AoE2 Scorpions
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- Опубликовано: 27 июл 2024
- What are the best and worst units against mass scorpions? Let's find out.
Range and damage 1:10
The experiment setup 2:15
Halberdiers 2:58
Champions 3:38
Huskarls 3:57
Woad Raiders 4:15
Teutonic Knights 4:30
Berserks / Jaguar Warriors / Samurai 4:42
Mayan Eagle Warrior 5:02
Aztec Eagle Warrior 5:15
Arbalest / Chu Ko Nu / Plumed Archer 5:27
Longbowmen 5:42
Elite Skirmishers 5:51
Hand Cannoneers 6:02
Paladins 6:31
Hussars 6:57
Cataphracts 7:12
Cavaliers 7:18
Heavy Cavalry Archers / Mangudai 7:38
Mameluke 7:56
Conquistador 8:09
War Wagons 8:20
Tarkan 8:30
War Elephants 8:45
Heavy Camels 9:25
Onagers 9:47
Bombard Cannons 10:00
Aztec Monks 10:12
Bonus vs buildings 10:30
Civilizations with scorpion bonuses 11:00
Results - Top 10 Best and worst units vs scorpions 12:15
Intro song: • Spirit of the Law Chan...
Patreon: www.patreon.com/SpiritoftheLaw
Background music from Epidemic Sound: www.epidemicsound.com
Game: Age of Empires 2 HD 
Игры
You know a game's bangin' when people are looking into mechanics this closely 17 years after release.
I think it's not that the game is bangin'. Spirit of the Law is the shit. Even people who don't play AoE watches his vids just coz they're so good
I'm ShaPowLow I think it's both
i used to play AoE and AoE II alot in my childhood and stoped when i was 10 i think recently one of my favorit youtubers started playing AoE II and so this channel got recomended to me and now i'm playing AoE II aswell :)
i've gotten a few friends of mine to start playing, it's a game that holds up very well 15+ years later, even though it's not a game where having the best graphics ever was the goal
19..
0:42 Deer confirmed strongest unit in AoE 2
Ohh man that was amazing to read 😂😂😂
Can`t believe I never noticed that hahaha. Awesome sir.
I still like the scorpions cause they sound so cute when you click on them
lmaooo
The other day I was trying to be clever and, after having my precious Teutonic Knights pestered with stones courtesy of Inca Slingers, I remembered this video and said "hey, Scorpions seem to be the correct choice here"(remember what happened to the Hand Canonneers in the video). So I went forward with the idea, because it is nice to find a use for forgotten units (and also because I am cheap: Scorpions cost nowhere near other siege uints)
Ok, I make a dash (well, sort of) with the Teutonic Knights to draw the Slingers and then I go in for the kill with the Scorpions. Then out of nowhere a Mangonel fires upon my Scorpions, flattening them with no effort.
I promptly ditched the idea and used Siege Onagers instead.
well that was a ride
What a rollercoaster ride
This sums up why Scorpions suck lmao
You have a very gentle voice, when I can't sleep I sometimes play one of your videos and fall asleep to you narrating age of empires 2 tactics.
This is the cutest comment
One my enemy made a lot of Teutonic Knights, i made scorpions. They all died and he resinged lol
That's what he gets for only making those ;p Plus you probably had more scorpions and spread out rather than so close that the TKs can reach tem easily
Monks can also convert all the Teuton Knights
I don't even play AoE2, I just watch your videos cause they're good.
Me too. It's such good commentary even someone who doesn't play the game can get it. I played AoE religiously so i still enjoy seeing what's up with the franchise, though after my experience of online play being more concerned about efficient build order and kiting archer units rather than any semblance of skill i didn't pick it up competitively.
Likewise; my days of Age of Empires are long gone (although can be revived at the odd LAN party) since I moved on to other RTS (currently Company of Heroes) but Spirit of the Law´s videos are great, and for some reason, very relaxing for me.
I think its in part due to the music. Its like it and airport music come from the same family (classic lounge?/lounge chill?)
same
Same here... I call it the Top Gear phenomenon
(Don't give a fk about cars , watches anyway)
A few questions from this video have been addressed in a followup one:
ruclips.net/video/5XC2sq6MJhs/видео.htmlm9s
Questions include:
What about rams?
