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Can you do a video on the fear mongering of the other chemical sunscreens, such as the vast internet information that claims they all are endocrine disruptors. I saw a lot on homoloslate and avobenzone. Can you explain the recent FDA research that showed chemical sunscreens are absorbed in higher amount than previously thought and that it may be dangerous. They asked manufacturers do do their own safety studies but from what I know none have done so yet. I am confused about this information and whether these sunscreens are bad or not.
@@kaceyisdead Perhaps in culturology or similar field, or some other field (cyber science, computer science, and such) specificaly referring to some aspect of blog per se, or if it's referring to analysis of contet of the blog, it would be fine. But then blogs would be an object of research, and not a cited paper that proves of disaproves something (like research of review).
@@mislavhilc Research methods 101, "prove" is a dirty word in science. You don't have to devalue other areas where research takes place and then make yourself look like a fool at the same time. A blog wouldn't be allowed as a citation for any *academic* research paper.
It’s 2 years later. Did you defend your dissertation??? I’m working toward a PhD and I need some encouragement 😂 Also, I’m in Psychology, in learning and cognition, is science without the chemistry and biology (did plenty of that in undergrad, thanks😂). My professors would die if I cited a blog post and ignored all the actual scientific studies I have access to. They would die and I would never graduate for various reasons.
ofc you can't admit that your education might be pointless if anything controversial will turn out true, there's as much corruption in science as any other, and your degree is not a defense
Lol skincare drama hit different. Being cited as a propaganda machine in a peer reviewed paper, and your channel out of all of them, is honestly very funny
My family's friend had skin cancers removed from both ears and his nose. However, the cancers kept spreading. This poor man ended up losing his battle against metastatic cancers after losing both ears and most of his nose. Just wear sunscreen and cover up. It's not just about preventing wrinkles and freckles.
It’s a scary world that some people are more scared of sunscreen than the sun. I’m not talking too much about the video but I was arguing with someone on ig saying that my sunscreen would give me cancer. I genuinely hope that if they aren’t wearing sunscreen they are covering up well every day. Skin cancer is no joke. I’m sorry to hear about your family friend, my condolences.
@@helenavasic9989 from personal experience, people that argue against using sunscreen, are also usually very "pro-sun" (i didnt know how else to put it lol). like the people I know will go out of their way to be in direct sunlight, exposing as much skin as possible with no protection :/
@@rita.itsa.m Interesting I didn’t know it was such a big thing. I gave up arguing though I said my peace it’s up to them to take it or not. I don’t know if I was just supposed to ignore those type of people but I didnt want people taking advice from them. Yeah it’s probably that but their claim was baseless I asked them to site their study and they didn’t do it it’s clear they have a anti science/I’m right mindset (similar to anti-vaxx I suppose)
I personally like my sunscreen propaganda from highly educated professionals. Thanks lab muffin beauty science, I couldn't spread fact-based sunscreen propaganda without you.
This paper sounds like a group project I had to do where my group picked a bad topic but they refused to change the topic so they manipulated the sources... we got a passing mark 😪
The first thing I learned about science is that scientists are just liable to be biased and irrational as the rest of us. That's why following the scientific method is so crucial.
The humor on this channel is unmatched. The snakes were killing me then I got to 19:23 & almost spit out my drink from laughter. As someone born an over-the-top exaggerated caricature of a human, I thoroughly admire those who have a mastery of this kind of understated humor. Came here to learn, which I definitely did, and wound up laughing way more than I would at a purely comedic video with zero educational value.
Saw that article. The journal is Chemical Research in Toxicology. As a doctor (dermatologist), its usefulness in the field of oncology parallels that of the new york post.
Just finished watching your video, good job on poisoning our brains with study-based/fact-based propaganda and that toxic, toxic chemical called “education”.
It makes me so sad !! This study was kind of support by Pierre Fabre that just came out with a new Filter Triasorb ! and was used in the Avene's new sunscreen...and they highlighted "the sunscreen is octocrylen free" ! This is basically a marketing based on fear ! Very upseting because i am sure anyone would be excited about a new filter and they just had to mess it up !! I mean WHY? WHY ?
My impression is that Pierre Fabre doesn't seem to have been involved in the study itself (although they probably capitalised on it), but some French industry people seem to be very convinced that they were, and they probably know better than me 🤷🏻♀️ But Pierre Fabre's continued collaborations with this lab after publishing this paper makes me question their scientific credibility.
@@Jenna-xt7ni yep. Like omg if you don't use our product, you will look ugly and then you won't find love and no one will hire you. You will become a laughing stock of the society 🙄
Well, that intro and those snake emojis made my day. By the way... I saw Byrdie list you in their “Clean Beauty Heroes” thing. They called you a “clean beauty OG” and I was shocked. Have they ever even watched your content? You are the antithesis of clean beauty pseudoscience/quackery fearmongering. I just found it really weird. Anyhow, always a treat when you upload and bless us with science!
