What Was In The Beginning With God? John 1:1-4, 1 John 1:1-2
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- Опубликовано: 17 сен 2016
- John 1:1 never says, “In the beginning was the Son, and the Son was with God, and the Son was God.” The text says, “In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God, and the word was God.” If we do not assume that the word (logos) is another God beside the Father, then John 1:2 should be translated as “it” or “this was in the beginning with God” rather than “he was in the beginning with God. For the Son of God was with the Father only in God’s expressed thought (logos) before having a beginning by his begetting.
Trinitarian scholars have had a great influence on the vast majority of Bible translations what we have today. Just as scientists who believe in evolution often use their personal bias when interpreting the facts of science, so Trinitarian scholars have often used their personal bias in the various translation we have today.
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Do u have a video on 1 John 5:20 And we know that The Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know Him that is True, and we are in Him that is True, even in His Son Jesus Christ. This is The True God, and eternal life.
*[[Isa **43:10**]] KJV* Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.
Thank you Jesus for your word and for yet another fantastic teaching my brother Richie
Excellent, very well done...Thank you
Most profound and amazing in its implication. By His word, the sons of God are translated into Sonship by the WORD. Those who at lead by the WORD OF GOD, ARE the Sons of God.
We are required to search HIM out, and you shall find Him! For in the beginning the Sons of God, shouted for joy over the creation process. The process that makes them the Sons of
Yahovah. This process is preserved by your correct assessment. Thank You! glenn!😀
This is sound doctrinal teaching, it was very clear and easy to be understood.
Good explanation thks for your hard work
This is the Meat that I like to sink my teeth into. ! I subscribed.
thank u pastor for this video... God bless u...
could u plis explain on
1 peter 1:3
Blessed be the God and Father of jesus christ...
One God also became one man via virgin conception. ruclips.net/video/-9VDvZCFXFI/видео.html
Oneness Theology affirms the ontological distinction between the Father (God as God) and the Son (God as man). ruclips.net/video/-9VDvZCFXFI/видео.html
@Sharon L Actually, when Jesus was Baptized, he received the Holy Spirit. God can't receive the HS. He is the HS. At that point he went to the Mt. for 40 days. When he returned and started his ministry, God was within his body which was made pure for those 40 days. God was within the Son at that point. God with us. God and Jesus. As one.
@Heavens Gate1 while it is true that God placed His Holy Spirit at that point in time it was not because Jesus lacked His Holy Spirit but rather as John the baptsit pointed out, there was no need for him to do that but the Lord explained that it was to fulfill all righteousness and to live as fhe perfect example. For Jesus is the Holy Spirit Himself, which came down from heaven Luke 1:35 and John 6:38 to take upon Himself human flesh John 1:14. He was fulfilling things as the perfect man to represent humanity
@@MARIOHAKAIcorrect, only as a mere man Jesus could not live sinless life for 30 years as no man can do. God was with Jesus as a spirit from the beginning. But still it is important to understand Jesus was not God/JHVH, but he possessed the holy spirit the God's spirit fully and had a direct and complete interaction with God, including the power and abnormal skills.
What about John 17:5?
Perfect teachimg Amen
John 1:1-5 (Tyndale Bible) 1 In the beginnynge was the worde and the worde was with God: and the worde was God. 2 The same was in the beginnynge with God. 3 All thinges were made by it and with out it was made nothinge that was made. 4 In it was lyfe and the lyfe was ye lyght of men 5 and the lyght shyneth in the darcknes but the darcknes comprehended it not.
The Greek reading of John 1:1
In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God, and God was the word.
How did God create? He spoke his word.
So what Bible should I read?
Nasv
Yes, actually, I can grasp and sense some glimpses of the idea. Would you also break down Rev.19:11-16. Thank you!
I grew up as a trinitarian, and yes I think I will be able make up my mind. I need all the verses that support the 3in1 idea to be explained :)
Where do you stand now?
John 1:14 "And the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us.."
1 Timothy 3:16 "And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory"
Thank you for this opinion. You obviously have done quite a bit of studying. I have a question, though. If Jesus Christ is not and was not from the beginning a separate and distinct individual God from his father, then what do you do with John 17? Particularly, versus 3, 5, 8, 11, and 21 through 23.
Are you saying that Jesus, the son of God did, or did not exist prior to his birth as a human? What exactly does the word "glory" mean in the Bible? Since Jesus wanted to be restored to The Glory he had prior to the creation of the world, does that mean he wanted to no longer exist as the creator of the world and as the son of God? Did he want to once again become non-existent, other than merely as spoken verbal thoughts of his father?
WickAndTallow, The deity of Jesus has always existed as the omnipresent Holy Spirit of God before God's Spirit was manifested in the flesh (1 Tim. 3:16) to become fully human in every way (Heb. 2:17; 1 Cor. 15:45). John 17 is addressing the predestined glory that God gave the human son of God (John 17:24) which was also given to Christ's disciples (John 17:22).
For a detailed exegesis of John 17 see view this link: ruclips.net/video/VkESzgSxcIM/видео.html
Global Impact Ministries
Steve Ritchie reiterated your points in his own words, but he did not answer my questions. Do you have an answer to my question's details? Or can you identify Steve's statements that address them? Apparently, the onemess theory does not square with John 17. So far, neither Unitarians nor Trinitarians have presented Biblically sound arguments.
Both sides have Cherry-picked all the scriptures that might support their theories, while at the same time each side rejects the cherry-picked scriptures that might support the opposing side of the argument.
None of the scriptures used in the Godhood issue (including John 17) support either side of the argument without twisting them or without ignoring the Holy Bibles six contextual settings.
WickAndTallow, Don't have time to get involved in another lengthy discussion here. See this link for my detailed exegesis on John 17. www.apostolicchristianfaith.com/single-post/2016/10/23/What-Glory-Did-Jesus-Have-With-The-Father-John-175
WickAndTallow - You may as well be asking if God has always been a trinity like the gods of the heathen. Dobt let the Trinitarian translations fool you.
In john 17:5 the bible speaks of a glory that had been reserved for him like a reward or gift Jesus personally was not there Hebrew 2:9 mention that after he gave his live and not before he was crowned with glory.
I'd like someone to explain to me in detail EXACTLY what logos means.
I have heard that it means thoughts,speech ideas,plans bla bla....in the which I ask, when God had a conversation with Satan in Job can we say that God sent or revealed his Logos to Satan?
Job 1:12 (KJV)
And the Lord said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand
www.apostolicchristianfaith.com/single-post/2016/10/24/Is-Jesus-a-God-the-Word-or-God-the-Father%E2%80%99s-Word-Logos-John-11
13:52 Correcting a typo here. The Greek "para" (with) reference is in John 1:39, not verse 49. But it's a good point to be made. 👍
R.I.P. brother Ritchie.
Very good
GENTILE PHIL.. THE DWELLING OF THE HIGH PRIEST , ONLY THE HIGH PRIEST. ,KNOW THE TRUE NAME OF GOD ..THE NEW WORD OF GOD IS I AM MA I..THE LOST GOSPEL...PLS SPREAD AND SHARE THIS MESSAGE TO THE WORLD ..THIS IS THE END OF ALL CONFUSION...
And the Word was God. These words may imply that the Word was a person, since God is a person.
The Word or Logos is the prophetic mind of God, forethought and plan to become the savior.
God the Father became his own Son
The Greek reading of John 1:1
In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God, and God was the word.
How did God create? He spoke his word.
I was reading Acts 11:2 (preparing for Sunday School) ....the word "with" which is translated from the Greek word PROS, is between they of the circumcision and him (Peter).
How did you reason in John 1:1? Why is PROS used there that way?
It doesn't hurt the Oness view that the Word which does indeed turn out to manifest in 14 is spoken of, even the beginning is the same Word that was God, being with Him, that is the thought or mind's will of God Himself.
The Son is still subjugated to the day He was spoken of aforetime, because although God is sovereign, His Word is settled in heaven....God has set His Word above all His name. Once God has spoken or commanded, it is settled.....it was always intended, because God is always sovereign.
According the best of my knowledge from other sources, the apostle John never used the Greek prep "pros" for a person actually being with another person. John always used the prepositions "para" or "meta" for a person actually being with another person (I never said that pros was not used by other NT writers). Since Jesus was with the Father in the sense of being in the mind and plan of the Father, John chose "pros" in John 1:1.
Galatians 2:5 is a good example where the Greek preposition "pros" is used for the impersonal message of the gospel being with (pros) the Galatian Christians:
"So the truth of the gospel may stay with (pros) you (the Galatian Christians)."
In like manner, the apostle John used "pros" for the logos (the expressed message about the predestined thought and plan of God the Father) being with God the Father in John 1:1. John clarified what he meant about the logos of John 1:1 in 1 John 1:1 by calling the human son a "That which was from the beginning (the same beginning - arche as in John 1:1) rather than a living he (son) from the beginning (arche).
Yes I agree that it is not necessary to go into all of these Greek arguments because we can still understand by the English language that Jesus was with the Father in his mind and planning. All I am doing here is adding more ammunition to support Oneness Theology.
....yes, I do remember you saying that of the apostle John. I forgot that. It's in his style....thanks.
I think I will look into the epistles and Revelation.
John14:17 the word "para" is used in relation to the Holy Spirit. Is the Holy Spirit a "God person"? This is not what you seem to teach in your other videos. Any comments most welcome.
Trinity believers say Jhn 1:1-14 is about Jesus being God, I believe it is about God our Father's promise of eternal life given through his word (what he said),through the prophets.
The Word was God means that the Word that was given through the prophets was actually God giving it not the prophets saying things of them-self, it was God speaking it. Jhn 1:1-13 also explains why the Father sent Jesus.
God's Word comes out of his mouth, it is not a person.
Num 30:2 If a man vow a vow unto the LORD, or swear an oath to bind his soul with a bond; he shall not break his word, he shall do according to all that proceedeth out of his mouth.
Deu 8:3 And he humbled thee, and suffered thee to hunger, and fed thee with manna, which thou knewest not, neither did thy fathers know; that he might make thee know that man doth not live by bread only, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of the LORD doth man live.
