Raiding Numbers in WoW..
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- Опубликовано: 6 май 2024
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Nobody wants to do a weekly 20 man raid, get 3 world buffs for a chance at +1 spell power upgrade.
True the ST gear hardly being a upgrade sucks ass
Yep; outside of parsing I'm running ST to help casuals and trinkets Ill never use lol
Yup
and yet everyone does 10x 10min daily on cata?
Parsing😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
SoD is great and the levelling takes me back to feeling like I'm playing an actual MMO, however, raiding and end game is heavily gatekept, toxic and overly time consuming, especially when your class can be made obsolete come the next phase due to the approach modern players have to raiding. (honestly, the community confuses me, everyone complains about how streamlined retail is yet streamline every lil aspect in SoD.)
Its true, it would be nice if future mmos could go a different route. It should be possible even for solo player or slow players to achieve what they want. That doesnt mean it has to be easy.
Lol facts, the community can be confusing af. Like when classic came out, all the players being all "this is how questing should be" but then download questie and all the add-ons to autopilot through questing while waiting in line for mob spawns. Blew me away, I can get behind the old school aspects but if we're just making it into retail I see no point in not playing retail instead. No addons would have been a cool classic test.
Yeah some people dont want to play a job...we want to play a game....logs and gatekeeping is why the weirdos cant fill a 20 man with any efficiency. More people dont want completely min/max to the degree that is meta to clear piss easy content. Sure, be enchanted and have close to pre-raid bis, but this shit is ridiculous.
People complaining about gatekeepers just need to join a damn guild. Problem solved
Comments like this confuse the fuck out of me it’s like people completely forget you can’t even raid in original classic if you’re not a warrior
I still raid, but i think the 20man is the problem.... we had a friend only guild with the 10man raids, now we have a bunch of randos (not saying they suck) but the chemistry with irl friends playing is gone,,,
Make new friends
@@Overdozeme No I'm good.
i'm lucky enough to have a large enough guild but we also struggled and had to merge, but i have a feeling now i have 2 games to play for which i'm giga hypped, with sod being the "job" part of the game and cata being the fun/fast part ('i dont play retail but might with panda remix and tww but still have to try that)
True...
@@josephl9931 then don’t complain if you don’t want to adapt 🤡
As a dad, it’s way harder to pull away from my family for 2 hours (Sunken Temple) in the evening than it is to sneak away for 30 min (BFD and Gnomer).
Yeah I reluctantly canceled my sub yesterday. Phase 1 had me back after 10 years. The content was so easily digested. Players everywhere LFG. Now I jump on and can’t get the ball rolling on nothing because I have a family and everything takes much more time than I’m willing to spare 😢
@@sippinthat40yeah but thats not problem with game. Its you.
@@jakubpelikan2393 very true, it is my own problem, my own problem that was non existent during p1.
@@jakubpelikan2393 no it isn't. This is 2024 not 2004. Those time consuming MMOs are all dead. I can easily keep up with everything on retail while having a full time job.
@@jakubpelikan2393 well that's oversimplified way of looking at it. Player problems become game problems too. If you can't spend 2-3 hours raiding, you quit. Those who stay now have to wait much longer to get a group together. When it takes 2-3x times longer to get a group together and world is half abandoned it becomes game problem.
As someone who raided a lot in phase 1 and 2, I quit for the following reasons in phase 3: 10->20 raids (hated it), being stuck playing the same spec for 2 phases and phase 3 not changing that, blizzard's insistence on increasing the difficulty of raids. To me phase 1/bfd was peak fun for SOD; 10 friends, 25-30 mins and just pumping and blasting.
I quit because pvp sucked, and the raids were continuing to be too easy. Heading to cata now.
I feel u, sod was a game to play with friends and because of these losers on reddit they made it more difficult.
The problem isn't 20 man raiding or a weekly lockout, but supplanting the activeness of the 10man/3day structure. In other words P3 is literally less raiding for worst rewards in a format that is more rigid for raid rosters and harder to sustain for alts. The whole phase would have been infinitely better had incursions just been 10 man raiding content that rotated every 3 day lockout to different zones/bosses/loot.
you just found out what raid logging is I guess? classic/sod is dogshit outside of the few hours a week you raid, end of story.
10man 3day lockout was so fun, 20man 7day lockout ruined sod raiding for me and my guild period!
Ten man is awesome, the 3 day lockouts though nah. I'd rather do a longer raid once a week.
@@chipchippahson so your logic is selfish, stop everyone else's fun because you cannot do it twice a week , you realise you don't have to do it twice right? And it's seasonal so your not going to fall behind. Gatekeeper
@@bonsai8493 Bro you're acting like a simple, nice rebuttal to YOUR OPINION with MY OPINION was something rude and aggressive. Stop acting like a shut in weirdo and over reacting to someone simply replying to you. Also how is me saying something I like selfish, BUT YOU DOING THE SAME THING ISN'T. Grow up and stop acting weird.
