Great video. You are spot on with the Ceasar, that thing is Battletech's version of a hot girl with daddy issues, it looks good and has sexy features but will blow up or fall apart if you take it anywhere
Remember, the Caesar is an updated Cataphract. The main weapons on a Caesar (mounted in the RA and RT) are in the same places as a Cataphract, both of them.
The Charger 3K's LRM 20 is the same case for the Exterminator. On long range maps where even 5/8 takes more than 2 turns to get into brawl range,you use the LRM prior to getting into said brawl range.
Sounds relatively reasonable until you consider that said LRM20 causes the thing to shoot up 400 BV, and costs THIRTEEN TONS. It's a tremendous waste a weapon unfortunately, as it really doesn't do 400BV worth of damage. Despite that it is a personal favorite mech, as fast assaults are some of the most efficient brawlers in the game (16 damage kicks my beloved). If it had an LB10X in the place of the LRM, it would be my main mech.
If you skirmish for a few turns, not close right away, then you can get the ammo out. Also, thunder augmented isn’t too bad. You can use it to funnel the enemies to you.
Always thought the Cyclops was trying to be too much for what it's role was - a massive boost to initiative rolls which is only going to work while the Mech isn't reduced to scrap. Staying the hell away from the vanguard is not encouraged by short ranged punch. 3025 campaign build that held the entire line for like 15 engagements now was to dump the AC20s or even Gauss tier weapons for AC10 or LB10X ideally and sink the rest into armor, and then stand back and blast until your LRM and AC bins are empty. Once empty either effect a retreat, hopefully your lance has actually done its job at that point and the bonuses your provide make your presence worth it for an aggressive match. If you HAVE to wade in, the armor is going to make sure you don't fold like wet cardboard and two medium lasers, srm4, and a 4-6 movement 80 tonner is surprisingly useful at the tail end of a fight's attrition.
I love the idea of post helm mechs. I figured it was like the bloat of the golden star league era where companies were just putting variants out there to see who's going to bite. But now it's during a post war era. Where all houses are scrambling to ramp up after the wars and clans. These factories are just chugging out mechs but with whatever parts are on hand. We're low on lasers.... stick a lrm20 in there. XLs are newer to designers so they aren't thinking of survival but just the firepower it can provide utilizing clan shock and awe tactics. You see better designed mechs as time goes on but the 3050 was like the wild west for designs.
The 3F I've used before - I happened to be playing on a map where every light or heavy forest was 8 hexes away from eachother so it was a menace. Less in terms of damage but more into corralling my opponent into the firing lines I needed to. In hindsight why didn't I consider this one for that D-day tournament? This one would be great for offense
a Ceasar which moved the Gauss rifle to the where the PPC wasn't and pulled a few heatsinks for armor would be a lot better. And if you used endosteel and normal or ER medium lasers you could even not have to use a XL engine
I wholeheartedly agree! The Caesar is designed incredibly poorly. The XL saves like 7 or 8 tons and Endo saves 3.5. Then you have to make up the difference, call it 4 tons, and there's a bunch of ways to do that while simultaneously making the mech suck less. The mech is PACKED full of DHS, and some of them have to go in order to have the crits for the Endo. You won't miss them. Dropping the two rear pulse lasers is 4 tons. (And switching the 4 lasers to normal/ER is also 4 tons, like you say) 4 normal/ ER lasers (pointing forward!) are also a lot more useful to the mech, because of their greater range.
@@TheManyVoicesVA Just took a look again at some of the later variants I never play with, there are some good MML ones! 7W is a nice low-BV line mech for example.
5:40 having only 5 shots with your main weapon is really unfun, even if mechanically it might work out okay. Lotsa games only go 6-10 turns, and that role switch doesn't seem unreasonable in that context. Still would like 2 tons so 1 ton homing and 1 ton aoe at least...
So, I loathe AC/5s outside of "backup" weapons in 3025 but could someone explain how the Ultra AC/5s are bad? I figured being able to pop out more damage and use up that terrible amount of "blow yourself up" ammo makes the Ultra AC/5 less terrible?
I agree with your original rating on the catapult-C3. If you want to take Arrows just pick a vehicle launcher. But if you are in some weird game where artillery is allowed but vehicles aren't then yea it might go up to a B-. 4 medium lasers is hard to get mad at.
I think it is completely unfair to compare the Cicada to the Wraith because they fill two different roles as fast medium mechs. The Wraith requires to be at a minimum of 10 range to be a useful mech, while the Cicada is safely throwing 10dmg down range at 14. It would be nice if it had ER Mediums to better fill that sniping/spotting medium role though. I am biased though because I love me those chicken mechs though and the Wraith just feels like one of those min-maxed mechs someone brings to a "build a fun mech" tournies.