Psa 33:6 By the word of the LORD were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth.
Isa 55:11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.
1Ki 8:20 “So the LORD has fulfilled His word which He spoke; and I have filled the position of my father David, and sit on the throne of Israel, as the LORD promised; and I have built a temple for the name of the LORD God of Israel.
Lam 2:17 The LORD has done what He purposed; He has fulfilled His word Which He commanded in days of old. He has thrown down and has not pitied, And He has caused an enemy to rejoice over you; He has exalted the horn of your adversaries.
Jhn 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Titus 1:2-3 tells us God's word is his promise.
Tts 1:2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;
Tts 1:3 But hath in due times manifested his word through preaching, which is committed unto me according to the commandment of God our Saviour.
Rom 1:1-3 tells us through the gospel (God's word), God promised by the prophets in the past in the scriptures Jesus.
Rom 1:1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,
Rom 1:2 (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,)
Rom 1:3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
Act 13:23 Of this man's seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus:
1Jo 2:25 And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.
Eph 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
Eph 1:12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Luk 1:1 For as much as many have taken in hand to set forth in order a declaration of those things which are most surely believed among us,
Luk 1:2 Even as they delivered them unto us, which from the beginning were eyewitnesses, and ministers of the word; (The word is not Jesus).
Luk 1:3 It seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first, to write unto thee in order, most excellent Theophilus,
Luk 1:70 is saying God spoke by the mouth of his prophets (The word) which have been since the world began (in the beginning).the horn Of salvation is Jesus
Luk 1:68 Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people.
Luk 1:69 And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David;
Luk 1:70 As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began:
Luk 1:71 That we should be saved from our enemies, and from the hand of all that hate us;
Luk 1:72 To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant;
Luk 1:73 The oath which he swear to our father Abraham,
Luk 1:74 That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear,
Luk 1:75 In holiness and righteousness before him, all the days of our life.
Luk 1:76 And thou, child, shalt be called the prophet of the Highest: for thou shalt go before the face of the Lord to prepare his ways;
part 1
Act 3:21-22 again we see God speaking through his prophets (God's word) since the world began (in the beginning).speaking about the prophet he is to send.
Act 3:21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
Act 3:22 For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.
Act 3:23 And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.
Act 3:24 Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days.
1Jo 1:1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life; (the Word of life is is the Word from John 1:1 which was from the beginning. Notice what they heard, saw, looked upon and handled was not the Word, or the Word of life, it says of the Word of life.
1Jo 2:24 Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.
1Jo 2:25 And this is the promise that he hath promised us,even eternal life.
Phl 2:16 tells us they are holding forth the Word of life, so it isn't Jesus they are holding, but the promise of life.
Phl 2:16 Holding forth the word of life; that I may rejoice in the day of Christ, that I have not run in vain, neither laboured in vain.
Act 13:46 tells us the word of God is about eternal life.
Act 13:46 Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.
John 1:3-13 is about the Father.
Jhn 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Act 4:24-26 tells us the God that made heaven and earth was not Jesus, he is the Christ.
Act 4:24 And when they heard that, they lifted up their voice to God with one accord, and said, Lord, thou art God, which hast made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all that in them is:
Act 4:25 Who by the mouth of thy servant David hast said, Why did the heathen rage, and the people imagine vain things?
Act 4:26 The kings of the earth stood up, and the rulers were gathered together against the Lord, and against his Christ.
Rom 1:1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,
Rom 1:2 (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,)
Rom 1:3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
Rom 16:25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
Rom 16:26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:
2Ti 1:8 Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me his prisoner: but be thou partaker of the afflictions of the gospel according to the power of God;
2Ti 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
2Ti 1:10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:
The Father had life in himself
Jhn 1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
Jhn 5:26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;
Jhn 1:5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
1Jo 1:5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
John came to foretell the coming of the true light in Isa 40:3 (LORD) is Yehovah.
Jhn 1:6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
Jhn 1:7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.
Jhn 1:8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.
Isa 40:3 The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God.
Jhn1:9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
1Jo 1:6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
1Jo 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another,
and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
The Father was in the world through his prophets but the world didn't know him.
Jhn 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
Jhn 17:25 O righteous Father, the world hath not known thee: but I have known thee, and these have known that thou hast sent me.1Jo 3:1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
God chose the Jewish people to be his people but they kept straying from him.
Jhn 1:11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
Deu 7:6 For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.
Mar 7:6 He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.
Jesus said whosoever received him was receiving him that sent him, God.
Jhn 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
Mar 9:37 Whosoever shall receive one of such children in my name, receiveth me: and whosoever shall receive me, receiveth not me, but him that sent me.
Jhn 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
Jhn 12:44 Jesus cried and said, He that believeth on me, believeth not on me, but on him that sent me.
1Jo 3:1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
The Word was made flesh means the promise was fulfilled, if Jesus is the actual Word it wouldn't make sense that he wouldn't have been made flesh at verse John 1:10-11 when it says he was in the world and came onto his own?
Jhn 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Rom 15:8 Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:
The prophets and Moses and the law is where the word of God predicted Jesus' coming.
Jhn 1:45 Philip findeth Nathanael, and saith unto him, We have found him, of whom Moses in the law, and the prophets, did write, Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.
Luk 24:25 Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:
Luk 24:26 Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?
Luk 24:27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.
Luk 24:44 Then He said to them, “These are the words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things must be fulfilled which were written in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms concerning Me.”
Act 26:22 “Therefore, having obtained help from God, to this day I stand, witnessing both to small and great, saying no other things than those which the prophets and Moses said would come-
Act 26:23 “that the Christ would suffer, that He would be the first to rise from the dead, and would proclaim light to the Jewish people and to the Gentiles.”
Act 28:23 So when they had appointed him a day, many came to him at his lodging, to whom he explained and solemnly testified of the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus from both the Law of Moses and the Prophets, from morning till evening.
I think people believe Jesus is the Word because of Rev 19:13, his name is the Word of God, not the Word is God as in John 1:1. Word of God means Jesus is the promise of God.
Rev 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
part 2
When the Word was declare He is already God. Wether the Word is an expressed thought of the Father, the Word was already there, and the Word was already God.
The problem is when this issue become a doctrine instead of following what Christ had commanded to us. He never let us to stuck this kind of principle because it only leds the believer into confusion that create division.The Bible had warn us not to be involve in this kind of discussion about the elementary principle of the world instead the Bible teaches us to walk in faith not by sight by the power of the Holy Spirit through His teaching and prophecy.
The problem of all religion including Oneness and Trinitarian doctrine is they are obsessed of what they learned and understand and make an issue for anything that anything they are right on that area while the Bible teaches us to move forward and become mature in Spirit and in truth by being regularly led by the Holy Spirit to become the sons of God. (Romans 8:14).
Their error is they only led us to their doctrine and never grow into maturity because the Lord has never accept that kind of principle in any walks of religion.
That issue had already answered in the New Covenant and Christ was already given the authority above all things. Why wont we walk through the guidance of the Holy Spirit as everything written in the Scripture how to live in the Father,Son and the Holy Spirit.
A Christian life is not struggling but it is yeilding with the Holy Spirit.If you are yielding with the Holy Spirit then everything will be added into you,physically or spiritually. Keep on asking to the Father in the name of His son by the power of the Holy Spirit.
The scriptures say that "God is Love" and "God is Light." Are Love and Light literally God?
Furthermore, since God calls the things which do not yet exist as though they already existed (Rom. 4:17), Jesus can already be called God, "Your throne O God" (Heb. 1:8) before he was literally called "God" "with us" (Matthew 1:23).
Titus 2:13 13while we wait for the blessed hope-the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ,
2 Peter 1:1 1Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ have received a faith as precious as ours:
What does the Bible say the relationship between God and Jesus is? 1 John 4 v12 to 15? Also 1 John 5 v5?
If Jesus is God Mark 10 v18 would make absolutely no sense.
It makes sense when we believe that Jesus is "God with us" in authentic human existence. For only the miraculous nature of our omnipresent Heavenly Father can come into our world as a human being with a distinct human "life in himself"
while retaining all of His divine attributes in the heavens in His Divine "life in himself" (John 5:26).
The KJV states; "The same was". It has never stated anything but "The same was in the beginning with God." Someone is not telling the truth here. There is one God, and one mediator between God and man, the man Christ Jesus. God is a Spirit, not a man. Jesus is the begotten son of God. Jesus is a man. The Holy Spirit is the Father of the man Jesus. Jesus is the Christ. Praise the one, most high God, who's name is Jesus Christ.
Revelation 19.3 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
Nice explanation of the famous prologue in the fourth gospel. Trinitarians' favorite evidence, through the use the English translations rather than the Greek, as though the English were more reliable. This puts their paradigm in the category of human tradition.
I believe Jesus was a man, approved of God, and God's only begotten son, divinely conceived. But still a human, and not Yahweh incarnate.
I am not of the Oneness perspective, though i know many anti-trinitarians are. Not anti people, but the human doctrine/interpretation/tradition, as being not of God, nor faithful to the scriptures.
I know my non-Oneness status will rub people like petting a cat in the wrong direction, but i am convinced, and no argument will dissuade me. I believe a simple reading of the text, examining crucial Greek terminology (i am not an Attic Greek speaker or expert), will read as monotheistic in the simplest terms, with Yahweh as the one and only God Most High, Jesus as his Anointed, a man who knew of our temptations and was one of us, and the Holy Spirit being the expression of the power of God, and our teacher, and our seal into God's family, unto salvation.
My thoughts, my "discernment," if you will, is that Oneness theology mirrors trinitarian doctrine, except instead of saying that all three exist in one, they say that the one exists as all three. Backwards of the trinity, but still an "explanation," implicit instead of explicit.
Opinions vary, but no unchurched person, unindoctrinated into denominational teaching, would ever arrive at either trinitarianism or Oneness-ism. Both must be inferred, and require dozens of "proof texts," explained in a just-so interpretation of what the scriptures "really" mean.
Nothing personal, it is only church doctrines i take issue with. Oneness believers are rarely convinced otherwise, and are generally associated with the Pentecostal tradition.
