@@UniDocs_Mahapushpa_Cyavana Yes of course. But I play EU games probably 20 years now and believe me, playing EU4 vs EU2 back then is like driving a modern car with adaptive cruise and line assist vs driving Ford Model T. And yes ancient car is enjoyable but you don't want it for everyday commute. ) Paradox did great job to automate a lot of routine actions in that game.
For the people in twitch chat who claimed that the math doesn't work for the time required to build a Sicilan Donjon. Here is how we are supposed to understand the 50% faster (which I agree is hard to know how to interpret) : - With no bonus : I need 125s to build 1 donjon - If I build 50% faster : I need 125s to build 1 donjon + 50% of another donjon - Which means in 125s I can build 1.5 donjon - So to build 1 donjon, I'll need 125/1.5 = 83.33s
The idea that the only actions players should focus on in a game is army management and all other actions should be reduced to a minimum is completely destroying aoe2.
As I said it elsewhere, why don't they just switch the passive of Mongols with Nomads, and make the bonus HP thing the Castle Age tech. It makes more sense as an identity for the civ (otherwise no one really reaserches it in Casle Age anyway, while being there since the start could have some uses), and the HP bonus thing wouldn't be really OP if you actually need a Castle and then research it.
@@aralornwolf3140 I meant that the baseline he suggested is only a 5% difference from the patch notes (20% vs 15%). I later realized his point wasn't that, but that the full effect should be locked behind the castle age unique tech. Silly me.
It's wonderful auto place farm!!!! I remember playing aoe2k and they were no late game because you have to reseed each farm manually. The trick was have hot key for idle vil, spam it with right click and it reseed all farm in less than 10 seconds!
Thats the only way I play(ed) I feel like its just a part of the game... but now you have auto farm and auto scout and.... It feels... like going from a manual to an automatic car.
@@FacialVomitTurtleFights play a game on aoe2k and you will understand that there is no strategy expect if you are a macro king. Want to make many vil? Spam many hotkey.
I thought the "Auto Dropoff" button they just added was a bad idea but after using it for a month i think it works out fantastic so im very open to the farm placement buff
@@adeadfishdied Well as youre trying to get idle TC times down you will need to use it with civs like Aztecs or Georgians, I would practice with it cuz its a actually awesome! The best part about it is it doesnt erase queued actions so if you have a vill on one sheep and want him to go to a specific one next you can use the force-drop button and he wont forget his next sheep target
I haven't tried the farm placement for myself but it looks like it takes an additional action or two. Well worth it, if you want to lay down 10 farms in the late game.....IDK how useful in the early game when you're creating 1-2 farms at a time. Also in the late game farm placement matters less. I don't think it'll make a big difference.
I felt that mundane tasks should be fine to automate years ago when starcraft 2 automated many things and introduced lots of “QoL” changes to make those types of tasks “easier” so people could focus on the more “important” army micro. Having many years of time to reconsider, i have fully reversed that position. StarCraft 1 is so much more interesting to watch and play and a big part is the game making you choose between effective macro and effective micro. In 2 you can macro so easily that micro is everything, and at that point i found myself asking “why even have macro, why not just give players armies at the start and let them micro battle for the game?”
@@somebody700 the same is true in starcraft 1. In starcraft 1 you cant even select multiple buildings at the same time, so all those unit production buildings have to be manually selected and told to produce units one at a time, every time. Also micro is more difficult in that you can only select a maximum of 12 units at a time (im not trying to say one way or the other if its “overall more difficult, just more difficult in this one dimension). And additionally decisive wins are easier to achieve in starcraft 1. The average game is 10-15 minutes long. So yoir example of “small mistake could lose you the game easily” is even more true in SC1. SC1 forces you to pick each moment between 5 tasks you desperately need to accomplish, and no human can actually do all of them perfectly. So then players who are better at doing all the things are able to win on that basis, as opposed to the game leveling out the skill required to play so that only one skill decides every game.
@@somebody700 the design philosophy behind decisions like this are “bad and mid players will feel like theyre better artificially, which will make them enjoy the game more, at the expense of the skill ceiling of the game being lowered somewhat”. This one change wont really matter, i dont care about it specifically, but I hate the reasoning and what it suggests for future changes. Especially for ranked matches, which are intended to be competitive and reward skill and grinding out your abilities over time. If they want to add this type of option for custom games i dont care.
@@somebody700 I know that's the argument, that it makes the game more strategy oriented, but I hard disagree. The strategy comes from resource management, the most important resource being "time", the T in RTS. Also I know you're talking about precision clicking in macro, which I also think is important, but obviously precision clicking is a huge part of RTS. Army movement, spellcasting (siege attack-ground in age), even boar luring (a macro-oriented task) requires precision. Placing walls or buildings for walls requires precision or they have gaps and become completely useless. At least with farms any idiot, myself included, can place them quickly. The skill comes from placing them both quickly and accurately. And the punishment for messing that up isn't instantly dying to cavalry like with placing walls, but instead just having a slightly worse economy over time. We could automate all those things away but it would make for a terrible and boring game.