I saw that too and even messaged her on IG about it! Couldn’t stop laughing at how ironic it was 😂 Side note: there’s another article in their “Eco/Clean Beauty” series they’re doing this month and it tries to define what clean beauty is to them because they said they know there is no set definition and it just perpetuates even more myths and even cites the EWG website 🤦🏻♀️
This feels like if I, a phycisist (phd in environmental sciences and solar spectroscopy) would start publishing about how blue light from computers is toxic, just because I am tired of programming.
@Lab Muffin Beauty Science it was presented so perfectly, it made me ugly laugh 😉 I am so frustrated for you I started reading about defamation rights. Im so sorry that you had to endure this, but the way you handled it is admirable
Thank you so much for bursting this shady fearmongering study. I am French and I heard about the study when I asked for sunscreen recommendations and a Twitter mutual mentioned it, which made me look up for a video from you about it, but at the time you didn’t have one. Glad you’ve ended up making one! Also the nerves of them quoting you as propaganda????
Wow. What a thorough and classy refutation of this bizarre paper. You are the only beauty blogger I follow anymore because you always come with receipts - keep the propaganda coming 🐍🐍
“There seems to be pattern in how the authors are selecting and presenting the information” Academia, ladies and gents. Love your work, Michelle 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
@A C yes, if someone would rather publish a lot of papers rather than a few that has significant data. How is it "silly" to be suspicious at those types of people whose main agenda is recognition?
@A C i never said they were mutually exclusive. I never said those papers are irrelevant. I said be suspicious in people whose main agenda is recognition and publishing rather than actual research. I dont need you to explain how grants and citations work to me. I have published my fair share of papers and received national funding in my country WITHOUT having a lot of citations to my name but because of the significance of my research. Not every academician wants to get their name out there. The pressure from academia that someone publish a lot is what dilutes research.
@A C anyway, that's my point. As someone with firsthand experience with the types of people who love getting published. These people who work with younger scientists, researchers, and doctors and make them do the leg work while they just sit back and accumulate the citations. Anyone who has enough experience in research knows this.
Yep! In France, I saw quite a lot of magazine articles based on this study. They mostly just said "don't use a sunscreen you started using last year!", though, which is actually pretty good advice if we put the benzophenone stuff aside.
Yeah from talking to some French beauty people (Cosmetics Anatomy, Bonnie Garner) the media started by freaking out about cancer, then slowly calmed down to the sensible advice.
I'm a natural-born cynic and skeptic and I usually assume these kinds of studies have some kind of angle. I appreciate that there are educated, intelligent, well-spoken people (like Michelle) who can see through the agenda. We should all apply this level of scrutiny to these "studies."
Octocrylene is heavily relied on in the US market to stabilize Avobenzone, so it would be detrimental for the US market to ban octocrylene, also L'Oreal seems to LOVE this UV filter, they use it very commonly even in Europe where they have access to many other UV filters to stabilize avobenzone including their very own 2 mexoryl UV filters
It’s also a very poor UVB filter, like only 1 SPF unit per %. Due to the ban by some places on Oxybenzone & Octinoxate, using Octocrylene at high % is the only way to get an SPF above 30
@@amydearing9866 I wouldn’t say it’s the only way, there are many technologies to boost SPF & maximize performance of UV filters other than just UV filters & their percentages
@@amydearing9866 Actually a good example of a poor UVB filter is Homosalate lol at pretty high percentages it provides very little SPF, i feel like they mostly use it as a solvent to help dissolve other UV filters
Seriously. I was reading the methods and it felt like it was written by a freshman college student. It was just clunky and not concise. You don't literally need to write out in explicit detail each step of the procedure.
That intro deserves an award. Sadly, all I can give is a Like and some friendly Comment Engagement. Cheers! Edit: I got to the middle dsjfksdjfkldjsklfjdslk I'm dead, I'm slain, someone call me an ambulance
I honestly nearly choked on my breakfast when you said “haters gonna hate hate hate” and then the clip of you dousing yourself in sunscreen almost sent me to the maker 🤣🤣🤣 Great video!
Thanks Michelle, Im a dermatologist(in Argentina) and I love your videos because you go deep in the methods they obtein results. I have read the papers on benzophenone but i didnt know the afiliation of the author with Pierre Fabre. Many labs had taken of benzophenone and octinosate from their formulas. Thanks a lots! Im going to read one of the other paper that you cite aboit Hawai.
This made my PhD-writing heart so happy and sad at the same time. What a brilliant take down! It was great to see you dismantle the paper with surgical precision. Keep up the great work!
I'm just speechless at that last bit... The researcher is like "hey this research says that octocrylene is bad! Go an update your video!" What were they expecting?? for Michelle to go like "understandable! I will do so right away!!!" Uuugh the disrespect 😤 Amazing video by the way 👌
That’s such a shame that this got through the peer review process. If I’d been a peer reviewer, “propaganda” would at least warrant checking out the corresponding citations. At the very least, I typically scan the reference section to check on consistent formatting.
ngl, this paper looks a lot like my last minute essays in terms of citation sources and the info picking because I only skimmed through the papers I cited
CA native here. I don't know of any one who even really gives a second thought to Prop 65 warnings. At best, it annoys us when something we want to order by mail can't be shipped here because of it, even if it's a product you can get anywhere else in the States.
