Fun fact: The SMS version was also programmed by Arc, which was the first game they ever worked. Arc would be renamed as Arc System Works in the future and now, they owns DD and other Technos IPs.
I find amazing how every good fighting game nowadays that isn't handled by a big name of the genre (like Capcom or Snk) is published by Arc System those days... and they have some amazing games.
THE constant slowdown was actually fixed in the US arcade version. when taito released the arcade version in the west, they added an aditional CPU to handel colision detection.
@@James-fo8rf no. it was an official release. the fact it is mistaken to be a bootleg is mainly due to lack of communication on the parts of both Taito and tecnos and I highly doubt square enix or Ark system works know anything about this.
@@RetroCore probably. Most people assume there are little differences between the JP and US versions. little info exists on this revision which is why is mistaken for a bootleg.
Absolutely wonderful remaster, Mark. Even with it's faults, I love Double Dragon; it's one of my favorite games of all time. From the mid-80s through the early 00s, a small local/semi-regional arcade and other amusement machine distributor (called L&L, I think) was located near my grandparents' house. They re-sold machines but mainly operated on a sort-of rental system where arcades/bars/bowling alleys/stores/etc would choose machines, the distributor would maintain the machines, and then both share the game income 50/50. So, places that were very close by (a bowling alley, restaurants, etc) were able to rotate out to new games pretty quickly. There was a pretty terrible department store-that closed in the early 90s-just a few minutes from the distributor and within 10 minutes walk of my grandparents' place, and though it was a pretty junk store, in the entrance area they always had 2 or 3 machines, with most being pretty new. So, when I visited, usually with a cousin of similar age, on weekends-which was pretty often, since they lived a little less than 30 miles away-my young uncle (RIP...just 3 years older than myself), my cousin, and I would always go and drop a few dollars into whatever machines they had at the time. When Double Dragon showed up-before any of us had ever heard about the game-we were hooked immediately. I know it and Road Blasters (stand-up cabinet) showed up there in a similar time-frame, and I'm pretty sure that Out Run was still the third game they had then but was swapped for Final Lap at some point there. The music in Double Dragon was amazing, especially the title theme and Riot/Industrial-area, and the co-op gameplay was so fun. We played a ton on that arcade cab, and it's the first arcade game I remember getting to the end of-though my uncle was relentless and smoked me in the end...on more than one occasion. I loved the music in Double Dragon so much that around 2000-01 or so I even bought the Original Sound of Double Dragon cassette through a proxy on yahoo auctions Japan. We also had a lot of fun when the NES version came out: my uncle would come over (my uncle didn't have any consoles at the time), and we'd play it along with my dad and sometimes my other uncle who was probably in his early 20s at the time. We rented it a few times, but dad just ended up going out and buying it for me, which is probably one of the only games in that time-frame that was bought outside of birthdays/christmas. That uncle ended up getting a Game Boy on launch and did end up with the Game Boy port of Double Dragon whenever that came out. However, I wonder why he never picked up the PC version, since he did have a 286 at the time and had plenty of other ports like Ninja Gaiden and Bad Dudes. Personally, I actually prefer the Game Boy version over all of the other versions except Double Dragon Advance and the arcade original. The Game Boy music is amazing, not quite as good as either the arcade or Genesis soundtracks in my opinion but still great, and the pacing of that port makes it something you can just sit down and relax and play. I ended up with the Game Boy Double Dragon as well a little later when I got a Game Boy after Metroid II came out. That uncle also gave me his own Game Boy and his games a couple of months before he passed away a two years ago, so playing Double Dragon these days is a bit bitter-sweet. Interestingly, he loved playing games and kept playing on PC through the years, but besides the original Game Boy that he had said he occasionally still played, the only other game system he ever bought was the fat DS to play Mario 64 DS, since he had played through when I let him borrow my N64 for a while in the late 90s. Besides the NES and GB versions, I also own the ports for Genesis, Master System, Atari 2600, 7800, 360, and Double Dragon Advance. The Genesis version I got close to release, 360 and DD Advance I got day one, but the others were later acquisitions. I have a love-hate relationship with the Genesis release. I played it a ton back them and was impressed with the speed and music, but it's just too fast for me anymore...I just don't have the reaction time to keep up. BTW, there was an interview/article online a couple of years ago with the guy, Pete Andrews, at Software Creations that did the Genesis port that's pretty interesting. I believe the game was designed around the PAL Mega Drive first, which may explain the cracked-out speed. The Atari 2600 version is an interesting curiosity, but, man, do I get smoked any time I've ever played it. I've tried with the standard VCS joystick, my Wico bat joystick, and with a Genesis 3-button pad, but I can't make it anywhere in that game. And, though I own both a loose and a sealed copy of the 7800 game, I don't actually have a 7800. I've played it through emulation, and though I can definitely do better than on the 2600 game, I do agree in that it's a disappointing port. I know a while back there were some efforts to do some redesign work on the graphics as well as add Pokey-chip music, but I haven't kept up on if that ever went anywhere. The Master System port is fine enough, though the collision detection can be annoying. Though I got it later than even the Genesis version, I think I would have been fine with that copy when younger. Double Dragon Advance is just amazing. There's nothing else to say about the GBA game: it's just great.
Thanks for revisiting this one Mark! A DD comparison video always provides a lot of "schadenfreude". I mainly played it on the GBA, which is a lot of fun, even though it's more of a remix / re-imagining.
Atari under the Tramiel family were never embarrassed about anything they put out on console, they were only interested in getting product out as cheaply as possible. So many 7800,Lynx and Jaguar games suffered by being on smallest possible cartridges..
Lovely to see this classic get the remastering treatment, and it made for an enjoyable episode, especially with the many ports. I got really into Double Dragon after seeing it in the arcades and I've loved beat-em-up games ever since. They're my favorite. DD arcade does have technical issues and plays oddly compared to what came later(1989 would be quite a year of evolution for the genre), but I went back to it roughly a year ago and still had fun, but I get why others may not like it. I agree about the HD makeover of the 360. The graphics look too clean. It makes everything look disconnected. I had the same problem with other HD games, even ones with more effort on the art. There seems to be a blind spot when it comes to designing graphics that are cohesive and not detached. Otherwise, it looks like a reasonable version since they left the game play alone. I had a school friend who got a Game Boy before anyone else I knew, and he picked up Double Dragon when that came out, so I got to play it when it was new and I remember it being a lot of fun. I played again early this year and still enjoyed it. The Mega Drive version is such a shame because it looks really good, but it's such a mess. It would have been so cool to have a great arcade port of the game on MD at that point. The GBA version is fantastic. I only got around to playing it earlier this year. And finally, I remember standing at the counter of a large toy store when my mom bought the Master System version for me when I was still quite young. I didn't even know it existed and I was so excited because I loved the arcade version. I wasn't disappointed, and it was one of my favorite games for the system.
I had that Mastertronic C64 port. One of the first things I noticed with it was the transparent line through the characters who I guess were made up of two sprites joined together.
@@RetroCore The developers actually apologized for that in the instruction book, if memory serves. As opposed to all the things they actually owed an apology for.
Awesome as always thanks Mark. So many memories with this ace game and will always be associated with my school friends. Clearing this and winning the final battle against best friend is burnt into memory. So many bad versions to choose from as a favourite but I'll go with that awesome gba port. Even though I've never owned one it's a shame the X68000 never got version.
Even if by today standars it really shows his rough edges, I'll admit that this game has a charm to it. btw the GBA game is great. It modernizes and improves everything from the original (except for the music).
The existence of the 2600 port has haunted me since childhood. I know the company was trying to squeeze as much as they could have on their dated hardware, but that's just insane.
I'd question if that was even possible. I'm sure there's some home computer ports that had a similar configuration, but the Atari controller is just a joystick and one action button. Perfect for a shooter or an arcade platformer where you perform one action, but downright useless in a Beat'em up. At best, you could probably just throw a punch or a kick, but you wouldn't be able to make a specific action. At worst, the attack button would do whatever the hell it wanted to. It's not so much a good or bad port, so much as an ill-advised port. But hey, whatever keeps 70's technology afloat when the 16 bit era was already starting.