@@chipchippahson because his opinion doesnt take away anything from people who dont share his opinion. what you said is a detriment to people who dont share your opinion. its not hard to see the diff, youre just being combative on purpose XD he gave an actual rebuttal not ad hominem like you. looks like someone else should be doing the growing up man XD. (BTW i dont have an opinion on the subject myself since i dont play sod, im just pointing out the hypocrisy and which speaker im more willing to listen to)
@@metaslavegaming9075 I'm the one being combative? Bro did you just log onto another account trying to be someone else? He CLEARLY was the aggressive one from the get go. I simply typed "Ten man is awesome, the 3 day lockouts though nah. I'd rather do a longer raid once a week", to which he proceeded to go off on a tangent hurling slurs at me calling me selfish and a gatekeeper etc. like a weirdo. It is CLEAR AS DAY he was the aggressor there, that isn't even an opinion. He didn't give a rebuttal, I DID. My original response was a rebuttal, his was a kid throwing a tantrum because someone else thinks differently and stated one harmless sentence. HE was the one using ad hominem, not me. Also what I said takes nothing away from ANYONE, nor is it a detriment it's an OPINION of what I like, just like it's an OPINION of what he likes. I'm not a dev changing things in the game, and me sharing the opinion of wanting to raid once a week to save time instead of 2-3 times (which a ton of people share the same opinion) to be efficient is nothing new. SIT. DOWN.
I like how Xaryu has to walk on eggshells when talking about the decline of SoD and the “mistakes” done by devs. He knows he can’t bite the hand that feeds him.
I think Incursions pushed a lot of people away from the game. Absolute braindead content (New World chest runs anybody?!?!) , kills all my willpower to be out in the world making gold or leveling alts. Incursions can not stay for 50-60.
They aren't that bad on PVE servers just a bit boring and monotonous (but I mean so are most farms) however on PVP servers the experience is very bad. Just constant ganking and griefing. Probably some of the most toxic behavior I've experienced in WoW. I have a warlock on Lone Wolf stuck at 40 because 2 of the runes are in Ashenvale incursions and every time I go in there I am sitting on a rezz timer after 5 minutes. Ended up leveling a lock on Wild Growth instead.
My guild disbanded because of P3, the raid is way too long and the amount of trash is ridiculous. We cleared it twice and decided it wasn't for us anymore. Personally, none of the content in P3 was appealing, there was just too much to do man, where's my Season of Dads? I don't want to rep farm, get WB, farm dungeons, PVP, get runes, farm gold, get consumes, level profs, etc. All this for minor upgrades that won't mean anything in phase 4.
Worst is if they had just gone to level 60 we would still be playing.
So what do you wanna do then???
@@niklaslarsen1992 The problem was more that it would all be irrelevant soon with P4. Also, this phase was a full time job, there was no way I had time to level my alts
So you just dont want to play game. Sorry but you having no time to play game is like you own problem.
@@jakubpelikan2393 I was playing for 80+ hours per week lol. The point is more that it all felt irrelevant to do all this at level 50, blizzard should have skipped this phase entirely and gone to level 60
@@Stevanized wow has always been a full time job.. Not once have it been anything else than a grindfest
Cata was where I left originally. I still feel the same way
cata is actually fun :)
@@user-hp8jn2ur8n no its not lmfao, buying into streamer hype is laughable
The constant leveling>endgame>leveling repeat format is fatiguing and lowers reward permanence. The tiers being split by level instead of item value also means that every phase effectively has a hard gear reset, with only a couple pieces carrying forward. SoD has a lot of quit flashpoints, in ways that other versions of WoW simply don't. There was also the change from 10m to 20m raid sizes, and the vibe is just really different between the two raid sizes. I know personally, moving up to 20m raid sizes from 10 pretty much killed my desire to bother raiding, and Classic is pretty much a raid or quit game. Been there done that with guild merging drama in 2019, not gonna put myself through it again.
thats why wow is a fraction of the game it was and is dying sub numbers wise
The only problem is that there isn't enough open world content. Once it turns into raid logging a lot of people don't want to do it anymore. Personally I find that I don't have as much fun doing the raids and dungeon spamming anymore. So I turned to something that I haven't done a lot; PvP. Except SoD PvP is its own problem but when you have people wanting to be finished with the content and seeing it as a chore will tend to get people to behave and treat it like its a chore and avoid it.
thing is there's no PvP content in SOD. There's no arenas or rated battlegrounds.
