NEVER liked Shaw. Because he didn't respect Seven's choice of name. I don't care if you have PTSD from something, Seven had nothing to do with it and she's more than proven herself. He didn't have the right to force her to use her human name rather than her PREFERRED one. Raynor though, I do like him.
As an archaeologist, I am really impressed by Burnham saying that they had to respect the historical site especially as it is a holy place. Also not blowing up the stele to cover up the poem to preserve the site. This is straight out of current practice and really makes me love the federation more as they respect cultures of the past as well as the present
I get it but if they did the season would be over. Removing the rock or destroying it would mean the thiefs would not know where to go next. Well, they could track Discovery somehow and catchback up.
Me too! I'm an archaeologist and a historic preservationist and I loved Burnham for respecting the site, and even getting the drones to fix the scorch marks at the end
Maybe, but if you’re worried about preserving the site, that ship’s already sailed considering that it’s already covered in Romulan graffiti and then blasted halfway to hell and back. Also, they’d only need to get rid of the fifth line of the poem since Lock and Load (or whatever Star Trek Bonnie and Clyde’s names are) already have the first 4. You know, the part that was scratched into the part of the floor that the statue covered up? Im not an archaeologist, but I’m skeptical about how much history value a 1 x 2 foot section of plain, unadorned stone floor that the creators didn’t care about people seeing could have. It’s not like they were nuking the entire site. This is the equivalent of a Cold War era scientist leaving the coordinates and access codes to an unmanned nuclear silo that the USSR/Russia forgot about on a dinner plate from Pompeii. You find this plate, know that terrorists are actively looking for these coordinates and codes but decide to leave the plate where you found it to “preserve the historical site,” and then proceed to leave the site completely unguarded, knowing that the bad guys will eventually show back up. High-minded ideals don’t mean squat if you lack common sense.
Thank you Trek Culture. Ups and Downs is one of the best fan-additions to my weekly Trek viewing experience! The day after every episode, I know there will be another 30ish minutes of Trek entertainment!
LOL my friend said the same thing holy cow. She also said she knew that Rainer was the same actor from BSG, and wondered if he was a Cylon/Borg and at first I laughed - then I thought, oh, wait they could do that in a future based Trek show :D
Saru's. "Don't touch the kelp when in bloom!", keeps coming up every season. I'm thinking one of the villians will board Discovery and discover what happens when it's touched.
Massive amount of heavy lifting in a short time frame from you all. Massive appreciation! Completely agree this was a well done episode. IMO, it’s refreshing that the show has (somewhat) taken the focus off of Michael, and focused more on the story at large. Great action, intriguing storyline, and brilliant filming. I love the tie-ins to historical characters and can’t wait to watch the upcoming episodes!
As a kid I was interested In next generation because I liked space travel and how the future could look like. But I used only watch a few episodes when they were on sky. So I'm a casual fan iv seen Tng movies and the JJ movies But discovery is the first trek iv watching and really loving the trek world. But if I hadn't trek culture I'd be lost. So as a casual trek man. I love your ups and downs vids and I agree with alot in what your saying. Iv seen strange new worlds and I love it. Because star trek the original was in the 60s iv not seen any of them. So strange new worlds is me finding out who Pike and Spock are and I love it. So if Pike leaves I'd love to see a contentious story with Kirk at the helm. Also Picard was 3 seasons long and I never saw Voyager so I'd love to see 7 of 9 on our screens as she is a cool character. So yeah I'm a 40 year old trek virgin loving 21st century trek. And thanks for helping me understand all of it.
So far Raynor is my favorite thing about S5. He is such a fascinating character to explore, someone who cares about the Federation and Starfleet, but is a warrior from a time when there was not peace, where the enemy was everywhere. He has shades of early Burnham and Lorca. Cannot wait to see how he develops further with the Disco team.
Absolutely with your read that he's Burnham's karmic payback for being such an impulsive wrecking ball with good intentions but no impulse control. Season one Burnham just wouldn't have been able to see Rayner - or be open to being his second chance.
I think seeing Liam Shaw and the dislike we all had for him at first is what made me give this guy a chance. I liked him from almost the outset. It's going to be a fun season.
@@Heymrk True - and I think it helps that both characters are total assholes, but you get that it's not coming from an "insert antagonist here" story token place, if that makes any sense. Shaw is carrying every bit as much Borg-related trauma as Admiral Picard and he's even worse at dealing with it. Everyone is still struggling with the end of The Burn and whatever the restored Federation will be - just few are as hardcore about it as Rayner. The way they behave makes sense enough for them to be engaging and interesting assholes.
"Action Saru" reminds me of the interview by Terry Farrel talking about finding and solidifying Jadzia's character in season 2 of DS9 and one of the producers described it as "Action Barbie" , living multiple lives, infinite skills and memories but still youthful, fun, playful and looking gorgeous while doing it.
I actually didn't see Rainer becoming number one and when I finally did I thought he was going to be put on the ship by Vance and then they'd be this whole animosity between him and Burnham but I was very happy that this that didn't happen
Loved the picture from Due South. Excellent series, and my first experience of Callum Keith Rennie. Also, Cleveland Booker IV was not from Kwejian, he was a courier with a trusted name which was bequeathed to Book.
I swear the symbol shown in the intro titles and seen in the journal is Iconian! No one else seems to be mentioning that on the various fan review channels. I’m talking about a circular symbol filled with lines and arcs, which was seen on a spherical console on Iconia in TNG: Contagion in their season two.
These first two episodes of this season were easily the best episodes of this whole series. I just hope the rest of the season can keep up this level of acting and storytelling
Just realised that Rainer played a cylon in the new version of BSG, I hope that they have de-networked the main computer or Zora's firewalls are secure.
Calum Keith Rennie seems to have shown up at some point in pretty much every TV show produced in Canada over the last twenty five years or so. He's as busy as he is talented.
I'm just surprised that anyone remembered that Due South was a thing (yes, there was a show where CKR played second fiddle to a Canadian Mountie back in the 90s)
The audience knowing it was Rainer to be first officer was not a down, it was another plus! It was well played and we got to see it unfold beautifully! Sometimes the audience gets to be one step ahead! It was very satisfying!👍🖖
I put two and two together pretty quick. Knowing she was needing and looking for a new first officer, the moment we heard Raynor was forced to retire, I was thinking he would be offered the job. It's a demotion, but it's still flying!
