 1950's. In the Falklands war the Mirage III was beaten by the lowly Harrier jet hands down.
Again they send their best units to Algeria and the French are hard pressed to keep their colonial holdings in line?
Why do you suppose the French can only sell their planes to third world countries. In the long run, its about performance and what the aircraft can do in variety of situations. It s for this reason that the French are willing to try to convince Canada on the Rafale as a bargaining chip by offering to transfer technology, create jobs and share billions of dollars in business if Canada buys its Rafale fighter. Dassault Aviation said the "intellectual property" associated with the Rafale would be part of any sale, including the source codes for the fighter's computer system as well as the know-how to adapt and update the aircraft - both hardware and software - throughout its lifespan. Almost a similar offer was made to India who are considering 126 planes of which 108 would be made in India.
If for any reason that Canada considers the Rafale would be simply to create jobs and not the performance of the plane. It is cheap by comparison to the oft overrated and overblown F35.
Dassault's competitors include the F-35, the Boeing Super Hornet and the Eurofighter Typhoon. They all offer a certain amount of technology transfer, but Dassault hopes its broad offer will catch the government's attention.
I would rather that Canada go with the Super Hornet by Boeing as it has done remarkably well in all the conflicts it has been used. Given the vast expanse of Canada, I doubt that the Rafale would stand the rigors of a Canadian arctic.
Ray McCallum You mix everything and anything you say, thank you to see a specialist ...
Ray McCallum un f-15 qui bat un rafale ! ha ha ha
toi comique
toi très drôle
toi faire humour
toi te renseigner
américain jamais battu contre vraie armée occidentale (pilote russe france allemagne etc...)
moi curieux du score réel (pas hollywood(ha ha))
même pas besoin d'argumenter
Well Mickael Prevost why would I need to see a specialist? I was merely stating a response to "a beautiful plane, a beautiful country" and the obvious is that the Rafale is one borne out of nationalist pride and not necessarily one that is better than any other plane. I stated a few facts about French history to suggest that it was not perfect and history will prove that any country who deems itself beautiful has blemishes that are not easily hidden.
As for the Rafale, I suggested that it would likely fail the rigors of a Canadian north where if I might add the F18 has already proven itself as did the F15 in temperatures of -50 with wind chills even colder then that. My preference was the Super Hornet. Besides the Rafale is a very expensive plane and it would not likely see any major conflicts so why spend all that money.
It remains to be seen whether or not the Canadian government will buy the Rafale. I also stated that the Rafale would only get the contract on the notion that it would create jobs of which Dassault's has promised and its willingness to hand over the technology.
This had nothing to do with whether or not the plane was better and be a part of the Canadian air force as other planes had proven that were imminently qualified. By qualified, I mean the Super Hornet is already proven in the bone chilling cold of the Canadian Arctic and is less expensive.
When I referred to 3rd world countries, I was referring to Dassault Aviation's attempt to sell to India, Brazil and the Gulf Arab countries and even those countries are hesitant at the moment. France's defence minister played down another sales failure for Dassault's Rafale fighter jet. Instead, Brazil had opted for Sweden's Saab
Shares in Dassault Aviation's stock has fallen lately and French defense minister Jean-Yves le Drian has been trying desperately to sell the Rafale. The Euro fighter program that France broke away from is having better luck and is one of the ones Dassault competing against for large sales to Canada.
In so saying, why should Canada buy and expensive plane from a company that is struggling at the moment. There are no guarantees that Dassault Aviation can be competitive and still maintain its holdings. Unless they sell to a major western country Dassault Aviation may go the way of a dodo bird and in France's eyes, Ce ne serait pas très agréable.
Let's put this in perspective.
1. The F22 is wearing a Luneberg lens so the radar aided gun sight on the Rafale can actually track it and get a firing solution. Without that Luneberg Lens, hitting the F22 becomes almost impossible.
2. It's a staged dog fight. Both planes start at the merge where they can see each other. In a real combat scenario that is not going to happen. The F22 has stealth. That means he knows at what altitude, speed, and direction the Rafale is going. The F22 will either sneak up from behind or come out of the sun and club the Rafale before they knew what was going on. And that's IF they choose to actually engage in a dog fight. And that's if any of the Rafales survive the BVR missile volley, which the AIM 120 currently stands at a ~80% kill rate. So if any Rafales do survive, it is most likely they will be outnumbered in the dogfight since, unlike this video, planes go around in groups and not solo.
3. The F22 still has not received the HMCS. When it does, it will be even harder to kill WVR.
4. That being said, it was a good kill by the Rafale pilot and he earned it. But let's not make quick judgements because you see 1 hud kill shot. In a real war you're not fighting just the F22, you're fighting the entire US battlenet that the F22 plugs into (AWACS, cruise missiles, AEGIS, drones, decoys, etc).
In a real war, no doubt on the fact that one of our nuclear submarines would be not long far away from Washington ...
Enkhane
French Navy: 80+ combat ships
US Navy: 280+ combat ships
French Navy: 1 Aircraft carrier
US Navy: 10 Aircraft carrierS
French Navy: 4 ballistic missile submarines
US Navy: 18 ballistic missile submarines
Not really feeling you bro.
Everyone seems to forget that RWR exists when they start going glassy eyed about the F-22's stealth capability. As soon as the F-22's radar beams start to hit the Rafale (or any other aircraft equipped with RWR) the Rafale is going to know that there's an F-22 potentially spotting him on radar, and what direction he is in. This means he is going to know roughly where to point his radar, and even a jamming F-22 isn't invisible to the Rafale's radar at effective AIM-120 Range, the Rafale would still probably be able to hard lock the F-22 and launch an MICA before going defensive. Love it or hate it (ground crew will know what I mean,) the F-22 in a combat situation is a great aircraft, but it's not the semi-magical machine of death that everyone seems to think it is.