Theres less chores on retail now, you can raid, m+, pvp, old raids etc whatever your thing is without doing world quests and other chores.
and PVPers can do Battleground Blitz for Vault cap... next season it'll be gone. I just think they need to do something about Bloody Tokens and Air Drop packages because Alliance on my server gets them every single damn time. I know I have a few on both factions, I go on my Night Elf FREE, go on my Orc..... Why boether. They have to make PVP gear so you just Que up and get it, I haven't talked to a single person who wants to do World PVP to gear because it's just a pain in the ass.
@@Kanoog who even needs to do world PvP to get bloody tokens? lol you can do world quests and just farm disturbed dirts.
Social aspect is gone in retail which kind of makes it boring to play.
Idk, seems like in p3 no one is raiding BFD or Gnomer anymore. As opposed to P2 when everyone was running both. I think there's more to it
maybe because most everyone already get the gear?
What's the point in doing Gnomer if Incursions are quicker and give you easy preraid gear with the rep
You can still find groups
I'm running old raid for help guild alt, found a guild
ST is 100% still too hard for the average classic player and I didn't even realise this until a few hours ago, when I raided for the first time on my alt today.
My main is in sub 50 min guild runs every week and bosses feel hella fun and easy.
Joined a pug day before raid reset on my first alt, half the players didn't have world buffs, half of those didn't have the bis runes, and we killed 2nd boss with 5 players left, wiped 4 times on the third boss and disbanded on the 4th boss.
The sod devs need to face the fact that the average classic players a complete mouth breather and needs to factor that into every raid they make for SOD
Well, here's the thing, you shouldnt have to have all fucking world buffs and 30 different potions to be able to keep up with everybody else. This system is trash and needs to be removed. I think the moron mouth breathers are people that think this is a good thing for the game. Not everyone has hours upon hours to get all this shit.
they shouldnt have to cater to people who are completely brainless for raiding. People should be realize they need to get their runes, maybe grab at least the new world buff, and the raid is not even that hard. If you want to have your hand hold there is classic era.
@@wolfieesan-mt4pmtbf the raids shouldn't be balanced around expecting people to be full consume full world buff either. Especially when the world buffs combined for most classes more then double your DPS.
@@venumus1 oh no I agree and that’s not was I was saying at all. My main point was I think where the bosses are now is pretty balanced even without WB, but designing the raids for people who aren’t even getting the new runes would be ridiculous
As someone who quit in p3, i largely quit due to my guild demanding too much from me. I dont want to be getting world buffs, i'll bring consumes, and get my gear sorted decently, but i just cba with all the marginal stuff. I just wanna show up and have fun. And i understand that they should bring the person that did put in the effort instead of me.
I think you are right on the money when you said people tryed it and now some are moving on. It's a natural consequence of a large influx.
The 20man thing was not an issue for me, i like 20 mans better if i had to choose
This is me. I wish it was one difficulty, more people, and just chill. The challenge and improve for groups comes in clear times. But even a shitty comp group should be able to reasonably finish.
World Buffs aren't marginal and that's the problem. You could show up in crap gear with all the world buffs and likely do better DPS than someone in BIS with no world buffs. They need to design raids without the need for world buffs. Sitting around a damn flower with 10 other people hoping you can click it in time feels ridiculous. Oh no better set my timer so I can time my click perfectly!
@@BrianKern That's true, thinking about it im not sure what world buffs actually contribute to in the game. It's not adding to the fun so perhaps it's just a way to keep people stuck infront of their pc and let other players exclude the ones who didn't.
For me, it's the parse culture and how punishing it can be right now. If your comp is off, speed is off, have one wipe and lose wb's, etc., it just feels bad. Yes, this existed in original Classic, but SoD adds in SUPER OP consumes, buffs, gear that did not exist in Classic, which compounds the issue. It gets to the point where the only way to compete (not excel) is to be fully bis geared, bis consumed, bis comped. Knowing that your personal execution is very good, that you're hitting all the correct buttons at the correct time, and not missing a beat...and then getting middling parses because someone else executed worse, but had a perfect speed comp so their raw numbers were just better, that's gross. Doesn't feel like this is as big an issue in other expansions. Basically just want to take a break until next phase, and hope things get better, or retire altogether and find a different version to play.
@1337Swiper Lol, say that to the elitist moron whinners that think they are better than everyone else
@1337Swiperbut people do and its what drives people away.
@1337Swiper You would be surprised at how hardcore the Tetris scene can be
It's always a multitude of issues culminating. That being said SoD deviated from vanilla in some big ways (one example):
No continuous 1-60 lvl phase --> alt friendliness.
Alt friendliness is something that developed in modern WoW over time as people had more and more time on their hands to play more and more alts. So for many it has become a normal thing to be able to play multiple chars at the same time and the game is expected to support that.
This in return requires catch up mechanics to be rampant (quick lvling, quick gearing, low amounts of long grinds, short and quick navigation).
Now you can see that within those requirements SoD already fails because they added some vanilla style gameplay (long rune questlines, lots of travel).