I am of no tradition, no church creed or indoctrination, no axe to grind. Both trinitarians and Oneness-ers claim true monotheism, while insisting on some form of three-in-one or one-in-three. I consider neither to be true monotheism, as i do not believe Jesus is or ever was Yahweh, the Creator, the One God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. This, in my humble understanding, as Yahweh alone being the eternal, Living God. Everyone involved in this debate is well aware of the texts, there is no need to quote them, because i am not trying to prove anything. Just to state my conviction. No offense intended, my friends. May God instruct us all, through his paraklete, into all knowledge, as we seek for wisdom and understanding, along this narrow way.
How can Jesus be the paraclete in John 14:16-18 who dwells in all true NT believers (Gal. 4:6; Rom. 8:9)?
How can Jesus fill all things as God (Ephesians 4:10)?
How can Jesus hear and answer prayers (John 14:14) without being omnipresent like God?
Isaiah 46:9 says, "I am God and there is none else. I am God and THERE IS NONE LIKE ME."
ruclips.net/video/pJWe0ot-1mE/видео.html
Global Impact Ministries I know you will have a collection of verses to prove out the Oneness theology, some of which i could only say "i don't know" in answer to. Likewise i could produce a collection of verses that you would have to say the same. Likewise, trinitarians have a large number of verses they have (with the help of the various translators) which prove beyond all doubt that trinitarianism must be the only way to understand God.
My belief is formed out of the entirety of scripture, beginning to end, to be understood as a whole, one long story, and not a collection of 'gotcha' verses.
People are going to believe what they believe, generally what has been taught to them. Did you come by Oneness theology just by reading the whole of God's word to man, start to finish, and sometime after that join the Pentecostal movement because they were also Oneness?
Every group has proof that they're right and everyone else is wrong, "just look at this verse, and this verse, and this verse; how can you deny these verses?" It's the same with every denomination, excluding catholics who make it up as they go, and claim infallability because Jesus gave them the keys to the kingdom, so whatever they say is right.
But everyone isn't right. I asked God to reveal to me if any of my deeply-held beliefs were wrong, and he led me to see that i WAS wrong, on some very important doctrines. Did you? Well done, if you did. Most believers hold their beliefs with with a kung-fu grip, and never question them, relegating all those "other" believers to the sad lot of deceived chumps. Pawns of satan, in need of repentance, in danger of the very fires of hell---but not themselves. They could never be deceived. They're too smart. They just happened to be born into, or stumble into, the one true set of doctrines in the one "right" denomination.
Nobody ever says, "What if I'm wrong?"
If i am wrong, so be it. I don't condemn denominationalists for their set of beliefs, because usually it's just what they were taught; they didn't INVENT their beliefs. I used to be an unbeliever, then a trinitarian, and believed that what i'd been taught was right, and all those other poor saps were deceived, just like everyone in every denomination does. So i don't blame them.
And if Oneness theology is "right," and my "Only God is God" understanding is wrong, how is it a detriment to me? To believe that Yahweh alone is God and creator, that Jesus our Lord was born in Bethlehem as the Son of Man, Yahweh's servant, whose blood destroys the law of sin and death, and that the Holy Spirit proceeded from God to give power, understanding, and conviction, but is neither Yahweh nor Jesus. How does this dishonor the Most High God?
I'm neither of trinity or oneness, and i'm okay with it. I love God, thank Jesus everyday, and seek the wisdom that God may grant me through the teaching of his spirit. If it's somehow a problem, i'll know soon enough. My God bless you on this path, my friend.
Are there not scriptures that show that Jesus Christ as the Son of God existed before His birth in Bethlehem?
The Son of God was foreordained/predestinated and known of his Father before the foundation of world but he didn’t exist until his Father begat him in Mary’s womb. The Son of God is not eternal. He was begotten.
@@kedricmanson9873 "but he didn’t exist until his Father begat him in Mary’s womb" Please explain Daniel 3:25 and PK 509
@@grwaitemdDaniel 3:25 the fourth persons does not tell us this is the 2nd person of a trinity. Jesus was referred to as the Son of man and Jesus also spoke of the Son of man which was in heaven in John 3:13. Therefore the understanding of what normally is understood as Son of man should be considered. Just as Jesus himself never came out to say "I am God manifest in the flesh". The real question is can the Almighty God of the bible choose to be what God chooses to be? While speaking from a burning bush God told Moses that he should be known by the name I AM THAT I AM. Which it has the very meaning: I will become what I will become.
I exist because I exist.
I will be what I will be.
Therefore we are told God can choose to be what God chooses to be. Not that the Son was distinct person with God that was also God just not another God.
@@andrewbrown9497 You state: ". Not that the Son was distinct person with God that was also God just not another God." You are wrong. Read chapter 1 of the book Hebrews. The Son is God who has a God who is His God. His Father and out Father does NOT have another god who is his god. It also says that the Son was made better than the angels. He was brought forth from the bosom of his Father. Read Proverbs 8:22-30.
@@grwaitemdTherefore you believe there's at least two Gods? Please explain.
The bible does tell us there's a distinction between the invisible God and the image of the God. You can look into a mirror and see that for yourself. Although you are not invisible I assume. According to Jesus God is spirit, and we also know a spirit does not have flesh. What was manifest (represented) in the flesh was God but not another God. You might want to make the argument that even king David said "ye are gods" Psalm 82:6 surely this is not what you are referring?
Hebrews 1:10 (KJV)
And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands: 11 They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment;
Was God telling his own thoughts ,which in itself entails thinking, that they had created the heavens?
Remember Hebrews 1 is argument for superiority of the Son above the angels and he does this by showing that speeches addressing angels are way inferior to those addressing the Son
Hebrews 1:10 is a quote from Psalms 102 where the Psalmist speaks of Yahweh alone creating the heavens and the earth by His own Hands.
@@globalimpactministries766
I know that but the inspired Hebrews author identifies the subject of the psalm as Jesus Christ. Are you suggesting he was confused or something?
@@owuorunmasked7969 Yes, Jesus is God who created all things before also becoming a man.
@@globalimpactministries766
Who is telling him that he created the heavens? The inspired Hebrews author tells us it is God addressing Jesus
John 1:1-5
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not [a]comprehend it.
In the beginning WAS the word
And the word WAS with God
He WAS in the beginning with God
All things WERE made through him
Nothing WAS made that WAS made
In him WAS life.
And the life WAS the light of men.
John speaking in the past tense, in the beginning was the word. Where was the beginning? The beginning was the moment God spoke his purpose and shared his prophecy with angels and men. The word was in the beginning with God, in the mind of God.
As in Genesis 17:2-4 God makes a covenant with Abram...
Genesis 17:5 God changes Abram’s name to Abraham.
The covenant that God made with Abram, were echoed in the words of Jesus when he said “Before Abraham was I am” in John 8:58.
Spoken of in Genesis 17:19 “Then God said, “Yes, but your wife Sarah will bear you a son, and you will call him Isaac.[a] I will establish my covenant with him as an everlasting covenant for his descendants after him.”
And in Genesis 49:10 which was confirmed by Luke 3:23-33.
So now that we have established a beginning, these three verses.
“Now the beginning was the word
And the word was with God
He was in the beginning with God.”
Can be understood much more clearly...
......................................................
The next two verses state that,
“All things were made through him
and nothing was made that was made.”
So that, all things were completed through him, so that nothing else was made, apart from the things that God had already imagined, and commanded...
And the next two verses after that state,
“In him was life
and the life was the Light of men”
It can clearly be determined, that these two verses, are written in the past tense, “in him was” and “the life was”...
Now! John is speaking from his own experience, saying in him WAS LIFE...
And that LIFE WAS THE LIGHT OF MEN, again we can see the passion in which John is echoing his emotions...
As in that, he was with us and men were drawn to him...
Jesus amazed, and awakening many, as is expressed in John’s words, the “life was THE LIGHT OF MEN”
The written word “was” is speaking of those who “were” illuminated, by the things that Jesus did and said. (Like John was )
Men became cheerful of the thought of eternal life which Jesus shone, through his light, which leads to eternal life and salvation.
In his book, “Trinity and Incarnation”, Trinitarian scholar Dr. Colin of Fuller Theological Seminary wrote that it is “a common but patent misreading” to read John 1:1 “as if it said, “In the beginning was the Son, and the Son was with God, and the Son was God.”
“It is a common but patent misreading of the opening of John’s Gospel to read it as if it said: “In the beginning was the Son, and the Son was with God, and the Son was God” (John 1:1).” Brown, C. (1991). Trinity and Incarnation: In Search of Contemporary Orthodoxy, Ex Auditu 7. pp. 87-89
Trinitarian Cambridge theologian, Prof. Cupitt wrote that John 1:1 “ought to be retranslated” as “The Word was with God the Father and the Word was the Father’s own Word.”
Here is the full quote from Trinitarian scholar, Dr. Cupitt,
“John’s words ought to be retranslated: “The Word was with God the Father and the Word was the Father’s own Word,” to stress that the Word is not an independent divine being, but is the only God’s own self-expression.”
HOUTO AND AUTO
The Greek pronouns “houtos” and “autos” are usually translated as “this” or “it” throughout the New Testament unless the context indicates that a person is in view. For example, John 6:60 says, “Therefore many of his disciples, when they heard THIS (AUTOU) said, “THIS (HOUTOS) is a difficult SAYING (LOGOS); who can hear IT (AUTOU)?” It is hard to imagine that John 6:60 could be translated as a “he” or “him” in relation to the logos (the saying of Jesus) rather than “this” or “it.” For then the text would read, “Therefore many of his disciples, when they heard HIM said, HE is a difficult SAYING; who can hear HIM.” Obviously, the sayings of Jesus could not be a distinct person beside himself. Nor could the saying (words) of Jesus actually be Jesus himself. Therefore the Trinitarian translators could not identify Jesus as the logos (the saying), so they translated the text as “THIS” and “IT” in relation to the LOGOS rather than a HE or a HIM. The same logical principal should also apply to John 1:1-3 because the text says nothing of a distinct God the Word Person distinct from God the Father in John 1:1.
Global Impact Ministries God bless you, and thank you for your response...
