Hi Richard, one of my suppliers was out in there new deliver lorry, they overtook another slower lorry on the m25, after being flashed in and travelling only a small distance after the overtake the lorry's brakes slammed on, the vehicle he had just overtaken slammed into the back of him, it was the safety system braking not him !!!
In an EV I would have turned the heating on as high as possible, everything electrical including seats and steering, open all windows to create drag and turn regenerative braking off, you would deplete the battery quick and slow down gradually.
Yeah then the intelligent system in the car would realise the battery is running down and do everything it can, with your consent or ability to stop it, to conserve the battery.
Last year I read about a chap driving a petrol car that suffered a total loss of electrical power. He was going up a steep hill and just rolled to a stop but was unable to apply the electronic handbrake. Gesturing madly through the closed power window he attracted the attention of a pedestrian who kindly went and found a large rock to put behind the tyre. I am sure that the electronic handbrake is about cost saving and not driver safety.
Electronic hand brakes are more expensive, I think it's more about keeping old people on the road who can't pull on the handbrake fully. Seen it a lot as a mechanic, saw what was happening ran away, never looked back. Statistically less younger generations are buying cars and they are passing their tests later.
Happened to me i had a Granada mk1 3.0l auto in the early eighties driving down the A1 in Durham about 5 in the morning i was doing 80 for quite come time started getting foggy and saw the ice build up on the aerial let foot off the pedal she still revving away had to switch of engine and brake but had to keep flipping the ignition on to control the steering! Managed to stop open the bonnet and throttle linkage had froze on the carb! Released it and away i went but a lot slower!
Please bring back handbrakes. One of my biggest bug bears. To move my 675LT I have to get in it, start it, put the seatbelt one, then I can move it, but i don't know if I have moved enough (this is on the drive), sometimes I have to repeat a few times. To move my MX5 I let off the handbrake, push it to exactly where I want it and job done. No need to get in, no need for seatbelts, no need to start it! And don't get me started on Porsche back to front, which way do I press it dash mounted button! The one that auto comes on and needs 11,000 rpm to make it disengage! every time you drive off. I have slowed cars on the handbrake many times, can be modulated and used in an emergency. Should be LAW that al cars have a proper handbrake. oh and leaving the handbrake off to let brakes cool or dry? Forget it, pad / disc lock all the bloomin time
Not just no brakes,the car accelerated on its own 90mph in heavy traffic. This is the second time it's happened on the same car, Geoff buys cars has done a telephone interview with the guy. He's lucky to be alive by the sound of it.
Psychological Operation Happened twice to same person? M60 has lots of bends that can’t be taken at over 120mph in the dry let alone raining. 5 Series Police BMW can do North 160mph No Police footage 03:00 in the morning
Electronics mean we are losing control and things are getting more dangerous, its as simple as that, I really dislike the features in new cars in the past 5 - 10 years, big screens, no handbrakes or emergency brakes in the USA. the loss of buttons and switches that are cheap to replace versus screens. Truly pathetic.
The only type of brake failure i can think of due to an electrical fault on an ipace would be total failure of the 12 volt system. This would prevent actuation of the handbrake and disable brake boost... But it would still be possible to apply the brakes but with greatly increased pedal force, and you would still have some boost for the first couple of presses. If the 12 volt failed that should also cause the electric motors to stop working, which doesnt fit the situation described. The only complication is the ipace has a weird split 12 volt system with two separate batteries, so i dont know if its possible for half of it to fail and cause loss of braking but retention of drive power?? Even so you woukd expect it to respond to release of throttle pedal. Its either a serious and systemic design fault that JLR should have known about at the design stage, or poor driver response to a genuine but not severe vehicle fault.
Something not quite right with this story I think. EVs still have hydraulic braking systems so while you may loose the 'servo' assistance you should still be able to apply the brakes as long as you have a strong right leg, unless of course it was a hydraulic system failure, but that can happen to any car. Maybe something with being unable or not knowing how to cut the traction from the motors.
This vehicle had been back to the dealership with faults several times in the last few months apparently. Sounds like the real problem hadn’t been identified each time it was returned to the owner.
Physical braking capable of overcoming the engine is a legal requirement. So you're not only talking about electrical failure in a manner that somehow forces the car to accelerate (very unlikely, given the number of redundancies required), but hydraulic and physical cabling failure simultaneously. Or the driver was out for a jolly, got caught and is using this as an excuse.
You can use an electric handbrake as an emergency brake by pulling it up and holding it up and it does bring you to an emergency stop. It was demonstrated to me when i was on a Landrover experience day many years ago. 😉
On a Tesla model s/x you can press and hold the parking brake button at the end of the drive stalk and it will engage the emergency parking brake. It would likely be a scary experience at high speed and even worse on damp roads but is an option at least. You can also knock it into neutral by a half shift of the same lever. I'm assuming it's the same for model y/3 but owners should check the in car manual
The electric handbrake still works on modern cars as I've tried it myself by accident! Seems odd the iPace's handbrake and hydraulic brakes both failed at the same time the electric engine couldn't be controlled.