I love the way you handled this. It demonstrates clearly the difference between someone who changes the narrative to suit their purpose and someone who draws conclusions based on research and evidence. As they say, it does not matter what they say as long as they spell your name right 😉
hey there, from one scientist to another, I have a PhD in biochmeistry and currently doing my M.D, you have your PhD in chemistry. You are on the right path girl. Don't give up !!!
This is a great video and thank you for making it! I recently fell in love with a zinc and octocrylene sunscreen after saying goodbye to my Purito, Dear Klairs, and Krave Beauty sunscreens (forever in my heart ♥️). What I had seen online about octocrylene seemed bad but I wasn't sure if I should believe it. It's like you read my mind! Thank you!
You helped me convince my friends to wear sunscreen everyday! I always show them your videos. Even though they only want to wear it because of wrinkles (oh well), I’m happy their skin is healthier now 😎 with support of your videos!!
You are a blessing! This kind of idea laundered nonsense is impossible to dislodge from the common conversation without the kind of thorough, carefully considered, painstaking work that you just did in this video; no wonder, then, that it's so uncommon for us to bask in a refutation this even-handed. Too much work involved, so scientists, preoccupied with the work that's already on their plate, usually don't bother to directly address other people's jabber. Looks like they were poking the wrong scientist in this case! You were all brains and class! Thank you for your approach, it earned you another subscriber today!
That was masterful, Michelle. It was like an episode of “Line of Duty: Beauty Edition” - disinformation, shady characters, questionable associations, suspect motives, complex conspiracy.... And you, skillfully dismantling it all like Arnott and Fleming combined. 💪🏻😂
I don't have much interest in skincare products, and I don't live in a part of the world where I need to wear sunscreen very often. But your channel is so, so refreshing for showing a rational approach to reviewing often daunting research papers and showing people how to cut through the marketing spin and dubious motivation of some authors and inform themselves instead. Please keep up the great work!
Your intro and outro had me on the ground! This video has everything I love about your channel, the LOLs, the precise and unbiased takedown of stupidity and BIG LEARNING.
You are literally my role model 🥸 I had a presentation on sunscreens in an undergrad chem class and you were one of the main sources 😂 I love my propaganda source
Thank you! Without someone qualified like you breaking things down in a way that is easily understandable to the average consumer many would just believe whatever information is handed to them. Your professionalism and integrity is refreshing.
This video totally made my day 😂. As an author of the review paper you pointed out, I totally know these guys definitely like to buck scientific consensus in all fields they dabble in🤣. Great video!
Michelle now that 5% Topical Spironolactone is finally available through Apostrophe in combination with Tretinoin, can you please talk about topical spironolactone and the data available on it?
Hoping to one day attain the level of scrutiny that you have when reading scientific papers! This video reminded me of a group project I did in bachelors where our group half assed the literature review and manipulated sources to get our point across. We thought we were being sneaky 100 but the professor saw right through it and exposed us in front of the entire class 💀 needless to say, as someone who now wants to go into academia, I learned to never use such shoddy practices ever again. Maybe the authors of this paper will learn the same.
I am so ashamed. I fell for this and there are so many sites that list a lot of chemical sunscreen ingredients that ruin the reefs. I didnt think there could be a thing like "big sunscreen"
Michelle you are my science nerd, fact base, beauty sorceress crush. I can't get enough of you. I listen to your podcasts over and over again like I am getting ready for the finals. I got my esthetic license 11 years ago and you help me stay relevant. Keep on keeping on. ❤
I personally hate Octocrylene (for my skin) because it stings my skin badly and I always have to search for a long time to find a sunscreen without it (and Niacinamide which my skin also hates). But I would never come to the conclusion, that no one should use it because of me or those shady studies. If your skin is ok with it it's a very effective sunscreen filter that saves you from getting cancer.
I like how you updated the "About Me" section in your description box, to include "propaganda source". *The dedication* I definitely subscribed to the right channel, y'all.
Great video and research as always! 😁 I appreciate that someone is looking into the safety of compounds used in cosmetics, since chemistry and biology are so complex, and sometimes ingredients have secondary effects difficult to predict. I don't like when scientist say an ingredient is safe, but barely any studies were made to confirm that 😅 But then, studies that try to prove something is bad are weird and sus 🤦🏻♀️ that's kind of frustrating. Can someone please make some decent studies 😅 And damn...that propaganda stuff was harsh 🙄 I hope you'll recover from the trauma soon😅 Bring back the 🐍🐍🐍 in other videos too please! 😚
I am allergic agains octocrylen (in the past it was really hart to find a sunscreen without this ingredient) so I am so happy that suddanly this ingredient has a bad reputation and is removed from a lot of sunscreens in the drugstore. But my body reaction on this molecule doesn’t make it bad in general. like some people are allergic agains peanuts doesn’t mean they have to be avoided by everyone. Ococrylen is an effective sun filter and I am glad that you look objectively on papers to help consumers make an educated purchases.