What about trebuchets?
What about throwing axemen?
Should archers be moved closer against scorpions?
Why did the scorpion appear to destroy some trees at 4:10?
+Spirit Of The Law how do you get the cars in that game to do that let alone the cars in the frist place. :O
+Vincent Celeste its a cheat code
its
@how can i turn this on@
blanaru razvan never knew that. :O is there a vid for all cheats like that I would like to see this cheat in action and thanks for the answer.
no problem man XD
I think you also forgot to include naval units. Do scorpions fare better against naval invasions from land rather than as control-point units?
finally the video i have been waiting for
+Miran Uzeri I LOVE SCORPIONS!:D
+HBon111 same here c:
+Miran Uzeri When i play with celts I use to mass scorpions with few onager, i can take down eeven paladin and hussars armies, obviously creating more scorps
+Erigierten gameplays 4 I do the opposite mass onagers w/ scorpions because the onagers are also good against buildings .
I always love that intro with the villager and the car. xD the music at the time is so cool :DDD xDDDD
Honestly this is maybe my favorite SotL video, heck I'm still coming back to it years later (runner up might go to yasma arrow tech vid). It's got math, some fun practical scenarios, a bunch of unique units thrown at mass units and some good advice. Perfect.
I love the way you put little funny stuff in your videos! You are awesome!
Waited for this video! Thank you!
I'm very thankful for this video and enjoyed, but I'm not sure if I agree with the test.
I feel like having a look into how many scorpions would be needed to keep different units at bay might be better. You could definitely have far more scorpions that are still able to hit units in this setup.
You mentioned that in a real scenario you would be topping up the halberdiers, and I am surprised that you didn't setup a trigger to do this.
I think going over every unit one at a time felt a bit slow to me and maybe just some tables with this information would have been just as informative.
I still love your videos and hope you keep making them. :)
I was waiting for an episode like this (i love scorpions), thanks man!
Hey men! Very nice video, as always. I want to express my opinion on how good your channel is. Every time i recive notification about new video from you, im super excited and cant wait to see it. They are always extremly well done and cover all things connected to the topic. I love your complex maths (because i like maths :D) and way that you test and explain everything. You are definetly best Age of Empires channel on RUclips. Keep it up men! Cheers :)
You're so great :D thanks for your work to get this video out! I love it
So basically don't ever build scorpions unless you play some tight-alley map like black forrest in which case build mangonels so again don't ever build scorpions. :D This unit needs to get buffed IMHO...
+Mike Czeck Yes and no. Keep in mind that the scorpions in this video were being constantly flooded with units but their screen was not, so the fight was getting harder for them and easier for the enemy. In a real battle it might be the other way around.
Look at 6:57, if there had been just 30 hussars the scorpions would have won with no losses but the halberdiers in front, and the exchange ratio would've been much better.
All in all, I think this video shows *which* units are better against them, but not necessarily by *how much*.
Hmm nice insight
+landochabod7 This is the best scenario for scorpions. I have raped a group like this one with teutonic knights.
+Mike Czeck
worth it as the Slavs or the Celts in certain scenarios
+landochabod7 Can't the same line of thinking be applied to the scorpions themselves though?. This was the best sort of tactical situation for them to be used, and they still barely managed.
Who ever would assemble an army of scorpions of this large a magnitude? Getting them into position is a pain, as they are a slow unit, with very little flexibility. If you put all your resources in scorpions like this, whilst your opponent invests in faster units, he will be able to outmanouver you and beat you anyway, as I see it.
All in all, I would personally conclude that the scorpion does have its niche, but the niche is just too small for the unit to actually be relevant. I think it might deserve a damage buff or something like that..
Cobra car counters everything so who cares
+Carlos Olea The villager says different. 0:58
+threadenoid908 fucking nerd.
+threadenoid908 people don't know the power of supremacy
+threadenoid908 He was probably Spanish.