@@mightyfilm It was an Atari 2600. The only flaw of that Double Dragon game, as an Atari 2600 game, it's the fact the AI is completely relentless. I saw a video of a guy actually finishing the game (I could never get past level 1, and the game has 5 levels) and he had to use like 1000 save states to beat the frigging game because the AI is just impossible. The game is an *amazing* achievement for an Atari 2600. And if I had just an Atari 2600 in 1989 and this just had a decent AI, I would have loved it, even if it doesn't look or remembers Double Dragon at all :D
I have tremendous respect they even made such a game with limitations on the hardware. Everything I've seen pushed the hell out of the boundaries of what they could do. I'll just never stop thinking how weird it was. I first saw the game when I was young. Before I got an NES I had a hand me down 2600. I remember seeing a slew of marked down 2600 games at KB Toys, forget which one I bought, but I saw Double Dragon and I was amazed that it existed even as a kid. My friend had the NES version and we'd play it from time to time.
@@mightyfilm Kung Fu Master pushed the limits of what they could do. Double Dragon ignored those limits, and decided a drunk car alarm singing bits of the soundtrack was a higher priority than the stun lock.
I used to play the NES version as a kid which felt incredibly difficult because of the timer. As an adult, it's way easier to cheese with the “elbow” hit!
DD song kicks in. Nostalgia over 9000. By the way, Jimmy and Billy should've put a cowbell or an alarm on Marian. That would've saved them some headaches, since Marian managed to get kidnapped more than Princess Peach.
So, about the Zeebo port, I saw a post some time ago about people talked about the Zeebo version in a forum I make part of, and the people who played it said the gameplay was really good, some even said they liked it more than the GBA version, so yeah, it's a real shame it is locked up to the Zeebo;
I agree it's better than the GBA version and propbably the best version of Double Dragon. Which it's insane since the Zeebo got mostly really awful games.
Double Dragon had such an impact at the time, and partly I think because it was a video game version of those B grade 80's action movies with fights in a decaying urban environment. It sure captured our imagination. You'd even find cabinets with this game well into the 90's (and since it was really everywhere I assume it was bootlegged a lot). I'm glad the horrific C64 versions totaly flew under my radar at the time. Shame about the Spectrum and CPC as Renegade (Kunio-kun) was converted pretty well to these computers, so a decent game of Double Dragon was certainly possible. I have the Master System game and it's not a bad button masher to boot every now and then.
I have always found funny that the aspects where the Mega Drive version of Double Dragon success and fails, are exactly the reversed aspects where the Mega Drive version of Double Dragon II success and fails. It's like if you could somehow mishmash the strenghts of both conversions and disregard their respective weaknesses, you would have perfect versions of both Double Dragon and Double Dragon II on the console.
It's a shame so many of the early home computer ports were quick cash grabs with very little quality control or any pride in the games they released. It seems like a little bit of extra effort could've made a huge difference.
Its serviceable on NES and Master System, they dropped the ball on the micros (as usual) for the most part. The Genesis is a missed opportunity. DOS isn't all too hot. Game Boy is great given the hardware. 2600 knows how to work within the limitations. 7800 is a farce. GBA is great.
You said it, they dropped the ball and it landed on their family jewels. I only played the Amiga version and it was laughingly bad. I think Mark was actually very generous with it as I was never able to enjoy anything about it gameplay wise.
The 2600 could have been a lot better. There's a graphics hack, already. Now all it needs is for someone to rip out the music and use the spare memory for stun locks and varying enemy difficulty.
I'd say the cheap AI in the Mega Drive port is more due to the ultra fast speed the game runs in. There's a RUclips video showing DD1 arcade without slowdown and it seems the enemy movements and speed are pretty close to what you'd see in the MD port, though enemies do alternative between targeting the two players. Also, the headbutt and elbow smash are in the Atari Lynx version
Yeah, looking at that video again, they do seem to follow the good ol method of "If Player y = Enemy y Then Enemy x Moveto Player x - 16 Else Enemy y Moveto Player y" and "If Enemy1 y = Player y And Enemy1 x = Player x - 16 Then Enemy2 Moveto Player x + 16" Yeah, something like that, lol. I'm not a coder, so don't judge me.
@Solar Flare There's a hack of the Megadrive port that slows the enemy walking speed (not sure if it changes the AI), and it's a dramatic difference in how well the game plays. It may be better than the original arcade.
Great videos! Got a new subscriber here, keep it up. EDIT: it's a good idea put the year of release besides (or below) every console logo? That way we can get track of the "evolution" of ports.
Tha ks for subscribing. Hope you enjoy the channel's content. About the dates, sometimes it's tricky to get the correct date. In recent videos the games are shown in chronological order though. I get the data from Japanese wiki pages. Something English Wiki pages don't don.
My top tiers: God Tier: Double Dragon Advance, THE port, merging things from the first two games, adding new stages and foes and making the controllers smotth, my only gripe is the difficulty leap in the truck stage where those suited bastards will cheese you with that near inpenertable combo even on easy if you don't spam running kicks or the uppercut, but after that the game gets back to honest challenge, and the best part the Game link allows to share the experience with a friend, like Billy and Jimmy would liked in the NES Great Tier: Arcade Original: Slowdown aside (I'm used to that from shooters) the game looks great, plays fine and while slower than the beat em ups it inspired you can't deny why it was so ported, hard but worth it if you find an arcade Fine Tier: Genesis: Haven't played but for the footage i can tell it's pretty much an average recreation with the unfair AI aforementioned SMS: Played only once, plays like an original SMS game instead of a port, good but not without issues NES: At the risk of sounding controversial i don't find this one that good, i mean is good as a port but... it just don't feel good to me, added plataforming with disjointed jumping hitboxes that WILL make you fall, the checkpoint system makes Stage 4 cheap and slight imput lag while cornered, the music, extra parts and leveling system makes it good thought, especially that remix of stage 1, but otherwise i stick to DD2 Bad Tier: Zeebo: Looks fine, but i am not buying the Ouya's ancestor for just a game that if i am (un)lucky to find may suffer from the console's issues Crap Tier: The rest: ¿SERIOUSLY, A BEAT EM UP IN ATARI 2600?
So many versions, so many controversies, lol. I played the NES version first and loved it. Played the arcade version next and loved it even more. Years later the GBA 'reimagining' of it came out and was also really good. Every other port has flaws ranging from medium to severe. Most of the console and handheld versions range from decent to at least tolerable, but many of the 8 and 16-bit computer versions are just bad. The Amiga port may go down in history as my personal single most disappointing game on the entire platform. It's funny that you get a badly playing version on the Atari 7800 that still has a positive of having zero flicker no matter how much is on screen thanks to specialized hardware. It's also kinda funny that in that version the enemies walk way too fast veritcally while on the SMS version they walk WAY too SLOW vertically. Looking at all the different versions with the various things that went wrong in each, you could really develop a master class in game development using this single game and its many ports as an example of why each component of a game (especially AI) is so important.
If I'm not mistaken, the now delisted Xbox 360 version by Empire Interactive had an achievement related to complete the game only using the back elbow move. At least I remember going through the whole game like that in order to achieve something, so I suppose I'm remembering it right.
The GBA port of Double Dragon is really a remake of it, absolutely amazing. By the way, have you ever heard Iridion II soundtrack on the GBA? It's not scratchy at all, the GBA can have great audio when done right, just like the Mega Drive can sound awful or amazing depending on the developer.
Loved double dragon from first sight but I can still see the issues it has. The slowdown and also the back elbow was game breaking. There was no point in doing any other move during the game
CPC is my favorite version, still have the original disk. They were two completely different versions, disk and cassette. The second was a cpc version that was ported to zx and then ported back to cpc (I think)
apperrently someone was able to extract the rom of the zeebo version, and the mame team is doing priliminary work on zeebo emulation. the only modivation for the rom getting dumped was apperrently so he could rip it's assets.
I hope it has a soundtrack as awesome as the IOS/Android version by the same developer has. The Boss music of that particular version sounds like something you'd get out of a MSX2 version with SCC+ sound catridge. ruclips.net/video/Hr0vxPaodJA/видео.html
That Zeebo footage isn't from a game trailer, it's from my channel... it would be nice to actually get some credit for once since Daniel Ibberson did the same thing to me in his double dragon retrospective video as well. Only person who was actually gracious enough to credit me in the description was Top Hat Gaming Man, but to straight up lie and say it's from a trailer- that's pretty messed up. I also have a tutorial on my channel displaying the moves and some extended juggles.
