Question - I noticed 20 tuning pegs yet I see (and heard you say) that there are 18 strings. Are the two higher register unused pegs just extras, or is there an alternate stringing method that doubles up on certain notes or extends the range? Just curious - and this was a great video! Always loved theorbo music since I discovered it over a decade ago. Fascinating instrument!
Good question and well spotted! The first 2 diatonic bass strings are on the fingerboard, so that you can fret the accidentals F# and G#. When I had it made these were double as well, the original is like that. However when it was strung up the wound strings at the same pitch phased against each other badly and sounded awful. Usually double strings at the same pitch are higher up, lower strings are generally in octaves. We don't know how the original was strung and with what type of strings, perhaps those 2 courses were in octaves. For continuo playing it probably wouldn't matter, but for playing solos it would be nonsensical to have only 2 bass notes in octaves but all the others not, so the maker suggested single strings. This actually makes a better transition to the single long bass strings that follow. So that is why there are 2 redundant pegs.
Hello! I’m in the United States and I’m interested in getting a theorbo. Do you know any makers in the US and what should I look for in my instrument? Are some instruments longer than others? If so, why? What is ideal to perform continuo parts for a small to medium sized baroque ensemble?
Unfortunately the situation is quite complex, even though the theorbo was only used for around 200 years, there are various types with each country and even era having instruments of different sizes and tunings. There isn't really one kind that can play everything, unlike say the violin which only changed marginally in that time. The main thing regarding the size for playability is fingerboard string length. The theorbo in this video is a rare German type with a different and slightly higher tuning, the usual kind is the Italian type in A. Typical string length would be about 85cm, much bigger and you get big stretches and it's more difficult to play agile parts (unless you have big hands) and much smaller compromises the volume and projection. Are you on Facebook?
Given the advances in string technology, do you think converting a Renaissance Lute to a Theorbo, can still achieve deep resonant basses without adding a neck extension? Does the Theorbo utilize any double-course strings?
A theorbo is considerably larger than a Renaissance lute so the sound at theorbo pitch would be weak due to the small body. Wound bass strings did exist in the 18th century, as used on the 13-course lute, but they are nothing like as strong as these long open basses. My theorbo is after a German instrument from 1728, when wound strings were available, but they still used the long extension because it sounds and carries much better. This type has double fingerboard strings, the more usual Italian theorbo historically had either double or single courses, but 99% of players today use single.
I may have an opportunity to join a baroque group but I can’t seem too find out if I would need an archlute or a theobro . They don’t do operas but Vivaldi ,Corelli and Bach possibly some cantatas in the future as it’s a fairly new group .Thanks and great channel .
Yes Q an 8 course lute . I would prefer the archlute because I can play its solo repertoire and also music from the renaissance . I can only afford one of the two so its importamt to make the right choice .
Ah OK there is a good maker who does budget instruments in the UK I was going to recommend. Unfortunately with lute instruments, the form and tuning changed a lot from c.1500 - 1800 so one type doesn't cover all repertoire. The standard Italian theorbo is generally better for 17th century music, is bigger and so generally louder, but also lower in pitch. The archlute is often more suited to the 18th century as the basslines became higher and more active. The archlute is higher in pitch which carries more, but also has a smaller body and string length which makes it quieter. They also favour certain keys - theorbo more sharp, archlute more flat. There is solo repertoire for both Italian theorbo and archlute, although more for theorbo I think. If you play renaissance lute then the archlute will be a much easier transition as it's essentially the same tuning and only a bit larger, theorbo is quite different. There is also the question of whether you are using nails - nails are fine on a single strung theorbo but not on a double strung archlute. So not a simple answer unfortunately.
COMPOSING QUESTION. Ive been doing research into modern writing for Theorbo and I am wondering what clef would I write for it in for modern music and would I use like treble clef, or treble clef 8va, or Bass clef. Because I heard to use treble clef but when writing for the bass strings the notes are like 18 Ledger Lines below the staff and it seems like incredibly low..
Theorbo solos are always played from tablature, and any player would transfer it to that so the notation it is initially written in isn't so important, as long as it's clear. Classical guitar is written in octave treble clef, but that is not great and means you get a lot of ledger lines above and below, and fitting more complex parts all on one stave can be difficult. The theorbo has a bigger bass range so that would be impossible. I think piano notation on treble & bass clefs would make more sense, although the melody line would often be on ledger lines. The bassline should be written in bass clef definitely, the bass strings run from A on the bottom space of the bass clef diatonically to the G a 9th below that (or F on mine, which is a rare German theorbo).
Do you tune to the modern tuning standards of A440Hz? I was led to understand many years ago, I think while doing music A level, or while playing baroque chamber music on flute, that baroque tuning was to a different Hz value for concert A and so sounds oddly flat to the modern ear.
