I think it would have been great if there was a demonstration solo using these tips included within this RUclips video. Any chance you could make a follow-up on this providing a few improvisational examples?
Hey, great course and channel 👍. I do similar online classes here in Poland. We do not name it "modes", but terminology "church scales", but they are very similar. Names of scale are identical as modes. Greetings from a teacher from Poland.
Nigel, I hope it's OK to challenge a bit here. I agree this is an easy way to learn the modes (and I still use it), I always think it isn't the best psychology for understanding the modes. I prefer to think of Mixolydian as being a major scale with a b7 and a Dorian as being a major scale with a b3 and a b7 (or a melodic minor with a b7). It's more complicated but as I progressed a bit, I find this psychology better for understanding the mode itself rather than how it relates to it's parent Ionian scale. Same with Lydian Dominant and Super Locrian, both great useful scales for soloing over a dominant chord (the latter for altered chords of course) but I don't find how they relate to the 'parent' Melodic Minor particularly relevant. - Just my 'tuppence worth'
Hey Steve. Thanks so much for your comments here. Understanding the modes the way you describe here is really important, particularly for more advanced improvisers or players with a better understanding of music theory. I use the system in this video for newer players as an easy way to start understanding modes. Hope that makes sense.
@@McGillMusicSaxSchool Absolutely Nigel. My 1st instrument is guitar where you only have to think 'shapes' rather than notes. I learnt all the modes in a jiffy just by starting my major scale on a different fret and then starting the relevant mode on a different scale degree, easy peesy. However this lead me to consider D Dorian as just a way of thinking about playing on the II chord of a major scale which of course isn't the concept. D Dorian is a scale in it's own right and D is very much the key center. Listening to Staying Alive (Bee Gees), Pick Up The Pieces (AWB) or I Wish (S Wonder), the IV chord being Maj or even a dominant chord is what gives Dorian it's individuality. I fully appreciate why modes are always taught the way they are and that this is all beyond a basic grasp of modes. My point really is that once we have the concept it is important to understand that each mode is a unique scale in it's own right. Once I get a few other things out the way, I might join Sax School as I want to get a bit more serious on sax (I've just bought a Bari too)
@@stevepovey2489 Modes are Modes! Seeing them as Scales “in their own rights” is treating them as their own individual islands, completely unrelated. This is a somewhat false perspective, as they really do relate and come from the Major scale. (Even Harmonic and Melodic minor are simple alterations of the Major scale) If you learn the Modes in relationship to the Key which they belong, then viewing the “Modes as scale in their own rights” becomes somewhat second nature. To not have this “Parent Scale” connection would mean you’ll be thinking of let’s say a “2,5,1 chord progression” in C, as three completely unrelated chords. e.g: Thinking D Dorian over the 2, G Mixolydian over the 5 and then C Major over the one. (basically fake mental modulation) When your really just playing within the same Key, using the same set of notes. In this context thinking of the Modes as “scales in their own right” is way over complicating the reality of what’s really going on. In fact there’s many great Jazz musicians that think completely Parent scale only and simply outline the chords contained within it. Look at the Jazz greats (like Joe Pass & Barry Harris) they NEVER learned the Modes, yet can play over any chord progression you throw at them. The intervals only tell us something about the scales/modes, the most important thing is to be able to hear the sounds and then play what you hear. The vast majority of musicians can spell out scale formulas and play the shapes, but ask them to sing you a mode like Dorian and they can’t. There’s a loss of connection there. Music is the art of sound, not a series of mathematical formulas.
Well, everything you said is right... but also IMHO it’s somewhat wrong. If you plan to go on and work on ii V I progressions, this is the same as the “chord scale” approach, which can be misleading. But for true modal improvisation, then you need to emphasize that what makes a mode is the relationship of each note to the root. Getting the sound of the mode in you r ear is critical - practicing with a drone is good for that. Nicely presented, though!
Thanks Steve, that’s a great point and something that I cover later in this lesson series. This video is just the first in the series and is an overview which hopefully makes understanding what modes are a little easier. Thanks for watching.
i cant read , or am to lazy to read notes, i play from hearing, but , since i hear you speak in notes, that means , this video is not for me, or i have to try and read notes, but i know myself
wow thank you so much
that really help me. just brought a soprano sax about a month ago
I always watching your channel Mr McGill
Very lovely
Brilliant lesson which greatly helped me understand Dorian & Mixolydian modes to work on my scales going forward. Thanks Nigel 👍🏼😉
Glad it helped you Thierry!
I think it would have been great if there was a demonstration solo using these tips included within this RUclips video. Any chance you could make a follow-up on this providing a few improvisational examples?
Thank you for explaining this I'm looking to eventually buy my first sax
Thanks Nigel! It's starting to make sense now, the way you explained it.
Great to hear that William. Glad it helped.
Hey, great course and channel 👍.
I do similar online classes here in Poland.
We do not name it "modes", but terminology "church scales", but they are very similar. Names of scale are identical as modes. Greetings from a teacher from Poland.
