Alps restoration guide part 4: how to lube Alps switches
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- Опубликовано: 16 окт 2024
- Part 4 of my Alps restoration guide. See all parts here: • Alps Restoration Guide
Buy Krytox or Tribosys: mykeyboard.eu/...
In this video I present you with a test of a wide variety of switch lubes to settle, once and for all hopefully, which one is the best for Alps switches! I also show how to apply all of them. This is just my technique of course, but I hope you will find it useful :) . Ever since the tests, the silicone has improved slightly further, and I would say it's definitely the best of the bunch tbh.
My keyboard reviews: bit.ly/1TbOtft
My switch teardowns: bit.ly/2C1QGHz
My TOP X videos: bit.ly/2FmpZfd
My XL typing demos: bit.ly/2OoAW3w
My tutorials and featurettes: bit.ly/2OrkLUh
My unboxing videos: bit.ly/2TSrr0m
I'm Thomas and I do videos and reviews on mechanical keyboards ranging from the most sickening modern RGB gaming keyboards to vintage hardware relics, or sometimes keycaps or keyswitches ranging from Cherry MX to Alps SKCM to IBM buckling springs and anything in between.
Follow me on Twitter for updates on my keyboard videos! / chyrosran22
Finally. The community has been waiting for a guide to lubing alps for so long.
I love that Thomas is doing this video since not only he's an OG keebs enthusiast but he's also a chemist. So pretty much he's your goto guy for lube recommendations
When are we just gonna get modern blue alps clones? Hell, we could even make some with MX stems. Come on China, hook us purists up with something, you can market it as better than MX :P
Yeah it sounds weird that one of the best switches that exists are now 30 years defunct, and despite the abundance of premium marketed switches, no company really looks back to find a lost relic and make loads innovating/copying off the design.
@@aaronandrews5648 Zeal has been teasing an MX-ish switch with an alps style click leaf. I've been anxiously waiting for it.
Aww that sucks
@@thechemtrailkid SOON
@@Hummus-dm6hc Link?
Thanks for all the original research on this one.
Love the forensic detail of all this.
I refurbed my school-abused AEK2 this past summer. I swapped in very light SPRiT alps springs, and shook the alps stems in a plastic baggie with some silicone oil. The result is night and day. I'm surprised silicone oil did so poorly in your test but I may have used a heavier oil - shock oil for RC vehicles? Dunno. Anyway this series of videos is a gift to the community, experimentation is the heart of progress, thank you!
Can you link what you used to lube your board, I have an AEK2 that needs a resto and wouldn't mind trying it next to some trybyosis.
@@samoksner Traxxas 1666 Silicone Dampener Oil - I obtained from amazon canada and don't know what world-wide availability is like
The oil was bad, yeah, but the silicone grease was much better.
Did you have any troubles with shipping terms? I'm also looking for lighter springs (dampened creams are to stiff for me), but I've heard that shopping of Sprit springs can take several months.
@@DmitryNosachev I don't remember the shipping time for the SPRiT springs taking too long, BUT, it took me a long time to find the time to do all the work of restoring every switch in the keyboard. I ended up 3D printing an alps opener because some of my switches had dried coca-cola syrup in them. I also bought a small ultrasonic cleaner to clean the stems and housings.
id also want some "Businessman's Breakfast"
Note that krytox and tribosys should be really close each other, but only when they have the same thickness. There are 3 versions: 3203, 3204 and 3205 (the latter only available by krytox) that should have respectively low, medium and high viscosity. When applied to cherry switches the 3205 is recommended only for linear switches, as it's so thick that it wipes away the feel of the tactile bump. The 3205 is mainly used with topre, as the tactile device is a rubber dome that being a compliant mechanism doesn't need lube, so you only apply it to the sliders.
I thought anything petroleum based (Vasalene, WD40) was a big no, no to use with anything plastic, as it will eventually start breaking down the plastic. Excellent info as always!
Ladies & gentlemen, the man of the hour, Chryros! Seriously though thank you so much for doing this series of videos. I've been super curious about seeing what different types of lubes would do for ALPS SKCM/L switches, but haven't built up a big enough stock of them to have some I'm not worried about possibly ruining. In fact I have a batch of damped creams that are in particularly bad shape I've been saving to experiment with once I get some good ones to replace them with, but you beat me to it (thankfully too, since your advice definitely will get much farther exposure than mine would!).
Ultimately it looks like you've been right all along with saying good condition & unlubed is best with ALPS SCKM/L switches. Glad to hear Tribosys 3203 performed decently though as that is very easily obtained & fairly easily cleaned off with some iso alcohol. So IMO that would probably be the best one for people to experiment with. Anyways thanks again for your sacrifice to the KB gods so we can further our knowledge about ALPS SKCM/L switches!
