Imagine pinning and hearting a post from a media analyst hack who cannot properly analyze films but rides high on getting attention because she is a cis white straight (?) girl doing that thing that usually cis white straight men do (also usually badly, actually).
My Dad loves this movie, and he introduced it to me when I was very young. I was surprised at how dark it was. There was racism, and talk of sexual assault, and self offing…I was expecting a fun dance movie, and got something MUCH more complex. It blew my mind.
In retrospect it did seem like a fun, upbeat, dance movie about having fun but yeah, watching it now that I am older it definitely is that gross, grimy, and dirty New York of the 70s
Yeah the rape scene is really disturbing because it’s normalised, Tony Monaro sits in the front of the car while a girl is getting raped in the back seat & he doesn’t bat an eyelid, his mind is preoccupied with his own thoughts and what happens to this girl is not even depicted as something wrong, just “boys-being-boys-ha-ha” and you think no wonder there’s a portion of male mentality that view women as nothing but sexual objects, & that was just friggin’ natural female place in the world …. is this movie even good as a whole? I can’t like it because of this scene - but this movie is really pretty shit
Dude, me too. I was 17 and I loved the Bee Gees cause I was a weird kid, lol. I bought this movie on DVD and the rape scene and the racism really turned me off. I watched the DVD once and just sort of let it fade away. Pretty sure my mom threw it out when I moved out, which is fine with me, lol.
What happened to Disco reminds me so much of what has occured to the reggaeton genre in Latin America. It used to be the underground music of poor neighborhoods in the carribean. At one point it was even criminalized in Puerto Rico. Now its one of the most popular genre but its a shadow of its former self with white latines at the forefront.
@@leticiadornelas4555 I was thinking about brazilian funk the entire time during this video! I remember vividly the war against funk, it permeated brazilian internet and social media everywhere you went during the late 2000s to mid 2010s. and it comes as no surprise at all: the ones that promoted the most anti-funk speech and shaming were the rocker kids. anyway, we all know wich one out-lived which...
It's so astounding how you manage to produce so many great quality videos in such a short time period. I think remembering the "Death of Disco" as a not so subtle backlash against queer and black is all too more important in times when we have to fear for our lives just going to the club and the spaces where disco originated. Love your podcast btw. I don't want to fan girl too much, but I hope there will be many future seasons.
The premise in your comments and in this video are that disco died because straight, white males were homophobic and racist, is incorrect. I know this because I was one who fits into the category of a straight white male. My friends and peers were straight white males and many of them hated disco. They didn't hate disco because it came from gay people or from black people, they simply didn't like it! Most of these straight males didn't even know that disco came from gays or blacks, they just knew that they couldn't stand hearing Barry Gibb's falsetto voice anymore or hearing keyboards or an artificial drum track anymore.
Much as I loved it I can appreciate that many people at the time didn’t like disco for its own sake, not because of its associations. In many ways it was an acquired taste but many had no inclination to give it a chance - and there’s nothing wrong with that. I do have to say though that lots of people never really heard how varied disco could be and were only exposed to the mainstream stuff on the radio.
To expand on this: Homophobia in the 70s could be pretty bad, and still is, but it probably was not as widespread as one might think since the majority of straight white males didn’t give gay people much thought one way or the other. Also in urban settings gay men often moved about anonymously - Ironically straight guys wore silky shirts and pastel pants to THEIR discos while gay guys went to theirs in jeans, boots, and green army jackets.
Vaporwave, lofi, and Future Funk also have there roots in disco. The biggest tracks are remixes of Diana Ross, Michael Jackson, and Japanese City Pop that has a lot of disco roots too. Disco will always be cool. Watching clips of Soul Train; I'm still blown away with just how many of those dances are still around to this day. Plus Black Joy. Love to see that 😍 ❤️!
All of dance music is descended from it, house which erupted in the late 80s is very influenced, though Dance also was a product of German electronica, synth pop and new wave
Disco never died, it just went back underground. And lots of spots in North America have been able to authentically recreate the unbridled ecstasy of 70s discotheque. You just had to look for them.
I wouldn't say it even went back underground. They just started calling it dance music. Madonna and Michale Jackson were the two biggest artists of the 80's and they essentially made disco music.
Disco was rebranded as "Dance Music" as the video says. "Say So" by Doja Cat seems like disco as well as some of Lizzo's songs and Daft Punk songs. Disco also led to House music (which is also a part of Dance music). House music led to Jersey Club music (songs with that repetitive but fun sound like "Just Wanna Rock" by Lil Uzi Vert.
The story I'd heard was that when John Travolta got the role, the studio offered to soften the character for him, so as not to hurt his image, and Travolta declined. So they probably didn't use the term "toxic masculinity" at the time, but they were nonetheless aware of what kind of character they were portraying.
@@valfanclub Technically speaking, John was already a TV celebrity at the time of filming thanks to his role in "Welcome Back Kotter." SNF obviously pushed him to a whole other level of fame, but that's hindsight. At the time, nobody knew whether he'd become a movie star, or go back to sitcoms, and if it was the latter, then playing an openly sexist and racist jackhole in a movie might not have been good for his career. According to a VH1 interview, John was flattered that they'd make the character nicer for him, but he told them it wasn't the character he'd signed up to play. He wanted to take on a more complex and challenging role than was offered by 70s era sitcoms.
@@Jaspertineit was a minimal risk at the time. Remember, pre-home video, if a movie bombed, it just got pulled from theaters and would be largely forgotten about for years until it popped up on late night TV or something. And if it’s a hit, you don’t have to worry about keeping him on a sitcom because he’s gone anyway. Also, Travolta had already been in Carrie by that time, playing one of the bully girls’ drunken oversexed boyfriends. I think he just didn’t want to tell the network he was leaving anyway.
No matter what I always love hearing about the history of disco. Maybe because growing up I wasn't fully aware of it's origins. It was always that genre that people seemed to make fun and find cheesy. People would talk about it in a way completely removing it's origins of being deep in black and queer culture and now that it's being talked about so much more I have such a love for the sound, that time and what it's done for the culture.
As someone who has never and will never experience the 1970s, I love hearing about disco. As a kid, disco was a shorthand insult to people/things that are dated and tacky. But growing up, hearing how much US subculture and queer culture are/were part of disco, I am loving that so many writers/journalists are sharing their findings on such a big part of the 1970s. 🥰💕
My name is Richard Dodds l am 65 years old, I was a self taught Disco dancer, love Disco music today, As it started in 1973, With groups like Kc and the Sunshine band Barry white Average white band Wild cherry, And many more bands of the disco area. I was the Tony Manaro ,Of Sioux City Iowa , Back in the 1970,s, I practiced dancing Disco dancing at my apartment, 6 days a week, I went to clubs in Sioux city Iowa, After the Gold Rush ,Grandpa's disco Hilton Disco, The Jockey club, Staircase Disco in Storm Lake Iowa, Also the joker Disco in Omaha Nebraska, Also clubs in Stark'ers club in Kansas city Missouri, In the 1970,s dancing Disco was part of my life, Just to keep in shape today, I dance to this music, To keep my heart strong and mind and in shape. Long live this music forever, Sincerely Richard Dodds, So Sioux City Nebraska,
Funny because the resentment for the superficial hedonism of disco culture happening in a hard economic downturn much in the same way people resent wokeness now
When I read comments made by young people of today expressing themselves about that period, it sounds like regret. Yes, it was fun, it was wild, and it was outlandish. Disco could only have happened in the 1970s. Not the 60s or the 80s. America had a sexual revolution during that period and sex won hands down. We now had freedom and we took advantage of it. Men and women wanted to be together, lusted after each other, and the dance floor was the mating ritual leading up to a night of hedonism for everyone. The whole disco explosion lasted roughly five solid years. Could that kind of freedom take place today in 2023? No. But the dark side did show itself and between drugs and AIDS many people simply disappeared. All things come to an end, but for those who we’re old enough to participate in that come one come all party called the 1970s, it will never be forgotten😊👍🏻
I'm one of those people who would be able to answer what the plot of Saturday Night Fever is, mostly because I watched it when I was (probably) too young to. It's one of my mother's favorite movies and I wanted to see what it was about, and it really surprised me to see how dark it was. I was only expecting it to be a fluffy dance movie when, in reality, it was closer in tone to a character study in the vein of Taxi Driver, as you've said, and I feel that it should be remembered as such. The fact that it's only known for it's glamorous disco aesthetic alone, completely removed of the contents of the movie, makes actually watching it a very dissonant experience for most and it feels a bit unfair to the movie's legacy.
Along with the new Hollywoodness of the film it reminds me of British new wave films - Room at the Top, Saturday Night, Sunday Morning, Billy Liar etc. films about working class young men with dead end jobs trying to navigate the contours of class and masculinity. Nick Kent’s write up seem to basically transposing Arthur Seaton from the 1950s Nottingham pubs and fairgrounds of Saturday Night, Sunday Morning to the Brooklyn disco scene of the 70s
Phenomenal work! If anyone wants to dig a little deeper into this subject I highly recommend the work of Tim Lawrence. "Love Saves the Day" and "Life and Death on the New York Dance Floor" are superbly written accounts of NYC during the 70s and 80s. His podcast with Jeremy Gilbert, "Love is the Message", is also a phenomenal listen if you're at all interested in the intersection of music, politics, economics, and culture at large.