The problems with sc2 as compared to brood war have nothing to do with macro though. The issues are purely born of the ease with which the controls allow degenerate levels of spell caster micro which was impossible in brood war, and the fact that was warpgate and its consequences have been a disaster for protoss balance.
IMO Elephants should take a tech to convert, like siege or monks. Like... **Dispensation**: 175G, 60S research time, 'can convert elephants'. That way you actually have a chance to use a few early on.
@@NoraNoita Actually the number of clicks will be changed in practice. It is just question of what way since people can afford the time to place less farms at lower wood count, but they also have ability to place more farms before having to look elsewhere on map.
I think the biggest problem for scorpion is how they stack - one might survive a cannon hit now, but if one cannon can hit five of them with one shot that's still brutal.
Adding more automatic features to remove "mundane" tasks is a very slippery slope. I'd say queuing up villagers is a pretty mundane task... should they add a button to the TC to automatically make a villager every 25 seconds if you have enough food? How about auto-deer push with the scout?
@@collaide THIS! This is exactly the problem, each time they made these movies, the game becomes more micro-intensive (which was never the point with this series)...
@@domingossn Yep. And the micro that exists becomes more and more military focused. No more pros and cons between focusing on eco efficiency or military micro.
I can see what you're saying, but is farm placement in particular truly such a precious part of Age of Empires? It takes a lot of precise micro for what it does, and you're stuck doing it for almost the entire game. That's a huge chunk of time spent on this one mechanic, and even _with_ auto placement, you still need to manage your economy yourself. I don't think it's a bad change.
@@danieltoth9742 that's the thing though. Players who are good at farm placement and doing it quickly are able to free up time to micro elsewhere. This game is about managing your military AND your economy. Is auto farm gonna break the game? No. And quite frankly, if they stopped here, I would be perfectly happy. But if they continue down this path, this game will eventually turn into something ugly that feels very different to play.
There's no way Berbers are becoming a top 2 water civ just because of one military bonus that boosts micro potential. If 10% movement speed is so powerful they'd be pick/ban on every fast water map already.
They should buff Fish 🐟 Traps as well with auto placement to keep the water 🌊 balanced and strategically important. It will be even more important for Fish Traps, because it would also mean fishing ships will finally be able to be tasked to fish traps in groups.
I would 10'000% want the ability to SLIDE farms down in a line then make nearby mills followed by surrounding them as normal... my Pinwheels are great & I'll probably keep doing those. But in the previous few vids they didn't tackle if the farms would be placed in the pinwheel & then secondly how any trees or buildings might screw up the placements for what you'd want (e.g. you'd end up with 2 fewer farm placements near a T.C. due to inefficient 'Auto'-placements.
Decision making should be hard and constrained, that’s what makes elo valuable. If you make everything easy so people can just focus on “making the correct decisions” you’re making the game much more one dimensional. The game has lasted 20 years without “auto” features.. Just don’t screw it up.
Easier basics = lower entry level = more appealing to casual gamers = more players. I think this is the basic thought process for the aoe2 devs. But I'm not one of em so idk. Maybe I'm talking smack.
I don't like the farm update, mostly as it seems like the macro aid features will never stop being added. Being efficient with eco shouldn't be seen as less worth than micro skills, otherwise why aren't we playing a moba
really sad seeing how many people are supporting it. skill expression in a real time strategy IS a thing. choosing what is important to focus on, and how well you can do that under pressure is all a part of the game.
With the introduction of auto drop off and then you talking about auto farm placement. It sounds like you only have to look towards Xbox to see what they can do and what could be introduced to pc players. Auto drop off was on controller from day one and so is auto farm placement. Would be interesting if they added auto ECO. It wouldn't be a bad thing because none of the good controller players use it and so I doubt good pc players would but it would help new players get a feel for how to play.
I wouldnt be surprised if they eventually add auto-queuing villagers. Changes like this will make the game more fun for lower-level players but will decrease higher level game depth making the once profound ocean become shallower and shallower...
The fact that we're seriously discussing if auto-farms should be a thing says A LOT about how the community doesn't want the game to change. Reminds me of the slightest changes in Pokemon games being met with outraged hostility.
Exactly. This is how niche communities bring stagnation and death to the very thing they are formed around, sabotaging and fighting any progress. Big part of the reason why RTS genre is barely alive right now, being stuck in design conventions made in 90s while other gaming genres get modernized and become more comfortable and fun to play, reducing the entry barrier and focusing on the interactions between players instead of fighting the game UI.
@@FloosWorld_AoE Which is stupid, the good thing about Quake 1-3 and Doom 2 is the usage of movement which was redesigned in newer games for the sake of semi-realism, which kills so much fun. Now you have pseudo fans of old games who don't understand this and fuel yet another meme genre, when real fans want to see a step forward not a step backwards.
