Hearthstone Theory: An Analysis of Game-Winning Cards
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- Опубликовано: 5 окт 2024
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"You need to deal 30 damage to your opponent, sometimes more"
Laughs in OTK Paladin
Theres a new OTK Paladin deck in wild which doesn't need Beardo/Bullies so is a little more consistent in that regard but needs a double Thaurissian proc (aka Enchanter) to have enough mana for it
Acelgof there is an OTK paladin in standard that uses ancient brewmaster and Zola, the deck is very good
yeah, been meaning to try it out, but it is a lot worse for me as I always get the same horseman in a game if that one just got removed from the board FeelsBadMan
SLIFER THE EXECUTIVE PRODUCER YESSSSSSSSS
Loved the deadpan delivery on that one haha
Honey Lulu only few got that reference
Yugioh abridged was the shit man
7:10 they run al'akir because its really good with corpsetaker though. The minion itsself is not that great
MrMoustachioo also with flametongue can be pretty good
Oh my god that Yu-Gi-Oh reference with slifer the executive producer...loved it! Good old times
I don't really agree with your definition of "capstones" as I don't consider all high-cost cards hard to play. Sure, you have to survive till turn 8 to play Tirion, but unless your deck is poorly built or an extremely aggressive deck is proving hyper-effective and running rampant (pirate warrior, deathrattle hunter...) you should be able to get there as either you're playing an aggressive deck or have counter measures against those. And once you get to turn 8, Tirion is a card you just slam on the board and gain instant value practically whatever the board state.
Same thing with Dr.Boom, Savannah Highmane, Lich King, Ragnaros or Frostlich Jaina. If you have them, you play them with little to no drawback. Playing one of these cards is almost never a bad decision and as such they cannot be considered "hard to play". On the other hand cards like N'Zoth, Sylvanas, Deathwing, Kel'Thuzad or Antonidas require fulfilling certain prerequisites to show their full power despite having a high cost too. To me, they don't belong in the same category and putting them together is misleading.
Sylvanas required no skill, the prerequisite is that the other side plays minions and then it's a good card. N'Zoth has little to no skill. Any deck that plays at least 3 or 4 deathrattles like quest priest or cubelock he is a no brainer to put in. Their effects and presence on the board are immediate and devastating for both those cards and can be played at almost any time without too much thought.
I didn't say skill, I said prerequisites. Sylvanas isn't good if you play it on an empty board or against a board full of 1/1 tokens, as for N'zoth, it requires you to have enough deathrattles in your deck and to have played them before. they are conditionally good instead of always at their peak level. By the way, by this definition, a card can fit in that category while being terrible. Gruul will always be at its strongest when you play it whatever the deck you include it in is or the board state, it's just that its strongest isn't enough?
I waned to love Tirion; mostly because I actually love him in the WoW lore, though. In actual matches, it was... eh.
I haven't played very many matches to be honest, but even so, I didn't get to use him properly a single time. Either the match was over quickly, I just didn't draw him, or I did play him but lost like the next round anyway. If you're against a priest, it's pretty much guaranteed they just steal him and even if you kill him off, your opponent, the frickin' PRIEST gets the Ashbringer, and not you (which is pretty much complete fucking bullshit in my opinion, but hey, that's how it is) or you get something annoying like polymorph or hex or whatever anything that just removes him instantly.
Man, I really, really tried to win a single battle with him, but no luck.
But then I got Baku the Mooneater and man, I'm not ever gonna switch away from an uneven deck now (unless they nerf it or whatever), so that removes Tirion for me, anyway. So long, Highlord... It still ticks me off how they just killed you off like some random nobody in Legion ;(
They are harder to play, but in more subtle way. The following applies to high cost cards witch ARE capstones and are harder to play, there may be some exception in a special card that's easy to play and is high statted and so aren't capstones but most aren't.
1. cards of higher mana (lich king etc.) are dead cards in your hand if you don't have the mana for them.
