Off Grid Air Conditioner Without Battery or Grid - Solar City Delta H6 Inverter Islanding
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- Опубликовано: 1 авг 2020
- Skip the battery and power an air conditioner with just solar panels and an inverter? It works!
Here's an example setup you could put on your home to provide battery-less backup during the next power outage:
beenebrothers.com/6kw-grid-ti...
This SolarCity Delta H6 inverter can provide split phase 110v or 240v output with no grid and no battery. Just solar panels! While there might be limited use cases I've been experimenting to see what the capabilities are of this very inexpensive sub 700 dollar inverter. It can invert up to 6KW of solar to AC with up to 97% efficiency which is hard to find with your typical Amazon Inverter anywhere close to this price range.
This is the inverter I've been playing with:
ebay.to/31aAeP3
As an Ebay affiliate I may profit from you making purchases after using the above link. 
Хобби
I think I have found true descendant of Abraham Lincoln
what the hell! ahahaha
😄
Four Score and Seven Years Ago. Abe Lincoln made a video about solar air conditioning. LOL
Great Video! RE Locked Rotor Currents:
(1) A regular window unit's AC has a starting current of about 5 times the running current. For example a 5200 BTUH small unit here draws 5.5 amps at 120 volts. The compressor is marked 25 LRA or locked rotor amps.What this means is for a fraction of a second the unit needs 25 amps to get the compressor to start. A factor of 5 is common with larger window units and also 2 to 5 ton AC central air units.
For solar it is far easier to start an ac that is like a inverter type mini split with, or a inverter type central air AC , or a inverter type window unit. That is because there is usually no locked rotor High amps. ie an inverter type AC starts the compressor at a low rpm and increases the rpm in stages. A 120 volt 9000 BTUH inverter type mini split here draws about 2 amps when first running its compressor, a couple of amps. The watt meter in line is like 180 to 220 watts.
There are a few inverter type window units, they are rather a new beast. Expensive and in the larger sizes.
Regards to all
It's one of the reasons the government would be best served by encouraging a switch to inverter based heat pumps even more so than solar incentives to ease the stress on the grid during peak hours in the summer.
Do you have a link or brand? Amazon?
You can run inverter air conditioning on 110vdc
If you don't want to use a battery when starting a resistive load you should use a super capacitor bank rated 3x your load. It would start your load at peak load easily.
For those of us that can just handle the positive and negative of hooking up solar panels, what is a super capacitor, where do I get one, and how do I wire it? Thank you.
This is really cool. I want to do something like this to run AC during the summer and charge my Volt. I dont want a battery bank (yet) or grid tie.
Thanks you very much for making this video, I really appreciate it.
Great video wow I thought you would be able to run a window ac with less panels. Your the man.
Thanks! If this was a battery based system it wouldn't take nearly so many panels. There's no surge capacity with panels so it's probably about 3 times the number of panel wattage to get things running.
@@BeeneEnergy Just get a single 48V small battery, it'll take the surge, plus everytime a cloud rolls by the AC would stay on. Only need 6 panels this way too. Growatt also has batteryless specifically off-grid inverters 3kW and 5kW at a reasonable price.
@@NoOne-jy6mc Yeah right after filing this the off grid inverters started coming out with batteryless options. And I do agree batteryless is more gimmick than anything :).
Outstanding! I love this.
Good stuff!
That is impressive !
I love your videos! 🙂
I literally don't understand a ton of this stuff. But cool video. I imagine that in this instance you wouldn't be able to do this on day with even slight cloud cover.
Also, it's cool to see you using that clamp meter. I wanna buy one this week for testing on my little ground lean up against the wall system. Haha
Ah the good ole wall mount. Mine is cinder blocks and 4x4’s, ha ha. Thanks for sticking around anyway! I get a bit excited with all the terminology, I’ll try to keep it toned down a bit so everyone can follow along.
Great job
B💙💛💚🙌👏👍lowin' Cold air!!! That is awesome! And how about that Bluegrass music at the end?!!
Nice video!
Have you tried adding microinverters to this setup?
The starting load is generally about double the running load ..you can look it up for any given ac unit. 3x instantaneous isn't too surprising.
I just subscribed to your channel I'm going to try to watch all your stuff cuz I'm really interested in starting this I got about 4 grand that I can put into it and I want to get something going
Have fun! It’s been a great hobby for me so far. If you need anything let me know, we typically have panels and batteries in stock if you don’t have a good source locally.
