I got the toppling concept from Tom’s video, but you have explained the full execution really well. Pushing harder to get lower is a genius tip instead of trying topple more. Thx!
Out there ripping arcs already? Top tier content as always!! Looking forward to get on snow again teaching and practice for my exams. Thanks for everything, keep up the good work! Cheers from Sweden
Thank you so much for your videos and this one in particular. Just started warming up for 24/25 season with already 2 days under my belt and your videos are a great training tool as I look to get my carving to the next level.
Have you seen the "Stomp it" channel tutorial ? With these 2 videos I can see a lot of improvement in my edging angle ! My GS skis are sharpened at 88°, is that enough ? I've been through compétition before but never achieve your edging angle !
Hi Joe, I really appreciate how great you are at breaking down the little details when explaining skiing techniques. Could you make a video demonstrating the “pull radius” or “cross-under” turn technique? It would be fascinating to hear your take on this approach, especially with your ability to explain the feelings and key points in such detail. When I was starting out, I often got confused because I’d do one turn as a “cross-under” and the next as a “cross-over,” without understanding why. Your insights would be super helpful!
This was such an excellent video, with so much detail in the explanation, and so much of it makes perfect sense. I find that I have a really hard time getting my outside ski away from my body, i sometimes feel like I’m too bunched up under my body. Lately I’ve been focusing on driving my inside knee and simultaneously pushing as hard as I can on my outside leg, but I think a lot of my limitation boils down to just not having adequate fitness/leg strength to push against the turn forces at speed. I fully intend to send you a video and hire you to give me an analysis, if I can only find someone who can capture a decent video! In the meantime, how can I send a tip? There is so much value in this I would like to show my thanks!
Actually the "trick" to higher angles is either 1. the Instagram cheating method of braking to generate force/pressure which also generates spray but kills speed, or 2. the world cup method of pulling radius by dropping the hip *without dropping the shoulder* nearly as much, ie. increasing angulation. The latter works because the resulting increase in edge angle correspondingly decreases sidecut radius, which increases angular velocity/centrifugal force (that "pressure" Ski-Dad talks about) due to conservation of angular momentum. The angle your body can maintain vs the hill is direct result of centrifugal force. So he is correct there's increased pressure, but it's not pressure generated by "pushing harder" as some claim, but consequence of reducing radius of parabolic skis.
I get what you're trying to say, but since you're being so technical and using all those big words, technically you can't drop your hip without dropping your shoulder. They are attached - if one moves up/down it takes the other with it. The key is trying to have both shoulders the same amount, keeping them as parallel to the terrain as you can, creating angulation and higher edge angles. And you're absolutely correct that you don't need to push on anything -- the forces are already there. The skier simply directs the pressure where it needs to go by adjusting body position, creating angles.
@harryhanson6660 you absolutely can drop the hip without meaningfully dropping the shoulder, that's literally how angulation is done. Shoulders at similar level is rather a sign of angulation, not a cause of it like hip drop. It might help to draw out a picture to visualize the geometry. The degree of angulation (and shoulder levels) depends on specific speeds of the turn.
@@agenthex Physically impossible... unless you cut yourself in half and separate the upper body from the hips. Drop your hips, and your shoulder follows. The distance between hip and shoulder remains relatively the same. Period. To angulate, a skier creates an angle at the hip, keeping the body upright which drops both shoulders as evenly as possible with both shoulders parallel to the terrain. If one shoulder drops significantly more than the other, the skier would simply tip/lean until his center of mass (CoM) is too far away from the base of support (BoS, or the skis)causing the skier to simply fall over.
@@harryhanson6660 "The distance between hip and shoulder remains relatively the same. Period" Again I would suggest drawing some basic geometry. Angulation is a change of angle at the hip, bring them closer to the ground. Due to the change in angle, the shoulders remain at similar height from the ground. This is literally stuff elementary school kids could figure out.