Hi Richard, I had a Panamera with adaptive cruise control. Out of know where at 70mph my brakes slammed on! Turned out my satnav was a few years old and where there was a roundabout it had now been removed. My cruise control thought I was speeding into the previous roundabout and took evasive action. Very dangerous and unnerving!
Jeeez how terrifying not to be in control of the car you are driving. When accidents happen due to these 'safety systems' who is responsible? The driver? The manufacturer? The satnav makers? Scary stuff.
I followed an electric car and thought driver crazy brake lights on off like mad and asked someone who drives new stuff and he said when some electric car on regen charge automatically put brake lights on
I have a Tesla I do feel bad for anyone behind me as I can see constantly brake light when I don’t even use it as regen so strong ! People must think I’m nuts
I was driving down the A21 near Tonbridge on my way home via Matfield when I hit a stag on the road doing 65 MPH and my manual petrol car launched off it landed and I had no brakes after it landed and all I could do was steer to the side of the road and fortunately there was a bank I could slow down on. I only had an electric handbrake and push start button so this resonates with what happened to me a month ago. Scary stuff tbh
Why did you have no brakes, all cars have dual hydraulic systems so unless you lost the whole front end of the car at least brakes on two wheels should work plus the handbrake?
In the USA they call the hand brake the emergency brake. I also dont particularly like automatic gearboxes either. I have had cars where the brakes have failed, and limped them home judiciously just ising gears, engine and hanbrake (at night of course)
Kind of ironic that it’s no longer an emergency brake in modern cars. Maybe they should connect the button up to the emergency services to come out and help you stop .
In the US it’s called an E brake, an emergency brake in other words, a simple manual override, like on an aircraft, doors to manual, a big lever there to open the door in an emergency. The electronic parking brake is similar in my opinion to electronic door handles, technology going too far.
Brakes have been known to suffer brake failure but with an ICE, this can usually be overcome by easing off the throttle, dip the clutch or select neutral in an auto and if available use the handbrake, not these blooming stupid electric brakes. Automatic handbrakes fail often on ICEs.
The first time this happened to him, after many attempts he finely got it into neutral but still had no brakes, so the police car got him to a halt. This time he could not get the car to do this, and rammed the police car for about 20 miles until his battery ran out.
And in the i-pace brakes and steering are hydraulic and mechanical with electric assist. Accelerators in vast majority of modern engines are electronic not mechanical. This is safer, mechanical throttle cables do stick. Electronic throttles use a dual sensor system if either throttle position sensor disagrees with the other than the car will stop. The pedal itself can become stuck, but not the control system.
@@insanityideas The parking brake in the I-Pace, as common with many cars now, is electronic. If the brakes in the car in the story were hydraulic, how on earth were they inoperable due to a system fault? The idea that sensors and electronics are safer than a cable is something I can't agree with as an engineer. Of course, this wouldn't be nearly as much of an issue if cars still had an actual physical off button / ignition switch. Sure there's something you can push, but all it does is tell the car to do something, it does NOT simply turn it off.
@@system11yt the handbrake is electric. The gearbox also has a separate parking pawl engaged when park is selected on the gearbox. Not all EV implement a parking pawl in the gearboxes to mechanically lock the transmission, but Jaguar do. The footbrake is hydraulic with an electric boost pump. 2 separate braking systems using entirely different means of activation plus a transmission lock. Work exactly like every other JLR car and virtually every other car on the road. Personally I think the brakes on this car worked just fine and it was user error, or had a pre-existing severe fault unrelated to vehicle electronics (e.g. lack of brake fluid, missing brake pads etc). Only JLR will be able to find out, if they get the opportunity to investigate... As the car (and third party vehicles) was damaged it's now up to the insurance company if they turn it over to JLR for a proper answer.
This doesn't make any sense, if the brakes truly did not work why not put it in neutral or press the parking brake button. Electronic park brakes will try to apply the main brakes when at speed if they fail to work the actual parking brake will be applied.
Don't think this is just a handbrak issue I bet this is one of those cars where the actual foot brake is drive by wire so no actual physical connection between the foot pedal and the master cylinder. Just a sensor and wire to a motor that drives the piston. The thing is this is happening with more and more systems and the car companies are not asking if the consumer wants their brakes to be disconnected, doing this achieves nothing. Is not the first I pace to have this problem and it's not the first car. They have been talking about doing this with the steering too. Frightening.