+Carlos Olea
supremacy>mass elite longbows>scout rush>mass teutonics>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Cobra
spirit!!! The title is already awesome!! Always wanted to know more about them! :) Oh by the way... I really miss a Celt-Civ Overwiew... :)
u forgot to take seige rams in the test.. i think they are atleast 2nd best against scorpions :D
+Anirudh Dad Interesting thought, considering Scorpions also have bonus damage vs. rams.
yeah, and rams literally one shot almost all scorpions, also they hurt them in aoe.
+Anirudh Dad Also, he forgot to do a Scorpion vs Scorpion run as a baseline.
Since he's making a limited amount of scorpions on one side and an unlimited amount on the other, the cost effectiveness might no be 1/1
+Anirudh Dad Also, he forgot to do a Scorpion vs Scorpion run as a baseline.
Since he's making a limited amount of scorpions on one side and an unlimited amount on the other, the cost effectiveness might no be 1/1
+Jineapple Add on the Mongol speed boost, and there you have the ultimate Scorpion killer. :P
i havent played a RTS since command and conquer for the PS1, but i love watching your vids. i really want to give this game a try one day.
Glad to hear of AoE2 again, thanks for the video +Spirit Of The Law
I subscribed to you recently. I'm pretty decent at math yet I never really got to like it. However your videos always make me like it for some reason. you also got me into AoE2 again, which I bought with the expansions on the last steam sale. Keep up the amazing videos!
thanks for the informative video about that underused unit.
here is a little indication: you forgot the ramms as a possible counter.
keep up the good work! :)
and i´m curious about the next episode of road to 1800+. Aim higher! ;D
In the test you're using the scorpions as a defensive choke point unit, where actually they should be used in a mobile choke point situation (think black forest) behind strong units.
Their advantage (like in any siege unit) isn't about gold vs gold, rather their low population cost relative to their effect... it is better to have a screen of scorpions behind an assortment of units, then just more of those other units.
what an amazing video thanks for all your hard work.
great video, hard work to do all of that, nice
Love the videos! Keep it up!
That's why I always put my Scorpions, siege onagers, trebuchets behind walls to try to slow down the enemy units & then try to move my infantry around to sandwich them between my siege weapons & main forces... great video as always Spirit. have a good weekend.
+CmdrSloanne i'll expect a follow-up video about it though. it probably was too much for just one.
I try to avoid using seige onagers.. They are disfunctional.. They would shoot at the enemy even if your units are around them- and kill your units of course. They are so dumb! I wish there was some sort of preventive command, that tells onagers not to shoot if your own units are in the hit area. Otherwise it's impossible to micro-manage them in big battle - you may end up losing 4 Paladins because of those knuckleheads trying to hit ONE pikeman!
Usually I set them on No Attack stance to let them fire only as I command - unless I actually need them to fire at will.
Recently I've actually grown kinda fond of them.
I think the fact that you compare the resources sold to gold in late imp with market saturated makes the Scorpions seem worse than they are. The most likely scenario is that there is still gold to be mined on the map and that the game (at least in my experience) is probably over when all gold is mined.
For example a scorpion is costing 75 wood and 75 gold. You had 32 (four lines with eight in each) of them in your tests which is equal to 4800 resources. If we compare it against skirmishes which was 2184 gold and inverse market trade to its original resource we get 15600 total. In this case the Scorpion is killing the Skirmishes at a little more than 3:1 ratio in resources which is pretty good.
I would still consider gold a more valuable resource but maybe not as much as the 100:14 ratio. Maybe you can show both "total resources" and "sold to gold" in your videos so that one can compare early and late game value.
Love your videos anyways. Keep it up
Rodskagg not when u have relics and spamming champions
Also on this type of map (black forest or michi) it's really easy to set up trade which might make you end up with even more gold than other rescources, so yeah. The already pointed out skirmishers show the pouint perfectly.
You took a "might-be-scenario" and put it as a "must-be-scenario".
Which can be quite misleading.
The hussar probably did only as good as the scorpion, as the 7:1 food>gold radio will of course make them appear much better than they actually are.
It'd have been better to simply compary rescources and then add the fact which ones don't cost gold and could be doing good *in this one specific scenario*
So gold units vs trash units, really?
Great video! I like your channel!
I watch your videos way more than I play age of empires. Love them!
you put a lot of work here! = good video + good content = good job!