I noticed a couple of years ago that Octocrylene actually irritates my skin. The CVS Clear Zinc SPF 50 always burned my skin so bad and I do know that Octocrylene was one of the two filters. After a week of use my moisture barrier was practically rubbed raw
Damn Michelle! This is such a great breakdown and analysis of the paper. I just did a uni assessment about critically analysing information sources and you've really shown me how a pro does it.
I love that you show people how to be more critical about what they're reading. Regarding your comment about scientists staying within a certain specialty, this is usually true in academia but not always the case in industry, especially in times of economic difficulties. For example, between ~2008-2011, there were massive layoffs in the pharmaceutical industry worldwide with entire facilities closing. This led to a huge influx of scientists applying for any available research job and many scientists (including chemists) changing fields in order to get a job. Now, when HR sends me applications, it's not uncommon to see changes in specialties, especially in middle to upper research positions. Just thought you'd be interested.
@@LabMuffinBeautyScience I thought you might have been too young to know that this can happen. Thanks for replying. I really appreciate how well you explain critical evaluations of peer-reviewed articles. :)
"If you like poisoning your brain with education..." "big delicious propaganda..." So on point and yet hilarious I had to stick around for every last word of propagandary goodness
Really excellent video that could be used to show people well-explained examples of common ways the "clean beauty" crowd misinterprets/misrepresents research
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thank you!
"brought to you by Big Learning" 😂😂
Hey whats your linkedin URL?
oh and thank you for the content much appreciated :)
Can you do a video on the fear mongering of the other chemical sunscreens, such as the vast internet information that claims they all are endocrine disruptors. I saw a lot on homoloslate and avobenzone. Can you explain the recent FDA research that showed chemical sunscreens are absorbed in higher amount than previously thought and that it may be dangerous. They asked manufacturers do do their own safety studies but from what I know none have done so yet. I am confused about this information and whether these sunscreens are bad or not.
Molecular geneticist here, nearly finished with my PhD. The fact that they cited a blog post in an academic research paper 😂😂😂
That wouldn't even be allowed in courses for my Associate degree 😂🤦
@@kaceyisdead Perhaps in culturology or similar field, or some other field (cyber science, computer science, and such) specificaly referring to some aspect of blog per se, or if it's referring to analysis of contet of the blog, it would be fine. But then blogs would be an object of research, and not a cited paper that proves of disaproves something (like research of review).
@@mislavhilc Research methods 101, "prove" is a dirty word in science. You don't have to devalue other areas where research takes place and then make yourself look like a fool at the same time. A blog wouldn't be allowed as a citation for any *academic* research paper.
It’s 2 years later. Did you defend your dissertation??? I’m working toward a PhD and I need some encouragement 😂 Also, I’m in Psychology, in learning and cognition, is science without the chemistry and biology (did plenty of that in undergrad, thanks😂). My professors would die if I cited a blog post and ignored all the actual scientific studies I have access to. They would die and I would never graduate for various reasons.
ofc you can't admit that your education might be pointless if anything controversial will turn out true, there's as much corruption in science as any other, and your degree is not a defense
I love how you dragged these people but managed to do it while remaining classy, elegant, professional and eloquent 🤣
Pure class!!
Lol skincare drama hit different. Being cited as a propaganda machine in a peer reviewed paper, and your channel out of all of them, is honestly very funny
My family's friend had skin cancers removed from both ears and his nose. However, the cancers kept spreading. This poor man ended up losing his battle against metastatic cancers after losing both ears and most of his nose. Just wear sunscreen and cover up. It's not just about preventing wrinkles and freckles.
It’s a scary world that some people are more scared of sunscreen than the sun. I’m not talking too much about the video but I was arguing with someone on ig saying that my sunscreen would give me cancer. I genuinely hope that if they aren’t wearing sunscreen they are covering up well every day. Skin cancer is no joke. I’m sorry to hear about your family friend, my condolences.
Girl, THIS SCARED ME. Now I'm gonna re-apply 10 times a day, not a jk.
@@helenavasic9989 from personal experience, people that argue against using sunscreen, are also usually very "pro-sun" (i didnt know how else to put it lol). like the people I know will go out of their way to be in direct sunlight, exposing as much skin as possible with no protection :/
@@rita.itsa.m Interesting I didn’t know it was such a big thing. I gave up arguing though I said my peace it’s up to them to take it or not. I don’t know if I was just supposed to ignore those type of people but I didnt want people taking advice from them. Yeah it’s probably that but their claim was baseless I asked them to site their study and they didn’t do it it’s clear they have a anti science/I’m right mindset (similar to anti-vaxx I suppose)
@@helenavasic9989 I understand, I often don't know how to counter-argue with people like these because it seems like they just won't listen 😅
I personally like my sunscreen propaganda from highly educated professionals. Thanks lab muffin beauty science, I couldn't spread fact-based sunscreen propaganda without you.
Yessss !!
Absolutely 😌🤍💗🤍😌
This paper sounds like a group project I had to do where my group picked a bad topic but they refused to change the topic so they manipulated the sources... we got a passing mark 😪
💀💀💀
SAME, except we removed variables and my mates came up with a wild conclusion despite the data showing something else..