Great video, as someone who restored ALPS switches I know the amount of work this requires.
I've always used dry teflon lube because that's what people have recommended.
But now I think I will try some Trybosis 3203.
Absolutely excellent video, love the very detailed approach. So much work must have gone in to this! Just tried some silicone grease on some scratchy and binding white alps on my focus fk-2002, and it saved them, thank you for this :)
Really enjoying these restoration guide videos, keep the series going?
I used Finish Line dry lube and my linearized Black Alps became really smooth, quite close to stock Green Alps I'd say.
I have had success using wax bicycle chain lube on alps switches. Great and informative video!
Thanks as always for leaving few stones unturned. I was also curious about WS2 myself, and was on the verge of conducting my own tests after a poor trial at trying molybdenum disulfide on the past. I was curious if you considered dry film lubricants of Teflon as well. They are relatively inexpensive, attract little contaminants and are relatively durable. I have some on the way so I will answer the question for myself, but in a way you are rightfully one of the eminent switch experts and wanted to know your thoughts. This is the product I'm about to test if you are interested: DuPont Teflon Non-Stick Dry-Film Lubricant Squeeze. It's advertised as useful on plastics and for tight tolerance applications so I thought it would be worth testing.
Those solutions are essentially equivalent to the coke lube suspension I used. Honestly, the silicone grease performed a lot better ;) .
Thanks, the one I want to see is about chattering. I love old pine white alps, but my favorite board has a few offenders, and I have been unable to stop the chattering, even after cleaning.
Love the series, I have an AEK2 with damped whites that is in need of a restoration. While it's pretty clean physically, it's well worn and the key feel is very inconsistent from one to the next.
Hooray! Someone found out which lubricant Alps used!
Has any one ever tried a ultra fine jewelers paste to micro polish the plastic so there's not a bunch of tiny scratches in the contact areas caused by dust and debris? would take a while but might be worth it if it works since thats probably were the scratchiness is coming from on crusty boards.
I actually used ceramic bike lube (mostly PTFE in oil) on my rubber dome. I lubed the sliders as they were binding horribly. Works great now.
I used a Tribosys mixed with something else, and I liked the result. Of course, mine weren't real alps, but Matias quiet clicks with clicky plates. The result felt very basey and smooth, but also fairly bindy (a quality I didn't really recognise until this video) owing to the amount used I think.
I used some teflon bike chain lubricant for my linearised AT101W and it *seems* to be good, but I do not have a proper point of comparison. I tried the lube with a weird "101+" white alps board, but even after deep cleaning part of it and applying the lube it didn't seem to fix the binding issues it has; maybe it is just a cheap board idk. The 101w on the other hand is really smooth, but given that these are linearised, deep cleaned, and is a more "quality" board than the 101+, that could be the reason why.
Great video though. It certainly would have helped me a few months ago when I was doing this with those two aforementioned boards. I may decide to do this with the two Orange ALPS AEKs I have if I can stand the monotony of doing it again.
I'm about to use this stuff on my white Alps. How's it held up over the last 9 months for you?
I have used Super Lube Dri-Film spray lubricant on Alps SKCM Black with great success. It's a better choice than dry PTFE, since you don't need to suspend it in isopropanol - just spray it on. I haven't had any binding issues with it, but I wonder how much of it has come off over time.
Korean (or Japanese) keyboard community base use dry lube called RO-59 tmkt, water based fluorite liquid. I lubed my alps silent ivory stem with this(soaked and dried) and it went pretty well so far(it was 6 months ago). Of course it is not snappy as nos switches, and muted a little, but I like the way it is.
I used pre-suspended in something PTFE (called "dry lube") to lube my damped cream alps and it worked wonders. Combined with a tape mod it made my very old and used switches work like new
To note here, there is a lube that is generally seen as the best for alps among a good few people that being RO59 specifically the KT mix but sadly it is pretty hard to get in the Western world
RO59 is essentially equivalent to Krytox or Tribosys.
WD 40 is actually a water displacement fluid. It was developed to deter icing on rockets.
Though it's somehow useful for various other uses, like as a solvent and short term lubricant (it evaporates way too soon to use as a lubricant and attracts dust, so it works better at first, but then it actually gets worse)
The german "Spezialfett" appears to be from the Bundeswehr, the german military. Perhaps it was used for guns
I'm surprised the PTFE solution did so poorly. I bought a bottle of some to restore my AEK nearly a year ago, and it fixed all the binding issues my board had, making all but a couple keys feel incredibly smooth, and it's held up since. Granted, I lubed things up quite a bit more than you did. I basically soaked a q-tip in the solution and put a couple coats on everything inside the switch including the entire bottom half of the slider, the entire casing, both ends of the spring, the tactile leaf's contacts, as well as the switch plate contacts. I think having PTFE against PTFE in my case has helped it stick/bind more than PTFE against plastic/metal like you had.