Sorry man but I did receive this footage from a source I asked and was told it is from a trailer. I'm more than happy to credit you in the next video. No problem at all. Actually, I'll check out your channel and make a quick promo video for you and post it here on my channel, linking to your channel. Let me know if you are cool with that.
@@RetroCore there isn’t really much there as it used to be a proper “channel” but now it’s just someplace I kind of upload gameplays with no real commentary or anything like that, so no need to promo me or anything, just a shoutout in the description or a pinned comment correcting the mistake would be fine. That being said, I sincerely appreciate you responding and explaining your part of it. That’s more than I’ve ever gotten from Daniel and when I nicely asked about it he kept erasing my messages from the comment section, which is probably why I came off a bit more hostile in my initial post that I should have been and I apologize for that. Also, you can easily get Double Dragon mobile up and running on a cheap iPod touch 4G and I can even walk you through setting up a program that will allow you to use a gamepad on it so that you don’t have to suffer through touch screen controls and can hook it up to a display via HDMI as well. I’ve even made a modified version of it that removes the touch screen controls completely from the screen so you can get a better view without the overlay in the way. If you’re interested, let me know and we can get that setup as well, but either way I really appreciate your response and offer to make it right. Thanks for that
No worries. I'll sort you out a pinned comment later on today when I get to a PC. Can't seem to do it from a phone. Maybe someone should do a RUclips scammers on Daniel 😜. I'm surprised he deleted your comments or never got back to you. Not cool at all. Thanks for the offer on how to get Mobile Double Dragon running. Sadly I don't own any apple devices, only Android.
@@RetroCore I really appreciate it! That’s really kind of you. Also, an iPod 4G you can get for about $20 usd on eBay! Just as a way to preserve and play the game, I think it’s worth it, but I totally understand if you’re gonna pass. Thanks again for being so gracious about all of this. You’re a real class act!
Yeah that too, although I actually like the music in the genesis version. Some like it, some hate it, just personal preference. But yeah the sound effects are bad in the genesis version, but imo they’re even worse in the lynx version. There, it sounds like you’re kissing your enemy every time you land a hit! At least it somewhat sounds like a hit in the genesis version.
My lunch money was spent on this for many months with other friends at a local corner shop from school. The shop owner must've made a fortune until he changed it to SWIV ☹️
Gba double dragon with all it's graphics and playing upgrades transforms this in a beat em up as good as streets of rage.. was a very good decision mixing DD1 and DD2 plus some stuff from the NES ports into a single game. I also like the anime style cutscenes
The arcade port that broke a 100,000 hearts. The Spectrum version is more a cruel joke than an arcade port. Developers were really hitting a wall on the 8-Bit systems at that point so maybe in hindsight some of the flaws are excusable, the Amiga and ST? Not so much, a lot of home computer ports were developed at that time by bunging an arcade owner a tenner and feeding the game credits all the way to the end whilst video taping it. UK developers tended not to spend so much time and money on hiring people specifically as graphic and sprite artists unfortunately, as it would take some actual artistic skill to work with just video taped footage.
All us Amiga owners know what a dog Double Dragon was, many tears were shed as a kid....... but why can, for instance, a Master System, which is an inferior system, have in game music and an Amiga can't? Never understood it. Whoever signed the Amiga version off should be ashamed. Luckily for us Double Dragon 2 was an absolute corker.
Yup, I was quite enraged and appalled by the Amiga version. As for why, the answer is simple: budget. Publishers knew the game would sell well enough because of the name and their return on investment was severely lowered by piracy so they kept development costs minimal and got the lowest/cheapest (in all senses of these terms) bidders to port the game as quickly as (in)humanely possible. I am not sure this one was published by US Gold but I am confident that company can be solely blamed for its influence on the arcade porting market and the resulting sorry state of affairs.
i liked the look of some of the remastered ones, never did rate the gameplay of the base game though.. For history's sake though, a relevant and interesting game :)
The first arcade game that I ever played during some holidays in 1989 and it was instant love! The game was badass but I also had a crush on the arcade experience as a whole: the cabinet (the look of the thing, the control panel and all), the skill required to get good at the game (and I loved to see older and better players trying to finish the game with only 1 coin), the overall underground atmosphere... It trully is a state of mind and something that is sadly lacking these days (even though there are still amusement arcades here and there but it's not as thrilling as it used to be). Now about your comparison video, it's spot on for the most part except the part about Atari since they actually DID a lot of great things, either them being hardwares (the Atari 2600, the Atari 8-bit computers, the POKEY, the Atari ST...) or softwares (many legendary arcade games such as Pong, Breakout, Centipede, Star Wars, Marble Madness, Gauntlet...) and it's interesting how several of their arcade games were not only successful in western arcades but also in Japanese arcades, as detailed in the respective wiki pages of the games (Star Wars or Marble Madness for instance). But you are right about the 7800, it was rather disappointing for its time but it's mostly because its release was post-poned (it was meant to be released in 1984 but ended being released in 1986 due to financial issues) and also because they had the bad idea to use the same sound chip as the 2600 instead of using a POKEY. The 7800 could have been something huge if it wasn't for these reasons and it's a shame because the console looks sooo cool and it has some interesting specs (its sprite capabilities for instance).
actually sega outsourced the master system port to Ark system works, who, coincidentally, later went on to acquire the rights to tecnos japan's entire catalog, with double dragon being something of a priority for the.
I spoke with Knight Technologies Tom Schenck about Lynx Double Dragon and he was kind enough to reply: "The Double Dragon game was the third product I worked on for Knight Technologies (the developer of the product, published by Telegames). It was the first where we had put together a complete Lynx game engine to work with for products, and I only worked on the game directly in the beginning months - it was finished by another programmer Alex, along with a few other products. I went on to start with some of the other titles you mention below. It was based on the arcade and Genesis versions of the game, and developed without access to the original source code (but we did have the Genesis sprite source art). We wanted to showcase the Lynx graphics and used pretty big sprites - perhaps a little bigger than needed, but it worked pretty well. It was certainly better written and put together than my first project. I think it only really suffered from some controller/input issues based on how the input was read in - with what I know now (about two decades more experience), I would have run an input system at a very high rate to make sure to capture button presses properly for attack/defend, but that meant you had to be a little lazy on your button pressing. I would say that it was a reasonably good port from a couple of somewhat junior developers on a quirky platform."
Yeah, this ties up the relation between the Lynx and the Mega Drive version. Some people thought the Lynx version was developed by the same developer of the Mega Drive version, Software Creations, but it seems not to be the case. It's just that somehow Telegames may have had a good relationship with Accolade to kindly have the Mega Drive version sprite source art requested from them. This also reminds me how similar the sprites of the Master System version developed by Arc System Works and produced/published by Sega are to the NES version created by Technos Japan. I suppose Technos didn't mind to share those assets for the creation of the Master System version, rather than creating completely from the ground up (even though the Billy and Jimmy sprites seem to be new and not based on the NES ones, which are a little ugly looking to be honest so maybe it was for the better).
*Thinking guy meme*: You didn't notice the simultaneous multiplayer being missing in the NES port, if you didn't have anyone to play it with you! ...I made myself sad!
@@RetroCore That's just how it was. My siblings were all much older than me, and there was virtually no one around for miles where I grew up. Definitely shaped my taste in games.
The Zeebo could have been a decent console. Not great, but could have the job done. Unfortunately, it wasn't give enough love. It was marketed as an entry level game system, so it would be affordable to many brazilians (since Brazil doesn't exactly swim in dough). However, I don't think it was cheap enough, at least, for the size and quality of the game library offered. Yes, it had some interesting games, but most of them were just mediocre ones for making a quick buck. I must concede that Zeebo had something really nice for brazilian standards: it had a built-in 3G wireless connection with no further payment needed. So, people didn't need wifi to play online or download games. Nice little feature, but it got discontinued alongside the console.
@@RetroCore Yes. TecToy, the main idealizer of the project, is a company which, by now, many brazilian gamers are used to see it dropping the ball. I've seen some foreign people praising them, but it's just an outsider view. They got a good start bringing Sega to Brazil in the late 80s, then making some simple romhacking, mostly translations or sprite modification. Unfortunately, they couldn't get over their stardom years with the Master System and Mega Drive. When Sega began having trouble with the Saturn onwards, so did TecToy, since they were (and are) overly reliant on Sega tecnologies, even though they market themselves as an all-around gaming company. People here were rooting for the Zeebo, but most of us knew that its success was, probably, just wishful thinking. Turned out everyone was right.
