If the rest of the army engaged an encirclement of the Thebans would be the most logical outcome. But the attack must have been lighting fast. This is the advantage of the hoplites, with the right gym training and discipline they can act as shock troops.
Sparta: "Thebes is not allowed to represent it's entire confederacy! They should all sign separately!" Thebes: "Then it's only fair that Sparta should not be allowed to represent it's entire confederacy either. All of them should sign separately as well." Sparta: "How dare you use my own words against me! War!!!"
The scam was too obvious and they didn't fall for it. Of course if they sign Sparta makes war on the small city states and jacks Thebes political power. Excellent campaign by Thebes both politically and militarily. Epaminindas and Pilopidas were a couple of bad ass men!
@@SantomPh the spartans were butchered i dont think at thermopoly it was such a humiliation as a much of a nuisance. But the late battle forgot its name was truly an embarrament. Its the general that leads the army that matters more than the numbers
Truely depends on what extent of Numbers we are talking and what timeframe. Afterall in more modern times equipment and logistics make a HUGE difference. But I agree, an army of sheep lead by a lion is more dangerous than an army of lions lead by a sheep.
well in reality the armies probably wasn't that far apart, (the armies could probably throw things at each other), and if they left to help out the right flank that was getting routed they would probably open up the line. I might be wrong though, I wasn't exactly there, in which case you should probably report them then lol
This battle is most important in human warfare history in terms of strategy. A lot of capable generals have used this strategy to their battle. As a soldier, I most respect Epaminondas.
You forgot the most important part: "The Laconians were taught to keep flutes in their army; who, advancing before them into battle, would always sound the charge. And I know that the oracle had promised victory to the Laconians, so long as they continued to use flutes in their army, and did not fight against those who kept flutes. The battle of Leuctra confirmed this prediction; for there the Laconians, without the music of flutes, fought against the Thebans, who always used flutes in battle; so that the god seemed to have foretold directly that the Thebans would defeat the Laconians." - Polyaenus, Strategems Lesson: behind every great generals there's a great woodwind section.
I don't believe this is the most important aspect of the subject matter, but it's definitely interesting. It is definitely interesting. Certainly, the most interesting trivia.
Some useful historical knownledge for you guys. During the Thebes/Sparta conflict,Phillip of Macedon - father of Alexander the Great - was exiled at the court of the Thebian king.During his stay he took everything useful that the Thebians had to offer in terms of warfare and this particular battle was crucial to the rise of the greek Macedonian kingdom which by then was a semi-independent/Persian satellite state.He adopted the deep multiple ranks ''box'' formation and coupled with the length of the sarissa,he was capable of dominating the rest of the greek kingdoms/city states,who mostly relied on heavily armored,shorter spear wielding hoplite warfare.
funniest thing about phillip and alexander was even though they conquered half the world, they still could not touch the spartans in laconia and had to let them be
@@johnsmitty7447 >still could not touch the spartans The fact that they DID NOT touch the spartans does not necessarily mean they COULD NOT do it. Even Romans did not touch the spartans. Not too much anyway...
Yeah, Phillip (and in turn Alexander) learnt a lot from Peolopidas and Epaminondas, more than a lot of people give them credit for. The importance of troop composition, as Alexander made use of everything from slingers to archers to calvary to infantry. He also learned of the oblique tactic and of staggering your troops approach, which Epaminondas used in this very video. He was also taught about specialty troops (i.e the Sacred Band) and how they are most effectively used not only in combat, but as a way of raising the morale of the other soldiers. Finally, Pelopidas and Epaminondas taught him a lot about statesmanship and probably helped him develop more compassionate feelings towards the general population, which is something Alexander was well known for (he had great respect for other cultures and defeated enemies, causing a lot of his enemies during his campaign to simply lay down arms without any battle). Pelopidas himself was well known to be extremely charitable towards the poor, and shared in his soldiers hardships, not allowing himself any of the luxuries that aristocracy affords. I can't quite remember the quote, but he was apparently once told by a friend that it is necessary for him to spend his money, to which Pelopidas famously pointed to a nearby blind, crippled beggar called Nicodemus and said "Yes, it is necessary for Nicodemus." Sorry for the long winded essay, this subject is dear to my heart and there's a lot I wanted to say :)
Epaminondas was all around badass! Invincible military leader, olympic champion wrestler, excellent hoplite soldier, civil leader, orator and pythagoran philsopher. Greatest of greeks any time like Cicero later said. Amazing character!
Artaxerxes is sitting there like: "man, if only dad and grandpa had realized that dividing people made them a lot easier to conquer! Hey, divide and conquer, has a nice ring to it."
A young Philip of Macedon, when was hostage in Thebes, learnead about Thebean tactics and used later for his "Pezhetairoi", members of the formidable Sarissa Phalanx. Alexander refined it for his great campaign in Asia. The demonstration that Ancient Greece was birthplace not only of politics and philosofy, but also of warfare.
Reasonably extensive series has been done on belisarius by extra credits. I’m not sure whether there’s enough sources to go deeper than that. Not that I would mind this forgotten genius getting some spotlight :)
I haven't heard of the bro? What region is he from? What did he do? (to spare your fingers, give a brief summer instead of the essay. LOL, I ain't worth That much effort.)
Though Epaminondas and Pelopidas beat him in the end, Cleombrotus was a pretty smart general too. He invaded from a direction that was undefended, and seized a port city, which meant he could receive reinforcements and supplies across the Gulf of Corinth if it became necessary.
If losing a single skirmish was enough to make people doubt the military might of Sparta then getting their King killed in battle must have been a death blow to Spartan reputation.
@@vladkandinsky796 totally wrong Sparta dominated as a superpower the Greek world for about 3.5 centuries long before and long after Leonidas. The death of Leonidas was certain and the way he died made him a legend and made the entire Sparta and Peloponnese to mobilize an enormous army of 30.000 + 20.000 Athenian etc to meet the Persians in platae.so the death of this spartan king was honorable and glorious.
