@@doc7austinthat should be a big shame since there're many fast tracks (about 300-350kmh) but only have ETCS, so if they want to do something, it should be ASAP
The BR 407 (17 units in total) is currently being retrofitted with ETCS Baseline 3. It is, however, already equipped with a „beta version“ of Baseline 2. The reason behind all that is that when the first units were delivered in 2013, ETCS wasn’t as far developed as it is today (obviously). I feel like this whole drama around this issue with the Paris-Berlin service not being able to operate on the Erfurt-Halle section is completely blown out of proportion as so many issues of Deutsche Bahn are. All of these decisions are reasonable if you take a deeper look and actually try to understand how all of it works.
yes, what with this beta version of baseline 2, the BR 407 is not allowed onto the VDE 8; moreover, the riedbahn will soon be out of range of the BR 407
@ No your point about the Riedbahn is not true… First of all, the 407s are currently being retrofitted one by one and I guess it won’t be too long of a gap between the Riedbahn ETCS launch and the last 407 retrofit being completed. Also, for the return-service from Paris to Berlin there wouldn’t be any capacity on the Riedbahn for this service anyway, which froces it onto the Bergstrasse and trough Darmstadt in any case. And last but not least, the Twindexx/BR446 operating on the RE70 Riedbahn service for instance also isn’t equipped with ETCS. Thus, the 407s can still run on the Riedbahn, just at a slightly lower top speed of 165km/h and with PZB. So my point still stands: This whole drama is complete blown out of proportion.
Thanks for the great video !! Nice to see you on screen too. Really interesting to see the person behind the marvellous video's i've been watching for a long time now !
The route from Karlsruhe via Hockenheim - Schwetzingen - Weinheim - Darmstadt - Frankfurt Süd is a good choice, as it is direct and it avoids Mannheim HBF and the busy section Mannheim - Frankfurt-Airport - Frankfurt Süd.
By the time these railway lines are in service, all ICE 3 Velaro D trainsets will be retrofitted with ETCS baseline version 3 so that the trains can also run on them.
In the next years this line will get faster because of the new high speed tracks: Mannheim-Frankfurt (300kph) Frankfurt-Fulda (250kph) Fulda-Erfurt (230/200kph) And of course the tunnel in raststatt (250kph)
Living in Warsaw, now theoretically I can board the first train to Berlin at 5am, it arrives several minutes past 10, and then change to 11.54 ICE to Paris and be in Paris the same day about 20, all by train. I actually wanted to do it, inspired by this video 😁, but then decided to split it with overnight stay in Berlin, because it's supposed to be pleasant experience, and not a fight against falling asleep midday and that +- 1.5 hour time between trains seems risky, especially with border controls, It was somehow possible before with more stops, but now it's so easy with only two trains
Well that's because Germany's train tracks are not as modern as France. Most of the cases they use the same tracks for high-speed trains and regional+freight trains.
Thanks for the report. I wonder how common is it for ICE Bordrestaurant to actually have things that they advertice on the menu? On last three occasions I rode ICE they pretty much had nothing and only served some wraps and of course beer. It's really annoying when I board a train for a ~6 hour journey expecting to eat my lunch there and then they don't have anything.
You could do Paris - Berlin in 7 1/2 hours via Brussels and Cologne. Pity they didn't choose that route (or maybe the Belgian Railways are just to hard to work with...)
ETCS 3 is very very new. There is a way to deploy it over ETCS 2 to allow co-existence, but not sure if it can coexist with German's proprietary PTZ or whatever is their control system with induction cables along the track to transmit data to train). ETCS 3 is moving block, 2 is fixed block so much easier to coexists with older systems than ETCS 3. ETCS 3 also requires train integrity detection. A car that is lost at the end won't be detected so the rest of train needs to detect if it loses a car and stop to go and get it back. ETCS 2 and older still have track circuits that detect presence of car shorting the tracks so there is no need to have train integrity protection. Have to assume that DB have done homework and planned the upgrades and if some models of trains will be barred fro a line, it would be temporary.