You have to configure it, I have one of the same connected to the network and in my country they charge me for the energy that it generated more
you did wonderfull
Thanks for your video! I have a delta h6 running 2 strings of 7 380 watt panels at 41.2 volts each. I wanted to put them in series but having issue everytime I do. I get an arc fault when I use PV1 and PV2. Ive tried each individual string of wire gauge 10 wire and I never get a fault. Even when I put both strings in parallel into PV1 I max out at 4500 watts, but no arc fault. I want to maximize and use the full 6000 watts. Do you think I need thicker wire? Ive checked all the connections. When both PV inputs are used at the same time it works for a little bit, then the inverter starts this whistle, then it goes into arc fault. Any help would be appreciated! Thanks
Mark
Awesomeness
ultra capacitors in parallel with the panels for the start surge
Use inverter air conditioner
Have you tried the ultra capacitors in parallel with panels?
@@DavidHalko I did actually and to my surprise it had the opposite effect …
it was confusing my mppt charger as it was constantly tracking the max power point … so the output with the capacitors was a bit less
hope it helps
@@danieltimisan6820 - oh man!
I have been thinking about a bank of super capacitors for compressor starts.
I was thinking about using a battery as temporary storage (starter batteries are perfect for high capacity transient current needs, terrible for medium term storage), and then wire a bank of super capacitors in parallel to the battery, to provide some extra “boost” so as to reduce stress on the battery (or maybe reduce the battery capacity needed, to get the system to be more “solid state” with less of a dependency on “consumables” like batteries.)
@@DavidHalko I think that is a good idea to put them in parallel with the battery to assist as a boost power. Just be aware that they do consume some small current ... so if you keep them connected for a long time to a battery that you barely use ... it will drain the battery in time , especially if it's a led acid battery
Great video Mr. President!!! but why lay them flat?
Thank you! Honestly I laid them flat because I didn’t have anything to lean them on! Could have gotten away with less if I had a prop.
Dude, once you are as old as me you won't worry about pulling that one rogue grey hair out
You are the only one doing things I’ve been wondering. Can you charge a Tesla directly from solar? No other batteries in the mix.
I need to get back to having more fun like this! Straight solar charging like that would be iffy, cloud rolling over would probably cause the inverter to reboot.
I would love to see more videos on this stuff. I don't fully understand how you've arrived at powering stuff directly off panels with inverters.
This inverter is neat that way. I needed about 3kw of power to run a 1kw load though.
I will be installing this inverter in my house so if I ever have an extended power outage I can run my refrigerator off this inverter for some emergency power while the sun shines.
@@BeeneEnergy why did you need so much. Or did you need it to handled the initial spike.
I guess that's what I'm after. If I'm using a 300 watt panel and a device actually uses less than that including spikes then am I ok.
I just wanna use power not store it....
Right I needed all the extra for the spike of an ac compressor starting.
Certain things you can run straight off solar. Easier if they are dc devices, like a water heater element, or a dc brushless fan.
@@BeeneEnergy People are REALLY interested in solar without batteries. You should make more videos about it.
Play the power outta angle too. It how many panels for it take to run....
Then tag your area and let people know you sell them as well.
Create packages. Lol. I personally would love that angle
@@AskIveSolar Amen, more power to appliances without use of a battery 🔋
Hey bro! Liking the content. If I built a 300+ volt battery It would then have battery back up? Maybe a whole model 3 battery?
Maybe, it might have to be 480 volts to work properly, I really don’t know.
There are some CAN bus signals you will have to learn how to control. I plan on doing something like this in the future
Would be nice if you made a quick video discussing setup of Inverter to go Off Grid or on Grid from out of the box. I know lots are interested in this inverter but head stories of complicated setup and no support available. Price looks amazing if it really works like this.
Yes I need to do some more research on this inverter to flush out more use cases. This setup was literally a single series string of panels on the pv side of the inverter and a single outlet on the island output of the inverter. No configuration needed it just powers on and works. Of course when the sun goes down the power is gone.
Password is 6532. Can you make a short video going through the settings?
@@BeeneEnergy this is very useful info that I was looking for. Liked and subscribed.Also the newer window ac units have very low inrush current compared to the ones from just 5 years ago. I have seen some window ac units with inverter compressors in them.
Is there a cheaper option to do this like a microinverter that dose same this no batteries or grid tie connected just straight solar power to AC?
You can install an easy start on the ac and it will ramp up and not surge as much
You're right. It's one of the things on my list to try out. Last I checked they were $400 but the advantage of not having to run an oversized Inverter could be worth it!