Yes 'love saves the day' is amazing! A really thorough read. Also the documentary 'come as you are' (free on RUclips) about the legacy of the loft and house music is a great one.
"Disco Sucks" was dominated by douchebag, fashion-crippled, cishet white guys who had no rhythm, and couldn't dance. I'm a cishet white guy myself. I started hitting the dance clubs in DC in the late 80s (my late teens), long after the fall of disco, but during the ascendance of what came to be known as EDM. I think back on those days as transformative for me, as it introduced me to people I never would have met in my safe (largely white) bland, suburban neighborhood. I learned so much about how to relate to people who were quite different from me, yet wanting all the same things I wanted: Acceptance, community, love, and a good time. It opened my eyes, allowing me to see the world in a much broader context, and I'm now (at the age of 50) a much better man for it. Just as an aside: I've seen several interviews with the actors who portrayed Tony's friends and the actress who played Annette, talking about that SA scene. I've found it very interesting how actors, when confronted with depicting something so dark and horrific, go about coping with the situation. The actors spoke of how difficult it was to perform that scene, as this sequence was filmed very late in the production, and they had all become very close friends with Donna Pescow (Annette). She actually had to comfort them in between takes, because it was so upsetting for them to be doing this to a young woman that they had grown very fond of, and whom they deeply respected as both a fellow artist and human being. She talked about how one of them started to cry in the middle of a take, and she had to calm him down. It just gutted them. I found that very compelling. Another interesting aside: John Badham (The director of SNF) was under contract to direct the movie adaption of "The Wiz", starring Diana Ross, Michael Jackson, Nipsey Russel, and Lena Horne. However, upon reading the script for "SNF", he wanted to direct it instead. So, in order to get out of his contract, he had to get himself fired from the production of "The Wiz". He accomplished this very adroitly by going to the producers with his "unique vision" for how he would film "The Wiz". Essentially, he wanted all of it to be filmed as a POV shot from Dorothy's perspective. All the audience would see of Diana Ross would be her arms and hands, legs and feet. He was fired immediately, and made his availability to direct "SNF" known to Robert Stigwood. And the rest, as they say, is history.
Thank you sharing about the actors' experience, I always think of the people doing cruel acts on screen and the way they really feel. Also, I love your description of discovering community through the music!!
@@magical-soap5359 No problem, happy to share. I formed friendships in what had come to be called, by the 90s, The Club-Kid Scene (mostly out of New York, yet quickly extended far beyond) that have endured to this very day. Two of my closest friends, Greg and Terry, just celebrated their 17th wedding anniversary on Dec. 20th (We all still marvel over how those two fellas decided to up and get married so close to Christmas, 2005...lol). They, along with several others, are among the most rewarding friendships I have in my life. Men and women whom I love like family, and I am so fortunate that they regard me as their family. Greatest compliment I ever got from anyone that didn't involve my writing: "For a straight white boy, you sure can dance."
Or that working class people resented the hedonistic elitists during the worst times in economic history . Maybe it might make you feel less guilty about the deindustrialization of blue collar people who couldn’t partake in coke snorting and anal sex
Actors usually say that any kind of intimate scene is difficult and embarrassing to perform. I also heard that in Death Wish 2, some of the male actors were so upset about an assault scene that they threw up.
i'm brazilian and i find my experience in clubs very insteresting. as a woman, i never felt comfortable and safe at what i call "straight parties", because the gender performance was so strict and i was harassed all the time, i just couldn't let loose and have fun. is like guys were not able to do it, so they wouldn't let women do it lol. so i always hung out at lgbt parties, i always felt more safe, accepted and the songs were much better. but when i started clubbing, i noticed that some of the straight guys my age were going to lgbt clubs to get the "good girls" (whatever that means), so they had to coexist with lgbt people and even get harassed by them - i also noticed that those guys were more open to be lgbt friendly and also experiment with their sexuality as well. so maybe things are getting better?
Understandable! I’m bi so am a member of the community, but I’ve always felt safer and just free to have fun in LGBT+ spaces over “straight” bars etc. visiting my first gay club was such a moment for me. I didn’t feel like I was being peeves on constantly.
This video couldn't have come at a better time. I only just watched this film for the first time, on Christmas day no less, because my family and I thought it would be a fun disco film. Needless to say I was quite shocked and confused. I wasn't sure how much I had a misunderstanding of disco culture or whether the film wanted me to find it ironic that someone who hates latinos and black people and gays would love disco. I also had that classic issue of watching an old film and not being sure what of Tony and his friend's behaviour I was meant to find off-putting. It was obvious that the film was meant to show Tony's disillusionment with what he once considered to be the most important of status symbols (winning dance competitions, winning fights with latinos, and having sex with as many women as possible). Yet there was something about the whole affair that made it stick in my throat slightly...
@willowsilver1284 Congratulations. You watched an actual film with characters portraying real life people who are complex- both good and bad - like YOU and me. It's called Realism.
I may be a metalhead to the core, but I can still get down to some classic disco or funk. There's just something alluring about losing yourself to the beat and vibing out. Sometimes you need to balance out the angst with some boogie. And it will never get old watching KISS trying do dance music, lol.
Great video and a take on SNF i never thought about, but extremely compelling. My mom is a huge Travolta fan so I grew up watching this movie (along with the Stayin' Alive sequel) and as far as I'm concerned, Annette's rape scene has Always been a massive trauma for me, to the point where i can't bring myself to watching the film. So thanks for the insight, i really appreciated it!
I just watched Saturday Night Fever a few months ago for the first time and am still absolutely in love with it. It's a fun, exuberant but also tough, dark film about a young man learning that he has to get his shit together. Let's say I highly related to that and needed it.
@@ilibanawell, as unpleasant as it is, that is what the reality is like. Young men simply don't care. Or very little. Underground scenes for all their shine are brutal.
You highly relate to a man who shamed the woman for being assaulted? It’s fascinating how straight men like you refuse to care for anyone else, while completely missing the point of this video.
Hands down, this is one of the best docs about "SNF" (and the disco movement) that I've watched on YT. Another great "character study" film to see (obliviously influenced by "SNF") is called "Tony Manero". It's set in war torn South America in the late 70's and focuses on a middle aged sociopathic male who's obsessed with the "SNF" film. There's a televised dance contest that he wants to enter and it shows the brutal path he takes to get there. Thank you for posting your fantastic video.
Fantastic video. I was 13 when Saturday Night Fever came out, and my mom took us to see it (though she was upset with the violence of it) I loved disco dancing and recall practicing The Hustle and The Bump in the girls locker room with other kids. There was definitely a factor of the rock kids coming down hard on disco, but there was also a factor of the popular kids (who weren’t the dedicated hard rock kids, they were considered “burnouts”) turning disco into their own power play (who had the most expensive gold jewelry or Quiana shirt). It became over-saturated and commercial, with one disco radio station in San Francisco airing an especially cringey ad featuring wacky grandparents gyrating on the dance floor. At some point the average person “moved on”. Thankfully there has been a strong movement to reclaim what disco signified to begin with.
as someone whos obsessed with disco and its countercultural roots, i couldnt be more overjoyed by seeing you make such a great video discussing these topics
It didn’t this is woke historical revisionism. Working class the people of the 1970s resented the superficial hedonism of urban nightlife that they were excluded from because of class. This historical revision of disco is just so upper middle class hedonist can feel less guilty about what factory workers had to go through while they did coke and had anal sex
I watched this movie with my mom a while ago. She has a habit of forgetting the tone of movies and I always end up watching something more upsetting than I signed up for. This was her pick one night I was pretty annoyed bc I wanted to watch a fun dance movie but it was really interesting since I’d never seen that side of disco.
So my homeroom music teacher took a handful of us girls out to see Saturday Night Fever when it first came out. I was in my mid teens and boy it changed my life. I was not going to be Annette. I was going to be Stephanie. Disco still lives in my heart, kinda like a dead relative you reach out to during difficult times.
It is funny to me that just about everything said about Disco also applies to Punk Rock in London, NYC, LA, SF [and maybe Sydney/Melbourne but I don't know enough about those scenes culturally to say for sure] in the same time period... it was a haven for LBGTQ and minorities (largely Lantinx, Asian, and mixed race people) , a lot of women were involved, it scared the straights, it was largely co opted by toxic maleness in the early 80s or repackaged and sold as 'New Wave' to the yippies, it was on the surface as much about image/fashion as the music, the clubs are legendary, drugs and AIDS decimated the 1st generation of the scene early embrace of Rap/Hip Hop, notable dance styles the music was attacked by critics as 'not music' and for being 'basic'
😂, ok, So Ramones, Sex Pistols and the Clash were LGBTQ and minorities! Lol, dude you cant rewrite history because you want to stuff your woke ideology into everything that ever existed! Some of us were actually there so your post is ridiculous.
I remember thinking it was going to be a fun musical. All I ever heard about was the white suit, the dancing and the music. Instead it was very bleak, and what happened to Annette killed the whole movie for me. It made me cry. I don’t mind gritty dramas, but I felt violated and totally duped.
