*This one was particularly very informative for me! It is so interesting how each company have their own philosophy that sometimes are contradictory. In this video, designer talks a lot about drivers but next up is a speaker company who believe drivers don't matter at all!* Pure Audio Project: pureaudioproject.com/ Axpona 2024 HiFi/AUDIO SHOW HIGHLIGHTS! Best of The Show 😮: ruclips.net/video/rT7zT0tGK2s/видео.html Support on Patreon: www.patreon.com/jayiyagi follow on Instagram: instagram.com/jays_iyagi/ follow on Facebook: facebook.com/jayiyagiofficial Follow soundstage take 2 reviews: ruclips.net/p/PLPOzvlhtSqn5xdc__ftuSt4Rxy_wm5Af0 Speaker stands: amzn.to/3ssRhI3 Better speaker stands: solidsteel.it/my-product/ss-7-vintage-hi-fi-speaker-stands/ acoustic panels I use: ua-acoustics.com/ acoustic curtain: amzn.to/31d1zAM BDI Cabinet I use: bit.ly/2OJRwQQ amzn.to/3chBuFZ other BDI Cabinets: bit.ly/3ctxXV1 amzn.to/30bsUCH my fav hifi tweaks: (Isoacoustics devices) amzn.to/3j5FGvM
What's interesting is this guy misinterpreting the work of Siegfried Linkwitz whilst thinking that his product is in the same league - complete nonsense - he has borrowed open source designs & "built a brand around it" - Look at the work of Clayton Shaw if you're looking for a great sounding open-baffle loudspeaker.
basically, all speakers are wrong, and if you want the closest thing to "true" sound you should build an FTB (Front-To-Back) treated mastering studio with ATC speakers and you basically have the best measurements out there (and obviously best sound) as soon as you separate the room treatment from the speaker then it is just a nice salesman's speeches a very expensive speaker could sound good in an untreated rooms but it will not be tuned as a mastering studio and it will definitely have room modes problems that you cannot solve just with speaker magic not to mention open baffle ones wich literally make the hole room a speaker🤔 wonder what happens if you'll try to play some EDM on those haha
What i love about my duet 15 is the fact that i'm not slave anymore of a sweet spot. The sound is open and good even when i'm working at my desk very close to the driver.
Always been intrigued by OB’s and that was one of my concerns. Certainly don’t like to be a slave to the sweet spot. The other is placement. Not sure I’d be able to place these 4-5’ into the room. Maybe 2’ max.
no sweet spot means no fantom center means no good stereo translation means you'll maybe have a good time hearing of axis but it will never be as good as a point source system in the sweet spot...... if you're not mixing music I guess you shouldn't care about this..
Very personable and engaging talk! Especially relatable is the 2 states of audiophile, never heard them presented in a spectrum! Btw liking the format and production of these show interviews!
I had the real pleasure of meeting Ze'ev at that Montreal Show and to hear his speakers . . . he is such a genuinely great guy and a good speaker developer and engineer - ALL the best to Ze'ev and his endeavour !
Great interview video, great talk. Every time I thought something like -what about x- the video instantly asked that question, it worked perfectly for me. I really like the way he put things and his observations. Cheers.
I owned a pair of Spatial Audio X5 and Pure Audio Project Trio 15 speakers and they both sounded really good! I ended up back with box speakers, but the open baffle speakers, paired with the right gear, is something to behold. Even though I didn’t keep my PAP Trio 15’s, I highly recommend them and Ze’ev is a good man with excellent customer service. Same goes for Spatial Audio, Clayton Shaw has excellent customer service, although he sold the company not to long ago.
What a great interview with Ze'ev. He's a gem and his speakers are gems too. I have the Trio15 Classics with PiFe drivers. They are amazing, end-game speakers for me. Thanks for posting this.