I agree this could happen, I don’t mind them and the VAG ones and Land Rover have good analogue style display option. Some of them have a tiny screen or just a number for speed (VAG electric cars to name one) don’t like that one bit and takes me back to my mums old 2002 Citroen C3 which had something that resembled an old Casio watch type figure. Skoda also have some older proper Analogue dials that aren’t very well marked out for us in the Uk with very poor layout for MPH
Hi Richard, firstly great job in regards to JLR security, I received a call from your broker yesterday asked me about my RR then asked about a second car & house insurance didn’t even take any details advised me that if the second car wasn’t worth at least a 100k & the rebuild cost of my house wasn’t above 1.5million & contents wasn’t at least 100k they couldn’t even quote! Is this correct? It seems all RR owners are at the mercy of these insurance companies that’s if you can even get insured.
Could it being an electric car not have that regenerative braking so you could slow the car down by adjusting that to bring you to standstill with the accelerator pedal. I guess the ipace doesn’t have this feature.
Modern cars are too reliant on electronic systems. Many of them, despite apparently being for safety, actually make the vehicle difficult, or in some cases impossible to control in an emergency situation, and thus make the car unsafe. We need to get back to simply engineered cars with basic mechanical controls. The vast majority of these electronic 'driver aids' simply aren't necessary.
In answer to your question, it would never happen to me as: 1) I wouldn’t go near a JLR Product 2) I wouldn’t go near an EV 3) I wouldn’t go near a car that had an Electronic Parking Brake (they are not HAND brakes!)
If you fully charge an EV (100%) there is no regen braking, the driver is reliant on the normal brakes. The pedal push needed is therefore much harder, and can feel like brake failure to drivers who have always relied in servo assisted brakes. It was a frequent 'complaint' with early Nissan LEAFs. .Nothing wrong with the brakes, just driver panic. The hydraulic brakes , behind the electrics, are to the same standard as those on all other cars. You just need to push down on the pedal HARDER,
The correct term is 'Parking Brake' , it is designed for parking only. The 'Handbrake' on my old Humber Hawk would not pass the MOT Test (1971) even with rear wheel lock up. The foot brakes recorded over 90%. The modern standard is till quite low (25%?) whilst modern cars now require TWO braking systems up to the brake pad.
To be fair to the driver, phoning police and telling them the problem, waiting for them to arrive then being forcibly stopped, rather like 'Miracle on the Hudson'! - don't understand how they missed joining the World's longest car jam ( M25 ), first!
Hi Richard a friend of mine had a new jaguar i pace electric and it was at he’s work place the camera got it all the car just shot off at high speed with him with bum on seat feet on ground out the car it missed all the stuff around it went through trees and fence and he stopped it in a field JLR repaired it all free of charge and he never got told what it was that made it happen i ask him if he still got the video of it for you
@@Challengetheroad i sent him a message to contact you and i am playing golf with him end of month he’s got CCTV of it all from outside he’s warehouse it only just missed the big forklift 0 to 60 was quick it was new car about 2020/1
Sounds like the cruise control was engaged and couldn't be disarmed? Otherwise I don't understand why the driver just didn't lift foot off the loud pedal and coast to a halt by the roadside? For that amount of time to have passed to get the police involved, must have meant something more than just brakes involved, surely?
Morning I personally think some kind of a emergency hand break would definitely be a good idea for this kind of situation. I'm definitely staying with the old technology. Even more of a bad situation with the mild hybrid and full electric because their far more powerful.
yer would scare the life out of me but what i will say about the standard car electric button or lever for the handbrake is on the Discovery sport (mine is 2017) the lever just behind the automatic gear knob can be used as an emergency brake even by the passenger, was shown this at luton landrover off roading which i got curtsey of landrover when i bought the car the ex policeman who took me our off roading show me what my car would as well as this lever which i knew nothing about till he told me back in 2017. Got insurance on my discovery sport at £570 (Admiral) which was glad to get but my previous insurer wanted £995. so there seems to be maybe ok for the older vehicles/ drivers.
The driver must be very unlucky, for this to happen to him twice, once after passing a speed camera at 90mph! Even more unlucky to subsequently get arrested for dangerous driving! Wouldn't want his luck!?
There must be more to this story.. 90 mph on motorways, then having to call police, then having to wait for police.. And still haven't crashed 🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔. BTW and an electronic handbrake is 'still' a handbrake it's not a magic button haha
Geoff buys cars done like you a video and he said this is not the first time this has happened before with same car in oct 2023 .his mum posted on x that it was her sons car and this is terrifying her . Thereneeds to be a master kill switch to disengage drive on ev cars that get in this situation near Glasgow last year same thing happened to a guy in a mgz4 it was doing 30mph but it would not stop guy phonedpolice and when ths police boxed him in and stopped the car the owner got out a policeman jumped in and when the police van in front started to pull away the electric stzrted to follow and the police had to stop itas it still wanted to drive forward really scary that
Although I cannot comment on the Geoff incident, I would refer to the Glasgow incident - I live near the scene and have a very hard time believing the story. Picture a built up area with multiple sets of traffic lights located close to each other, a car showroom, shopping centre, crossroads and one clear lane on each side of the road. No way did this guy drive anywhere without hitting something or someone. I would be happy to be corrected in this so anyone out there please comment.