@@agenthex Are you really that obtuse? In your example, the drawing would not reflect what you're saying unless the line from the hip to the shoulder increases in length. Our bodies don't to that. If you simply tip/lean with no angulation at the hip, then one shoulder will drop more than the other (but then you're not really "dropping your hip"), but both still move and you will simply fall over before attaining the edge angle you're looking for.
Hi ! Love all your content on high edge angle turns. I have a binding install question : Do you mount your binding on the manufacturer mid sole recommendation or do you mount a few centimeters forward to engage the ski tip. What are your recommendation on binding placement , cuff alignment and ramp angles for high edge angles. What are WC racers doing on their setup for GS and Slalom to hook up easier entering the turn. I would love to see your answer ASAP so I can act accordingly and experiment with binding placement.
My takeaway notes: It takes a lot of platform pressure on the outside ski (w/ basic requirement of strong leg/good alignment of edge, knee, hip) and that requires lateral velocity, so it takes a few turns to get up to speed before it's possible
Your a great skier, Way to technical with your explanations. All great skiers have there own style. Who is to say right or wrong works for them. Have fun skiing.
I've been wondering for a while about the interior knee use in high edge angle turns among other skiers. I see in a lot of videos that it looks to me like there's primarily just flexion while the outside ski is getting pressure and leading with extension into the turn. I loosely sort of have a watered down pmts background to my skiing so I learned to initiate with my interior ski through a diagonal leg flexion I think into the center of the turn so it seems so different to me; I want to understand how other people's skiing works. I see guys like you doing really awesome high edge angle turns with the interior knee almost pointed into center mass. Is this because for your personal style the inner knee isn't really as necessary, or is the way the body needs to be just like that for a high edge angle turn?
I just watched your new video on the 2 vs. 3 parts of a turn, and find both of these videos really well presented! Btw, is that Jordanelle Reservoir in the backdrop, being viewed from Deer Valley?
So im thinking the pressure on the outside ski is generated from the proper speed coming into the turn and angulating the ski more? And not actually pushing outward on the outside ski? It's the centrifugal force generated by the speed and digging in the ski with that high angle?
@@skidadTV thanks! It's a great feeling to experience that whip effect of the forces of physics when you get it right! 👊 Felt it last year for the first time. Can't wait for this February to take up where I left off in Snowmass!
@@swingman50 Yes, increasing angulation reduces subtended radius of parabolic sidecut skis, which increases centrifugal/centripetal force when momentum is conserved. I explain in bit further detail in the other comment here.
The interial forces we feel from skiing come from the direction change in our turns at speed. As you cross the hill to end your turn, your mass is fighting to go down the fallline, while your skis resist that force. If you want to build higher edge angles, speed is necessary in order to create enough force between the skis and the snow that you can build this inertial force. This is like a marble in a popcorn bowl. Don’t think of "pressure" on the outside foot, think of percentage of body weight. Because your mass is moving, your functional weight will change as you move through time. We generate enough force from our interia and our speed down the mountain that in some moments we experience weightlessness, and others much more than gravity. The only times we need to be actively pushing into the outside ski are when we are being compressed by inertial forces, such as going over a big compression.
I am a passionate, over 70 female skier. Three arthritic joints in my body need to be replaced, but I like looking good when I ski and have been working on everything you talked about. I notice on my selphy videos my inability to keep my skis parallel and sneak in a slight stem to help initiate the turn. I try to keep most of my weight on the downhill ski and try to get by butt down on the turn, but am afraid of falling uphill or catching an uphill edge. I cannot fall on my shoulder since it tends to dislocate if I do. Any suggestions? I free ski on GS race skis and thought maybe a softer ski with more or a slalom cut might help? I look much better on my shorter slalom skis.
I definitely recommend a softer ski the more you can bend it the more you can get into the turn Try out the soft ski on easy green runs first and see how you feel. Once you have a good command of the Ski then bump it up to more challenging terrain.
Is part of the motion to get into these high edge angles skating the outside ski into each turn? You say you're skating early on, and I can see you skating into a couple of the early turns, but I don't know if you continue to do it.