I heard this setup at the Seattle hi-fi show. They sounded really great. Just a fun inviting speaker, I found this setup with Pass oab amps to be as good or better more expensive setups. Granted the rooms were all different in setup but I really liked it. OB won't be an option in my house full of cats though 😂
I think these are my next speakers. At the show in Seattle last year, there were lots of expensive systems that just sounded like big speakers. Listening to the Trio 15s with a Pass Int-25 sounded like music appearing out of thin air in front of you.
Nice job Jay. I met Ze'ev and listened to PAP speakers at a few shows. Purchased my Quintet 15s with Voxativ PiFes several years ago. Best audio buy I ever made. I have tried several integrated amps with them. My favorites have been the Brunoco you reviewed and currently a VPI 299d.
Having had Apogee Duetta Signature speakers for 15+ years (look them up if you're not familiar with them) I am somewhat of an "old hand" with OB speakers. There is a natural battle to be fought with long wavelength cancellation as bass wavelengths allow "wrap around" cancellation when the out-of-phase bass waves tend to null the front firing bass waves you need to hear. Most designers have simply over emphasized the low frequencies to try to achieve a reasonable level of bass response balance. I ultimately found a set of smallish 10" Hsu Research subs necessary to achieve the response I found satisfactory.
@@fido0825 nice speakers! I had magnepans 2.6Rs. The true ribbon went down to 500 hertz. Fav speaker of my entire life. I had wings at the back to remedy the bass cancellation. Bass was outstanding with rigid stands and the wings
Don't you get cancellation of bass since the rear wave is out of phase with the front wave launch? How do you derive deep bass in such a system? It's been an issue for electrostatic dipole speakers and passive or active EQing or use of add on woofers are solutions. But still cancellation is a serious obstacle to overcome.
I thought the same. My Tekton Design OB Sigmas use a clever method of cancellation of the back wave below a certain frequency with an additional bass driver behind the baffle. It's a little more complicated but not "too" complicated to do the job of eliminating most of the cancelation issue. They work quite well and the "openess" of OB is maintained. I supplement with subs below the main speaker's extention limits.
How do you deal with Mr. McGowan's claim that the rear wave is out of phase? How are these speakers supposed to be placed to minimize this? Any room treatment required?
Placement 4-5 ft from the wall will create enough time difference. I do so in a moderately sized room with Quintet15 + field coils. ❤️. Paul has his own strong opinions to which he is of course entiteld. It doesn't mean there are no other ways....😉. Don't judge until you have actually heard properly placed OB speakers. Ask Ze'ev about the options.
@@keithmoriyama5421It doesn't work that way my friend. He largely overcomes the issue (imperfectly) by having way more base driver than would ordinarily be necessary in a sealed or ported bass alignment. Spacial does a similar thing.
I used to have AKG k1000 headphone, they where basically open baffles, when I would hold the bottom to anchor them they would sound so much better that I ended up selling them because I new what I was missing without being properly anchored. Open baffles really interest me, but I have the impression that if they can be made in a very sturdy metal frame with room in the bottom to be able to add a nice heavy sand/lead box, they would sound so much better. I'm definitely biased by my passed experience, but damn, it seems contextually relatable.
Super nice guy, I am very interested in this brand. Mr Huff and the Audiophiliac love them too, it must mean something. Now deciding between the Qualio IQ (no Ultra option, out of budget for me) and these Duets.
I had lots of open baffles in my system, all DIY. They have like any design strengths and areas that are not as good. What they do well is reduce colouration.
I build speakers with an open 5" FR driver on top of the box and a woofer in that bass reflex box. I build them with a 10" woofer. They sound completely different to "normal" speakers (if there is any reverb in the recording). Way more 3D! But if I put on Moondance by Van Morrison, my speakers don't sound any different to "normal" speaker, in any way! 😅 That "difference" is basically reverb! It has to be in the recording before my speakers sound "different". They just bring out the reverb in the recording more effectively than "normal" speakers seem to. I would say (without a doubt) that your open baffle speakers won't sound any different to "normal" speakers, on Moondance. 😅 Or on American Pie, by Don Maclean. 😅
I wish I could've heard these speakers at the show, but alas there was a crossover problem when I stopped by. Open baffle speakers make a lot of sense if you have the right room for them. In particular they tend to have less stored energy than box speakers, which leads to a ....cleaner?....sound.