Monkey
The F22 uses an AESA radar with LPI (low probability of intercept). AESA (and LPI) is different from normal PESA radars in that it frequency hops to prevent being detected by RWR. Since the AESA does not output concentrated emissions, they are mixed in with background noise, thus undetected by the RWR.
The assumption that any plane will be able to fire back is a seriously lack of understanding of how radar and air combat work. The Rafale's pilot, in this case assuming he even detected the F22, would still need to switch his radar from search to track, obtain a lock, and maintain his course to guide his missile until it can switch to own guidance. During this whole time the AIM 120 (most likely 2 fired) has a head start on the Rafale and is within 3-7 seconds of impacting the Rafale by the time the Rafale fires. I don't think any pilot in the right mind will suicide headlong into a known missile barrage instead of instantly going defensive.
You are also relying on the F22 to make poor tactical decisions and assuming they will do a head on shot. With super cruise and stealth, F22 pilots have the option of sneaking around and doing a side or rear shot on the Rafale, thus never exposing themselves to being detected.
Finally, I'm going to go back to what I originally said that you're not fighting the F22 one on one. You need to defeat the entire US battlenet. The most realistic thing that will happen is that an AWACS will detect the non sgtealth Rafale (from the safety of being hundreds of miles away), will data link to the AIM 120 fired by the F22, and provide mid course updates until it goes active. The F22 will just be used as a firing platform and never expose itself.
You forgot that Rafale was recently equiped with advanced AESA radar, so F22 stealthy or not is visible from a long range, and that Rafale will soon receive Meteor missile. Make little search before posting because it seems that you dont know anything about Rafale's electronics and equipments.
American pilot: Lol French surrender plane
French Pilot: Hold my baguette!
just a joke guys ;) respect all pilots in the world more than a job, its a passion
У французских послевоенных истребителей от Миража 3 и далее всегда была хорошая маневренность. Это не один раз доказывали израильтяне. У наших пилотов даже поговорка сложилась: "увидел Мираж, не иди на вираж". Держут марку и ныне, конечно если не учитывать квалификацию пилотов. Хотя мне мнится, что на Ф22 всякий сброд сажать не будут.
India should give Contract to Dassualt and Make A Stealth fighter Indigenous..
I admit, the F-15's kill record has been heavily inflated, so instead look at actual capability. The F-15C has a 1.12 loaded TWR, SU-27SM2 1.03, SU-35 1.13. The F-15C and SU-35S are practically equal, while the SU-27 lags a bit. Wing loading (good proxie for maneuverability, lower number better) F-15C 358, SU-27SM2 371, SU-35S 408. The F-15 out turns both, especially the heavier 35. Both Sokhoi's have a better rate of clime, but a lower service ceiling. Speed, 27 M2.35, 35 2.25, F-15 M2.63.
F22 is overrated
Says who, you? LOL.
this video is understandable without explanation;
Stazzo82 LOL, so you're an expert at reading the HUD? Not even. Don't give me that crap. You'll notice prolonged periods where the F-22 is nowhere in sight, which is not a good thing for the Rafale. Plus the F-22 has shown even in WVR to be difficult to lock onto. Nor do we have the opportunity to see the F-22's HUD. This vid doesn't carry any weight w/o a fighter pilot's perspective that actually attended the exercise. You also fail to recognize the Rafale is flying clean. That wouldn't happen in a real battle. Once you add ordinance its performance is hindered. I'll trust the pilots and journal's commentary over your expert opinion any day.
Man, rafal win f22 lost
THAT'S ALL.
Thetequilashooter1 You say that during the time F-22 isn't in Rafale's HUD it is on his 6 ? Nonsense. This video shows F-22 can't shake of Rafale from his tail, that's it. In a low speed dogfight smaller planes appear to be more explosive and more maneuverable to the larger ones. So we have Rafale, Typhoon, Grippen, even F-16, that can be a real pain in the ass for F-15, F-22, Su-27, Mig-29 in close range low speed dogfights. The question is, would F-22 ever enter that kind of a fight. Apparently not, all would be over in a BVR fight, with long range a-a missiles. I talked to Danish F-16 pilots who had trainings vs German MiGs-29. They say F-16 is better at altitudes under 3000m. Above that MiG keeps energy better cause of his 2 engines. But he said they also had training vs Su-27 (Ukraine I think) and Su-27 beats F-16 at all altitudes nevertheless it is MUCH larger figher. Newer fighters like Rafale, Typhoon and Grippen can handle all American fighters in a DF, that's the fact.
If you think this was an 'all skill' kill by the Rafale....I encourage you to stop smoking crack my friends. The F22 is MORE than capable of dogfighting any current 3rd, 4th, and 5th gen airframe still at this present day (9/2/23) with relative ease. The scenario was set up to be as hindering to the F22 as possible and to see if the Raptor could still somehow mange a win whilst starting the fight with the Rafale already on its six (the rear of the fighter). Credit where credit is due to the Rafale pilot for scoring the "kill" but before you try to speak on the situation and down play the F22 then inflate the Rafale as a superior airframe, make sure you understand the circumstances that the battle took place. Thank you.
Totally agree. The Rafale is a good plane overall. He has abilities in everything. But it is normal that he does not win against the F22. The F22 is made for dogfighting
@@petitnormand1066 The F-22 is not made for dogfighting, it's made for BVR dominance.
@@adrien5834 It's made for both.
@@TheRealRougarou Fine. But it's the best BVR fighter, not the best dogfighter. Physics, you know.
Also, it shows once more that the quality of the pilot is more important than the quality of the machine he's flying. I'll admit the F-22 is more advanced than the Rafale, it's undeniable. However, that French driver had most excellent skills.
Fact : He was a beginner