I think I already have that video on Blue Ray...... And I think the History Channel already did a 30-to-hour special on it. I think you can even find the bootleg on RUclips......
ruclips.net/video/e_1d3ZasrTA/видео.html 1:30 minutes. I knew there was a 1 and a 30 in there somewhere..... If you like it, you should also check out the History Channels' "Battle BC" it comes from the same Team. Also, yes the geography of Thermopylae isn't detail accurate, but it was a creative decision made to Match the 300 movie that had just came out.
@@mikeshogunlee I cant help myself, but US documents are just poorly made. Always mentioning stuff like Normandy, D-day, repeating stuff again and again. It is so boring and it takes forever before they get to the point.
I take it back, this one is actually good. Although some comparisons are really tearing my ears. For example: "Themistokles was like Winston Churchill- briliant politician, military strategist..." Churchil- author of the plan to invade Gallipoli, probably the biggest fail in the history of combined army/navy assaults-LOL
My mind is stimulated every time I see the upload notification for this channel. Side note would give anything to be at a peace conference with all those figures
Cleombotus: "Hey, how did you die?" Leonidas: "I refused to run from a Persian Army 3 times my own, in order to buy the Allied Greek City-States enough time to evacuate and prepare the secondary defenses. Why, how did you die?" Celomboutus:"......I was zerg rushed by some gay dudes I outnumbered two to one....."
Nah, If Leonidas was there, the Thebans would have dropped there spears and helped him conquer Thebes...... The man convinced 700 Thebans to die, you think he couldn't convince them to live?
@@mikeshogunlee there were 700 THESPIANS not THEBANS who died alongside the 300. In the wars against Sparta and Athens, Thebes was actually on the Persian side! Also Leonidas did not convince the Thespians to stay, they were also ordered to leave but refused to retreat, preferring honor in death and not to be shamed by the Spartans.
In certain dimensions it was Cleombrotus who was outnumbered- his ranks were 7 to 8 men deep, Epaminondas built the Theban ranks to be 50 men deep. Cleombrotus was literally bulldozed and flanked almost immediately and his own troops, about 1000 Spartiates were annhilated, with over 700 killed outright in the first charge. Pelippodas also hid the Sacred Band inside the 5th or 6th rank (these men were Spartan-level professional soldiers) and burst out of formation when the two lines clashed, flanking from the left and leading the attack that cut down Cleombrotus. In an era where it was a meat grinder between two phalanxes poking and stabbing each other, the Sacred Band's action was revolutionary, inspiring Phillip and Alexander to always have a hoplite rank of non -spearmen that can screen and support the main phalanx.
@@SantomPh there were about 3 or 400 Thebans at thermopolaye also. It wasn't yet known how far Theban support was for Persia. Rumors were flying and Leonidas didn't allow the Theban contingent to leave with the rest of the allies.
Thanks for this series about Theban Hegemony! a super interesting period to often overlooked. Epaminondas and Pelopidas were two of the best generals in the ancient world hands down! but yet again not recognized enough. Hope not many spartan fanboys are crying with this.....
T-series, seeing their right flank crumbling, sends out the war elephants straight out from the slums of Mumbai to contain the breach caused by Pewdiepie's elite "9 year old" guards division.
I loved this episode. I had to make an oral presentation on the subject 1 month ago. My first reflex was to go to your channel to see if there was a video on the subject, but there was none yet. So this comes a little bit late for me but that's great! I had to really go and find the original sources of the time, it was fun and interesting. Thanks for the episode, it provides the visual supplement to my work and it's very well done :)
5 лет назад+12
i have one question: What software do you make this video (Thank you)
I believe that Epaminondas was one of the most genius generals in history of warfare. He was such a personality and had such insightfulness. He also had such pioneer strategic ideas that only can compare him with generals such as Alexander the great. In 362 B.C. dies in the battle of Mantineia. In these 9 years Thebes became under his leadership first time and only time, first power in Greece. In these 9 years created new tactics that the ancient warfare hadnt seen so far. He was the first to use mix tactics of light infantry and cavalary. He also created for the first time navy for the Thebans. For all these he was a master tactician and he died undefeated. Thats why my opinion is that we only can compare him with the best, although i believe he was the BEST.
Alexander the Great used tactics from Leuctra to win Gaugamela. Philip II was held as a hostage in Thebes around the time of Battle of Leuctra so probably idea came from there. Not sure if you can give Epaminondas creating the mix of light infantry with cavalry, as it's on record by Xenophon in Greek Histories that both sides used that mix when engaging, shortly after battle of Leuctra. I think that mix could be common in Greece, just the light infantry isn't mentioned as they were probably made of slaves. Alexander using that mix at Gaugamela probably wasn't something ground breaking as it's held in belive today.
As much as we love ancient Sparta, we have to recognise the damage they have done to Greece during the period of the Peloponnese war and until the end of Alexander's the Great campaign in Asia. They were fearless against their opponents in the battlefield but they were very insecure against any kind of progress around them and they always choose the conservative way of thinking which finally became their Nemesis.
Further to these series it would be a compelling watch to see the campaign of Agesilaus the Great across Asia Minor and back. Hope you will consider this and thanks for your work!
Thank you! I always look forward to your video's. Your voice is very calm and plesant. (could you make one About William of Orange and the 80 years war between the Netherlands and Spain?) P.s I have watched all of your video's they are great and you really improved.
Actually, Baz did a video on Chaeronea back when he first began his Alexander the Great series. However, he used his own voice for narration, and given that he's Polish, I can see why he would eventually privatize them. You can still find it in a few playlists if you look on RUclips. However, you may be right, and Baz could possibly use this series to redo part of his Macedon series!
Fun fact the elite and best troops were heavily armour and not like in the movies. Along with their experience is why they would be so good. I heard royal spartans were covered everywhere in armor from head to toes.
Thank you BazBattles for adding this tactical masterpiece of ancient warfare. Leuctra should be considered right up there with Cannae, Pharsalus and Hydaspes. Not least of all for its influence on a certain young Prince Philip of Macedon as some of my colleagues have noted.