I know this may be a bit radical, a bit woke but try electrolytic caps on FR drivers (if you are using a cap, or caps on that driver). I found that e-caps are way more silky in the highs on FR drivers (compensating the FR klangy sound). And I find ceramic caps to be harsh and gritty on FR drivers. FR driver highs are a bit klangy and the e-caps sound compensates very nicely. 😅
I wonder how much better these would sound with quality crossover components. Those iron core chokes and the electrolyte caps are… Not the way I would go with.
Ordering these speakers is not for the faint of heart. I ordered these speakers one and a half months ago. Every week I get a shipment of parts. Some the the parts are correct, some of the parts are not, and some are misssing. Ordered these speakers with white oak finish baffles and just received completely unfinished baffles. They send you the parts for the crossover and you put them together using their board. There were parts missing (no capacitors) and very unclear instructions. There were some black and white pictures which are not clear. There were no instructions for the HeilAMT driver wiring to the crossover board - you just guess. I am still waiting for the bottom plate or base and then I have to get speaker wire for the HeilAMT driver (this is not included), Like I said, ordering these speakers is not for the faint of heart as you will have to deal with missing parts, weeks of parts being shipped and not very good instructions.
Over the decades I have owned many box loudspeakers, but have long shifted to OBs. My current OB is Emerald Physics 3.4, 12" concentric polyester tweeter, very efficient; at 40" tall, it's half the height of my long gone Maggie 3.5Rs, yet throws a comparable sound stage without impeding on room aesthetic. My weak link is my room which is 20 ft+ x 35 ft deep, further compromised with vaulted open beam ceilings and large glass windows front and rear. As good as the 3.4s sound, because of the room's volume I need sub woofer reinforcement for large scale music. 2 SVS subs didn't blend well and are long gone to a happy surround sound owner. Enter Veri-fi with newly introduced Vanguard Caldea 12" @$399. I have 2 on order. HTH
This interview really didn’t address a lot of issues. 1) One of the cons of OB speakers is that they need to be a minimum for 2-3’ from the front wall 2) The other big con is that they are usually big speakers and it is hard to create an OB speaker with good bass extension in the bass 3) Con number 2 is the reason you more often see hybrid OB speakers where the tweeter and midrange are OB but the woofer is in some kind of cabinet. Allows for the design of a much smaller speaker 4) For DIYers, a OB speaker is attractive because it makes building the speaker much easier. You are just building a front baffle and do not have to worry nearly as much about cabinet resonances 5) Woofers optimized for OB speakers are not hard to find, tweeters and midranges need not be designed for OB applications 6) The crossover is not necessarily easier for OB applications and there is nothing unique to OB speakers in terms of choice of crossover points OBs make the modularity of this company possible and modularity is, to me, the real distinguishing factor for this company. It is a really neat concept that I have not seen any other company do.
Nor did it hit on one of strongest attributes of OB, ... dipole propagation. Dipoles simply don't excite the room's resonances the way monopoles do. Agreed, many good points. I'd add that typically, unless a loudspeaker platform is designed to be integrated with the front boundary wall of a listening room, oftentimes the experience is best when the loudspeakers are brought well out into the room, ... boxes or dipoles. Dipoles are so so different in their presentation. Experiencing the bass energy becomes more velocity dominant intensity rather than pressure dominant. Counter-intuitively, as long as the listening distance isn't increased, they can offer superior bass response in larger rooms.
I was eager to hear OB at the Audio Fest, I came away unimpressed. Of course the room was certainly a factor, but heard many in the same size space that impressed me much more.
@@pnichols6500 Getting an OP system properly setup in what was likely a small hotel room would be particularly challenging. I suggest trying to audition a good OB speaker in a better setting before passing judgement. I’m a big fan of OB speakers, but like most things in audio, it comes down to personal preferences (what you value in your audio reproduction).