@@BeeneEnergy just bought one 289.00 on eBay brand new. Bit keep in mind that it will reduce the proformance of the ac to about 95% not much loss bit there is a little
I run my air conditioner thermostat like an on off switch. I start it when I get home from work and run it down to about 70 degrees and then shut it off overnight. It could take up to five hours to cool the house down.
No reason you can't run the solar powered system like that. Just set the thermostat for 65 degrees and expect the house to warm to 72 by morning. Big deal.. but the system would have to be a little oversized and I wonder how the inverter would react as the sun goes down.
FYI, signature solar just released a video on their youtube on how to eliminate the ARC FAULT...
Good
You could wire up a soft start to it and run it with less panels. I'd say 1500W should do it.
So true. I wasn’t aware of the soft starts then but it would definitely reduce the startup surge.
Thanks for the info. I have this inverter I'm going to use this on grid with 4 -255 panels is this enough power )2040 w. Thanks Leon
The wattage is fine. But you will be at about 120vdc under load. I think it will be ok but you’ll lose out on some potential as the inverter will stop making power at a voltage much lower than that.
So with 2500 watt solar panels the output you get is far less?
I want to make a boat motor entirely on solar without batteries, so even with dusk levels of sun it'll run albeit slower. And it'll always be running everyday always constant at max power potential. Any advice for me? I was hoping to get this boat going as fast as possible (unmanned)
Interesting i have 10x 455w panels and huawei ktl6 L1 all in off grid mode and cant start an AC! it just turns off.. dont get what the issue is... theres around 11A max of the panels so realistic it could be around 8ish...
I was considering buying one of these also. How do you prevent it feeding back to the grid when using it in grid tie setup. For example, your house is only using 3kw and you're generating 6kw. Some places require a 2nd PV meter in order to get solar credits, and the newer smart meters would not "run backwards"
I’ve been through all the settings and didn’t see anything for zero export.
@@BeeneEnergy Should you shut off the main breaker when you are running it off-grid?
Great video! Do you know of any smaller 250 to 300 watt inverters that can run without batteries and off grid? Thanks!
I don’t know of any that are small, just the bigger grid tie inverters that have the secure power option.
The all in ones from mpp solar and growatt are doing this now but those typically start at 3,000w.
@@BeeneEnergy okay, thanks for the quick reply.
Love the way you said thats interesting .. your childish come out
Thanks for sharing this video! so based upon your experience. It seems like it would be okay to run 1.5 ton AC( 18000BTW) on 3650W solar panels right? I am looking forward to install off grid without batteries. Any suggestions will be appreciated thanks! so based upon your calculations 1500W AC would need 1500x3=4500W so 4.5KW solar panels. right? another question would be, did it ever trip when solar panel voltage fluctuate ? (say there was a shadow on panel due to cloud)
Yeah about 3x.
Keep in mind that calculation is just taking into account running during the day.
Having enough power saved in batteries to run all day is a different calculation.
@@BeeneEnergy thanks, Yes, I understand. I am planning to install 3760 W panels and thinking that it will be okay to run 1.5 ton(18000BTU)(about 1.6kw) AC. just wondering if it will trip when panels get shade due to cloud? did you face that problem at all?
@@javalearner4227 Will you have a battery or are you going to run just during the daytime?
I’ll admit it was fun to play with no battery but realistically it had its problems, like tripping as you mentioned. A could could drop you to 500w which wouldn’t be enough to keep the ac running.
@@BeeneEnergy thanks, it answers my question.
What happens when there’s clouds or the sun is going down and you have a load (fridge or whatever) drawing power and while running needs more power than what the inverter/solar can supply? I ordered one of these inverters, should be here tomorrow
Should have read comments before commenting. I found the answer
this is also the way to store hot watter without a battery
Hello, I currently have this inverter set up grid tie works flawlessly. Can I run the idle power at the same?
What do you mean by idle power?
The island mode as you referenced in the video. My question is can this be used with transfer switch and subpanel. For emergency like you would a generator?
I have 7.4kw of panels and I have it maxed at the 6k so I figured as long as the appliances dont all start at the same time I should be able too.
Oh island mode!
Yeah if you run the output from the delta h6 to a critical loads panel it should provide power to that panels from solar if the grid ever goes down.
@@frostbyte6009 how long have you been running this inverter ? I have heard they are sensitive to being over powered so I was thinking about either sizing just under the limit of possibly buying two.
I have 2 of these inverters with 12kw of panels. Trying to figure out a battery solution for them
They accept the Tesla powerwall 2, hard to substitute to get 480 VDC that it requires. I'm trying an experiment with another MPPT controller to charge the AGM batteries I have and a Transfer switch to use them.