In, John 9 The true light that gives light to everyone was coming into the world. 10 He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. 11 He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. 12 Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God- 13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.
Now, Let’s look at scripture for clarification of meaning,
John 1:9 “The true light that gives light to everyone”......
John 1:10 “And though the world was made through him”............
In the beginning God said “let there be light” in which the world had come into
being in this light was life, and it existed in the light, of men...
How is the world made through him and why does John say though the world WAS made ?
Instead of the world IS made?
What is John 1 verse 10 speaking of?
“The world did not recognise him” Why?
The world WAS made in the physical form, from the breath of God, from the very beginning.
And John is no longer emphasising the spiritual, but physical reality, that all
generations of God’s chosen people, have led down to Jesus Christ the word.
But....
The world (physical) did not recognise him.
Further reinforcing this truth concludes with,
“He came to that which was his own”......
Then,
Verse 13 “children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.”
In a physical sense, the world was made, Just as Jesus was born of God, or made by the breath of the eternal father by his Word...
“Children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision, or a Husbands will, But born of God.”
John is clarifying his meaning that all God’s children are born of God including
Jesus who is made in the flesh (physical).
As in,
14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
Then,
15 (John testified concerning him. He cried out, saying, “This is the one I spoke about when I said, ‘He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.’”) 16 Out of his fullness we have all received grace in place of grace already given. 17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. 18 No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and[b] is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.
“No one has ever seen God but the one and only Son who is himself God and is in closest relationship (important meaning) with the father has made him known,”
How has the father been made known?
Through the completion of all work being accomplished by Jesus.
And in this way the father is made known, through generations of prophecy, that has concluded with the death of Jesus on the cross, for the forgiveness of sins, and the salvation of man, through perpetual faith in God...
The realisation of the father, is made known by Jesus, by the fulfilment of God’s prophecy...
God is the eternal spirit, and Jesus is the eternal flesh, who are manifested as
Father and son. And Spirit and the body together forming the Godhead.
Spirit + Body = One God
This is an interesting study. I have checked the Greek and many of the context these words pros, para and meta are used in the NT. In general what is being taught here is okay, but not as clear as he makes out. The word pros is a difficult word because it is used in many different ways in the NT. The word logos in the Greek is masculine which makes it a little more difficult to grap this man's teaching from a grammatical perspective. In verses 2 & 3 John uses the masculine pronouns for "he" which is gammically correct because John is referring back to the word logos which is masculine. If this man is correct it would have been clearer if John had just used the neuta pronoun for 'it' in verses 2 & 3. But he didn't because that would have been grammatically incorrect. So you see it makes our job difficult in understanding the pre-existence issue. Any comments most welcome.
2 Thessalonians 2:11
“And for this cause
God shall send them strong delusion,
that they
should believe a lie:”
2 Thessalonians 2:12
“That they
all
might be damned who believed not
the truth,
but had pleasure in
unrighteousness.”
Psalms 119:142
“Thy righteousness
is an everlasting righteousness,
and
thy law is the truth.”
Psalms 119:172
“My tongue shall speak of thy word:
for all
thy commandments
are
righteousness.”
2 Timothy 3:16
“All scripture is given by inspiration of God,
and is
profitable for
doctrine,
for
reproof,
for
correction,
for instruction in
righteousness:”
Question please what Profit from those verses
Did you get ?
I pray that this is a Blessing to you.
Bless you
I am interested to find out what you learned. IF you are still around and interested would you share with me?
John 14
Have i been with you so long and still you dont know me Philip, He who has seen me has seen the father.
Jenkins Sahayam - When you deny either the Father or the Son, saying they are the same person or demigods of a pantheon, you believe in the same dieties as the heathen.
About (John 1:1)
Jesus quoted from (Psalms 82:1-6) powerful humans we're Addressed as God's.
(John 10:34-35) Apostle Paul noted that there were many (Gods & many Lords).
(1st Coriethians 8:5) Even Satan is Called the God of this system. (2nd coriethians 4:4)
(John 1:18) Jesus is the only Begotten God & mighty God Isiah 9:6 but not (God Almighty like Jehovah (Exodus 6:3). MOST HIGH (plsams 83:18).
What gets me is, neither side uses the words from the one they claim to serve.....JESUS!!! No matter how they misconstrue what these other books of the Bible might say (although I don’t agree with the opinion of this video nor do I agree with the trinitarian view, because neither coincide with the words Jesus spoke), Jesus’ words would be above any other persons.
Jesus stated in ALL the gospels that there is ONE god (his Father, Yahweh), and he is the son & servant of that one god. Jesus said, “Believe in the Father, AND ALSO believe in me! Believe in BOTH OF THEM! Jesus is not Yahweh. But he is the messiah....the Son of Yahweh, and because of Jesus’ obedience and sacrifice, Yahweh loves him, and has placed everything under his power & authority!
Jason Edwards truth!
Please consider what Jesus said, "Very truly I tell you,"..., "before Abraham was, I AM." The Jews wanted to stone him for blasphemy; he was saying that he was God. Since Jesus is not a liar, that means he IS God Almighty -- for it was the LORD God who spoke with Moses as "I AM." Are you going to deny this, or try and twist his words out of context when Jesus plainly said, "I Am", meaning he is the LORD God? If so, then you need to seriously consider WHY you refuse to believe what Jesus plainly said, and ponder why you won't believe that he is capable of being both God and man at the same time, just like he says he is.
TheBereangirl could that mean he existed? Just as simple as that? I believe in some translations it is “I am he” .
@@fadedglory1045 then why did the Jews want to stone him? -- just for existing? -- before Abraham? Jesus claimed to be the LORD God of the OT when he said that. The italicized "he" is supposed to help us understand the text, it's not in the original Greek.
About (John 1:1)
Jesus quoted from (Psalms 82:1-6) powerful humans we're Addressed as God's.
(John 10:34-35) Apostle Paul noted that there were many (Gods & many Lords).
(1st Coriethians 8:5) Even Satan is Called the God of this system. (2nd coriethians 4:4)
(John 1:18) Jesus is the only Begotten God & mighty God Isiah 9:6 but not (God Almighty like Jehovah (Exodus 6:3). MOST HIGH (plsams 83:18).
The Son was with God in the beginning. And the Son is the radiance of Gods glory and the exact representation of Gods Being. The creation was made through the Son through whom all things came.
Ref "about the Son who was - Hebrews.
So how is the Son all that the Father is?
Paul-The fullness was pleased to dwell in Him.
Who is the Son? - The firstborn of all creation.
Jesus who declared that the Father was the only true God has his own spirit. "Father into your hands I commit my spirit"
The Son who was, His spirit, was in the tent of the body God prepared for Him. And the Father was living in Him. They are One in that manner.
Jesus is the exact image of the wisdom and power of the living God. He is not a angel. The name He inherited is far superior to that of the angels. "Mighty God" Jesus is the heir.
Jesus is what he is because He received from the Father. It is the Father who glorifies Jesus. And all that belongs to the Father also belongs to the Son.
The trinity is far from a lie as the Father is in the Son and all the fullness of the Father dwells in the Son. A Son who has been made Lord and Christ by God Himself. So though heaven and earth move at the command of the Son Jesus abides within the framework of the Fathers will. Those that listen and learn from the Father go to the Son and it is the Fathers will that Jesus raise them up on the last day.
One not need be jealous for the Fathers sake. For it is the Father who has and does glorify Jesus.
In the Son the Father is glorified.
The host in heaven bowed down and worshipped the One on the throne and to the lamb. Jesus was found worthy by God to receive such honor and glory and power.
Randy W. YOU WROTE: The Son was with God in the beginning.
RESPONSE: No Bible verse says that the Son as a living Son was with God in the beginning. What the scriptures do affirm is that the Son was "given dominion and GLORY" in the divine utterances (logos) of God the Father (Dan. 7:13-14). Since God calls the things which be not as though they were (Rom. 4:17) the Lamb is spoken of being "slain from the foundation of the world" just like he was already spoken of as being "the firstborn of all creation" in Col. 1:15. Hence, Jesus was born and slain in the divine utterances of God the Father as the one who was "foreknown before the foundation of the world" (1 Peter 1:20) and was later "granted" a distinct human "life in himself" (John 5:26) as to his true human identity when the fullness of time had come (Gal. 4:4). The Son was made and born of a woman because the Son is the man who was God Himself who "came down from heaven" (John 6:38) as the great "I AM", the Mighty God, and Everlasting Father" who "entered into our world AS A HUMAN BEING" (D.K. Bernard).
YOU WROTE: And the Son is the radiance of Gods glory and the exact representation of Gods Being. The creation was made through the Son through whom all things came.
RESPONSE: The Greek word "charakter" has many nuances of meaning. The full definition is a "copy," or "reproduction" as an "exact representation" of an original.
QUESTION: How can an alleged timeless God the Son have been copied as the reproduction of the Father's Essence of Being (hypstasis in Heb. 1:3) if the Son was always existed as a Son throughout eternity past? I affirm that Jesus is the Essence of Being of the Father's Being/Person who "came down from heaven" on the Hebrew virgin (Luke 1:35; Matthew 1:20) to assume and clothe himself in flesh in true human existence (Luke 2:52; Heb. 2:17).
Since Hebrews 2:7 is a direct quote from Psalm 8:5-6 we know that the Son was appointed by God the Father to have dominion over the works of God the Father's hands. "You (the Father) appointed him (the Son) to have dominion over the works of Your hands (the Father's hands)." Therefore the Son as a Son could not have literally served as a living agent in creation.
God certainly created all things through his foreordained plan (1 Peter 1:20; Ephesians 1:4-5) in which he chose Christ first (Isaiah 43:10-11 "My servant whom I have chosen") and then He "chose us in him (Christ) before the foundation of the world" (Ephesians 1:4-5).
QUESTION: How could an alleged coequal Son have been a GOD THE "CHOSEN SERVANT" before the incarnation while remaining coequally Almighty?
God clearly created all things "in", "for," and "through Christ" because God created all things through His word (logos) which was His Divine Plan for the ages which was centered in Christ, for Christ, and through Christ within God's Divine Utterances.
