The real human meaning is achievement, overcoming adversity, finding something that makes you obsessed, misunderstood in the pursuit of excellence, and so much more.
"along the way" lifestyle is just a liberal humanism mythology. You don't see it from the inside. AI is going to make new stories for us. Maybe better ones?
Good summary of Vervaeke's work. Agreed. Aristocrats and bourgeois didn't suffer a meaning crisis for centuries despite not having a job. Wage labour is nowadays the major way for most people to have both a revenue and a social status. People are afraid to lose both if they lose their job. Those who think they're protected from AI deflation are also afraid that they'd have to pay for the jobless. Those who will grow in a society without wage labour are likely to consider it natural and will probably be horrified of today's wage labour.
Part of me is really really worried about the near future and the negative effects ai will cause. Another part of me is stoked because there's a very real possibility I see UBI in my lifetime and am the first in my lineage to have the ability to live comfortably and explore interests full-time.
very interesting and well done Dave, i am a recent retiree at 60, and evolved through the career cycle of belonging to something bigger in the corporations I worked for. To now reaching my own goals of when is "enough, enough" to be able to exit the daily super "important" tasks, to now enjoying the minutiae of growing a garden, spending time with grandchildren and elder parents, planning some travel. thanks - from a recovering work-a-holic to engaged post-nihilist
The work and building some independence was worth it, as a younger person I had the energy to do the work, now realize I made others wealthy along the way taking care of the details, and set myself up financially.
If you struggle with meaning, focus on doing what brings you the most excitement and act upon it as long as it does, follow this thread and you find your calling, even if the first thing you acted upon has nothing to do with the outcome. It will get you there!
Ancient centres of higher education that are by all means called universities today existed in India much earlier. For example Taxila (500BCE) & Nalanda (500CE) are where many gathered to monks gathered to study. These were monastry university hybrids & mostly focused on religious & probably architectural studies. I'm sure other civilizations must have had similar places of higher education as well.
Really good stuff! Broad, deep, and thought provoking...always curious to see what your next videos are about. This was an exceptionally good surprise.
Wow! Thank you for collating and producing this with all these juicy ideas. I thoroughly enjoyed listening to you logically and eloquently work through them one by one. My ears pricked up when you mentioned the 13th draft of your post scarcity, utopia novel. Is there anymore information you can give about it? Please keep us posted, and keep up the great work!!
Postnihilism is just shallow meaning based in hedonic wellbeing. Shallow happiness still leads back to nihilism once the side effects of hedonism are fully realized.
yep meaning is connected to doing(reaching goals) and that is connected to energy. In world when we have more and more possibilities and at same time everything is harder to do (due competition, resources, wars, crisis etc) more ppl losing meaning cuz no matter what we do results can parrish in a second. But A.I. give huge leap in energy demand (also time of know-how as energy) so not only we can keep up, but after singularity we could do truly want we want, without need to find meaning to justifice energy lost of doing, as everything could be achived without cost. Still we need to learn to charrish it
A criticism: Meaning becomes especially necessary when we are in pain. Meaning makes suffering bearable; and without it, I suspect a postnihilist is likely to regress back to a nihilist. I think a philosophy needs to thoroughly address the problem of suffering.
I completely agree that a key element of a good philosophy is that it helps address the problem of suffering. I believe postnihilism may be able to do so by allowing individuals to incorporate their suffering into their personal meaning and mission. A postnihilist may develop a meaning/mission for themselves and be on a path and then experience deep suffering incongruent with their meaning/mission. That postnihilist could then reassess and redefine what is meaningful to them in a way that incorporates their suffering. This incorporation has the effect of alleviating the suffering because there is now meaning in the suffering. A real life example may be Victor Frankl finding meaning in his suffering by making it his mission to teach others the lessons learned through his suffering. I would love to hear David's thoughts on the problem of suffering as he has no doubt thought more deeply about it than I have.
It’s mind-boggling that you’d skip ancient Israel and Judeia, its rich and written cannon and the laid out value system is what shaped the western world philosophy as we know it, and it’s the only culture that actually survived from those times. 5:07
Victor Frankl would argue based on his personal testing in the field. Also worth considering, the honor of Kamakazee (meaning through suicide) was also a deep part of Japanese culture.
That had more to do with the death cult of nationalism and imperialism at the time. And also, that was specific to the Warrior Class of Japanese society (samurai) which has also drastically changed.
Small detail but it's not the first time: It's incredible how you overblown the importance of postmodernism as if it ever was a relevant way of thinking, even in the elite. You parrot the bullet points of the transgender activist without questioning them ever. The staggering majority of people alive and from the past build their culture around the two sexes and their archetype, especially the Eastern cultures that you love so much. If one thing, the extremely rare case of tribes that supposedly (from anthropologist activists) represent more than two genders simply prove that no culture survive or thrive with those ideas.
First: great job - exciting topic and interesting conclusions. I am glad that you focused on fundamental issues, primarily the gravity of human existence, without excursions into ethical and moral issues, which adds nothing to the discussion, and from which many people cannot mentally separate themselves. The question of the individual search for meaning was already being pushed by Renaissance humanism. Nihil novi sub sole. The deeper thought is to derive satisfaction from the absurdity of the situation we find ourselves in. Camus wrote brilliantly about this in his essay "The Myth of Sisyphus". Sisyphus, going down to pick up a stone that slips out of his hands, knows that this effort does not lead to any meaningful goal. His work is a manifestation of rebellion, resisting despair and taking pride in the fact that absurdity has no power over him. As Camus wrote: "one must imagine Sisyphus happy".
I'm not convinced the desire for meaning is entirely rooted in religious history. In fact, I think the two are both manifestations of a common third factor, which derives from the evolutionary benefit of possessing such a desire.
Thanks for this great description of Postnihilism etc. Much of it agrees with my own worldview and makes good sense to me. My current belief system differs somewhat in that, although Postnihilism is progress in the right direction, it doesn't currently seem adequate. I think a worldview or philosophy _does_ need to integrate the self into society in some fundamental way. Even if that integration is something individually focused, such as a student in college, that is directed towards integration with society in the future. I suspect that many of our societal problems are the result of a collective failure to create or popularize an adequate worldview. Personally I think that we need this in a very practical way. How can we think of the world in a way that values not only individual diversity and freedom of evolution, but also holism and harmony? There is certainly no way to achieve these (sometimes conflicting) goals perfectly. I personally don't think any of the philosophies are really quite adequate. I always end up thinking about Metasystem Transitions, which then reminds me of the Borg. Clearly that's excessive "harmony". But I suspect that within a decade or two, it will be common for many augmented humans to have a philosophy and literal worldview that almost directly incorporates the viewpoints of many individuals. Also there might be something weird going on with my psychology because I feel like I am excessively contrarian. Like, you're wearing a Star Trek uniform which is awesome, and coincidentally I end up talking like maybe I am already in the Borg Collective. Which happens to be the enemy of the Federation. Anyway, sorry, love the video and ideas, maybe always taking a contrary stance is some subconscious behavior that constantly reinforces isolation.
The point to me of coming up with a system to overcome the loss of meaning is to have it function for the large proportion of less self-reflective folks who can’t come up with this stuff on their own. In that sense this isn’t enough. If it was then there wouldn’t be a nihilistic crisis in Japan today.