The answer is a dull one. Applying electric handbrake at speed results in a safe but mildly abrupt stop using just the rear wheels. No crazy skids. Nowhere near as fast a stop as the footbrake. Only concerning issue is it takes a few seconds before it engages (to stop accidental activation). But it applies more force than I can with a manual handbrake lever.
Amazing - at last somebody that may understand the issues I have had with EV vehicles... I am forced to drive them for work, over 250 miles per day - unfortunately. Twice I have had a complete power outage on the motorway at speed in a Renault Zoe... Freaked me out and the garage simply could not find out why, but it happened yet again, and in the right hand lane of the M5. My co-driver, in a Vauxhall EV, had a massive brake failure with the foot brake, and the handbrake just did not work either despite being told this was impossible.... There is something wrong here and the main dealers simply deny it.... I now get a bit edgy every time I go out in the EV.
cant stand electric handbrakes! They are added complexity, less functional (extreme turns haha). I think in the US they refer to them as emergency brakes, well that cant work if they wont engage when the car is moving.
Emergency Brakes here in the USA are usually a foot brake, sometimes a handbrake. I agree electric hand brake switches are crap, and hard to find sometimes, the last thing you want be looking for in a rental or fleet pool car when you have no brakes.
He's a fading, and none too bright, reality TV star from Big Brother that's fabricated the story to get in the headlines. Of the million EVs on the road this has to happen to a reality TV star. Get real. He managed his speed enough to not crash i.e. coming off the throttle, braking. Don't be so gullible, this is nothing more than attention seeking and will end up with him being arrested for dangerous driving. The whole stunt is already starting to backfire on him.
The i-pace has neutral on the gear selector. But gears in an electric car are implemented in software, so if there was a software fault it may not work. But chances of that software fault seems very slim. Park is implemented using a mechanical parking pawl like other automatic gearboxes. These will not engage (for mechanical reasons) whilst the car is moving at high speed, it probably also has a software lockout to avoid damage.
No it’s nothing to do with a handbrake Electric or manual !!! If an ICE car has issues manual or automatic gearboxes you have options to disable or disconnect from the engine so you can still slow down, however when fully electric the car has full control of the drivetrain !!! So if the cars computer modules have a glitch you’re basically screwed !!!!
Hi Richard, one of my suppliers was out in there new deliver lorry, they overtook another slower lorry on the m25, after being flashed in and travelling only a small distance after the overtake the lorry's brakes slammed on, the vehicle he had just overtaken slammed into the back of him, it was the safety system braking not him !!!
Yes, it is a common AEBS alert if surrounded by other objects close / off angle ahead to the front
In an EV I would have turned the heating on as high as possible, everything electrical including seats and steering, open all windows to create drag and turn regenerative braking off, you would deplete the battery quick and slow down gradually.
🤣 Very good
Heater would drain it in minutes going by my experience
Provided you had time
Yeah then the intelligent system in the car would realise the battery is running down and do everything it can, with your consent or ability to stop it, to conserve the battery.
Last year I read about a chap driving a petrol car that suffered a total loss of electrical power. He was going up a steep hill and just rolled to a stop but was unable to apply the electronic handbrake. Gesturing madly through the closed power window he attracted the attention of a pedestrian who kindly went and found a large rock to put behind the tyre. I am sure that the electronic handbrake is about cost saving and not driver safety.
Electronic hand brakes are more expensive, I think it's more about keeping old people on the road who can't pull on the handbrake fully.
Seen it a lot as a mechanic, saw what was happening ran away, never looked back.
Statistically less younger generations are buying cars and they are passing their tests later.
Happened to me i had a Granada mk1 3.0l auto in the early eighties driving down the A1 in Durham about 5 in the morning i was doing 80 for quite come time started getting foggy and saw the ice build up on the aerial let foot off the pedal she still revving away had to switch of engine and brake but had to keep flipping the ignition on to control the steering! Managed to stop open the bonnet and throttle linkage had froze on the carb! Released it and away i went but a lot slower!