2. cards of higher mana are subtly difficult to play because they are vulnerable when first played, often leaving you with a pretty much dud turn, frostlich jaina or lich king, but then provide great value if you have a board so they survive playing them. most high cost cards are like that, as in they require a board and certain preparation to unleash their value. that doesn't go for low cost cards since they aren't dead cards early in the game and don't take up a whole turn.
Did you just forget mana costs in prerequisites? Dr.Boom, Savannah Highmane, Lich King, Ragnaros or Frostlich Jaina all can't be played early. That's prerequisites. And as such a well constructed deck won't have 30 of those cards. If they really do have no prerequisites then what's stopping you jamming the deck full of them.
Also here's an idea for a video: I'd love to see an analysis on removal cards, and how different types of removal abilities affect the game. It's interesting to consider the difference between single target removal (Polymorph, Assassinate, Syphon Soul), Board Clears (Firestrike, Volcano, Twisting Neather), random removal (pick any of Hunter's hard removal lol), and specific removal (Drakeslayer and any number of the crab cards)
It would also be interesting to look over the "Evasive" card ability (IE "Can't be targeted by Spells or Hero Powers") and consider how that interacts with Removal and the Hero Powers of various classes.
2:38 I see what you did there with the hero power :)
I like to call the Priest/reanimate deck a ‘power’ deck. Virtually every single card has a huge effect - destroying all creatures or putting a giant super-creature into play. You’re missing ‘Combo’ or OTK (one turn kill) decks. ‘Control’ used to sometimes be called, ‘control/combo’
Hs has a unique characteristic for a card game which is you only start with 3 cards in hand, Meaning that playable cards might not come when you need them. sometimes a turn 2 or 3 van cleef 8/8 will cause you to lose the game right away because your 5 posible answers wherent drew. But the oponent doesn´t instantly lose if he doesn´t draw van cleef. This is one of the reasons, agro is so popular in HS.
What is the win condition?
Me: Galvadon, the last kaleidosaur, he got windfury and a whole lot more!
Fast-foward a month, now Leeroy is a key part of Odd Paladin
Hey dude I’m really enjoying your videos! Keep it up I love your content and watched all of it the other day so keep putting stuff out.
Really interesting content!! This video represent really why card games such as HS are complex and interesting. Great job!
Slifer is just horrible. Its basically Deathwing with 5/6 except Yugioh has far more far more consistent removal options.
tobias h I mean blue eyes isn’t a capstone anymore either but from the original series perspective it shows power
The witchwood meta has been extremely interesting. At the start of the set there was mostly aggro and midrange with cubelock managing to do very well but even paladin was just so strong with call to arms. With only a few nerfs, cubelock was balanced and the extremely powerful even paladin was completely destroyed and the entire meta slowed down, now being dominated by control and midrange with a few fast decks breaking through like odd rogue. Since the meta slowed down like this, shudderwock was able to get to its late game a lot easier and then dominated control decks by playing 10 shudderwocks.
(I could have missed some things, please comment if you have any other thoughts :))
Is a midrange deck just a mix of agro and control? If so, maybe we should think of the “3 types of decks” as just a spectrum. It’s more accurate and more fun :)))
I disagree with almost everything you said but this video is well presented and you seem very genuine and it makes your content easy to enjoy so I'm subscribing anyway
Congrats on getting Legend! Also, nice Yugioh joke! I got it!
I usually like my decks to have multiple win condituons just in case. I think it makes them versatile, if perhaps a bit clunky.
I love your videos
Please keep making them
for the 3 archetypes i personally consider otk decks to be there own type of deck instead of control
But OTK decks survive until the late game.
Yes, they don't aim on squeezing every last drop of power out of each card, but instead use powerful, generally late game card synergies to generate large tempo swings.
To get to the late game though, the have to use the same tools as regular control decks, as both decks have capstones that only work late game
Could you do a video on 'win me more cards' video? By this, I mean cards which are very high power plays and often enough are there to hyper-accelerate your advantage/victory. Examples being: flappy bird, prince 2, Edwin, mountain giant, shudderwock, death knights, etc. They're similar to the cards in this video, but I feel more that they're not as important to build your deck around, but more to just fill a curve with a power play so that you get a certain chance every turn to just basically win the game by playing that card in the lucky scenario. Prime example being prince 2, it's not really creating the archetype of your deck, but it gives you a certain chance of just winning the game before it's played out if you draw it early. I feel like a lot of good decks lately have a certain mixture of these win me more cards to give them an RNG win condition for basically any matchup.