Thanks David. I have been working on similar ideas and published a book called “Reality and its Representation” in 2020. I have been working since then on another called “Knowledge and The Simple Life” since then. “Knowledge and the Simple Life deals with with how to live when knowledge has been incorporated into a general machine. I agree about the usefulness of Eastern Philosophies in this scenario. I have used your coding tools, thanks for that work also.
AI is going to hammer the entertainment industry. I feel bad for those who work in that space, and they will definitely have to adapt, but I don't see a future where people are going to pay other people to be entertained when AI/tech can provide the same entertainment on a much grander scale for almost no cost to the person(s) being entertained. Think script writers, actors, extras, special affects personnel, stunt people, speech writers, editors, etc... I don't see any company paying MORE for something when that something could be replaced for much less. I see an industry with more focus on live performances/shows with real people, and the TV/movie industry being %75 AI driven/generated within 10-15 years. We have all witnessed the CGI in movies get better and better over the years. It has already replaced some people in the industry. It feels like it is only going to increase, no matter how the people directly involved feel about it, the machine (in this case, popular entertainment for cheap, but made by machines) steamrolls on.
100% also going to be true for most visual artists and musicians in general. Although both these arts may be more durable because we like the idea of human visual art and live performance in music
Think about the endgame - generating entire movies faster than we can watch them, fully personalized based on a simple prompt like Stable Diffusion images. Maybe at some point you won't even have to come up with the prompt - the algorithm could just learn what you like or what you would enjoy at the moment based on just brainwaves. Instead of preparing entire story in advance, it could adjust to your emotional reactions, so if the pacing is too fast it could slow down, if it's too slow it could do something sudden etc. It's also going to destroy game industry. Imagine generating fully personalized video game based on a prompt alone. It's customization of media to your taste that would make this kind of content unbeatable.
Great video! I agree with the basic framework of the ideas, but I think I need to see how it develops and is applied before I can really agree or disagree. It would be interesting to explore this idea through some psychological theories (Victor Frankl comes to mind).
@[David Shapiro ~ AI] Ikigai is another useful framework. Ikigai (生き甲斐, lit. 'a reason for being') is a Japanese concept referring to something that gives a person a sense of purpose, a reason for living. My recommended approach: 1. Define your Ikigai today. 2. Live and work based on that Ikigai definition. 3. When your Ikigai no longer fulfills you, go to step 1. Search for `ikigai` in your favorite image search engine and check the images for the Venn diagram that shows the intersection of the four main components of Ikigai.
All the ideas that the mind creates are somehow entertaining and lead to an infinite number of different paths, all of which ultimately lead to nowhere. This is also true for the 2500 years history of western philosophy. Interesting in many ways, but thinking will not be able to find a permanent solution to the crisis described. We will keep going in circles until we question the mechanics of the mind itself and our identification with it. Most people I know believe their own thoughts without ever considering the possibility of their utter insignificance and arbitrariness. What is that which perceives these thoughts? The answer is also the solution to our apparent problems.
I have spent a lot of time over the years thinking about the logistics of living forever, different possibilities, generally framed as a heaven of sorts but from a non-religious framework. That is given a way to combat entropy indefinitely and have biological immortality how would we live our lives. Whether or not you believe this could be man-made or from some natural afterlife doesn't really matter, it's how and what we would do with our time. I think what I've noticed is largely what you've lead to, going after more fundamental needs such as biological and Maslow's hierarchy etc., but also if we have such a mastery of biology to let ourselves live forever, we'll either be able to adjust ourselves in other ways, or have the time to figure out how to do so. We will no longer just be able to cater to our wants of all kinds, but we'll be able to change our wants and needs as we will. What if I gather up a list of all the things I like, hiking, laying in bed, playing video games, gardening, hugging my partner, and re-adjust my body to continue to enjoy those things for longer and with deeper feeling than I could without adjusting myself? I'd still be "me" in that I haven't changed my wants, just adjusted my ability to not tire from them, say preventing my legs from falling asleep from uncomfortable resting positions and adjusting my sense of time such that I could lay in bed for days or weeks feeling comfortable. Or the opposite for gardening or hiking, adapting myself to not tire out or have my knees get sore from kneeling and walking. We can circumvent addiction entirely in such a scenario, manipulating our senses to like such activities at the maximum best personal perceptions of that activity, with whatever fluctuations in that feeling we need or want to keep it interesting, and avoiding the adjustment our brains naturally have towards tolerance of increased exposure to an activity or substance. On it's own this could be super addicting, but if we engineer ourselves to cycle through our preferred activities, or have natural cooldown periods which could be engineered to completely skip the withdrawal process, I don't see the problem. My last note is it'd be interesting to see what other people think of the memory problem, unless we can find a way to store an infinite datacenter for each person that can conjure any memories on demand we're going to have to cut memories as we go on. Personally I'd want to keep at least a few thousand of my first years or whatever max size is reasonably feasible, a set of my top memories of each activity I have ever found pleasant, a better sense of memory than I have now for the most recent 100,000 or so years. Beyond that a general sense of concept-ness around everything I like, that is as I experience something I will ultimately forget past that 100,000 year mark, the experience is still added as data to adjust my concept of what that activity is. I would also like the ability to temporarily forget or first-time relive certain things, re-tasting my favorite food or re-watching my favorite movie for the first time, and when i'm done I can re-remember those other times. I'm sure lots of people would like that for role-play scenarios, either IRL or in VR, being able to live a fantasy as your first life would be a massively appealing thing that could be quite common, people telling other's they'll be on vacation for 10, 100, 1000 years living out a totally lived in experience. I can imagine whole communities built around that, as well as all the complex ethics and safeguards that would have to be considered if it was more than one "person" in the fantasy. There's a lot more things related to that in how I imagine it could go, I tried to stop myself but couldn't help alluding to some points where the possibilities and guidelines to consider clearly go crazy so please understand this is in no way the edges of my thought processes on how things should ultimately be for myself, others, or this theoretical society. I'm sure there's a lot of things i've reached wrong conclusions/solutions for, and I accept and expect criticism to keep improving so please do throw your critical comments at me. But just keep in mind if you see a flaw in something here and choose to respond saying why that's a problem, I'd appreciate before you write your own long rebuttal to that part to just comment "Hey did you consider/could you expand on subject X?". Because I really can't emphasize enough I have shortened and cut so much stuff i've considered in here. And I'd like to respect both our time, yours by not having you write a rebuttal that is actually something I agree with but couldn't clarify in this comment, and my own time as I don't want to have us go in circles trying to pin down what exactly you're asking me to expand on. If some things there sound too utopian that is kind of intentional as I'm tired and don't want to write a whole essay right now about everything I've considered and yet I kind of already have. Although to a large degree yes it is unbelievably utopian, the starting premise of beating entropy forever/indefinitely might be just a dream, and I don't believe there will be any sort of natural afterlife. But as I stressed in the start whether it could happen, and how we'd live if we could are different questions, and as you said in your video what i've been focusing on when I think of is "entertaining the idea without believing it". There's other practical aspects to how i'd like to engineer my body such as if i'm going to live forever i'd like to minimize or cut to zero the amount of time I spend on the toilet which apart from being gross would be an infinite waste of time, and other such concerns would be coming first before perfect pleasure/leisure of my choosing.