This movie really frustrated me when I watched it for the first time recently. I was expecting a fun dance movie, but, while the dancing is pretty spectacular, it's far from a fun movie. I still have complicated feelings on it, but I appreciate the points and perspective you have and make on it. It's definitely a fascinating modern watch, especially as a fan of disco derived music.
this video came at the perfect time because we're in a space where society is trying to cope with the pandemic via dance parties, dance music and even beyonce's renaissance album making references to this time period
R&B/soul never really died. Many bands that thrived on disco eventually moved on to post-disco experimentation post-1979, going on to carve a smaller yet still successful subset of pop culture in the 1980s with the emergence of contemporary R&B as a punchier, updated spiritual successor to disco. It continues to carry the banner alongside house music and hip-hop music.
I understand what disco movement is about. I also use dance music (trance) for escapism. Nothing else works better for me to release the tension than going to a music festival with friends. I even visited few countries because I wanted to go to festivals there. Always an adventure, always positive emotions. It's like a therapy
The word "disco" in Swedish morphed to mean any nightclub where you'd dance, so over here you had young, hip people saying they were going to "a disco" long after the music genre had died out. Back when I used to go out drinking in the late 90s/early 2000s you either went to a bar or "a disco", though IIIRC some people were starting to use the word "nattklubb" (nightclub) instead by then, so maybe younger Swedes won't recognize this at all.
It might be the same in germany too... I think my parents still say disco (even though they were both born in the late 70s, so obviously did not see much of disco in its prime), but anybody my age says 'club'
Discothèque or disco for short, gave its name to the movement. A disco is a place were records are spun and people dance to them, although it has now been replace by" club".
Just like Discothèque gave its name to the Disco movement, now Club is giving its name to Jersey Club music (with songs like "Just Wanna Rock" by Lil Uzi Vert and Boy's a Liar Pt. 2 by PinkPantheress and Ice Spice). I find it interesting how music changes and evolves. Jersey Club music takes inspiration from House which takes Inspiration from Disco.
I love Saturday Night Fever. My wife and I always dance to whatever Fever song at every wedding reception. It's all good as long as NO ONE HITS MY HAIR!
I got autoplayed into a fan-made music video for Stayin' Alive one time, and I was shocked. It couldn't convey the full depths of the depravity but it made me realise how messed up it is! I was really excited to watch this just so I'd know more about it. This kind of nuanced appreciation is informative and needed.
The one thing I really love about ABBA, despite its whitewashing of the genre, is that they really branched out. Their disco tracks are actually my least favorite. They wrote so many wacky songs in their first albums and than Bjorn and Benny became extremely contemplative in their last album “The Visitors”. But even though their interpretation of disco lost some of the core soul, they were still very good tracks, especially “Voulez-vous”. It’s hard to rectify that sometimes when I know it’s really not what disco was meant to be. Can you tell I was indoctrinated on disco?
Abba? You mean those toothless harbingers of pretty much everything wrong with so much pop music since? Those obnoxious precursors to the scourge that is eurodance?
Travolta said disco had basically been over two years before they made the movie…he searched salvation army’s for the disco clothes because the normal department or boutique stores no longer sold them
@@jab1289 what you wrote or texted may be true…I was just remembering what travolta said on his PBS interview…it’s like punk rock everyone speaks from their own perspective, I do not know anything but this… disco music was great, thanks for the info
I really adore this movie, as it showed the darker side of the disco era, and how Tony eventually realises how shallow and pointless that whole lifestyle is. It's extremely bleak, compared to the more lighthearted "Grease."
Original Grease was a lot grittier too there’s a video on the drama dorks channel called “the sanitisation of grease” I found it really interesting check it out :)
Very interesting and thoughtful documentary. I was born in the late 60s and so the 70s was very much part of my early childhood and resonated with me a lot. I never really found the Bee Gees etc sterile as such (You Should Be Dancing is incredible record with a lot of uniqueness) although there were a lot of terrible disco records around in that era. When I was in my early 20s I discovered Salsoul LPs which were an important element of early disco and that was very much a mixed bag, also a lot of discofied jazz funk... like you alluded to I think a big part of the early disco movement was not the music itself but the event and what DJs did with the material. I'm intrigued that I've not really come across a satisfactory answer to what was the first disco record...
Disco, as in the music genre, never died. It just became mainstream pop by the early 80s. Modern pop music today is still basically disco. Madonna, Britney, Beyonce...it's all basically disco just with different production techniques. The clubs themselves were replaced by dance clubs. Even some traditionally rock based clubs have moved towards having a DJ that plays music designed to be danced to. Now, not liking disco makes you the outsider...like me lol. I'm a queer person who just so happens to not enjoy throbbing bass lines and finds that kind of music either uninteresting or irritating.
Great video, loved it ! I don't have much attachement to Saturday Night Fever, but I am tirelessly in love with Disco. But a few of points you brought up in the video I happen to have read similar points to them in a fantastic book called "Turn The Beat Around: The Rise And Fall Of Disco" by Peter Shapiro. It's a book that is mostly focused on Disco and its unknown history. Mind you, he is very vocal about his taste, but clearly passionate. If anyone here wants to learn more in depth about Disco, this book is a great start, and a great companion piece to this video.
A sequel to this film, called "Staying Alive," came out in the early 80s, still starred Travolta as Tony Manero but was directed by Sylvester Stallone, of all people! It follows Tony as he attempts a career as a Broadway dancer while treating every woman in his life (minus his mother) like trash. There's a scene where Tony is visiting his mom in Brooklyn, passes by the 2001 Odyssey he used to frequent - and finds it is now a gay club. Kinda poetic considering where the movement came from.
I can't say that I'm an ardent admirer of this film, but even if it's not one of my all-time favorites, I do understand its iconic importance, especially since I LOVE disco. As one who grew up listening and dancing to disco in my teenage years through the mid-90's to mid-2000's - I used to listen to Blondie, Donna Summers, ABBA, KC and the Sunshine Band, and the Bee Gees a lot starting in my mom's car on long drives; I even still have the Pure Disco CD collection that I played to death blasting at high volume through my headphones - not to mention that I actually took dancing lessons during my pre-teens, I can still feel its spiritual power thrive as it's been conferred to new generations, even if it's been occasionally distorted for use in DJ mixes at night clubs like here in Asheville - which has a distinct 70's vibe of its own - that I have regularly frequented. Maybe it's also the fact that I was born in the mid-80's shortly after the initial disco craze died. As I grew up learning about the music from the previous era while the new millennium was about to and just beginning, I really felt sad that I had been born after that period and missed all of it - the counterculture, the New Freedom in cinema following the collapse of censorship, the revolt against conservative values, etc. - and while it may have not been all wine and roses, I still try to get the same feeling that those people had who actually lived during those times and danced in those clubs and felt that there was no way that this could end before it did in the 80's. I highly doubt that anyone today and in the distant future will ever be able to revive the exact 70's scene and live it as our parents and grandparents did, but at least we still have the music.
Disco only died after 1979 on the hot 100 and pop radio. It was still huge in underground communities and on the dance club charts and was renamed to post disco (or sometimes boogie) and gave birth to house music in Chicago
Hmmm not Chicago. It was in New York. Frankie Knuckles slowed the best down, but kept the 4 on the floor so the breakers could b-boy to it. It just wasn’t called house until Frankie loved to Chicago and worked at The Warehouse; hence House Music. I’m NY, rap was king during this time, but Chicago kept the house going and became home. But, make no mistake, it started in NY. You can go to a Philadelphia’s own (my hometown) First Choice and listen to “Let No Man Put Asunder”, and house is all through it, and that was in early 80’s. However, yes, Chicago IS house!!!!
I love this video, thanks so much for producing it! One thing to note additionally: the popularity of Saturday Night Fever was boosted even more when the producers made a PG-13 cut in 1978. The "grit" of the original version was heavily sanitized, perhaps giving an even less genuine portrayal of what the disco scene really was.
I remeber being at a bar in a touristy European city that didnt see a lot of Americans. The bartender told me that it used to be so hard for them to pick a good playlist "we get people from all over and all ages so now we just play disco because everybody loves disco". He said it so matter of factly too. It hit me then: Americans hate disco because they lack the capacity...it's all the coca cola and protestantism...makes them terrible dancers.
My problem with Disco (as well as Grunge at beginning of 90's and currently Reggeton in Latin America) is that each of these genres of Musica seemed to completely supplant all other forms of music and pushed them completely off the radio in their respective times .... I'm not a country music fan, but country and rock seemed to coexistence at the same time , many times even on the same station .... you can't even listen to a Latin radio station currently that plays Regetton and hear anything else .... its sad
Very interesting essay. I lived during the seventies as a child and a per-adolescent, and I lived all the Hype of Disco. I still have all my Disco record 46 years later. It was a walk down memory lane too watch this video. I remember my older brother enthralled by the image of Tony Manero, and I dare to say that he modeled his persona influenced by that character. I remember seeing him going out at night with his buddies to the disco wearing his white suit. Disco and this movie were so influential in so many ways. I listen to any of the songs of the era and feel transported to that happy time. Yes, I lived it from the perspective of a young kid, but the influence of Disco was so great that it infused the life of young kids, too. I remember that a weekly show in Venezuela created a contest called "The Mini John Travolta" where kids dressed like Tony Manero danced like he did in the picture. That show, as far as I can remember, ran for months.
I do feel that it is a little ahistorical to refer to 'I feel love' vocal delivery as a hallmark of authentic disco and then later make reference to Moroder and eurodsico as representing disco's movement away from it's soulful roots, when they are one and the same, as Moroder produced it. Early disco tended to have much stronger vocal performances than Ms Summer was capable of, and I say this as a fan of hers. If Noah Polyphonic wanted to make a case for this, her song 'Love to love you baby' would have been a better example as it came out some time earlier. Excellent video though!!