Does anyone know if there's anyway to get the Xbox 360 port anymore? I have the demo version but not the full game. To me this was a HD version done right as they used the original art as the basis unlike Street Fighter II HD which redrew all the art and it looks like crap.
When did they decide to change Billy from blonde to brunette, and the opposite? Also, thing about Advance I hated, were those "Agent" enemies encountered in Mission 2. They made it easy to lose your lives atop the semi trailer in Mission 4, due to how easily they do their inescapable combos.
The hair color change was something done by Technos Japan sometime around the time of the home version of Double Dragon III was done I believe. But normally this change is mostly reflected on Japanese artworks or Japanese developments. Given that even the arcade version of Double Dragon III still reflected the original color (but then again, that one was developed outside of Technos Japan), there's an inconsistency between the Double Dragon III versions because of that (see the Japanese cover of Double Dragon III for the Famicom and you'll see by then, the change already had taken place). Funnily enough, the Mega Drive cover of Double Dragon III by Acclaim seems to be based on the revised Japanese designs given that it depicts a brunette Billy and a blonde Jimmy, yet the game itself proves otherwise because of being strict to the arcade. This is similar to what happened with Battletoads Double Dragon by Rare which also sticks to the original hair color but depicts a blonde Jimmy in the cover art, so confusions were very typical back then. And let's not forget the cartoon Double Dragon also had a brunette Billy and a blonde Jimmy (Double Dragon V, based on the cartoon, reflected on that). Now check subsequent Japanese developed games like Super Double Dragon, Double Dragon II for the PC Engine CD (developed by Naxat Soft, this version is awesome by the way) or some Million licensed ones like Double Dragon Advance and the Brizo Interactive ones for IOS/Android and Zeebo, most of them are faithful to the Japanese color hair change. On a sidenote, the Neo Geo game by Technos Japan loosely based on the movie also went back to a blonde Billy and a brunette Jimmy (even though in the movie both of them were brunettes). And what you have now in modern iterations like Double Dragon Neon and Double Dragon IV? Right, a blonde Billy and a brunette Jimmy. So yeah, lots of confusions with this topic. I personally prefer the color hair change with the brunette Billy and the blonde JImmy to be honest, as I think it sticks better to their personalities for some reason.
I think they switched the brothers hair colors starting with Return of Double Dragon/Super Double Dragon IV . Than it was followed by the PC Engine port of Double Dragon II,the atrocious Double Dragon V and Double Dragon Advance. Strange that they returned it to the original hair colors with the Neo Geo fighting game.
The 'loading' you're seeing on the Ocean C64 version is because you're playing a cracked disk copy converted from the original cartridge version, which didn't have loading breaks. It also wasn't actually released, being designed for the terrible idea that was the C64GS.
Please tell me I'm begging you, how did you get the android version to run? I purchased it a long time ago but they shut the game down and I can no longer run it.
I feel sorry for anyone who owned any of these western computers back then, they almost always got terrible conversions of Japanese arcade games, and this is no exception. Though, in all fairness, the arcade original had issues with gameplay as you mentioned. The poor collision detection is my main gripe, and unfortunately many of the ports share the same issue. I'd say the Famicom, Game Boy, and Game Boy Advance releases are the ones to get, and possibly the Zeebo version if it plays as well as it looks and sounds. The SMS port has good presentation and actual multiplayer going for it, but I disgree with the general assessment that it's better than its rival Famicom version because it has very poor collision detection. I've never played, and likely never will get to play, the Xbox 360 version, but it seems to follow the arcade gameplay perfectly.... which unfortunately hurts more than it helps in this case. TL;DR: Go with the Nintendo versions for the best experience, skip the rest
I'll take it a step further Mark. Without Double Dragon there would be no Final Fight. Without that there wouldn't be the Dungeons and Dragons games by Capcom. And without them there wouldn't be the greatest beat em up ever made which is Dragons Crown.
Double Dragon Advance is my favorite, with Xbox 360 coming in second and honorable mentions to SMS and NES. I'd rather have had an enhanced port of DDA for PS4 instead of Double Dragon IV. None of the computer ports are good.
Fun fact: The SMS version was also programmed by Arc, which was the first game they ever worked. Arc would be renamed as Arc System Works in the future and now, they owns DD and other Technos IPs.
I find amazing how every good fighting game nowadays that isn't handled by a big name of the genre (like Capcom or Snk) is published by Arc System those days... and they have some amazing games.
That’s awesome! Who knew I’ve been playing games by Arc for so long!
@TrueSinister Ok, good point :)
DD 4 was Garbage looks like DD II on the NES.
And look at how they've languished.
THE constant slowdown was actually fixed in the US arcade version. when taito released the arcade version in the west, they added an aditional CPU to handel colision detection.
Oh right was that official? I heard other RUclipsr suggest that was a bootleg version.
@@James-fo8rf I don't think as I played the US arcade version, and it still has lots of slowdown.
@@James-fo8rf no. it was an official release. the fact it is mistaken to be a bootleg is mainly due to lack of communication on the parts of both Taito and tecnos and I highly doubt square enix or Ark system works know anything about this.
I think that must be a rare revision?
@@RetroCore probably. Most people assume there are little differences between the JP and US versions. little info exists on this revision which is why is mistaken for a bootleg.
Absolutely wonderful remaster, Mark. Even with it's faults, I love Double Dragon; it's one of my favorite games of all time. From the mid-80s through the early 00s, a small local/semi-regional arcade and other amusement machine distributor (called L&L, I think) was located near my grandparents' house. They re-sold machines but mainly operated on a sort-of rental system where arcades/bars/bowling alleys/stores/etc would choose machines, the distributor would maintain the machines, and then both share the game income 50/50. So, places that were very close by (a bowling alley, restaurants, etc) were able to rotate out to new games pretty quickly. There was a pretty terrible department store-that closed in the early 90s-just a few minutes from the distributor and within 10 minutes walk of my grandparents' place, and though it was a pretty junk store, in the entrance area they always had 2 or 3 machines, with most being pretty new. So, when I visited, usually with a cousin of similar age, on weekends-which was pretty often, since they lived a little less than 30 miles away-my young uncle (RIP...just 3 years older than myself), my cousin, and I would always go and drop a few dollars into whatever machines they had at the time. When Double Dragon showed up-before any of us had ever heard about the game-we were hooked immediately. I know it and Road Blasters (stand-up cabinet) showed up there in a similar time-frame, and I'm pretty sure that Out Run was still the third game they had then but was swapped for Final Lap at some point there. The music in Double Dragon was amazing, especially the title theme and Riot/Industrial-area, and the co-op gameplay was so fun. We played a ton on that arcade cab, and it's the first arcade game I remember getting to the end of-though my uncle was relentless and smoked me in the end...on more than one occasion. I loved the music in Double Dragon so much that around 2000-01 or so I even bought the Original Sound of Double Dragon cassette through a proxy on yahoo auctions Japan.
We also had a lot of fun when the NES version came out: my uncle would come over (my uncle didn't have any consoles at the time), and we'd play it along with my dad and sometimes my other uncle who was probably in his early 20s at the time. We rented it a few times, but dad just ended up going out and buying it for me, which is probably one of the only games in that time-frame that was bought outside of birthdays/christmas. That uncle ended up getting a Game Boy on launch and did end up with the Game Boy port of Double Dragon whenever that came out. However, I wonder why he never picked up the PC version, since he did have a 286 at the time and had plenty of other ports like Ninja Gaiden and Bad Dudes. Personally, I actually prefer the Game Boy version over all of the other versions except Double Dragon Advance and the arcade original. The Game Boy music is amazing, not quite as good as either the arcade or Genesis soundtracks in my opinion but still great, and the pacing of that port makes it something you can just sit down and relax and play. I ended up with the Game Boy Double Dragon as well a little later when I got a Game Boy after Metroid II came out. That uncle also gave me his own Game Boy and his games a couple of months before he passed away a two years ago, so playing Double Dragon these days is a bit bitter-sweet. Interestingly, he loved playing games and kept playing on PC through the years, but besides the original Game Boy that he had said he occasionally still played, the only other game system he ever bought was the fat DS to play Mario 64 DS, since he had played through when I let him borrow my N64 for a while in the late 90s.