@skidadTV I guess I didn't ask that well. I'm curious if you feel like part of the motion of initiating a turn in general is kind of like skating? Like, you skate into a couple of turns, and that helps you get that movement built in, and you continue to do a similar movement on each turn from there? Not full on skate stepping, but a similar kind of feeling with the outside ski?
So how do you get pressure on that outside ski? I guess that’s the magical question that no one can answer. I watch all your videos along with many other instructors. No one has the answer. At least other instructors’ videos suggest drills, though they don’t help much. I really like how you think about the turns, although there’s not much new there as all the pros have been doing the same for years. Can you please help your viewers like me who are advanced recreational skiers to get to the high separation and edge angles? I have talked with a number of ex pros who have said that if you don’t learn how to do that when you’re really young you will probably never be able to. Thoughts on that? I imagine it might be hard for you pros to understand that.
The pressure to the outside ski needs to go against the “wall” you need your momentum pointing towards the “wall” for there to be any pressure to put against it. If the other instructors drills don’t help much then why do you want me to suggest more drills that don’t work. Drills suck… You can get the separation, keep trying. I do my best to cover one thing at a time. This video is just one piece. Get out there and give it a try
@ I’m guessing that you are referring to the momentum at the end of the turn as the wall. I can imagine pushing my leg out against that, and the only way to get any grip is to angulate and dig in the edge. Why am I saying this??? Can you please try to explain what is needed to get where you’re at? I would really love that because I think you may be a decent communicator if you can get some solid ideas together to communicate to your viewers.
@@billiselin5718 I answered your question in my other comment here. It's not from pushing but rather taking advantage of the physics of parabolic skis which reduce in radius with higher edge angle. The "pressure" is not from any pushing, but results from conservation of angular momentum in form of centrifugal force. I haven't seen anyone else explain this physics properly anywhere else, even in the couple ski "physics" book out there.
@skidadTV I think if you stayed on that outside ski earlier in the turn instead of slightly banking and also maybe worked on one ski skiing w transition on or before fall line, that may help.
@ That’s my first impression, but then I would argue myself do I really need pressure sensors under feet. I can feel the pressure with my feet and I need to apply pressure in the right place to achieve certain movements, so it may not be as important as we think. Instead, a sensor for upper body or hips will probably help more. However, I never tried Carv1 before, and I only skied one day with Carv2 so far, so I can’t make any comparison. I’m getting skiIQ from 145 to 154, and the instructions are somewhat helpful as it points out where needs to be improved but it doesn’t really help much on guidance of how to get there. Overall I feel alright, it gives me targets and makes me staying longer on slopes.
@@qin1992 What I find that I didn't realize was happening though was the timing of it all, and at times I wasn't actually getting as much as I felt... not getting enough angulation would leave more pressure on the inside ski. We're talking minimal amounts though, but at this level of skiing we work on and tweak the smaller details to try and achieve just a little bit more... maybe that's a waste of time, but I enjoy the challenge. Thanks for your thoughts!
So damn good. Why hasn’t anyone discussed this before. Pivoting the first 1-2 turns to get to pure carve on 3rd turn makes so much sense.
And looking further inside the turn is a cue I use to drive more direction across hill and thus more pressure onto outside ski
I got the toppling concept from Tom’s video, but you have explained the full execution really well. Pushing harder to get lower is a genius tip instead of trying topple more. Thx!
So good!!! I'll definitely be using this in 2 weeks in Snowmass! Can't wait!
11:02, 13:41 is the dream. So much work to do. Thanks for all you do!
Out there ripping arcs already?
Top tier content as always!!
Looking forward to get on snow again teaching and practice for my exams.
Thanks for everything, keep up the good work!
Cheers from Sweden
Thank you so much for your videos and this one in particular. Just started warming up for 24/25 season with already 2 days under my belt and your videos are a great training tool as I look to get my carving to the next level.
Well done from France ! 🇫🇷
Have you seen the "Stomp it" channel tutorial ? With these 2 videos I can see a lot of improvement in my edging angle ! My GS skis are sharpened at 88°, is that enough ? I've been through compétition before but never achieve your edging angle !
