It makes a bit more sense when you consider that bleeding now bypasses energy shield once applied. If it didn't have that condition, bleeding would make energy shield entirely pointless. You could even argue it makes sense from an "immersion" angle: My energy shield is not my body, how could I bleed, if my body wasn't hit. (Just ignore the fact we're applying bleed to skeletons, ghosts, and rock golems btw 😅) I'm not saying I like it the way it is, but there seems to be a reason they did it that way. I'm also sceptical, because I don't know how pure ailment builds can exist in this setup and I play mostly those. As for "nerfs", it's impossible to say anything about balance without knowing related gems and passives, keystones etc. We'll have to see.
this is a scary change, would it break builds that only scale bleed dot ? on the other hand, it seems that bleed dmg is gonna need actual big hits, so maybe it's not as bad if the hits are actually strong enough.
@@camaradebanzani9405remember you can have two passive trees now for different skills. It should be pretty easily doable to have a hit based skill to pop energy shields and then bleed them afterwards
Seems to me like a LOT is changing wrt ailments in PoE 2. Though I confess myself rather confused by the changes to ailment application and scaling - it seems kinda like everyone is gonna be effectively making a decent ailment build, going by the changes mentioned here, simply by way of naturally scaling their hit damage. Since both the ailment damage as well as even the chance to apply it are based on the magnitude of the hit, every build should be applying strong ailments in late game just cos of getting stronger. What's to differentiate ailment builds then? What's even the point of ailments at all? I must be misunderstanding something here, cos it sounds to me like there won't be much to differentiate ailment-focused and non-ailment focused builds much, apart from a few niche combo things.
I believe BASE damage indicates its calculated from the skill gem + Weapon damage Values only. Added damage would not be counted. Increased% and multipliers% would also not be counted. So skills with an ailment will have a proportional effect from the base value, but will still have to use ailment specific multipliers to grow that portion of the damage calculation. I could be wrong, just my interpretation and how ailments / base damage works in PoE 1 and other games. From what i can tell from the video, there seems to be a threahold value pre-mitigation, calculated from the defenders side that when reached, apply ailment = Yes.
@@bmpm844 I don't think it will work like that, You will have a low effect ailment if your skill as an ailment attached to it, but will still have to spend resources on the skill tree / Gear / skills to scale them to be a major component of the build.
I definitely think its simplifying the mechanic, at least from a gearing perspective. Not saying that its a good or bad thing, but I think this version is easier to understand.
@RJMacReady1 technicaly yeah, if there is no wei4d suff ypu basicaly build for big hit beeing for attack or dot build. But outise of that all the mechanic and interaction are still as chaotic as ever
I can totally see GGG's reasoning behind this change. Current iteration of poe1 ailment builds where you hit once and run around forever trivializes boss fights and thus will NOT have a place in poe2. It goes against their whole 'meaningful and engaging combat' agenda.
Great Video and series! Please do armour soon.... ive played for years and (to me) its the most unituative mechanic in the game... i really hope theyve done something different in POE 2.
Poison doesn't stack in poe 2 unless you uses the poison flower skill that transfer all the poisons from the flowers to the target (cf the ranger gameplay preview)
Glad they're getting rid of the hilariously janky dichotomy between hit and ailment damage. I imagine extreme ailment builds will be sad that it's harder to get 100% ailment chance, but I'd note that with gems like the 50% more, they'd only need a 66% chance to inflict to reach 100%, and the gem probably increases in effectiveness over rank. What I think you'll see is that crit damage based builds will be the best for ailments, because being able to land a single massive hit will radically increase the chance to inflict and the damage of that ailment. In PoE1 that was mostly a niche of poison(daggers) and hemorrhage(guaranteed crit every 4 strikes).
Please, Non damaging ailment effects! I am confusing between Shocked ( or Electrocuted? ) and Stunned in PoE 2. Stunning makes monsters stop or stagger during the effect but Shock effect also do the same thing ( with the bonus damage of course )
This is the first video where I've just gone "wtf??" Now.. I know that I'm an idiot. I'm no great master of poe1. Sure I'm gonna like some changes and dislike others, but this one I just.. do not understand It feels like the only way to interact with ailments now is just 'stack lots of damage". Which, at a glance, seems cool.. but that means that rapid attacking builds are kind of SoL with.. any ailment now? Bleed not working on es Poison not stacking by default Is poison now chaos damage exclusive, or will any physical hit have Chance to poison too? I feel like these are overall pretty massive nerfs to the entire system. I was never any good at getting any ailment damage to work in poe1, but now that you can't even guarantee a proc.. i feel like trying to rely on the 'bonus damage to frozen/bleeding target' mods feel even worse because they are going to be very unreliable. I straight up don't understand how to really do anything with the new system anymore.. feels like unless you're doing a slam build, then you might as well pretend ailments don't exist?