Ah, the Caesar 3R. While TRO: 3050 has a lot of deliberately sub-optimal LosTech refits of Succession Wars era classic Mechs, the compromised design of this Mech is inexcusable. Why this thing (a sniper) needed rear-firing weapons that outclasses an Atlas is a mystery locked in the mind of the FASA writer(s) who conceived it. The side torsos can sustain exactly 30 damage from the front, and when fighting Clan opponents there are any number of ways this can die to targeting computer called shots. Back in the Master Rules era it was even worse when large pulse lasers could make called shots with a TC. All this could have been avoided by downgrading the rear-firing medium pulse lasers to small and adding another two tons of armour. Easy zero to hero move. That said, any Mech with a gauss rifle is a scary prospect, and I hid mine as part of a gauss-PPC gunline for pulping the Clanners at their own game of long ranged combat. Cool video and analysis, thanks :)
It would be nice to have the catapult with the A4 box and all the original ammo but replace the other launcher with a ppc from the K. It'd look ugly as sin, but sin is what you do in war.
Misdesigned mechs like the Caeser get a great break on BV. An expensive walking bomb? Cool let's make up for those shortcomings by deploying more of these garbo machines.
I really enjoy your videos but I do disagree with some of your conclusions. For instance the charger with the lrms is great to safe guard weak fire support units
Ah, the Crab. I want to like it, I _really_ want to like it, but it’s not shaped like a crab. It’s clearly a crayfish or lobster. A prawn, a shrimp even, but not a crab, especially when the other two ‘crab’ Mechs are both properly crab-shaped.
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Great video. You are spot on with the Ceasar, that thing is Battletech's version of a hot girl with daddy issues, it looks good and has sexy features but will blow up or fall apart if you take it anywhere
Well that's a hilarious way of putting it...!
Remember, the Caesar is an updated Cataphract. The main weapons on a Caesar (mounted in the RA and RT) are in the same places as a Cataphract, both of them.
Yeah but if the GR were the arm mounted weapon that'd be way better
Gotta love short range weapons in the legs. Nothing quite like having to decide between shooting and kicking.
The worst part for me is that kicking is right choice 9 times out of 10 but I feel bad wasting a weapon
They would make alot more sense if in rules leg mounted weapons could fire against infantry in the same hex
#crusaderlife
Just like the Hatchetman with those lasers in the same arm as its hatchet.
@@kryptonianguest1903 That's less bad though because hatchets are worse than kicks a lot of the time
Really like these videos! Looking forward to more.
4:28 A kuritan TRO3050 mech with doubles that isn't a Dragon? Wow!
IS mech + XL engine. I guess we fill in the rest of that space with explosive ammo and weapons. Seems legit.
The Charger 3K's LRM 20 is the same case for the Exterminator. On long range maps where even 5/8 takes more than 2 turns to get into brawl range,you use the LRM prior to getting into said brawl range.
Sounds relatively reasonable until you consider that said LRM20 causes the thing to shoot up 400 BV, and costs THIRTEEN TONS. It's a tremendous waste a weapon unfortunately, as it really doesn't do 400BV worth of damage.
Despite that it is a personal favorite mech, as fast assaults are some of the most efficient brawlers in the game (16 damage kicks my beloved). If it had an LB10X in the place of the LRM, it would be my main mech.
If you skirmish for a few turns, not close right away, then you can get the ammo out. Also, thunder augmented isn’t too bad. You can use it to funnel the enemies to you.
Great video! Looking forward to more videos and updates.
Always thought the Cyclops was trying to be too much for what it's role was - a massive boost to initiative rolls which is only going to work while the Mech isn't reduced to scrap. Staying the hell away from the vanguard is not encouraged by short ranged punch. 3025 campaign build that held the entire line for like 15 engagements now was to dump the AC20s or even Gauss tier weapons for AC10 or LB10X ideally and sink the rest into armor, and then stand back and blast until your LRM and AC bins are empty. Once empty either effect a retreat, hopefully your lance has actually done its job at that point and the bonuses your provide make your presence worth it for an aggressive match. If you HAVE to wade in, the armor is going to make sure you don't fold like wet cardboard and two medium lasers, srm4, and a 4-6 movement 80 tonner is surprisingly useful at the tail end of a fight's attrition.
Yeah it needs LRMs or ER larges. If anything.
I quite like the Cyclops CP-11's, particularly the C3 and Command Console versions. Very bv cost effective Gauss Rifle command mech.
I'd probably drop the SRMs on the Cyclops for more armor if not downgrading to an LB10x
Been waiting on this one
Crab people
I love the idea of post helm mechs. I figured it was like the bloat of the golden star league era where companies were just putting variants out there to see who's going to bite. But now it's during a post war era. Where all houses are scrambling to ramp up after the wars and clans. These factories are just chugging out mechs but with whatever parts are on hand. We're low on lasers.... stick a lrm20 in there. XLs are newer to designers so they aren't thinking of survival but just the firepower it can provide utilizing clan shock and awe tactics. You see better designed mechs as time goes on but the 3050 was like the wild west for designs.
It's a fun era from a lore perspective for sure!
The 3F I've used before - I happened to be playing on a map where every light or heavy forest was 8 hexes away from eachother so it was a menace. Less in terms of damage but more into corralling my opponent into the firing lines I needed to.
In hindsight why didn't I consider this one for that D-day tournament? This one would be great for offense
12:27 🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🙂
a Ceasar which moved the Gauss rifle to the where the PPC wasn't and pulled a few heatsinks for armor would be a lot better.