Think about it this way. No architect will build a building until her first draws up a detailed blueprint out of his mind and thoughts. In like manner, God first chose Christ and then chose his elect throughout the future ages in Christ before the physical world was later created. So it is in the sense that Christ was the blueprint for all of God's future creation that all things were created in, for, and through Christ before the Son was "granted" a true "life in himself."
"As the Father has life in Himself, so also, he has GRANTED the Son LIFE IN HIMSELF." John 5:26
SINCE THE SON'S LIFE WAS GRANTED, THE SON COULD NOT HAVE EXISTED AS A LIVING SON UNTIL HE WAS CONCEIVED IN THE VIRGIN DAUGHTER OF A MAN (a true son of mankind).
YOU WROTE: Who is the Son? - The firstborn of all creation.
RESPONSE: Ho could the Son be "the firstborn of all creation" (Col. 1:15) and "...the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything (Colossians 1:18 NASB) if the Son has always timeless existed? A "firstborn from the dead" Son has nothing to do with a timeless existence. And how exactly can the Son be said to "come to have the first place in everything" if he has always been first place as an Almighty God Person beside the Father? Do you not see that the trinity doctrine is full of holes in all of this? Jesus is as a true human son is called "the firstborn of all creation" (Col. 1:15), "the firstborn from the dead" (Col. 1:18), and "the beginning of the creation OF GOD" (Rev. 3:14) within the Divine Mind and Utterances of God which is the literal meaning for the "logos" of John 1:1.
YOU WROTE: Jesus who declared that the Father was the only true God has his own spirit. "Father into your hands I commit my spirit"
The Son who was, His spirit, was in the tent of the body God prepared for Him. And the Father was living in Him. They are One in that manner.
RESPONSE: John 17:3 is problematic for Trinitarians, not for us Oneness believers. If the Father is "the only true God" then the Son and Spirit must be the manifestations of that only true God the Father. When Jesus said, "Father into your hands I commit my spirit" he was praying as a true human son just as he had been tempted as a true human son.
Since Oneness theologians affirm that "God came into this world AS A HUMAN BEING (Bernard), we have no problem affirming that Jesus as a true human being had to have a true human spirit which he committed to his Father at his death. Since we believe that God first became a man in the incarnation through the virgin, we believe that God became a true human being just like the first Adam. Therefore Jesus as a true human being had to have a human spirit and body just like the first Adam. Hence, the Father's Holy Spirit continued to live in and lead Christ Jesus as a true human being just as all true human prophets needed to have the Spirit of the Father lead them and guide them. Christ's true full humanity does nothing to delete the scriptural evidence that Jesus has always existed as the only true God that the Jews always knew as their Father. It makes no sense that the Hebrew prophets knew nothing of a 3 Person Godhead from Abraham to Moses and from Moses to Christ. Jesus clearly said that the Jews knew what they worshiped "for salvation is of the Jews." We also know what we worship as the true Israel of God because we have been grafted in to the natural olive tree (Israel) through the precious blood of Christ by applying his death, burial, and resurrection into our lives through our faith in him and calling on his name in water baptism (Gal. 3:26-29; Acts 22:16; Acts 10: 48: Acts 2:38).
CONTINUED RESPONSE: YOU WROTE: Jesus is the exact image of the wisdom and power of the living God. He is not a angel. The name He inherited is far superior to that of the angels. "Mighty God" Jesus is the heir.
RESPONSE: Amen! Notice that Jesus inherited his name rather than always possessing his name. This again proves that the Son did not possess the name of Yahweh (Jesus in Hebrew means "Yahweh Saves" - "Yahshua".
QUESTION: Please explain Jer. 23:5-6 where God said, "I will raise unto David a righteous branch...and A KING SHALL REIGN (How could the Son have not reigned as a God the Son during the OT time period?) ... And this is HIS NAME WHEREBY HE SHALL BE CALLED, YAHWEH our righteousness."
Since the scriptural evidence says that the Son "shall be called Yahweh" in the prophetic future, how can you affirm that the Son was a distinct Yahweh God the Son before his virgin conception?
YOU WROTE: Jesus is what he is because He received from the Father. It is the Father who glorifies Jesus. And all that belongs to the Father also belongs to the Son.
RESPONSE: Amen again! It is only as a true human being that Jesus had to receive all authority in heaven and on earth. For how is it possible for an alleged preincarnate living Son to not have all authority in heaven before becoming incarnate (Matthew 28:18)? The only explanation which harmonizes with all of the sciptural data is Oneness Theology. After God also became a true human son via virgin conception, the Father's newly assumed human manifestation had to be given things as a true man or he would not be a true man at all. If Jesus is not the true divine identity as the Mighty God and Everlasting Father in a new human existence then he could not rightly be given all things that belong to the Father. Thus Unitarians and Arians cannot explain God saying, "I am God and there is none else, I am God and THERE IS NONE LIKE ME?" (Isaiah 46:9). Since Jesus is like God in doing the works of God the Father (John 10:37; John 14:14; John 2:17-19; Matthew 3:11; Joel 2:28), he must be that God and Father.
YOU WROTE: The trinity is far from a lie as the Father is in the Son and all the fullness of the Father dwells in the Son. A Son who has been made Lord and Christ by God Himself. So though heaven and earth move at the command of the Son Jesus abides within the framework of the Fathers will. Those that listen and learn from the Father go to the Son and it is the Fathers will that Jesus raise them up on the last day.
RESPONSE: Again, since the Son has "been made Lord and Christ" by God the Father Himself, the Son has to be the new human existence while the Father is the only true God with the only true Divine Existence. If an alleged God the Son was a coequal God Person who is just as Almighty as the Father then how is it that the Son "abides within the framework of the Father's will? Could an alleged God will of the supposed second person of the trinity not have a coequal divine will of his own? If the Divine Will of the Son must always abide within the framework of the Father's Divine Will, how then can the Son be truly coequal as an alleged Almighty Divine Person?
YOU WROTE: The host in heaven bowed down and worshipped the One on the throne and to the lamb. Jesus was found worthy by God to receive such honor and glory and power.
RESPONSE: Yes, the man Christ Jesus is “the Lamb” who is worshiped because Jesus is the true divine identity as a true man.
About (John 1:1)
Jesus quoted from (Psalms 82:1-6) powerful humans we're Addressed as God's.
(John 10:34-35) Apostle Paul noted that there were many (Gods & many Lords).
(1st Coriethians 8:5) Even Satan is Called the God of this system. (2nd coriethians 4:4)
(John 1:18) Jesus is the only Begotten God & mighty God Isiah 9:6 but not (God Almighty like Jehovah (Exodus 6:3). MOST HIGH (plsams 83:18).
So in your Opinion is Jesus God?
Check the truth on John 1 v 1 as most bibles today are like this man says trinitians have translated a lot of bibles we have today but we can go to the Coptic witch is 2000 years ago please check
@@michaelhaigh9182
Oh Okay. Can u please send a link
@Sharon L
I know, thanks for the response. But I have a question. Did Jesus exist before his birth?
If not Who is the us in Genesis 1:26
And why does some New Testament scriptures say that Jesus Created all things?
Why does Revelation says that he is the first and the last?
And some uses 1 Corinthians 10:4 and 9 to prove that he was the Old testamemt God.
It is okay to know the truth. But sometimes hard to back it with scripture.
So please, I would like to hear your view of the verses I listed above
@Sharon L Thanks for the lesson. It was helpful. So when God said let *US* make man in our own image, was he speaking to Christ in advance? I don't think it is the angels, because they aren't made in his image
@Sharon L
And jesus christ said. "Father, glorify me with the glory I had with you before the world began".
If jesus didn't exist untill his earthly life then how was he glorified with the father before the world began?? Also, by jesus was all things created. Nothing was made without him!! 🙌
1 timothy 3:15 But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth. Other than that is a heretic
Mich of the confusion leading to the belief among trinitarians that God is a trinity of persons is based on faulty reasoning.
God has always been a duality of Spirit not of persons. God is, and always has been,Spirit/ Spirit, Soul,and Body.
John said that no man has seen God at any time (John 1:18).
This is refering to the Father. However, God has always had a visible body. This is proven many times in the old testament.
The Word says that Adam was made in Gods' image and likeness. Meaning that God is Spirit, Soul, and body. He has always had a visible presence just as Adam was visible.
The only time God is mentioned having a visible presence in the old testament is when the Angel of the Lord is mentioned.
This Angel never appeared to the prophets as a messenger of God, but always speaks to them in the first person.
This Angel is also refered to as the Word. In John it is written that the Word became flesh, meaning Jesus Christ.
This description of God doesn't violate the truthful Oneness doctrine,( I myself am Oneness pentecostal).
God is not a trinity of persons, but in order to be manifest to man God took on a body. This is where the duality of Spirit/ spirit occured.
Jesus Christ is God made visible, and for the purpose of His death at calvary, He took on a body of flesh. Having a duality of Spirit the Father and the Son can occupy one body and becsuse of the joining of the Father, who is a Spirit, with the Son, who has a spirit, they are one person.
What did the Lord tell His apostle, " If you have seen me then you have seen the Father"( John 14:9).
We know as christians that there is only one Holy spirit. However, the Holy Spirit is described as both the Spirit of God( Father) and the Spirit of Christ( Rom.8:9).
When a believers recieves the Holy Spirit which is One Spirit that when joined with our spirit all become one Spirit/spirit.
As the Lord said," I and the Father are one"( John 10:30).
If there was ever a mathmatical equation describing how God views spiritual union it would be: 1+1=1.
While I believe that the translation of the word in John 1 should be a it and not a him I do not see it as proof that it was in the original Greek writers mind especially when we see in Matthew 5 that the Tensdale translation something that should have been a it into a him.
Mat 5:29 Wherfore yf thy right eye offende ye plucke hym out, and caste him from the. Better it is for the that one of thy membres perisshe then that thy hole bodye shuld be cast into hell. Mat 5:30 Also if thy right honde offend the cut hym of and caste hym from the. Better that ys that one of thy membres perisshe then that all thy body shulde be caste in to hell.
The logos.