Even though this was a devastating lost for the Spartans, they lost between 400 to 700 actual Spartans soldiers. That was still a vast amount since there were not a lot of Spartan knights to begin with. During the battle of Platea, there were 9 to 11 thousand of them, probably the highest number of them in their history. I have read during the time when they were at war with Thebes, about 4 thousand or less was what they had of the Spartan Knights. Even when the Thebans beat them in battle due to superior tactics, the Spartans were still feared and not thought of being inferior to the Thebans as soldiers. What really lead to the Spartan's downfall, is the lost of their territory of Messinia. When they ruled them, they provided for their economic needs in food and materials. With the loss of them, they became mercenaries to support their system but this was not enough for their needs. Eventually Sparta became poor and lead to a revolution. KIng Cleomenes reformed the army and tried to conquer Messenia and other territories that was lost. He was not successful, fled to Egypt and died there. Sparta never again attempted to recover her former glory and system.
As a Greek and a nationalst one I am one of the few left knowing my country's history so well. Alloud me to add some points for all history lovers outhere: 1) Its an irony that Epaminondas and Pelopidas years before, were saved in battle by a Spartan king. 2) Also its very interesting to follow the evolution of Greek warfare. From the homerical warrior > to the city of Argos which invented the phallanx tactic > The Spartans who master it > The great Athenian Iphicrates and his introduction of the peltasts in order to harass the cohesion of the phallanx > to the Oblique order of the Thebeans and > finally the Macedonian form of phallanx. Persians were unfortunate to face Greek military evolution of centuries. At its peak! Commanded by one of the greatest tactician mind of all time (if not THE greatest). 3) Also i must add that king Phillip was "hostage" of the Thebeans and he learned a lot from Epaminondas and Pelopidas. 4) 362 bc and when Epaminondas died, someone told him " U are dying childless Epaminondas". He replied "No. I have 2 daughters. Leuctra and Mantinea". 5) It was a form of Oblique order that Alexander used in his masterpiece battle. Gaugamela. They are many say that Epaminontas was happy seing from the sky Alexander using a form of his invention in such a large scale in such a historical battle. 6) We stil used the phrase "Tommorow the importants" in Greece. Its the phrase that Αrchias, the local pro-Spartan oligargh ruler replied to a messenger when the late tried to inform him that Epaminondas and Pelopidas have returned from Athens and they were ploting to assasinated him the next day. He was busy at a symposium that night. "But its important" the messenger told him. "Tommorow the importants" Archias replied. The next day he and the rest of the oligarchs were killed by the democrats. 7) Αccording to the laws of Lucourgos the Spartans were avoiding to give many battles with the same enemy from fear that the enemy will become better and they will find a way to beat them. "Today Thebeans payed you their fees for teaching them how to fight" Antalcidas said to king Agesilaus once the king with a lot of wounds in his body, returned in Sparta after a battle with the Thebeans.
"if not THE greatest" Nah, the greatest is Napoléon. No, I don't say that because I'm french :p Funnily, King Friedrich II of Prussia also used an oblique order, almost 2000 years later. It was no more phalanx but line ifantry, however the principle was the same, renforcing a wing and sending it first to have an overwhelming local superiority, and then turning (thanks to the highly trained prussian army) to flank the ennemy army and have, again, superiority with the rest of the army slowly marching to combat. And it worked perfectly well on austrian armies in Leuthen ^^
@@krankarvolund7771 "no, I don't say that because I'm French" Suuuure you don't.... ;) Debates as to the greatest general of all time are pretty tiresome anyway. Different times, different resources, different enemies, different technology, different geography... It's impossible to state who the best is without pretending those other factors don't exist.
@@arthurfisher1857 Well, Napoleon did fight more battles than several of his concurrent, but yeah, it's really very complicated to compare. I think it's safer to just said that there's an elite club of elite tacticians who count (at least) Caüs Juilius Caesar, Hannibal Barca, Alexander the Great, Friedrich the Great and Napoleon ^^
Spartan commander: - Okay, guys lets sing that war-song...! Spartan scout: - Commander, the enemy is pushing hard on our right. Spartan commander: - Fancy a beer? Anyone?
The Spartans were already in decline by the battle. The loss guaranteed that the Spartans would never be a power again. By the 4th Century, Sparta' s mighty military had less resources and fewer fighters. A society that depended on soldiers was dealing with a reality of a dwindling Spartiate class.
The left wing of Sparta's army were reluctant allies, the moment they saw the king die many just booked it for home. Thebes wanted to rout the Spartans who were escaping but Athens of all people convinced them to stop
*searches for a Persepolis Rising joke in the comments* *doesn't find one* *cough* "The surrender of the Transport Union and the Earth-Mars Coalition to High Admiral Anton Trejo of the Empire of Laconia, Battle of Point Leuctra, between the orbits of Mars and Jupiter, circa 2395. Colorized"
Remind me again, wasn't it liberal President Obama who lifted the ban of openly gay/transgender troops in the US military, something President Bonespurs and his conservative lackeys want to end?
The sad thing is that you don't understand the Greek world and the words that you read you think the old Greek word of lovers means to make love no it doesn't mean that. They were teachers and the others were boys who learned from them how to live.
the sacred band of thebes strikes again. No one stops the legion of male lovers. Undefeated till Phillip the 2nd (Alexander the greats dad) destroyed them
Important to note that the idea of "pushing" is controversial. Some authors emphasize that rather than a push, armies would periodically clash, fall back, then fight again as they took breaks to recover their strength. The rear ranks of the Thebans, under that interpretation, would have provided vital moral support to the soldiers in the front, who would feel that they were supported, and this gives them an edge over the relatively less numerous Spartans.
Yeah, I've always been wondering how helpful massing troops so deep could really be if it all came down to pushing. I mean what are the rear ranks going to do exactly? Squeeze the front ranks into mush?
@@antred11 > Squeeze the front ranks into mush Exactly. Dunno about line relief in hoplite phalanx, but romans implemented it - so rear ranks were a reserve of fresh troops.