Those work in a vanilla environment where youre not expected to lvl multiple characters in rapid fashion. So theres a lot of conflict inside the game from a game design perspective.
I believe they should stay much closer to vanilla game design in the future and enhance classic game design rather than trying to incorporate modern game design features that are not required for a game where the incentive is to start fresh over and over again with a couple years in between.
I quit this phase. Wasn’t having fun. I don’t have a lot of time to play, and the time I do have I want to enjoy playing. SoD has felt like a job more than it being fun, there’s no enjoyment in lvling, everyone just speeds to max lvl so they don’t miss a raid lockout, it just hasn’t been fun since phase 1. The devs were way more involved early phases, so many runes are insane farms that aren’t even fun to do, but have to be done in order to properly “parse” in a raid. Idk, just comes down to not having fun while i’m playing. I’ll miss wow, but tired of making excuses for poor game design and wasted time. I’ll be playing BG3 and helldivers in the small gaming windows I have going forward. Love the content Xar, you the man
I think adding mojo on top of sunflower buff is just another 2 chores people feel overwhelmed to get
Raid participation down on SoD because of incursions and raid size. Hear me out.
Less people are making alts because incursions is the go-to levelling experience, if you want to level you pretty much need to be doing incursions or your missing out on the best way to level. If you want to incursion you need to make/join a group and many times requires you to also have an addon. Now while this might seem easy, its far more steps than just following some levelling addon blindly, or, flying out to a zone and picking up quests and following the indicator on the map that tells you where to go.
Because of this people are not bothering to level at all as incursions aren't really AFKable and then by the time you get to max level the effort required to get into a pug raid which in with pugs seems to usually not even result in a full clear this is leaving many people to just say "why bother" and raid log their mains only.
Feel the same way I do about retail right now, every patch feels like it invalidates the previous one. Waiting till 60 to play again but if they are gonna drip feed content with all the catch-up every patch then i'm gonna dip pretty quickly.
What I liked about classic and tbc was the natural progression of Levelling>Dungeons/attunments>MC>BWL>etc etc and a new player like me back then would go through that exact same progression path even if I started 9 months later than someone in AQ.
Now they are so desperate to skip the entire game for players and get everyone into the latest thing, more xp buffs, incursions, level boosts and as someone who like to invest a lot of time into a game it makes me feel like i'm just being inefficient by playing the game, why waste hours every week to level or do a raid when I know next patch it's gonna be pointless.
most of the people i know went back to retail , or a diff game entirely
One thing about the SoD numbers: I think faaar less players are raiding on multiple characters compared to Phase 2 and definitely Phase 1. Raider numbers for those phases would have been inflated because of all the alts so while I think phase 3 has definitely dipped, it's not as drastic as these numbers show.
My guild had 5 healthy 10 man teams in phase 2. Now we have 1 semi consistent 20 man team and the rest are struggling to pug and fill slots. Raider population has definitely decreased since p3 launch, there were way more groups forming and players raiding throughout p2.
I mean he has a point p1 I ran on 3 chars phase 2 I ran on 2 chars P3 I'm doing 1 char
@@oldskooplayasame here went from 5 in p1 to 2 with occasional pugs on the 3rd p2 now I only have the one max lvl in p3 so much bullshit involved in lvling alts between being damn near required to run profs being encouraged to not have gathering profs and the days of play time required to get runes ontop of lvling. With some classes being more tedious for the runes then others like pallys locks and mages
Its become so much less accessible as the phases continue. P1 you could hop on and pug a BFD during peak hours in like 10 min, minimal gatekeeping, minimal consumes/required gold meant that you didn't have to grind to stay afloat, and if you saw a new class/build that looked sick you could make an alt and be ready to raid in pre-bis in a few days. By p3 pugging a good raid is almost impossible, most runs are guild runs, for good reason, but this osctracizes players who liked the freedom to hop on and pug, and for many classes the weekly consumes/enchants required to perform well are simply monetarily difficult to keep up with. Also it is much more difficult to have alts. Ironically, a lot of the problems could be fixed by adding redundancy to buffs (have 2 classes bring each buff so that people looking to stack buffs for optimal comps would be gatekeeping less, having less random consumes/world buffs required to do well...but at that point we might as well play Cata or retail. Having to get Firewater, Shadow Oil, Strength Flask, Mojo Flask, Thistle Tea, Dragon Chili, Mongoose Flask, Winter Squid, 3 world buffs and farm 30 of WO spam/50 arena runs for pre-bis which is a chore and not engaging/different whatsoever for a raid not even level 60 when I will be able to log into Wrath and immediately raid just isn't worth it. Vanilla/Classic weren't classic because of world buffs, endless grinding etc...they were amazing because of the incredible first experience, meeting people who were also as in awe, etc. Even classic had some magic because while a lot of people had done it before, it was still the first nostalgia trip. Honestly I don't know what the answer is, but it is unsurprising that SOD is falling off.