I'm a Disco Dance teacher. This dance style is still alive in Europe thanks to competition organized by IDO. It changed a lot in 40 years but the spirit is still there!
I was born a year before Saturday Night Fever came out. Growing up and still today, its music continues to be popular in my country, but many people talk about the movie as something cheesy from that time. I watched it for the first time when I was 20 years old, and I was stunned!!! It's a shame people misjudge this movie. Thank you for such a great video. I learned a great deal and my love of Saturday Night Fever increased even if it was based on a lie. There's a lot to appreciate in it as a piece of art. And in Disco music too!!!
Cheesy? No. But that's what those who don't look below the surface think. Fortunately, you recognize and appreciate this film's many layers and messages.
Omg Broey!!! I am giddy with how much I enjoyed that!! Fav video of the year, by any creater!! Also, feeling super validated for my love of disco!! Lol
Manhattan Skyline is my favorite track from Saturday Night Fever. It has the lush strings and driving beat Polyphonic mentioned. I was 16 when the movie came out. My parents took me to see the PG cut of it which was still icky on so many levels. I grew up with Funk which I still like better than disco and I still like disco alot.
Disco music never died it just evolved. Coming largely from Funk, Soul & Synth Pop. It morphed directly into the Chicago, Balearic & Acid 'House' movements in the late 80's and branched out into Hip Hop, Commercial Motown, Urban, RnB, Ragga and Dancehall in Jamaica and countless other genres and ultimately became what is now known as EDM, and Rave in its many forms.... Disco is possibly the single most influential genre of popular music ever to have been developed. Disco came about largely as a result of three separate and seminal events. The development of 'four to the floor' disco beat by Earl Young in 1973. The release of Autobahn by Kraftwerk in 1974 & the work done by the 'Father of Disco', Giorgio Moroder from 1975. All of which allowed, and inspired the creation very danceable hits, and longer 12" single remixes for the warehouse parties in Chicago, and the clubs like Studio 54, Loft, and ghetto Block parties in New York; the 70's Northern Soul clubs in the UK and many more across the USA and worldwide. The Bee Gees, and SNF were just jumping on the mainstream bandwagon, that helped popularize it as a Global craze. So yes there was a mainstream movement, in the late 70's, and a significant gay and to a far lesser extent trans component, which together with the rise of empowered Afro Caribbean/ Afro American female singers was a thing. But there was also a lot of racism, and homophobia at play. Much like the wider world back then. All that having been said, most of the heavy lifting in the development of Disco, and its descendants was done by heterosexual male musicians, club owners, promoters and producers, as singers like Gloria Gaynor, and Donna Summer would be the first to confirm. Any other interpretation of the history, is retroactively imposing the values and mores of today on to it. Which was definitely not a thing back then.
Thanks Broey! As someone who's rewatching The Get Down on Netflix, watched SNF in my early twenties because it's A Film To Watch™️ and got whiplashed, and heard of "Disco Demolition Night" through the podcast You're Wrong About, it was a great way to understand the context. Off topic but will we see you back at The Mothership at some point ?
thank you for this history, and as a dancer, I have now more stories to tell. Few things not told in this short documentary about Saturdat Night Fever: 1. John has one substitute.........where he compares the new boots with his own. That person is a substitute. 2. The original music used in first place, they did no have the rights to, hence they contacted Bee Gees. Also, in some places, they dancers are out of sync with the music and this might be due to it is another song, they actually dance to, as said in the movie, Bee Gees music was later dubbed. 3. The crew and cast had their problems with the MOB I vividly remember, when saw this movie in Copenhagen, Denmark. That began my dancing career as a professional dancer. Still dancing at 60.
This was one of my favorite movies as a kid. When I watched it again in my 20’s I couldn’t believe how racist it is. Thank you for this wonderful breakdown. Im going to watch it again.
Amazing video, watched it yesterday and keep catching myself replaying ideas from it and daydreaming about disco. Never seen the movie but a huge fan of disco. Fascinating history!
Your commentary really makes me want to revisit Saturday Night Fever. When I watched it a few years back, I took it at face value and thought Tony and his friends were massive jerks for their behavior and declared the movie to be terrible. After all, why would I watch a movie about awful people? But after breaking it down the way you did, I kind of want to watch it again to see what I missed.
holy shit this is so insightfull so good i mean ive been thinking about this film and reading about disco a bunch but this video still revolutionized my understanding of disco and of saturday night fever thank you
Very late to the comments and I was born just after disco ended. One theory I heard about the mainstreaming of disco, which is plausible, was that a lot of the older record executives, read people alive during the big band era, liked disco because it kind of reminded them of that era in terms of how polished it could be and that it was dance music compared to most rock during the 70s.
Excellent video! One thing though -- the Verrazano bridge doesn't go to Manhattan, it goes to Staten Island, which is even farther away from the city. When he rides the train into the city, he takes the R which goes underwater. There is no bridge from Bay Ridge into Manhattan.
I forgot to mention it helps me when I go to Philadelphia, PA and this music goes with me there. It is my favourite city and because of Saturday Night Fever I became a Paramount Pictures insider since I called the Paramount Studios and bought a lot of their stuff.
Brilliant take on the topic. But one interesting aspect to me was that in many ways, the blue print for Saturday night fever is very much the Northern Soul scene. The working class, white male dominated dance floor with soundtrack from black artists is very reminiscent of it and knowing the book that inspired the film was written by a British writer inspired by Brit subculture makes perfect sense!
"Disco is NOT Dead! Disco is ALIVE!" - Eddie Izzard, Mystery Men
Disco is LIFE!
Still one of my favourite characters from any movie tbh
amazing movie
Imagine pinning and hearting a post from a media analyst hack who cannot properly analyze films but rides high on getting attention because she is a cis white straight (?) girl doing that thing that usually cis white straight men do (also usually badly, actually).
He’s right “disco is LIFE” is the line as I recall it
My Dad loves this movie, and he introduced it to me when I was very young. I was surprised at how dark it was. There was racism, and talk of sexual assault, and self offing…I was expecting a fun dance movie, and got something MUCH more complex. It blew my mind.
In retrospect it did seem like a fun, upbeat, dance movie about having fun but yeah, watching it now that I am older it definitely is that gross, grimy, and dirty New York of the 70s
And actual sexual assault. And racist physical attacks.
so you were expecting a forgettable elvis movie.
Yeah the rape scene is really disturbing because it’s normalised, Tony Monaro sits in the front of the car while a girl is getting raped in the back seat & he doesn’t bat an eyelid, his mind is preoccupied with his own thoughts and what happens to this girl is not even depicted as something wrong, just “boys-being-boys-ha-ha” and you think no wonder there’s a portion of male mentality that view women as nothing but sexual objects, & that was just friggin’ natural female place in the world …. is this movie even good as a whole? I can’t like it because of this scene - but this movie is really pretty shit
Dude, me too. I was 17 and I loved the Bee Gees cause I was a weird kid, lol. I bought this movie on DVD and the rape scene and the racism really turned me off. I watched the DVD once and just sort of let it fade away. Pretty sure my mom threw it out when I moved out, which is fine with me, lol.
What happened to Disco reminds me so much of what has occured to the reggaeton genre in Latin America. It used to be the underground music of poor neighborhoods in the carribean. At one point it was even criminalized in Puerto Rico. Now its one of the most popular genre but its a shadow of its former self with white latines at the forefront.
mainstream brazilian funk is going through a similar route, too!
That's very interesting! Your comment has motivated me to learn about reggaeton. Much of Balkans pop music borrows heavily from that genre.
@@leticiadornelas4555 I was thinking about brazilian funk the entire time during this video! I remember vividly the war against funk, it permeated brazilian internet and social media everywhere you went during the late 2000s to mid 2010s. and it comes as no surprise at all: the ones that promoted the most anti-funk speech and shaming were the rocker kids. anyway, we all know wich one out-lived which...
yes, 100%
Thank you for this info.
It's so astounding how you manage to produce so many great quality videos in such a short time period. I think remembering the "Death of Disco" as a not so subtle backlash against queer and black is all too more important in times when we have to fear for our lives just going to the club and the spaces where disco originated. Love your podcast btw. I don't want to fan girl too much, but I hope there will be many future seasons.
The premise in your comments and in this video are that disco died because straight, white males were homophobic and racist, is incorrect. I know this because I was one who fits into the category of a straight white male. My friends and peers were straight white males and many of them hated disco. They didn't hate disco because it came from gay people or from black people, they simply didn't like it! Most of these straight males didn't even know that disco came from gays or blacks, they just knew that they couldn't stand hearing Barry Gibb's falsetto voice anymore or hearing keyboards or an artificial drum track anymore.
Much as I loved it I can appreciate that many people at the time didn’t like disco for its own sake, not because of its associations. In many ways it was an acquired taste but many had no inclination to give it a chance - and there’s nothing wrong with that. I do have to say though that lots of people never really heard how varied disco could be and were only exposed to the mainstream stuff on the radio.
To expand on this: Homophobia in the 70s could be pretty bad, and still is, but it probably was not as widespread as one might think since the majority of straight white males didn’t give gay people much thought one way or the other. Also in urban settings gay men often moved about anonymously - Ironically straight guys wore silky shirts and pastel pants to THEIR discos while gay guys went to theirs in jeans, boots, and green army jackets.