Every trope that signalled Saru was about to die went off hard. All those obvious last conversations, the heroic run to draw fire, IT WAS EVEN HIS LAST DAY. I was honestly convinced he was going to bite it there.
She has changed SO much from Season 1 Burnham. I really do like her character arc and growth, but sadly it'll never be enough for the people who hate Discovery.
@@LordLOC That was the first thing I said after watching the first episode. Michael, and honestly the whole Discovery crew is so much more confident and competent as Star Fleet Officers this season even compared to S4. Even her confrontation with Dr. Covitch in episode 1 was handled in my opinion very well.
@@LordLOC hi I'm one of those people that hate discovery, but love star trek so much I still watch every episode of discovery searching for something to like. I have been hesitant to even engage with season 5. Oddly, of all the seasons, I enjoyed the first season the most, literally up until the last episode. With additional seasons upsetting me more as it focused more and more on emotion/drama takes me out of the scenes. Season 4 was initially a marked improvement imo given the more scientific storyline, but it's focus on emotion again threw me off. My preference is for more militaristic storylines which focus on the seriousness of exploration, it's risks and the geopolitics of the federation, rather than a more drama focused story which explores emotional wellness topics. Nothing wrong with this, just not what I watch TV for. Would you say this season is worth it for someone like me?
@@DrG65199 I mean it's only two episodes in, and being it's a sequel/tie in directly into a TNG episode I think it could be quite good but again it's only the first two episodes so far. Kind of hard to say. They said they were going to go for a big "Indiana Jones" type adventure this season with some big surprises and things like that but it's Discovery, they are usually a very emotionally driven show. Which I find fine, except when the main characters are hysterically crying every other scene, which does get annoying. I doubt very much there's going to be any militaristic anything, other than lots of action with pew pews everywhere.
Love your review and analysis of this episode. I was going to wait until the end of the series before I watch these analysis because I frankly didn’t want to read the hate comments DISCO get. So I am going to enjoy the final season of Discovery by not reading any comments on here. Keep up the great work.
I want Season 5 to be so awesome, that the executive who made the final decision to kill the show is glared at by the shareholders every time they enter the board room.
They're very clearly writing Raynor that way due to the love that Lorca and Shaw get. Not complaining, I love a grumpy mofo in such a sterile and lovey dovey version of the future.
So far the first two episodes are Raiders of the Lost Jumamjalorian on Mos Eimbus III meets Star Trek Pickovery, Season 5, Romancing the Infinity Puzzle. And I'm totally in!
It was only when Burnham and Saru were discussing second chances and that she needed someone strong and stubborn as a first officer that I realised it would be Rayner.
I like their attention to detail. The Clean Up crew detail is superb. The Lower Decks gets in on the fun, off-screen. I wonder how that went on a hostile planet? Then, they make sure the plasma blasts are gone in case the two vultures come back for the 5th stanza, plus those overcharged phasers have to be recovered before they leave the planet. Federation tech and all. I hope this season doesn't turn into a tired old treasure hunt.
Loving it so far. Has anyone else felt like the commercials are getting out of hand on here? When I watch this one, there were more commercials in a half hour show than on broadcast tv. Love you guys and the work you do.
Saru's advice about choosing a first officer is very reminiscent of Picard's explanation for choosing Riker in "The Pegasus". Not only does he recount the incident with Captain DeSoto that was first told all the way back in "Encounter at Farpoint" but Picard also says "I wanted someone who would stand up to me." Hell, you can go back even further to the first Trek movie, when Kirk starts to reprimand Decker on the bridge for disagreeing with him and Decker interrupts with "Sir, as your exec, it's my duty to point out alternatives" and Kirk halts in mid-reprimand and says "Yes it is, I stand corrected." So Saru's sentiment has got serious pedigree!
These 2 episodes were, in my humble opinion, were GREAT. The way I watch is being a 100% fan with my bag of popcorn🙂. I can't be a critic, it takes all the fun out of it. I will leave that job for you and your great staff, you all really do such a fine job.
Oh, thanks! I usually enjoy the episodes and then think maybe I'm not critical enough when they point out the downs. From now on, I'll take the "popcorn fan" path.
Rayner had to of been part of the Starfleet Marine Corps. He bleeds the Core Values Honor Courage Commitment He is the Starfleet Officer that we've been needing
Surprised there was not more about the similarity to the Arsenal of Freedom in the breakdown. Regarding Taynor I can't help but think that it's almost like Patamount is saying, "we recognize a missed potential in continuing the Jellico narrative because TNG was not as serialized as DS9 and on. So, here, take Raynor."
I appreciated Rayner's comment that "they don't make 'em like that anymore", but as a student of history it inevitably reminded me once again of how bizarre it is for this vessel to jump 931 years into the future, get some feature upgrades, and be right back out there in service... "spore drive" notwithstanding... with a crew that's behind on more than 9 centuries of historical and technological developments, and can still interact and be more or less on the same page culturally as people that far in their future. It would be as if a wooden viking longship, even one with the most advanced square sail and a crew of elite oarsmen, from the year 1093 sailed through a time portal into a present day Norwegian naval shipyard... and they simply polish it up, give it a few upgrades, and send it right back out there as part of the Norwegian navy... with the same crew, who are all unfailingly capable of very quickly advancing their mindset, lifestyle, understanding of technology, and cultural outlook (not to mention language skills) from the 11th century to the 21st century, with little issue. 😂🤣
It's interesting that Discovery arrived in the 32nd Cen with unique (Lost) technology, and an antiquated overall design. However, she was a fairly new ship at the time of her jump, so would be in far better shape than an old Crossfireld hull that had been laying about for 900 years! I am buying into the possibility of an extensive refit and fit for service.
They state that Moll is human, and she lacks other markers and features of Book's people. Nothing was said that the previous Booker wasn't human, so I think that's notable. By family, he mean "found family."