Hi Joe,
I really appreciate how great you are at breaking down the little details when explaining skiing techniques. Could you make a video demonstrating the “pull radius” or “cross-under” turn technique? It would be fascinating to hear your take on this approach, especially with your ability to explain the feelings and key points in such detail. When I was starting out, I often got confused because I’d do one turn as a “cross-under” and the next as a “cross-over,” without understanding why. Your insights would be super helpful!
This was such an excellent video, with so much detail in the explanation, and so much of it makes perfect sense. I find that I have a really hard time getting my outside ski away from my body, i sometimes feel like I’m too bunched up under my body. Lately I’ve been focusing on driving my inside knee and simultaneously pushing as hard as I can on my outside leg, but I think a lot of my limitation boils down to just not having adequate fitness/leg strength to push against the turn forces at speed. I fully intend to send you a video and hire you to give me an analysis, if I can only find someone who can capture a decent video! In the meantime, how can I send a tip? There is so much value in this I would like to show my thanks!
Venmo @SkiDadTV or PayPal.me/skidadtv
Actually the "trick" to higher angles is either 1. the Instagram cheating method of braking to generate force/pressure which also generates spray but kills speed, or 2. the world cup method of pulling radius by dropping the hip *without dropping the shoulder* nearly as much, ie. increasing angulation. The latter works because the resulting increase in edge angle correspondingly decreases sidecut radius, which increases angular velocity/centrifugal force (that "pressure" Ski-Dad talks about) due to conservation of angular momentum. The angle your body can maintain vs the hill is direct result of centrifugal force.
So he is correct there's increased pressure, but it's not pressure generated by "pushing harder" as some claim, but consequence of reducing radius of parabolic skis.
I get what you're trying to say, but since you're being so technical and using all those big words, technically you can't drop your hip without dropping your shoulder. They are attached - if one moves up/down it takes the other with it.
The key is trying to have both shoulders the same amount, keeping them as parallel to the terrain as you can, creating angulation and higher edge angles.
And you're absolutely correct that you don't need to push on anything -- the forces are already there. The skier simply directs the pressure where it needs to go by adjusting body position, creating angles.
@harryhanson6660 you absolutely can drop the hip without meaningfully dropping the shoulder, that's literally how angulation is done.
Shoulders at similar level is rather a sign of angulation, not a cause of it like hip drop. It might help to draw out a picture to visualize the geometry.
The degree of angulation (and shoulder levels) depends on specific speeds of the turn.
@@agenthex Physically impossible... unless you cut yourself in half and separate the upper body from the hips. Drop your hips, and your shoulder follows. The distance between hip and shoulder remains relatively the same. Period.
To angulate, a skier creates an angle at the hip, keeping the body upright which drops both shoulders as evenly as possible with both shoulders parallel to the terrain.
If one shoulder drops significantly more than the other, the skier would simply tip/lean until his center of mass (CoM) is too far away from the base of support (BoS, or the skis)causing the skier to simply fall over.
@@harryhanson6660 "The distance between hip and shoulder remains relatively the same. Period"
Again I would suggest drawing some basic geometry. Angulation is a change of angle at the hip, bring them closer to the ground. Due to the change in angle, the shoulders remain at similar height from the ground.
This is literally stuff elementary school kids could figure out.
@@agenthex Are you really that obtuse? In your example, the drawing would not reflect what you're saying unless the line from the hip to the shoulder increases in length. Our bodies don't to that.
If you simply tip/lean with no angulation at the hip, then one shoulder will drop more than the other (but then you're not really "dropping your hip"), but both still move and you will simply fall over before attaining the edge angle you're looking for.
Hi ! Love all your content on high edge angle turns. I have a binding install question : Do you mount your binding on the manufacturer mid sole recommendation or do you mount a few centimeters forward to engage the ski tip. What are your recommendation on binding placement , cuff alignment and ramp angles for high edge angles. What are WC racers doing on their setup for GS and Slalom to hook up easier entering the turn. I would love to see your answer ASAP so I can act accordingly and experiment with binding placement.