That's not how scorpions are usually used. You always need some meat shield in front of them to prevent enemies from stepping into the minimum range. Another very important thing is to patrol scorpions. Try it, it massively improves their combat performance, especially when coupled with defensive or stand ground stance. Against the ranged enemies, it looks like you did use patrol, so why not against the melee ones, too?
So they require heavy support, specific placement and are situational at most.
That's why they are bad.
Great video! I'd like to remark one things that came to mind when watching - the fact that the scorpions are getting flooded does in my view overshadow one of the great advantages of ranged units like the scorpion.
This advantage, as I see it, lies in the fact that ranged units will win the fights in which they are superior without getting damaged. I personally do not have a high opinion of the scorpion at all, so maybe the longbowman is the better example. The longbowman is a favorite unit of many a player, even though, as you have pointed out, it does not actually win 1 on 1 against almost any unit or unit combination.The big advantage is that 20 longbowmen might not win vs 20 champions (or whatever their equal-cost number is), but they will take out 8 champions without losing a single hit point. In the case of 20 champions vs 8 champions, you can't boast of the same advantage.
Furthermore, I would argue that longbowmen and scorpions can, for example, take out villagers whilst there is a wall in between them. So all in all, I think that ranged units have an advantage that's hard to actually put in numbers. An advantage that may prove hard to measure in these sort of tests.
thanks for the video ^^ keep it up !
new sub, i love that intro very catchy
Did you see the scorpions cutting trees at 4:10 behind the outpost in the south? :O
But it's not really cut, it is just chopped down to the ground. Never saw that before, maybe bc no one is using the scorpion.
+m0ns1a And you can't attack ground, so nobody would've thought.
+m0ns1a so many years since the game came out, and almost no one had ever realized that (me included xD).
if a scorpion fires and THEN dies before the bolt hits it cuts trees
nobody knows why
its one of the great mysteries of life
You just blew my mind
The scorpions were op as fuck in age of empires online.
you are awesome of making this sir, it must be a lot of work to make a video like this.
Man, I miss the old helepolis from aoe 1, that's how scorpion should be, although they would need to be far more expensive to be balanced in aoe 2....
icbm
aoe 1 cheats are the best :)
+franz304 Yep, you could beat every game by just building a crapload of helepoli.
Until you come along with AI with 50M Heavy Catapults all individually managed that squish them in one go ;p
Then again, you can make the AI ruin their base by running stuff through their catapults ;p
Scorpions are totally awesome, they're weak against certain cavs and siege yeah but with celts they're ballistic monsters. Just played two games where I mass scorpions and put a combo of halberdiers, champions and woad raiders in front. if they sent cav they met the halberdiers and died against them and the scorps. When they tried the onagers I sent forth the raiders and just v-form dodged their attacks and took em down. When they tried a mass of halbs and champions they got hold off by the whole combo while they was mowed down by the scorps. The cavs was fully upgraded paladins but was powerless againts a small line of champs and halbs with the backing of scorps. Massing scorps have been my road to victory when I've used that tact and my fall to loss when I've not used them. Scorps are way underrated.
What if they bring bombard cannons with a meatshield?
Rennie Ash Here's a better question: What if they bring Onagers with meat shields?
I did something similar using scorpions, champs, halberdiers and hand cannons.. I lost that particular battle, but the losses were extremely heavy on my opponents side.
I typically go Khmer (+1 range, two projectiles) with bombard cannons to take out onagers
With Khmer the Scorpions becomes Monsters
Great vid man you da best!
I saw Viper use mass scorps earlier today on Black Forest. It was truly awe inspiring how quickly they slaughtered huge swathes of paladins and monks.
bill withers The width of the choke point definitely is a factor in their efficiency!
omg scorpion is my second favourite unit ( the first one is longbowman of course)
great video!
7:55 its not removed, its lowered to 1 for all siege and extra damage for rams. So they are still more effective than regular archers.
Looking forward to Part 2. Any chance you can try Rams as a test subject against mass scorpions?
When you made this video, you showed Briton Cavaliers against the Heavy Scorpions, but Britons don't get Bloodlines. That 20 HP could make a difference, so what about a civ that has Bloodlines?
First of all: Great video, like always! I'm really glad you put such a focus on Scorpions, hopefully they get more player attention in the future.