I get major Liam Shaw vibes from Rayner, as he’s definitely the sort of grizzled, no-nonsense, sometime asshole/ally officer. I’m glad you picked up on the “Arsenal of Freedom” vibes on the planet in this episode. With both the end of last episode and the start of this episode, I keep thinking Discovery being in the Archer Spacedock for cleaning is like she’s in an outer-space car-wash!😂 In addition to what you said about Saru’s enhanced eyesight making a return, I love that they brought back the fact he can run really fast! We haven’t seen that since that Season 1 episode where he went nuts on the planet Pahvo. Finally, I could be wrong but I do believe I spotted the Discovery’s FINALLY shut the Shuttle/Cargo Bay door in this episode, before spore-jumping away from Federation HQ.😱🤣👏
A suggestion if you advise viewers to skip ahead so they avoid certain spoilers, I would suggest putting chapter markers in your video descriptions. People who watch Trek Culture on the RUclips TV app, don’t have granular control over fast forward or rewind, the app only does 10 second increments, chapter markers would make this easier in my view
This season is really getting off to an awesome start. I think this show will be extremely well regarded in about 10-15 years. I remember all of the haters of Enterprise back in the day, and you're seeing the same shit again. I'm nostalgic for TNG as well, but TNG part 2 would be the death of Star Trek. This show is much less campy and much more adult/serious... and I like it.
These last seasons will be respected. The first was, is and will probably remain a massive mistep and an example of how easily a fanbase can be alienated. I'm just delighted that Trek listened, adapted and found a way to get most people on board.
Yes but Booker needs to go, it's weird always bringing a non Star Fleet criminal around. He is the only one with any info on the underhanded side of the universe?!? It feels horribly unimaginative. Either make him a member of the crew or ditch him, same with Tilley. The problem is they already have too many under utilized characters. Sadly in 5 season we don't really get to know them when the show introduces another new crew member and struggles to find something for them to do.
I am perhaps a ittle surprised at Burnham and Saru's instant familiarity with Romulan poetry, given that in the time period they are from, no one has ever even SEEN a Romulan, never mind had a chance to study their culture to any great extent. Also nice that "Jolan Tru" translates as "Welcome, traveller"
Quick note on the almost Down surrounding Book knowing Moll: I think you’re forgetting two things from earlier. In the 3rd Season Book mentioned his mentor who taught him to become a courier and how such a clearly human name gets handed down. So it’s not his Quashawni (sp?) mentor but his courier mentor. Also, she definitely cannot be from Quashawn as they identified her as a human in episode 1.
Enjoying the new season so far. The first episode, with the setting and music choices, gave me a very Star Wars vibe. Overall, I’m looking forward to the surprises that this treasure hunt season will bring. A little Star Trek, Star Wars, Indiana Jones, National Treasure, Jumanji, etc.
I loved this episode, I am so excited for where the season goes. It has been so much fun so far, and I love to see the followup of a great TNG episode.
I guess episode 8 will find them at the Founders homeworld in the Gamma Quadrant near the Omarion nebula? How are two thieves crossing that distance without a spore drive?
I’m noticing that there’s a very Old Trek vibe this season. From Raynor’s “people problem” to Michael and Saru’s “you have and always will be my friend” moment in the jungle, there’s more a focus on humanism over science-y whiz-bang situations
The episode was interesting, with Rayner helping Adira and Tilly. That giant head opening its eyes almost gave me a heart attack. And how can we not mention Action Saru? Reno leaving a mark even without appearing... Please address the issue of Europeans who have SkyShowtime, during the premiere of the fifth season of discovery they have only uploaded one episode to the platform, which will mean that we see the series a week late.
Raynor...this is almost a setup for Riker's story again, but a slightly different dynamic. EX: Picard: I wanted someone who'll stand up to me." Picard said to Admiral Pressman in the episode Pegasus. Their story setup kinda speaks to a "Will Riker" first officer type. But also a blending with what Chakotay could have been had Voyager been written better in respect to the conflict between him and Janeway.
I'm loving this season of Discovery, but it also gives me a bitter-sweet feeling because this is its last one. I'm already missing it. 😭-> So, now is the moment to savour all we can of the series! Some subtle points I noticed in this episode: 1) Michael was looking at the Progenitor image, and moments after Saru arrived the photography was great on showing just Michael focused, the other two characters unfocused, making all three much aesthetically similar. This is a UP for me! 2) Perhaps Tilly will discover or reveal having a degree of autism, which would embrace more inclusiveness and diversity. Could be, or I just saw several coincidences in what we saw as jokes or funny scenes. Also, we are in World Autism Awareness Month, and Discovery is beautifully inclusive. Let's see. Please, who are the two guys just before the Cetacean Observations?
You know what would be cool since they are revisiting a TNG story line for this season if they could put a bow on on of voyagers old stories "Living Witness". It would be cool to see the Doctor roll up to Starfleet toward the end of Discovery.
A down I had was the programmable matter phasers. The first time was fine, then they blew them up and got new ones? How many can they create? Can they just create any number of any type of weapons they want?
I do have a question about Rainer, since he’s going be the first officer of discovery but whose going the captain of his old ship and will that captain help discovery if and when they come a calling ? Captain Rainer is very much an old sea dog and he said as much when he said they don’t make them( discovery) like that anymore. It kinda reminds me of how Scotty felt when he finds himself in the 24th century.
The multi-eyed statues definitely give me Iconian vibes, however in Star Trek Online they were shown to have 6-eyes... perhaps the Promellians worshiped the Iconians but got the number of eyes wrong. I felt Rayner got the wrong end of the stick, after his years of service he gets to be Burnham's No. 1, what a demotion. As for Saru, the Ambassador role is good for him, but him remaining a Captain and being given a ship, possibly the latest design to rollout of Spacedock would've been cool, we could've had him swoop in, in the season finale episode to save the day.
Saru and Burnham served together aboard the USS Shenzhou, so they have served together for quite a while before Discovery. I think Saru admired Burnham before the Battle of the Binary Stars a little, but lost whatever respect he had for her when she mutinied, and now their relationship has been repaired beyond whatever relationship they had when they served on the USS Shenzhou.
Re: the small universe concerns…I’ve come to not be bothered by these things. As I get older I’ve come to recognize that our lives are a long chain of one-in-a-billion coincidences. Imagine the people we meet-or never meet-only because on one particular day we took a different seat on the bus only because our usual seat was wet only because the last person’s bag of frozen groceries was there only because they had to shop a day early only because the compressor in their freezer went out only because a worker in an assembly line misplaced one o-ring only because their coworker distracted them with a joke only because it was clear they were having a bad day only because their cat was sick only because it ate a venomous spider that only got in the house because a window screen was broken only because a bird tried to fly through it only because it caught a glint reflected off a half-empty glass of water left on the windowsill only because a delivery interrupted its drinking only because the driver was two minutes earlier than they would’ve been because when the stoplight turned yellow they sped up instead of stopping….but only because the driver’s young son recently made a joke about their driving habits, and on and on and on. I ran into my eighth-grade bully while working corrections in a part of the state neither of us grew up in. A friend was in a fender bender IN ANOTHER COUNTRY and the other driver turned out to be a teacher we’d had in high school. The truth is our universe is absurdly big, but in a million ways every day it is very, very small. We’re just so used to these “impossible coincidences” we barely notice when it’s happening to us.