Hey Leno. Thanks for checking out this video and nice to hear from you! Good luck with your channel - some great stuff on there.
Hey,it's great to how to call them differently & thanks.
Thank you, Nigel
Nigel, I hope it's OK to challenge a bit here. I agree this is an easy way to learn the modes (and I still use it), I always think it isn't the best psychology for understanding the modes. I prefer to think of Mixolydian as being a major scale with a b7 and a Dorian as being a major scale with a b3 and a b7 (or a melodic minor with a b7). It's more complicated but as I progressed a bit, I find this psychology better for understanding the mode itself rather than how it relates to it's parent Ionian scale. Same with Lydian Dominant and Super Locrian, both great useful scales for soloing over a dominant chord (the latter for altered chords of course) but I don't find how they relate to the 'parent' Melodic Minor particularly relevant. - Just my 'tuppence worth'
Hey Steve. Thanks so much for your comments here. Understanding the modes the way you describe here is really important, particularly for more advanced improvisers or players with a better understanding of music theory. I use the system in this video for newer players as an easy way to start understanding modes. Hope that makes sense.
@@McGillMusicSaxSchool Absolutely Nigel. My 1st instrument is guitar where you only have to think 'shapes' rather than notes. I learnt all the modes in a jiffy just by starting my major scale on a different fret and then starting the relevant mode on a different scale degree, easy peesy. However this lead me to consider D Dorian as just a way of thinking about playing on the II chord of a major scale which of course isn't the concept. D Dorian is a scale in it's own right and D is very much the key center. Listening to Staying Alive (Bee Gees), Pick Up The Pieces (AWB) or I Wish (S Wonder), the IV chord being Maj or even a dominant chord is what gives Dorian it's individuality. I fully appreciate why modes are always taught the way they are and that this is all beyond a basic grasp of modes. My point really is that once we have the concept it is important to understand that each mode is a unique scale in it's own right. Once I get a few other things out the way, I might join Sax School as I want to get a bit more serious on sax (I've just bought a Bari too)
@@stevepovey2489 Modes are Modes! Seeing them as Scales “in their own rights” is treating them as their own individual islands, completely unrelated. This is a somewhat false perspective, as they really do relate and come from the Major scale. (Even Harmonic and Melodic minor are simple alterations of the Major scale)
If you learn the Modes in relationship to the Key which they belong, then viewing the “Modes as scale in their own rights” becomes somewhat second nature.
To not have this “Parent Scale” connection would mean you’ll be thinking of let’s say a “2,5,1 chord progression” in C, as three completely unrelated chords.
e.g: Thinking D Dorian over the 2, G Mixolydian over the 5 and then C Major over the one. (basically fake mental modulation) When your really just playing within the same Key, using the same set of notes. In this context thinking of the Modes as “scales in their own right” is way over complicating the reality of what’s really going on.
In fact there’s many great Jazz musicians that think completely Parent scale only and simply outline the chords contained within it.
Look at the Jazz greats (like Joe Pass & Barry Harris) they NEVER learned the Modes, yet can play over any chord progression you throw at them.
The intervals only tell us something about the scales/modes, the most important thing is to be able to hear the sounds and then play what you hear.
The vast majority of musicians can spell out scale formulas and play the shapes, but ask them to sing you a mode like Dorian and they can’t. There’s a loss of connection there.
Music is the art of sound, not a series of mathematical formulas.
You sound a lot like Ian McCormack Nigel, are you from New Zealand mate ?
Suave....😎
Well, everything you said is right... but also IMHO it’s somewhat wrong. If you plan to go on and work on ii V I progressions, this is the same as the “chord scale” approach, which can be misleading. But for true modal improvisation, then you need to emphasize that what makes a mode is the relationship of each note to the root. Getting the sound of the mode in you r ear is critical - practicing with a drone is good for that. Nicely presented, though!
Thanks Steve, that’s a great point and something that I cover later in this lesson series. This video is just the first in the series and is an overview which hopefully makes understanding what modes are a little easier. Thanks for watching.
No link for free trail after your intern?...
You can get the free trial from our website here Thomas: www.mcgillmusic.com
Surely these are just modes. This is exactly the same for guitar. Not to do with jazz per se.
For sure. Bach used them. There a jazz 'chords'. D7(b2 #5) for ex.
i cant read , or am to lazy to read notes, i play from hearing, but , since i hear you speak in notes, that means , this video is not for me, or i have to try and read notes, but i know myself
Hi Nigel, thans you for this very insightful video! This is the II/V/I cycle right?
Hey Timo, yes this is part of it - in fact later in the full Mini-Course I show how the whole thing fits together.
McGill Music Sax School thanks Nigel, I will be sure to follow your mini course then! Hoping to finally (!) understand this concept... 🤓
Tt
These are just modes aren't they, why are you calling them Jazz modes?
Hi Philip. Yes, they are just modes, but lots of learners refer to them as jazz modes. Thanks for watching.
Why are you trying to be bob reynolds so bad?