When the angels give glory to God in heaven, do the angels are glorifying God as an idea? Of course not. The Angels glorified God as a divine person or being and not as a divine idea. When Jesus was glorified by God and Jesus in turn glorified God before the world was, Jesus was glorifying God as a divine being and Jesus was also glorified by God as a divine being and not as an idea or logos. In John 8:24, Jesus said that he came out from the Father. This simply means that Jesus was originally from the inside of the Father (or in the bosom of the Father. See John 1:18 KJV). In a certain day in eternity and perhaps before the beginning of creations, God already begot his Son (See psalms 2:7 and Hebrews 5:5) whom John called as God's word/logos or spokesman. The claim that Jesus was God's idea or plan which became flesh only when born of Mary is lacking understanding on the whole gamut about Jesus Christ, as the Son of God..
Life was in the beginning with God
1 John 1:2 says, "That which was from the beginning" referencing the word (divine utterance of the Father) before saying that "the life was manifested" after the Son was "granted" a human "life in himself" (John 5:26). "The hope of eternal life" was "promised before the ages began" (Titus 1:2) is not the same thing as saying that the life of the Son OF God literally existed as a living Son when the Son's life was promised. Many scriptures specifically state that the Son did not exist until after his virgin conception (Psalm 2:7; Heb. 1:5; 2 Samuel 7:14; John 5:26; Luke 1:35; Matthew 1:20; Hebrews 1:3; Hebrews 2:17).
@@globalimpactministries766 I wasnt saying that christ life was in the beginning i was saying the utterance from the Father was life. That life dwell on the earth and became flesh
Okay! The hope of eternal life was uttered by God the Father and that word of life was later made flesh to become the living Son of God via virgin conception. For our One true God also became one true man within the Hebrew virgin.
@@globalimpactministries766 God is not a man. He is a spirit. Now Christ is only begotten Son of God. So Jesus is not God but the Son of God..
Andre Johnson, The Scriptural evidence proves that our omnipresent Heavenly Father also manifested Himself in the flesh (1 Tim. 3:16) to become fully human in every way (Heb. 2:17). ruclips.net/video/-9VDvZCFXFI/видео.html
Jesus is God almighty
I think Unitary Monotheists and Oneness people agree on this topic.
The Trinitarian belief that the word is Jesus, and not God's word, is false and completely made up in the mind and read into the text mentally by Trinitarians, which is called eisegesis. Wow.
Revelation 19.3 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
@@rtineigrihms8422 The word of God was given by many in the bible. The Prophets, Angels, and Jesus. Are all of these God?
I. AM. MA I phil.
ownname, ownnew name
Rev..Phil...3,7,13
I will inscribe on them the name of my god,and in the city of my god,the new jerusalem which come down from my god in rhe heaven,and IN MY OWN NEW NAME ..AS WELL...
I am means Christ the Son of God deferent from THE God...
If "God was the Express Thought" as you say, then logically, when the "Express Thought became flesh and dwelt among us" then Jesus was God in flesh, because "God was the Express Thought." The Express Thought is PERSONAL, because God was the Express Thought., and God is personal.
The Personhood of the Word is all over the verse.
Jesus Himself said
"Glorify Me with the glory I had with You before the universe was." Jesus is a Person, and He's talking there about the PERSONAL and ETERNAL relationship He had with the Father.
He was a LIVING SON before the universe was-- HE JUST WASN"T A MAN YET until born in the flesh.
Philippians 2 says,
"Who, being in very nature a God, did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage; rather, HE MADE HIMSELF nothing by taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness. And being found in appearance as a man, HE HUMBLED HIMSELF by becoming obedient to death- even death on a cross!"
I bolded the bold text there to highlight that a PERSON did these things, BEFORE His incarnation.
We know that the scriptures state that God expressed His divine plan for the ages before the beginning of human time. Isaiah 41:4 states that God called forth “the generations from the beginning” i.e. all generations of human history. The apostle Peter wrote in 1 Peter 1:20 that Christ was, “foreknown before the creation of the world”. Hence, all things about the Son of God were already “foreknown” and expressed by God before the beginning of human time. This is why the apostle John was led to use the Greek word “logos” in John 1:1.
The context of Heb. 1:8-9 is a Messianic prophecy from Psalm 45:6-7 which says that the Messiah would be called “God” while also having a God. For the scriptures affirm that the Son of God would be exalted by God to sit on “the throne of God” (Rev. 22:3) which inspired scripture reveals is the throne of David (as the throne of Yahweh - 1 Chronicles 29:23). Psalm 45:6-7 and Heb. 1:8-9 could not be addressing a pre-incarnate God the Son because the text says, “your God has anointed you”. If a pre-incarnate God the Son had a God and was anointed by his God before the incarnation, then that Son would be an Arian Son rather than a Trinitarian Son.
Wherefore, Jesus as a child born and son given was already called “God” in God's logos (His expressed thought) before his virgin conception and birth. The human child born and son given can also be called “God” because he was the reproduced copy of the Father's Being as a fully complete human being (Heb. 1:3; Heb. 2:17). This explains why Jesus as the expressed thought of God (logos) was already addressed by the Psalmist as God when he wrote, “Your throne O God”. For God as God is “the only true God” the Father, but God also became a true man who would also be called “God with us” (Matthew 1:23) in the prophetic future.
Jesus already had glory with God the Father because that glory was "given" to him. John 17:22 says, "the glory which you have given me I have given them." John 17:24 says, "that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for You loved me before the foundation of the world."
In like manner Daniel 7:13-14 says, "I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.
And there was GIVEN HIM dominion, and GLORY, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed."
How could Jesus have been "given glory" as an alleged coequal divine God Person? Jesus was clearly given glory and authority over all things (Matthew 28:18) because God had to exalt "the man Christ Jesus" or he would not have been a true man at all.
"God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name." Phil. 2:9
The Berean Literal Bible correctly conveys the meaning of Philippians 2:6-8
"6Who, existing in the form of God,
did not consider to be equal with God something to be grasped, 7but emptied Himself, having taken the form of a servant, having been made in the likeness of men. 8And having been found in appearance as a man He humbled Himself, having become obedient unto death, even the death of the cross."
How could an alleged coequal true God Person have the capacity to "not consider to be equal with God something to be grasped" when he would have already been fully equal with God to begin with? The only proper exegetical interpretation is that the man Christ Jesus with his post incarnational human will did not consider equality with God something to be grasped. Hence, Philippians 2:6-8 is not addressing a pre-incarnate "Christ Jesus" (verse 5), but a post incarnate Christ Jesus who continually humbled himself by refusing to grasp after his divine prerogatives as "God with us" in true human existence.
Global Impact Ministries yes, that is true. God’s plan and purpose are from eternity. But that doesn’t contradict the Eternal Personhood of the Son.
“And God was the Word” as the Greek says in John 1 doesn’t allow for the Word to be merely a thought or a plan, no matter how pre-existent the plan was. God is not merely a plan or even His thoughts.
@@sketchbook1 Since Romans 4:17 says that God calls the things which be not as though they were, the son of God was already called "God" before the foundation of the world.
Furthermore, God's divine attributes such as His Love and Light are called "God" in 1 John (God is love and God is light). God's word further says that God's Wisdom, and Strength are "with Him" and "belong to Him."
Job 12:13 says, "With God is wisdom and strength; counsel and understanding belongs to him." So God's word and wisdom can be said to be with God and belonging to God in John 1:1.
Global Impact Ministries you’d rather have a strange polytheism than the actual deity of Christ?
How do you handle verses like: “For in Christ all the Fullness of the Godhead dwelt bodily” (Col 1:19)
Or
“The Church of God, which He bought with His own blood.”
(Acts 20:28)?
So in Genesis ,it says Genesis 1:26 KJV
[26] And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
Somebody is with God the Father! And who was that ? For sure it was Jesus Christ! And also according to the scripture Jesus will come back to Judge the Living and the dead! Here in Revelation: Revelation 14:7 KJV ( It is clear that Jesus will do the Judgment & here it is clear that Jesus Christ Created the heaven and Earth and the Sea and fountains of waters, in short Jesus Christ is the CREATOR!!!
[7] Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.
The Trinity interpretation would have God speaking to God. So it should read "And God said to God". Thus your Trinity interpretation cannot stand. Who was God speaking to? His Heavenly Court which surrounds Him!
@@globalimpactministries766 was 'heavenly council' participants in creation? Were they co-creators?
@@owuorunmasked7969Angels were advisers.
@@globalimpactministries766
Doesn't Isaiah tell us He was alone? Now he needed advice and invited them to participate in creation?
Isaiah 44:24 (KJV)
I am the Lord that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;
no more trinity fo me.thanks be to God!
There is not like in the beginning God don't have beginning and end ok,God is one no son no begotten no wife ok.
God said am the only true God.
Forget about Mary have a virgin born,Mary's pregnancy is God miracle God only show people that if he said be and it will be.
Let there be light and there is light that the word of God for sure only people twisting the translation.
Genesis 19:24 Then the LORD rained down burning sulfur on Sodom and Gomorrah--from the LORD out of the heavens.
There are so many texts that show the Angel of the LORD is YWHW Himself yet YWHW is also in heaven. There is so many things you have missed in your old Testament.
Who led the people out of Egypt? God right?
Jude 1:5 Now I want to remind you, although you once fully knew it, that Jesus, who saved a people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe.
There are many texts showing that God spoke, acted, and revealed Himself through angelic agency. See my RUclips Video: Did Christ Appear to Abraham? ruclips.net/video/JkkvJ188q08/видео.html
Jude 1:5 does not list "Jesus" in the Greek texts. However, Oneness believers affirm that Jesus is "Yahweh" our "Savior" who always exists outside of the incarnation as our "Mighty God" and "Everlasting Father." Therefore even if Jude 1:4-5 is addressing Jesus as the one who saved His people out of the land of Egypt we know that Jesus would have done so as God the Father rather than as a begotten Son. For the Son was not conceived and born until the fullness of time had come (Luke 1:35; Mathew 1:18-23; Heb. 1:3; Heb. 2:14-17).
kevlar kevin - Every messenger that God has sent was an angel of the Lord.
Those same angels would correct you for making a golden calf out of them.