its important to remember that there is no such thing as a nerf at this point. the ailments are different, but the game is built with those ailments and this system in mind. At a glance, my assumption (since their damage still doesn't stack) is that since this game is built to have much more active combat, with different skills, ailments would be more of a side factor in builds. Less "playing an ignite build" and more "keeping dot uptime with my ignite skill". As someone who likes dot skills I will probably miss my ignite arc build, but it's a different game. I wasn't expecting every build archetype to carry over/play the same anyways.
It's not all rng, you can still reach 100% chance with more chance to ignite multipliers and such. You just spec into more damage instead of chance to apply said ailments to cap it now. Also keep in mind this change also applies to enemies as well. You (on paper) won't be getting spammed by ailments anymore by random enemies grazing you with double ailment effect.
Not sure if they’re changing shock, but doesn’t this make shock insane for an ignite build? You scale damage taken and so the base ignite dps, and then you scale the ignite dps with it again…. They have to be changing shock in some way or that’s too broken lol
the screenshot of the discord messages says damage modifiers don't apply to them anymore, which could very well include damage taken modifiers. It could be something like the current games reflected damage, where ailments have their own limited rules for how to scale them
I really dislike the changes it basically says damaging ailments now suck wait for a patch in the future to make it work again. It’s all these changes sound like
➡Written guide: mobalytics.gg/poe-2/guides/mechanics ⬅
Bleeding not working on enemies with energie shield sounds like a big nerf that it didn't really need.
It makes a bit more sense when you consider that bleeding now bypasses energy shield once applied. If it didn't have that condition, bleeding would make energy shield entirely pointless. You could even argue it makes sense from an "immersion" angle: My energy shield is not my body, how could I bleed, if my body wasn't hit. (Just ignore the fact we're applying bleed to skeletons, ghosts, and rock golems btw 😅)
I'm not saying I like it the way it is, but there seems to be a reason they did it that way. I'm also sceptical, because I don't know how pure ailment builds can exist in this setup and I play mostly those.
As for "nerfs", it's impossible to say anything about balance without knowing related gems and passives, keystones etc. We'll have to see.
this is a scary change, would it break builds that only scale bleed dot ? on the other hand, it seems that bleed dmg is gonna need actual big hits, so maybe it's not as bad if the hits are actually strong enough.
Pretty sure it's to prevent people cheesing bosses
There's probably gonna be a way to circumvent that if you don't want to use another skill/weapon swap to break enemy ES.
@@camaradebanzani9405remember you can have two passive trees now for different skills. It should be pretty easily doable to have a hit based skill to pop energy shields and then bleed them afterwards
Wow this was the first one I've watched that I didn't already know the specifics on, with how closely I follow the news.
Thank you so much for making this series :)
Seems to me like a LOT is changing wrt ailments in PoE 2. Though I confess myself rather confused by the changes to ailment application and scaling - it seems kinda like everyone is gonna be effectively making a decent ailment build, going by the changes mentioned here, simply by way of naturally scaling their hit damage. Since both the ailment damage as well as even the chance to apply it are based on the magnitude of the hit, every build should be applying strong ailments in late game just cos of getting stronger. What's to differentiate ailment builds then? What's even the point of ailments at all? I must be misunderstanding something here, cos it sounds to me like there won't be much to differentiate ailment-focused and non-ailment focused builds much, apart from a few niche combo things.
I believe BASE damage indicates its calculated from the skill gem + Weapon damage Values only.
Added damage would not be counted.
Increased% and multipliers% would also not be counted.
So skills with an ailment will have a proportional effect from the base value, but will still have to use ailment specific multipliers to grow that portion of the damage calculation.
I could be wrong, just my interpretation and how ailments / base damage works in PoE 1 and other games.
From what i can tell from the video, there seems to be a threahold value pre-mitigation, calculated from the defenders side that when reached, apply ailment = Yes.
yeah, seems like one way of dumbing down the game so everyone can make "decent" ailment builds, not really a fan
@@bmpm844 I don't think it will work like that, You will have a low effect ailment if your skill as an ailment attached to it, but will still have to spend resources on the skill tree / Gear / skills to scale them to be a major component of the build.
Well thats sound bad and feels more limiting build diversity than anything while not even realy simplyfying the mechanic
I definitely think its simplifying the mechanic, at least from a gearing perspective. Not saying that its a good or bad thing, but I think this version is easier to understand.