It’s perfectly possible to play Retail slowly; peer pressure is what makes it a fast paced game. If peer pressure makes someone play it faster than they’re comfortable with, they need better friends, not a better game.
SOD was really fun in phase 1. Phase 2 came out I quit after a week and everybody I know quit too. I can't even imagine going back to SOD.
The entire premise behind SoD was interesting, but not what people actually wanted. If I can sum it up, it's 1) runes that are just the level tier talent system from retail a few years back, 2) structured pvp events, and 3) raids.
1. This seemed interesting at first, but overall it is less fun than I would have imagined. I would have rather seen just basic class balancing fixes and enabling the meme specs to not be meme specs, like the mega patch we never got because they put effort into TBC.
2. This was largely okay, but it seemingly took a decent amount of effort and was likely not worth the payoff. Not worth the opportunity cost.
3. I think the raids were completely unnecessary. The level capping was cool in the beta without raids. I would have been happy with just doing the dungeons. I did not want a lvl 30 "endgame" raid. I'm fine with additional endgame content at 60, but not during leveling. Remove the raids and shorten the phases.
This is like a 4th go around for a lot of players. First was Vanilla, 2nd was years of private servers, 3rd was classic and now 4th for SoD. Even with fresh content I think that besides the "Hardcore Andy's" I think people are burnt out. The nostalgia just isn't there anymore.
@xaryu I think its people doing a lot of cata prep. SoD raiders prepping for cata and wotlk raiders playing alts for cata or just burnt out and taking it slow until cata, or they quit entirely because they dont wanna play cata. (edit:) oh you and some chatters mentioned the cata influence right after i posted this lol.
The roster boss is by far the toughest part of mythic raiding on retail; having a smaller player pool in SoD means this issue would be even worse there. The difficulty of finding more players that can fit the same schedule increases exponentially with more players, not linearly.
Our raid group took up a different raid schedule that seems to help us.. We raid the last day of the lockout of a week and the first day of the next lockout giving us almost 2 weeks of downtime. I was against it at first but it's honestly it's really enjoyable.
You have to know every fight and people checking logs
It's just an annoying population. It's either raid comps demanding to know what your workout routine, diet, and monthly income is... or it's an "up and coming" guild led by some guy that logs on once a week at 2 AM on a Sunday. I failed to find middle ground, I tried.
cause thats all gaming is nowadays, either hyper efficient or complete lack of care that end up being a burden on groups in a multiplayer game cause they dont give 2 shits to put in an ounce of effort.
Never thought I would live to see the day when Blizzard copies “Private Servers” and made their own. One big problem is PS are free to play and blizzard’s servers are locked behind a subscription.
does the SOD dip account for the fact that the raid lockout changed from 3 days to weekly?
It has nothing to do with 20 man raid. Imho its just way harder to get upgrades and many ST items just dont feel as good because you can get stuff that is on par in instances since they upgraded instance loot. P3 just doesnt feel good in general. Dont think the raid is too cool. It was kinda fund the first times but it wears out because there is just soo much trash (and I have a grp that clears under 1h). Incursions were kinda an fail with how much xp they gave/give. They couldve just gave us a mega xp buff for the outter world - its hard to believe they didnt anticipate the impact of incursions.
I think, while I love SoD, that the raiding numbers are nowhere near reflective of the actual playerbase. SoD is alt central. At the bare minimum, I'd say you need to cut the number in half to get a closer estimate.
@1337SwiperThey just wanna make sure people know what they're doing so they don't spend all night in the raid. A few people not knowing the fights can lead to the raid taking twice as long. That being said, it is annoying that it's almost impossible for me to find a decent pug on my 93 parsing rogue tank simply because other tanks have better AOE threat and make things easier for casual groups, specifically on ONE BOSS, eranikus.
You think people only have alts in SOD? lol
Here's some more numbers. Me and my 2 friends all quit in phase 3. So us and our alts no longer raiding. I feel bad for their 5 interns trying to run all versions of wow at once.
How is it alt central? How many people want to grind reputations and the same rune fetch quests over and over again? P1 was for sure alt friendly
@1337Swiperyou are correct, it’s incredibly easy. The issue is the playerbase cannot consistently perform to the level they need to for this easy content.
more leaks?? was fascinating getting to see the numbers before
New name idea "Season 1 of Discovery"
MoP Remix is around the corner, Pvp Balances just released today with a new questline/Intro to The War Within, Cata Pre-patch dropped last week. Season 4 Dragonflight just got released 2 weeks ago. SoD S3 has been out for a decent amount of time and everyone has tasted the raid at least once by now. There is content dropping weekly on 3 different versions of WoW and that's why. It's insane that anyone would come to any other conclusion for the drop...
yup i was just logging in to do weekly raids and now i dont even want to do that.