Besides the NES and GB versions, I also own the ports for Genesis, Master System, Atari 2600, 7800, 360, and Double Dragon Advance. The Genesis version I got close to release, 360 and DD Advance I got day one, but the others were later acquisitions. I have a love-hate relationship with the Genesis release. I played it a ton back them and was impressed with the speed and music, but it's just too fast for me anymore...I just don't have the reaction time to keep up. BTW, there was an interview/article online a couple of years ago with the guy, Pete Andrews, at Software Creations that did the Genesis port that's pretty interesting. I believe the game was designed around the PAL Mega Drive first, which may explain the cracked-out speed. The Atari 2600 version is an interesting curiosity, but, man, do I get smoked any time I've ever played it. I've tried with the standard VCS joystick, my Wico bat joystick, and with a Genesis 3-button pad, but I can't make it anywhere in that game. And, though I own both a loose and a sealed copy of the 7800 game, I don't actually have a 7800. I've played it through emulation, and though I can definitely do better than on the 2600 game, I do agree in that it's a disappointing port. I know a while back there were some efforts to do some redesign work on the graphics as well as add Pokey-chip music, but I haven't kept up on if that ever went anywhere. The Master System port is fine enough, though the collision detection can be annoying. Though I got it later than even the Genesis version, I think I would have been fine with that copy when younger. Double Dragon Advance is just amazing. There's nothing else to say about the GBA game: it's just great.
Thanks for revisiting this one Mark! A DD comparison video always provides a lot of "schadenfreude". I mainly played it on the GBA, which is a lot of fun, even though it's more of a remix / re-imagining.
Absolutely criminal you did not mention the C64 Ocean port's audio, far better than any version + it has a vastly superior boss theme that got cut
The Double Dragon port to the SMS was actually one of Arc System Works’ (then simply called Arc) first games. Today, they own the Double Dragon IP!
I always liked that you can throw guys off the screen. Cool feature.
I love how they made fun of that in Neon.
I love to throw them in the pits, cliffs and water.
Atari under the Tramiel family were never embarrassed about anything they put out on console, they were only interested in getting product out as cheaply as possible.
So many 7800,Lynx and Jaguar games suffered by being on smallest possible cartridges..
The shoulder strike is the key to one-credit the arcade game
But, we never know, just before the final boss... jump jump and hope
Lovely to see this classic get the remastering treatment, and it made for an enjoyable episode, especially with the many ports. I got really into Double Dragon after seeing it in the arcades and I've loved beat-em-up games ever since. They're my favorite. DD arcade does have technical issues and plays oddly compared to what came later(1989 would be quite a year of evolution for the genre), but I went back to it roughly a year ago and still had fun, but I get why others may not like it.
I agree about the HD makeover of the 360. The graphics look too clean. It makes everything look disconnected. I had the same problem with other HD games, even ones with more effort on the art. There seems to be a blind spot when it comes to designing graphics that are cohesive and not detached. Otherwise, it looks like a reasonable version since they left the game play alone.
I had a school friend who got a Game Boy before anyone else I knew, and he picked up Double Dragon when that came out, so I got to play it when it was new and I remember it being a lot of fun. I played again early this year and still enjoyed it. The Mega Drive version is such a shame because it looks really good, but it's such a mess. It would have been so cool to have a great arcade port of the game on MD at that point. The GBA version is fantastic. I only got around to playing it earlier this year. And finally, I remember standing at the counter of a large toy store when my mom bought the Master System version for me when I was still quite young. I didn't even know it existed and I was so excited because I loved the arcade version. I wasn't disappointed, and it was one of my favorite games for the system.
I had that Mastertronic C64 port. One of the first things I noticed with it was the transparent line through the characters who I guess were made up of two sprites joined together.
You're absolutely correct there.
@@RetroCore
The developers actually apologized for that in the instruction book, if memory serves.
As opposed to all the things they actually owed an apology for.
I played the DOS version a few times with a friend on his PC when I didn't have one myself, both players on the keyboard. Some fun times were had.
Awesome as always thanks Mark. So many memories with this ace game and will always be associated with my school friends. Clearing this and winning the final battle against best friend is burnt into memory. So many bad versions to choose from as a favourite but I'll go with that awesome gba port. Even though I've never owned one it's a shame the X68000 never got version.
I'm very surprised this never did get a Japanese computer port. Kind of strange that is.
Amazing BotP! I played a lot of this ports of that loved game, and the best experience for me in all the aspects was Megadrive one.
Even if by today standars it really shows his rough edges, I'll admit that this game has a charm to it. btw the GBA game is great. It modernizes and improves everything from the original (except for the music).
The original arcade game overclocked through emulation is pretty cool but really short by modern standards.
And now, the Zeebo version is possible to emulate.
And by all account, it's great.
It is? I need to look in to some zeebo emulation.
Just do the back elbow. Cheap but will get you through the whole game.
The existence of the 2600 port has haunted me since childhood. I know the company was trying to squeeze as much as they could have on their dated hardware, but that's just insane.
Even then, they could have tried to make it playable :D
I'd question if that was even possible. I'm sure there's some home computer ports that had a similar configuration, but the Atari controller is just a joystick and one action button. Perfect for a shooter or an arcade platformer where you perform one action, but downright useless in a Beat'em up. At best, you could probably just throw a punch or a kick, but you wouldn't be able to make a specific action. At worst, the attack button would do whatever the hell it wanted to. It's not so much a good or bad port, so much as an ill-advised port. But hey, whatever keeps 70's technology afloat when the 16 bit era was already starting.
@@mightyfilm It was an Atari 2600. The only flaw of that Double Dragon game, as an Atari 2600 game, it's the fact the AI is completely relentless. I saw a video of a guy actually finishing the game (I could never get past level 1, and the game has 5 levels) and he had to use like 1000 save states to beat the frigging game because the AI is just impossible.
The game is an *amazing* achievement for an Atari 2600. And if I had just an Atari 2600 in 1989 and this just had a decent AI, I would have loved it, even if it doesn't look or remembers Double Dragon at all :D
I have tremendous respect they even made such a game with limitations on the hardware. Everything I've seen pushed the hell out of the boundaries of what they could do. I'll just never stop thinking how weird it was. I first saw the game when I was young. Before I got an NES I had a hand me down 2600. I remember seeing a slew of marked down 2600 games at KB Toys, forget which one I bought, but I saw Double Dragon and I was amazed that it existed even as a kid. My friend had the NES version and we'd play it from time to time.
@@mightyfilm
Kung Fu Master pushed the limits of what they could do. Double Dragon ignored those limits, and decided a drunk car alarm singing bits of the soundtrack was a higher priority than the stun lock.
I remember playing way too many hours Double Dragon II with my friend with two gameboys when I was young :-D
Nice video, as always. Happy Birthday and salutes from Brazil.
Thanks man. Went out for a nice meal for my birthday
Absolutely love this game. The arcade has its charm.
I used to play the NES version as a kid which felt incredibly difficult because of the timer. As an adult, it's way easier to cheese with the “elbow” hit!
As original as the Nes version was, back in the day the master system version wiped the floor with it and still does IMO
I loved the Master System version back in the day. Played it to death
Nice way to dig through the 1 bullion ports of this game!
It seems mad to think DD was less than 2 years prior to FF which seems so much more advanced (graphically anyway).
I own the Double Dragon/Kunio Kun collection on the Switch- you've inspired me to dust it off tonight! Great vid as always.
I love the music. It is the epitome of arcade games.
DD song kicks in. Nostalgia over 9000. By the way, Jimmy and Billy should've put a cowbell or an alarm on Marian. That would've saved them some headaches, since Marian managed to get kidnapped more than Princess Peach.
So, about the Zeebo port, I saw a post some time ago about people talked about the Zeebo version in a forum I make part of, and the people who played it said the gameplay was really good, some even said they liked it more than the GBA version, so yeah, it's a real shame it is locked up to the Zeebo;
I agree it's better than the GBA version and propbably the best version of Double Dragon. Which it's insane since the Zeebo got mostly really awful games.