Vaporwave, lofi, and Future Funk also have there roots in disco. The biggest tracks are remixes of Diana Ross, Michael Jackson, and Japanese City Pop that has a lot of disco roots too. Disco will always be cool. Watching clips of Soul Train; I'm still blown away with just how many of those dances are still around to this day. Plus Black Joy. Love to see that 😍 ❤️!
I love Dana Ross :P
You misspelled Diana.
@@lowwastehighmelanin Thank you for bringing this up. I have dyslexia so it helps me out with my grammer ngl.
All of dance music is descended from it, house which erupted in the late 80s is very influenced, though Dance also was a product of German electronica, synth pop and new wave
Love these genres so it tracks
Disco never died, it just went back underground.
And lots of spots in North America have been able to authentically recreate the unbridled ecstasy of 70s discotheque. You just had to look for them.
Some believe Disco opened the doors for House music
I wouldn't say it even went back underground. They just started calling it dance music. Madonna and Michale Jackson were the two biggest artists of the 80's and they essentially made disco music.
@@errolthomas9426 isn't that a fact?
I don’t know it definitely has it’s influence on modern music but it’s more became several different genres and pure disco no longer exists
Disco was rebranded as "Dance Music" as the video says. "Say So" by Doja Cat seems like disco as well as some of Lizzo's songs and Daft Punk songs. Disco also led to House music (which is also a part of Dance music). House music led to Jersey Club music (songs with that repetitive but fun sound like "Just Wanna Rock" by Lil Uzi Vert.
The story I'd heard was that when John Travolta got the role, the studio offered to soften the character for him, so as not to hurt his image, and Travolta declined. So they probably didn't use the term "toxic masculinity" at the time, but they were nonetheless aware of what kind of character they were portraying.
Hurt his image? Doubtful, he was a nobody. SNF is the movie that made him.
@@valfanclub Technically speaking, John was already a TV celebrity at the time of filming thanks to his role in "Welcome Back Kotter." SNF obviously pushed him to a whole other level of fame, but that's hindsight.
At the time, nobody knew whether he'd become a movie star, or go back to sitcoms, and if it was the latter, then playing an openly sexist and racist jackhole in a movie might not have been good for his career.
According to a VH1 interview, John was flattered that they'd make the character nicer for him, but he told them it wasn't the character he'd signed up to play. He wanted to take on a more complex and challenging role than was offered by 70s era sitcoms.
@@Jaspertine as a European, I'd never seen him nor heard of his pre SNF work so thanks for sharing this insight. Obviously, he made the right choice.
@@Jaspertineit was a minimal risk at the time. Remember, pre-home video, if a movie bombed, it just got pulled from theaters and would be largely forgotten about for years until it popped up on late night TV or something. And if it’s a hit, you don’t have to worry about keeping him on a sitcom because he’s gone anyway. Also, Travolta had already been in Carrie by that time, playing one of the bully girls’ drunken oversexed boyfriends. I think he just didn’t want to tell the network he was leaving anyway.
@@valfanclubhe did the boy in the plastic bubble he did carrie .staying alive .grease lots more
No matter what I always love hearing about the history of disco. Maybe because growing up I wasn't fully aware of it's origins. It was always that genre that people seemed to make fun and find cheesy. People would talk about it in a way completely removing it's origins of being deep in black and queer culture and now that it's being talked about so much more I have such a love for the sound, that time and what it's done for the culture.
As someone who has never and will never experience the 1970s, I love hearing about disco. As a kid, disco was a shorthand insult to people/things that are dated and tacky. But growing up, hearing how much US subculture and queer culture are/were part of disco, I am loving that so many writers/journalists are sharing their findings on such a big part of the 1970s. 🥰💕
My name is Richard Dodds l am 65 years old, I was a self taught Disco dancer, love Disco music today, As it started in 1973, With groups like Kc and the Sunshine band Barry white Average white band Wild cherry, And many more bands of the disco area. I was the Tony Manaro ,Of Sioux City Iowa , Back in the 1970,s, I practiced dancing Disco dancing at my apartment, 6 days a week, I went to clubs in Sioux city Iowa, After the Gold Rush ,Grandpa's disco Hilton Disco, The Jockey club, Staircase Disco in Storm Lake Iowa, Also the joker Disco in Omaha Nebraska, Also clubs in Stark'ers club in Kansas city Missouri, In the 1970,s dancing Disco was part of my life, Just to keep in shape today, I dance to this music, To keep my heart strong and mind and in shape. Long live this music forever, Sincerely Richard Dodds, So Sioux City Nebraska,
Funny because the resentment for the superficial hedonism of disco culture happening in a hard economic downturn much in the same way people resent wokeness now
When I read comments made by young people of today expressing themselves about that period, it sounds like regret. Yes, it was fun, it was wild, and it was outlandish. Disco could only have happened in the 1970s. Not the 60s or the 80s. America had a sexual revolution during that period and sex won hands down. We now had freedom and we took advantage of it. Men and women wanted to be together, lusted after each other, and the dance floor was the mating ritual leading up to a night of hedonism for everyone. The whole disco explosion lasted roughly five solid years. Could that kind of freedom take place today in 2023? No. But the dark side did show itself and between drugs and AIDS many people simply disappeared. All things come to an end, but for those who we’re old enough to participate in that come one come all party called the 1970s, it will never be forgotten😊👍🏻
@@mariogiresi6792 Basically your age group had so much indiscriminate sex that you created or at least spread the Aids virus
I'm one of those people who would be able to answer what the plot of Saturday Night Fever is, mostly because I watched it when I was (probably) too young to. It's one of my mother's favorite movies and I wanted to see what it was about, and it really surprised me to see how dark it was. I was only expecting it to be a fluffy dance movie when, in reality, it was closer in tone to a character study in the vein of Taxi Driver, as you've said, and I feel that it should be remembered as such. The fact that it's only known for it's glamorous disco aesthetic alone, completely removed of the contents of the movie, makes actually watching it a very dissonant experience for most and it feels a bit unfair to the movie's legacy.
It also tonally felt to me like the Deer Hunter
Along with the new Hollywoodness of the film it reminds me of British new wave films - Room at the Top, Saturday Night, Sunday Morning, Billy Liar etc. films about working class young men with dead end jobs trying to navigate the contours of class and masculinity.
Nick Kent’s write up seem to basically transposing Arthur Seaton from the 1950s Nottingham pubs and fairgrounds of Saturday Night, Sunday Morning to the Brooklyn disco scene of the 70s
Phenomenal work! If anyone wants to dig a little deeper into this subject I highly recommend the work of Tim Lawrence. "Love Saves the Day" and "Life and Death on the New York Dance Floor" are superbly written accounts of NYC during the 70s and 80s. His podcast with Jeremy Gilbert, "Love is the Message", is also a phenomenal listen if you're at all interested in the intersection of music, politics, economics, and culture at large.
Thanks for the references 💖
Yes 'love saves the day' is amazing! A really thorough read. Also the documentary 'come as you are' (free on RUclips) about the legacy of the loft and house music is a great one.
Currently reading Life and Death on the New York Dance Floor. Also recommend Love Goes To Buildings On Fire to look at some of the origins for Disco.
"Disco Sucks" was dominated by douchebag, fashion-crippled, cishet white guys who had no rhythm, and couldn't dance.
I'm a cishet white guy myself. I started hitting the dance clubs in DC in the late 80s (my late teens), long after the fall of disco, but during the ascendance of what came to be known as EDM. I think back on those days as transformative for me, as it introduced me to people I never would have met in my safe (largely white) bland, suburban neighborhood. I learned so much about how to relate to people who were quite different from me, yet wanting all the same things I wanted: Acceptance, community, love, and a good time. It opened my eyes, allowing me to see the world in a much broader context, and I'm now (at the age of 50) a much better man for it.
Just as an aside: I've seen several interviews with the actors who portrayed Tony's friends and the actress who played Annette, talking about that SA scene. I've found it very interesting how actors, when confronted with depicting something so dark and horrific, go about coping with the situation. The actors spoke of how difficult it was to perform that scene, as this sequence was filmed very late in the production, and they had all become very close friends with Donna Pescow (Annette). She actually had to comfort them in between takes, because it was so upsetting for them to be doing this to a young woman that they had grown very fond of, and whom they deeply respected as both a fellow artist and human being. She talked about how one of them started to cry in the middle of a take, and she had to calm him down. It just gutted them. I found that very compelling.
Another interesting aside: John Badham (The director of SNF) was under contract to direct the movie adaption of "The Wiz", starring Diana Ross, Michael Jackson, Nipsey Russel, and Lena Horne. However, upon reading the script for "SNF", he wanted to direct it instead. So, in order to get out of his contract, he had to get himself fired from the production of "The Wiz". He accomplished this very adroitly by going to the producers with his "unique vision" for how he would film "The Wiz". Essentially, he wanted all of it to be filmed as a POV shot from Dorothy's perspective. All the audience would see of Diana Ross would be her arms and hands, legs and feet. He was fired immediately, and made his availability to direct "SNF" known to Robert Stigwood. And the rest, as they say, is history.
Thank you sharing about the actors' experience, I always think of the people doing cruel acts on screen and the way they really feel. Also, I love your description of discovering community through the music!!