@@FloosWorld_AoE This very niche subgenre emulates mostly aesthetics and arcadeness. It still incorporates modern game design achievements and quality of life features. It doesn't force players into clunky control schemes from 90s, doesn't use clunky and counter-intuitive mechanics from 90s, and doesn't make the life of the player painful just for the sake of old times. There is always a market for nostalgia and there is always a conservative demographic. It doesn't mean the progress should stop and we should defend bad design decisions.
I really dislike the auto-farm placements. I feel like quality of life changes are good generally, but this is where I draw the line tbh. A very real tradeoff for using too much micro in fights is that your economy likely won't be as efficient. If you don't believe that tradeoff should exist, just automate more things until you don't need to manage your eco at all and it's just a micro-intensive war game with no real eco aspect? Genuinely!? This isn't just a quality of life change. This is also a GAMEPLAY change. The skill of RTS is to juggle many different things. And some tasks that are tedious, for instance being able to queue 5 of the same units with one hotkey is GOOD, because it's a mundane, repetitive, and useless task. If it didn't exist, you would just sit in a menu and click the same button 5 times. Placing farms is different. It's a "building" that takes up grid space in the gameplay area. This is way too much. It's directly automating GAMEPLAY vs automating something external in the game. I honestly never approved of autoscout either and the only reason I think it's acceptable is because it's so bad at efficiently scouting. Scouting genuinely was a skill, and making sure you scout the entire map in late-game was a skill that you had to use. I was also on the fence about resource-dropoff but I think that's about doing two shift-clicks vs just one click so I think it's acceptable. I know it's a meme, but genuinely, what's next? Auto lure dear button for your scout cavalary? Autoscout function enabled on herdables? Make villagers run back to the closest TC if they attack a boar? Have an autoque where you can prioritize one unit, like villager, and then knights for instance, and it makes sure there's always exactly ONE in the queue if possible? Autowall, where it builds fortifications between map edge, water, and woodlines in a circle around your TC? Auto-rebuild lumber camps? (wow this one they did but only for 2 civs lol). Auto-build barracks when halfway up to feudal with an idle/straggler villager?
auto-ping on the minimap if an enemy is visible? auto-onager-cut? auto-shortwall woodline? military stances for villagers starting in dark age so you don't need to click so much when attacking with them? auto-quickwall your villager?
auto-queue fishing ship button on dock as soon as you reach 75 wood? auto-build castle to protect your eco in late imp? auto-rewall behind existing wall? auto unlock gate if an ally comes near it? auto-collect relic button on monks? ETC ETC.
Otto farms, Otto macro, Otto the Great On a serious note, try single player where you select AI as player 1. It is literally auto everything, while still letting you give commands to units. This lets you see all the places where "auto" makes your civ perform worse. I did this in HD, where a lot of the worse performance was from using 'town size attack' as a general method of spamming units towards a location without formations limited to the slowest unit, so I don't know what it's like in DE, but as long as the extreme AI can be beaten by a 1400+ rated player, it's making mistakes.
Woah there, take it easy, this definitely won't destroy the game. It automates precision for a mundane task, which normally takes up an unnecessarily huge chunk of the game. What it does NOT do is automate your eco-management. And you will still spend a LOT of time placing farms, since each villager requires their own, unlike literally every other resource in the game (except fish traps). This change just sacrifices mechanical clutter to allow for more strategy, micro, base-expansion, or anything else you can slot into all the time this frees up. I think it's a good tradeoff.
Auto farm: quality of life, it's nice but whatever Battle elephants: this is mostly for Khmer and Malay, only civs with viable castle age elephants, and also the Khmer speed bonus needs higher base speed (especially after nerf from 15% -> 10%) Scorpions: more hp is nice, melee armor doesn't matter, they should be faster Towers: yeah they should cost more wood and less stone. Towers are mostly feudal and castle play, priority resource is wood, and they shouldn't compete as much with castles for stone. Demos: finally, they always should've been better against buildings And the continued cycle of nothing changes continues.
As someone who struggles with the macro stuff, Auto reseeding was good, but this is a bit too far IMO. Besides, why are they focused on adding random features into such an old game. They should focus on improving current experience and balance changes strictly. This kind of stuff should happen in their newer game where people will be more okay to changes in the way the game plays.
@@Jeff_the_Hobo What makes good players good is their ability to manage their military AND their economy at the same time, and you're okay with just eliminating half of that... I strongly disagree
@@thomas1644 If someone is unable to manage the economy, the supposed "auto create villagers" button will simply stall; so they would still have to manage the economy. So nothing really changes there, only the fight against the UI changes for good, giving more time to do things that should matter.
@@BelialTnTn Well no if auto farming is faster and more efficient than manually placing farms then then it doesn't make sense to use the old way if you wish to remain competitive. Auto farming is very close to using macros which is considered cheating. I'm not a fan of this idea either because farm placement is a thing that affects gameplay essentials ie. how much resources you're gathering. And the skill of allocating time to managing eco vs controlling army and doing so with efficient, precise and fast mouse movements is something which this this patch takes away from. I'd much rather see improvements to villager pathfinding so that if you send a bunch to mine or chop wood they'd spread out more evenly and would not get stuck constantly.