I like the recommended mounting point
Joe, could you discuss rotary in the turn sometime coming up? Lots of discussion about edge and angle. How and where does rotary play into this?
My takeaway notes:
It takes a lot of platform pressure on the outside ski (w/ basic requirement of strong leg/good alignment of edge, knee, hip) and that requires lateral velocity, so it takes a few turns to get up to speed before it's possible
Well put
Your a great skier, Way to technical with your explanations. All great skiers have there own style. Who is to say right or wrong works for them. Have fun skiing.
Maybe too technical for you, but some of us enjoy the hell out of nerdy tech on body actions in a ski turn. Not everything is made for you.
Your just not an Advanced skier ⛷️ 😂
I like how you use freeride skis for this
I've been wondering for a while about the interior knee use in high edge angle turns among other skiers. I see in a lot of videos that it looks to me like there's primarily just flexion while the outside ski is getting pressure and leading with extension into the turn. I loosely sort of have a watered down pmts background to my skiing so I learned to initiate with my interior ski through a diagonal leg flexion I think into the center of the turn so it seems so different to me; I want to understand how other people's skiing works.
I see guys like you doing really awesome high edge angle turns with the interior knee almost pointed into center mass. Is this because for your personal style the inner knee isn't really as necessary, or is the way the body needs to be just like that for a high edge angle turn?
Tried it out today & it totally works!! Another great video @skidadTV 🙏🏽🙏🏽
Really helpful!
I just watched your new video on the 2 vs. 3 parts of a turn, and find both of these videos really well presented! Btw, is that Jordanelle Reservoir in the backdrop, being viewed from Deer Valley?
Thank you
Yep, it sure is
So im thinking the pressure on the outside ski is generated from the proper speed coming into the turn and angulating the ski more? And not actually pushing outward on the outside ski? It's the centrifugal force generated by the speed and digging in the ski with that high angle?
Yes, well put!
@@skidadTV thanks! It's a great feeling to experience that whip effect of the forces of physics when you get it right! 👊 Felt it last year for the first time. Can't wait for this February to take up where I left off in Snowmass!
@@swingman50 Yes, increasing angulation reduces subtended radius of parabolic sidecut skis, which increases centrifugal/centripetal force when momentum is conserved. I explain in bit further detail in the other comment here.
The interial forces we feel from skiing come from the direction change in our turns at speed. As you cross the hill to end your turn, your mass is fighting to go down the fallline, while your skis resist that force. If you want to build higher edge angles, speed is necessary in order to create enough force between the skis and the snow that you can build this inertial force. This is like a marble in a popcorn bowl.
Don’t think of "pressure" on the outside foot, think of percentage of body weight. Because your mass is moving, your functional weight will change as you move through time. We generate enough force from our interia and our speed down the mountain that in some moments we experience weightlessness, and others much more than gravity. The only times we need to be actively pushing into the outside ski are when we are being compressed by inertial forces, such as going over a big compression.
I am a passionate, over 70 female skier. Three arthritic joints in my body need to be replaced, but I like looking good when I ski and have been working on everything you talked about. I notice on my selphy videos my inability to keep my skis parallel and sneak in a slight stem to help initiate the turn. I try to keep most of my weight on the downhill ski and try to get by butt down on the turn, but am afraid of falling uphill or catching an uphill edge. I cannot fall on my shoulder since it tends to dislocate if I do. Any suggestions? I free ski on GS race skis and thought maybe a softer ski with more or a slalom cut might help? I look much better on my shorter slalom skis.
I definitely recommend a softer ski the more you can bend it the more you can get into the turn
Try out the soft ski on easy green runs first and see how you feel. Once you have a good command of the Ski then bump it up to more challenging terrain.
You are my goals Lynn!
Awesome video Joe - Happy Thanksgiving! Shot you an email on Tuesday, hoping to get some of your fabulous feedback :)
Iv responded to everyone. LMK if you haven’t heard back from me
Why the little jump into the turn? Is it to help you get into the turn quicker?