@@magical-soap5359 No problem, happy to share. I formed friendships in what had come to be called, by the 90s, The Club-Kid Scene (mostly out of New York, yet quickly extended far beyond) that have endured to this very day. Two of my closest friends, Greg and Terry, just celebrated their 17th wedding anniversary on Dec. 20th (We all still marvel over how those two fellas decided to up and get married so close to Christmas, 2005...lol). They, along with several others, are among the most rewarding friendships I have in my life. Men and women whom I love like family, and I am so fortunate that they regard me as their family.
Greatest compliment I ever got from anyone that didn't involve my writing: "For a straight white boy, you sure can dance."
Speaking of bland- “Sisko Ducks” is well deserved, although- yes, there are a few disco tunes that aren’t absolutely vapid.
Or that working class people resented the hedonistic elitists during the worst times in economic history . Maybe it might make you feel less guilty about the deindustrialization of blue collar people who couldn’t partake in coke snorting and anal sex
Actors usually say that any kind of intimate scene is difficult and embarrassing to perform. I also heard that in Death Wish 2, some of the male actors were so upset about an assault scene that they threw up.
I was hired to work a NYE Disco event and I've been submerging myself in Disco culture, so this could not have come out at a better time.
i'm brazilian and i find my experience in clubs very insteresting. as a woman, i never felt comfortable and safe at what i call "straight parties", because the gender performance was so strict and i was harassed all the time, i just couldn't let loose and have fun. is like guys were not able to do it, so they wouldn't let women do it lol. so i always hung out at lgbt parties, i always felt more safe, accepted and the songs were much better. but when i started clubbing, i noticed that some of the straight guys my age were going to lgbt clubs to get the "good girls" (whatever that means), so they had to coexist with lgbt people and even get harassed by them - i also noticed that those guys were more open to be lgbt friendly and also experiment with their sexuality as well. so maybe things are getting better?
You just described my path to "lgbt friendliness" and progressivism as a brazilian straight teen in the 00's looking for girls kkkkk
Prejudice is born of fear. Fear is born of ignorance. Familiarity is the remedy.
Understandable! I’m bi so am a member of the community, but I’ve always felt safer and just free to have fun in LGBT+ spaces over “straight” bars etc. visiting my first gay club was such a moment for me. I didn’t feel like I was being peeves on constantly.
This video couldn't have come at a better time. I only just watched this film for the first time, on Christmas day no less, because my family and I thought it would be a fun disco film. Needless to say I was quite shocked and confused. I wasn't sure how much I had a misunderstanding of disco culture or whether the film wanted me to find it ironic that someone who hates latinos and black people and gays would love disco. I also had that classic issue of watching an old film and not being sure what of Tony and his friend's behaviour I was meant to find off-putting. It was obvious that the film was meant to show Tony's disillusionment with what he once considered to be the most important of status symbols (winning dance competitions, winning fights with latinos, and having sex with as many women as possible). Yet there was something about the whole affair that made it stick in my throat slightly...
omg same! watched it with my mum on christmas. i was like wtf the whole time and my mum kept saying she didn't even remember that was in the movie.
@willowsilver1284 Congratulations. You watched an actual film with characters portraying real life people who are complex- both good and bad - like YOU and me. It's called Realism.
I may be a metalhead to the core, but I can still get down to some classic disco or funk. There's just something alluring about losing yourself to the beat and vibing out. Sometimes you need to balance out the angst with some boogie. And it will never get old watching KISS trying do dance music, lol.
Great video and a take on SNF i never thought about, but extremely compelling. My mom is a huge Travolta fan so I grew up watching this movie (along with the Stayin' Alive sequel) and as far as I'm concerned, Annette's rape scene has Always been a massive trauma for me, to the point where i can't bring myself to watching the film. So thanks for the insight, i really appreciated it!
I just watched Saturday Night Fever a few months ago for the first time and am still absolutely in love with it. It's a fun, exuberant but also tough, dark film about a young man learning that he has to get his shit together. Let's say I highly related to that and needed it.
Just hope you “not giving a shit about someone being raped” was not one of the parts you “highly related to and needed”
@@ilibanawell, as unpleasant as it is, that is what the reality is like. Young men simply don't care. Or very little. Underground scenes for all their shine are brutal.
You highly relate to a man who shamed the woman for being assaulted? It’s fascinating how straight men like you refuse to care for anyone else, while completely missing the point of this video.
Hands down, this is one of the best docs about "SNF" (and the disco movement) that I've watched on YT. Another great "character study" film to see (obliviously influenced by "SNF") is called "Tony Manero". It's set in war torn South America in the late 70's and focuses on a middle aged sociopathic male who's obsessed with the "SNF" film. There's a televised dance contest that he wants to enter and it shows the brutal path he takes to get there. Thank you for posting your fantastic video.
Fantastic video. I was 13 when Saturday Night Fever came out, and my mom took us to see it (though she was upset with the violence of it) I loved disco dancing and recall practicing The Hustle and The Bump in the girls locker room with other kids.
There was definitely a factor of the rock kids coming down hard on disco, but there was also a factor of the popular kids (who weren’t the dedicated hard rock kids, they were considered “burnouts”) turning disco into their own power play (who had the most expensive gold jewelry or Quiana shirt).
It became over-saturated and commercial, with one disco radio station in San Francisco airing an especially cringey ad featuring wacky grandparents gyrating on the dance floor. At some point the average person “moved on”.
Thankfully there has been a strong movement to reclaim what disco signified to begin with.
as someone whos obsessed with disco and its countercultural roots, i couldnt be more overjoyed by seeing you make such a great video discussing these topics
The Sailor Moon soundtrack is basically just magic disco and it works
Damn. Of course this is how disco was stolen. Thank you for educating folks like me who never got the rundown before!
I had no idea Disco had all of this DIY,POC,And LGBT+ history behind it. This is really having me reevaluate how I think of Disco now.
It didn’t this is woke historical revisionism. Working class the people of the 1970s resented the superficial hedonism of urban nightlife that they were excluded from because of class. This historical revision of disco is just so upper middle class hedonist can feel less guilty about what factory workers had to go through while they did coke and had anal sex
Same and now I wonder how much of the public hatred towards disco is centered around homophobia...
@@juliafraa6419 it’s not it’s rooted in classism: Poor people in the 70s couldn’t afford to be as hedonistic as gay coke heads who live in the village
Yes. I liked it up until now.
@@SoulforSale You don't like it anymore?
I watched this movie with my mom a while ago. She has a habit of forgetting the tone of movies and I always end up watching something more upsetting than I signed up for. This was her pick one night I was pretty annoyed bc I wanted to watch a fun dance movie but it was really interesting since I’d never seen that side of disco.
Your mom was like mine, who'd let me watch Rocky, Die Hard, first Rambo and Showdown in Little Tokyo when i was 4 or 5.
So my homeroom music teacher took a handful of us girls out to see Saturday Night Fever when it first came out. I was in my mid teens and boy it changed my life. I was not going to be Annette. I was going to be Stephanie. Disco still lives in my heart, kinda like a dead relative you reach out to during difficult times.
It is funny to me that just about everything said about Disco also applies to Punk Rock in London, NYC, LA, SF [and maybe Sydney/Melbourne but I don't know enough about those scenes culturally to say for sure] in the same time period...
it was a haven for LBGTQ and minorities (largely Lantinx, Asian, and mixed race people) ,
a lot of women were involved,
it scared the straights,
it was largely co opted by toxic maleness in the early 80s or repackaged and sold as 'New Wave' to the yippies,
it was on the surface as much about image/fashion as the music,
the clubs are legendary,
drugs and AIDS decimated the 1st generation of the scene
early embrace of Rap/Hip Hop,
notable dance styles
the music was attacked by critics as 'not music' and for being 'basic'
RIP Vivienne Westwood
😂, ok, So Ramones, Sex Pistols and the Clash were LGBTQ and minorities! Lol, dude you cant rewrite history because you want to stuff your woke ideology into everything that ever existed! Some of us were actually there so your post is ridiculous.
I remember thinking it was going to be a fun musical. All I ever heard about was the white suit, the dancing and the music. Instead it was very bleak, and what happened to Annette killed the whole movie for me. It made me cry. I don’t mind gritty dramas, but I felt violated and totally duped.
Agreed, I really enjoyed the music but jeez it was a depressing watch
This movie really frustrated me when I watched it for the first time recently. I was expecting a fun dance movie, but, while the dancing is pretty spectacular, it's far from a fun movie. I still have complicated feelings on it, but I appreciate the points and perspective you have and make on it. It's definitely a fascinating modern watch, especially as a fan of disco derived music.
It is also total whiplash to watch Stayin' Alive Right after because... Yeesh
Agreed! Love the soundtrack, hated the plot.
this video came at the perfect time because we're in a space where society is trying to cope with the pandemic via dance parties, dance music and even beyonce's renaissance album making references to this time period
Brilliantly edited, researched and scripted doc as ever, and loved the collabs with Polyphonic :))
House Music all night long?
There are so many excellently written disco tracks that just lived on r&b/soul. What a tragedy that disco was followed by white boy hair metal. 👀
R&B/soul never really died. Many bands that thrived on disco eventually moved on to post-disco experimentation post-1979, going on to carve a smaller yet still successful subset of pop culture in the 1980s with the emergence of contemporary R&B as a punchier, updated spiritual successor to disco. It continues to carry the banner alongside house music and hip-hop music.