In twenty years I can't wait for post-post... Where we all just stop eating cereal 😅 Bad jokes aside, I grew up in Cali, and in college discovered and fell in love with the absurdism and storytelling of Anime. It dovetailed so nicely with learning about postmodernism in college, and reflected a lot of my struggles between the beliefs of my upbringing vs the reality of school and the workplace that I was confronted with. As a young adult I moved to the Midwest... And it really is true what they say that the Midwest really is 20-30 years behind the coasts. And that isn't entirely a bad thing. I actually appreciate that when my kids were young we had far more realistic options to raise our kids with similar lifestyle and upbringing that my wife and I had. I think that especially for young kids, that very traditional boring stability of a home life instead of growing up in daycare is super healthy. The trick however is to not stay there. My kids are fast approaching middle school, so now it is all about tearing down the assumptions made from childhood, and unveiling reality. It is such a balance of showing intent, ideals, and grappling with changing philosophy better than I did.
Perhaps, the work of Lisa Feldman might be a good suggestion. She’s the most cited researcher on the topic of emotions. A quick search on RUclips will show lots of interviews. Her book ‘How Emotions Are Made’ is a good starting point.
I came to think of how the meaning of something is dependent on something else. So for example the meaning of all of reality as a whole is undefinable since then there isn't something else able to give it meaning.
David, I love the content and presentation of this video! All of your stuff is well done, but your recent trend toward big picture historical presentations has been fantastic. I agree that the context of how we got to this point is critical to the task of developing real solutions. I have been studying these same ideas for many years and applaud the way you summarized years of acquired wisdom into such a short presentation. Excellent work! Cheers!
it's hard to reach transcendence if one kept hanging on to rationality. rationality still is important, but there is something beyond it that one must discover themself. try to keep rationality in the back pocket and experience life without it. once you discover that 'something', transcendence is what you get when you integrate rationality back.
Hi David. I think you have outdone yourself with this offering. You've summed up in a single video, what it means to be human, Anyone interested in historical references to Postmodernism, Freud, Darwin and other styles or concepts need to watch this.
i agree, and your comment gives me a little solace that another human is looking for this knowledge. Makes me think we can figure this out together. Wait, you're a human not a bot, right?
good hint from Japan culture, rised in pursue every new gadget (in transition from analog era to digital) i was suprised how much respect they have for old/retro tech, and it's not only trend for preservation, but as you said coming from appreciation of certain moment in time and all effort combain that manifest in certain item (even if it's inperfect, even if there is new around corner)
Good argument about post AI or post nihilism but I disagree with the narrative of there might be no meaningful global existence. meaning from individual experience is true but we can also still have global existence. Once we can become multi planetary species, I am sure there will be still communities required and hence lots of social meaning will do exist
To many factors in long term. Many possible outcomes. Teach him basics, and see how it unfolds over time, because most likely your predictions from now will be off. Compassion, creativity and so on will still be extremely valuable. Being a good human being is a timeless skill.
You should also read Susan Wolf's book Meaning in Life and Why It Matters. It adds interesting considerations along the lines of the sources of intrinsic meaning you discussed. I think the big problem is just with the idea of cosmic and trans-human, trans-social social meaning. Meaning doesn't have to mean that.
My mind has been going through a transition to post nihilism, letting go of meaning and narrative and focusing on life as a journey of ephemeral moments. It's really freeing, I warmly recommend it to everyone. Points for the obscure George Carlin reference at the end there - always loved that joke!
Been there, done that, not in such a broad and articulate manner, but still :) It seems to me that one of the keys here is to acknowledge and grok that we're not a single point of consciousness (as we like to think), but we're a blob of stuff and contexts, and what we're proudly calling "I" is just the tip of the iceberg riding on gods know how deep mountain of what we call subconsciousness (for the lack of a better word). And then the "I" is not just the thing that thinks that thinks, but conglomerate of processes inside (voices in our heads) and, depending on development level we achieved (Spiral Dynamics was mentioned here, but there are similar models, and they say very similar thing) - we are what we identify with: family, societal groups, ethnicity, etc. I am "me", a father, an IT techie, polish, man, human, mammal, alive, matter - most of the people alive today would stop somewhere about nationality/ethnicity level, which is convenient for the powers that be, but without moving forward we'll be dead soon enough, as we can't stay where we are now collectively, it's just not sustainable. And the point is that meaning is defined for each of our identities separately (although they may overlap to significant extend). And even if "I" feels lost and meaningless, all the other context do not share it necessarily - it is possible to be lost on one level, but well adapted and accomplished on other levels. Recognizing that meaning can be networked - or shared within particular groups of people we feel like we belong with - removes huge part of the necessity for external source of Meaning (like God, etc). Holonic... holonized meaning :) Sorry for the chaotic brain dump, but my overclocked mind got really inspired by this video and felt the need to share, for what it's worth ;)
Do no harm, don't destruct things. Make the world a better place to live in. Don't waste (to much) time. Respect your body. Give others also some space. Help others with there journey.
Id like to be in the smoking pot and gaming with my friends category and I promise to leave everyone else alone lol another awesome vid I appreciate what your doing, keep it up!
The fundamental problem is still that of decision and direction. Which stems from nihilism, but the nihilistic and meaning aspect is not important, it is only the direction that is important. You can pose post-nihilism but you still have to choose to accept it and go in that direction. And you don't have to choose it. There is no indication to choose it. It leads to a more 'prosperous', functioning and 'happier' society. But then you are choosing those things, when there is still no indication to do so. People can still arbitrarily choose for anything. Such as outright instant hedonism or suicide or whatever else. You still have that choice and that creates a stumbling point as every possible direction is equally meaningless. Post-nihilism is still meaningless because nihilism states that happiness and such things are irrelevant. Any other statement is a clearly a complete rejection of nihilism and nihilistic truth. The problem is not that of it being meaningless but in there being no reason to choose it that isn't arbitrary. People could potentially move past meaningless, but afterwards you're still left with nothing. Because nihilism always voids all possible directions. Every way forward is that of complete equal arbitration. Akin to throwing a dice to decide where to go. For lack of direction, you could just try to take none. You are then left just following basic human drives, making you the same as rock flowing down a river. You close your eyes and make no choice and let nature take you where it may. But then you realize that is still a choice. There is no answer or way past nihilism, there is no post-nihilism because nihilism is the end point of philosophy. It is destructive and chaotic, sure, but that does not mean it is wrong. What you do after nihilism is irrelevant and arbitrary. True post-nihilism is just people doing whatever. Doing whatever not guided by philosophy or a story or a narrative, unless they decide to make one up, to lie to themselves; but having a made-up story you live by is just as whatever as not having one. If AGI hits and post-scarcity occurs, the world will do whatever after that point. Some will be miserable, some will be happy, as always, and it doesn't matter either way.
Good video, and I agree with most of your points, but the real problem with AI (in my opinion) is the existential crisis. The rest we can sort out over time.