Lieutenant Commander and Commander are different, and any navy man would tear you to pieces for making the mistake. They’re REFERRED to as Commander, but there’s a definite rank distinction.
@Whatwhatwhat1135 Crusher was full commander for a while (not at season 1, yet, still a black pip and two gold on the collar). And Diana did the test and got promoted too, in the final season
@@MarcioHuser Yup, Crusher, Troi, and Riker were all full commanders in season 7 of TNG. Discovery suffers from the same "I don't want to get promoted away from my friends" syndrome, but at least it's more understandable in the case of Discovery's crew. There's bound to be a heck of a cultural difference between 32nd century people and 23nd century people. Even the things you'd assume are universal among people in Starfleet like zeal for exploration have been shown onscreen to be different between the two time periods. That has to be a tough adjustment for the crew to make, so it makes sense that many of them would want to stay together at least for a year or 3 while they adapted, and why Starfleet would give them special dispensation to do that.
THANK YOU! Thank you for giving us the "due South" image of Callum Keith Rennie. I loved him in "Battlestar Galactica" but first found him in "due South". 😊😉
Something that really pulled me out of this episode was the president being on the tribunal for Captain Rayner’s disciplinary hearing. However classified the mission, why would she be there? It’s not like the US President or the UK Prime Minister would be on the tribunal for a special forces colonel or captain.
A fair point... but it also forces the question of "Does the 31st century version of Starfleet even have enough Admirals or Commodores to convene a disciplinary hearing?" We only ever see Admiral Vance interacting with ship captains like Burnham and Rayner... even though he's the Commander-in-Chief of Starfleet and should have SOME lower-ranking flag officers as his deputies to handle a lot of the stuff we see him do. So I wonder if President Rillik got roped into the hearing because, on top of the diplomatic mes that the mission to Q'Mahl (sp?) caused, there were not enough senior officers to hold a hearing for an officer of Rayner's seniority.
The one thing that confused me about the Progenitors is that their skin is not a dark color. It's a basic fact that light skin can only come from an ancestor who has more melanin, that is darker skin. One cannot derive dark skin from light skin.
All the trailer speculation and not a mention the fourth and fifth episodes are called Face the Strange and Mirrors?! As soon as the episode titles were released last year I would have put money on a crossover!
RE ISS Enterprise, I DON'T think it's either time travel or crossing over to the mirror. My guess would be something like the ship is (deliberately or accidentally) phasing into this universe (the reverse of what happened to Defiant) and in the process got snared in some sort of ...stasis, for lack of a better word ...phenomena and is just there frozen in amber for the centuries since (or potentially displaced in time so that the crossover from their side lands them a thousand years in the future and that the crew all die from the thing that Georgiou was dealing with.
Rayner may be my 2nd favorite character ever on Discovery (granted, I am not a huge fan of the show but he is definitely bring some fresh life into it)
I really like Raynor. He's giving me Captain Shaw vibes. 🙂
My thoughts EXACTLY!!
NEVER liked Shaw. Because he didn't respect Seven's choice of name.
I don't care if you have PTSD from something, Seven had nothing to do with it and she's more than proven herself. He didn't have the right to force her to use her human name rather than her PREFERRED one.
Raynor though, I do like him.
He’s the Lorca we deserve.
I am loving the new character 😁
Agreed
As an archaeologist, I am really impressed by Burnham saying that they had to respect the historical site especially as it is a holy place. Also not blowing up the stele to cover up the poem to preserve the site. This is straight out of current practice and really makes me love the federation more as they respect cultures of the past as well as the present
I get it but if they did the season would be over. Removing the rock or destroying it would mean the thiefs would not know where to go next. Well, they could track Discovery somehow and catchback up.
Me too! I'm an archaeologist and a historic preservationist and I loved Burnham for respecting the site, and even getting the drones to fix the scorch marks at the end
True
Maybe, but if you’re worried about preserving the site, that ship’s already sailed considering that it’s already covered in Romulan graffiti and then blasted halfway to hell and back. Also, they’d only need to get rid of the fifth line of the poem since Lock and Load (or whatever Star Trek Bonnie and Clyde’s names are) already have the first 4. You know, the part that was scratched into the part of the floor that the statue covered up? Im not an archaeologist, but I’m skeptical about how much history value a 1 x 2 foot section of plain, unadorned stone floor that the creators didn’t care about people seeing could have. It’s not like they were nuking the entire site. This is the equivalent of a Cold War era scientist leaving the coordinates and access codes to an unmanned nuclear silo that the USSR/Russia forgot about on a dinner plate from Pompeii. You find this plate, know that terrorists are actively looking for these coordinates and codes but decide to leave the plate where you found it to “preserve the historical site,” and then proceed to leave the site completely unguarded, knowing that the bad guys will eventually show back up. High-minded ideals don’t mean squat if you lack common sense.
Thank you Trek Culture. Ups and Downs is one of the best fan-additions to my weekly Trek viewing experience! The day after every episode, I know there will be another 30ish minutes of Trek entertainment!
Rainer, looks like Daniel Craig with Spock's ears! Guess we'll get a lot of 007 action LOL
Dude! For real, now I can never unsee it 😂
😂😂 My wife said the same thing!
LOL my friend said the same thing holy cow. She also said she knew that Rainer was the same actor from BSG, and wondered if he was a Cylon/Borg and at first I laughed - then I thought, oh, wait they could do that in a future based Trek show :D
In the German Version they used the same speaker
Yeah I came to say exactly the same thing
Saru's. "Don't touch the kelp when in bloom!", keeps coming up every season. I'm thinking one of the villians will board Discovery and discover what happens when it's touched.