You are confusing ETCS Level 3 with ETCS Baseline 3 specifications. There is not ETCS Level 3 track in operation but some tracks in Germany require Baseline 3 on the trains
These trains look superb (❤) from the outside, but the interior feels so plain and outdated, especially the bistro car! Some soft 'mood lightning' and varied motif paneling would do wonders.
Well they have been built like for more than 10 years, so the interior looks more "oldschool" compared to the other generations of the ICE Family (like ICE 1+2 and more outdated than the others). While the experiences still seem OK, they should get a big refurbishment, like the new ICE 3 Neo interior
n 2028, the ICE 3 Velaro D trainsets BR 407 will be fifteen years old; an age when trains will be redesigned to last another fifteen years. The trains will receive the design elements of the new interior design for ICE trains as applied to the ICE 3neo trainsets from the 17th trainset onwards. Until then, the trains will continue to operate with the current interior.
How ridiculous, les than 2h of travel time in France for 400km, around 6h in Germany for 500km… a real game changer in slow travel. That is german excellence…
Germany and France designed their High Speed networks differently. It's as simple as that. France was more a style of 'All roads lead to Rome', but instead of roads, we have High Speed Railway and instead of Rome - Paris. Paris is France's biggest and most important city and aglomeration at the same time. This is why France built all High Speed lines connected with the capital in one way or another. Meanwhile Germany has multiple equally important cities and aglomerations - Berlin in the east, Hamburg in north, Munich in south and Cologne Bonn urban region in the west. They already had multiple railroad lines and thus, Germany mostly adapted the existing infrastructure to acommodate High Speed Railway.
@ ok tell me why 2h for 400km in France and 6h for 800km in Germany ? 3 times more. If german railways is so good, why the différence?. Be honest not german.
Apparently, Germany does not dare to upset its best friends in the States, with their Acela being 'the slowest high-speed train service in the world' 😂
I thought they're already fitted with such and are just not certified for running on ETCS routes only in Germany. Not certified does not mean they're not fitted with such.
The ICE 3 Velaro D is currently being retrofitted with ETCS baseline version 3. From December 2026, when Stuttgart 21 enters service, ETCS for trains to, from and via Stuttgart will be required to be equipped with ETCS baseline version 3. All ICE 3 Velaro D trainsets must have been adapted and certified by then.
@@doc7austinwell neither at the "Bordrestaurant" my friend. I have ordered a "Currywurst and Pommes" from an ICE 4 "Bordrestaurant" and guess what, the moment I saw them put the sauce and the potato fries into the microwave, I knew that would like a horror movie. What a pity since I have to pay around 14€ (with a Still water) and many said that it's good. So in conclusion, find a "Bordrestaurant" that "cook" the dishes sounds more and more impossible these days.
The fact that a German high-speed train lacks certification for German high-speed lines is the most German thing ever.
of course, it is - crazy, isn't it ?
Given the distance, it makes the whole journey quite slow, although the rolling stock is really high-tech. What a pity 😢
the BR 407 can use most high-speed lines in germany, as long as they equipped with LZB and not ETCS
@@doc7austinthat should be a big shame since there're many fast tracks (about 300-350kmh) but only have ETCS, so if they want to do something, it should be ASAP
They are being fitted, but they would not make the 15th december deadline. Expect them to start using it in a few months.
The BR 407 (17 units in total) is currently being retrofitted with ETCS Baseline 3. It is, however, already equipped with a „beta version“ of Baseline 2. The reason behind all that is that when the first units were delivered in 2013, ETCS wasn’t as far developed as it is today (obviously). I feel like this whole drama around this issue with the Paris-Berlin service not being able to operate on the Erfurt-Halle section is completely blown out of proportion as so many issues of Deutsche Bahn are. All of these decisions are reasonable if you take a deeper look and actually try to understand how all of it works.
yes, what with this beta version of baseline 2, the BR 407 is not allowed onto the VDE 8; moreover, the riedbahn will soon be out of range of the BR 407
@ No your point about the Riedbahn is not true… First of all, the 407s are currently being retrofitted one by one and I guess it won’t be too long of a gap between the Riedbahn ETCS launch and the last 407 retrofit being completed. Also, for the return-service from Paris to Berlin there wouldn’t be any capacity on the Riedbahn for this service anyway, which froces it onto the Bergstrasse and trough Darmstadt in any case. And last but not least, the Twindexx/BR446 operating on the RE70 Riedbahn service for instance also isn’t equipped with ETCS. Thus, the 407s can still run on the Riedbahn, just at a slightly lower top speed of 165km/h and with PZB.