It wouldn't surprise me as the smartphone version would also play really well if it used proper controls.
as a double dragon fan and not a zeebo fanboy like some brazilians i can say, gba version is better than zeebo in every possible way
Double Dragon had such an impact at the time, and partly I think because it was a video game version of those B grade 80's action movies with fights in a decaying urban environment. It sure captured our imagination. You'd even find cabinets with this game well into the 90's (and since it was really everywhere I assume it was bootlegged a lot). I'm glad the horrific C64 versions totaly flew under my radar at the time. Shame about the Spectrum and CPC as Renegade (Kunio-kun) was converted pretty well to these computers, so a decent game of Double Dragon was certainly possible. I have the Master System game and it's not a bad button masher to boot every now and then.
I grew up with the Master System version. I really enjoyed playing it with my friends back in the day.
@@RetroCore I was a late comer to that port, but didn't like it. The hit detection makes or breaks a game like this.
...and there would never have been a Double Dragon if there wasn't a Renegade before it, the real granddaddy.
I have always found funny that the aspects where the Mega Drive version of Double Dragon success and fails, are exactly the reversed aspects where the Mega Drive version of Double Dragon II success and fails. It's like if you could somehow mishmash the strenghts of both conversions and disregard their respective weaknesses, you would have perfect versions of both Double Dragon and Double Dragon II on the console.
Happy Birthday Mark!
Thanks, SilkSlayer.
My favourite arcade game.....really enjoyed this mate 👍🏻
It's a shame so many of the early home computer ports were quick cash grabs with very little quality control or any pride in the games they released. It seems like a little bit of extra effort could've made a huge difference.
Alien Storm on the ZX Spectrum was very impressive.. In parts it looked like a monochrome arcade game.
There's a good hack for the MD port that fixes the AI; it just needs better sound now!
Its serviceable on NES and Master System, they dropped the ball on the micros (as usual) for the most part. The Genesis is a missed opportunity. DOS isn't all too hot. Game Boy is great given the hardware. 2600 knows how to work within the limitations. 7800 is a farce. GBA is great.
You said it, they dropped the ball and it landed on their family jewels. I only played the Amiga version and it was laughingly bad. I think Mark was actually very generous with it as I was never able to enjoy anything about it gameplay wise.
The 2600 could have been a lot better. There's a graphics hack, already. Now all it needs is for someone to rip out the music and use the spare memory for stun locks and varying enemy difficulty.
I'd say the cheap AI in the Mega Drive port is more due to the ultra fast speed the game runs in. There's a RUclips video showing DD1 arcade without slowdown and it seems the enemy movements and speed are pretty close to what you'd see in the MD port, though enemies do alternative between targeting the two players.
Also, the headbutt and elbow smash are in the Atari Lynx version
Yeah, looking at that video again, they do seem to follow the good ol method of
"If Player y = Enemy y Then
Enemy x Moveto Player x - 16
Else Enemy y Moveto Player y"
and
"If Enemy1 y = Player y And Enemy1 x = Player x - 16 Then
Enemy2 Moveto Player x + 16"
Yeah, something like that, lol. I'm not a coder, so don't judge me.
@Solar Flare
There's a hack of the Megadrive port that slows the enemy walking speed (not sure if it changes the AI), and it's a dramatic difference in how well the game plays. It may be better than the original arcade.
The headbutt and head smash are performed by holding down and punch or kick on the lynx.
I just played the 7800 port of Double Dragon and wow it's a stinker compared to the Master System.
"Big middle finger to those that said digital is the way forward" 🤣
It's so true though. I've lost 8 games that I fully paid for now because of the BD digital only media.
Great videos! Got a new subscriber here, keep it up.
EDIT: it's a good idea put the year of release besides (or below) every console logo? That way we can get track of the "evolution" of ports.
Tha ks for subscribing. Hope you enjoy the channel's content.
About the dates, sometimes it's tricky to get the correct date. In recent videos the games are shown in chronological order though. I get the data from Japanese wiki pages. Something English Wiki pages don't don.
My top tiers:
God Tier:
Double Dragon Advance, THE port, merging things from the first two games, adding new stages and foes and making the controllers smotth, my only gripe is the difficulty leap in the truck stage where those suited bastards will cheese you with that near inpenertable combo even on easy if you don't spam running kicks or the uppercut, but after that the game gets back to honest challenge, and the best part the Game link allows to share the experience with a friend, like Billy and Jimmy would liked in the NES
Great Tier:
Arcade Original: Slowdown aside (I'm used to that from shooters) the game looks great, plays fine and while slower than the beat em ups it inspired you can't deny why it was so ported, hard but worth it if you find an arcade
Fine Tier:
Genesis: Haven't played but for the footage i can tell it's pretty much an average recreation with the unfair AI aforementioned
SMS: Played only once, plays like an original SMS game instead of a port, good but not without issues
NES: At the risk of sounding controversial i don't find this one that good, i mean is good as a port but... it just don't feel good to me, added plataforming with disjointed jumping hitboxes that WILL make you fall, the checkpoint system makes Stage 4 cheap and slight imput lag while cornered, the music, extra parts and leveling system makes it good thought, especially that remix of stage 1, but otherwise i stick to DD2
Bad Tier: Zeebo: Looks fine, but i am not buying the Ouya's ancestor for just a game that if i am (un)lucky to find may suffer from the console's issues
Crap Tier: The rest: ¿SERIOUSLY, A BEAT EM UP IN ATARI 2600?
So many versions, so many controversies, lol. I played the NES version first and loved it. Played the arcade version next and loved it even more. Years later the GBA 'reimagining' of it came out and was also really good. Every other port has flaws ranging from medium to severe. Most of the console and handheld versions range from decent to at least tolerable, but many of the 8 and 16-bit computer versions are just bad. The Amiga port may go down in history as my personal single most disappointing game on the entire platform.
It's funny that you get a badly playing version on the Atari 7800 that still has a positive of having zero flicker no matter how much is on screen thanks to specialized hardware. It's also kinda funny that in that version the enemies walk way too fast veritcally while on the SMS version they walk WAY too SLOW vertically. Looking at all the different versions with the various things that went wrong in each, you could really develop a master class in game development using this single game and its many ports as an example of why each component of a game (especially AI) is so important.
GBA is awesome, thank u for praising this game! :D
It sure is. While I have more nostalgia for the Master System version, the GBA version is the best I've played.
I watched a guy complete double dragon in the arcade with just 10p - he only used the back elbow move almost the whole time - amazing
Yeah same here, I remember watching other kids spamming the elbow move without end. They kept winning but what a boring experience 😑
Amiga and st versions sounded like you were hitting a snare drum rather than hitting people. 🤣
Hugely overpowered move.
But you still had to be good with timing it.
@@ArmandQ.
It's a slow move, you cannot spam it but I get your point.
If I'm not mistaken, the now delisted Xbox 360 version by Empire Interactive had an achievement related to complete the game only using the back elbow move. At least I remember going through the whole game like that in order to achieve something, so I suppose I'm remembering it right.
Double Dragon!! Count me in Mark. I still have my launch day version for the NES. 8^)
Anthony..
Game Boy version is brilliant. Love the music.
that nes port is...well...legendary
The zeebo look very Nice, i hope play someday.
The GBA port of Double Dragon is really a remake of it, absolutely amazing. By the way, have you ever heard Iridion II soundtrack on the GBA? It's not scratchy at all, the GBA can have great audio when done right, just like the Mega Drive can sound awful or amazing depending on the developer.
Iridion 1 and 2 both have amazing soundtracks. One of the few GBA games that actually has a good audio driver.
Favorite game ever
Loved double dragon from first sight but I can still see the issues it has. The slowdown and also the back elbow was game breaking. There was no point in doing any other move during the game
CPC is my favorite version, still have the original disk.
They were two completely different versions, disk and cassette.
The second was a cpc version that was ported to zx and then ported back to cpc (I think)
Wow, that second one couldn't have been much good.
Grew up with the godawful Amiga verison.
I'm still in therapy.
loved this game 80s arcade❤❤❤
Seu canal é sensacional, cara.
i own the sms and ps3 versions...very good video, as usual ^^
apperrently someone was able to extract the rom of the zeebo version, and the mame team is doing priliminary work on zeebo emulation. the only modivation for the rom getting dumped was apperrently so he could rip it's assets.
Nice. Finally we may get the chance to actually play this version.