1 minute in The freaking goat talking about "its lowering the skill ceiling" They made tournaments to figure out whos ALLOWED to fight you in final man! Stop doing the magnus! Damn norwegians xD
I feel like I'm one of the old farts I used to scoff at for hating the farm queue... they're doing way too much. Farm placement is just a basic skill that separates complete noobs from someone who has played a few hours. I just wish they'd spend less time and resources on such mundane features and fix the bugs they consistently introduce haha
not a fan of this patching so much. we had a beautiful game that got a patch/update once every couple years. now we are a live service game that gets changes back and forth. that aoe hype before aoe4 put the beautiful aoe 2 in a bad place where devs put way to much into it. 1 thought out patch with player feedback before it goes live would be more than enough. but we just change things look what happens and change them back. we make everything automatic for new players ? the aoe player base has nothing to do with" new players". it is a rare event that someone picks up aoe 2 who had nothing to do with it before.
@@danieltoth9742 I completely agree, but at what point is it too much hand holding? I’m overreacting I think this feature honestly will be fine for the game but idk there is something important about being good at mechanics and macroing well.
@@dylanfalk3243 Farming currently takes more micro-management than all other aspects of your economy combined, to the point of being obnoxious (at least to me). We can easily shave some time off it, while still keeping most of the eco-management intact. I think it's a relatively minor change that matters mostly for newcomers who will be more likely to stay.
I don't agree with this. easy to see how eliminating the task of placing farms would benefit mindless noobs who don't want to even type a word out and pros with worn out wrists. thumbs down. I won't play this game if they introduce this horse shit and pick the number one player to try and sell it to us. f this
![Seungmin "그렇게, 천천히, 우리(As we are)" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/kAzmhLHePqU/mqdefault.jpg)
"Auto Micro, Auto Macro, Autofarming.. why dont we make Auto-Everything?" -
MbL, 21 Century
Just buff tower 🗼 rushing to compensate as a high-skill-but-annoying feature and he will be happy 😆.
Auto Micro, Auto Macro, Auto Everything, and welcome to Europa Universalis. 🙂
@@dvolkov76 That game has a lot of micro and macro if you want to play optimally.
@@UniDocs_Mahapushpa_Cyavana Yes of course. But I play EU games probably 20 years now and believe me, playing EU4 vs EU2 back then is like driving a modern car with adaptive cruise and line assist vs driving Ford Model T. And yes ancient car is enjoyable but you don't want it for everyday commute. )
Paradox did great job to automate a lot of routine actions in that game.
The farm auto placement will be amazing, as the drop-off... But I hope in less bugs 11
For the people in twitch chat who claimed that the math doesn't work for the time required to build a Sicilan Donjon. Here is how we are supposed to understand the 50% faster (which I agree is hard to know how to interpret) :
- With no bonus : I need 125s to build 1 donjon
- If I build 50% faster : I need 125s to build 1 donjon + 50% of another donjon
- Which means in 125s I can build 1.5 donjon
- So to build 1 donjon, I'll need 125/1.5 = 83.33s
The idea that the only actions players should focus on in a game is army management and all other actions should be reduced to a minimum is completely destroying aoe2.
If Viper shaved his head and grew the beard more he would look like a straight up viking
not shave but a buzz cut instead
Are you saying that he looks like a gay down viking?
If you refer to Hollywood fantasy vikings, then sure. If you talk about actual historical vikings, rather unlikely
@@pretentious_a_ness for the gains
Be aware of a Viking with glasses.
T90 farm should become the default for auto-farm placement
Auto-archery ranges placement on neutral islands as well
As I said it elsewhere, why don't they just switch the passive of Mongols with Nomads, and make the bonus HP thing the Castle Age tech. It makes more sense as an identity for the civ (otherwise no one really reaserches it in Casle Age anyway, while being there since the start could have some uses), and the HP bonus thing wouldn't be really OP if you actually need a Castle and then research it.
They should start the bonus at 15 percent and then take it to 30 percent with the Castle age ut.
That makes a lot of sense actually. That house-thing being a tech feels clunky, as it's very unpredictable if it pays off or not.
@@danieltoth9742,
15% . .. 60hp *1.15 = 69HP
Still good, an extra 2 hits in a scout duel... or to slay villagers in feudal.
@@aralornwolf3140 I meant that the baseline he suggested is only a 5% difference from the patch notes (20% vs 15%). I later realized his point wasn't that, but that the full effect should be locked behind the castle age unique tech. Silly me.
It's wonderful auto place farm!!!!
I remember playing aoe2k and they were no late game because you have to reseed each farm manually. The trick was have hot key for idle vil, spam it with right click and it reseed all farm in less than 10 seconds!
Thats the only way I play(ed) I feel like its just a part of the game... but now you have auto farm and auto scout and.... It feels... like going from a manual to an automatic car.
@@FacialVomitTurtleFightsGo play HD if you want the game to just stagnate.