Cata is gonna be bigger than people think dude. Class design is at its best.
Saying that the SOD devs have tested anything is blasphemy. We are all paying to test their game.
What if the store used to carry suits ties and pants? But over the years enough new customers asked for different things and now the store no longer carries those items? Why should I have to find a new store, when they used to be my favorite and supply what I was looking for but now only cater to new customers and the demands they made? I like some of the new things they carry, I just want them to also think about what made them a popular store in the first place.
SOD is fun. But to be honest many in my guild are already on a break now, because the raid loot in phase 3 is just not fantastic. They don’t want to spend 100g (and farm that gold after) to raid and only get a slight upgrade, maybe.
And if you do multiple alts like in phase 1-2 then it’s even more “work” for only slight upgrades.
It’s the fact that there’s so many different types of wow, one gets boring and then the other pops up again. I used to be a classic Andy because retail just pissed me off but honestly I’m swapping back and forth because it’s just more fun for me. Also a new xpac coming out so stuff will go down in classic and vice versa
I think one of the main reasons for the decline in activity overall is that alot of people like myself are waiting for the actual end-game at level 60, I loved SoD in p1 because of the freshness of things and the discovery, both p2 and p3 just feels like filler in wait for the actual content.. Dunno, might be just me thinking like this 🤷🏻
vanilla style raiding should have the devs looking at making the raids smaller, and changing them enough so that its still a quick experience you can do while drunk with your buddies. just keep it fresh.
The issue with nostalgia glasses is that you forget how annoying and tedious a lot of stuff used to be. The marathon simulator of SOD season 1 should have been a reminder...lol
People dont know what they want, they'll literally always bitch and cry, theres nothing that'll make these types of people enjoy anything. They liked when they were 13 in TBC coming home from school and playing for 6 hours, thats it. They keep playing cause its the same shit, its familiar and they hate change. If devs gave them EXACTLY what they wanted they'd still find something to bitch about lmfao. They are insufferable.
For me honestly, SoD became classic WoW (2019) with extra chores. Not to mention the super toxic endgame with raids and some specs not even given a chance.
My Guild of 20 yr vets gave up BC we couldn't fill a 20 raid with guildies and didn't want to deal with pugs.
It would be nice to have a scaling raid.. 10 man that scales with more players in raid.. like if there's 15 u get extra loot or w.e
Just do not wanna raid anymore, cause of all dickheads in the game.. HR, Parse99, Hurry hurry,WB, cons,enchants,Logs.. Remember guys.. It is still a game, and we should have fun.. Now it is like work
Then make your own group, or take the time to get better gear. No one wants to carry someone grey parsing.
@Overdozeme the fact that you are so blind by your way of playing that you cannot see that it is hurting the game is pretty sad. Sure they could make their own group but that isn’t the point. Not that explaining it would actually clear that up for you. But tribalists are gonna be tribalists so you are free to continue giving players the incentive they need to quit the game and boost the numbers of other games that have a better community. It’s not like WoW doesn’t have legitimate competition these days anyway.
@@zedorian6547 I personally don’t care if they losing numbers, I enjoy the game personally. And I’m pretty sure I’m not the only one.
@@Overdozemeto the point where the game is dead due to toxic players like yourself making a big deal on parses for a lvl up raid and then proceed to blame the game devs for this SMH LOL OK MR 99 PARSER ON A LVL UP RAID 😂
Imagine if they made 40 man raids like original era Lmao
They should make a progression server one that resets after wrarh
Heya Xaryu, i know you used to focus really hard on PVP and i think I've only seen you get into PVE when classic/hardcore etc came out. Have you played any PVE in dragonflight? If you have, how did you enjoy it compared to classic PVE?
world buffs are a worse chore than island expeditions. the parse culture is still there.
Wrath numbers were updated. Down to 87000.
It's getting tough to raid with all this heat, though there are half as many lockouts. It's easier to not play when you only log in once a week. There's nothing to farm for. ST is definitely harder than the earlier ones.
"The juice isn't worth the squeenze." I quit after the first week of ST. The writing isa on the wall. Consumes, world buffs, waiting for raid to form and wipes all for a moderate upgrade or no loot at all. It was obvious from day 1 that the loot wasn't good and there wasn't loot propotional to the increase in raid size. It wasn't fun anymore and I think a lot of people are clearly feeling that way.
For a small group of friends 10 mans were great to form and raid lead. We'd have 6-10 people at every raid and the rest pugs. 20 mans just seem tiresome at this point to fill and the length of the raid makes it more intimidating. It's one hell of a commitment and the IncurFlation + minor gear upgrades were the cherry on top for our crew.