I hope it has a soundtrack as awesome as the IOS/Android version by the same developer has. The Boss music of that particular version sounds like something you'd get out of a MSX2 version with SCC+ sound catridge. ruclips.net/video/Hr0vxPaodJA/видео.html
Cool video ,I bought this on xbla arcade in the early years of the Xbox 360 ,before it was removed from the store .
That Zeebo footage isn't from a game trailer, it's from my channel... it would be nice to actually get some credit for once since Daniel Ibberson did the same thing to me in his double dragon retrospective video as well. Only person who was actually gracious enough to credit me in the description was Top Hat Gaming Man, but to straight up lie and say it's from a trailer- that's pretty messed up.
I also have a tutorial on my channel displaying the moves and some extended juggles.
Sorry man but I did receive this footage from a source I asked and was told it is from a trailer.
I'm more than happy to credit you in the next video. No problem at all.
Actually, I'll check out your channel and make a quick promo video for you and post it here on my channel, linking to your channel.
Let me know if you are cool with that.
@@RetroCore there isn’t really much there as it used to be a proper “channel” but now it’s just someplace I kind of upload gameplays with no real commentary or anything like that, so no need to promo me or anything, just a shoutout in the description or a pinned comment correcting the mistake would be fine.
That being said, I sincerely appreciate you responding and explaining your part of it. That’s more than I’ve ever gotten from Daniel and when I nicely asked about it he kept erasing my messages from the comment section, which is probably why I came off a bit more hostile in my initial post that I should have been and I apologize for that.
Also, you can easily get Double Dragon mobile up and running on a cheap iPod touch 4G and I can even walk you through setting up a program that will allow you to use a gamepad on it so that you don’t have to suffer through touch screen controls and can hook it up to a display via HDMI as well.
I’ve even made a modified version of it that removes the touch screen controls completely from the screen so you can get a better view without the overlay in the way.
If you’re interested, let me know and we can get that setup as well, but either way I really appreciate your response and offer to make it right.
Thanks for that
No worries. I'll sort you out a pinned comment later on today when I get to a PC. Can't seem to do it from a phone.
Maybe someone should do a RUclips scammers on Daniel 😜. I'm surprised he deleted your comments or never got back to you. Not cool at all.
Thanks for the offer on how to get Mobile Double Dragon running. Sadly I don't own any apple devices, only Android.
I've added a little comment to the video discription 👍. This was possible to do from the phone.
@@RetroCore I really appreciate it! That’s really kind of you. Also, an iPod 4G you can get for about $20 usd on eBay! Just as a way to preserve and play the game, I think it’s worth it, but I totally understand if you’re gonna pass.
Thanks again for being so gracious about all of this. You’re a real class act!
The MD version had SO much potential... if only they fixed the control issues and AI
Also why do all the terrible C64 ports have the best music?
you didn’t notice the lousy poor made sound effects?
Yeah that too, although I actually like the music in the genesis version. Some like it, some hate it, just personal preference. But yeah the sound effects are bad in the genesis version, but imo they’re even worse in the lynx version. There, it sounds like you’re kissing your enemy every time you land a hit! At least it somewhat sounds like a hit in the genesis version.
if they didn’t update or upgrade the music in the Sega Genesis/Mega-Drive port it might’ve had better sound effects
The best version for me is the Master system cause that is all for nostalgia and childhood memories when I was a kid.
Same here.
sega had better graphics and game play
My lunch money was spent on this for many months with other friends at a local corner shop from school. The shop owner must've made a fortune until he changed it to SWIV ☹️
Changing Double Dragon to Swiv was a bad move for sure.
Gba double dragon with all it's graphics and playing upgrades transforms this in a beat em up as good as streets of rage.. was a very good decision mixing DD1 and DD2 plus some stuff from the NES ports into a single game. I also like the anime style cutscenes
The arcade port that broke a 100,000 hearts. The Spectrum version is more a cruel joke than an arcade port. Developers were really hitting a wall on the 8-Bit systems at that point so maybe in hindsight some of the flaws are excusable, the Amiga and ST? Not so much, a lot of home computer ports were developed at that time by bunging an arcade owner a tenner and feeding the game credits all the way to the end whilst video taping it. UK developers tended not to spend so much time and money on hiring people specifically as graphic and sprite artists unfortunately, as it would take some actual artistic skill to work with just video taped footage.
All us Amiga owners know what a dog Double Dragon was, many tears were shed as a kid....... but why can, for instance, a Master System, which is an inferior system, have in game music and an Amiga can't? Never understood it. Whoever signed the Amiga version off should be ashamed. Luckily for us Double Dragon 2 was an absolute corker.
Yup, I was quite enraged and appalled by the Amiga version. As for why, the answer is simple: budget. Publishers knew the game would sell well enough because of the name and their return on investment was severely lowered by piracy so they kept development costs minimal and got the lowest/cheapest (in all senses of these terms) bidders to port the game as quickly as (in)humanely possible.
I am not sure this one was published by US Gold but I am confident that company can be solely blamed for its influence on the arcade porting market and the resulting sorry state of affairs.
Arcadia or Melbourne House was the publisher of Amiga Double Dragon
5:01 my left ear liked it
i liked the look of some of the remastered ones, never did rate the gameplay of the base game though.. For history's sake though, a relevant and interesting game :)
Very rare to hear of a title where the ST version has better sound FX than the Amiga version..
The first arcade game that I ever played during some holidays in 1989 and it was instant love! The game was badass but I also had a crush on the arcade experience as a whole: the cabinet (the look of the thing, the control panel and all), the skill required to get good at the game (and I loved to see older and better players trying to finish the game with only 1 coin), the overall underground atmosphere... It trully is a state of mind and something that is sadly lacking these days (even though there are still amusement arcades here and there but it's not as thrilling as it used to be).
Now about your comparison video, it's spot on for the most part except the part about Atari since they actually DID a lot of great things, either them being hardwares (the Atari 2600, the Atari 8-bit computers, the POKEY, the Atari ST...) or softwares (many legendary arcade games such as Pong, Breakout, Centipede, Star Wars, Marble Madness, Gauntlet...) and it's interesting how several of their arcade games were not only successful in western arcades but also in Japanese arcades, as detailed in the respective wiki pages of the games (Star Wars or Marble Madness for instance). But you are right about the 7800, it was rather disappointing for its time but it's mostly because its release was post-poned (it was meant to be released in 1984 but ended being released in 1986 due to financial issues) and also because they had the bad idea to use the same sound chip as the 2600 instead of using a POKEY. The 7800 could have been something huge if it wasn't for these reasons and it's a shame because the console looks sooo cool and it has some interesting specs (its sprite capabilities for instance).
Here’s A Fun Fact. The First Version Of Double Dragon I Played Was The Nintendo Entertainment System Port From 1988.
Amazing job as always Mark, the original DD is certainly the daddy of modern beat'em ups, and the grandfather is Kung Fu Master
ive always liked the nes versions especially Double dragon II and double dragon III
The Arcade music is classic, it even won an award. The NES doesn't come close. Neither does the Megadrive.
actually sega outsourced the master system port to Ark system works, who, coincidentally, later went on to acquire the rights to tecnos japan's entire catalog, with double dragon being something of a priority for the.
**looks at Double Dragon 4** If that's how they handle their priorities, it was better left dead.
Cool, I didn't know that
I spoke with Knight Technologies Tom Schenck about Lynx Double Dragon and he was kind enough to reply:
"The Double Dragon game was the third product I worked on for Knight Technologies (the developer of the product, published by Telegames). It was the first where we had put together a complete Lynx game engine to work with for products, and I only worked on the game directly in the beginning months - it was finished by another programmer Alex, along with a few other products. I went on to start with some of the other titles you mention below.
It was based on the arcade and Genesis versions of the game, and developed without access to the original source code (but we did have the Genesis sprite source art). We wanted to showcase the Lynx graphics and used pretty big sprites - perhaps a little bigger than needed, but it worked pretty well. It was certainly better written and put together than my first project.
I think it only really suffered from some controller/input issues based on how the input was read in - with what I know now (about two decades more experience), I would have run an input system at a very high rate to make sure to capture button presses properly for attack/defend, but that meant you had to be a little lazy on your button pressing.
I would say that it was a reasonably good port from a couple of somewhat junior developers on a quirky platform."
Nice reply. I'm happy to see I was right in thinking it was based upon the Mega Drive version too.