Yes this is tuned to A=415, so a semitone below modern pitch. There were regional variations, even within the same country, some places were A=392 and some higher. It gradually rose and standardised in the early 19th century.
@@Quatrapuntal thank you for replying. I find it really interesting that there was such a lot of variation in pitching across regions too. It makes sense with pitch standardising across the 19th century in terms of flute history too. I think it must have been [period] flutes tuned to A392 that I heard played that sounded quite unusual. I had it as A380 in my head but A392 would be reasonable.
392 is a tone below modern pitch. It must have been quite a headache for travelling wind players, a violin can accommodate small differences or restring if necessary, obviously the intonation would get messed up on a wind instrument. I have this problem when playing with modern instruments at A=440, with so many strings a semitone up increases the overall tension significantly so you can't just tune up without damaging it. I have a special capo, but that only covers the fingerboard strings. I end up completely slackening off the lowest 4 bass strings so that I can tune the rest up - but have to remember not to use the bottom 4! The pitch causes problems for singers as well, especially operas written at A=392 which become a whole tone higher at modern pitch.
Classical guitar is pretty different from the lute, especially the 13-course baroque lute which is pretty far away in right hand technique. The theorbo is more like the baroque lute in terms of technique, much more so than the renaissance lute or guitar. The theorbo is mostly used for accompaniment though, so you also have to learn how to play basso continuo (the improvised baroque accompaniment). Most professional lutenists will play the theorbo as that is where most of the freelancing work is, playing continuo parts. I had a German theorbo because at the time I was playing mostly D-minor tuned 13-course lute and it has the same basic tuning, making it easier to switch between them. The Italian tuning is totally different. I also wanted something a bit different as 99% of modern theorbos are Italian. This shows and demonstrates the 13-course lute: ruclips.net/video/r4FaF7eH8Tg/видео.html
Hi thanks for your interest. I am currently working on an album of the historical stuff, including the Baron piece on the theorbo and some other parts of that. At the moment everything is here on RUclips, but next year it will be available as a CD/download etc. I have also been recording an album of the original music for a few years now but covid has massively disrupted that. I can let you know here when something is out?
@@Quatrapuntal I would love to know when your music is available. I often listen Allegro by E. G. Baron. It really is a wonderful instrument, and some wonderful music.
Not that I know of, however Vienna was an important centre for the mandora in the early 19th century when Stauffer was active, so it's highly likely he came across it. If you see my previous video on this channel, it is the last surviving piece for lute instruments from 1818. It is played on an early 19th century mandora modelled after descriptions from the Viennese guitarist Simon Molitor.
How do I start learning the lute if I don´t want to spend several thousand pounds without knowing if I will like it? Would it be strange to contact a lute player in my country and ask for lessons? If I want to play the repertoire of John Dowland and Robert de Visee, which lute type works best?
Hejsan! There is a Swedish guitar & lute society who may be able to help: sgls.nu Unfortunately there isn’t one type of lute that you can play all music on, there were many variations in different countries and historical periods. But the main two types are renaissance (Dowland etc.) which is much more similar tuning and technique to the guitar, and baroque (De Visee, Weiss, Bach etc.) which has a completely different tuning and technique. If you watch my video about the development of the lute it explains and demonstrates this: ruclips.net/video/r4FaF7eH8Tg/видео.html I would suggest starting with a renaissance lute as almost everyone does. I know the UK Lute Society have instruments you can hire to try out, not sure about the Swedish version. Some makers do ‘student’ lutes using less expensive woods and decoration which are good to start with. James Marriage who made my mandora (which is in quite a few of my videos) does excellent student lutes. You can also find them second hand sometimes, the UK Lute Society is the biggest I think it would be worth joining the Facebook group if you can. There is also a Facebook group for the Swedish version I think.
In South Africa a theorbo would cost the same as a Suzuki Swift then. Then cost the same to get it here from Europe. So a music teacher would have to save for about 5 years to get one. Maybe it would be faster to get some millionaire to donate some theorboes for hire then...
There are cheaper ones which are lower quality, also sometimes second hand. I can't imagine that it would cost several thousand pounds to post an instrument? If so cheaper to buy a return plane ticket and fetch it. But yes, an expensive thing to get into to be sure.
Thank you for this very interesting , informative and well presented vid!.
love this sir
Question - I noticed 20 tuning pegs yet I see (and heard you say) that there are 18 strings. Are the two higher register unused pegs just extras, or is there an alternate stringing method that doubles up on certain notes or extends the range? Just curious - and this was a great video! Always loved theorbo music since I discovered it over a decade ago. Fascinating instrument!