It may in the optimum outcome foster an epicurean or hedonistic lifestyle. It may eventually allow the best of humanity to come to the fore. I don’t however believe that it will happen for everyone, perhaps at the end of the turmoil, maybe. Even if the doomers are wrong, their fears will probably at least be partially realized.
I think the results of a mostly workless society have 3 types of people. Those who embrace it, take advantage of the free time to create new types of art, and entertainment, in general, enjoy life (I create Indie games, and would love to spend time crafting those), those who just sit around, and do nothing, pretty much the people that do that now, then the elites or people that thrive on power and control, these people will continue to look for ways to be in control, via special AI, specific business etc. Right now, if you were to turn off the internet, there is a large part group of people in the world that would be way more devastated than say someone my age (39) because all they know is life with the internet, whereas it would suck for me, but I have other things I could do to feel productive or in general happy. All in all I think Human Meaning has been decreasing before AI, and I think it will increase more and more when we can stop working jobs that don't have meaning to us. Anywho great work as always, enjoy all this info.
2/3 people in my family are unemployed because they are old retired baby boomers. They seem to be very happy. They they generally are either in some sort of yoga class or traveling on vacation. I swear they attend 3 different yoga or workout or art classes a day.
I'm in my late 20's; born into a LDS house hold. I left the religion because of the hypocrisy of their beliefs. With the world always changing I've come to the realization that the last thing humans can retain is their spirituality in whatever they believe to be true. Unfortunately most humans live in a state of ignorance; creating a scale of spirituality that is based off fear. I'm doing my best to find the truths in my own spirituality without religion. Unfortunately I'm not sure how many others will be doing the same. Humans need cults to feel a part of something.
I saw a video of Metamodernism as a movement manifesting after postmodernism. It's about media and stories, but it resonates much with what you are proposing, I think.
Great video as always. I think the Buddhist texts Heart Sutra can serve as a compass for our minds in the post-AGI world, especially if we want to push beyond the fiction (ie. meaning of life/existence) we self-impose as an individual and as a species.
I discovered your channel a week ago, and since then, I've been binge-watching from the beginning. I've enjoyed every video so far, except this one. I found some contradictions in it. You started by criticizing Peterson for wanting to go back to the 'old ways,' but then advocated how Eastern religion has wisdom that can still be applied to our time, which is essentially what Peterson says about Christianity. It seems like you're against the old ways only when they're Western. Also, you argue that meaning isn't necessary, which I disagree with. Meaning is instinctual. It comes from something you find interesting; you don't control it, it 'grabs' your attention. You might think meaning isn't necessary, but you've already found your meaning in computer science, A.I., Sci-Fi, philosophy, etc. This applies to others as well.
why would going "back" not work? When you incorrectly code something and have to revert to a previous version, this is not considered bad since at least the previous code performed the desired action while the new code is incapable of solving the issue. Just solve the problems in the new code - one may say. Why not apply that mindset to the previous "old" code instead of trying to reinvent everything to gain a function instead of just fixing the original code? Our new philosophies tend to leave people depressed and suicidal. We can either go back to something that maintained society for many millennia or try to double down on the (very) new version and adjust it while it continues to output highly negative results.
The only truth we can be 100% certain to be *true* is our own conciousness. I am sure that my conciousness is thinking this, that I, as a conscious being exist. Even if everything is just a simulation and everyone and everything is just an illusion I am certain of my existence and, if you're are real, you are certain too while reading this. So it only makes sense we try to find comfort and peace in the only thing we know to be true, our unique and ephemeral existence.
I cant help but wonder how AGI will interact with society and post nihilism. We might be out here creating a New Religiois Movement (all praise the AI cult 😂). But in all seriousness, if a benevolent super intelligence creates utopia for humanity, it could be characterized as a modern redeemer (aka tech Jesus)
Creating meaning and enjoying the simple things isn’t actually the same things.. coming to terms with todays changes isn’t always going to be equal to personal growth. One of the biggest issues with society is that they aren’t interested in exploring their internal world and then settling for superficial appearances.
I think people will begin to understand what is going to happen to the world when we see something like driving jobs disappearing as rapidly as automobiles replaced horses (that took about ten years). With millions unemployed and unable to find work, because there simply isn't any need for more workers, the government will be faced with a problem that requires a fundimental change to how our society works.
"the dignity of labor" I found no dignity working for corporations. so i left. and now i can't go back. it would destroy me. just a bit too much bs i couldn't endure anymore. sad. i loved what i did. they just wouldn't let me do it lol. endless useless meetings, bean bags, and giant Jenga.
David said on 34:24 only you have is the current moment of time........ 34:31 that's all you've got. I disagree. I have now and a future. Which future I will experience depends partly on my actions now and of course my actions in my past. "My future me depends on my future now".
The real human meaning was the friends we made along the way.
I have no friends :(
The real human meaning is achievement, overcoming adversity, finding something that makes you obsessed, misunderstood in the pursuit of excellence, and so much more.
@@xXMsCarlyXx awe, I sorry to hear that! At least you have this community.
The real human meaning was the AI we made along the way.
"along the way" lifestyle is just a liberal humanism mythology. You don't see it from the inside. AI is going to make new stories for us. Maybe better ones?
Good summary of Vervaeke's work.
Agreed. Aristocrats and bourgeois didn't suffer a meaning crisis for centuries despite not having a job.
Wage labour is nowadays the major way for most people to have both a revenue and a social status.
People are afraid to lose both if they lose their job. Those who think they're protected from AI deflation are also afraid that they'd have to pay for the jobless.
Those who will grow in a society without wage labour are likely to consider it natural and will probably be horrified of today's wage labour.
Love Vervaeke! Great comment, I totally agree.
Would be interesting if we could get a conversation between you an Vervaeke. Especially because he just released his new book on A.I. and humanity.
@@mmafighterdp3263
People involved in AI research really need to listen to Vervaeke and read about wisdom. That's what we're lacking most.
"Aristocrats and bourgeois didn't have jobs" sure is a take
Part of me is really really worried about the near future and the negative effects ai will cause. Another part of me is stoked because there's a very real possibility I see UBI in my lifetime and am the first in my lineage to have the ability to live comfortably and explore interests full-time.
I'm 18 will I see it
I guess we all have a different opinion of what "live comfortably" will look like. You have learned of supply and demand after this pandemic right?
@@unkind6070Yes. As long as you don’t die within the next year or so.
In all of human history, I doubt UBI will be as comfortable as you think.
very interesting and well done Dave, i am a recent retiree at 60, and evolved through the career cycle of belonging to something bigger in the corporations I worked for. To now reaching my own goals of when is "enough, enough" to be able to exit the daily super "important" tasks, to now enjoying the minutiae of growing a garden, spending time with grandchildren and elder parents, planning some travel. thanks - from a recovering work-a-holic to engaged post-nihilist
I‘d love to hear more about your story :)
Looking back, was all that work worth it? I mean, did the money and status you chased when you were younger mean anything after you retired?
The work and building some independence was worth it, as a younger person I had the energy to do the work, now realize I made others wealthy along the way taking care of the details, and set myself up financially.
University is way before Renaissance. The first was the Bologne University in 1080, then Paris had it's own in 1150.