@@informationyes They would have won if the king HADN'T HAD* the strategic mind of a potato.* Ironically, grammar could be considered a strategy, which the Spartan king would have bested.
@@goosequillian mmm isn't the sentence just a simple past negative? anyway this is the internet you would be luck if basic spelling is correct. I don't know Grammar is only a strategy in how its complex but either way is going to help him win a battle, he should have spent less time writing and more time doing battle planning.
it's not established what the relationship between the partners was, given how ambiguous ancient Greeks were about terms like "lover". The Spartans had similar relationships in their ranks, but they were never trained together like the Sacred Band was.
There's a mistake in the summary cards. Sparta's total strength should be 11,000 of course. I'm deeply sorry.
It happens buddy ❤
You have sinned. It is a sign from God. New Crusader video soon to receive indulgence from God?
:P
Love your work as usual.
Another great video none the less
How dare you act like a human and make a small mistake!?!?!?!!!!
Love your vids so much K3
Don’t worry man it happens
Sun Tzu: Strike the enemy where they are weak and you will-
Epaminodas: I'LL SHOW YOU A STRONG FLANK, LET'S GOOO BOYS!
Their strength is also their greatest weakness--once the right falls, the entire line would crumble
If the rest of the army engaged an encirclement of the Thebans would be the most logical outcome. But the attack must have been lighting fast. This is the advantage of the hoplites, with the right gym training and discipline they can act as shock troops.
@@Billswiftgti I wonder how the Spartan king didn't see the different line up earlier
Billswiftgti Speed is the essence of warfare.
@@MyKillyy from the front a 50 rank phalanx looks the same as an 8 rank
Sparta: "Thebes is not allowed to represent it's entire confederacy! They should all sign separately!"
Thebes: "Then it's only fair that Sparta should not be allowed to represent it's entire confederacy either. All of them should sign separately as well."
Sparta: "How dare you use my own words against me! War!!!"
Sparta: *pickachu shocked face*
Oh yeah, I vaguely remember that as one of the great dumb moments of history.
@Provocateur yeah, and?
The scam was too obvious and they didn't fall for it. Of course if they sign Sparta makes war on the small city states and jacks Thebes political power.
Excellent campaign by Thebes both politically and militarily.
Epaminindas and Pilopidas were a couple of bad ass men!
@@GeraltofRivia22 so they had more experience in sword fights
I wonder how much popcorn the Persian king brought with him when he arrived on the peace table
He was giggling at the irony that the Spartans that humiliated his ancestor's army were now begging him for support
@@SantomPh the spartans were butchered i dont think at thermopoly it was such a humiliation as a much of a nuisance. But the late battle forgot its name was truly an embarrament.
Its the general that leads the army that matters more than the numbers
Truely depends on what extent of Numbers we are talking and what timeframe.
Afterall in more modern times equipment and logistics make a HUGE difference.
But I agree, an army of sheep lead by a lion is more dangerous than an army of lions lead by a sheep.
@@SantomPh how did they humiliate ? they lost
@@MajorCoolD actually I like the "an army of lions lead by a sheep" more dangerous, just imagine what the sheep had to do, to lead army of lions
Two videos with only one week apart? And with this level of quality? Absolutely incredible.
ruclips.net/video/sh7e47RBpt8/видео.html
Not really... you don't think it's just one person making them do you? They are good but it's got to be a team effort
@@IUseTheOtherHand they always have a gap of a month between 2 video's so this is really unique
@@ivar1543 Tegyra was a close precursor for Leuctra. It's no surprise.
@@IUseTheOtherHand The channel has less than 100k so I'll be quite impressed if this is a team effort.
reported 75% of the spartan army for afk
Lol
Yeah I was thinking wtf are they doing
well in reality the armies probably wasn't that far apart, (the armies could probably throw things at each other), and if they left to help out the right flank that was getting routed they would probably open up the line. I might be wrong though, I wasn't exactly there, in which case you should probably report them then lol
"Sorry guys, had to refill our wine, what did we miss?"
That's what reserves are for
Okay okay.., here's this new joke I heard...
Diplomats of Thebes, Athens, and Macedon walks into a peace conference in Sparta.
That's the joke.
very funny
That's the nerdiest joke I've ever heard... but I love it.
I am not sure that I get it. Are the same diplomats representing all three anti-Spartan polities at once?
i did not get it... well, it happens.
Dominic Guye it’s because Spartans don’t do politics
This battle is most important in human warfare history in terms of strategy. A lot of capable generals have used this strategy to their battle. As a soldier, I most respect Epaminondas.
My name is Epaminondas
But you're not the Epaminondas he was talking about
Gotta love the oblique order.
Yes, because he actually first user about "Blitzkreig"
You forgot the most important part:
"The Laconians were taught to keep flutes in their army; who, advancing before them into battle, would always sound the charge. And I know that the oracle had promised victory to the Laconians, so long as they continued to use flutes in their army, and did not fight against those who kept flutes. The battle of Leuctra confirmed this prediction; for there the Laconians, without the music of flutes, fought against the Thebans, who always used flutes in battle; so that the god seemed to have foretold directly that the Thebans would defeat the Laconians." - Polyaenus, Strategems
Lesson: behind every great generals there's a great woodwind section.
that's the strength of the phalanx, a pipe up the butt of the man in front.
I don't believe this is the most important aspect of the subject matter, but it's definitely interesting. It is definitely interesting. Certainly, the most interesting trivia.
@@elijahwilensky3318 I’m going to write my local Congressperson about reallocating all the HIMARS/F-35 funds into a Lizzo-cloning program
Some useful historical knownledge for you guys.
During the Thebes/Sparta conflict,Phillip of Macedon - father of Alexander the Great - was exiled at the court of the Thebian king.During his stay he took everything useful that the Thebians had to offer in terms of warfare and this particular battle was crucial to the rise of the greek Macedonian kingdom which by then was a semi-independent/Persian satellite state.He adopted the deep multiple ranks ''box'' formation and coupled with the length of the sarissa,he was capable of dominating the rest of the greek kingdoms/city states,who mostly relied on heavily armored,shorter spear wielding hoplite warfare.