Even a couple of deep cycle batteries can handle the instantaneous start up current... so not having batteries and grid tie.. seems kinda silly.
Would it run a 3/4 hp shallow well jet pump? I'm considering buying one of these, I have a 3640 watt array & want power when the sun is shining but my electric co-op isn't...
Depends on the surge capacity needed for the pump. 3/4hp should be about 500watts so I’d think the surge would be around 1500w if it’s similar to an air conditioner. Might just work!
@@BeeneEnergy Thanks! That's what I was thinking.
Awesome! I have a 240v 12k BTU mini-split, would one of these units work, or would I need to have two run in parallel?
A mini split would be easier to power. The only concern would be if there are voltage fluctuations with this batteryless setup that the inverter drive didn’t appreciate.
@@BeeneEnergy Thank you! So would a single unit be fine for the 240v mini-split?
@@ssoffshore5111 A 12kbtu mini split should use less than 1000w under full load. So a 6kw inverter is more than enough. It just won’t run after dark of course.
@@BeeneEnergy Gotcha, I just wanted to make sure a single unit could provide 240v power without being tied to the grid/battery
@@ssoffshore5111 oh yes, it will definitely put out 240v.
How much power does the backup islanding output? Is it limited or full rate of inverter?
It’s supposed to be 4.5kw for the islanding output. Which makes sense as the terminals for islanding are smaller than the grid side.
Is it possible to run a small Ac (500w) off just (2500w) solor panels during the day, would be hooked up to a small 50ah battery with 2000w inverter ? (not trying to run it on the battery at
all)
What I would do is use something like this. It will run batteryless, whether it will start an air conditioner batteryless is something I don’t know for sure. Worst case you add a small 48v battery to provide that startup oomph.
Gives you flexibility to expand later. 4kw of solar and 5kw inverter.
beenebrothers.com/product/5000w-powmr-inverter-charger-48v/
2500w should be plenty to run the ac during the day. With a small battery 1500w is probably plenty.
Hi, can you recommend any affordable inverters that can work batteryless with only solar and grid? Thanks
I don't see the solar city inverters anywhere for sale
Check this video out, this specific growatt handles batterless+grid really well. ruclips.net/user/shortswRO2iiJ5C4k
Hello there. What size system (without battery) would you recommend for a small AC 5000BTU that has the following specs (Rate Volt 115V & Cooling Current Input 4.0A)? I only want it to run in the afternoons when the panels would get full sun. So it is a hot day it would run and if it is not such a hot day I would not care if it is not running. What minimum kW solar power and invertor would I need? And would I need to set up a 12 volt (in parallel) or 24 volt (in series) system? Thank you so much!
You will likely need 2000w worth of solar. A 3kw growatt es might start and run it fine. Some batteryless inverters handle surge load better than others.
Also, consider midea inverter drive air conditioner for lower startup current!
@@BeeneEnergy Thank you for that advice. What's 3kw growatt though? And could you send me an example/link for the batteryless inverter and midea inverter drive air conditioner you've mentioned? I tried Googling but no luck figuring those out. :-( Thank you again!
@@ivanpolenski2255 Oh sure thing. This is the ac I was thinking about: amzn.to/3VDocbA And this inverter: watts247.com/product/spf-3000tl-lvm-es/
@@BeeneEnergy Is there a chance of damaging either of these products if the compressor was turning on and off a lot because of clouds? Could you just leave the AC on all the time and the compressor will automatically run whenever it has enough power (sun), with no problems?
Run @ night!
Question, batteries: for GTI meter out 200w to run house at night. 200w is not have grid suck KWH out of battery, to KWH house all night with GTI battery, no GTI draw from battery! Current limit?
What is a GTI battery? Your questions are hard to follow.
hey i didnt know if you could help me. I recently did a remodel on my house and had this inverter disconnected and i hooked it back up aka flicked the breaker back on lol i have green lights and no faults but it says 2w from solar.
Are there rapid shutdown modules behind each panel like Tigo’s? What voltage does the inverter say each string is at?
@@BeeneEnergy just + - pv coming out the back of the panels. But inverter shows 500 volts for each string
@@frostbyte6009 The lights didn't go green until after you turned the breaker on, is that right? It seems odd. They are pretty simple devices. Feed solar and they dump 240vac to the grid. I'd double check you're getting 240v at the grid terminals of the inverter. What all was done in the remodel, any electrical touched or panels touched? Was the system off just as a precation?
hey saw your videos man and i dont really understand the solar but could a 100watt solar panel power a fan
Just depends on how big the fan is. But yes it can power a dc fan without an inverter.