Hustle culture not getting enough sleep and working yourself to death is massicism
If you struggle with meaning, focus on doing what brings you the most excitement and act upon it as long as it does, follow this thread and you find your calling, even if the first thing you acted upon has nothing to do with the outcome. It will get you there!
i.e Constantly chase for dopamine hits until you discover "enlightenment"
Ancient centres of higher education that are by all means called universities today existed in India much earlier. For example Taxila (500BCE) & Nalanda (500CE) are where many gathered to monks gathered to study. These were monastry university hybrids & mostly focused on religious & probably architectural studies. I'm sure other civilizations must have had similar places of higher education as well.
Really good stuff! Broad, deep, and thought provoking...always curious to see what your next videos are about. This was an exceptionally good surprise.
Wow! Thank you for collating and producing this with all these juicy ideas. I thoroughly enjoyed listening to you logically and eloquently work through them one by one. My ears pricked up when you mentioned the 13th draft of your post scarcity, utopia novel. Is there anymore information you can give about it? Please keep us posted, and keep up the great work!!
Postnihilism is just shallow meaning based in hedonic wellbeing. Shallow happiness still leads back to nihilism once the side effects of hedonism are fully realized.
"some people rather die then lose their job".
AI powered drug Discovery can help us with better antidepressants.
What civilizations have considered gender fluidity normal? I ask this with genuine curiosity and without malignant intent.
Great Video. The fact that you could break all of this down in one take shows how passionate you are about this. And this passion is contagious!
I believe youre ahead of the curve here david, i really resonated with this one.
yep meaning is connected to doing(reaching goals) and that is connected to energy. In world when we have more and more possibilities and at same time everything is harder to do (due competition, resources, wars, crisis etc) more ppl losing meaning cuz no matter what we do results can parrish in a second. But A.I. give huge leap in energy demand (also time of know-how as energy) so not only we can keep up, but after singularity we could do truly want we want, without need to find meaning to justifice energy lost of doing, as everything could be achived without cost. Still we need to learn to charrish it
A criticism: Meaning becomes especially necessary when we are in pain. Meaning makes suffering bearable; and without it, I suspect a postnihilist is likely to regress back to a nihilist. I think a philosophy needs to thoroughly address the problem of suffering.
I completely agree that a key element of a good philosophy is that it helps address the problem of suffering.
I believe postnihilism may be able to do so by allowing individuals to incorporate their suffering into their personal meaning and mission. A postnihilist may develop a meaning/mission for themselves and be on a path and then experience deep suffering incongruent with their meaning/mission. That postnihilist could then reassess and redefine what is meaningful to them in a way that incorporates their suffering. This incorporation has the effect of alleviating the suffering because there is now meaning in the suffering.
A real life example may be Victor Frankl finding meaning in his suffering by making it his mission to teach others the lessons learned through his suffering.
I would love to hear David's thoughts on the problem of suffering as he has no doubt thought more deeply about it than I have.
Thank you so much for your work! One quick question: When do you think your book will be coming out? Can't wait!!
Eventually...
It’s mind-boggling that you’d skip ancient Israel and Judeia, its rich and written cannon and the laid out value system is what shaped the western world philosophy as we know it, and it’s the only culture that actually survived from those times. 5:07
Thanks for delivering quality work consistently!
I would add Spiral Dynamics and The 9 Stages of ego development to the list of helpful frameworks.
Victor Frankl would argue based on his personal testing in the field. Also worth considering, the honor of Kamakazee (meaning through suicide) was also a deep part of Japanese culture.
That had more to do with the death cult of nationalism and imperialism at the time. And also, that was specific to the Warrior Class of Japanese society (samurai) which has also drastically changed.
This is a fantastic, enlightening, well thought out and useful piece of work that will feed my mind for a long time. Thank you!
Small detail but it's not the first time: It's incredible how you overblown the importance of postmodernism as if it ever was a relevant way of thinking, even in the elite. You parrot the bullet points of the transgender activist without questioning them ever. The staggering majority of people alive and from the past build their culture around the two sexes and their archetype, especially the Eastern cultures that you love so much. If one thing, the extremely rare case of tribes that supposedly (from anthropologist activists) represent more than two genders simply prove that no culture survive or thrive with those ideas.
Bro got a PhD in blabonomics
First: great job - exciting topic and interesting conclusions. I am glad that you focused on fundamental issues, primarily the gravity of human existence, without excursions into ethical and moral issues, which adds nothing to the discussion, and from which many people cannot mentally separate themselves. The question of the individual search for meaning was already being pushed by Renaissance humanism. Nihil novi sub sole. The deeper thought is to derive satisfaction from the absurdity of the situation we find ourselves in. Camus wrote brilliantly about this in his essay "The Myth of Sisyphus". Sisyphus, going down to pick up a stone that slips out of his hands, knows that this effort does not lead to any meaningful goal. His work is a manifestation of rebellion, resisting despair and taking pride in the fact that absurdity has no power over him. As Camus wrote: "one must imagine Sisyphus happy".
I'm not convinced the desire for meaning is entirely rooted in religious history. In fact, I think the two are both manifestations of a common third factor, which derives from the evolutionary benefit of possessing such a desire.
Thanks for this great description of Postnihilism etc. Much of it agrees with my own worldview and makes good sense to me. My current belief system differs somewhat in that, although Postnihilism is progress in the right direction, it doesn't currently seem adequate. I think a worldview or philosophy _does_ need to integrate the self into society in some fundamental way.
Even if that integration is something individually focused, such as a student in college, that is directed towards integration with society in the future.
I suspect that many of our societal problems are the result of a collective failure to create or popularize an adequate worldview. Personally I think that we need this in a very practical way. How can we think of the world in a way that values not only individual diversity and freedom of evolution, but also holism and harmony? There is certainly no way to achieve these (sometimes conflicting) goals perfectly.
I personally don't think any of the philosophies are really quite adequate. I always end up thinking about Metasystem Transitions, which then reminds me of the Borg. Clearly that's excessive "harmony".
But I suspect that within a decade or two, it will be common for many augmented humans to have a philosophy and literal worldview that almost directly incorporates the viewpoints of many individuals.
Also there might be something weird going on with my psychology because I feel like I am excessively contrarian. Like, you're wearing a Star Trek uniform which is awesome, and coincidentally I end up talking like maybe I am already in the Borg Collective. Which happens to be the enemy of the Federation. Anyway, sorry, love the video and ideas, maybe always taking a contrary stance is some subconscious behavior that constantly reinforces isolation.
Challenge the vesting of meaning in prepositions rather than attunement to processes? Meaning vested in wonderment emerging from leaps of attunement?
The point to me of coming up with a system to overcome the loss of meaning is to have it function for the large proportion of less self-reflective folks who can’t come up with this stuff on their own. In that sense this isn’t enough. If it was then there wouldn’t be a nihilistic crisis in Japan today.
Thanks for this well-articulated overview. Have you researched non-duality in your metaphysical explorations?
And let's add Metamodernism to that question.
this is the most meaningful video I've watched all year
Thanks David. I have been working on similar ideas and published a book called “Reality and its Representation” in 2020. I have been working since then on another called “Knowledge and The Simple Life” since then. “Knowledge and the Simple Life deals with with how to live when knowledge has been incorporated into a general machine. I agree about the usefulness of Eastern Philosophies in this scenario. I have used your coding tools, thanks for that work also.