@@FacialVomitTurtleFights auto scout is pretty useless, i almost never use it
@@FacialVomitTurtleFights play a game on aoe2k and you will understand that there is no strategy expect if you are a macro king. Want to make many vil? Spam many hotkey.
I thought the "Auto Dropoff" button they just added was a bad idea but after using it for a month i think it works out fantastic so im very open to the farm placement buff
I’ve clicked it exactly once, just to see it in action. After that one time, I’ve just let my villagers do their thing.
@@adeadfishdied Well as youre trying to get idle TC times down you will need to use it with civs like Aztecs or Georgians, I would practice with it cuz its a actually awesome! The best part about it is it doesnt erase queued actions so if you have a vill on one sheep and want him to go to a specific one next you can use the force-drop button and he wont forget his next sheep target
I haven't tried the farm placement for myself but it looks like it takes an additional action or two. Well worth it, if you want to lay down 10 farms in the late game.....IDK how useful in the early game when you're creating 1-2 farms at a time. Also in the late game farm placement matters less. I don't think it'll make a big difference.
I felt that mundane tasks should be fine to automate years ago when starcraft 2 automated many things and introduced lots of “QoL” changes to make those types of tasks “easier” so people could focus on the more “important” army micro. Having many years of time to reconsider, i have fully reversed that position. StarCraft 1 is so much more interesting to watch and play and a big part is the game making you choose between effective macro and effective micro. In 2 you can macro so easily that micro is everything, and at that point i found myself asking “why even have macro, why not just give players armies at the start and let them micro battle for the game?”
@@somebody700 the same is true in starcraft 1. In starcraft 1 you cant even select multiple buildings at the same time, so all those unit production buildings have to be manually selected and told to produce units one at a time, every time. Also micro is more difficult in that you can only select a maximum of 12 units at a time (im not trying to say one way or the other if its “overall more difficult, just more difficult in this one dimension). And additionally decisive wins are easier to achieve in starcraft 1. The average game is 10-15 minutes long. So yoir example of “small mistake could lose you the game easily” is even more true in SC1. SC1 forces you to pick each moment between 5 tasks you desperately need to accomplish, and no human can actually do all of them perfectly. So then players who are better at doing all the things are able to win on that basis, as opposed to the game leveling out the skill required to play so that only one skill decides every game.
@@somebody700 the design philosophy behind decisions like this are “bad and mid players will feel like theyre better artificially, which will make them enjoy the game more, at the expense of the skill ceiling of the game being lowered somewhat”. This one change wont really matter, i dont care about it specifically, but I hate the reasoning and what it suggests for future changes. Especially for ranked matches, which are intended to be competitive and reward skill and grinding out your abilities over time. If they want to add this type of option for custom games i dont care.
I agree with you. Too much automation and tinkering sterilizes games. It’s part of the flavor and souls of the game
@@somebody700 I know that's the argument, that it makes the game more strategy oriented, but I hard disagree. The strategy comes from resource management, the most important resource being "time", the T in RTS. Also I know you're talking about precision clicking in macro, which I also think is important, but obviously precision clicking is a huge part of RTS. Army movement, spellcasting (siege attack-ground in age), even boar luring (a macro-oriented task) requires precision. Placing walls or buildings for walls requires precision or they have gaps and become completely useless. At least with farms any idiot, myself included, can place them quickly. The skill comes from placing them both quickly and accurately. And the punishment for messing that up isn't instantly dying to cavalry like with placing walls, but instead just having a slightly worse economy over time. We could automate all those things away but it would make for a terrible and boring game.
The problems with sc2 as compared to brood war have nothing to do with macro though. The issues are purely born of the ease with which the controls allow degenerate levels of spell caster micro which was impossible in brood war, and the fact that was warpgate and its consequences have been a disaster for protoss balance.
T90 and MBL are both going to have something to say about this...
I think T90 does NOT want to talk about it ... but we will see 🤣🤣🤣
Z to enable Ratha's melee mode and Shift + Z for ranged mode
Huge T90 buff
IMO Elephants should take a tech to convert, like siege or monks. Like... **Dispensation**: 175G, 60S research time, 'can convert elephants'. That way you actually have a chance to use a few early on.
Autofarms means MUCH less clicking and tedium per game. It’s good for the wrists too
you still have to click the same amount, you just don't have to move your cursor around.
@@NoraNoita Actually the number of clicks will be changed in practice. It is just question of what way since people can afford the time to place less farms at lower wood count, but they also have ability to place more farms before having to look elsewhere on map.
No it means more clicking and faster clicking but less mouse movement
@@NoraNoita true I guess I meant easier clicks
the way i see the elephant MS buff: militia-line is now officially the slowest non-siege-unit in the game (together with elephants)
I've always wanted this change with farms, this is great, didn't know they had it in aoe4!
As a low Elo Player this will save me literal minutes of farm placing time per match, can't wait! :D
This is perfect for my 500pop BF games where i need 200 farmers for my persian elephant spam
"why dont we auto play as well?"
-- Otto the Prophet has seen it through
genuinely though this is a step too much lol. what's next, auto-lure deer with scout?