"win-more" cards are cards that are good when you're ahead and bad when you're behind.
fledgeling is a win more card: if you're ahead on board it can win the game instantly, but if you're behind, it's just a 3mana 3/3 which sucks.
keleseth, edwin, mountain giants and shudderwock are not win more cards. They're... single-card win conditions?
Why is warlock not mentioned once when you were going down the lists of decks?
Warlock can use any sort of deck at the moment, I guess?
So I already have an emmeris deck. Its basically a controlling deck (or slower midrange since you know, hunter), and how I use emeriss is buff up a crap ton of zombeasts and maybe my king crush while Im at it.
sakmi kuhl I think your better of disenchanting that card lol I run the same deck but don’t have king krush and disenchanted emyrisis because the spell/secret hunter seems a lot better
you shoudlt desenchant legendaries due no dupe rule.
VexusFrost If you play a good deck, then you are, in my oppinion, a boring netdecking casual. No offense ofcourse, thats not a bad thing, I just dislike it, as I tend to create my own decks.
I play a tier 1deck in wild with odd rogue, its my creattion i made anat start of month adn slowly improved and just happend to be really close to best version.
I have alot of decks i made my own (jade rogue)and others i dint make.(like jade druid )
couple weeks ago, emeriss hunter was the 7th best performing list in the whole game:
image.ibb.co/nLVszo/emeriss.png
of course it's probably due to variance with small sample size
but still it's not bad
Ah, this channel is so good
Its sad to see my main class(priest) to be at its lowest. Im just trying to get a white lady deck to work.
Who would have thought that quest rouge would become a control deck?
Awesome video, keep this up!
King Krush is not hard to play. You slam it on board and hit face.
It's 8 mana though, which is unthinkably expensive for aggro.
Dexxus
Midrange. It's just a worse pyroblast.
elliott hansen But King Krush is 9 mana....
Matt Petruska
Again, that's not hard to play. That's hard to cast. Playing Krush is the easiest thing besides hitting face with Pyroblast, and if you're running Krush and can't get to turn nine, your deck has other problems.
krush is the card that is held in hand the longest. It is hard to play
Lynessa has seen some niche play as a win condition (or at least a very high value play), but hasn't been used much simply because Paladin's Buffs as a whole are fairly weak and are incredibly slow in terms of tempo. As a one-of Blessing of Kings, Hand of Protection(/Potion of Heroism), and Blessing of Might can be a good for keeping a minion alive or clearing an enemy minion. But overall the Paladin buffs range from "Decent in Arena" (Sound the Bells) to "Why the fuck would you run this?" (Blessing of Wisdom) to "Actually why the fuck would you run this?" (Adaptation) Right now the only card buff Paladin really has to play with is Spikeridge Steed, which is far too powerful in its own right. Every other card is either too slow, too weak, or takes too much setup to use well. That isn't even mentioning how ludicriously suseptible Buff Paladin is to Silence effects.
As for Emeris and Lady in White: They aren't win conditions so much as deck buffing cards. While I don't think Emeris should have her cost lowered (dear god no I don't want Hunter to pull a 4/10 Tundra Rhino and then play a Young Dragonhawk and give it Flaming Claws twice with Crackling Razormaw) I think Lady in White would be fairly balanced at 4 mana.
aggro, midrange, control, attrition. and the odd one out, combo
i miss combo warrior so much please
Technically the main archetypes in CCGs are Aggro, Combo and Control. All of these should be well balanced, as in Aggro>Combo, Combo>Control and Control>Aggro. All of the other archetypes, like Midrange are a combination of some of these core archetypes.