And four decades later his son used the army created with that knowledge to destroy Thebes.... Such ungratefulness :p
except for there was no king in Thebes :)
funniest thing about phillip and alexander was even though they conquered half the world, they still could not touch the spartans in laconia and had to let them be
@@johnsmitty7447 >still could not touch the spartans
The fact that they DID NOT touch the spartans does not necessarily mean they COULD NOT do it. Even Romans did not touch the spartans. Not too much anyway...
Yeah, Phillip (and in turn Alexander) learnt a lot from Peolopidas and Epaminondas, more than a lot of people give them credit for. The importance of troop composition, as Alexander made use of everything from slingers to archers to calvary to infantry. He also learned of the oblique tactic and of staggering your troops approach, which Epaminondas used in this very video. He was also taught about specialty troops (i.e the Sacred Band) and how they are most effectively used not only in combat, but as a way of raising the morale of the other soldiers. Finally, Pelopidas and Epaminondas taught him a lot about statesmanship and probably helped him develop more compassionate feelings towards the general population, which is something Alexander was well known for (he had great respect for other cultures and defeated enemies, causing a lot of his enemies during his campaign to simply lay down arms without any battle). Pelopidas himself was well known to be extremely charitable towards the poor, and shared in his soldiers hardships, not allowing himself any of the luxuries that aristocracy affords. I can't quite remember the quote, but he was apparently once told by a friend that it is necessary for him to spend his money, to which Pelopidas famously pointed to a nearby blind, crippled beggar called Nicodemus and said "Yes, it is necessary for Nicodemus."
Sorry for the long winded essay, this subject is dear to my heart and there's a lot I wanted to say :)
*A new video from BazBattles*
...
My night just improved substantially!
I know, right?
its day here and i just woke up so good day
Epaminondas was all around badass! Invincible military leader, olympic champion wrestler, excellent hoplite soldier, civil leader, orator and pythagoran philsopher. Greatest of greeks any time like Cicero later said. Amazing character!
Montaigne also judged him as the greatest person ever lived. Such a pity that Plutarkhos work about him didn't survive.
@@can6834I'm gutted Epaminondas' parallel life was lost
Artaxerxes is sitting there like: "man, if only dad and grandpa had realized that dividing people made them a lot easier to conquer! Hey, divide and conquer, has a nice ring to it."
Macedon later:about that
A young Philip of Macedon, when was hostage in Thebes, learnead about Thebean tactics and used later for his "Pezhetairoi", members of the formidable Sarissa Phalanx. Alexander refined it for his great campaign in Asia. The demonstration that Ancient Greece was birthplace not only of politics and philosofy, but also of warfare.
@Ponyyish ok
It wasn't the birthplace of warfare...
Hmmm, i believe China also a birth place of warfare. Warfare born in many place and in many way as long as there ia a conflict.
One wonders if the birthplace of warfare could have matched up with other military cultures of the era.
Not everything started in Europe(in fact the vast majority of things didn't)There were other much more grand civilizations during that time.
Can you make a series about belisarius and his accomplishments?
Reasonably extensive series has been done on belisarius by extra credits. I’m not sure whether there’s enough sources to go deeper than that. Not that I would mind this forgotten genius getting some spotlight :)
@@johny16G kings and generals has also done belisarius
Bjørn Johannes Torvatn Then Heraclius or Basil the II please!
Bjørn Johannes Torvatn Kings and Generals did a series like that
I haven't heard of the bro?
What region is he from?
What did he do? (to spare your fingers, give a brief summer instead of the essay. LOL, I ain't worth That much effort.)
Though Epaminondas and Pelopidas beat him in the end, Cleombrotus was a pretty smart general too. He invaded from a direction that was undefended, and seized a port city, which meant he could receive reinforcements and supplies across the Gulf of Corinth if it became necessary.
If losing a single skirmish was enough to make people doubt the military might of Sparta then getting their King killed in battle must have been a death blow to Spartan reputation.
Well when Superman starts to bleed from the nose after one punch, you doubt his claim of having superpowers.
Ironically losing their King in a battle is what birthed the myth of Spartan invincibility - in the battle of the 300 at the Gates of Thermopylae.
@@vladkandinsky796 totally wrong Sparta dominated as a superpower the Greek world for about 3.5 centuries long before and long after Leonidas. The death of Leonidas was certain and the way he died made him a legend and made the entire Sparta and Peloponnese to mobilize an enormous army of 30.000 + 20.000 Athenian etc to meet the Persians in platae.so the death of this spartan king was honorable and glorious.
Speaking of which, you guys should try a video about the Spartan Last Stand so we can visualize with your production style how the real battle was.
I think I already have that video on Blue Ray......
And I think the History Channel already did a 30-to-hour special on it. I think you can even find the bootleg on RUclips......
@@mikeshogunlee could you post a link by any chance?
ruclips.net/video/e_1d3ZasrTA/видео.html
1:30 minutes. I knew there was a 1 and a 30 in there somewhere.....
If you like it, you should also check out the History Channels' "Battle BC" it comes from the same Team.
Also, yes the geography of Thermopylae isn't detail accurate, but it was a creative decision made to Match the 300 movie that had just came out.
@@mikeshogunlee I cant help myself, but US documents are just poorly made. Always mentioning stuff like Normandy, D-day, repeating stuff again and again. It is so boring and it takes forever before they get to the point.
I take it back, this one is actually good. Although some comparisons are really tearing my ears. For example: "Themistokles was like Winston Churchill- briliant politician, military strategist..." Churchil- author of the plan to invade Gallipoli, probably the biggest fail in the history of combined army/navy assaults-LOL
My mind is stimulated every time I see the upload notification for this channel.
Side note would give anything to be at a peace conference with all those figures
Cleombotus: "Hey, how did you die?"
Leonidas: "I refused to run from a Persian Army 3 times my own, in order to buy the Allied Greek City-States enough time to evacuate and prepare the secondary defenses. Why, how did you die?"