Jehovah is almighty God and Jesus is called mighty one 2 different titles
It was Jehovah who led them out of Egypt as he only calls him self God almighty Jesus is never called that ?
God's spoken word was in the beginning with God. God created the all through His spoken word. The Son isn't the Creator. The Father is the only Creator Source and Cause of the all . The Son is the Source of nothing.
The WORD OF GOD IS THE GREAT DECEIVER OF ALL TIME ...THE WORD IS FINALLY REVEALED, THE WORD WAS MAN...THE WORD OF GOD IS ..,I AM THAT I AM...THE WORD MADE FLESH IS .MEN ...ADAM AND EVE HE CREATED THEM..PLURAL OF MAN IS A MEN NOT AMEN..AMEIN..ITS FOR AMEN RA .SUN GOD OF EGYPT .
Hebrew Dabar (word) of God Yehovah
vs
Greek logos(word) in Greek theology
While in Hebrew Dabar refers to only strictly word, in Greek development has conferred person of a second level god that created the rest to the meaning of logos which when imported into the gospel being preached to people of idolatrous Greek culture background infused this idolatrous theology into the message which became a perverted syncretism instead of the pure gospel of God Yehovah the true God.
Psalm 29:4 ASV
The voice of Jehovah is powerful; The voice of Jehovah is full of majesty.
Genesis 1:1 ASV
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
Psalm 33:9 ASV
For he spake, and it was done; He commanded, and it stood fast.
Isaiah 48:13 ASV
Yea, my hand hath laid the foundation of the earth, and my right hand hath spread out the heavens: when I call unto them, they stand up together.
the Dabar (word) of Yehovah the Almighty God is powerful creative and life giving but is neither a person in any form nor god unlike the logos of Greek theology
Deuteronomy 13:4 ASV
Ye shall walk after Jehovah your God, and
fear him, and
keep his commandments, and
obey his voice, and
ye shall serve him, and
cleave unto him.
1 Kings 18:21 ASV
And Elijah came near unto all the people, and said,
HOW LONG GO YE LIMPING BETWEEN THE TWO SIDES?
IF JEHOVAH BE GOD, FOLLOW HIM;
but
if Baal, then follow him.
And the people answered him not a word.
Joshua 24:14 ASV
Now therefore
FEAR JEHOVAH, AND SERVE HIM
IN SINCERITY AND IN TRUTH;
and put away the gods which your fathers served beyond the River, and in Egypt; and
SERVE YE JEHOVAH.
Psalm 119:142,151,160 ASV
Thy righteousness is an everlasting righteousness, And
THY LAW IS TRUTH.
[151] Thou art nigh, O Jehovah; And
ALL THY COMMANDMENTS ARE TRUTH.
[160] The sum of
THY WORD IS TRUTH;
And every one of thy righteous ordinances endureth for ever.
Psalm 19:9,11 ASV
The fear of Jehovah is clean, enduring for ever:
THE ORDINANCES OF JEHOVAH ARE TRUE, and righteous altogether.
[11] Moreover by them is thy servant warned:
In keeping them there is great reward.
Psalm 119:165 ASV
Great peace have they that love thy law; And they have no occasion of stumbling.
Deuteronomy 6:4,25 ASV
Hear, O Israel: Jehovah our God is one Jehovah: [25] And it shall be righteousness unto us, if we observe to do all this commandment before Jehovah our God, as he hath commanded us.
Genesis 15:1,6 ASV
After these things the word of Jehovah came unto Abram in a vision, saying, Fear not, Abram: I am thy shield, and thy exceeding great reward. [6] And he believed in Jehovah; and he reckoned it to him for righteousness.
Jesus said "before Abraham, I AM"
Boom exloded your false teaching. How much does Christ life before the world was created effect your sanctification?
Yes, Jesus has always existed as the Mighty God and as the Everlasting Father before also becoming the Christ child as the child that was born and the son that was given.
About (John 1:1)
Jesus quoted from (Psalms 82:1-6) powerful humans we're Addressed as God's.
(John 10:34-35) Apostle Paul noted that there were many (Gods & many Lords).
(1st Coriethians 8:5) Even Satan is Called the God of this system. (2nd coriethians 4:4)
(John 1:18) Jesus is the only Begotten God & mighty God Isiah 9:6 but not (God Almighty like Jehovah (Exodus 6:3). MOST HIGH (plsams 83:18).
Global Impact Ministries wow. When was God ever called a prince? I thought 9.6 was about a King. Some one needs a history lesson in false proof texts to justify a false doctrine.
@frankie lopez - before Abraham I existed, this is not identical with Exodus, tell them I AM has sent you... in Exodus the words are NOT Ego Eimi (I am/existed) but rather HO ON(the eternal one)... using I AM to make Jesus say he was claiming to be YHWH is trinitarian garbage and false.
@@jiohdi
I am the bread of life!
I am the good shepherd!
I am the way
I am the resurrection and the life.
Incase there was any doubts. Indeed jesus is I am
In the Firstborn of all creation the fullness was gifted not formed.
Colossians 1:19 -from the will of another
This also speaks of another
all things have been created through him and for him.
The Firstborn was with the Father before all other things.
Jew worship God the Father in the O.T. Christian in the N.T worship Jesus Christ. I pray to Father to send Holy Ghost back in my name. You must be born again. Filled with the Holy Spirit. In order to live a spirit filled life. To born into the Kingdom of God. 3 Godhead equals power. We one at time. He that denied the Father or Son is Anti-Christ.
The Trinity is a false doctrine. Jesus has a God. Let’s count, God, Jesus , the Father, and the Holy Spirit makes 4. Jesus never ever ever said that he was Yahweh. The Bible does not teach a godman. The Bible says God is a man.
What do we know about the knowledge of St John’s Greek?! How much Greek did St John knew when he wrote his Gospel?! Did he thought Greek as well or he thought in Hebrew and then wrote In Greek?!
This is false teaching.. The Word is clear.. Jesus is The Beginning and the ending. The Almighty.
Jesus is God in The Flesh.
Revelation 1:8 KJV - I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
This is full of shit as if Jesus is not God, then he cannot be the savior
If you were an Egyptian during the time of Joseph when he was "in charge" and you SAW Joseph and he SPOKE to you, who would you be SPEAKING with? You would be SPEAKING with "Pharaoh"! Joseph was Pharaoh "in the flesh" for the acknowledged Divine Pharaoh himself had made him as Pharaoh. The same can be said of Moses when he was in front of "his" Pharaoh, i.e. he was God "in the flesh", for Yahweh God had made him to be as "God" before Pharaoh. BOTH of theses Men, i.e. Divines "in the flesh", were APPOINTED to be "Gods" if you will - Pharaoh just being another way of saying "God".
In similar fashion Jesus was made to be "God" to the World, by Yahweh God Himself, WHEN Jesus was BEGOTTEN or CONCEIVED in his Mother's virgin womb. Therefore, when we see the Man Christ Jesus "in the flesh" we see him as "God", for he is Yahweh God's APPOINTED or ANOINTED ONE and NOT because he IS Yahweh GOD Himself.
The fact that Jesus was actually BEGOTTEN of Yahweh God does not argue for Jesus actually being either God Himself or another type of God, i.e. Oneness, Modalist, Binitarian, Trinitarian, or Polytheist. Yes, Jesus is our "God", our "Supreme Head and Judge", by virtue of his being God's ANOINTED ONE, the "firstborn" of all creation, the Son of God, the "Head of the Church". However, he has always been a Man and will forever be a Man, albeit an IMMORTAL Man and NOT a DIVINE BEING as is Yahweh God the Father.
Heb 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
Heb 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by [his] Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
(My note: "by whom also he made the worlds" can also be translated as "by reason of whom also he made the ages", i.e. everything was made and is being made with the HEIR in mind, for his glory)
We see that Yahweh God had not spoken to the "Fathers" through Jesus but through His Prophets for Jesus had not been BEGOTTEN as yet. Jesus, as an actual BEING, PERSON, ENTITY, had not existed before he was actually BEGOTTEN by Yahweh God in his mother's womb. When the actual physical "seed" was implanted in Mary THEN is WHEN Jesus ACTUALLY BEGAN TO HAVE LIFE. Prior to conception he "existed" in a divine figure of speech in this fashion:
Rom 4:17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, [even] God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which BE NOT as THOUGH THEY WERE.
People who believe that Jesus himself existed BEFORE his conception and birth fail to understand that Yahweh God, when referring to His ANOINTED ONE in the Scriptures, uses language that SEEMS as if Jesus, the Messiah, "were already in existence" despite the FACT that he wasn't as yet. It is this type of language that CERTIFIES that which Yahweh God says will, without any doubt, come to FULL FRUITION.
No doubt the Father, God Himself, and the Son, ACT in perfect accord. Why? Because the Son always does the will of the Father, not because they are ONE Being or ONE Person or ONE Essence or a COMBINATION of sorts. Anyone who does the will of the Father is "One" WITH the Father and the Son, but being "One" WITH the Father and the Son does NOT make anyone the Father nor the Son.
Jesus NEVER deviated from the Father's will; He did the Father's WILL. There were not TWO "wills" when it came to the Father and the Son but there were TWO distinct Beings, i.e Persons.
John 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not MINE OWN WILL, but the WILL OF the Father which hath sent me.
John 10:30 I and [my] Father ARE ONE.
Luke 2:49 And he said unto them, How is it that ye sought me? wist ye not that I MUST be about my Father's business?
Luke 2:52 And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man.
How can an all knowing God "increase in WISDOM and STATURE"? Well, He CANNOT but someone, a Man who is appointed as Messiah, who starts off as a babe, a child, CAN grow in the knowledge of the LORD God. That is what MEN do!
Paul Navarro - Most of what you said is true from the scriptures you cited. However, you are neglecting many important scriptures that prove Jesus pre-existed his virgin conception (John 6:38; John 8:58; 1 Tim. 3:16) and that he holds attributes that can only held by God Himself.
John 14:14 "If you shall ask anything in my name, I will do it".