Please bring back handbrakes. One of my biggest bug bears. To move my 675LT I have to get in it, start it, put the seatbelt one, then I can move it, but i don't know if I have moved enough (this is on the drive), sometimes I have to repeat a few times. To move my MX5 I let off the handbrake, push it to exactly where I want it and job done. No need to get in, no need for seatbelts, no need to start it! And don't get me started on Porsche back to front, which way do I press it dash mounted button! The one that auto comes on and needs 11,000 rpm to make it disengage! every time you drive off. I have slowed cars on the handbrake many times, can be modulated and used in an emergency. Should be LAW that al cars have a proper handbrake. oh and leaving the handbrake off to let brakes cool or dry? Forget it, pad / disc lock all the bloomin time
I agree! I had the same with the 675lt too
Totally agree with this.
You don't need to put the engine on, just turn on the ignition then put your foot on brake and press the parking brake button.
@stephenspender787 thanks Steve, 4 years and I didn't know 🤣 You're the oracle as always 👍🏻
The Lancia Beta Monte Carlo is now sighing with relief realising its not the only car with serious brake failure issues.
Police arrested the driver, no further info.
Not just no brakes,the car accelerated on its own 90mph in heavy traffic. This is the second time it's happened on the same car, Geoff buys cars has done a telephone interview with the guy. He's lucky to be alive by the sound of it.
Yes I just watched the video - crazy!
Psychological Operation
Happened twice to same person?
M60 has lots of bends that can’t be taken at over 120mph in the dry let alone raining.
5 Series Police BMW can do North 160mph
No Police footage
03:00 in the morning
I wonder why the driver was subsequently arrested?
Electronics mean we are losing control and things are getting more dangerous, its as simple as that, I really dislike the features in new cars in the past 5 - 10 years, big screens, no handbrakes or emergency brakes in the USA. the loss of buttons and switches that are cheap to replace versus screens. Truly pathetic.
I suspect the answer lies in being flashed for speeding.
Yeah, you would really go to all that trouble to avoid a speeding ticket🙃
@@barriewilliams4526Apparently so!? The driver was subsequently arrested, on a charge of dangerous driving?
The only type of brake failure i can think of due to an electrical fault on an ipace would be total failure of the 12 volt system. This would prevent actuation of the handbrake and disable brake boost... But it would still be possible to apply the brakes but with greatly increased pedal force, and you would still have some boost for the first couple of presses.
If the 12 volt failed that should also cause the electric motors to stop working, which doesnt fit the situation described.
The only complication is the ipace has a weird split 12 volt system with two separate batteries, so i dont know if its possible for half of it to fail and cause loss of braking but retention of drive power?? Even so you woukd expect it to respond to release of throttle pedal.
Its either a serious and systemic design fault that JLR should have known about at the design stage, or poor driver response to a genuine but not severe vehicle fault.
Something not quite right with this story I think. EVs still have hydraulic braking systems so while you may loose the 'servo' assistance you should still be able to apply the brakes as long as you have a strong right leg, unless of course it was a hydraulic system failure, but that can happen to any car. Maybe something with being unable or not knowing how to cut the traction from the motors.
This vehicle had been back to the dealership with faults several times in the last few months apparently. Sounds like the real problem hadn’t been identified each time it was returned to the owner.
Physical braking capable of overcoming the engine is a legal requirement. So you're not only talking about electrical failure in a manner that somehow forces the car to accelerate (very unlikely, given the number of redundancies required), but hydraulic and physical cabling failure simultaneously. Or the driver was out for a jolly, got caught and is using this as an excuse.
You can use an electric handbrake as an emergency brake by pulling it up and holding it up and it does bring you to an emergency stop. It was demonstrated to me when i was on a Landrover experience day many years ago. 😉
On a Tesla model s/x you can press and hold the parking brake button at the end of the drive stalk and it will engage the emergency parking brake. It would likely be a scary experience at high speed and even worse on damp roads but is an option at least. You can also knock it into neutral by a half shift of the same lever. I'm assuming it's the same for model y/3 but owners should check the in car manual
The driver has just been arrested today for dangerous driving and causing a public nuisance
is there a picture of the number plate anywhere?
All lies. Driver arrested for dangerous driving. He lied.
The electric handbrake still works on modern cars as I've tried it myself by accident!
Seems odd the iPace's handbrake and hydraulic brakes both failed at the same time the electric engine couldn't be controlled.
Hi Richard, I had a Panamera with adaptive cruise control. Out of know where at 70mph my brakes slammed on! Turned out my satnav was a few years old and where there was a roundabout it had now been removed. My cruise control thought I was speeding into the previous roundabout and took evasive action. Very dangerous and unnerving!
Jeeez how terrifying not to be in control of the car you are driving. When accidents happen due to these 'safety systems' who is responsible? The driver? The manufacturer? The satnav makers? Scary stuff.