Absolutely, it also allows the skis to rotate into the arc and gives me stability over the outside ski as quick as possible
Is part of the motion to get into these high edge angles skating the outside ski into each turn? You say you're skating early on, and I can see you skating into a couple of the early turns, but I don't know if you continue to do it.
I skate through the 2nd turn in 2 of the examples. It is not always necessary
@skidadTV I guess I didn't ask that well.
I'm curious if you feel like part of the motion of initiating a turn in general is kind of like skating?
Like, you skate into a couple of turns, and that helps you get that movement built in, and you continue to do a similar movement on each turn from there?
Not full on skate stepping, but a similar kind of feeling with the outside ski?
So how do you get pressure on that outside ski?
I guess that’s the magical question that no one can answer. I watch all your videos along with many other instructors. No one has the answer. At least other instructors’ videos suggest drills, though they don’t help much.
I really like how you think about the turns, although there’s not much new there as all the pros have been doing the same for years.
Can you please help your viewers like me who are advanced recreational skiers to get to the high separation and edge angles?
I have talked with a number of ex pros who have said that if you don’t learn how to do that when you’re really young you will probably never be able to. Thoughts on that? I imagine it might be hard for you pros to understand that.
The pressure to the outside ski needs to go against the “wall” you need your momentum pointing towards the “wall” for there to be any pressure to put against it.
If the other instructors drills don’t help much then why do you want me to suggest more drills that don’t work. Drills suck…
You can get the separation, keep trying. I do my best to cover one thing at a time. This video is just one piece. Get out there and give it a try
@ I’m guessing that you are referring to the momentum at the end of the turn as the wall. I can imagine pushing my leg out against that, and the only way to get any grip is to angulate and dig in the edge. Why am I saying this??? Can you please try to explain what is needed to get where you’re at? I would really love that because I think you may be a decent communicator if you can get some solid ideas together to communicate to your viewers.
@ and I agree drills suck.
Send me a video and I’ll give you specific advice for your skiing. dunn83@gmail.com
@@billiselin5718 I answered your question in my other comment here. It's not from pushing but rather taking advantage of the physics of parabolic skis which reduce in radius with higher edge angle. The "pressure" is not from any pushing, but results from conservation of angular momentum in form of centrifugal force. I haven't seen anyone else explain this physics properly anywhere else, even in the couple ski "physics" book out there.
Yeah... I better starting squatting with 200 kg before try that :)
Not necessary. Finesse existing forces!
A bit of banking going on. These turns may not work on ice.
Obviously if I’m on ice the position will adjust accordingly.
Why would I ski with an “ice technique” on soft snow?
@skidadTV I think if you stayed on that outside ski earlier in the turn instead of slightly banking and also maybe worked on one ski skiing w transition on or before fall line, that may help.
It actually does. I'll try to send video
Just tried my Carv 2, and it tells me to do better on early edging. 3:24 this is exactly what I need to do🫡
How do you like your Carv 2? I really didn't like the fact you can no longer measure pressure metrics.....
@ That’s my first impression, but then I would argue myself do I really need pressure sensors under feet. I can feel the pressure with my feet and I need to apply pressure in the right place to achieve certain movements, so it may not be as important as we think. Instead, a sensor for upper body or hips will probably help more. However, I never tried Carv1 before, and I only skied one day with Carv2 so far, so I can’t make any comparison. I’m getting skiIQ from 145 to 154, and the instructions are somewhat helpful as it points out where needs to be improved but it doesn’t really help much on guidance of how to get there. Overall I feel alright, it gives me targets and makes me staying longer on slopes.
@@qin1992 What I find that I didn't realize was happening though was the timing of it all, and at times I wasn't actually getting as much as I felt... not getting enough angulation would leave more pressure on the inside ski. We're talking minimal amounts though, but at this level of skiing we work on and tweak the smaller details to try and achieve just a little bit more... maybe that's a waste of time, but I enjoy the challenge. Thanks for your thoughts!