The camera might not show it as well, but the suspension I used had a LOT of PTFE in it. Trust me, it really didn't suffer from a lack of it xD .
Lubricants work by either creating a fluid film (silicone, vaseline) or by creating a deposit of some solid material that has a molecular structure such that is slide easily on itself (graphite is the best example since it creates sheets of carbon that will slide on top of one another but will also resist pressure orthogonal to the movement. These solid based lubricants should adhere to the surfaces they are applied on so instead of the surfaces touching each other it's the lubricant on the surfaces that touch each other.
I know these small bits because I did some internet search on lubricants to replace the ones on my reel-to-reel tape decks. Interestingly I found retired engineer and chemists who worked at Molykote explaining these things on some vintage audio gear forums.
NOTE: WD40 is not a lubricant but a product to help get stuck screws turning and was originally developed to keep missiles from accumulating dew/water on them. It has solvents and detergents that are there to keep the surfaces clean or clean them. I use WD40 to remove stickers and glue residues from all sorts of surfaces like glass, metal and plastics. When using it in plastics make sure you'll be able to remove it completely.
Caig Labs - the makers of Deoxit - has a product called Faderlube for lubricating pots (faders) on audio gear. There are several formulations including 100% grease and liquid. I would use only the 100% since I had some strange results on my mixer after applying it but I don't know if the spray non-flameable version destroyed the dampers on the pots or if they were already melted and the spray just removed them. These products are not cheap but you can use an insulin serynge to apply it.
I don't even have Alps keyboards. I just watch these for the ASMR.
After watching this video, I decided I'd see if my OmniKey Ultra could be improved. I cleaned out the switches with canned air and have applied silicone grease to the sides of the sliders. A tube of a few OUNCES of grease cost $4 at the store. The keys do feel smoother but yeah, kind of "wet." After pressing each key a few dozen times to spread out the lube, it feels less weird. It's been extremely time-consuming because it takes me several tries to position the click leaf properly and not have the spring bounce around everywhere, and it gets trapped under the other keycaps... Anyway it'll all be worth it when I'm done, hopefully, because I pray it won't feel like I'm typing underwater.
Well, that was a great summary 👍 really like variety. On my last alps board i used a ptfe spray. It is ok but the switches in it self where allready not in great conditions. Could you redo maybe also redo this with cherry style switches? 😬
MoS2 is used for metal/metal and metal/plastic contacts by the people that deal with vintage audio. For plastic/plastic Molikote manufactures one that is called something like Plastislide - certainly starts with Plast.
WD40 will dissolve some plastics. Have you ever tried the Faderlube by the manufacturers of Deoxit? There's also some PTFE products for bicycles that are liquids that dry and leave a PTFE skin - it's used to substitute the old chain grease with the advantages of not getting your pants dirty nor getting dust stuck on it.
Also: is there a video about lubing the Model M? Thanks!
Do you re-clean the bad greases and then uniformly apply one of your favorites?
He probably will. You wouldn't want an functional Alps keyboard to feel bad would you?
@@0name933 true, but getting rid of all this lube is very, very difficult and expensive. Might be easier buying fresh loose poor condition oranges.
I might do someday and then put silicone grease on everything, but honestly, I'd rather get aa NOS one.
I used WD40 Specialist PTFE dry lube with my linearised blacks, threw the stems and springs in separate bags sprayed a bunch in and used tweezers to reassemble, then left to dry overnight. worked a treat
FOR NOOBS: you can buy cheap Gateron switches and use silicone grease from the plumbing store. That grease is lumpy. To make it smooth, add a few drops of isopropyl alcohol and mix thoroughly. It can be applied generously as, it will dry out and become thin.
This is horrible advice.
"I still wouldn't crack out the turkey baster."
I have seen some forums mention that the best way to lube alps switches is to use a dry lube such as Finish Line. WHY IS THIS? I'm very tempted to use Krytox or Tribosys for my new Alps switches, but after hearing about this dry lube business, I am on the fence. This question also applies to IBM buckling spring switches.
When you lube your ALPS and its actually really good.
Kek, now started to restore dirty White complicated Alps, I tried "Edding 8150 silicone oil marker". It is convenient to apply a thin layer. The result with this grease is much better than without grease. Interestingly, the next day the layer dries completely, but the result remains.
But I can compare so far only before cleaning, after cleaning before lubrication and after. And just two days passed.
Super interesting video. Thomas do you have access to fancy microscopes at your workplace? It would be interesting to see the difference between newer alps and old, cleaned alps and why the newer ones are still better even if the old one are cleaned and lubed.