Jozko Krssak Combo decks aren't distinct from aggro control or midrange, they are subcategories of them. You have combo decks that are aggro decks (Quest Rogue before it's first nerf), combo decks that are midrange (Pre WotOG Druid with old FoN+ Savage Roar) and combo decks that are control decks (Freeze mage). Typically, aggro's powerturns are in turn 1 to 6, Midrange are in turn 3 to 8 while control are in turn 7+. It's typically aggro>midrange (Midrange can't usually deal with early pressure), Midrange>Control (Control can't answer every threat in the midgame efficiently), and control>aggro (Aggro loses once Control survive and stabilize past turn 6) with variations within the archetypes (Freeze mage worst matchup is Control Warrior for instance but control warrior was unfavored against FoN druid)
While it is true that prenerf Quest Rogue was very aggressive, I still think it's a combo deck. Combo decks rely on a combination of cards which under the right circumstances yield immense power. The rest of their deck is either draw, or cards that buy them time. They do poorly against Aggro because it runs them over, and well against Control, because most of the action is out of Control's reach. Some cards may or may not get the enemy in lethal range (FoN Druid, Freeze Mage), but that doesn't make them different archetypes. Freeze Mage still needs to get most of their burn hit by Thaurissan, FoN needs a clear/mostly empty board, QR needs time. Combo isn't a subcategory, it is a completely different style of play, whereas Mid-range is a mix of Aggro and Control.
Jozko Krssak Quest Rogue pre nerf was both a combo and an aggro deck. Aggro Midrange and Control are terms used to categorize a deck based on what turns this deck is proactive and setting up its wincondition, while combo is a subcategory just like Tempo decks that categorize how the decks is winning. For instance, Aggro decks can either be using a powerful combination of cards to overwhelm the opponent in the first turns (Quest Rogue in Un'goro), only focus on doing damage to the enemy hero at the expense of anything else (Face Hunter), or flooding the boards with minions to quickly kill the enemy with your tempo (Murloc Paladin) 3 different gameplans that operates in the first 6 turns, hence they are aggro decks. Control, likewise, can either rely on cards that generate value to win like Ysera or the Lich King, use a combo to kill the opponent after turn 10 like Freeze Mage or Mindblast Priest, or simply outlast everything their opponent throw at them before letting them die of fatigue (DMH Warrior). In all 3 cases they are control decks because they win in the late game. If we have to make a division of decks with combo as a category, it wouldn't be with aggro and control, but with Face Decks, Tempo Decks Value Decks and Fatigue Decks since they describe how the decks wins as opposed to when the decks win (Aggro, Midrange and Control)
I run leeroy as a capstone in my wild odd pally just because board clears are more common
Granted my version of the list is mainly capstones just because I play it truly mid range and build the early game around taking advantage of the hero power and then slam a lot of value and aggression down after turn 3
Would Snowfury Spellstone Shaman be control or combo?
Use term "win codition" to talk about win condition, but stay away from naming them win-conditions.
Man this looks like a cool uno game where do i get it
Do a video on warrior in today's meta
why do you think spiteful decks are dead
OK so you reference slifer the executive producer... But its the only one that is,nt considered a capstone card :( 0/10
Shr/_/g blue eyes isn’t capstone after..
Im actualy playing lady in whit priest and so far it seems good
Even steven is a good book.
What HS card would this guy be? Example, Toast=SI:7 Agent and Firebat=Firebat.
Headless the coin
Or maybe Wanted! since he's penniless.
Hmm... but what abt mountain giant in handlock? Is tht considered a capstone card?
yeah
you basically need a full hand in order to play it
Look how complicated they made this rolling of dice game... it’s almost like its skill based lol
wow that omnislash jab targeted at my comment on the nerfs video saying they said it wasnt dead. ok soz man but a really good miracle list was discovered like a day before the nerfs and now just happens to be better than quest rogue with the nerfs. if it wasnt so good quest woudlve been good.
A win-condition ? Like codex shredder ? xD
PYROBLAST IN FREEZE!!!?!?!!?! OMG NEVER
I'm new to the game and I went mid range ish hunter with spellstone etc, but what would you recommend as a cheap build
Probably spell hunter since u seem to have some of the cards for it already
YU GI OH ABRIDGED REFFERENCE
Most odd paladins run leeroy.
get it guys
So are combo decks (like say malygos rogue) a variant of control?