Celomboutus:"......I was zerg rushed by some gay dudes I outnumbered two to one....."
Leonidas would have been wiped also..... Epaminondas was too much for overrated Spartans....
Nah,
If Leonidas was there, the Thebans would have dropped there spears and helped him conquer Thebes......
The man convinced 700 Thebans to die, you think he couldn't convince them to live?
@@mikeshogunlee there were 700 THESPIANS not THEBANS who died alongside the 300. In the wars against Sparta and Athens, Thebes was actually on the Persian side!
Also Leonidas did not convince the Thespians to stay, they were also ordered to leave but refused to retreat, preferring honor in death and not to be shamed by the Spartans.
In certain dimensions it was Cleombrotus who was outnumbered- his ranks were 7 to 8 men deep, Epaminondas built the Theban ranks to be 50 men deep. Cleombrotus was literally bulldozed and flanked almost immediately and his own troops, about 1000 Spartiates were annhilated, with over 700 killed outright in the first charge.
Pelippodas also hid the Sacred Band inside the 5th or 6th rank (these men were Spartan-level professional soldiers) and burst out of formation when the two lines clashed, flanking from the left and leading the attack that cut down Cleombrotus.
In an era where it was a meat grinder between two phalanxes poking and stabbing each other, the Sacred Band's action was revolutionary, inspiring Phillip and Alexander to always have a hoplite rank of non -spearmen that can screen and support the main phalanx.
@@SantomPh there were about 3 or 400 Thebans at thermopolaye also. It wasn't yet known how far Theban support was for Persia. Rumors were flying and Leonidas didn't allow the Theban contingent to leave with the rest of the allies.
thank you!! we appreciate deeply what you doing in greece
One of the most significant battles in antiquity; its military innovations heavily influenced the decisions of a future king of Macedonia.....
I’ve already used Great Courses, it’s honestly really worthwhile
Unbelievable production quality, love these videos.
Thanks for this series about Theban Hegemony! a super interesting period to often overlooked. Epaminondas and Pelopidas were two of the best generals in the ancient world hands down! but yet again not recognized enough. Hope not many spartan fanboys are crying with this.....
Epaminondas probably rolled 6's throughout the whole battle
Risk da best
The sacred band going fabulously through spartan ranks
**uploads video at midnight**
Gues i wont be sleeping for 10 more min 🤷🏻♂️
Its like christmas eve everytime i see a new upload from BazBattles
These are so well made its crazy, cant even think about how you make these animations
Baz Battles in 2085: Pewdiepie vs T-Series 2018
Ww3
Pewdiepie, sense T-Series weakness, called upon his allies in the fourth-reich....
....what, Too Soon?
@@mikeshogunlee or too late
T-series, seeing their right flank crumbling, sends out the war elephants straight out from the slums of Mumbai to contain the breach caused by Pewdiepie's elite "9 year old" guards division.
*Oh, the carnage* !
I loved this episode. I had to make an oral presentation on the subject 1 month ago. My first reflex was to go to your channel to see if there was a video on the subject, but there was none yet.
So this comes a little bit late for me but that's great! I had to really go and find the original sources of the time, it was fun and interesting.
Thanks for the episode, it provides the visual supplement to my work and it's very well done :)
i have one question: What software do you make this video (Thank you)
Great video man, always enjoy the way you narrate it and the high quality edition of the video.
I believe that Epaminondas was one of the most genius generals in history of warfare. He was such a personality and had such insightfulness. He also had such pioneer strategic ideas that only can compare him with generals such as Alexander the great.
In 362 B.C. dies in the battle of Mantineia. In these 9 years Thebes became under his leadership first time and only time, first power in Greece. In these 9 years created new tactics that the ancient warfare hadnt seen so far. He was the first to use mix tactics of light infantry and cavalary. He also created for the first time navy for the Thebans.
For all these he was a master tactician and he died undefeated.
Thats why my opinion is that we only can compare him with the best, although i believe he was the BEST.
Alexander the Great used tactics from Leuctra to win Gaugamela. Philip II was held as a hostage in Thebes around the time of Battle of Leuctra so probably idea came from there. Not sure if you can give Epaminondas creating the mix of light infantry with cavalry, as it's on record by Xenophon in Greek Histories that both sides used that mix when engaging, shortly after battle of Leuctra. I think that mix could be common in Greece, just the light infantry isn't mentioned as they were probably made of slaves. Alexander using that mix at Gaugamela probably wasn't something ground breaking as it's held in belive today.
now my sunday is better, what a great video, thank you and never leave us.
As much as we love ancient Sparta, we have to recognise the damage they have done to Greece during the period of the Peloponnese war and until the end of Alexander's the Great campaign in Asia.
They were fearless against their opponents in the battlefield but they were very insecure against any kind of progress around them and they always choose the conservative way of thinking which finally became their Nemesis.
Further to these series it would be a compelling watch to see the campaign of Agesilaus the Great across Asia Minor and back. Hope you will consider this and thanks for your work!
Thank you! I always look forward to your video's. Your voice is very calm and plesant.
(could you make one About William of Orange and the 80 years war between the Netherlands and Spain?)
P.s I have watched all of your video's they are great and you really improved.
Dragon50275 coincidental the person who killed William was also named Balthasar
I loved the old earrape intro. I hum that every time I'm about to fight a battle in a game. It's the most iconic part of this channel for me
Its almost sad to see a legend like the spartans be defeated like that.
The word is (Strategy). Strategy won the battle and war against the Persians, and Strategy made The Greeks lose.
So what. Fuxk Sparta.
All badass army, will have its end.
Lol who cares. The Spartans were dicks
They had lost their way
Love your videos man, and the voice acting is also fantastic as always
Great video Baz! Can’t wait to see the battle of Chaeronea in 338 bc!
Actually, Baz did a video on Chaeronea back when he first began his Alexander the Great series. However, he used his own voice for narration, and given that he's Polish, I can see why he would eventually privatize them. You can still find it in a few playlists if you look on RUclips. However, you may be right, and Baz could possibly use this series to redo part of his Macedon series!