Love our 2009 Mini Cooper S with 165,000 miles cheap and fun
I followed an electric car and thought driver crazy brake lights on off like mad and asked someone who drives new stuff and he said when some electric car on regen charge automatically put brake lights on
I have a Tesla I do feel bad for anyone behind me as I can see constantly brake light when I don’t even use it as regen so strong ! People must think I’m nuts
The lights come on far too late in the regen process. I use left foot braking in heavy traffic. It should come on when you slightly lift off
Its is a requirement in Law for the brake lights to come on at a certain level of regen braking. Perhaps don't drive so close behind?
I was driving down the A21 near Tonbridge on my way home via Matfield when I hit a stag on the road doing 65 MPH and my manual petrol car launched off it landed and I had no brakes after it landed and all I could do was steer to the side of the road and fortunately there was a bank I could slow down on. I only had an electric handbrake and push start button so this resonates with what happened to me a month ago. Scary stuff tbh
Why did you have no brakes, all cars have dual hydraulic systems so unless you lost the whole front end of the car at least brakes on two wheels should work plus the handbrake?
⚠️Jag driver probably been put into a straight jacket ⚠️
Seems that way
In the USA they call the hand brake the emergency brake. I also dont particularly like automatic gearboxes either. I have had cars where the brakes have failed, and limped them home judiciously just ising gears, engine and hanbrake (at night of course)
Kind of ironic that it’s no longer an emergency brake in modern cars. Maybe they should connect the button up to the emergency services to come out and help you stop .
You beat me to it buy my video is FAR less serious, hahaha.
🤣
In the US it’s called an E brake, an emergency brake in other words, a simple manual override, like on an aircraft, doors to manual, a big lever there to open the door in an emergency. The electronic parking brake is similar in my opinion to electronic door handles, technology going too far.
As for the Ferrari, surely he could just press the clutch to disconnect the engine from the drivetrain?
I wasn't in the car but that would work
Brakes have been known to suffer brake failure but with an ICE, this can usually be overcome by easing off the throttle, dip the clutch or select neutral in an auto and if available use the handbrake, not these blooming stupid electric brakes. Automatic handbrakes fail often on ICEs.
The first time this happened to him, after many attempts he finely got it into neutral but still had no brakes, so the police car got him to a halt. This time he could not get the car to do this, and rammed the police car for about 20 miles until his battery ran out.
Brakes should not be by wire. Accelerators should not be by wire. Steering certainly should not be by wire.
And in the i-pace brakes and steering are hydraulic and mechanical with electric assist.
Accelerators in vast majority of modern engines are electronic not mechanical. This is safer, mechanical throttle cables do stick. Electronic throttles use a dual sensor system if either throttle position sensor disagrees with the other than the car will stop. The pedal itself can become stuck, but not the control system.
@@insanityideas The parking brake in the I-Pace, as common with many cars now, is electronic. If the brakes in the car in the story were hydraulic, how on earth were they inoperable due to a system fault? The idea that sensors and electronics are safer than a cable is something I can't agree with as an engineer. Of course, this wouldn't be nearly as much of an issue if cars still had an actual physical off button / ignition switch. Sure there's something you can push, but all it does is tell the car to do something, it does NOT simply turn it off.
@@system11yt the handbrake is electric. The gearbox also has a separate parking pawl engaged when park is selected on the gearbox. Not all EV implement a parking pawl in the gearboxes to mechanically lock the transmission, but Jaguar do.
The footbrake is hydraulic with an electric boost pump.
2 separate braking systems using entirely different means of activation plus a transmission lock. Work exactly like every other JLR car and virtually every other car on the road.
Personally I think the brakes on this car worked just fine and it was user error, or had a pre-existing severe fault unrelated to vehicle electronics (e.g. lack of brake fluid, missing brake pads etc).
Only JLR will be able to find out, if they get the opportunity to investigate... As the car (and third party vehicles) was damaged it's now up to the insurance company if they turn it over to JLR for a proper answer.
This doesn't make any sense, if the brakes truly did not work why not put it in neutral or press the parking brake button. Electronic park brakes will try to apply the main brakes when at speed if they fail to work the actual parking brake will be applied.
Don't think this is just a handbrak issue
I bet this is one of those cars where the actual foot brake is drive by wire so no actual physical connection between the foot pedal and the master cylinder. Just a sensor and wire to a motor that drives the piston.
The thing is this is happening with more and more systems and the car companies are not asking if the consumer wants their brakes to be disconnected, doing this achieves nothing.
Is not the first I pace to have this problem and it's not the first car.
They have been talking about doing this with the steering too. Frightening.
Virtual dashboards could be dangerous as the counters/ gauges could just disappear & be left with a black screen.
I agree this could happen, I don’t mind them and the VAG ones and Land Rover have good analogue style display option. Some of them have a tiny screen or just a number for speed (VAG electric cars to name one) don’t like that one bit and takes me back to my mums old 2002 Citroen C3 which had something that resembled an old Casio watch type figure. Skoda also have some older proper Analogue dials that aren’t very well marked out for us in the Uk with very poor layout for MPH
Does an Electric car have to have an MOT after three years, and if do, are they the same as normal Diesel, Petrol?