I thought that too. I was also wondering if that radio controlled holographic mouse would be used as a distraction later on as well.😂😂😂
Massive amount of heavy lifting in a short time frame from you all. Massive appreciation! Completely agree this was a well done episode. IMO, it’s refreshing that the show has (somewhat) taken the focus off of Michael, and focused more on the story at large. Great action, intriguing storyline, and brilliant filming. I love the tie-ins to historical characters and can’t wait to watch the upcoming episodes!
As a kid I was interested In next generation because I liked space travel and how the future could look like. But I used only watch a few episodes when they were on sky. So I'm a casual fan iv seen Tng movies and the JJ movies
But discovery is the first trek iv watching and really loving the trek world. But if I hadn't trek culture I'd be lost. So as a casual trek man. I love your ups and downs vids and I agree with alot in what your saying. Iv seen strange new worlds and I love it. Because star trek the original was in the 60s iv not seen any of them. So strange new worlds is me finding out who Pike and Spock are and I love it. So if Pike leaves I'd love to see a contentious story with Kirk at the helm. Also Picard was 3 seasons long and I never saw Voyager so I'd love to see 7 of 9 on our screens as she is a cool character. So yeah I'm a 40 year old trek virgin loving 21st century trek. And thanks for helping me understand all of it.
So far Raynor is my favorite thing about S5. He is such a fascinating character to explore, someone who cares about the Federation and Starfleet, but is a warrior from a time when there was not peace, where the enemy was everywhere. He has shades of early Burnham and Lorca. Cannot wait to see how he develops further with the Disco team.
Absolutely with your read that he's Burnham's karmic payback for being such an impulsive wrecking ball with good intentions but no impulse control. Season one Burnham just wouldn't have been able to see Rayner - or be open to being his second chance.
I think seeing Liam Shaw and the dislike we all had for him at first is what made me give this guy a chance. I liked him from almost the outset. It's going to be a fun season.
@@Heymrk True - and I think it helps that both characters are total assholes, but you get that it's not coming from an "insert antagonist here" story token place, if that makes any sense. Shaw is carrying every bit as much Borg-related trauma as Admiral Picard and he's even worse at dealing with it. Everyone is still struggling with the end of The Burn and whatever the restored Federation will be - just few are as hardcore about it as Rayner. The way they behave makes sense enough for them to be engaging and interesting assholes.
Yes he has shades of several different overused character tropes
I was pleasantly surprised by the Rainer appointment. But then I wasn't thinking ahead at that point.
"Action Saru" reminds me of the interview by Terry Farrel talking about finding and solidifying Jadzia's character in season 2 of DS9 and one of the producers described it as "Action Barbie" , living multiple lives, infinite skills and memories but still youthful, fun, playful and looking gorgeous while doing it.
Action Barbie was coined by LeVar Burton while directing season 4 episode "To the Death"
I actually didn't see Rainer becoming number one and when I finally did I thought he was going to be put on the ship by Vance and then they'd be this whole animosity between him and Burnham but I was very happy that this that didn't happen
Loved the picture from Due South. Excellent series, and my first experience of Callum Keith Rennie. Also, Cleveland Booker IV was not from Kwejian, he was a courier with a trusted name which was bequeathed to Book.
I swear the symbol shown in the intro titles and seen in the journal is Iconian! No one else seems to be mentioning that on the various fan review channels. I’m talking about a circular symbol filled with lines and arcs, which was seen on a spherical console on Iconia in TNG: Contagion in their season two.
I loved how right before you went to Cetacean Observations you showed a picture of Callum Keith Rennie from Due South. As a Canadian I enjoyed that
I love that show. Thank you kindly!
Stanley Raymond Kowalski!
The debriefing/tribunal scene really set up Rayner and Burnham's relationship and mutual respect well
Up up up for your shirt!!! ❤❤❤ Jadzia Dax. OG icon
Saru saying he'll following Michael's lead is a lovely "quiet" moment showing how much theyve grown since season 1
These first two episodes of this season were easily the best episodes of this whole series. I just hope the rest of the season can keep up this level of acting and storytelling
Just realised that Rainer played a cylon in the new version of BSG, I hope that they have de-networked the main computer or Zora's firewalls are secure.
So say we all!
Calum Keith Rennie seems to have shown up at some point in pretty much every TV show produced in Canada over the last twenty five years or so. He's as busy as he is talented.
And an excellent character in Californication
I'm just surprised that anyone remembered that Due South was a thing (yes, there was a show where CKR played second fiddle to a Canadian Mountie back in the 90s)
@@KingOfDomaI watched Due South when it was on CBS.
But I admit I never made the connection between the two.
The audience knowing it was Rainer to be first officer was not a down, it was another plus! It was well played and we got to see it unfold beautifully! Sometimes the audience gets to be one step ahead! It was very satisfying!👍🖖
Exactly my thoughts!! The set-up and pay-off were executed very well imo!
It's still wild to me that Starfleet away teams don't have personal shields for the inevitable shootouts.
24:44 I didn’t twig on to the fact that he was coming to be number one until the scene where they were talking about it.
In regards to your down regarding Raynor. I didn't see him being first officer coming at all. Was thinking he might go rogue instead.
I put two and two together pretty quick. Knowing she was needing and looking for a new first officer, the moment we heard Raynor was forced to retire, I was thinking he would be offered the job. It's a demotion, but it's still flying!
Can confirm. Wilson Cruz gives amazing hugs. So does Doug Jones. Go get one, Sean.
Just wanted to thank you for your last words. And your Tshirt.
Every trope that signalled Saru was about to die went off hard. All those obvious last conversations, the heroic run to draw fire, IT WAS EVEN HIS LAST DAY.
I was honestly convinced he was going to bite it there.
Loved how Rayner accepted appointment to First Officer by simply zipping his jacket. Just a perfect moment.
Me too
I was surprised in a good way when Burnham was serious about respecting the necropolis of an extinct race. Never expected to see that and i liked it.
She has changed SO much from Season 1 Burnham. I really do like her character arc and growth, but sadly it'll never be enough for the people who hate Discovery.
@@LordLOC That was the first thing I said after watching the first episode. Michael, and honestly the whole Discovery crew is so much more confident and competent as Star Fleet Officers this season even compared to S4. Even her confrontation with Dr. Covitch in episode 1 was handled in my opinion very well.
@@LordLOC hi
I'm one of those people that hate discovery, but love star trek so much I still watch every episode of discovery searching for something to like.