However, I'm curious about the validity of your ressource calculation starting at 3:12 simply because using lategame market exchange rate is quite "unusual". In post-imp, exchange should be less of the primary gold source compared to relics and trade carts/cogs (which are way more efficient in gathering time and cost outlay) up to the point where someone is forced to use trash units. If 100:14 would not be a bad trade, exchanging + elite units would be the first choice of all players (without exceptions!), won't it be? Because of that other people go with something like 100% wood/food vs. 130% gold = 100 w/f for 77 g [e.g. theycalllmebacon, I'm sure you will like his spreadsheet posted in this comment section so check it out] and not 100 w/f for 14 g = 100% wood/food vs. 714 % gold as you did.
=> So what's your point to justify 100:14 instead of for example 100:77? ;-)
That said, I'm positively suprised about the outcome saying that Halberdiers & Co. are cost efficient in this scenario... But no matter whether someone doubts your calculation or not: The final list of best/worst counter units would stay close to the same (except that gold units might skip a couple of places in the ladder). So really great stuff anyway!
Hey, +Spirit of the Law. Curiously, would you consider doing a video on how to counter and/or how the famous 'ball of death' civs perform once they reach that post-imperial 'ball of death' combo that is supposed to be nigh impossible to stop? It'd be interesting to find which civ has the better post-imp 'ball of death' status. Examples:
1. Britons once they mass Elite Longbows, protected Halbs and Champs, with many Trebs behind it all.
2. Koreans once they get rolling with Siege Onagers, Elite War Wagons and Halbs.
3. Celts, once they form that siege death with Siege Onagers and Heavy Scorpions, protected by Halbs and Champs.
4. Turks, once they get Elite Janissaries massed with many Bombard Cannons and Hussar for meat shield.
5. Franks, once they get a mass of Paladins combo'd with Hand Cannons and Bombard Cannons.
6. Spanish, with Paladins, Hand Cannons, Bombard Cannons, Conquistadors and Halbs.
7. Indians, once they mass Imperial Camels, Elite Elephant Archers and Hand Cannons.
8. Goths, once they have boomed and can spam Halbs, Elite Huskarls and Champs from many Barracks.
9. Mongols, once they have massed Elite Mangudai, backed up by Siege Rams and Siege Onagers.
Those are the only civs I can think of that become deadly once they mass their Post Imperial units and form a ball of death that can't be stopped (Apologies if I missed any). The idea is, which one has the better combo? And how is each of them countered?
That would be a very large test to do lol
About Franks, I'd rather say Elite Throwing Axemen instead of Hand Cannoniers, because unlike unexperimented players (either never played franks, basically, or just didn't use them in the right way) think, they actually can handle it pretty much as good against widely most infantry units in the game as their gunpowder buddies do on their own too...and if needed so, in very situational cases, like teutonic knights, as a very well speaking example, then Hand Cannoniers are hands down a better choice, obviously. But otherwise, not necessarily everytime, as experimented good franks players could tell it without hesitating in the slightliest way...
You forgot about the Spanish Vils!
Thanks for the contribution!
i have no idea why i started watching your videos, havent touched this game in around 10 years
Definitely going to start using the scorpion after this video, didn't realize how big their strengths are
Damn your videos are epic. Tho I counted on comparison vs the ships, cuz I don't really know what to do with the ships other than send other ships to counter them or use mongrels
Another great vid
0:23 song name?
Nes
My favourite unit in the entire game, thank you :-).
interesting question: how well do scorpions perform against rams that move through the choke point? put some samurais or teutonic knights in there and maybe it's a much better exchange for those units!
nothing better on new years eve than an old spirit of the law video
Do a video on the Cobra Car.
It has been done :D :D
Have you taken a look at this test with either of the expansion's units recently? I think you covered the Magyar Huszar in its civ overview but it'd be cool to see how it actually performs.
Dear mighty Spirit of the Law,
I searched the whole Internet for a good list kinda thing about which units can be used as a counter against other units.
Can you make a video giving a nice oversight about all the counter units?
Italian overview coming anytime soon? :) i really like their unique unit.