I do have fancy microscopes at work yeah, but it's generally agreed that the OLDER versions are better, not the newer ones Oo .
@@Chyrosran22 I think he meant new as in NOS
Just got that 3.6 not great not terrible joke! Great show.
Now I wanna see how much improvements can be found in lubing White Alps (pine), especially with good (or NOS) condition, and how they feel in comparison to Blue Alps. O_o
You should do a video of you building a custom keyboard with alps switches, would be fun to watch.
I'm a muso, own a studio, blah blah, meaning, well, I've no fucking idea half the time what you do, but fuck I dig your vids. Often listen inbetween sessions or when restoring instruments. Cheers againan!
So, in conclusion, I shouldnt lube Alps switches? What do you think about Matias Switches? Do they come already with lube or something?
this man is like the fucking god of keyboards, congrats
Thanks for the video! Do you have a link where I could get some of that SiO2 grease?
Hello guys, and Chyrosran! I just bought a nice blue alps OEMMAX-860 board, and the switches seem to be in great condition. The only problematic key is the big ass enter key, which binds a lot when I press on the top part of the key. I think I read somewhere that that problem can be solved by lubing the points of contact between the keycap and the stabilizers. Can anyone tell me what type of lube I should use ? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!! 🙂
*Notification: New video of Chyrosran22*
Aw shit, here we go again
you should try that nyogel 760g stuff that people have found to be similar to the original Threebond lube used on SKCL/SKCM. People have said it is very good aand I'd like someone like you with lots of experiece with alps to judge them.
Would maracuia oil work by any chance? Back when I used to do competitive speed cubing I often used instead of lube when I ran out of it.
What am I missing here? Should't the lube be a dielectric grease?
Nice info, thanks for the effort!
Mykeyboard.eu men I ordered krytox just a few weeks ago from there. Best shop in europe XD highly recommend fast delivery. However it is a bit more expensive than in usa.
Btw there are many mods for stabilizers but krytox will do most of the job. Another one which you add on plastic basically for removing scratchiness of stsbilizers
Is there any way we can get a Chyrosran22 and Thunderf00t collab?
I think that krytox gpl 205 is a different viscosity than triboys 3203. triboys 3203 is base from krytox gpl 203 that is lower viscosity.
2:42 Yea you got it backwards its actually the ladder being suited to tactiles and the former being suited to linears.
Is it a good idea to simply swap a slider to a brand new Matias one with factory lube?
It doesn't seem a smart idea, first of all you may have a factory lubed slider, but the rest of the housing may still be in poor conditions, also Matias probably still doesn't have the original formula, so his guessing may be similar to Thomas'. Also to note is that changing the slider may an impact to the key feel, and at that point it may be easier to just desolder the switches and put Matias on!
I'm a little bit confused with the order of the video that he teach how to lube, before fixing deformed switches. I think it should be the other way around.
I use some "vintage" grease (probably lithium) that was designed for the plastic gears of tape players (audio and video). It's exceptionally smooth, increases tactility, and seems to perfectly mute all of the shrill, annoying sounds that come with mechanical switches. I admittedly get messy with application, but in the few years I've used it have not had any issues. On the contrary, there's a consistent break-in where the switches become increasingly smooth over a few days of use and then seem to set in when it feels like it couldn't get any better.
A sample I uploaded a while ago where I whack at a keyboard like an asshole: ruclips.net/video/2_W8Abs_Gc0/видео.html
Ah yes the days before wax
"Suspiciously like a semen sample" and suddenly the idea of a factory of this being produced like that popped into my head...I don't know how to feel anymore 😃
@3:02 "Lubriciousness" Sounds delicious.
Try spray on silicone lube from a hardware store
Sowing machine oil is also worth checking out, very inexpensive
This is essentially mineral oil.
try cube lubes
10:36 does this also mean that its awful, you just dont want to admit it?
Bought a bunch of damped creams, and the previous owner sprayed them with WD-40. Back to Part 3 for me. 🙃
gorgeous!!
First first first first!!!!!!!!!!!!! Are you proud of me?
Matthew Palmer .... mayBee
way too much IPA on the powder - you can literally use a few drops and make a creme and use that. on the oil side, simple 51* superlube oil works perfect on the rails.
People who think WD-40 is lube trigger me.
It's lube for about 3 hours, and then it's nothing but water protectant.
2:15 Didn't know he spoke martian, but cool
NYESSSS
Special Fat is what mom used to call me.
;)
Vaseline, the thing that eats plastic up over time..
And WD-40.. a solvent.
Yeah, great idea.
Fuck! So I should stop using Wet Stuff Extra I take it?
I'll just use Traxxas 10k/30k
Vasoline ftw
Not all lubes are good for plastic.
3:57 its funny because its technically neither and both.
why, imperial system, why