Thanks Ettie 102, I did not know that. Can you give me the name of an account that has that video in a playlist?
@@EndymionClashofClans Sure! I have a playlist myself of just the privated ones. I'll link it to you.
@@EndymionClashofClans ruclips.net/p/PL27yY3yy71kTeVqEkasJ1Q0gqzQQHKLrc
I just want to say, these videos are incredibly informing. I absolutely love them. What is the next era you intend on covering?
Subbed to thegreatcoursesplus just to support you!
What quality of video, superb strategic and tactical explanations ... Another battle that I will replay in figures, too tempting! 👍👍
Fun fact the elite and best troops were heavily armour and not like in the movies. Along with their experience is why they would be so good. I heard royal spartans were covered everywhere in armor from head to toes.
Great video. Battle of Cartagena De indias is epic and hasn't been covered by any battle's channel. It'd be a great watch.
Oblique Order... a classic tactic
but rare for obvious reasons. A win or die strategy for certain.
classic and the 1st battle where it was first used.
Well, it was classical Greece!
Thank you BazBattles for adding this tactical masterpiece of ancient warfare.
Leuctra should be considered right up there with Cannae, Pharsalus and Hydaspes.
Not least of all for its influence on a certain young Prince Philip of Macedon as some of my colleagues have noted.
You are spoiling us 😍
Xanthos Parashis
Vitiate?
@@HVLLOW99 I have reanimated myself.
I am raising a new empire.
But first I have to cosume this planet.
😄
Xanthos Parashis
Shit, it realy is you.
Incredible history!
You are the nr1 history channel
History and Generals and Invicta are equal nr1
Bartłomiej Zakrzewski
Kings & Generals you mean.
Who else came here to see moving rectangles?. I love it.
This should be the way to teach history at schools. 🙂
Even though this was a devastating lost for the Spartans, they lost between 400 to 700 actual Spartans soldiers. That was still a vast amount since there were not a lot of Spartan knights to begin with. During the battle of Platea, there were 9 to 11 thousand of them, probably the highest number of them in their history. I have read during the time when they were at war with Thebes, about 4 thousand or less was what they had of the Spartan Knights. Even when the Thebans beat them in battle due to superior tactics, the Spartans were still feared and not thought of being inferior to the Thebans as soldiers. What really lead to the Spartan's downfall, is the lost of their territory of Messinia. When they ruled them, they provided for their economic needs in food and materials. With the loss of them, they became mercenaries to support their system but this was not enough for their needs. Eventually Sparta became poor and lead to a revolution. KIng Cleomenes reformed the army and tried to conquer Messenia and other territories that was lost. He was not successful, fled to Egypt and died there. Sparta never again attempted to recover her former glory and system.
Yep. The loss of Messenia immediately took Sparta out of the Premiership into a lower league
Nabis 'The Tyrant'
Thank You again for a wonderful upload :D
Probably the only video I've ever watched that talks about the Sacred Band that didn't mention they were lovers. I wonder why
That... was fast man. GREAT JOB!
As a Greek and a nationalst one I am one of the few left knowing my country's history so well. Alloud me to add some points for all history lovers outhere:
1) Its an irony that Epaminondas and Pelopidas years before, were saved in battle by a Spartan king.
2) Also its very interesting to follow the evolution of Greek warfare. From the homerical warrior > to the city of Argos which invented the phallanx tactic > The Spartans who master it > The great Athenian Iphicrates and his introduction of the peltasts in order to harass the cohesion of the phallanx > to the Oblique order of the Thebeans and > finally the Macedonian form of phallanx. Persians were unfortunate to face Greek military evolution of centuries. At its peak! Commanded by one of the greatest tactician mind of all time (if not THE greatest).
3) Also i must add that king Phillip was "hostage" of the Thebeans and he learned a lot from Epaminondas and Pelopidas.
4) 362 bc and when Epaminondas died, someone told him " U are dying childless Epaminondas". He replied "No. I have 2 daughters. Leuctra and Mantinea".
5) It was a form of Oblique order that Alexander used in his masterpiece battle. Gaugamela. They are many say that Epaminontas was happy seing from the sky Alexander using a form of his invention in such a large scale in such a historical battle.
6) We stil used the phrase "Tommorow the importants" in Greece. Its the phrase that Αrchias, the local pro-Spartan oligargh ruler replied to a messenger when the late tried to inform him that Epaminondas and Pelopidas have returned from Athens and they were ploting to assasinated him the next day. He was busy at a symposium that night. "But its important" the messenger told him. "Tommorow the importants" Archias replied. The next day he and the rest of the oligarchs were killed by the democrats.
7) Αccording to the laws of Lucourgos the Spartans were avoiding to give many battles with the same enemy from fear that the enemy will become better and they will find a way to beat them. "Today Thebeans payed you their fees for teaching them how to fight" Antalcidas said to king Agesilaus once the king with a lot of wounds in his body, returned in Sparta after a battle with the Thebeans.
"if not THE greatest"
Nah, the greatest is Napoléon. No, I don't say that because I'm french :p
Funnily, King Friedrich II of Prussia also used an oblique order, almost 2000 years later. It was no more phalanx but line ifantry, however the principle was the same, renforcing a wing and sending it first to have an overwhelming local superiority, and then turning (thanks to the highly trained prussian army) to flank the ennemy army and have, again, superiority with the rest of the army slowly marching to combat. And it worked perfectly well on austrian armies in Leuthen ^^
@@krankarvolund7771 "no, I don't say that because I'm French"
Suuuure you don't.... ;)
Debates as to the greatest general of all time are pretty tiresome anyway. Different times, different resources, different enemies, different technology, different geography... It's impossible to state who the best is without pretending those other factors don't exist.