So my point still stands: This whole drama is complete blown out of proportion.
Thank you for train ride. Beautiful.
It's so rare that a german train driver blows the air horn. Super driver😊
for that train - if you see trainspotters, they blow their horn to the maximum
Thanks for the great video !! Nice to see you on screen too. Really interesting to see the person behind the marvellous video's i've been watching for a long time now !
Thanks for the video!
12:48 well there was a type of ICE 3MF (also certified to run in France), but that should be too long ago and I'm not sure if that was the one
The route from Karlsruhe via Hockenheim - Schwetzingen - Weinheim - Darmstadt - Frankfurt Süd is a good choice, as it is direct and it avoids Mannheim HBF and the busy section Mannheim - Frankfurt-Airport - Frankfurt Süd.
i think that route is even faster than via the riedbahn
@@doc7austinit is but when the new high speed track from mannheim tofrankfurt is finished then it wont be any longer.
By the time these railway lines are in service, all ICE 3 Velaro D trainsets will be retrofitted with ETCS baseline version 3 so that the trains can also run on them.
In the next years this line will get faster because of the new high speed tracks:
Mannheim-Frankfurt (300kph)
Frankfurt-Fulda (250kph)
Fulda-Erfurt (230/200kph)
And of course the tunnel in raststatt (250kph)
in the next decades maybe
Living in Warsaw, now theoretically I can board the first train to Berlin at 5am, it arrives several minutes past 10, and then change to 11.54 ICE to Paris and be in Paris the same day about 20, all by train.
I actually wanted to do it, inspired by this video 😁, but then decided to split it with overnight stay in Berlin, because it's supposed to be pleasant experience, and not a fight against falling asleep midday
and that +- 1.5 hour time between trains seems risky, especially with border controls,
It was somehow possible before with more stops, but now it's so easy with only two trains
No offence but it’s quite interesting that the train is amazingly fast in French section but amazingly slow in German section.
Well that's because Germany's train tracks are not as modern as France. Most of the cases they use the same tracks for high-speed trains and regional+freight trains.
very VIP place 👍
car no. 29 was closed off for media and VIP
I believe that the LGV Est has ETCS Level 2 signaling so the BR 407 uses it, but only in France.
as far as I understand: the ICE BR 407 uses the TVM/KVB national safety system of France for driving on the LGV Est - not ETCS
Thanks for the report. I wonder how common is it for ICE Bordrestaurant to actually have things that they advertice on the menu? On last three occasions I rode ICE they pretty much had nothing and only served some wraps and of course beer. It's really annoying when I board a train for a ~6 hour journey expecting to eat my lunch there and then they don't have anything.
the dining car didn't operate correctly, as the dish washer went broken
You could do Paris - Berlin in 7 1/2 hours via Brussels and Cologne. Pity they didn't choose that route (or maybe the Belgian Railways are just to hard to work with...)
Nope, SNCF just doesn’t want to create unnecessary competition to its own business (aka Eurostar)
ETCS 3 is very very new. There is a way to deploy it over ETCS 2 to allow co-existence, but not sure if it can coexist with German's proprietary PTZ or whatever is their control system with induction cables along the track to transmit data to train).
ETCS 3 is moving block, 2 is fixed block so much easier to coexists with older systems than ETCS 3. ETCS 3 also requires train integrity detection. A car that is lost at the end won't be detected so the rest of train needs to detect if it loses a car and stop to go and get it back. ETCS 2 and older still have track circuits that detect presence of car shorting the tracks so there is no need to have train integrity protection.
Have to assume that DB have done homework and planned the upgrades and if some models of trains will be barred fro a line, it would be temporary.