Good question and well spotted! The first 2 diatonic bass strings are on the fingerboard, so that you can fret the accidentals F# and G#. When I had it made these were double as well, the original is like that. However when it was strung up the wound strings at the same pitch phased against each other badly and sounded awful. Usually double strings at the same pitch are higher up, lower strings are generally in octaves. We don't know how the original was strung and with what type of strings, perhaps those 2 courses were in octaves. For continuo playing it probably wouldn't matter, but for playing solos it would be nonsensical to have only 2 bass notes in octaves but all the others not, so the maker suggested single strings. This actually makes a better transition to the single long bass strings that follow. So that is why there are 2 redundant pegs.
Hello! I’m in the United States and I’m interested in getting a theorbo. Do you know any makers in the US and what should I look for in my instrument? Are some instruments longer than others? If so, why? What is ideal to perform continuo parts for a small to medium sized baroque ensemble?
Unfortunately the situation is quite complex, even though the theorbo was only used for around 200 years, there are various types with each country and even era having instruments of different sizes and tunings. There isn't really one kind that can play everything, unlike say the violin which only changed marginally in that time. The main thing regarding the size for playability is fingerboard string length. The theorbo in this video is a rare German type with a different and slightly higher tuning, the usual kind is the Italian type in A. Typical string length would be about 85cm, much bigger and you get big stretches and it's more difficult to play agile parts (unless you have big hands) and much smaller compromises the volume and projection. Are you on Facebook?
Hello, great video! Question: Do you use a stand for your theorbo? If yes which one? I was searching for one but could not find anything...
Do you mean a stand that supports it whilst playing? Or a stand to hold it vertically when not being played?
Stand to hold it when not playing :)
No, I usually put it in the case when not played, a guitar stand fits my mandora but not the theorbo. Maybe one for a bass if there is such a thing?
Given the advances in string technology, do you think converting a Renaissance Lute to a Theorbo, can still achieve deep resonant basses without adding a neck extension?
Does the Theorbo utilize any double-course strings?
A theorbo is considerably larger than a Renaissance lute so the sound at theorbo pitch would be weak due to the small body. Wound bass strings did exist in the 18th century, as used on the 13-course lute, but they are nothing like as strong as these long open basses. My theorbo is after a German instrument from 1728, when wound strings were available, but they still used the long extension because it sounds and carries much better. This type has double fingerboard strings, the more usual Italian theorbo historically had either double or single courses, but 99% of players today use single.
I may have an opportunity to join a baroque group but I can’t seem too find out if I would need an archlute or a theobro . They don’t do operas but Vivaldi ,Corelli and Bach possibly some cantatas in the future as it’s a fairly new group .Thanks and great channel .
There's not a simple answer to that question! Do you play another kind of lute already?
Yes Q an 8 course lute . I would prefer the archlute because I can play its solo repertoire and also music from the renaissance . I can only afford one of the two so its importamt to make the right choice .
Which country are you in?
Canada near Toronto .
Ah OK there is a good maker who does budget instruments in the UK I was going to recommend. Unfortunately with lute instruments, the form and tuning changed a lot from c.1500 - 1800 so one type doesn't cover all repertoire. The standard Italian theorbo is generally better for 17th century music, is bigger and so generally louder, but also lower in pitch. The archlute is often more suited to the 18th century as the basslines became higher and more active. The archlute is higher in pitch which carries more, but also has a smaller body and string length which makes it quieter. They also favour certain keys - theorbo more sharp, archlute more flat. There is solo repertoire for both Italian theorbo and archlute, although more for theorbo I think. If you play renaissance lute then the archlute will be a much easier transition as it's essentially the same tuning and only a bit larger, theorbo is quite different. There is also the question of whether you are using nails - nails are fine on a single strung theorbo but not on a double strung archlute. So not a simple answer unfortunately.
COMPOSING QUESTION. Ive been doing research into modern writing for Theorbo and I am wondering what clef would I write for it in for modern music and would I use like treble clef, or treble clef 8va, or Bass clef. Because I heard to use treble clef but when writing for the bass strings the notes are like 18 Ledger Lines below the staff and it seems like incredibly low..
Theorbo solos are always played from tablature, and any player would transfer it to that so the notation it is initially written in isn't so important, as long as it's clear. Classical guitar is written in octave treble clef, but that is not great and means you get a lot of ledger lines above and below, and fitting more complex parts all on one stave can be difficult. The theorbo has a bigger bass range so that would be impossible. I think piano notation on treble & bass clefs would make more sense, although the melody line would often be on ledger lines. The bassline should be written in bass clef definitely, the bass strings run from A on the bottom space of the bass clef diatonically to the G a 9th below that (or F on mine, which is a rare German theorbo).
Have you had much experience with archlutes?
I don't own one, but I borrowed one years ago to do a series of concerts on. What did you want to know about archlutes?
Also, sorry for two comments, but why switch from italian to german theorbo
No problem, feel free to make as many comments as you like!
Do you tune to the modern tuning standards of A440Hz? I was led to understand many years ago, I think while doing music A level, or while playing baroque chamber music on flute, that baroque tuning was to a different Hz value for concert A and so sounds oddly flat to the modern ear.