+Josef Rosenkvist I agree. The Genoese Crossbow is actually really good against a wide variety of units, although it is somewhat easily countered.
i love this channel
Always great videos, thanks! How can we do a kill counter like this?
No rams vs scorps! I'd love to see how the bonus damages apply!
It's a shame you didn't cover the Expansions. I'd be curious to know how the Ethiopian Heavy Scorpion does, with the extra blast radius tech "Torsion Engines". Though, I do admit that when this tech is mentioned, I think more of Siege Onagers and Siege Rams.
+A. Anderson Torsion Engines are really bad for Scorpions, adds close to 0 extra damage.
Screw everything. SOTL has published a new video!
I really enjoyed the video. How effective the scorpion really is was an interesting question. But I have to ask: Why the Hellebardieres in front? You said, you wanted a test, in which different units would get different results. You get that without any units besides the scorpions too. I think the Hellebardieres just put a possible mistake in the test, cause of their good ability to fight against cavalry and their bad performance against other units.
+Moritz My reasoning was the attack of 8 halberdiers compared to 32 scorpions is fairly insignificant. The point of the halberdiers is to delay the approaching units long enough to get a decent sample time of scorpion shots and get a sense of the approaching units' susceptability to scorpions. At most, 8 halberdiers could _maybe_ take out 5 enemies from the horde of incoming units on their own, and most of the results were somewhere between 50 and 100 kills. The group most affected would be cavalry, of course, which would have been the only systematic bias of choosing halberdiers in front, and cavalry still make up a big chunk of the top 10
Scorpions would do a lot better as long as there is a shield out in front. And may be an option if you have trouble with your onagers killing all your stuff
Spirit plz respond to this.....when will u continue road to 1800 ??
+Zaib Nisar I'll probably record some more soon :)
+Spirit Of The Law It would be fun to hear your comments on games you lose also....
+mcadder oh don't worry - there will be plenty of those haha
Spirit Of The Law It's not (only) my sadistic side who wants it. But I think one would recognize the feeling when things aren't going the way one planned :o) Thats quite entertaining :o)
as far as i know there are two
thats plenty alright 11
I always knew you liked Scorpions :P They are such a good defensive unit if you can keep them safe like near a Castle or behind a wall or something. Could you do a video on what units work best with siege units when on the offence? Like you said Pikeman and Onagers are a good combo but they sometimes friendly fire. Also how does the guarding function work?
You should do a Portuguese Review! :) btw keep up the good work Spirit! :D
this is just great, the other day, as goths I was gonna lose, cuz in late imperial my opponent made tons of hand cannoner and my Huskies were being crushed. the problem with the Spirit's examples is that the units didn't have formations. with only three scorpions I killed a whole 20 fully upgraded army of pure hand cannoner and eventually beat him
Aww, I was hoping you would mention siege rams :P
How effective do you suppose it would be to shuttle infantry up to them, or keep them contained for the speed boost, and a nasty surprise when the ram eventually gets taken out?
I know this is long since the video went up, but in certain situations, its possible you are underestimating the mongol seige speed improvement, such as vs the units that outrange them, like the longbow or treb. With 50% faster speed, they would logically be able to fire quicker and get more kills
Love the intro
You should be setting attack stance to Stand Ground if you're going to use a mass of scorps like that when against melee units, and if you have at least a depth of 3 units of scorpions. This allows the back line to still hit melee units on the front line whilst allowing the front line to target units further away and hit closer units with splash rather than trying to move away to fire at close units.
I would love to see an updated version of this video/test with DE. I love Scorps, but know they are ineffective. Please give me good news about my unhealthy relationship.
can you damage buildings through eachother with the scorpian? Like for example if you have a row of houses or multiple military buildings in a row.
No
I feel like this test would be different if you held ground the scorpions, since that's how you make them effective in the first place. A lot of the scoripons start to stop firing and running away. It does make a difference, since despite their minimum range, they still will deal damage to the units infront of them and also any units coming towards them when the fire at the enemy behind it.
Very, VERY interesting video! But why didn't you try *trebuchets*?