Auto kite with archer units would be awesome
NO PLEASE NO@@iamrapidrocket
@@collaideHow about villagers auto-mining gold after building a mining camp?
@@adeadfishdied What's the issue with it? Entirely different situation which I'm not advocating for lol
The Bengalis' changes are meant to nerf their Elephant Archers without nerfing the Rathas.
I think the biggest problem for scorpion is how they stack - one might survive a cannon hit now, but if one cannon can hit five of them with one shot that's still brutal.
I love the auto farm placement, it's a good QoL feature.
My army always disapears in 5 secs farming time.
That update is awesome for me 11
Adding more automatic features to remove "mundane" tasks is a very slippery slope. I'd say queuing up villagers is a pretty mundane task... should they add a button to the TC to automatically make a villager every 25 seconds if you have enough food? How about auto-deer push with the scout?
i agree so much, at some point the skill of AOE2 will start shifting from "juggling many things" into a micro-clown-fiesta
@@collaide THIS! This is exactly the problem, each time they made these movies, the game becomes more micro-intensive (which was never the point with this series)...
@@domingossn Yep. And the micro that exists becomes more and more military focused. No more pros and cons between focusing on eco efficiency or military micro.
I can see what you're saying, but is farm placement in particular truly such a precious part of Age of Empires? It takes a lot of precise micro for what it does, and you're stuck doing it for almost the entire game. That's a huge chunk of time spent on this one mechanic, and even _with_ auto placement, you still need to manage your economy yourself. I don't think it's a bad change.
@@danieltoth9742 that's the thing though. Players who are good at farm placement and doing it quickly are able to free up time to micro elsewhere. This game is about managing your military AND your economy. Is auto farm gonna break the game? No. And quite frankly, if they stopped here, I would be perfectly happy. But if they continue down this path, this game will eventually turn into something ugly that feels very different to play.
This is a straight up nerf to poles
I like this change honestly. My computer somehow lags and the farms arent placed as fast as i want so this would be great!
Viper, imagine how many more quickwalls you can place with all this free time from quick placing farms
There's no way Berbers are becoming a top 2 water civ just because of one military bonus that boosts micro potential. If 10% movement speed is so powerful they'd be pick/ban on every fast water map already.
They should buff Fish 🐟 Traps as well with auto placement to keep the water 🌊 balanced and strategically important.
It will be even more important for Fish Traps, because it would also mean fishing ships will finally be able to be tasked to fish traps in groups.
I would 10'000% want the ability to SLIDE farms down in a line then make nearby mills followed by surrounding them as normal... my Pinwheels are great & I'll probably keep doing those.
But in the previous few vids they didn't tackle if the farms would be placed in the pinwheel & then secondly how any trees or buildings might screw up the placements for what you'd want (e.g. you'd end up with 2 fewer farm placements near a T.C. due to inefficient 'Auto'-placements.
You can do that already if you don't mind being labelled as a cheater: use macros.
It's a nerf for Malay cause the gold cost is increased by 4g.
It's only 10 food so I don't think dev should nerf Malay elephant.
That last line was so ominous.
Roman scorps about to be insane
Did they fix shift-click fishtraps?
Decision making should be hard and constrained, that’s what makes elo valuable. If you make everything easy so people can just focus on “making the correct decisions” you’re making the game much more one dimensional. The game has lasted 20 years without “auto” features.. Just don’t screw it up.
Deberían arreglar el bug que impide que un grupo de pesqueros construyan las trampas para peces seguidas en lugar de estancarse en la primera 😢
I watch pro games and never see elephants. I also still never see infantry, Gambesons did nothing and they gave up trying.
autofarm placement is a terrible thing. Game is all about multitask, economy is a part of it
I'm old enough to remember farm bug
I love scorpions❤, cheaper upgrade is always welcome
The constant updates on DE are superficial until they fix the real bugs that they keep recreating with their "patches"
Easier basics = lower entry level = more appealing to casual gamers = more players.
I think this is the basic thought process for the aoe2 devs. But I'm not one of em so idk. Maybe I'm talking smack.
I don't like the farm update, mostly as it seems like the macro aid features will never stop being added. Being efficient with eco shouldn't be seen as less worth than micro skills, otherwise why aren't we playing a moba
really sad seeing how many people are supporting it. skill expression in a real time strategy IS a thing. choosing what is important to focus on, and how well you can do that under pressure is all a part of the game.
But I want to place t90 farms!?
Are you kidding me??? This is game-breaking. Now, T90 will be the best player. This handicap was MADE for him!!!
With the introduction of auto drop off and then you talking about auto farm placement. It sounds like you only have to look towards Xbox to see what they can do and what could be introduced to pc players. Auto drop off was on controller from day one and so is auto farm placement. Would be interesting if they added auto ECO. It wouldn't be a bad thing because none of the good controller players use it and so I doubt good pc players would but it would help new players get a feel for how to play.
please no farm auto placement. takes away our individuality in how we play the game
The only saving grace of Bengalis was the Elephant Archer and the devs took that away too. What a joke of a balancing.