William Umbranox or a variant of agro or midrange. Are they trying to rush out the combo before the opponet can win, or are they using it as a wincon after taking control of the game, or using the combo to make their midgame opressive.
I would say no. Combo decks plays early game like a tempo deck, and wants to draw a lot of cards in the mid game to get the combo pieces. Combo decks can often win without their combo pieces.
he1ar1 nah. You and I arent talking about the same thing. I am talking about combo decks. Decks where you go all in on a literal handful of cards, then load the rest of your deck with card draw and stall.
Since I am assuming you are talking about miracle rogue, let me tell you that miracle rogue simply has a leeroy combo. That combo is 1 of many win conditions. Spider attrition and big ass van cleef, being some others that are all included in the deck. Miracle doesnt give a fuck how it wins. Malygos rogue get malygos on to the board, plays spell damage to face or ot loses. Miracle has a combo, malygos has a combo and nothing else.
Patron warrior and quest rogue before nerfs could win before getting the combo and could also do a otk with more than 30 damage. Yes their nerfs were justified.
Most combo decks are control decks with the combo instead of the individual finishers, and some draw.
Ah, level up in odd pal. Press F
0:03 are*
No, I think it should be "is". The "is"/"are" is referring to his opinion, not to the nerfs, so it should be singular.
It's his opinions of the nerfs.
Aggro: out-curve your opponent by giving away late and mid game
mid decks: aggro but you fit in some good cards
control: make use of the greater and greater crazy op 10 mana cards
This Is both too simplified and wrong.
Midrange Is nothing like aggro - Its strength lies in Its flexibility. Back before Naxxramas was released (HS's first expansion), we had 3 genuine midrange decks, and they existed in about this order of power:
Shaman, Bane of Wallet Warrior (One of the strongest decks in the metagame)
Hunter, Bane of Hunter. (Midrange Hunter vs Aggro Hunter was always an interesting matchup - However, in general, the midrange would win If only because they usually packed one taunt whereas aggro would pack none.)
And Paladin, bane of nothing in particular. While strong against control warrior, Paladin upon release was nothing special, and the fact that Paladins managed to find a niché place in the meta without a strong tempo card (until GvG), speaks a lot for how the game was played back then.
A Shaman would out-value the warrior and lay down a lot of pressure with high value and high tempo minions (Fire Elemental was the highest tempo minion in original hearthstone, while also having one of the highest values of about 7-8 Mana), while simotaneously removing the biggest threats in the warrior's deck with Hex, plus their totems were a constant threat due to windfury(Yes, windfury was actually run.) Double Rockbiter Flametongue/Bloodlust, which would end up with a 0/2 Stoneclaw smacking you in the face for up to 18 damage. (+3+3+3*2). Not to mention that as a control warrior, removing Shaman minions were a nightmare, as they often were aggressively statted, which meant you were taking a lot of damage, and you had to sit there wondering If they were going to doomhammer rockbiter, or Al'Akir Flametongue/Rockbiter, or double lava burst, or in the case of GvG, If they were going to Ancestral Call malygos down and smack you three times in the face with 30 damage from spells.
P2W. Maybe I should leave again.
Slifer is a terrible card it's not even used in competitive
Lmao someone is watching too much Yu-gi-oh Tas
300fusionfall there's no such thing as too much ygotas
ygotas
velen got lost haha
w00
Great video again as every time. But I want to hear you rant more. Cause Blizzard clearly doesn't watch your video's. Here is a nice subject.:
Never made it to the legendary rank. Not on normal not on wild. But when I go to arena or just play ladder games I must play against legendary players or ex lengendary players. Epic algorithm Blizzard. Also I wouldn't be suprised if Blizzard has a special one for the succesfull streamers. Yeah they play brilliant and are a bit smarter or more knowing that then plebs, but the amount they win is suspicious at least.
Notification squad!
I am a D&D player.
Please do not call those capstones. A capstone is also a finishing, superability near level 20, like a 5e Paladin's PHENOMENAL COSMIC POWER forms.
Excuse me kind sir, are you a homosexual?