Yes they do have a full test, and apart from an emission test they are the same.
Oh thanks for this, so when it comes to a hand brake test then, that would be a fail?
Alot of cars now have fly by wire brakes and throttles so no physical link, all controlled by electronics and we all know electronics fail.
Hi Richard, firstly great job in regards to JLR security, I received a call from your broker yesterday asked me about my RR then asked about a second car & house insurance didn’t even take any details advised me that if the second car wasn’t worth at least a 100k & the rebuild cost of my house wasn’t above 1.5million & contents wasn’t at least 100k they couldn’t even quote! Is this correct? It seems all RR owners are at the mercy of these insurance companies that’s if you can even get insured.
I will take a look at this one for you.
Could it being an electric car not have that regenerative braking so you could slow the car down by adjusting that to bring you to standstill with the accelerator pedal. I guess the ipace doesn’t have this feature.
Modern cars are too reliant on electronic systems. Many of them, despite apparently being for safety, actually make the vehicle difficult, or in some cases impossible to control in an emergency situation, and thus make the car unsafe. We need to get back to simply engineered cars with basic mechanical controls. The vast majority of these electronic 'driver aids' simply aren't necessary.
In answer to your question, it would never happen to me as:
1) I wouldn’t go near a JLR Product
2) I wouldn’t go near an EV
3) I wouldn’t go near a car that had an Electronic Parking Brake (they are not HAND brakes!)
No idea and even engineers don't know why.
If you fully charge an EV (100%) there is no regen braking, the driver is reliant on the normal brakes. The pedal push needed is therefore much harder, and can feel like brake failure to drivers who have always relied in servo assisted brakes. It was a frequent 'complaint' with early Nissan LEAFs. .Nothing wrong with the brakes, just driver panic.
The hydraulic brakes , behind the electrics, are to the same standard as those on all other cars. You just need to push down on the pedal HARDER,
The stop/start button won't work when the car is in motion
Thank you, I thought that would be the case
must be an override on these EV cars
That's a good bit of design.......NOT.
The thing is a handbrake was called an emergency brake for that reason because you can use it in an emergency. Are we going backwards sometimes
The correct term is 'Parking Brake' , it is designed for parking only. The 'Handbrake' on my old Humber Hawk would not pass the MOT Test (1971) even with rear wheel lock up. The foot brakes recorded over 90%. The modern standard is till quite low (25%?) whilst modern cars now require TWO braking systems up to the brake pad.
To be fair to the driver, phoning police and telling them the problem, waiting for them to arrive then being forcibly stopped, rather like 'Miracle on the Hudson'! - don't understand how they missed joining the World's longest car jam ( M25 ), first!
He was lucky, so who pays for the damage done to the police cars?
Hi Richard a friend of mine had a new jaguar i pace electric and it was at he’s work place the camera got it all the car just shot off at high speed with him with bum on seat feet on ground out the car it missed all the stuff around it went through trees and fence and he stopped it in a field JLR repaired it all free of charge and he never got told what it was that made it happen i ask him if he still got the video of it for you
Wow that would be interesting to see and know about!
@@Challengetheroad i sent him a message to contact you and i am playing golf with him end of month he’s got CCTV of it all from outside he’s warehouse it only just missed the big forklift 0 to 60 was quick it was new car about 2020/1
Sounds like the cruise control was engaged and couldn't be disarmed? Otherwise I don't understand why the driver just didn't lift foot off the loud pedal and coast to a halt by the roadside? For that amount of time to have passed to get the police involved, must have meant something more than just brakes involved, surely?
Throttle must have jammed too surely?
User error I’m sure
Morning I personally think some kind of a emergency hand break would definitely be a good idea for this kind of situation. I'm definitely staying with the old technology. Even more of a bad situation with the mild hybrid and full electric because their far more powerful.
yer would scare the life out of me but what i will say about the standard car electric button or lever for the handbrake is on the Discovery sport (mine is 2017) the lever just behind the automatic gear knob can be used as an emergency brake even by the passenger, was shown this at luton landrover off roading which i got curtsey of landrover when i bought the car the ex policeman who took me our off roading show me what my car would as well as this lever which i knew nothing about till he told me back in 2017. Got insurance on my discovery sport at £570 (Admiral) which was glad to get but my previous insurer wanted £995. so there seems to be maybe ok for the older vehicles/ drivers.
Cannot believe it was the second time it has happened to him too! Glad you got a good quote too
The driver must be very unlucky, for this to happen to him twice, once after passing a speed camera at 90mph! Even more unlucky to subsequently get arrested for dangerous driving! Wouldn't want his luck!?