And if you used endosteel and normal or ER medium lasers you could even not have to use a XL engine
I wholeheartedly agree! The Caesar is designed incredibly poorly. The XL saves like 7 or 8 tons and Endo saves 3.5. Then you have to make up the difference, call it 4 tons, and there's a bunch of ways to do that while simultaneously making the mech suck less. The mech is PACKED full of DHS, and some of them have to go in order to have the crits for the Endo. You won't miss them. Dropping the two rear pulse lasers is 4 tons. (And switching the 4 lasers to normal/ER is also 4 tons, like you say)
4 normal/ ER lasers (pointing forward!) are also a lot more useful to the mech, because of their greater range.
Picking which variant of Cataphract you would use is like choosing which knife you wish to be stabbed with.
Love me crab, hate me Caesar. Only good Crusader is the really weird one with nothing but medium lasers on it.
4BR is perhaps the closest thing to a decent Crusader with a "classic" weapons layout
@TrailblazerBT the only good crusader is the Archer 2S. :P
@@TheManyVoicesVA Just took a look again at some of the later variants I never play with, there are some good MML ones! 7W is a nice low-BV line mech for example.
@TrailblazerBT gimme the 6M. Another common FWL win. Pretty solid mech. She's a bit slow, but deceint mid range brawler. Can jump into position.
2:11 extra randomness is rarely something I want in Battletech
5:40 having only 5 shots with your main weapon is really unfun, even if mechanically it might work out okay. Lotsa games only go 6-10 turns, and that role switch doesn't seem unreasonable in that context.
Still would like 2 tons so 1 ton homing and 1 ton aoe at least...
So, I loathe AC/5s outside of "backup" weapons in 3025 but could someone explain how the Ultra AC/5s are bad?
I figured being able to pop out more damage and use up that terrible amount of "blow yourself up" ammo makes the Ultra AC/5 less terrible?
8:00 I'd give it an ER Large and some TSM.
would you consider changing the BV/1 and Bv/2? what would change in points?
I agree with your original rating on the catapult-C3. If you want to take Arrows just pick a vehicle launcher. But if you are in some weird game where artillery is allowed but vehicles aren't then yea it might go up to a B-. 4 medium lasers is hard to get mad at.
Would you cause these C students, at best?
Har har
I think it is completely unfair to compare the Cicada to the Wraith because they fill two different roles as fast medium mechs. The Wraith requires to be at a minimum of 10 range to be a useful mech, while the Cicada is safely throwing 10dmg down range at 14. It would be nice if it had ER Mediums to better fill that sniping/spotting medium role though.
I am biased though because I love me those chicken mechs though and the Wraith just feels like one of those min-maxed mechs someone brings to a "build a fun mech" tournies.
I feel like I must have sounded too down on the CDA-3F, I do really like it
Ah, the Caesar 3R. While TRO: 3050 has a lot of deliberately sub-optimal LosTech refits of Succession Wars era classic Mechs, the compromised design of this Mech is inexcusable. Why this thing (a sniper) needed rear-firing weapons that outclasses an Atlas is a mystery locked in the mind of the FASA writer(s) who conceived it.
The side torsos can sustain exactly 30 damage from the front, and when fighting Clan opponents there are any number of ways this can die to targeting computer called shots. Back in the Master Rules era it was even worse when large pulse lasers could make called shots with a TC.
All this could have been avoided by downgrading the rear-firing medium pulse lasers to small and adding another two tons of armour. Easy zero to hero move. That said, any Mech with a gauss rifle is a scary prospect, and I hid mine as part of a gauss-PPC gunline for pulping the Clanners at their own game of long ranged combat.
Cool video and analysis, thanks :)
Agree ultra AC/5 is hot garbage
I was so disappointed in the Ceasar. It looks so nice. But man is it unimpressive.
It's got a gauss and an er ppc. It's literally a copy of a catafract but longer range. I like it. I also love the catafract.
i wanna know why anyone makes a mechs with xl engine and then give the arms more armor than the torso
Crab suffers from the same problem as Marauders imo , not enough side torso armour
But with nothing there to explode! Makes a big difference
It would be nice to have the catapult with the A4 box and all the original ammo but replace the other launcher with a ppc from the K. It'd look ugly as sin, but sin is what you do in war.
Misdesigned mechs like the Caeser get a great break on BV. An expensive walking bomb? Cool let's make up for those shortcomings by deploying more of these garbo machines.
Agree in general but the Caesar is just too explosive. It would have the same BV if the Gauss were in the arm, then it would be good
Crusader 4L and 4D getting B- grades while the Catapult C3 is getting C-!? I want to speak to a manager.
I really enjoy your videos but I do disagree with some of your conclusions. For instance the charger with the lrms is great to safe guard weak fire support units
Caesar pilots need to sweat more.
-2 DHS + tons armor.
Definitely some unimpressive machines in there!
Ah, the Crab. I want to like it, I _really_ want to like it, but it’s not shaped like a crab. It’s clearly a crayfish or lobster. A prawn, a shrimp even, but not a crab, especially when the other two ‘crab’ Mechs are both properly crab-shaped.
Agree ultra AC/5 is hot garbage