Yes this is tuned to A=415, so a semitone below modern pitch. There were regional variations, even within the same country, some places were A=392 and some higher. It gradually rose and standardised in the early 19th century.
@@Quatrapuntal thank you for replying. I find it really interesting that there was such a lot of variation in pitching across regions too. It makes sense with pitch standardising across the 19th century in terms of flute history too. I think it must have been [period] flutes tuned to A392 that I heard played that sounded quite unusual. I had it as A380 in my head but A392 would be reasonable.
392 is a tone below modern pitch. It must have been quite a headache for travelling wind players, a violin can accommodate small differences or restring if necessary, obviously the intonation would get messed up on a wind instrument. I have this problem when playing with modern instruments at A=440, with so many strings a semitone up increases the overall tension significantly so you can't just tune up without damaging it. I have a special capo, but that only covers the fingerboard strings. I end up completely slackening off the lowest 4 bass strings so that I can tune the rest up - but have to remember not to use the bottom 4! The pitch causes problems for singers as well, especially operas written at A=392 which become a whole tone higher at modern pitch.
If one is familiar with classic guitar and lute, is this basically played the same way? I cant imagine there being many theorbo teachers around
Classical guitar is pretty different from the lute, especially the 13-course baroque lute which is pretty far away in right hand technique. The theorbo is more like the baroque lute in terms of technique, much more so than the renaissance lute or guitar. The theorbo is mostly used for accompaniment though, so you also have to learn how to play basso continuo (the improvised baroque accompaniment). Most professional lutenists will play the theorbo as that is where most of the freelancing work is, playing continuo parts.
I had a German theorbo because at the time I was playing mostly D-minor tuned 13-course lute and it has the same basic tuning, making it easier to switch between them. The Italian tuning is totally different. I also wanted something a bit different as 99% of modern theorbos are Italian. This shows and demonstrates the 13-course lute: ruclips.net/video/r4FaF7eH8Tg/видео.html
@@Quatrapuntal thank you for the reply, that about covers it!
Where can we buy your music?
Hi thanks for your interest. I am currently working on an album of the historical stuff, including the Baron piece on the theorbo and some other parts of that. At the moment everything is here on RUclips, but next year it will be available as a CD/download etc. I have also been recording an album of the original music for a few years now but covid has massively disrupted that. I can let you know here when something is out?
@@Quatrapuntal I would love to know when your music is available. I often listen Allegro by E. G. Baron. It really is a wonderful instrument, and some wonderful music.
@@lawrencewhiting4927 thank you, I will be recording other parts of the same piece of music by Baron, I'll let you know when it's available.
Did Stauffer ever make lutes?
Not that I know of, however Vienna was an important centre for the mandora in the early 19th century when Stauffer was active, so it's highly likely he came across it. If you see my previous video on this channel, it is the last surviving piece for lute instruments from 1818. It is played on an early 19th century mandora modelled after descriptions from the Viennese guitarist Simon Molitor.
How do I start learning the lute if I don´t want to spend several thousand pounds without knowing if I will like it?
Would it be strange to contact a lute player in my country and ask for lessons?
If I want to play the repertoire of John Dowland and Robert de Visee, which lute type works best?
Hi which country are you in? Do you play the classical guitar already?
@@Quatrapuntal I live in Sweden and play a little classical guitar.
Hejsan! There is a Swedish guitar & lute society who may be able to help: sgls.nu
Unfortunately there isn’t one type of lute that you can play all music on, there were many variations in different countries and historical periods. But the main two types are renaissance (Dowland etc.) which is much more similar tuning and technique to the guitar, and baroque (De Visee, Weiss, Bach etc.) which has a completely different tuning and technique. If you watch my video about the development of the lute it explains and demonstrates this:
ruclips.net/video/r4FaF7eH8Tg/видео.html
I would suggest starting with a renaissance lute as almost everyone does. I know the UK Lute Society have instruments you can hire to try out, not sure about the Swedish version. Some makers do ‘student’ lutes using less expensive woods and decoration which are good to start with. James Marriage who made my mandora (which is in quite a few of my videos) does excellent student lutes. You can also find them second hand sometimes, the UK Lute Society is the biggest I think it would be worth joining the Facebook group if you can. There is also a Facebook group for the Swedish version I think.
In South Africa a theorbo would cost the same as a Suzuki Swift then. Then cost the same to get it here from Europe. So a music teacher would have to save for about 5 years to get one. Maybe it would be faster to get some millionaire to donate some theorboes for hire then...
There are cheaper ones which are lower quality, also sometimes second hand. I can't imagine that it would cost several thousand pounds to post an instrument? If so cheaper to buy a return plane ticket and fetch it. But yes, an expensive thing to get into to be sure.