The first thing I learned about science is that scientists are just liable to be biased and irrational as the rest of us. That's why following the scientific method is so crucial.
Your intro!!! 💀 I would definitely buy Propaganda Queen merch... just saying... 😁
Me too! 🤣❤
SAME 😂
The humor on this channel is unmatched. The snakes were killing me then I got to 19:23 & almost spit out my drink from laughter. As someone born an over-the-top exaggerated caricature of a human, I thoroughly admire those who have a mastery of this kind of understated humor.
Came here to learn, which I definitely did, and wound up laughing way more than I would at a purely comedic video with zero educational value.
Definitely count me in on that merch, too! 😁
Saaaaaame
Saw that article. The journal is Chemical Research in Toxicology. As a doctor (dermatologist), its usefulness in the field of oncology parallels that of the new york post.
Man, I got obsessed with the skincare community and appreciated that it wasn’t as dramatic as the beauty community. Wth is this 😭
Just finished watching your video, good job on poisoning our brains with study-based/fact-based propaganda and that toxic, toxic chemical called “education”.
Yeah but when we have drama it's sometimes peer-reviewed 🤗
@@LabMuffinBeautyScience slay queen
Thank god for science.
Wait no don't press sen
@@eafafeayd 😭😭😭
It makes me so sad !! This study was kind of support by Pierre Fabre that just came out with a new Filter Triasorb ! and was used in the Avene's new sunscreen...and they highlighted "the sunscreen is octocrylen free" ! This is basically a marketing based on fear ! Very upseting because i am sure anyone would be excited about a new filter and they just had to mess it up !! I mean WHY? WHY ?
My impression is that Pierre Fabre doesn't seem to have been involved in the study itself (although they probably capitalised on it), but some French industry people seem to be very convinced that they were, and they probably know better than me 🤷🏻♀️ But Pierre Fabre's continued collaborations with this lab after publishing this paper makes me question their scientific credibility.
Much marketing is solely based on fear.
@@Jenna-xt7ni yep. Like omg if you don't use our product, you will look ugly and then you won't find love and no one will hire you. You will become a laughing stock of the society 🙄
Well, that intro and those snake emojis made my day. By the way... I saw Byrdie list you in their “Clean Beauty Heroes” thing. They called you a “clean beauty OG” and I was shocked. Have they ever even watched your content? You are the antithesis of clean beauty pseudoscience/quackery fearmongering. I just found it really weird. Anyhow, always a treat when you upload and bless us with science!
Did they see her, "Clean Beauty is a scam and won't give us safer products" video? 😆
@@nancykerrigan exactly!!!
Saw this exact article and gasped! Lol 😆
Seriously?? How dare they use Michelle like that? These people 🤣
I saw that too and even messaged her on IG about it! Couldn’t stop laughing at how ironic it was 😂 Side note: there’s another article in their “Eco/Clean Beauty” series they’re doing this month and it tries to define what clean beauty is to them because they said they know there is no set definition and it just perpetuates even more myths and even cites the EWG website 🤦🏻♀️
The dude commenting on your blog post 🤣🤣 All I can think about is Regina George being like “Why are you so obsessed with me?!?” 😅
Omg a missed meme opportunity 😭😭😭
Still a fun video, tho. XD
Esp the one when you recite Taylor Swift's lyrics. XD@@LabMuffinBeautyScience
This feels like if I, a phycisist (phd in environmental sciences and solar spectroscopy) would start publishing about how blue light from computers is toxic, just because I am tired of programming.
Propaganda?! I guess evidenced based research and critical analysis have a new word now. Your video intro was brilliant
It was!!!
Thank you! I agonised over it for hours 😭😭😭
@Lab Muffin Beauty Science it was presented so perfectly, it made me ugly laugh 😉 I am so frustrated for you I started reading about defamation rights. Im so sorry that you had to endure this, but the way you handled it is admirable
Thank you so much for bursting this shady fearmongering study. I am French and I heard about the study when I asked for sunscreen recommendations and a Twitter mutual mentioned it, which made me look up for a video from you about it, but at the time you didn’t have one. Glad you’ve ended up making one! Also the nerves of them quoting you as propaganda????
Wow. What a thorough and classy refutation of this bizarre paper. You are the only beauty blogger I follow anymore because you always come with receipts - keep the propaganda coming 🐍🐍
“There seems to be pattern in how the authors are selecting and presenting the information”
Academia, ladies and gents.
Love your work, Michelle 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
1. Find something to disagree with.
2. Only accept papers supporting your views as truth. Don't even read or debate opposition.
3. Earplugs.
I'm always suspicious in people who love publishing in journals. A lot of them just want to get as many citations to their name as possible
@A C yes, if someone would rather publish a lot of papers rather than a few that has significant data. How is it "silly" to be suspicious at those types of people whose main agenda is recognition?
@A C i never said they were mutually exclusive. I never said those papers are irrelevant.