IMO it’s the weekly lockout paired with super minimal upgrades on the raid gear. Weekly lockout drives less participation throughout the week and people just decide not to come back with less involvement. +1 spellpower maybe from a piece of gear feels really bad. Power creep is a big driving factor in people wanting to come back and when you can do the same in gnomer gear vs. ST gear a lot of people say what’s the point. This paired with the usual decline in player interest throughout an expansion hurts. I personally still enjoy raiding, but I see why others don’t or can’t.
I played and raided in p1 & p2, had to start p3 a week late but ended not playing at all. when I saw everyone powerleveling with the new event it took away all my motivation. The raid also looked too difficult, especially with the bosses having way too much health. I think gnomer was perfect in difficulty. I do also think that with every update SOD starts looking more like retail- rather than classic+.
ST is about as easy as Gnomer now it just takes a lot longer due to trash + more bosses.
It’s a lot of different things. SoD P3 has been so mis managed, causing people to leave. They’ve also increased the difficulty of the raid content every single phase, making it less accessible for all players (unlike BFD)
Which, would be fine, except for the fact that they gave us less time to clear P2 content then they gave us for P1, which brings me back to the mis management of SoD.
People play Classic WoW because it’s an accessible social experience with rewards that feel impactful. Making the game sweatier is making the game less accessible, meaning the audience is going to dwindle and dwindle more each time they come out with content that is not accessible. It’s why P1 thrived so much.
The last point which is a tie into the accessibility would be, they gave us 10 weeks for P1. 10 WEEKS. Easy content, SUPER alt friendly, very chill and ACCESSIBLE for EVERYONE to enjoy. P2 comes out, MASSIVE difficulty spike with Gnomer (last two bosses specifically) then they give us 8 weeks for P2. TWO WEEKS shorter than P1, and was OBJECTIVELY more difficult to clear the raid. What happened when P3 came out? You guessed it, an even LESS accessible raid for people to look forward to, not to mention the Incursions (silly silly Lizard mistake) so what is the player base supposed to do??
(Sorry for the typos, mis punctuations, not proofreading this)
Thanks Xaryu
p3 can be seen retail through the event lvl 50 in 6 hours. with lvl 50 set of 6 for 10g this means that all 5 inis BRD Mara... have become completely uninteresting and the loot in the ST is not really an upgrade there is not even a mage heal set
You realize the emerald warden set is just gnomer equivalent with a little more stamina. Like not a single emerald piece was an upgrade over gnomer gear on my hunter
Yeah but for all ohter classes do u think ST set for melee hunter is better 😂
maybe its just me, but after 2 phases of SOD i was done. It had nothing to do with the raid size, for me suprisingly it was the seasonal nature of the game mode. When i play an mmo i dont want to have to consider the game or phase ending, at least as rapidly as it does in SoD.
Sunken Temple made me quit. I don’t want to get raid buffs and consumes anymore as a dad. And I don’t want to raid for 2 hours.
The issue is several items that are bis are Boe. Due to the crazy inflation due to the incursions you are required to gold farm forever to even get the items when truly bis items should just solely come from the raid. I have no desire to gold farm
They should've kept 10 man raids with a weekly lockout. Less people to compete with gear, everyone gets more loot, and less of a chore to pug. There is everything positive about 10 mans, only reason people didn't like 10 man before was because of the 3 day lockout along with 2 other alts you would be raiding 9 times in 1 week.
If the government regulated driving speed limits by public vote, then we'd all be dead.
I can say, 20 man raid size killed our guild and made me quit. Had fun in P1 and 2, but P3 was the nail in the coffin for me/us. Back to retail doing M+. I just can't bare more than 10 people anymore.
Its hard playing against shamans.
20 man raids killed my 10 man friend group that played a lot up to phase 3. I think they should of given us the choice of a 10 vs 20 man difficulty
Gave up on ST after 2 lockouts i just cbf doing all the trash for crappy loot
- Go back to 10 mans
- Make raid quicker with less trash
- Remove world buffs
- Make getting runes on alts quicker/easier
SoD should stay in it's lane. SoD should be casual, quick, easy, alt friendly.
The SoD numbers are going to continue to decline as Blizzard pumps out other great content like MoP remix, Cata classic, and War Within.
- Go back to 40 man raids
- Make raids longer and more difficult, not a face roll
at this point idk if classic players play a game for fun or like a job
@@maynardewm Do you know how difficult it is to organize 40 player raids?
If you want more challenging content, play Cata classic or War Within. The heroic/mythic dungeons and raids there are a blast
The problem with ST is the gear. Most classes only care to get their 3set bonus and maybe an off piece or two. Most of our BiS items are from BoEs or other areas like Professions. There really isn't an incentive to do the raid once you get your 3set.
People had 2 lockout choice to raid.