@@BeeneEnergy can it power a regular standing fan straight from the solar panel
@@alexa.8213 it won’t directly power a fan that typically plugs into a wall outlet.
@@BeeneEnergy what supplies would you get to / how would you do it from a 100 watt solar panel
@@alexa.8213 - the fan would have to be DC rated. Some AC motors on fans will say on their label both AC & DC at 120v… and you could run a fan like that directly, via panels with no inverter
I have a 7.2kw solar system and I been trying to do the same thing. Every solar supplier acts like I don't know what I'm talking about and keep trying to sell me a 10k battery back up system when I tell them I just want an inverter to run it from sunrise to sunset. Do you know of any inverter that will run a 7.2kw system?
It's pretty rare for a grid tie inverter to provide full power in a backup scenario. The Sunny Boy inverters have a small batteryless backup output of about 2,000w. You could always pick up one of these solar city inverters I suppose.
Sir. Your inverter doesn't have grid power and Battery right? But still running only Pv connected?
Yep this was before so many options existed for batteryless operation. Granted this is still one of the least expensive with 6kw split phase output for $650 I paid.
The power losses you are most likely experiencing through that long extension cord is probably not much help with the surge issue.
Yep I'm sure it didn't help any!
Just curious....can I run 5x 100w incadecent bulbs directly off a 500w inverter with 500w solar panel on it?
The biggest problem is that 500w of solar rarely makes 500w of power. And there are losses in conversion from dc to ac.
So theoretically, if I removed 1 bulb or added 1 panel to compensate for the loss it could work? Or better yet, I use 12v halogen bulbs?
Wish panels were more efficient. 🙄
Has anyone had long term success with one of these ? I'm looking at picking up one or two. I wish they had a limiting feature but it's not a make or break. Would be a nice bonus, also considering a Growatt 6000 TL-X
I’ve installed two at my house. They’ve been cranking out power since June of this year with no problems.
@@BeeneEnergy do you know of anyone that have been able to zero export / limit them ?
@@stevenmyers2252 I don’t, not sure if that’s a thing you can add on to an inverter.
@@BeeneEnergy glad to hear you have had had good reliability.
I'm debating on how big to go on our array. 4-6kw will be easy but if I'm going to go legit on a grid tie part of me wants to make as much energy as possible.
If I could find something good with a limiter I wouldn't have to jump through as many hoops.
@@stevenmyers2252 Why do you need a limited, does your utility not allow back feeding?
1:45 You just don’t see that every day!
Right never seen an RV as a toad
@@ronnythompson9115 they only made a handfull of them. corvair i believe
Where do you ship from...we are in calif..
We ship from Mansfield, tx.
you have it off the grid and without battery
In true usa style: choose to live somewhere hot, then use aircon.
Why not move to a cooler state?
If only weather was the only deciding factor. Such a simple life that would be.
That inverter would be more attractive if it was $200 or if it had a 48V input. When its hot and sunny that OffGridTie could run a secondary always on AC until the sun goes down. Nice new BALDR watt meter with a battery backup. Got excited for a second Amazon description is conflicting thought it was 3680 Watts but seams to be 1875 Max . www.amazon.com/BALDR-Electricity-Monitor-Power-Energy/dp/B01JLT8NSG/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?dchild=1&keywords=watt+meter&qid=1596517529&sr=8-1-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUFZSERQWUVKV0dMVEsmZW5jcnlwdGVkSWQ9QTA2NzUyODFTR1BRVlc5RVBPMkMmZW5jcnlwdGVkQWRJZD1BMDQ1Nzg4NTFQMkxHS0NXWlJHT0kmd2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9hdGYmYWN0aW9uPWNsaWNrUmVkaXJlY3QmZG9Ob3RMb2dDbGljaz10cnVl
Yep, I may still blow this meter to bits as well but it’s working good so far! I agree a 48v input would be so much better. I have hopes of connecting a battery but don’t know if the work will be worth the reward.
Do you have an email address? I looked at your web site but there is no contact info there either.
get a smaller ac 5000 btu
😂 bro 3kwh dain next time use 1kwh of solar plus 700watt to 1000watt inverter plus a activestart 20amp. Ac to activestart to inverter to solar. ActiveStart look into it
Let me know how it goes! This ac would never start up on a 700 watt inverter.
I’m trying to find this inverter can someone help the links aren’t working.
Other than on eBay I don’t think it’s available any more.
Honestly they had a really high failure rate too, and lots of all in ones have batteryless operation now.