Also I think this late game market-exchange gold equivalent makes trash units look much better than they are; elephants, war wagons and infantry (including UUs) better; archers, Mamelukes and Eagles worse.
landochabod7 they get one shot by them
I had a friend back in high school who LOVED to use the scorpions. When I pointed out how poorly they compared against onagers, he cited the high upgrade cost (somewhere in the range of 2000 food and 2000 gold in total) to upgrade magonels to onagers and then to siege onagers.
I know you touched on it a bit in the part with the militia, but was hoping that there would be more explanation of how the bolt damage works. i never understood whether to attack units at the front or back of a line. Does it even make a difference? Is the damage the same to all of them?
Pretty big breakdown that explains why these things aren't used very often- there just aren't that many things they're really good against and there's tons of counters.
You didn't test them on villagers (generic, Incas, Spanish)!
In-depth analysis is in-depth and analytical. Did it take long to make this?
Really interesting this video shows Scorpions as such a good counter to Plumes and other archers, even pre-buffs, since in the current pro meta archer units often dominate early castle. Conquistadors, Plumes, Camel Archers, even crossbows are staple castle units (some of which are considered extremely strong) and time and again you see people go to mangonel to counter them. Think about this, I'm sure we've all seen it, someone is up against a Mayan, Spanish, etc, and now there are four plumes or conquistadors in their face. They need to deal with this immediately because they're going to snowball if they don't, and are already strong and mobile enough to cause havoc raiding, but at the same time they want to avoid spending food (especially against plumes or crossbows) because then they're either going to lose the race to imp, or need all their food for a multi-TC boom so the standard reaction seems to be to go for mangonels, and try to land some good shots, but against someone with good micro this almost never happens (especially against tougher, faster ranged units like plumes) and they just get picked off one-by-one while the ranged units snowball.
Imho, I'd love to see a test on how well Scorpions would do in this situation given their high pierce armour, that you can't out-micro them and they build twice as fast as onagers for less than half the price. If you micro-down and onager it's wasted money, and it will often be killed before another onager gets out to help it, whereas the scorpion will always do at least some damage, and mass much faster. Something like this would actually be something you could potentially spin off into a series. Basically testing the meta. I mean yes scorpions are hard-countered by mangonels, but there are ways to defend them (your own mangonels, or monks with block printing and redemption, think how easily slavs could do this, and then to potentially have their halbs out front doing splash damage and armour on their defensive monks, how the hell do you counter that? They can even convert bombard canons, I think only Britons or Goths would manage, and sure I know it's one of those fantasy late game balls-of-death, but it's not like slavs are weak in feudal or castle and will never get there, in fact they're damn strong)
Would also love to see this test re-done with new unique tech and civ bonuses like double crossbow, torsion engine, ironclad, slavs -15% siege cost.
I used massed Celtic scorpions with onager supportrecently, and I was really impressed by their output! Albeit it was at Black Forest...
Those cars seem pretty effective! XD
Funny, I always used Scorpions and neglected to use Onagers since they don't do friendly fire damage. Then I found your channel and it seems to be the other way around now
7:46 the mongols are the exception... as usual
What about rams? I would expect something similar to the elephants.
Also, if you placing them in, as you said, ideal conditions for the scorpions, what if instead of halberdiers there was a line of stone walls there? I imagine it's the cavalry that would suffer the most there
Spirit, is that guitar your own composition or have you got it from a song? I happen to really fancy it
7:46 the mongols are always the exception
You should make another video testing how different combinations of army makes scorpions more effective.
now I want t o see the HD expantion version of this video since I mostly play on the expansions
Oh my gosh guys it's Brorelia!!!!
What suprised me was how good against archers they were.
Id even say scorpions are even more of a archer counter then an infantery counter.
they counter everything (except cannons and onagers, even onagers if khmer) if massed and with a proper meatshield (prefferably hussar, and good scorp civs tend to have hussars). People just don't realise how strong they are, they are better in almost all aspects compared to onagers except against other siege (and buildings, obviously)
Wow the AC Cobra seems to be a really good counter!
11:04 The top right info chart about the races, is that a mod? it looks very handy after not playing in 20 years. Answers would be much appreciated :D
I fucking love your video's. Keep up the great work! Greetings
do you have a video specifically about orangers/mangonels?? tips n tricks on how to use them and their attack groind feature more efficiently? cause their pretty easily destroyed....