I said be suspicious in people whose main agenda is recognition and publishing rather than actual research.
I dont need you to explain how grants and citations work to me. I have published my fair share of papers and received national funding in my country WITHOUT having a lot of citations to my name but because of the significance of my research. Not every academician wants to get their name out there. The pressure from academia that someone publish a lot is what dilutes research.
@A C anyway, that's my point. As someone with firsthand experience with the types of people who love getting published. These people who work with younger scientists, researchers, and doctors and make them do the leg work while they just sit back and accumulate the citations. Anyone who has enough experience in research knows this.
Yep! In France, I saw quite a lot of magazine articles based on this study. They mostly just said "don't use a sunscreen you started using last year!", though, which is actually pretty good advice if we put the benzophenone stuff aside.
Yeah from talking to some French beauty people (Cosmetics Anatomy, Bonnie Garner) the media started by freaking out about cancer, then slowly calmed down to the sensible advice.
I'm a natural-born cynic and skeptic and I usually assume these kinds of studies have some kind of angle. I appreciate that there are educated, intelligent, well-spoken people (like Michelle) who can see through the agenda. We should all apply this level of scrutiny to these "studies."
Are you applying same level of scrutiny to the “studies” about sun “damage”? Did you ever even read one “study” on the light exposure?
@@orangefox5121 did you?
Why the heavily pointed language towards this person you don't know ?
@@BBaaaaa yes, I did, and therefore my language
Octocrylene is heavily relied on in the US market to stabilize Avobenzone, so it would be detrimental for the US market to ban octocrylene, also L'Oreal seems to LOVE this UV filter, they use it very commonly even in Europe where they have access to many other UV filters to stabilize avobenzone including their very own 2 mexoryl UV filters
Apparently sunscreen causes skin cancer tho, so I’m guessing the less stable the formulation and effective the spf the less skin cancer ?🤥
It’s also a very poor UVB filter, like only 1 SPF unit per %. Due to the ban by some places on Oxybenzone & Octinoxate, using Octocrylene at high % is the only way to get an SPF above 30
@@amydearing9866 I wouldn’t say it’s the only way, there are many technologies to boost SPF & maximize performance of UV filters other than just UV filters & their percentages
@@amydearing9866 Actually a good example of a poor UVB filter is Homosalate lol at pretty high percentages it provides very little SPF, i feel like they mostly use it as a solvent to help dissolve other UV filters
This is easily one of the funniest, and strangely one of the more important videos you've ever done.
Wow. Skincare science gossip? Lol. I’ve seen it ALL.
if i had written my master's thesis the way these authors wrote this paper i wouldn't have graduated lol
Seriously. I was reading the methods and it felt like it was written by a freshman college student. It was just clunky and not concise. You don't literally need to write out in explicit detail each step of the procedure.
As a librarian, I have to say, this is one of the best breakdowns of bad peer-reviewed research I've ever seen. Thank you!
That intro deserves an award. Sadly, all I can give is a Like and some friendly Comment Engagement. Cheers!
Edit: I got to the middle dsjfksdjfkldjsklfjdslk I'm dead, I'm slain, someone call me an ambulance
The first 30 seconds of this are THE BEST thing I've ever seen on RUclips!🤣🤣🤣
This is the most informative clapback I’ve ever seen.
The detail and thoroughly researched information is sooooooo appreciated ❤️ nerds unite 🙌🏼
I honestly nearly choked on my breakfast when you said “haters gonna hate hate hate” and then the clip of you dousing yourself in sunscreen almost sent me to the maker 🤣🤣🤣 Great video!
This is the most professional, well sourced and articulated "Oh no you di-int!" I have ever seen.
“I would like to do a propaganda” typed in the skillsshare search box lmao
Thanks Michelle, Im a dermatologist(in Argentina) and I love your videos because you go deep in the methods they obtein results. I have read the papers on benzophenone but i didnt know the afiliation of the author with Pierre Fabre. Many labs had taken of benzophenone and octinosate from their formulas. Thanks a lots! Im going to read one of the other paper that you cite aboit Hawai.
This made my PhD-writing heart so happy and sad at the same time. What a brilliant take down! It was great to see you dismantle the paper with surgical precision. Keep up the great work!
Thank you for commenting on this paper. I knew you would go above and beyond to break it down.
I'm just speechless at that last bit... The researcher is like "hey this research says that octocrylene is bad! Go an update your video!" What were they expecting?? for Michelle to go like "understandable! I will do so right away!!!" Uuugh the disrespect 😤
Amazing video by the way 👌
I'm not sure I trust his interpretation of the research after examining this paper in detail tbh 😒
honestly you're just iconic (full offense to the creators of that paper)
That’s such a shame that this got through the peer review process. If I’d been a peer reviewer, “propaganda” would at least warrant checking out the corresponding citations. At the very least, I typically scan the reference section to check on consistent formatting.