@@arthurfisher1857 Well, Napoleon did fight more battles than several of his concurrent, but yeah, it's really very complicated to compare. I think it's safer to just said that there's an elite club of elite tacticians who count (at least) Caüs Juilius Caesar, Hannibal Barca, Alexander the Great, Friedrich the Great and Napoleon ^^
@@krankarvolund7771 I'd add a few more to that list, but yes, I agree with that
@@arthurfisher1857 Yeah, certainly, it was just the first I have in minde (very centerd on Europe, by the way ^^)
Spartan commander: - Okay, guys lets sing that war-song...!
Spartan scout: - Commander, the enemy is pushing hard on our right.
Spartan commander: - Fancy a beer? Anyone?
I never clicked so fast on a notification
Excellent. Thank you.
The Spartans were already in decline by the battle. The loss guaranteed that the Spartans would never be a power again. By the 4th Century, Sparta' s mighty military had less resources and fewer fighters. A society that depended on soldiers was dealing with a reality of a dwindling Spartiate class.
not really i would say it was Mantinea that did that.
But they still had influence for a long time after Mantinea II
I waited years for a Spartan video and you give me only spartan defeats..... great glad i waited for this
The left wing of Sparta's army were reluctant allies, the moment they saw the king die many just booked it for home.
Thebes wanted to rout the Spartans who were escaping but Athens of all people convinced them to stop
These videos are better than any history class I had at school
*searches for a Persepolis Rising joke in the comments* *doesn't find one*
*cough*
"The surrender of the Transport Union and the Earth-Mars Coalition to High Admiral Anton Trejo of the Empire of Laconia, Battle of Point Leuctra, between the orbits of Mars and Jupiter, circa 2395. Colorized"
Amazing videos as always! Thanks again
Please, do a video about the battle of vienna
I love your videos man. They entertain me. Thanks for making them.
BazBattles, Kings and Generals and HistoryMarche all upload a video on the same day? Is this real life?
No.
THIS! IS! SPART- oh, and we're dead.
Never mind ...
Is this just fantasy?
Merci pour votre travail.
Thanks for your job.
At the end, I think you was suposed to write 11.000 men total for Sparta (not 1100).
Yes he said it in the top comment about that mistake!
@@Bithros Yes! Just 6 minutes after me. Thanks!
@@Antaragni2012 maybe you helped him to noticed that ☺️
@@Bithros I hope so! As I love his masterpieces. :)
Were*
This channel should have 1.4 million billion people watching!
Those summary cards at the end always disappear just a little too soon.
Thanks for the video Baz... 🇬🇷 ❤
i came here with just 10 views, after i watched the video its already 2k
Hell yeah! Wasn’t expecting this today! Love BazBattles!!! :D
I’m a simple man I see BazBattles ,I click
A wealth of information and knowledge!
Modern liberals: "Make love not war"
Theban Sacred Band: "We do both"
Remind me again, wasn't it liberal President Obama who lifted the ban of openly gay/transgender troops in the US military, something President Bonespurs and his conservative lackeys want to end?
The sad thing is that you don't understand the Greek world and the words that you read you think the old Greek word of lovers means to make love no it doesn't mean that. They were teachers and the others were boys who learned from them how to live.
Another great video by Baz Battle the Magnificent!
the sacred band of thebes strikes again. No one stops the legion of male lovers. Undefeated till Phillip the 2nd (Alexander the greats dad) destroyed them
Undefeated until someone anihilates them. Well, that kinda sums up about everyone.
@@nottoday3817 You not just go and annihilate someone. It takes time, it takes effort.
Love learning about the Spartans 😁👍
Important to note that the idea of "pushing" is controversial. Some authors emphasize that rather than a push, armies would periodically clash, fall back, then fight again as they took breaks to recover their strength. The rear ranks of the Thebans, under that interpretation, would have provided vital moral support to the soldiers in the front, who would feel that they were supported, and this gives them an edge over the relatively less numerous Spartans.
And perhaps also replace the fallen, no? Spartians, viewing that they have a lot of thebans to kill would be discouraged.
Yeah, I've always been wondering how helpful massing troops so deep could really be if it all came down to pushing. I mean what are the rear ranks going to do exactly? Squeeze the front ranks into mush?
@@antred11 > Squeeze the front ranks into mush
Exactly. Dunno about line relief in hoplite phalanx, but romans implemented it - so rear ranks were a reserve of fresh troops.
There is only one way to find out the truth. I propose we use condemned criminals.
Best visuellised History Channel on RUclips.
Sparta: We are unstoppable!!!
Thebes: I'm about to end this state's whole life
They would have won if the king didn't have the strategic mind of a potato
@@informationyes Your efforts would have been crowned with success if you had managed to speak proper English.
@@goosequillian call me the village dunce but would you care to explain my good fellow
@@informationyes They would have won if the king HADN'T HAD* the strategic mind of a potato.*
Ironically, grammar could be considered a strategy, which the Spartan king would have bested.
@@goosequillian mmm isn't the sentence just a simple past negative? anyway this is the internet you would be luck if basic spelling is correct.
I don't know Grammar is only a strategy in how its complex but either way is going to help him win a battle, he should have spent less time writing and more time doing battle planning.
Thanks for the music... now the waves of nostalgia are forcing me to reinstall and play Rome Total War :p
Sacred band is invincible! They will aim their spears forward while their lover have their backside!
This is Sparta! Good video.
Spartiates were known to be homosexual, so thebes created the sacred band to be even more gay and win the battle 😭
dont betrippin they had a ‘gay off’ so to speak
it's not established what the relationship between the partners was, given how ambiguous ancient Greeks were about terms like "lover". The Spartans had similar relationships in their ranks, but they were never trained together like the Sacred Band was.
I will only watch Baz Battles with this narrator, no others. Like watching old NFL shows with John Facenda.
High praise indeed!
*witty comment for likes*
Amazing as Always!
Can you make korean war ?
Someone definitly should do the Korean War. On the strategic layer, it's utterly insane.
yes please make a video about Korean War
> korean war
Which one?
I love this channel
Excellent work!! Keep it up.
"Make a line and advance"
The Spartan strategy
I think you need to do some more research of Spartan Tactics
I'm loving this mini-series, keep up the good work.
I don't need to know this stuff but the videos are just so interesting and well made...