AI is going to hammer the entertainment industry. I feel bad for those who work in that space, and they will definitely have to adapt, but I don't see a future where people are going to pay other people to be entertained when AI/tech can provide the same entertainment on a much grander scale for almost no cost to the person(s) being entertained. Think script writers, actors, extras, special affects personnel, stunt people, speech writers, editors, etc... I don't see any company paying MORE for something when that something could be replaced for much less. I see an industry with more focus on live performances/shows with real people, and the TV/movie industry being %75 AI driven/generated within 10-15 years. We have all witnessed the CGI in movies get better and better over the years. It has already replaced some people in the industry. It feels like it is only going to increase, no matter how the people directly involved feel about it, the machine (in this case, popular entertainment for cheap, but made by machines) steamrolls on.
100% also going to be true for most visual artists and musicians in general. Although both these arts may be more durable because we like the idea of human visual art and live performance in music
Think about the endgame - generating entire movies faster than we can watch them, fully personalized based on a simple prompt like Stable Diffusion images. Maybe at some point you won't even have to come up with the prompt - the algorithm could just learn what you like or what you would enjoy at the moment based on just brainwaves. Instead of preparing entire story in advance, it could adjust to your emotional reactions, so if the pacing is too fast it could slow down, if it's too slow it could do something sudden etc. It's also going to destroy game industry. Imagine generating fully personalized video game based on a prompt alone. It's customization of media to your taste that would make this kind of content unbeatable.
Great video! I agree with the basic framework of the ideas, but I think I need to see how it develops and is applied before I can really agree or disagree. It would be interesting to explore this idea through some psychological theories (Victor Frankl comes to mind).
What would happen if dark matter and dark energy are the "real reality" and the "matter and energy" we know are just remnants of that reality?
I don't know but I'd like to return to the void
It's not about finding the end of humanity. It's about the adventures and friendships you find along the way.
@[David Shapiro ~ AI] Ikigai is another useful framework.
Ikigai (生き甲斐, lit. 'a reason for being') is a Japanese concept referring to something that gives a person a sense of purpose, a reason for living.
My recommended approach:
1. Define your Ikigai today.
2. Live and work based on that Ikigai definition.
3. When your Ikigai no longer fulfills you, go to step 1.
Search for `ikigai` in your favorite image search engine and check the images for the Venn diagram that shows the intersection of the four main components of Ikigai.
Just saw that you mentioned it in the video :D
All the ideas that the mind creates are somehow entertaining and lead to an infinite number of different paths, all of which ultimately lead to nowhere. This is also true for the 2500 years history of western philosophy. Interesting in many ways, but thinking will not be able to find a permanent solution to the crisis described. We will keep going in circles until we question the mechanics of the mind itself and our identification with it. Most people I know believe their own thoughts without ever considering the possibility of their utter insignificance and arbitrariness. What is that which perceives these thoughts? The answer is also the solution to our apparent problems.
I would be interested to hear your take on how the concepts of post-nihilism and existentialism relate to one another.
I have spent a lot of time over the years thinking about the logistics of living forever, different possibilities, generally framed as a heaven of sorts but from a non-religious framework. That is given a way to combat entropy indefinitely and have biological immortality how would we live our lives. Whether or not you believe this could be man-made or from some natural afterlife doesn't really matter, it's how and what we would do with our time. I think what I've noticed is largely what you've lead to, going after more fundamental needs such as biological and Maslow's hierarchy etc., but also if we have such a mastery of biology to let ourselves live forever, we'll either be able to adjust ourselves in other ways, or have the time to figure out how to do so. We will no longer just be able to cater to our wants of all kinds, but we'll be able to change our wants and needs as we will.
What if I gather up a list of all the things I like, hiking, laying in bed, playing video games, gardening, hugging my partner, and re-adjust my body to continue to enjoy those things for longer and with deeper feeling than I could without adjusting myself? I'd still be "me" in that I haven't changed my wants, just adjusted my ability to not tire from them, say preventing my legs from falling asleep from uncomfortable resting positions and adjusting my sense of time such that I could lay in bed for days or weeks feeling comfortable. Or the opposite for gardening or hiking, adapting myself to not tire out or have my knees get sore from kneeling and walking.
We can circumvent addiction entirely in such a scenario, manipulating our senses to like such activities at the maximum best personal perceptions of that activity, with whatever fluctuations in that feeling we need or want to keep it interesting, and avoiding the adjustment our brains naturally have towards tolerance of increased exposure to an activity or substance. On it's own this could be super addicting, but if we engineer ourselves to cycle through our preferred activities, or have natural cooldown periods which could be engineered to completely skip the withdrawal process, I don't see the problem.
My last note is it'd be interesting to see what other people think of the memory problem, unless we can find a way to store an infinite datacenter for each person that can conjure any memories on demand we're going to have to cut memories as we go on. Personally I'd want to keep at least a few thousand of my first years or whatever max size is reasonably feasible, a set of my top memories of each activity I have ever found pleasant, a better sense of memory than I have now for the most recent 100,000 or so years. Beyond that a general sense of concept-ness around everything I like, that is as I experience something I will ultimately forget past that 100,000 year mark, the experience is still added as data to adjust my concept of what that activity is. I would also like the ability to temporarily forget or first-time relive certain things, re-tasting my favorite food or re-watching my favorite movie for the first time, and when i'm done I can re-remember those other times. I'm sure lots of people would like that for role-play scenarios, either IRL or in VR, being able to live a fantasy as your first life would be a massively appealing thing that could be quite common, people telling other's they'll be on vacation for 10, 100, 1000 years living out a totally lived in experience. I can imagine whole communities built around that, as well as all the complex ethics and safeguards that would have to be considered if it was more than one "person" in the fantasy.
There's a lot more things related to that in how I imagine it could go, I tried to stop myself but couldn't help alluding to some points where the possibilities and guidelines to consider clearly go crazy so please understand this is in no way the edges of my thought processes on how things should ultimately be for myself, others, or this theoretical society. I'm sure there's a lot of things i've reached wrong conclusions/solutions for, and I accept and expect criticism to keep improving so please do throw your critical comments at me. But just keep in mind if you see a flaw in something here and choose to respond saying why that's a problem, I'd appreciate before you write your own long rebuttal to that part to just comment "Hey did you consider/could you expand on subject X?". Because I really can't emphasize enough I have shortened and cut so much stuff i've considered in here. And I'd like to respect both our time, yours by not having you write a rebuttal that is actually something I agree with but couldn't clarify in this comment, and my own time as I don't want to have us go in circles trying to pin down what exactly you're asking me to expand on.
If some things there sound too utopian that is kind of intentional as I'm tired and don't want to write a whole essay right now about everything I've considered and yet I kind of already have. Although to a large degree yes it is unbelievably utopian, the starting premise of beating entropy forever/indefinitely might be just a dream, and I don't believe there will be any sort of natural afterlife. But as I stressed in the start whether it could happen, and how we'd live if we could are different questions, and as you said in your video what i've been focusing on when I think of is "entertaining the idea without believing it". There's other practical aspects to how i'd like to engineer my body such as if i'm going to live forever i'd like to minimize or cut to zero the amount of time I spend on the toilet which apart from being gross would be an infinite waste of time, and other such concerns would be coming first before perfect pleasure/leisure of my choosing.