There were also two reference numbers that pointed to the same paper 😒 I think maybe the referees weren't native English speakers
Honestly who even needs sunscreen with all this shade being thrown around 😌
Right! SPF 10,000 PA++++++++++++++++++
The whole video is already soo good but the skillshare ad at the end just killed me :D go get that Big Learning™️ money Michelle
ngl, this paper looks a lot like my last minute essays in terms of citation sources and the info picking because I only skimmed through the papers I cited
As a PhD physicist and also a skin care enthusiasts I love your videos. This one was particularly hilarious 🤣
As a Cali resident, I laughed as soon as you said “Prop 65.” Everything has a prop 65 warning here, even at the grocery store
CA native here. I don't know of any one who even really gives a second thought to Prop 65 warnings. At best, it annoys us when something we want to order by mail can't be shipped here because of it, even if it's a product you can get anywhere else in the States.
Firstly great video. Secondly that was hands down the best skill share add I’ve ever seen.
The editing at the beginning was phenomenal, I laughed so much
Thank you! I had a first-time executive director helping me with that part, he'd be very proud 😂
I love the way you handled this. It demonstrates clearly the difference between someone who changes the narrative to suit their purpose and someone who draws conclusions based on research and evidence. As they say, it does not matter what they say as long as they spell your name right 😉
hey there, from one scientist to another, I have a PhD in biochmeistry and currently doing my M.D, you have your PhD in chemistry. You are on the right path girl. Don't give up !!!
- insert Mean Girls clip "why are you so obsessed with me?!" -
I wish I thought of that! 😭
This is a great video and thank you for making it! I recently fell in love with a zinc and octocrylene sunscreen after saying goodbye to my Purito, Dear Klairs, and Krave Beauty sunscreens (forever in my heart ♥️). What I had seen online about octocrylene seemed bad but I wasn't sure if I should believe it. It's like you read my mind! Thank you!
What's up with Dear Klairs and Krave Beauty?
@@SanduniPremaratne the SPF rating is way lower than the SPF50 they advertised
@Sss 😬 Knew about the Purito controversy but didn't know about those two. Guess I got some catching up to do. Thanks!
Most eloquent and dignified SMACK DOWN I’ve ever seen.
The snake emojis wizzing by with the little “sss” is sending me 😹
I love how you slay the paper with science, analysis and just pure wit 🙌🤓
Hey Michelle! It's so early idk what to say so sending my love and support!
It's 4:30 am here in Bangladesh but who cares. Much love
You helped me convince my friends to wear sunscreen everyday! I always show them your videos. Even though they only want to wear it because of wrinkles (oh well), I’m happy their skin is healthier now 😎 with support of your videos!!
You are a blessing! This kind of idea laundered nonsense is impossible to dislodge from the common conversation without the kind of thorough, carefully considered, painstaking work that you just did in this video; no wonder, then, that it's so uncommon for us to bask in a refutation this even-handed. Too much work involved, so scientists, preoccupied with the work that's already on their plate, usually don't bother to directly address other people's jabber. Looks like they were poking the wrong scientist in this case! You were all brains and class! Thank you for your approach, it earned you another subscriber today!
I find it so ironic that these "experts" are accusing Michelle of being a propaganda source... by spreading propaganda themselves :D
That was masterful, Michelle. It was like an episode of “Line of Duty: Beauty Edition” - disinformation, shady characters, questionable associations, suspect motives, complex conspiracy.... And you, skillfully dismantling it all like Arnott and Fleming combined. 💪🏻😂
Please do a video on perfumes and safety/toxicity truths and myths. It’s so difficult to find non-biased scientific info! 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻
I don't have much interest in skincare products, and I don't live in a part of the world where I need to wear sunscreen very often. But your channel is so, so refreshing for showing a rational approach to reviewing often daunting research papers and showing people how to cut through the marketing spin and dubious motivation of some authors and inform themselves instead. Please keep up the great work!
The snakes give it the perfect touch.
Your intro and outro had me on the ground! This video has everything I love about your channel, the LOLs, the precise and unbiased takedown of stupidity and BIG LEARNING.
OH my goodness flames are shooting from my screen . That was a masterful rebuttal, rant, roast and remediation of ignorance @labmuffin!!! Chef's kiss
You are literally my role model 🥸 I had a presentation on sunscreens in an undergrad chem class and you were one of the main sources 😂 I love my propaganda source
We know who those 3 dislikes are from 😅
Maybe the other two authors are asleep 🤫
the cinematography in this😂
Your video reminds me of critical analysis of research papers we had to do in uni and I’m living.
The tiny snake hisses were just delightful
Thoroughly enjoyed living vicariously through your takedown of some sketchy academics in a very public and impactful way.
Omfg when the Pierre Frabre call outs happen, this is when dramatic, exposé music needs to start playing
Thank you! Without someone qualified like you breaking things down in a way that is easily understandable to the average consumer many would just believe whatever information is handed to them. Your professionalism and integrity is refreshing.
This video totally made my day 😂. As an author of the review paper you pointed out, I totally know these guys definitely like to buck scientific consensus in all fields they dabble in🤣. Great video!
Michelle now that 5% Topical Spironolactone is finally available through Apostrophe in combination with Tretinoin, can you please talk about topical spironolactone and the data available on it?
that was the most entertaining peer reviewed big learning I have ever not had to read.