@RJMacReady1 technicaly yeah, if there is no wei4d suff ypu basicaly build for big hit beeing for attack or dot build.
But outise of that all the mechanic and interaction are still as chaotic as ever
I can totally see GGG's reasoning behind this change. Current iteration of poe1 ailment builds where you hit once and run around forever trivializes boss fights and thus will NOT have a place in poe2. It goes against their whole 'meaningful and engaging combat' agenda.
Get to the point u deal dmg first lol
Great Video and series!
Please do armour soon.... ive played for years and (to me) its the most unituative mechanic in the game... i really hope theyve done something different in POE 2.
Poison doesn't stack in poe 2 unless you uses the poison flower skill that transfer all the poisons from the flowers to the target (cf the ranger gameplay preview)
Good stuff. I learned some new things today.
Glad they're getting rid of the hilariously janky dichotomy between hit and ailment damage. I imagine extreme ailment builds will be sad that it's harder to get 100% ailment chance, but I'd note that with gems like the 50% more, they'd only need a 66% chance to inflict to reach 100%, and the gem probably increases in effectiveness over rank.
What I think you'll see is that crit damage based builds will be the best for ailments, because being able to land a single massive hit will radically increase the chance to inflict and the damage of that ailment. In PoE1 that was mostly a niche of poison(daggers) and hemorrhage(guaranteed crit every 4 strikes).
Can you please link the discord server for POE where the devs are sharing all of this? Thanks
Christmas comes early with PoE 2!
CI stopping bleeding will be a nice option
They specifically said that ailments are not guaranteed on critical strikes anymore
They should be more likely though because of the bigger hit.
Please, Non damaging ailment effects! I am confusing between Shocked ( or Electrocuted? ) and Stunned in PoE 2. Stunning makes monsters stop or stagger during the effect but Shock effect also do the same thing ( with the bonus damage of course )
I don't think ailments needed change tbh, they weren't complicated and now having to scale hits seems to be just limiting builds diversity.
I had hoped that I misunderstood this, since it would mean what you said, limits diversity, in a non-typical way for GGG :I damn
may drop on december 6th* Not will.
is that a flail gameplay ?
No. Nothing past the templar's 3 seconds reveal from the one trailer two years ago has any flail footage in it
This is the first video where I've just gone "wtf??"
Now.. I know that I'm an idiot. I'm no great master of poe1.
Sure I'm gonna like some changes and dislike others, but this one I just.. do not understand
It feels like the only way to interact with ailments now is just 'stack lots of damage". Which, at a glance, seems cool.. but that means that rapid attacking builds are kind of SoL with.. any ailment now?
Bleed not working on es
Poison not stacking by default
Is poison now chaos damage exclusive, or will any physical hit have Chance to poison too?
I feel like these are overall pretty massive nerfs to the entire system.
I was never any good at getting any ailment damage to work in poe1, but now that you can't even guarantee a proc.. i feel like trying to rely on the 'bonus damage to frozen/bleeding target' mods feel even worse because they are going to be very unreliable.
I straight up don't understand how to really do anything with the new system anymore.. feels like unless you're doing a slam build, then you might as well pretend ailments don't exist?
its important to remember that there is no such thing as a nerf at this point. the ailments are different, but the game is built with those ailments and this system in mind. At a glance, my assumption (since their damage still doesn't stack) is that since this game is built to have much more active combat, with different skills, ailments would be more of a side factor in builds. Less "playing an ignite build" and more "keeping dot uptime with my ignite skill". As someone who likes dot skills I will probably miss my ignite arc build, but it's a different game. I wasn't expecting every build archetype to carry over/play the same anyways.
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Shit changes to be honest, lets make it all RNG based , wtf?
It's not all rng, you can still reach 100% chance with more chance to ignite multipliers and such. You just spec into more damage instead of chance to apply said ailments to cap it now.
Also keep in mind this change also applies to enemies as well. You (on paper) won't be getting spammed by ailments anymore by random enemies grazing you with double ailment effect.
You have no clue how this will interact with the game.
Not sure if they’re changing shock, but doesn’t this make shock insane for an ignite build? You scale damage taken and so the base ignite dps, and then you scale the ignite dps with it again…. They have to be changing shock in some way or that’s too broken lol
the screenshot of the discord messages says damage modifiers don't apply to them anymore, which could very well include damage taken modifiers. It could be something like the current games reflected damage, where ailments have their own limited rules for how to scale them
This will probably be one of the first big things they refactor during the beta. On paper, this sounds horrible.
I really dislike the changes it basically says damaging ailments now suck wait for a patch in the future to make it work again. It’s all these changes sound like