John 10:37-38 Jesus did the works of God the Father by raising his own body from death (John 2:19), sending the Holy Spirit (Joel 2:28; Luke 24:49; Matthew 3:11), hearing and answering prayers (John 14:14), and indwelling all true NT believers as "the Spirit of truth" (John 14:17-18; Col. 1:27; Romans 8:9; Gal. 4:6; 2 Cor. 3:17).
How can you affirm that Jesus is only a man without denying all of these scriptures? And how can you affirm Isaiah 46:9 is true without seeing a clear contradiction?
"I am God and there is none else. I am God and THERE IS NONE LIKE ME" (Isaiah 46:9).
Since Jesus ("Emmanuel God with us" - Matthew 1:23) is like God in being omnipresent to hear and answer prayers, sending the Holy Spirit of God the Father, and raising his own body from death, we know that Jesus is the only one like God in doing the works of God the Father Himself.
Basically, the Scriptures are AFFIRMING his "pre-existence" in Yahweh God's PLAN for him since ancient days, as I indicated by God's use of language designating such. Jesus ALSO affirms such language when,
John 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
Why could Jesus unhesitatingly say such a thing? Because he actually existed in another form before Abraham? No. He "pre-existed" Abraham because he was the "seed" SPOKEN of by God in Genesis. Even though the "seed" had NOT as yet been planted, i.e. in Mary, it was already a "done deal" as far as YHWH God was concerned, that which proceeds out of His mouth, being IRREVOCABLE and TRUE.
Therefore Jesus, as the Ancient PROMISED "seed", the future Heir of all things, was GREATER than Abraham by virtue of his predestination as the Messiah. Jesus was SIMPLY acknowledging that he himself was that "seed" spoken of by God centuries BEFORE Abraham was even born. He was NOT claiming to be "Deity"; he was claiming to be the "Heir" of all things.
As for the "things" which Jesus DID. Well, they can easily be explained due to the FACT of his being made "God" to man, by YHWH God Himself. Moses could not of his "own power" have done the Mighty Deeds he DID without being given such Power/Authority by YHWH God Himself. Was Moses YHWH God Himself because he had been given God's personal Power, i.e. the Spirit of God? Of course not.
When Pharaoh was "seeing" Moses he was ACTUALLY "seeing" Yahweh God, but HOW, in what fashion, for Moses was "just" a Man? Pharaoh was "seeing" Yahweh God in the POWER which had been given to Moses; to Pharaoh there was no doubt that the POWER "behind" Moses was ANOTHER God - as opposed to Rah or Osiris - and not this "mere" Man in front of his face. The Eastern concept of "God" is not like our Western concept as you well know.
I affirm Isaiah for there NEVER has been anyone "like" or the "same" as God; YHWH God is SINGULARLY apart from any other Being; no one can MATCH Him. No where in scripture is it said that the "seed" would be EQUAL with YHWH God; the "seed' would be "God" to the People of YHWH God, the "children of YHWH God", as Moses was "God" to the People.
However, Moses was only given SOME of God's Spirit or Power; it was given to him "in measure". Moses was begotten by "flesh" whereas Jesus "came in the flesh" but was not begotten by "flesh". By virtue of the FACT that Jesus' actual Father was/is YHWH God Himself, Jesus is GREATER than any Man who has ever lived, but he is still "just" a Man, albeit an UNIQUE Man. God did not and does not withhold any of His Spirit to His Son.
John 3:34 For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure [unto him].
John 3:35 The Father loveth the Son, and hath GIVEN ALL THINGS INTO HIS HAND.
So yeah, I can empathize with those who THINK somehow that Jesus MUST be God Himself because of the POWERS which God Himself has GIVEN to him. It is difficult to detach ourselves from "Jesus is God" especially with the centuries old DECEPTION of a so called "Trinity" being so insidious and so rooted in the our minds. Our Western minds cannot comprehend the idea of an Eastern mind which can easily "see" the difference between a being who IS Absolute in Authority and another being who HAS BEEN GIVEN Absolute Authority over others UNDER him.
Jesus is NOT Omnipresent for he STILL has a Human body in Heaven, albeit an IMMORTAL Human body. He cannot be present everywhere nor can he "hear" everyone's prayers. The Spirit of God is OMNIPRESENT and can "hear our prayers" which are directed to the Father; if our prayers line up with what OUR "God", our "Head", Jesus himself has said in the WRITTEN WORD, i.e. they are in accord with Jesus's will; "in his name", then the Father will "hear" and give us our petitions.
You are not being truthful. Jesus also said that Abraham rejoiced to see my day and he saw it and was glad. Also, look at the context of Jesus' words in John 8. The Pharisees said, "You are not yet 50 years old and have you seen Abraham? Jesus acknowledged that he not only saw Abraham but that Abraham saw him.
If Jesus is not omnipresent then please explain Ephesians 4:10, Galatians 4:6, and Romans 8:9. Also, how could Jesus say, "If you shall ask anything in my name, I WILL DO IT" if he cannot hear prayers? You responded by saying that the Father answers the prayers but Jesus clearly said, "I WILL DO IT."
Global Impact Ministries - If You believe I am not being "truthful" then there is nothing else to consider. That's as far as I went in reading your comment.
Global Impact Mjnistries
I disagree that Jesus had an actual prehuman existence other than he was in the mind and heart of God as his means/plan of salvation. Each of the scriptures you quote can easilly be explained from the point of view that Jesus was a righteous sinless man who proved faithful to God to undo the wrong committed by Adam.
Jesus is the man promised from heaven. He did not have to preexist other than in the mind of God. He came into being when he was conceived miraclously by his father to Mary his mother. God was with him and doing his works through him.
John 1:14 is when Jesus was baptised and Jesus and his father became one in purpose to do Gods will. Jesus was filled with the power and (the logos) to do Gods will, anointed and chosen as the Messiah king. This was in fulfilment of Deut 18:15 and Isa 11:2.
Men do not preexist their mothers or forefathers that ridiclous!
** Acts 10:38 And you know that God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power. Then Jesus went around doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with him.
Global Impact Ministries - Up UNTIL 18 minutes, I was COMPLETELY "with" YOU, that is, "in agreement". Why? Because you were correctly EXEGETING the "word".
Suddenly, though, you STOPPED and STARTED to use philosophy, i.e. "For the distinction between the Father and the Son is an ontological distinction only because it occurred in a specific time in history. For our only true God the Father was able to retain His unchangeable divine attributes in the heavens as the "One God and Father", while He simultaneously became a distinct human person as a true man (a true Son) through the virgin."
Just like there is no "trinity" definition in scripture, that is, 3 divine persons IN one divine being, there is no "simultaneously" becoming ANOTHER or the SAME "distinct human person". The same arguments against the so called "trinity" can be used against your position, call it what you will.
It is MOST unfortunate that people just CANNOT get over what scripture says EXACTLY. God the Father, Who was in the beginning, and had Jesus "in mind" SINCE that time, ACTUALLY begot Jesus, a HUMAN, yea a UNIQUE human, when he was CONCEIVED in the womb of the virgin. Nowhere is it stated that "God BECAME a Man" as you suggest.
THE PLAN, a THING, came to fruition when the WORD (not Jesus) was "made flesh". God YHWH also BECAME "the Father" WHEN He engendered Jesus in Mary's womb. YHWH was NEVER called or known as "the Father" UNTIL Jesus first uttered the words, "How is it that ye sought me? wist ye not that I must be about my Father's business?"
Therefore, since the "begetting" of Jesus, we have God YHWH being God "the Father" and Jesus, a Man, being God's "son". He was/is God's ANOINTED ONE or Messiah just as Moses and Saul and David and Solomon had been. Jesus however is the ULTIMATE Messiah; no other will come after him; he was made Lord of all CREATION after his resurrection by God.
He was born as a Man, lived as a Man, died as a Man, was resurrected as a Man, and is in Heaven as a Man, and will return to rule on earth as a Man. He and the Father are NOT "simultaneously" God. Jesus is a human creature, just like you and I, albeit IMMORTAL. There is but ONE God, YHWH God, whom we now know as "the father"; Jesus is a Man who is the "son of God" by virtue of being "Begotten" of God and not by human flesh.
I know that ONE verse will not be sufficient to EXPLAIN what I have just said, nevertheless, here are THREE that CLEARLY state who is who:
1Tim 2:3 For this [is] good and acceptable in the sight of GOD OUR SAVIOUR (My note: YHWH, the Father, Who is our Saviour);
1Tim 2:4 Who (My note: referring back to YHWH) will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
1Tim 2:5 For [there is] ONE God (My note: referring back to YHWH, the Father), and ONE mediator (My note: someone SEPARATE from God and Men, i.e. sinners) between God (My note: YHWH) and men, the MAN (my note: not God nor God/man nor Divine) Christ (God's ANOINTED Man) Jesus;
The problem with the "trinity" is the DEIFICATION of Jesus which is the very same problem with your "position", as I said before, "whatever you want to call it." Simply KEEP Jesus as a MAN, yea an IMMORTAL Man, and you will do just fine.
2Cor 11:1 Would to God ye could bear with me a little in [my] folly: and indeed bear with me.
2Cor 11:2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present [you as] a chaste virgin to Christ.
2Cor 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the SIMPLICITY that is in Christ.
2Cor 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth ANOTHER JESUS, whom we have not preached, or [if] ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with [him].
If you need a "theologian" to EXPLAIN your "position" than more than likely your "position" is TOO COMPLICATED and therefore WRONG.
Please post another comment after January 7th as I am flying out to LA to debate Dr Edward Dalcour. If you post another comment you can remind me to respond to you later. Thanks for your patience.
You can go to my video entitled, "A Refutation of Arianism and Unitarian Socinianism" which clearly highlights what I see as the error of your position.
Acknowledged
FOOL ....IF THE WORD WAS GOD...THE WORD OF GOD IS ....I A GOD..THAT I A GOD
THE WORD THAT WAS MADE FLESH IS...GOD ADAM...EVE....GODDESS..GODS....PLURAL...
THE WORD WAS MAN ...
I AM THAT I AM
MAN ADAM...EVE...MEN ..
A. MEN ...NOT AMEN
When you speak, the words are you. You speak from what you believe, and from your being. Your word is you.
If the word isn't God, then who is the word?