Hoping to one day attain the level of scrutiny that you have when reading scientific papers! This video reminded me of a group project I did in bachelors where our group half assed the literature review and manipulated sources to get our point across. We thought we were being sneaky 100 but the professor saw right through it and exposed us in front of the entire class 💀 needless to say, as someone who now wants to go into academia, I learned to never use such shoddy practices ever again. Maybe the authors of this paper will learn the same.
You are so thorough and meticulous. I’m so impressed.
I think this was my favorite video you've ever made, bravo
I am so glad you made this.
I have been waiting for this video forever
I am so ashamed. I fell for this and there are so many sites that list a lot of chemical sunscreen ingredients that ruin the reefs. I didnt think there could be a thing like "big sunscreen"
Michelle you are my science nerd, fact base, beauty sorceress crush. I can't get enough of you. I listen to your podcasts over and over again like I am getting ready for the finals. I got my esthetic license 11 years ago and you help me stay relevant. Keep on keeping on. ❤
I personally hate Octocrylene (for my skin) because it stings my skin badly and I always have to search for a long time to find a sunscreen without it (and Niacinamide which my skin also hates).
But I would never come to the conclusion, that no one should use it because of me or those shady studies. If your skin is ok with it it's a very effective sunscreen filter that saves you from getting cancer.
Totally agree with you 👍
I like how you updated the "About Me" section in your description box, to include "propaganda source".
*The dedication*
I definitely subscribed to the right channel, y'all.
The comedy in the video! Ugh Michelle, your mind amazes me.
Thank you so much! ❤️
I need "The Old Michelle Can't Come To The Phone Right Now" Lab Muffin merch, **PLEASE**
They sound like literal tin foil conspiracists. BTW those sassy 🐍 edits sent me. Love how im learning to be more aware from your videos.
Great video and research as always! 😁
I appreciate that someone is looking into the safety of compounds used in cosmetics, since chemistry and biology are so complex, and sometimes ingredients have secondary effects difficult to predict. I don't like when scientist say an ingredient is safe, but barely any studies were made to confirm that 😅
But then, studies that try to prove something is bad are weird and sus 🤦🏻♀️ that's kind of frustrating. Can someone please make some decent studies 😅
And damn...that propaganda stuff was harsh 🙄 I hope you'll recover from the trauma soon😅
Bring back the 🐍🐍🐍 in other videos too please! 😚
I hope you can make videos about skincare products that we can put in the fridge to prolong its life and increase its efficacy! ❤️
I am allergic agains octocrylen (in the past it was really hart to find a sunscreen without this ingredient) so I am so happy that suddanly this ingredient has a bad reputation and is removed from a lot of sunscreens in the drugstore. But my body reaction on this molecule doesn’t make it bad in general. like some people are allergic agains peanuts doesn’t mean they have to be avoided by everyone. Ococrylen is an effective sun filter and I am glad that you look objectively on papers to help consumers make an educated purchases.
Thank you! Your response is so well researched that I envy your patience and calm 🙏
I liken this to when influencers create drama and then release a palette. One of my fav videos yet of yours! 🙌🙌🙌
THAT INTROOOOO!! QUEEN. TOTALLY. YOU ARE A PRO.
I noticed a couple of years ago that Octocrylene actually irritates my skin. The CVS Clear Zinc SPF 50 always burned my skin so bad and I do know that Octocrylene was one of the two filters. After a week of use my moisture barrier was practically rubbed raw
That's a legitimate reason to avoid octocrylene - maybe this also happened to one of the scientists and that's why he now has a vendetta against it? 🤔
Seriously your best work so far! ❤️👌🙌
Damn Michelle! This is such a great breakdown and analysis of the paper. I just did a uni assessment about critically analysing information sources and you've really shown me how a pro does it.
I love that you show people how to be more critical about what they're reading. Regarding your comment about scientists staying within a certain specialty, this is usually true in academia but not always the case in industry, especially in times of economic difficulties. For example, between ~2008-2011, there were massive layoffs in the pharmaceutical industry worldwide with entire facilities closing. This led to a huge influx of scientists applying for any available research job and many scientists (including chemists) changing fields in order to get a job. Now, when HR sends me applications, it's not uncommon to see changes in specialties, especially in middle to upper research positions. Just thought you'd be interested.
Yes very true! I was only talking about in the context of an academic publication record.
@@LabMuffinBeautyScience I thought you might have been too young to know that this can happen. Thanks for replying. I really appreciate how well you explain critical evaluations of peer-reviewed articles. :)
3:16 I’ve died when i saw that snake sprinting omg 😂
What about this one 5:08 Too Cute 😚😆
😂
Probably one of my favourite videos of yours!
Your ad at the end had me in tears!! 🤣
"If you like poisoning your brain with education..."
"big delicious propaganda..."
So on point and yet hilarious I had to stick around for every last word of propagandary goodness
Really excellent video that could be used to show people well-explained examples of common ways the "clean beauty" crowd misinterprets/misrepresents research