T90 gonna overtake The Viper now 😢
Grüße aus Gossa ❤ Abonniert ! 😊
Autofarming ??!! Fix the pathfinding!
@ilyuumLooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooL.
RIP T90 farms😢
but but... my ocd! what about my perfect squares!?!
I wouldnt be surprised if they eventually add auto-queuing villagers. Changes like this will make the game more fun for lower-level players but will decrease higher level game depth making the once profound ocean become shallower and shallower...
From a viewer perspective auto farm is a positive only.
Why?
@@AoLIronmaiden Not everyone loves watching someone place farms.
@@squashedkebab6927 ah yeah, I see what you mean now. That's a fair point!
Oliphantos meta roosh IS cuuming
The fact that we're seriously discussing if auto-farms should be a thing says A LOT about how the community doesn't want the game to change.
Reminds me of the slightest changes in Pokemon games being met with outraged hostility.
Exactly.
This is how niche communities bring stagnation and death to the very thing they are formed around, sabotaging and fighting any progress.
Big part of the reason why RTS genre is barely alive right now, being stuck in design conventions made in 90s while other gaming genres get modernized and become more comfortable and fun to play, reducing the entry barrier and focusing on the interactions between players instead of fighting the game UI.
@@olegdragora2557 Which is why "boomer shooters" is also a subgenre for modern FPS that try to emulate the feeling of 90s FPS.
@@FloosWorld_AoE Which is stupid, the good thing about Quake 1-3 and Doom 2 is the usage of movement which was redesigned in newer games for the sake of semi-realism, which kills so much fun. Now you have pseudo fans of old games who don't understand this and fuel yet another meme genre, when real fans want to see a step forward not a step backwards.
@@FloosWorld_AoE This very niche subgenre emulates mostly aesthetics and arcadeness.
It still incorporates modern game design achievements and quality of life features.
It doesn't force players into clunky control schemes from 90s, doesn't use clunky and counter-intuitive mechanics from 90s, and doesn't make the life of the player painful just for the sake of old times.
There is always a market for nostalgia and there is always a conservative demographic.
It doesn't mean the progress should stop and we should defend bad design decisions.
I really dislike the auto-farm placements. I feel like quality of life changes are good generally, but this is where I draw the line tbh.
A very real tradeoff for using too much micro in fights is that your economy likely won't be as efficient. If you don't believe that tradeoff should exist, just automate more things until you don't need to manage your eco at all and it's just a micro-intensive war game with no real eco aspect? Genuinely!?
This isn't just a quality of life change. This is also a GAMEPLAY change. The skill of RTS is to juggle many different things. And some tasks that are tedious, for instance being able to queue 5 of the same units with one hotkey is GOOD, because it's a mundane, repetitive, and useless task. If it didn't exist, you would just sit in a menu and click the same button 5 times.
Placing farms is different. It's a "building" that takes up grid space in the gameplay area. This is way too much. It's directly automating GAMEPLAY vs automating something external in the game. I honestly never approved of autoscout either and the only reason I think it's acceptable is because it's so bad at efficiently scouting. Scouting genuinely was a skill, and making sure you scout the entire map in late-game was a skill that you had to use. I was also on the fence about resource-dropoff but I think that's about doing two shift-clicks vs just one click so I think it's acceptable.
I know it's a meme, but genuinely, what's next? Auto lure dear button for your scout cavalary? Autoscout function enabled on herdables? Make villagers run back to the closest TC if they attack a boar? Have an autoque where you can prioritize one unit, like villager, and then knights for instance, and it makes sure there's always exactly ONE in the queue if possible? Autowall, where it builds fortifications between map edge, water, and woodlines in a circle around your TC? Auto-rebuild lumber camps? (wow this one they did but only for 2 civs lol). Auto-build barracks when halfway up to feudal with an idle/straggler villager?
auto-ping on the minimap if an enemy is visible? auto-onager-cut? auto-shortwall woodline? military stances for villagers starting in dark age so you don't need to click so much when attacking with them? auto-quickwall your villager?
auto-queue fishing ship button on dock as soon as you reach 75 wood? auto-build castle to protect your eco in late imp? auto-rewall behind existing wall? auto unlock gate if an ally comes near it? auto-collect relic button on monks? ETC ETC.
Auto build orders?
Otto farms, Otto macro, Otto the Great
On a serious note, try single player where you select AI as player 1. It is literally auto everything, while still letting you give commands to units. This lets you see all the places where "auto" makes your civ perform worse. I did this in HD, where a lot of the worse performance was from using 'town size attack' as a general method of spamming units towards a location without formations limited to the slowest unit, so I don't know what it's like in DE, but as long as the extreme AI can be beaten by a 1400+ rated player, it's making mistakes.