There must be more to this story.. 90 mph on motorways, then having to call police, then having to wait for police.. And still haven't crashed 🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔. BTW and an electronic handbrake is 'still' a handbrake it's not a magic button haha
This is not the first time I heard this on I pace , common fault I believe but obviously Jaguar will deny this
Turn regen to full
Be interesting to know what happened in the coming days
Geoff buys cars done like you a video and he said this is not the first time this has happened before with same car in oct 2023 .his mum posted on x that it was her sons car and this is terrifying her . Thereneeds to be a master kill switch to disengage drive on ev cars that get in this situation near Glasgow last year same thing happened to a guy in a mgz4 it was doing 30mph but it would not stop guy phonedpolice and when ths police boxed him in and stopped the car the owner got out a policeman jumped in and when the police van in front started to pull away the electric stzrted to follow and the police had to stop itas it still wanted to drive forward really scary that
Although I cannot comment on the Geoff incident, I would refer to the Glasgow incident - I live near the scene and have a very hard time believing the story. Picture a built up area with multiple sets of traffic lights located close to each other, a car showroom, shopping centre, crossroads and one clear lane on each side of the road. No way did this guy drive anywhere without hitting something or someone. I would be happy to be corrected in this so anyone out there please comment.
I’m sure top gear did an electric handbrake “what if” a few years ago might be worth a watch
The answer is a dull one. Applying electric handbrake at speed results in a safe but mildly abrupt stop using just the rear wheels. No crazy skids. Nowhere near as fast a stop as the footbrake.
Only concerning issue is it takes a few seconds before it engages (to stop accidental activation). But it applies more force than I can with a manual handbrake lever.
Jaguar I pace I hear
Amazing - at last somebody that may understand the issues I have had with EV vehicles... I am forced to drive them for work, over 250 miles per day - unfortunately. Twice I have had a complete power outage on the motorway at speed in a Renault Zoe... Freaked me out and the garage simply could not find out why, but it happened yet again, and in the right hand lane of the M5. My co-driver, in a Vauxhall EV, had a massive brake failure with the foot brake, and the handbrake just did not work either despite being told this was impossible.... There is something wrong here and the main dealers simply deny it.... I now get a bit edgy every time I go out in the EV.
cant stand electric handbrakes! They are added complexity, less functional (extreme turns haha). I think in the US they refer to them as emergency brakes, well that cant work if they wont engage when the car is moving.
Emergency Brakes here in the USA are usually a foot brake, sometimes a handbrake. I agree electric hand brake switches are crap, and hard to find sometimes, the last thing you want be looking for in a rental or fleet pool car when you have no brakes.
Electric cars can be remote controlled. Useful for governments to find a way to "remove" annoyances.
The fault was with the driver and not the car
He's a fading, and none too bright, reality TV star from Big Brother that's fabricated the story to get in the headlines. Of the million EVs on the road this has to happen to a reality TV star. Get real. He managed his speed enough to not crash i.e. coming off the throttle, braking. Don't be so gullible, this is nothing more than attention seeking and will end up with him being arrested for dangerous driving. The whole stunt is already starting to backfire on him.
surely you can turn the drive into neutral
What about steer by wire, that sounds safe, not.
Could he not put the car in neutral? Then park.
The i-pace has neutral on the gear selector. But gears in an electric car are implemented in software, so if there was a software fault it may not work. But chances of that software fault seems very slim.
Park is implemented using a mechanical parking pawl like other automatic gearboxes. These will not engage (for mechanical reasons) whilst the car is moving at high speed, it probably also has a software lockout to avoid damage.
How about reporting how many ice cars failed brakes today?
I did mention ICE cars in the video?
It won't happen because I will never ever own a BOS electric car
It was all B.S. he's been arrested.
Second time this happened to same guy? Very suss.
Same car. Jkr returned it saying no fault found. It’s on finance so he can’t just walk away from it!
Ive owned Rc cars lol
you will not find me driving one
glad nobody was hurt
And on how id feel id poop myself
Why did you sell the 355, what a car
I would never bye a JLR car but I wouldn’t anyway, they are garbage
I love the f355 and sold my last Spider manual a few years ago - which I had for 10 years
2nd time with the same car and driver..
I have just seen that - incredible not fixed the first time
if that's true, would have no faith in the car. So lucky they didn't have a major accident given the speed and loss of braking.
Cleary a ipace jag so why simply mention EV in the title click bait?
No it’s nothing to do with a handbrake Electric or manual !!! If an ICE car has issues manual or automatic gearboxes you have options to disable or disconnect from the engine so you can still slow down, however when fully electric the car has full control of the drivetrain !!! So if the cars computer modules have a glitch you’re basically screwed !!!!