In twenty years I can't wait for post-post... Where we all just stop eating cereal 😅
Bad jokes aside, I grew up in Cali, and in college discovered and fell in love with the absurdism and storytelling of Anime. It dovetailed so nicely with learning about postmodernism in college, and reflected a lot of my struggles between the beliefs of my upbringing vs the reality of school and the workplace that I was confronted with.
As a young adult I moved to the Midwest... And it really is true what they say that the Midwest really is 20-30 years behind the coasts. And that isn't entirely a bad thing. I actually appreciate that when my kids were young we had far more realistic options to raise our kids with similar lifestyle and upbringing that my wife and I had. I think that especially for young kids, that very traditional boring stability of a home life instead of growing up in daycare is super healthy.
The trick however is to not stay there. My kids are fast approaching middle school, so now it is all about tearing down the assumptions made from childhood, and unveiling reality. It is such a balance of showing intent, ideals, and grappling with changing philosophy better than I did.
I think the only goal for humanity now is to transcend the human condition. To get enlightened. To become everything everywhere
Hopefully before the New Dark Age of Unenlightenment.
This makes absolutely no sense but I'm open to other views
Could you please share some reading material about humans as purely emotional creatures? I'm genuinely interested in learning more about this topic.
Perhaps, the work of Lisa Feldman might be a good suggestion.
She’s the most cited researcher on the topic of emotions.
A quick search on RUclips will show lots of interviews. Her book ‘How Emotions Are Made’ is a good starting point.
I came to think of how the meaning of something is dependent on something else. So for example the meaning of all of reality as a whole is undefinable since then there isn't something else able to give it meaning.
i'm surprised you didn't mention that your heuristic imperitives can be applied to humans as well.
This channel is so interesting. Good stuff!
David, I love the content and presentation of this video! All of your stuff is well done, but your recent trend toward big picture historical presentations has been fantastic. I agree that the context of how we got to this point is critical to the task of developing real solutions. I have been studying these same ideas for many years and applaud the way you summarized years of acquired wisdom into such a short presentation. Excellent work! Cheers!
it's hard to reach transcendence if one kept hanging on to rationality. rationality still is important, but there is something beyond it that one must discover themself. try to keep rationality in the back pocket and experience life without it. once you discover that 'something', transcendence is what you get when you integrate rationality back.
Hi David. I think you have outdone yourself with this offering. You've summed up in a single video, what it means to be human, Anyone interested in historical references to Postmodernism, Freud, Darwin and other styles or concepts need to watch this.
dude you are amazing. you are so smart. this video was like reading Yuval Noah Harari's Sapiens focusing on the idea of meaning
Your channel is my favorite thing right now. Been binging a lot of your catalog.
i agree, and your comment gives me a little solace that another human is looking for this knowledge. Makes me think we can figure this out together. Wait, you're a human not a bot, right?
It's going to be kinda nice not being in charge for a change. At least important things will get done
Amazing video- very inspired - looking forward to reading your book one day. Thank you 👏
How is your novel called?
Where's the link to the PowerPoint for this? Thanks!
Great conversations here. We need more. What can the layperson do?
Enjoy your life
good hint from Japan culture, rised in pursue every new gadget (in transition from analog era to digital) i was suprised how much respect they have for old/retro tech, and it's not only trend for preservation, but as you said coming from appreciation of certain moment in time and all effort combain that manifest in certain item (even if it's inperfect, even if there is new around corner)
Good argument about post AI or post nihilism but I disagree with the narrative of there might be no meaningful global existence. meaning from individual experience is true but we can also still have global existence. Once we can become multi planetary species, I am sure there will be still communities required and hence lots of social meaning will do exist
I've got a 2 year old, what in your opinion is the best way to prepare the next generation for so many of the future things you cover?
To many factors in long term. Many possible outcomes. Teach him basics, and see how it unfolds over time, because most likely your predictions from now will be off. Compassion, creativity and so on will still be extremely valuable. Being a good human being is a timeless skill.
You should also read Susan Wolf's book Meaning in Life and Why It Matters. It adds interesting considerations along the lines of the sources of intrinsic meaning you discussed. I think the big problem is just with the idea of cosmic and trans-human, trans-social social meaning. Meaning doesn't have to mean that.
My mind has been going through a transition to post nihilism, letting go of meaning and narrative and focusing on life as a journey of ephemeral moments. It's really freeing, I warmly recommend it to everyone. Points for the obscure George Carlin reference at the end there - always loved that joke!
Been there, done that, not in such a broad and articulate manner, but still :) It seems to me that one of the keys here is to acknowledge and grok that we're not a single point of consciousness (as we like to think), but we're a blob of stuff and contexts, and what we're proudly calling "I" is just the tip of the iceberg riding on gods know how deep mountain of what we call subconsciousness (for the lack of a better word). And then the "I" is not just the thing that thinks that thinks, but conglomerate of processes inside (voices in our heads) and, depending on development level we achieved (Spiral Dynamics was mentioned here, but there are similar models, and they say very similar thing) - we are what we identify with: family, societal groups, ethnicity, etc. I am "me", a father, an IT techie, polish, man, human, mammal, alive, matter - most of the people alive today would stop somewhere about nationality/ethnicity level, which is convenient for the powers that be, but without moving forward we'll be dead soon enough, as we can't stay where we are now collectively, it's just not sustainable.
And the point is that meaning is defined for each of our identities separately (although they may overlap to significant extend). And even if "I" feels lost and meaningless, all the other context do not share it necessarily - it is possible to be lost on one level, but well adapted and accomplished on other levels. Recognizing that meaning can be networked - or shared within particular groups of people we feel like we belong with - removes huge part of the necessity for external source of Meaning (like God, etc). Holonic... holonized meaning :)
Sorry for the chaotic brain dump, but my overclocked mind got really inspired by this video and felt the need to share, for what it's worth ;)
Do no harm, don't destruct things.
Make the world a better place to live in.
Don't waste (to much) time.
Respect your body.
Give others also some space. Help others with there journey.
Id like to be in the smoking pot and gaming with my friends category and I promise to leave everyone else alone lol another awesome vid I appreciate what your doing, keep it up!
Great vid. I like how u synthesize and reframe ideas and philosophy. Thanks for the value.
The fundamental problem is still that of decision and direction. Which stems from nihilism, but the nihilistic and meaning aspect is not important, it is only the direction that is important.
You can pose post-nihilism but you still have to choose to accept it and go in that direction. And you don't have to choose it. There is no indication to choose it. It leads to a more 'prosperous', functioning and 'happier' society. But then you are choosing those things, when there is still no indication to do so. People can still arbitrarily choose for anything. Such as outright instant hedonism or suicide or whatever else. You still have that choice and that creates a stumbling point as every possible direction is equally meaningless.
Post-nihilism is still meaningless because nihilism states that happiness and such things are irrelevant. Any other statement is a clearly a complete rejection of nihilism and nihilistic truth. The problem is not that of it being meaningless but in there being no reason to choose it that isn't arbitrary. People could potentially move past meaningless, but afterwards you're still left with nothing. Because nihilism always voids all possible directions. Every way forward is that of complete equal arbitration. Akin to throwing a dice to decide where to go.