I have been hesitant to even engage with season 5. Oddly, of all the seasons, I enjoyed the first season the most, literally up until the last episode. With additional seasons upsetting me more as it focused more and more on emotion/drama takes me out of the scenes. Season 4 was initially a marked improvement imo given the more scientific storyline, but it's focus on emotion again threw me off. My preference is for more militaristic storylines which focus on the seriousness of exploration, it's risks and the geopolitics of the federation, rather than a more drama focused story which explores emotional wellness topics. Nothing wrong with this, just not what I watch TV for.
Would you say this season is worth it for someone like me?
@@DrG65199 I mean it's only two episodes in, and being it's a sequel/tie in directly into a TNG episode I think it could be quite good but again it's only the first two episodes so far. Kind of hard to say. They said they were going to go for a big "Indiana Jones" type adventure this season with some big surprises and things like that but it's Discovery, they are usually a very emotionally driven show. Which I find fine, except when the main characters are hysterically crying every other scene, which does get annoying. I doubt very much there's going to be any militaristic anything, other than lots of action with pew pews everywhere.
How did dust get on the hull when the shields were up when the ship impacted the ground?
There's that still of Fraser and Vecchio/Kowalsky from Due South, that's an Up from me, good on ya Trekculture 👍
Due South! Holy memory unlocked!
Love your review and analysis of this episode. I was going to wait until the end of the series before I watch these analysis because I frankly didn’t want to read the hate comments DISCO get. So I am going to enjoy the final season of Discovery by not reading any comments on here. Keep up the great work.
I want Season 5 to be so awesome, that the executive who made the final decision to kill the show is glared at by the shareholders every time they enter the board room.
From your mouth to the Prophet's ears!
This is the kind of storytelling I was hoping for when they jumped to the 32nd c.
They're very clearly writing Raynor that way due to the love that Lorca and Shaw get.
Not complaining, I love a grumpy mofo in such a sterile and lovey dovey version of the future.
Yes! 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🖖🖖
So far the first two episodes are Raiders of the Lost Jumamjalorian on Mos Eimbus III meets Star Trek Pickovery, Season 5, Romancing the Infinity Puzzle. And I'm totally in!
😁 I like your description. 🖖🏼
And National Treasure
It was only when Burnham and Saru were discussing second chances and that she needed someone strong and stubborn as a first officer that I realised it would be Rayner.
From knowing that Saru was leaving, I figured the moment Rayner was forced to retire that he would take the demotion to Burnham's first officer.
I like their attention to detail. The Clean Up crew detail is superb. The Lower Decks gets in on the fun, off-screen. I wonder how that went on a hostile planet? Then, they make sure the plasma blasts are gone in case the two vultures come back for the 5th stanza, plus those overcharged phasers have to be recovered before they leave the planet. Federation tech and all. I hope this season doesn't turn into a tired old treasure hunt.
Loving it so far. Has anyone else felt like the commercials are getting out of hand on here? When I watch this one, there were more commercials in a half hour show than on broadcast tv. Love you guys and the work you do.
I got one! They’re geared to the viewer, not the show!
@@catofthecastle1681 Most of the videos I watch has one or two commercials and some of those are hour long videos. I don't know....
Saru's advice about choosing a first officer is very reminiscent of Picard's explanation for choosing Riker in "The Pegasus". Not only does he recount the incident with Captain DeSoto that was first told all the way back in "Encounter at Farpoint" but Picard also says "I wanted someone who would stand up to me." Hell, you can go back even further to the first Trek movie, when Kirk starts to reprimand Decker on the bridge for disagreeing with him and Decker interrupts with "Sir, as your exec, it's my duty to point out alternatives" and Kirk halts in mid-reprimand and says "Yes it is, I stand corrected." So Saru's sentiment has got serious pedigree!
These 2 episodes were, in my humble opinion, were GREAT. The way I watch is being a 100% fan with my bag of popcorn🙂. I can't be a critic, it takes all the fun out of it. I will leave that job for you and your great staff, you all really do such a fine job.
Oh, thanks! I usually enjoy the episodes and then think maybe I'm not critical enough when they point out the downs. From now on, I'll take the "popcorn fan" path.
I will miss this show, i know its had ups and downs but its been a fun ride
I'm sad this is the last season. They are showing how great this show is and I can't get enough.
I freakin love that over 1000 years in the future we have dedicated holographic cat toys. 🖖😸
FINALLY here to watch this, as I'm am finally watching the final season!
Same here, better late than never! 😊
Rayner had to of been part of the Starfleet Marine Corps. He bleeds the Core Values
Honor
Courage
Commitment
He is the Starfleet Officer that we've been needing
Surprised there was not more about the similarity to the Arsenal of Freedom in the breakdown.
Regarding Taynor I can't help but think that it's almost like Patamount is saying, "we recognize a missed potential in continuing the Jellico narrative because TNG was not as serialized as DS9 and on. So, here, take Raynor."
Mal gives me Chiana (Farscape) vibes. Atleast in looks.
Rather
Thank you! I was beginning to think I must be imagining it.
I appreciated Rayner's comment that "they don't make 'em like that anymore", but as a student of history it inevitably reminded me once again of how bizarre it is for this vessel to jump 931 years into the future, get some feature upgrades, and be right back out there in service... "spore drive" notwithstanding... with a crew that's behind on more than 9 centuries of historical and technological developments, and can still interact and be more or less on the same page culturally as people that far in their future.
It would be as if a wooden viking longship, even one with the most advanced square sail and a crew of elite oarsmen, from the year 1093 sailed through a time portal into a present day Norwegian naval shipyard... and they simply polish it up, give it a few upgrades, and send it right back out there as part of the Norwegian navy... with the same crew, who are all unfailingly capable of very quickly advancing their mindset, lifestyle, understanding of technology, and cultural outlook (not to mention language skills) from the 11th century to the 21st century, with little issue. 😂🤣
It's interesting that Discovery arrived in the 32nd Cen with unique (Lost) technology, and an antiquated overall design. However, she was a fairly new ship at the time of her jump, so would be in far better shape than an old Crossfireld hull that had been laying about for 900 years! I am buying into the possibility of an extensive refit and fit for service.
They state that Moll is human, and she lacks other markers and features of Book's people. Nothing was said that the previous Booker wasn't human, so I think that's notable. By family, he mean "found family."