I understand what disco movement is about. I also use dance music (trance) for escapism. Nothing else works better for me to release the tension than going to a music festival with friends. I even visited few countries because I wanted to go to festivals there. Always an adventure, always positive emotions. It's like a therapy
My dad, a new jersey puerto rican that grew up on motown, was huge into disco back in the day. Had the polyester suit and everything
I remembered Chicago destroyed disco and brought it back converting to house
The word "disco" in Swedish morphed to mean any nightclub where you'd dance, so over here you had young, hip people saying they were going to "a disco" long after the music genre had died out. Back when I used to go out drinking in the late 90s/early 2000s you either went to a bar or "a disco", though IIIRC some people were starting to use the word "nattklubb" (nightclub) instead by then, so maybe younger Swedes won't recognize this at all.
I always recall the "disco" being synonymous with nightclub... also the "school disco" was very much a thing for me circa 1977/78 :D
The disco= synonym for nightclub thing is also the case in the Netherlands 😁
It might be the same in germany too... I think my parents still say disco (even though they were both born in the late 70s, so obviously did not see much of disco in its prime), but anybody my age says 'club'
Discothèque or disco for short, gave its name to the movement. A disco is a place were records are spun and people dance to them, although it has now been replace by" club".
Just like Discothèque gave its name to the Disco movement, now Club is giving its name to Jersey Club music (with songs like "Just Wanna Rock" by Lil Uzi Vert and Boy's a Liar Pt. 2 by PinkPantheress and Ice Spice). I find it interesting how music changes and evolves. Jersey Club music takes inspiration from House which takes Inspiration from Disco.
I love Saturday Night Fever. My wife and I always dance to whatever Fever song at every wedding reception. It's all good as long as NO ONE HITS MY HAIR!
I got autoplayed into a fan-made music video for Stayin' Alive one time, and I was shocked. It couldn't convey the full depths of the depravity but it made me realise how messed up it is! I was really excited to watch this just so I'd know more about it. This kind of nuanced appreciation is informative and needed.
Woooo! Congrats on the podcast. Can’t wait to listen.
The one thing I really love about ABBA, despite its whitewashing of the genre, is that they really branched out. Their disco tracks are actually my least favorite. They wrote so many wacky songs in their first albums and than Bjorn and Benny became extremely contemplative in their last album “The Visitors”. But even though their interpretation of disco lost some of the core soul, they were still very good tracks, especially “Voulez-vous”. It’s hard to rectify that sometimes when I know it’s really not what disco was meant to be.
Can you tell I was indoctrinated on disco?
completely agree!!! i love abba
I wouldn't call them whitewashed as I would say they were basically Swedish weebos for American culture (the boys especially)
...ok?
Abba? You mean those toothless harbingers of pretty much everything wrong with so much pop music since? Those obnoxious precursors to the scourge that is eurodance?
@@viktorberzinsky4781 you can't deny Gimmie Gimmie Gimmie ....it's impossible
Travolta said disco had basically been over two years before they made the movie…he searched salvation army’s for the disco clothes because the normal department or boutique stores no longer sold them
@@jab1289 what you wrote or texted may be true…I was just remembering what travolta said on his PBS interview…it’s like punk rock everyone speaks from their own perspective, I do not know anything but this… disco music was great, thanks for the info
I really adore this movie, as it showed the darker side of the disco era, and how Tony eventually realises how shallow and pointless that whole lifestyle is. It's extremely bleak, compared to the more lighthearted "Grease."
Uhhh did you actually watch the video…?
Original Grease was a lot grittier too there’s a video on the drama dorks channel called “the sanitisation of grease” I found it really interesting check it out :)
Very interesting and thoughtful documentary.
I was born in the late 60s and so the 70s was very much part of my early childhood and resonated with me a lot. I never really found the Bee Gees etc sterile as such (You Should Be Dancing is incredible record with a lot of uniqueness) although there were a lot of terrible disco records around in that era. When I was in my early 20s I discovered Salsoul LPs which were an important element of early disco and that was very much a mixed bag, also a lot of discofied jazz funk... like you alluded to I think a big part of the early disco movement was not the music itself but the event and what DJs did with the material.
I'm intrigued that I've not really come across a satisfactory answer to what was the first disco record...
Disco, as in the music genre, never died. It just became mainstream pop by the early 80s. Modern pop music today is still basically disco. Madonna, Britney, Beyonce...it's all basically disco just with different production techniques. The clubs themselves were replaced by dance clubs. Even some traditionally rock based clubs have moved towards having a DJ that plays music designed to be danced to. Now, not liking disco makes you the outsider...like me lol. I'm a queer person who just so happens to not enjoy throbbing bass lines and finds that kind of music either uninteresting or irritating.
Huh. I never realized that between this and what he did with honky tonk culture in Urban Cowboy that Travolta is a serial music scene killer. Wild.
Great video, loved it ! I don't have much attachement to Saturday Night Fever, but I am tirelessly in love with Disco. But a few of points you brought up in the video I happen to have read similar points to them in a fantastic book called "Turn The Beat Around: The Rise And Fall Of Disco" by Peter Shapiro. It's a book that is mostly focused on Disco and its unknown history. Mind you, he is very vocal about his taste, but clearly passionate. If anyone here wants to learn more in depth about Disco, this book is a great start, and a great companion piece to this video.
A sequel to this film, called "Staying Alive," came out in the early 80s, still starred Travolta as Tony Manero but was directed by Sylvester Stallone, of all people! It follows Tony as he attempts a career as a Broadway dancer while treating every woman in his life (minus his mother) like trash. There's a scene where Tony is visiting his mom in Brooklyn, passes by the 2001 Odyssey he used to frequent - and finds it is now a gay club. Kinda poetic considering where the movement came from.
This is hilarious never knew this. Surprised it is not discussed more.
I can't say that I'm an ardent admirer of this film, but even if it's not one of my all-time favorites, I do understand its iconic importance, especially since I LOVE disco.
As one who grew up listening and dancing to disco in my teenage years through the mid-90's to mid-2000's - I used to listen to Blondie, Donna Summers, ABBA, KC and the Sunshine Band, and the Bee Gees a lot starting in my mom's car on long drives; I even still have the Pure Disco CD collection that I played to death blasting at high volume through my headphones - not to mention that I actually took dancing lessons during my pre-teens, I can still feel its spiritual power thrive as it's been conferred to new generations, even if it's been occasionally distorted for use in DJ mixes at night clubs like here in Asheville - which has a distinct 70's vibe of its own - that I have regularly frequented.
Maybe it's also the fact that I was born in the mid-80's shortly after the initial disco craze died. As I grew up learning about the music from the previous era while the new millennium was about to and just beginning, I really felt sad that I had been born after that period and missed all of it - the counterculture, the New Freedom in cinema following the collapse of censorship, the revolt against conservative values, etc. - and while it may have not been all wine and roses, I still try to get the same feeling that those people had who actually lived during those times and danced in those clubs and felt that there was no way that this could end before it did in the 80's. I highly doubt that anyone today and in the distant future will ever be able to revive the exact 70's scene and live it as our parents and grandparents did, but at least we still have the music.
I love Disco not much for the dancing, but for the music itself. Then again, you can't help it but move your body when you hear it!
Disco only died after 1979 on the hot 100 and pop radio. It was still huge in underground communities and on the dance club charts and was renamed to post disco (or sometimes boogie) and gave birth to house music in Chicago
Hmmm not Chicago. It was in New York. Frankie Knuckles slowed the best down, but kept the 4 on the floor so the breakers could b-boy to it. It just wasn’t called house until Frankie loved to Chicago and worked at The Warehouse; hence House Music.
I’m NY, rap was king during this time, but Chicago kept the house going and became home. But, make no mistake, it started in NY. You can go to a Philadelphia’s own (my hometown) First Choice and listen to “Let No Man Put Asunder”, and house is all through it, and that was in early 80’s.
However, yes, Chicago IS house!!!!
@@Keepdapocket actually i heard it started overseas before it hit new york.
how are these videos free. loved learning about this era with you ☺️ thank you!!!
I love this video, thanks so much for producing it! One thing to note additionally: the popularity of Saturday Night Fever was boosted even more when the producers made a PG-13 cut in 1978. The "grit" of the original version was heavily sanitized, perhaps giving an even less genuine portrayal of what the disco scene really was.
I grew up and was a young DJ during the disco era. An experience that was, is priceless. Your commentary is spot on. Perfect. Thank you.
I remeber being at a bar in a touristy European city that didnt see a lot of Americans. The bartender told me that it used to be so hard for them to pick a good playlist "we get people from all over and all ages so now we just play disco because everybody loves disco". He said it so matter of factly too. It hit me then: Americans hate disco because they lack the capacity...it's all the coca cola and protestantism...makes them terrible dancers.
and yet Disco was born and grew in an American city, NYC.
@@known_film4081 NYC is basically an entity of its own
There was never really a disco backlash in Europe tbh. It just became called House, Eurodance, Electro and such.