Woah there, take it easy, this definitely won't destroy the game. It automates precision for a mundane task, which normally takes up an unnecessarily huge chunk of the game. What it does NOT do is automate your eco-management. And you will still spend a LOT of time placing farms, since each villager requires their own, unlike literally every other resource in the game (except fish traps). This change just sacrifices mechanical clutter to allow for more strategy, micro, base-expansion, or anything else you can slot into all the time this frees up. I think it's a good tradeoff.
Auto farm is horrible idea.
more limited viper please 🙏
Hey that's me!
Auto farm: quality of life, it's nice but whatever
Battle elephants: this is mostly for Khmer and Malay, only civs with viable castle age elephants, and also the Khmer speed bonus needs higher base speed (especially after nerf from 15% -> 10%)
Scorpions: more hp is nice, melee armor doesn't matter, they should be faster
Towers: yeah they should cost more wood and less stone. Towers are mostly feudal and castle play, priority resource is wood, and they shouldn't compete as much with castles for stone.
Demos: finally, they always should've been better against buildings
And the continued cycle of nothing changes continues.
10:40 "not a big deal-though" khm...
For casual plebs like me and my friends, auto farms are nice.
Autofarms!!!
pixled viper
lol auto everything 😂 let me just start matches where bots play against each other
This will push ppl way not bring new players to aoe2.
"Auto-farming will free up time for other activities" - Every AI Big-Tech CEO before firing all their employees.
AUTO FARM PLACEMENT HORRIBLE
As someone who struggles with the macro stuff, Auto reseeding was good, but this is a bit too far IMO. Besides, why are they focused on adding random features into such an old game. They should focus on improving current experience and balance changes strictly. This kind of stuff should happen in their newer game where people will be more okay to changes in the way the game plays.
I approve of any changes that lowers the skill floor of the game.
To hell with any whiners saying it lowers the skill ceiling.
What if they added an "automatically create villagers" button to the TC?
@@thomas1644 Absolutely. That's one of the biggest things newer players struggle with.
@@Jeff_the_Hobo What makes good players good is their ability to manage their military AND their economy at the same time, and you're okay with just eliminating half of that... I strongly disagree
@@thomas1644 If someone is unable to manage the economy, the supposed "auto create villagers" button will simply stall; so they would still have to manage the economy. So nothing really changes there, only the fight against the UI changes for good, giving more time to do things that should matter.
spotted the clueless noob whose opinion should be discarded. Unfortunately, the devs are also clueless noobs just like you.
I'm not a fan of the auto farm placement
seems to me you can just do it the old way in that case.
@@BelialTnTn Well no if auto farming is faster and more efficient than manually placing farms then then it doesn't make sense to use the old way if you wish to remain competitive. Auto farming is very close to using macros which is considered cheating. I'm not a fan of this idea either because farm placement is a thing that affects gameplay essentials ie. how much resources you're gathering. And the skill of allocating time to managing eco vs controlling army and doing so with efficient, precise and fast mouse movements is something which this this patch takes away from. I'd much rather see improvements to villager pathfinding so that if you send a bunch to mine or chop wood they'd spread out more evenly and would not get stuck constantly.
@@BelialTnTn Braindead individual
1 minute in
The freaking goat talking about "its lowering the skill ceiling"
They made tournaments to figure out whos ALLOWED to fight you in final man!
Stop doing the magnus! Damn norwegians xD
I feel like I'm one of the old farts I used to scoff at for hating the farm queue... they're doing way too much. Farm placement is just a basic skill that separates complete noobs from someone who has played a few hours.
I just wish they'd spend less time and resources on such mundane features and fix the bugs they consistently introduce haha
I think if we hold shift the game should play itself at 3k elo level.
not a fan of this patching so much. we had a beautiful game that got a patch/update once every couple years. now we are a live service game that gets changes back and forth. that aoe hype before aoe4 put the beautiful aoe 2 in a bad place where devs put way to much into it. 1 thought out patch with player feedback before it goes live would be more than enough. but we just change things look what happens and change them back. we make everything automatic for new players ? the aoe player base has nothing to do with" new players". it is a rare event that someone picks up aoe 2 who had nothing to do with it before.
EVERYTHING AUTO!!!
Otto scout, otto farm, otto farm placement, otto win!
Forgotten empires creatively run so dry they've had to unironically rip from MBL's rant
Auto place farms is the most de thing ever so lame. You guys should try playing broodwar
Not every RTS needs to be like Brood War though.
@@danieltoth9742 I completely agree, but at what point is it too much hand holding? I’m overreacting I think this feature honestly will be fine for the game but idk there is something important about being good at mechanics and macroing well.
@@dylanfalk3243 Farming currently takes more micro-management than all other aspects of your economy combined, to the point of being obnoxious (at least to me). We can easily shave some time off it, while still keeping most of the eco-management intact. I think it's a relatively minor change that matters mostly for newcomers who will be more likely to stay.
I don't agree with this. easy to see how eliminating the task of placing farms would benefit mindless noobs who don't want to even type a word out and pros with worn out wrists. thumbs down. I won't play this game if they introduce this horse shit and pick the number one player to try and sell it to us. f this
New balance changes, same complete garbage villager pathing