I get major Liam Shaw vibes from Rayner, as he’s definitely the sort of grizzled, no-nonsense, sometime asshole/ally officer. I’m glad you picked up on the “Arsenal of Freedom” vibes on the planet in this episode. With both the end of last episode and the start of this episode, I keep thinking Discovery being in the Archer Spacedock for cleaning is like she’s in an outer-space car-wash!😂 In addition to what you said about Saru’s enhanced eyesight making a return, I love that they brought back the fact he can run really fast! We haven’t seen that since that Season 1 episode where he went nuts on the planet Pahvo. Finally, I could be wrong but I do believe I spotted the Discovery’s FINALLY shut the Shuttle/Cargo Bay door in this episode, before spore-jumping away from Federation HQ.😱🤣👏
A suggestion if you advise viewers to skip ahead so they avoid certain spoilers, I would suggest putting chapter markers in your video descriptions. People who watch Trek Culture on the RUclips TV app, don’t have granular control over fast forward or rewind, the app only does 10 second increments, chapter markers would make this easier in my view
Disco having a 32nd century officer as XO makes sense, its something they should have done 2 seasons ago!
yey im the first! Happy First Contact day everyone. Sean its Great to have you back on the ups & downs. love it
Sorry I missed the live stream earlier today. Oh yes, this season is going all out
Love this episode as well
This season is really getting off to an awesome start. I think this show will be extremely well regarded in about 10-15 years. I remember all of the haters of Enterprise back in the day, and you're seeing the same shit again. I'm nostalgic for TNG as well, but TNG part 2 would be the death of Star Trek. This show is much less campy and much more adult/serious... and I like it.
These last seasons will be respected. The first was, is and will probably remain a massive mistep and an example of how easily a fanbase can be alienated. I'm just delighted that Trek listened, adapted and found a way to get most people on board.
Thank you so much for the trailer warning at the beginning, good job. I purposely didn't watch it. And you didn't ruin anything thank you so much
That nod to Due South made my heart happy 😊
Genuinely loving it so far... Really disappointed its the final season. Discovery deserved at least 1 or 2 more seasons
AGREED.
The scene just before they get shot at and Burnham says “no, nothing weird” then drones appear. Followed by “I changed my mind” was such an up from me
I feel like they slept on a lot of golden jokes in this episode. The unintentional pun by Saru followed by "Unless you found it to be humorous."
I like how discovery shake up things up by changing the command structure of the show.
Yes but Booker needs to go, it's weird always bringing a non Star Fleet criminal around. He is the only one with any info on the underhanded side of the universe?!?
It feels horribly unimaginative. Either make him a member of the crew or ditch him, same with Tilley. The problem is they already have too many under utilized characters. Sadly in 5 season we don't really get to know them when the show introduces another new crew member and struggles to find something for them to do.
I am perhaps a ittle surprised at Burnham and Saru's instant familiarity with Romulan poetry, given that in the time period they are from, no one has ever even SEEN a Romulan, never mind had a chance to study their culture to any great extent.
Also nice that "Jolan Tru" translates as "Welcome, traveller"
Quick note on the almost Down surrounding Book knowing Moll:
I think you’re forgetting two things from earlier. In the 3rd Season Book mentioned his mentor who taught him to become a courier and how such a clearly human name gets handed down. So it’s not his Quashawni (sp?) mentor but his courier mentor.
Also, she definitely cannot be from Quashawn as they identified her as a human in episode 1.
Enjoying the new season so far. The first episode, with the setting and music choices, gave me a very Star Wars vibe. Overall, I’m looking forward to the surprises that this treasure hunt season will bring. A little Star Trek, Star Wars, Indiana Jones, National Treasure, Jumanji, etc.
I need all the Sean Ferrick t-shirts. It’s been years, brother, and you keep impressing me with the wardrobe
Thank you, Chris, for great review and your positive thoughts!!
Season Five-so far, so good!
You do not know Trek.
I loved this episode, I am so excited for where the season goes. It has been so much fun so far, and I love to see the followup of a great TNG episode.
I guess episode 8 will find them at the Founders homeworld in the Gamma Quadrant near the Omarion nebula? How are two thieves crossing that distance without a spore drive?
I’m noticing that there’s a very Old Trek vibe this season. From Raynor’s “people problem” to Michael and Saru’s “you have and always will be my friend” moment in the jungle, there’s more a focus on humanism over science-y whiz-bang situations
The episode was interesting, with Rayner helping Adira and Tilly. That giant head opening its eyes almost gave me a heart attack. And how can we not mention Action Saru? Reno leaving a mark even without appearing...
Please address the issue of Europeans who have SkyShowtime, during the premiere of the fifth season of discovery they have only uploaded one episode to the platform, which will mean that we see the series a week late.
Raynor...this is almost a setup for Riker's story again, but a slightly different dynamic. EX: Picard: I wanted someone who'll stand up to me." Picard said to Admiral Pressman in the episode Pegasus. Their story setup kinda speaks to a "Will Riker" first officer type. But also a blending with what Chakotay could have been had Voyager been written better in respect to the conflict between him and Janeway.
16:28
A little preview of Raynor acting as Number ONE.
No mention of the mobile replicator as part of the away mission? Minute 30 when Burnham asks Saru if ready ??
I'm loving this season of Discovery, but it also gives me a bitter-sweet feeling because this is its last one. I'm already missing it. 😭-> So, now is the moment to savour all we can of the series!
Some subtle points I noticed in this episode:
1) Michael was looking at the Progenitor image, and moments after Saru arrived the photography was great on showing just Michael focused, the other two characters unfocused, making all three much aesthetically similar. This is a UP for me!
2) Perhaps Tilly will discover or reveal having a degree of autism, which would embrace more inclusiveness and diversity. Could be, or I just saw several coincidences in what we saw as jokes or funny scenes. Also, we are in World Autism Awareness Month, and Discovery is beautifully inclusive. Let's see.
Please, who are the two guys just before the Cetacean Observations?
In the French subtitles they put “kung fu saru” vs “action saru” and that has more of a ring to it :D
\
Love your last comment, this world of ours has gotten very frightening once again
For each Discovery episode, let's just start with 16 ups and call it a day. Sheesh.
You know what would be cool since they are revisiting a TNG story line for this season if they could put a bow on on of voyagers old stories "Living Witness". It would be cool to see the Doctor roll up to Starfleet toward the end of Discovery.
A down I had was the programmable matter phasers. The first time was fine, then they blew them up and got new ones? How many can they create? Can they just create any number of any type of weapons they want?