@@medealkemy a lot of black American singers found succes In Europe too more so than if they had stayed in the states
People haven’t hated disco since the late 90’s because that’s how nostalgia works. Nostalgia doesn’t help the dancing skills tho 😅
My problem with Disco (as well as Grunge at beginning of 90's and currently Reggeton in Latin America) is that each of these genres of Musica seemed to completely supplant all other forms of music and pushed them completely off the radio in their respective times .... I'm not a country music fan, but country and rock seemed to coexistence at the same time , many times even on the same station .... you can't even listen to a Latin radio station currently that plays Regetton and hear anything else .... its sad
Very interesting essay. I lived during the seventies as a child and a per-adolescent, and I lived all the Hype of Disco. I still have all my Disco record 46 years later. It was a walk down memory lane too watch this video. I remember my older brother enthralled by the image of Tony Manero, and I dare to say that he modeled his persona influenced by that character. I remember seeing him going out at night with his buddies to the disco wearing his white suit. Disco and this movie were so influential in so many ways. I listen to any of the songs of the era and feel transported to that happy time. Yes, I lived it from the perspective of a young kid, but the influence of Disco was so great that it infused the life of young kids, too. I remember that a weekly show in Venezuela created a contest called "The Mini John Travolta" where kids dressed like Tony Manero danced like he did in the picture. That show, as far as I can remember, ran for months.
I do feel that it is a little ahistorical to refer to 'I feel love' vocal delivery as a hallmark of authentic disco and then later make reference to Moroder and eurodsico as representing disco's movement away from it's soulful roots, when they are one and the same, as Moroder produced it. Early disco tended to have much stronger vocal performances than Ms Summer was capable of, and I say this as a fan of hers. If Noah Polyphonic wanted to make a case for this, her song 'Love to love you baby' would have been a better example as it came out some time earlier.
Excellent video though!!
I’m glad the point of the EDM scene stemming from Disco, almost all of the clips remind me of the shows/festivals that I go to. Great video
You ate up this analysis/commentary 👏🏽🕺🌟 This was pretty damn phenomenal, Broey
Just found this channel last month; immediately binged all your videos and have been eagerly waiting for a new upload, and it didn't disappoint.
I'm a Disco Dance teacher. This dance style is still alive in Europe thanks to competition organized by IDO. It changed a lot in 40 years but the spirit is still there!
I was born a year before Saturday Night Fever came out. Growing up and still today, its music continues to be popular in my country, but many people talk about the movie as something cheesy from that time. I watched it for the first time when I was 20 years old, and I was stunned!!! It's a shame people misjudge this movie. Thank you for such a great video. I learned a great deal and my love of Saturday Night Fever increased even if it was based on a lie. There's a lot to appreciate in it as a piece of art. And in Disco music too!!!
Cheesy? No. But that's what those who don't look below the surface think. Fortunately, you recognize and appreciate this film's many layers and messages.
There's a WCW wrestler who went by the name of Disco Inferno, and the entire time watching this, I'm reminded of him.
I've started watching your videos this year but man does this hit hard! Incredible video
Incredible, honest and informative analysis. Saturday Night Fever is such a curious phenomenon and highlights such a complex cultural mix!
Thanks for this video Broey. I’m always interested to learn more about Disco and this gave me more insight on it than I expected.
Love this collaboration! At the start I was wondering if they'd mention Polyphonic, and what I got was more than I expected, excellent
Omg Broey!!! I am giddy with how much I enjoyed that!! Fav video of the year, by any creater!! Also, feeling super validated for my love of disco!! Lol
A truly impressive video - a wonderfully argued discussion - thank you for a lush 41 minutes x
IM LITERALLY HAVING A DISCO TONIGHT IN AN ABANDONED HOUSE! DISCO NEVER DIED!! DANCE YOUR HEARTS OUT!!! love you
Manhattan Skyline is my favorite track from Saturday Night Fever. It has the lush strings and driving beat Polyphonic mentioned. I was 16 when the movie came out. My parents took me to see the PG cut of it which was still icky on so many levels.
I grew up with Funk which I still like better than disco and I still like disco alot.
Disco music never died it just evolved. Coming largely from Funk, Soul & Synth Pop. It morphed directly into the Chicago, Balearic & Acid 'House' movements in the late 80's and branched out into Hip Hop, Commercial Motown, Urban, RnB, Ragga and Dancehall in Jamaica and countless other genres and ultimately became what is now known as EDM, and Rave in its many forms.... Disco is possibly the single most influential genre of popular music ever to have been developed. Disco came about largely as a result of three separate and seminal events.
The development of 'four to the floor' disco beat by Earl Young in 1973. The release of Autobahn by Kraftwerk in 1974 & the work done by the 'Father of Disco', Giorgio Moroder from 1975.
All of which allowed, and inspired the creation very danceable hits, and longer 12" single remixes for the warehouse parties in Chicago, and the clubs like Studio 54, Loft, and ghetto Block parties in New York; the 70's Northern Soul clubs in the UK and many more across the USA and worldwide. The Bee Gees, and SNF were just jumping on the mainstream bandwagon, that helped popularize it as a Global craze.
So yes there was a mainstream movement, in the late 70's, and a significant gay and to a far lesser extent trans component, which together with the rise of empowered Afro Caribbean/ Afro American female singers was a thing. But there was also a lot of racism, and homophobia at play. Much like the wider world back then.
All that having been said, most of the heavy lifting in the development of Disco, and its descendants was done by heterosexual male musicians, club owners, promoters and producers, as singers like Gloria Gaynor, and Donna Summer would be the first to confirm. Any other interpretation of the history, is retroactively imposing the values and mores of today on to it. Which was definitely not a thing back then.
Woah, I loved this!! Maybe my favorite video of yours to date. Awesome job.
Arthur Russell/Julius Eastman stan here to say: thank you for making this video. also listen to Dinosaur L/Loose Joints
Arthur Russell's stuff released under his own name is incredible too, although less disco :)
Thanks Broey! As someone who's rewatching The Get Down on Netflix, watched SNF in my early twenties because it's A Film To Watch™️ and got whiplashed, and heard of "Disco Demolition Night" through the podcast You're Wrong About, it was a great way to understand the context.
Off topic but will we see you back at The Mothership at some point ?
Surprised there's not more YWA cross referencing in this comment thread !
thank you for this history, and as a dancer, I have now more stories to tell. Few things not told in this short documentary about Saturdat Night Fever:
1. John has one substitute.........where he compares the new boots with his own. That person is a substitute.
2. The original music used in first place, they did no have the rights to, hence they contacted Bee Gees. Also, in some places, they dancers are out of sync with the music and this might be due to it is another song, they actually dance to, as said in the movie, Bee Gees music was later dubbed.
3. The crew and cast had their problems with the MOB
I vividly remember, when saw this movie in Copenhagen, Denmark. That began my dancing career as a professional dancer. Still dancing at 60.
incredible work, as always!! really excited to start listening to the podcast :)
Excellent commentary and analysis. Many thanks.
This is an EXCELLENT video essay! Top tier 👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾
This was one of my favorite movies as a kid. When I watched it again in my 20’s I couldn’t believe how racist it is. Thank you for this wonderful breakdown. Im going to watch it again.
Amazing video, watched it yesterday and keep catching myself replaying ideas from it and daydreaming about disco. Never seen the movie but a huge fan of disco. Fascinating history!
Amazing essay, thank you so much ❤ worthy of a classroom!
I'm so happy you brought up the article ✨✨
Your channel is so dope!!!
excellent work, thank you for this. I watched this and Pollyphonics piece twice.
Your commentary really makes me want to revisit Saturday Night Fever. When I watched it a few years back, I took it at face value and thought Tony and his friends were massive jerks for their behavior and declared the movie to be terrible. After all, why would I watch a movie about awful people? But after breaking it down the way you did, I kind of want to watch it again to see what I missed.
This was a fascinating and informative video! 👏
you’re amazing. love your videos. pls give us more when you can.
Is the rehash podcast on RUclips? Honestly this is where I listen to podcasts these days!
I can't begin to to tell you how grateful and appreciative I am of this close reading from you. Happy New Year!
holy shit this is so insightfull
so good
i mean ive been thinking about this film and reading about disco a bunch but this video still revolutionized my understanding of disco and of saturday night fever
thank you
Very late to the comments and I was born just after disco ended. One theory I heard about the mainstreaming of disco, which is plausible, was that a lot of the older record executives, read people alive during the big band era, liked disco because it kind of reminded them of that era in terms of how polished it could be and that it was dance music compared to most rock during the 70s.
Excellent video! One thing though -- the Verrazano bridge doesn't go to Manhattan, it goes to Staten Island, which is even farther away from the city. When he rides the train into the city, he takes the R which goes underwater. There is no bridge from Bay Ridge into Manhattan.
I forgot to mention it helps me when I go to Philadelphia, PA and this music goes with me there. It is my favourite city and because of Saturday Night Fever I became a Paramount Pictures insider since I called the Paramount Studios and bought a lot of their stuff.
This was just a mesmerisingly good video. I can't quite explain why it resonates so much with me, but it definitely did.
Congratulations on another beautifully executed video.
I’m already excited for this video :) and it hasn’t started yet.
Great video, thank you for posting.
Brilliant take on the topic. But one interesting aspect to me was that in many ways, the blue print for Saturday night fever is very much the Northern Soul scene. The working class, white male dominated dance floor with soundtrack from black artists is very reminiscent of it and knowing the book that inspired the film was written by a British writer inspired by Brit subculture makes perfect sense!
Another great video (as always)!
Amazing video thank you so much!