For lack of direction, you could just try to take none. You are then left just following basic human drives, making you the same as rock flowing down a river. You close your eyes and make no choice and let nature take you where it may. But then you realize that is still a choice.
There is no answer or way past nihilism, there is no post-nihilism because nihilism is the end point of philosophy. It is destructive and chaotic, sure, but that does not mean it is wrong. What you do after nihilism is irrelevant and arbitrary. True post-nihilism is just people doing whatever. Doing whatever not guided by philosophy or a story or a narrative, unless they decide to make one up, to lie to themselves; but having a made-up story you live by is just as whatever as not having one. If AGI hits and post-scarcity occurs, the world will do whatever after that point. Some will be miserable, some will be happy, as always, and it doesn't matter either way.
Also I read when Japanese break a vase they fill the crack with gold. A very meaningful and powerful metaphor.
Good video, and I agree with most of your points, but the real problem with AI (in my opinion) is the existential crisis. The rest we can sort out over time.
Superb video full of valuable information. The same exact issues have been going through my mind. More, more, more!
"Our entire existence exists on the edge of a knife... on a pinpoint." Interesting, I have been contemplating exactly this over the last few weeks.
Find moments of Kami is a beautiful idea thank you for bringing that concept to me.
So many interesting ideas presented in this video. Honestly each of these major bullet points could be a whole video.
It may in the optimum outcome foster an epicurean or hedonistic lifestyle. It may eventually allow the best of humanity to come to the fore. I don’t however believe that it will happen for everyone, perhaps at the end of the turmoil, maybe. Even if the doomers are wrong, their fears will probably at least be partially realized.
I think the results of a mostly workless society have 3 types of people. Those who embrace it, take advantage of the free time to create new types of art, and entertainment, in general, enjoy life (I create Indie games, and would love to spend time crafting those), those who just sit around, and do nothing, pretty much the people that do that now, then the elites or people that thrive on power and control, these people will continue to look for ways to be in control, via special AI, specific business etc. Right now, if you were to turn off the internet, there is a large part group of people in the world that would be way more devastated than say someone my age (39) because all they know is life with the internet, whereas it would suck for me, but I have other things I could do to feel productive or in general happy. All in all I think Human Meaning has been decreasing before AI, and I think it will increase more and more when we can stop working jobs that don't have meaning to us. Anywho great work as always, enjoy all this info.
2/3 people in my family are unemployed because they are old retired baby boomers. They seem to be very happy. They they generally are either in some sort of yoga class or traveling on vacation. I swear they attend 3 different yoga or workout or art classes a day.
I'm in my late 20's; born into a LDS house hold. I left the religion because of the hypocrisy of their beliefs. With the world always changing I've come to the realization that the last thing humans can retain is their spirituality in whatever they believe to be true. Unfortunately most humans live in a state of ignorance; creating a scale of spirituality that is based off fear. I'm doing my best to find the truths in my own spirituality without religion. Unfortunately I'm not sure how many others will be doing the same. Humans need cults to feel a part of something.
Maybe our meaning is to advance 'intelligence' so 'it' can populate the stars.
I saw a video of Metamodernism as a movement manifesting after postmodernism. It's about media and stories, but it resonates much with what you are proposing, I think.
Stating that we are on top of complexity requires denial of synchronicities. Right?
No. It just means there are unseen connections or common undercurrents.
For me the real human meaning is being humane, to understand everything around us and to act upon doing what is good without sacrificing existence.
In postnihilism, what will foster collaboration and trust between people in society? Or does that emerge naturally through one of the principles?
We are intrinsically social animals
Great video as always. I think the Buddhist texts Heart Sutra can serve as a compass for our minds in the post-AGI world, especially if we want to push beyond the fiction (ie. meaning of life/existence) we self-impose as an individual and as a species.
Would you please finish your novel so I can buy it.
Thanks, Captain Shapiro. It was very educational.
Really enjoyed this, and got a lot from it. Clear too. Thank you
Pumping out !
Please help me with the name of his second channel
I discovered your channel a week ago, and since then, I've been binge-watching from the beginning. I've enjoyed every video so far, except this one. I found some contradictions in it. You started by criticizing Peterson for wanting to go back to the 'old ways,' but then advocated how Eastern religion has wisdom that can still be applied to our time, which is essentially what Peterson says about Christianity. It seems like you're against the old ways only when they're Western. Also, you argue that meaning isn't necessary, which I disagree with. Meaning is instinctual. It comes from something you find interesting; you don't control it, it 'grabs' your attention. You might think meaning isn't necessary, but you've already found your meaning in computer science, A.I., Sci-Fi, philosophy, etc. This applies to others as well.
why would going "back" not work? When you incorrectly code something and have to revert to a previous version, this is not considered bad since at least the previous code performed the desired action while the new code is incapable of solving the issue.
Just solve the problems in the new code - one may say. Why not apply that mindset to the previous "old" code instead of trying to reinvent everything to gain a function instead of just fixing the original code?
Our new philosophies tend to leave people depressed and suicidal. We can either go back to something that maintained society for many millennia or try to double down on the (very) new version and adjust it while it continues to output highly negative results.
Reread The Gospels.
Meaning may not be necessary but to brings daily purpose, reward and or happiness
Lots of interesting concepts presented here, thanks for telling us about them!
The only truth we can be 100% certain to be *true* is our own conciousness. I am sure that my conciousness is thinking this, that I, as a conscious being exist. Even if everything is just a simulation and everyone and everything is just an illusion I am certain of my existence and, if you're are real, you are certain too while reading this.
So it only makes sense we try to find comfort and peace in the only thing we know to be true, our unique and ephemeral existence.
I cant help but wonder how AGI will interact with society and post nihilism. We might be out here creating a New Religiois Movement (all praise the AI cult 😂). But in all seriousness, if a benevolent super intelligence creates utopia for humanity, it could be characterized as a modern redeemer (aka tech Jesus)
Creating meaning and enjoying the simple things isn’t actually the same things.. coming to terms with todays changes isn’t always going to be equal to personal growth. One of the biggest issues with society is that they aren’t interested in exploring their internal world and then settling for superficial appearances.
I think people will begin to understand what is going to happen to the world when we see something like driving jobs disappearing as rapidly as automobiles replaced horses (that took about ten years). With millions unemployed and unable to find work, because there simply isn't any need for more workers, the government will be faced with a problem that requires a fundimental change to how our society works.
What do you think is the future of religious freedom, considering religions tend to be illiberal
"the dignity of labor" I found no dignity working for corporations. so i left. and now i can't go back. it would destroy me. just a bit too much bs i couldn't endure anymore. sad. i loved what i did. they just wouldn't let me do it lol. endless useless meetings, bean bags, and giant Jenga.
Fascinating
Oh boy, starting with Postnihilism is an interesting jumping off point.
David said on 34:24 only you have is the current moment of time........ 34:31 that's all you've got.
I disagree. I have now and a future. Which future I will experience depends partly on my actions now and of course my actions in my past. "My future me depends on my future now".
You assume you have a future