The wing should pivot on its center line and be up high enough so that even at maximum suspension compression and maximum down angle it can't hit the ground. The wing reaction will be faster and easier to control than having it way out on the end of a long arm. A small servo angle change will make a small wing angle change VS a small servo angle change making a big wing angle change while a big servo angle change folds the wing under or flips it to takeoff angle. Other benefits are the downforce won't be able to make the mounting slip and force on the servo will be a lot less. In other words take your high mounted fixed angle wing and pivot the wing on it.
Would be interesting to log the gyro readings and commanded servo positions to look at after each run. Might be some interesting data in there about under/overshooting its target, oscillatory behavior, etc. Good stuff!
Yeah there could definitely be some improvements made. It's acting like an overlapped system right now so it's a bit sluggish. Now to find something else to put it in!
Mechanical engineer here: Take a good look at an F1 car's front wing, It is as wide as the car, yours is in between the front wheels. You car moves slower than an F1 car so the aerodynamics aren't as effective, you need a bigger surface, frontal and side profile so you can have more DF for your scale. The wing needs to be fixed and rigid, the adjustment of the attack angle should only be accomplished with "wing-flex" do to aerodynamic forces pushing down on it. If you'd like i can share my findings and fusion designs.
I'm a mechanical engineer as well. This has been analyzed in a wing design software for the specific downforce I want. I may have covered it in the first video instead of this one. The wing size isn't a problem as I understand the level of downforce I'm getting. Wing flex is not good in this application. This is low speed aero design...wing flex is only beneficial when you're skirting the rules to shed drag at high speeds or not using active aero.
Those tires look like drag slicks on a top fuel dragster. Those grow by like 50% of their size by the end of the 1000' run or something like that. It's basically like giving them an active diff that's constantly changing the final gear ratio as the cars speed increases.
Given the off-road necessity of an RC truck, you should maybe try using LiDAR, to detect elevation changes so that the wing doesn’t force itself into the ground when the chassis starts going up an incline.
Competition car aerodynamics is probably my favorite book on the matter. I think it does a good job at keeping it at a pretty understandable level while still being technical.
Ever tried to attach the aero directly to the lower control arms/wheel hubs so they put all the downforce directly onto the wheels without affecting load on the suspension Not sure how it would work but might be worth a try
I've thought about it but haven't worked out a mechanism that'll allow the suspension to properly flex while keeping the wing level. I'll have to do more research.
well I'm late to the party but after mulling over active aerodynamics in my head for a while let's just say you can see why most airplanes control pitch from the tail, not the nose
What about an active aero that measure where the ground is? (combined with gyro). As a simple example going and down hills, the wings will stay level with the ground, not the horizon
I think if I had a ton of room it may be a little more fun but it's a massive pain for now. Even at the professional level, my son and I go to several races and there's a reason F1 and Indycar attendance blows most NHRA events out of the water. Turns are just more exciting. I mean I love seeing top fuel dragster launch for a bit, but it'll never top true road racing.
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The wing should pivot on its center line and be up high enough so that even at maximum suspension compression and maximum down angle it can't hit the ground. The wing reaction will be faster and easier to control than having it way out on the end of a long arm. A small servo angle change will make a small wing angle change VS a small servo angle change making a big wing angle change while a big servo angle change folds the wing under or flips it to takeoff angle. Other benefits are the downforce won't be able to make the mounting slip and force on the servo will be a lot less. In other words take your high mounted fixed angle wing and pivot the wing on it.
Exactly what I thought while looking at this design.
Would be interesting to log the gyro readings and commanded servo positions to look at after each run. Might be some interesting data in there about under/overshooting its target, oscillatory behavior, etc. Good stuff!
Yeah there could definitely be some improvements made. It's acting like an overlapped system right now so it's a bit sluggish.
Now to find something else to put it in!
Looking forward to that next video
Mechanical engineer here:
Take a good look at an F1 car's front wing, It is as wide as the car, yours is in between the front wheels.
You car moves slower than an F1 car so the aerodynamics aren't as effective, you need a bigger surface, frontal and side profile so you can have more DF for your scale.
The wing needs to be fixed and rigid, the adjustment of the attack angle should only be accomplished with "wing-flex" do to aerodynamic forces pushing down on it.