The circular symbol (at 21:02) looks vaguely like the orb on the Iconian portal device in TNG
I do have a question about Rainer, since he’s going be the first officer of discovery but whose going the captain of his old ship and will that captain help discovery if and when they come a calling ? Captain Rainer is very much an old sea dog and he said as much when he said they don’t make them( discovery) like that anymore. It kinda reminds me of how Scotty felt when he finds himself in the 24th century.
I'd say they would, out of respect for their old captain, if not for other members of the service in general.
Excellent episode 👏👏 agreed with you review (except the down). Like the new number one. Excited for the season
I think he missed the importance of the exchange between mull and book. She reacted to book identifying himself . This seemed important.
The multi-eyed statues definitely give me Iconian vibes, however in Star Trek Online they were shown to have 6-eyes... perhaps the Promellians worshiped the Iconians but got the number of eyes wrong. I felt Rayner got the wrong end of the stick, after his years of service he gets to be Burnham's No. 1, what a demotion. As for Saru, the Ambassador role is good for him, but him remaining a Captain and being given a ship, possibly the latest design to rollout of Spacedock would've been cool, we could've had him swoop in, in the season finale episode to save the day.
Thank you for the picture of Benton and Stanley from Season 3 of Due South!
Saru and Burnham served together aboard the USS Shenzhou, so they have served together for quite a while before Discovery. I think Saru admired Burnham before the Battle of the Binary Stars a little, but lost whatever respect he had for her when she mutinied, and now their relationship has been repaired beyond whatever relationship they had when they served on the USS Shenzhou.
Re: the small universe concerns…I’ve come to not be bothered by these things.
As I get older I’ve come to recognize that our lives are a long chain of one-in-a-billion coincidences. Imagine the people we meet-or never meet-only because on one particular day we took a different seat on the bus only because our usual seat was wet only because the last person’s bag of frozen groceries was there only because they had to shop a day early only because the compressor in their freezer went out only because a worker in an assembly line misplaced one o-ring only because their coworker distracted them with a joke only because it was clear they were having a bad day only because their cat was sick only because it ate a venomous spider that only got in the house because a window screen was broken only because a bird tried to fly through it only because it caught a glint reflected off a half-empty glass of water left on the windowsill only because a delivery interrupted its drinking only because the driver was two minutes earlier than they would’ve been because when the stoplight turned yellow they sped up instead of stopping….but only because the driver’s young son recently made a joke about their driving habits, and on and on and on.
I ran into my eighth-grade bully while working corrections in a part of the state neither of us grew up in. A friend was in a fender bender IN ANOTHER COUNTRY and the other driver turned out to be a teacher we’d had in high school.
The truth is our universe is absurdly big, but in a million ways every day it is very, very small. We’re just so used to these “impossible coincidences” we barely notice when it’s happening to us.
I didn’t think he’d be first officer, but that’s mostly because I’m always thrown off that almost everyone on the bridge is a commander…
TNG had a bunch of commanders on the bridge as well. Even troi was one
Lieutenant Commander and Commander are different, and any navy man would tear you to pieces for making the mistake. They’re REFERRED to as Commander, but there’s a definite rank distinction.
@Whatwhatwhat1135 Crusher was full commander for a while (not at season 1, yet, still a black pip and two gold on the collar). And Diana did the test and got promoted too, in the final season
@@MarcioHuser Yup, Crusher, Troi, and Riker were all full commanders in season 7 of TNG. Discovery suffers from the same "I don't want to get promoted away from my friends" syndrome, but at least it's more understandable in the case of Discovery's crew.
There's bound to be a heck of a cultural difference between 32nd century people and 23nd century people. Even the things you'd assume are universal among people in Starfleet like zeal for exploration have been shown onscreen to be different between the two time periods. That has to be a tough adjustment for the crew to make, so it makes sense that many of them would want to stay together at least for a year or 3 while they adapted, and why Starfleet would give them special dispensation to do that.
The OP was about the number of commanders on Discovery.
THANK YOU! Thank you for giving us the "due South" image of Callum Keith Rennie. I loved him in "Battlestar Galactica" but first found him in "due South". 😊😉
I'm loving the season so far. It's action packed and interesting. How it should have been in the beginning, without the redesigned klingons.
So happy to see Due South getting a little love.
Something that really pulled me out of this episode was the president being on the tribunal for Captain Rayner’s disciplinary hearing. However classified the mission, why would she be there? It’s not like the US President or the UK Prime Minister would be on the tribunal for a special forces colonel or captain.
A fair point... but it also forces the question of "Does the 31st century version of Starfleet even have enough Admirals or Commodores to convene a disciplinary hearing?" We only ever see Admiral Vance interacting with ship captains like Burnham and Rayner... even though he's the Commander-in-Chief of Starfleet and should have SOME lower-ranking flag officers as his deputies to handle a lot of the stuff we see him do.
So I wonder if President Rillik got roped into the hearing because, on top of the diplomatic mes that the mission to Q'Mahl (sp?) caused, there were not enough senior officers to hold a hearing for an officer of Rayner's seniority.
Also how did the EM pulse disrupt the defenses in the main pyramid but not in the standing statue?
The one thing that confused me about the Progenitors is that their skin is not a dark color. It's a basic fact that light skin can only come from an ancestor who has more melanin, that is darker skin. One cannot derive dark skin from light skin.
Great episode! Great video from you all too!
Thank you for the Due South graphic!!! Callum!!!
Okay... I really like this shirt too. I... have not been paying attention, I need to rewatch videos now just to look at your shirts.
this ep was the first time I've heard of this "action Saru" nickname.
All the trailer speculation and not a mention the fourth and fifth episodes are called Face the Strange and Mirrors?! As soon as the episode titles were released last year I would have put money on a crossover!
RE ISS Enterprise, I DON'T think it's either time travel or crossing over to the mirror. My guess would be something like the ship is (deliberately or accidentally) phasing into this universe (the reverse of what happened to Defiant) and in the process got snared in some sort of ...stasis, for lack of a better word ...phenomena and is just there frozen in amber for the centuries since (or potentially displaced in time so that the crossover from their side lands them a thousand years in the future and that the crew all die from the thing that Georgiou was dealing with.
Rayner may be my 2nd favorite character ever on Discovery (granted, I am not a huge fan of the show but he is definitely bring some fresh life into it)