You are confusing ETCS Level 3 with ETCS Baseline 3 specifications. There is not ETCS Level 3 track in operation but some tracks in Germany require Baseline 3 on the trains
@@pirazel7858 Thanks. I'll have to research on the differences between ETCS 3 and ETCS Baseline 3.
Hello, Nice wiev 💪🚈🚶❤️
Have a nice day ☕
Best regards, Janusz from Warsaw Poland ✌️🇵🇱🖐️
These trains look superb (❤) from the outside, but the interior feels so plain and outdated, especially the bistro car! Some soft 'mood lightning' and varied motif paneling would do wonders.
Well they have been built like for more than 10 years, so the interior looks more "oldschool" compared to the other generations of the ICE Family (like ICE 1+2 and more outdated than the others). While the experiences still seem OK, they should get a big refurbishment, like the new ICE 3 Neo interior
@nonstopnormal666 My point exactly, a new ICE connection is exciting, but rail travellers expect more than what was adequate in the early 2000's.
n 2028, the ICE 3 Velaro D trainsets BR 407 will be fifteen years old; an age when trains will be redesigned to last another fifteen years. The trains will receive the design elements of the new interior design for ICE trains as applied to the ICE 3neo trainsets from the 17th trainset onwards. Until then, the trains will continue to operate with the current interior.
Ein Deutscher Bahn Zug kommt zu früh? Der Zugführer darf sich jedenfalls Mitarbeiter des Jahres nennen.😂
ja genau
viaggio interessante forse non il cibo non era interessante
How ridiculous, les than 2h of travel time in France for 400km, around 6h in Germany for 500km… a real game changer in slow travel. That is german excellence…
Im not complaining
german section is almost 800 km long
Germany and France designed their High Speed networks differently. It's as simple as that.
France was more a style of 'All roads lead to Rome', but instead of roads, we have High Speed Railway and instead of Rome - Paris. Paris is France's biggest and most important city and aglomeration at the same time. This is why France built all High Speed lines connected with the capital in one way or another.
Meanwhile Germany has multiple equally important cities and aglomerations - Berlin in the east, Hamburg in north, Munich in south and Cologne Bonn urban region in the west. They already had multiple railroad lines and thus, Germany mostly adapted the existing infrastructure to acommodate High Speed Railway.
@ germany is always right, they are always the best… Pathetic german guy
@ ok tell me why 2h for 400km in France and 6h for 800km in Germany ? 3 times more. If german railways is so good, why the différence?. Be honest not german.
Apparently, Germany does not dare to upset its best friends in the States, with their Acela being 'the slowest high-speed train service in the world' 😂
well, the TGV Frankfurt-Paris is also extremely slow between Mannheim and Forbach/Saarbruecken
406 were allowed to France
were allowed - yes; but currently the BR 406 is not allowed into France anymore
Will they be equipped with ERMTS ?
I thought they're already fitted with such and are just not certified for running on ETCS routes only in Germany.
Not certified does not mean they're not fitted with such.
what i have heard - the ICE BR 407 has ETCS installed, but lost its certification a couple of years ago
The ICE 3 Velaro D is currently being retrofitted with ETCS baseline version 3. From December 2026, when Stuttgart 21 enters service, ETCS for trains to, from and via Stuttgart will be required to be equipped with ETCS baseline version 3. All ICE 3 Velaro D trainsets must have been adapted and certified by then.
The dining car has been downgraded to a Bistro 😕
not worth it eating there - just convenience food
@@doc7austin It's not so bad. Convenience doesn't mean it's lower quality. At French TGV, the bar is worse and more expensive.
@@doc7austinwell neither at the "Bordrestaurant" my friend. I have ordered a "Currywurst and Pommes" from an ICE 4 "Bordrestaurant" and guess what, the moment I saw them put the sauce and the potato fries into the microwave, I knew that would like a horror movie. What a pity since I have to pay around 14€ (with a Still water) and many said that it's good. So in conclusion, find a "Bordrestaurant" that "cook" the dishes sounds more and more impossible these days.