If you'd like i can share my findings and fusion designs.
I'm a mechanical engineer as well. This has been analyzed in a wing design software for the specific downforce I want. I may have covered it in the first video instead of this one. The wing size isn't a problem as I understand the level of downforce I'm getting.
Wing flex is not good in this application. This is low speed aero design...wing flex is only beneficial when you're skirting the rules to shed drag at high speeds or not using active aero.
flip up areo's on body pannels may also work to increase downforce while having the parts be protected by the chasis/wheels.
Those tires look like drag slicks on a top fuel dragster. Those grow by like 50% of their size by the end of the 1000' run or something like that. It's basically like giving them an active diff that's constantly changing the final gear ratio as the cars speed increases.
wow thats next level aero control 👍🏽( best i tried was like dorsal fins on servos in the mid rear , trying to control drift , idk lol )
Question : with front and rear active aero could you technically bunny hop ??
Haha...thats an awesome thought and probably
Given the off-road necessity of an RC truck, you should maybe try using LiDAR, to detect elevation changes so that the wing doesn’t force itself into the ground when the chassis starts going up an incline.
Brilliant idea!
How the hell do you have so little subs with a banging channel?
Thanks for the kind words! We will get there...hopefully sooner rather than later!
5000 subs? for this GREAT content? somethings wrong......
We will get there some day!
Active aero and active suspension would be the ultimate combo
How about active aero steering stability?
This is something I've always wanted to try but need to do a lot more math for it.
🏁hello everyone...? Couldn't you put the active wing in the back im just curious.
Yep...could make a DRS system if you wanted
Did you ever try this with the pivot point in the wing, instead of aft? I would imagine that would help with keeping ground clearance constant.
Definitely a good idea. I want to make a drs mechanism like this.
Could you recommend a book to help explain aerodynamics in in regular, plain everyday layman's english?
Competition car aerodynamics is probably my favorite book on the matter. I think it does a good job at keeping it at a pretty understandable level while still being technical.
Ever tried to attach the aero directly to the lower control arms/wheel hubs so they put all the downforce directly onto the wheels without affecting load on the suspension
Not sure how it would work but might be worth a try
I've thought about it but haven't worked out a mechanism that'll allow the suspension to properly flex while keeping the wing level.
I'll have to do more research.
well I'm late to the party but after mulling over active aerodynamics in my head for a while let's just say you can see why most airplanes control pitch from the tail, not the nose
What about an active aero that measure where the ground is? (combined with gyro). As a simple example going and down hills, the wings will stay level with the ground, not the horizon
I also considered adding a load cell at the front and rear so I can maintain a set level of downforce. Then I could shed drag like DRS in F1.
@@EngineeringAfterHours That's a fascinating idea. Hit a button and lower the target load for a straight, then hit another and raise it for a corner.
what hoons you use white or silver. silver is more for AWD drifting go with gold.
Silver. I do have a set of golds for the rear now however
DUDE!!! I think you have something here. Keep trying.
Need some 4wd on the your RC builds
Agreed. I've been casually working on an RC sherp design, but thats a ways off. I would love an arrma infraction or felony.
@@EngineeringAfterHours you will blow up 100%
How do you do your GPS overlays?
GoPro app
Why is throttle sensitivity set to 0………….
I'm pretty sure that's just the default linear throttle setting. What are you thinking that setting does?
Yea, someone else thinks speed runs are boring
I think if I had a ton of room it may be a little more fun but it's a massive pain for now.
Even at the professional level, my son and I go to several races and there's a reason F1 and Indycar attendance blows most NHRA events out of the water. Turns are just more exciting. I mean I love seeing top fuel dragster launch for a bit, but it'll never top true road racing.
What chassis it is ?
Traxxas rustler/bandit 2wd chassis. Very good chassis
Where can I get these tires?
I got them on amazon
Got a link?
@@sjoervanderploeg4340 www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B07STDD653/ref=ya_aw_od_pi?ie=UTF8&psc=1&th=1
@@sjoervanderploeg4340 t zijn arrma infraction wielen
Had ze ondertussen al gevonden :)
Cars don't fly