They conditioned everyone for 10 man raids so in P1 and P2, guilds were just big enough to fill out a roster with maybe a couple pugs. Now they're asking guilds that could muster up 8 players to find 12 randoms to fill out the raid. 8 out of 20 members being in a guild is no longer playing with the homies, you're playing in a pug.
If this is the number of raids logged, wouldn't it just make sense that, assuming the player population stays static, the number of raids would look like exactly 50% of the previous phases because it takes 20 people per raid log instead of 10? Two raids logged in previous phases equal one raid log of the current phase. Plus, the higher the character levels, the fewer alts people will raid on.
P3 suck server in europe have medium state now P2 have high or full. Pvp is not great also game looks more like retail... Overall Sod is bad just Classic plus retail abilities. Many people back to Era afking in orgrimmar bcs Sod going to wrong direction
Also retail isnt necessarily bad, and neither is Cata pre-patch either.
Blizzard not listening to and adapting to the consumer has always been their downfall.
What I absolute DESPISE about sod is the alt fiesta it wants to be. I play classic and SoD to have a MAIN but apparently they want you to have alts
For me it’s that I’ve learned progression gets wiped out with the next phase. Feeling closer to retail where you play just the latest patch. Prior efforts mean next to nothing. Why raid ST when the gear is reset next Tuesday and incursion will hand you a full set.
The sweats drove the casual player base away. Doesn’t surprise me at all considering most the hype left with the casuals.
I think a lot of the playerbase wanted classic vanilla with a tiny bit of sprinkles. It satrted out that way but now by p3 Its a hot fudge sundae with every topping imaginable and a tiny bit of vanilla ice cream. The game has changed so much from classic you cant really call it classic+ anymore.
Raid amount is Ganna go down 2x10=20 . Should be half the amount of raids
Your final message is so true. It's tiresome hearing the same complaints to retail for 20 years. People don't get that things are the way they are for a reason and no they won't suddenly go back to being like Vanilla, TBC or WotLK and it's been so long. There's a whole new generation that started playing in Pandaria, in WoD or even later that prefer some things as they are.
Parsing is literally the only thing to do in this phase
Imagine parsing in SoD😂😂😂😂 like wtf is wrong with you
i just have more fun on cata with my mage vs sod, and trust me, i'm i giga sucker for classic classic and SOD is the best, but i feel like (and they have to some point) should make sod more dynamic ni terms of gameplay, or perhaps i should go back to hot streak on my sod mage vs frost firefrostbold/frost/fire spec, maybe they should up mage ?
Classic should be free2play
Retail should be the only monthly subbed version. Would cause devs to try harder in order to keep subs.
Agreed
The problem with free to play plus skins or even the current skins cash shop is the point of a rpg/mmo is to get the cool gear. So by selling the coolest gear it dis incentivize playing the game.
I haven't raided at all in P3. the week one heroic mythic ultra difficulty made me stay away even after nerfs. Making it impossible tilts everyone into gatekeep and log check even more. I'd rather just quest and do dungeons.
That consumer is kind of how classic wow when it was retail (What do we call that, vanilla?) turned into todays retail though.. If there are enough of that consumer, they change the product >.
I literally can’t raid even if I want to now, the free transfers decimated the population number on My server and my entire guild quit. It’s now impossible to find group in the time frame that I play. (Late nights)
Personally, I'm not too excited about raiding ST. The raid has too much trash, it's quite a slog. I'm a classic Andy but Im also sick of world buffs, and if I'm not going to parse I just don't want to play. And thats just the two most annoying things there are many little ones like the fact that we spend time an energy crafting the profession epics that won't even work next phase.
I left WoW Classic when Cata was announced.
I was hoping they would release new Warth content.(There was rumors that they were going to release new content that they did not release at the time.)
They just want to make money with old content and play with our old times.
In short, people are no longer stupid.
Raid size/weekly lockout and “wealth gap”. I’m so far behind on gold that I just gave up. If I can’t afford my consumes, I’ll just go without them. My shiny new gear has P2 enchants on it, because I don’t have 300g to drop on a single enchant. This means I’m raid logging. I’ve been online under 4hr in the last 2 weeks, just long enough to raid, get WB again and buy consumes.
Incursions are still well over 100g an hour. You are just a moron bud
I can not explain how many friends I would of been able to get into WOW without it being $15 a month a lot of people just don't think paying monthly to play one game is worth it. The price needs to be decreased at the min and personally would love to see it eliminated and replaced by a premium membership that grants in game rewards and have the game free to play which would bring many more into to play and try the game and lead to them making more in micro-transactions/Premium memberships. Just my thoughts..
When it was 10 man raiding i raided on 4 chars. Now with 20 man i raid on 1 main char and occasionally on an alt. Max 1.5 raids pr. Lockout against garanteed 4. Theres the difference for you right there.