Yeah, this ties up the relation between the Lynx and the Mega Drive version. Some people thought the Lynx version was developed by the same developer of the Mega Drive version, Software Creations, but it seems not to be the case. It's just that somehow Telegames may have had a good relationship with Accolade to kindly have the Mega Drive version sprite source art requested from them. This also reminds me how similar the sprites of the Master System version developed by Arc System Works and produced/published by Sega are to the NES version created by Technos Japan. I suppose Technos didn't mind to share those assets for the creation of the Master System version, rather than creating completely from the ground up (even though the Billy and Jimmy sprites seem to be new and not based on the NES ones, which are a little ugly looking to be honest so maybe it was for the better).
*Thinking guy meme*: You didn't notice the simultaneous multiplayer being missing in the NES port, if you didn't have anyone to play it with you!
...I made myself sad!
Lol, shouldn't laugh but that's kind of funny in a sad way.
@@RetroCore That's just how it was. My siblings were all much older than me, and there was virtually no one around for miles where I grew up. Definitely shaped my taste in games.
The xbox 360 is the best arcade conversion at Home.
The GBA is so fun to play 👍
The Zeebo could have been a decent console. Not great, but could have the job done. Unfortunately, it wasn't give enough love. It was marketed as an entry level game system, so it would be affordable to many brazilians (since Brazil doesn't exactly swim in dough). However, I don't think it was cheap enough, at least, for the size and quality of the game library offered. Yes, it had some interesting games, but most of them were just mediocre ones for making a quick buck.
I must concede that Zeebo had something really nice for brazilian standards: it had a built-in 3G wireless connection with no further payment needed. So, people didn't need wifi to play online or download games. Nice little feature, but it got discontinued alongside the console.
It was an amazing idea, especially with the built in 3G connection. It's a shame it never had the chance to succeed.
@@RetroCore Yes. TecToy, the main idealizer of the project, is a company which, by now, many brazilian gamers are used to see it dropping the ball. I've seen some foreign people praising them, but it's just an outsider view. They got a good start bringing Sega to Brazil in the late 80s, then making some simple romhacking, mostly translations or sprite modification. Unfortunately, they couldn't get over their stardom years with the Master System and Mega Drive. When Sega began having trouble with the Saturn onwards, so did TecToy, since they were (and are) overly reliant on Sega tecnologies, even though they market themselves as an all-around gaming company. People here were rooting for the Zeebo, but most of us knew that its success was, probably, just wishful thinking. Turned out everyone was right.
Does anyone know if there's anyway to get the Xbox 360 port anymore? I have the demo version but not the full game. To me this was a HD version done right as they used the original art as the basis unlike Street Fighter II HD which redrew all the art and it looks like crap.
Sadly not unless you have a jtaged system that can run illegal files. Even then I've no idea where the game can be found.
Boss, another, again, amazing video.
I played this game on Sega Master System in 1989. This game was a made huge success in Brazil.
I think that's why it was one of the most popular Zeebo releases.
@@RetroCoreExactly!
It would be cool if you made a battle of the ports episode about Asuka 120% burning fest.
I'm been thinking about that one. Need to get myself the PlayStation version.
I think you can find the ps1 version on the web and burn it to a cd and play it on your ps2
When did they decide to change Billy from blonde to brunette, and the opposite? Also, thing about Advance I hated, were those "Agent" enemies encountered in Mission 2. They made it easy to lose your lives atop the semi trailer in Mission 4, due to how easily they do their inescapable combos.
Yeah, those Agent enemies are a pain.
The hair color change was something done by Technos Japan sometime around the time of the home version of Double Dragon III was done I believe. But normally this change is mostly reflected on Japanese artworks or Japanese developments. Given that even the arcade version of Double Dragon III still reflected the original color (but then again, that one was developed outside of Technos Japan), there's an inconsistency between the Double Dragon III versions because of that (see the Japanese cover of Double Dragon III for the Famicom and you'll see by then, the change already had taken place). Funnily enough, the Mega Drive cover of Double Dragon III by Acclaim seems to be based on the revised Japanese designs given that it depicts a brunette Billy and a blonde Jimmy, yet the game itself proves otherwise because of being strict to the arcade. This is similar to what happened with Battletoads Double Dragon by Rare which also sticks to the original hair color but depicts a blonde Jimmy in the cover art, so confusions were very typical back then. And let's not forget the cartoon Double Dragon also had a brunette Billy and a blonde Jimmy (Double Dragon V, based on the cartoon, reflected on that). Now check subsequent Japanese developed games like Super Double Dragon, Double Dragon II for the PC Engine CD (developed by Naxat Soft, this version is awesome by the way) or some Million licensed ones like Double Dragon Advance and the Brizo Interactive ones for IOS/Android and Zeebo, most of them are faithful to the Japanese color hair change. On a sidenote, the Neo Geo game by Technos Japan loosely based on the movie also went back to a blonde Billy and a brunette Jimmy (even though in the movie both of them were brunettes). And what you have now in modern iterations like Double Dragon Neon and Double Dragon IV? Right, a blonde Billy and a brunette Jimmy. So yeah, lots of confusions with this topic. I personally prefer the color hair change with the brunette Billy and the blonde JImmy to be honest, as I think it sticks better to their personalities for some reason.
I think they switched the brothers hair colors starting with Return of Double Dragon/Super Double Dragon IV .
Than it was followed by the PC Engine port of Double Dragon II,the atrocious Double Dragon V and Double Dragon Advance.
Strange that they returned it to the original hair colors with the Neo Geo fighting game.
Amazing video thanks!! Agree best version is gba.ideal for building finger muscles
Both c64 ports were pish. Pretty unforgivable when you see how Target Renegade turned out. Double Dragon II was better, but still bare-bones at best.
The 'loading' you're seeing on the Ocean C64 version is because you're playing a cracked disk copy converted from the original cartridge version, which didn't have loading breaks. It also wasn't actually released, being designed for the terrible idea that was the C64GS.
Ah I see. Thank God it wasn't originally developed like that.
So many versions, so many memories of Game OVER hahaha.. nice vid as always!
Funny too see so many ports of DD and still is the SMS who wins.
The 360 version has the arcade graphics included so you don't have to tolerate the smudgy Flash-style re-skin.
Please tell me I'm begging you, how did you get the android version to run? I purchased it a long time ago but they shut the game down and I can no longer run it.
This is on an old phone that I had. It just runs.
Sega Master System hands down the best next to Arcade.
Especially if accurate collision detection killed your family, and you've held a grudge ever since.
best DD
Arcade
snes
gameboy advance
SMS wins slightly over the NES version. PC Homeports look like they could give someone cancer.
I feel sorry for anyone who owned any of these western computers back then, they almost always got terrible conversions of Japanese arcade games, and this is no exception. Though, in all fairness, the arcade original had issues with gameplay as you mentioned. The poor collision detection is my main gripe, and unfortunately many of the ports share the same issue. I'd say the Famicom, Game Boy, and Game Boy Advance releases are the ones to get, and possibly the Zeebo version if it plays as well as it looks and sounds. The SMS port has good presentation and actual multiplayer going for it, but I disgree with the general assessment that it's better than its rival Famicom version because it has very poor collision detection. I've never played, and likely never will get to play, the Xbox 360 version, but it seems to follow the arcade gameplay perfectly.... which unfortunately hurts more than it helps in this case.
TL;DR: Go with the Nintendo versions for the best experience, skip the rest
Basically, until the days of maybe later Saturn and PlayStation, most western developed games were crap IMO.
The amstrad version..OMG. I’ve gone blind. 👀awful
I'll take it a step further Mark. Without Double Dragon there would be no Final Fight. Without that there wouldn't be the Dungeons and Dragons games by Capcom. And without them there wouldn't be the greatest beat em up ever made which is Dragons Crown.
Now Dragons Crown I've never seen. One game I need to check out.
Lynx version is missing mountain level, oil drum and dynamite weapons, so wouldn't be surprised to find a few moves also missing
Ah, that wouldn't surprise me then.
Mark, this one is unlisted?
Also, first.
It should be listed now. Maybe RUclips were a bit slow on getting this one up.
Double Dragon Advance is my favorite, with Xbox 360 coming in second and honorable mentions to SMS and NES. I'd rather have had an enhanced port of DDA for PS4 instead of Double Dragon IV. None of the computer ports are good.