@@FOH3663You would appreciate the speakers I am having built right now. It is a MTWW configuration. The woofers are two 15” woofers per side, something that would never be needed if there was a cabinet. The speaker is also bi-amped which allows me to use a high power amp for the woofers and a low power amp for the tweeter and midrange which really opens up what I can use on top. Right now the plan is to use a 10wpc Class A amp up top which probably would not work if the speaker was completely passive. A low power tube amp should work nicely as well. The unit to implement the electronic crossover also has DSP, which I regard as having FAR more advantages than disadvantages, at least in the bass region. Will the design work? Time will tell, but I am optimistic. The speaker is based on an existing OB design by a professional designer and the only changes are adding a second 15” woofer and placing the midrange over the tweeter instead of under it (no room under the tweeter with dual 15” woofers). Will everyone like this speaker? No. Some will not like or value the sound from a OB configuration. There should be plenty of bass, but it is not going to pressurize a room like bass coming from a cabinet and some people will not like that. I’m using a compression horn tweeter and some people are not fans of horns. Still other people focus on coincidence of the drivers and for them, a coaxial tweeter/midrange is the only way to go. This should be my “end game” speaker, but it would not be that for many people.
Open baffles are not the best. Not even close. They have a "sound" that is very appealing, easy to listen to, and enjoyable. For a lot of people they can be an end game setup. I have no issues with OB speakers. But I have a real problem with people thinking they are magic. The best OB speaker anyone could possibly make will perform similarly to an infinite baffle speaker. An infinite baffle speaker does not act like a point source. Hell, any baffle at all will actually reduce the ability of the speaker to act as a pure point source.
What’s missing in your discussion is the room. Open baffles are the best sounding speakers in my room. They trounce box speakers. Trounce them. But maybe in your room the opposite is true. But I will say this: a lot of folks with “regular” listening rooms (smallish, often multi purpose, odd shapes) should give open baffles a try if you are having trouble finding a speaker that works.
While I like the way of your interviews and how you present your channel, I have a problem with the concept of OB. It is the most flawed speaker concept in many cases. First the phase shift, which does not only works for one frequency, no it is all over the spectrum such a bass speaker has to play, this is hardly to position in a correct position. I've heard many of those OB speaker and none of them were able to play a correct, precise fast bass. All of them had a strange tonality which was kind of diffuse especially for vocals in the lower region. The soundstage was Omni present all around you, but that was not correct. I think these kind of speakers rise because on the one hand they look exotic and on the other hand they are damn cheap to produce. Think what ever you want but there are only two type of speaker concepts that fulfill the fundamental requirements of good speaker design and that are closed boxes and hornspeaker.
You have to use large drivers because you have to move huge amounts of air to overcome the phase cancelation for the amount of money your paying for these speakers you could have someone install an infinite baffle system that would sound way better and youd never even see them. This is the stupidest speaker design iv ever seen
Otl amplfier with array of identical high ohm full range, It would be electrically/physics- the best most viable option. It happens to also be the simplest and cheapest. Someone should put a system like this if they have a thousand or so dollars kicking around. The otl amp can be even as small as a headphone otl amp. The impedance should be around 100 ohms. It would be about 300 dollars for good high efficiency speakers and some plywood. Hang it from the ceiling. You can use the chinese aliexpress hifi full ranges, if you cant find the right ones in the us anymore with all the crap garbage suspension and crap impedance and crap cones and crap magnetics holy shit. I mean, you can even 3d print a basket buy some recone kits and use just a neodymium slug and make your own damn full range drivers and they would do better than the crap the us is pushing. Anyways. You know what is what, build it. bose is the rotting devil compared to this otl system.
![Blox Fruits Dragon Rework Update [Full Stream]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/EqDAp8udhm0/mqdefault.jpg)
*This one was particularly very informative for me! It is so interesting how each company have their own philosophy that sometimes are contradictory. In this video, designer talks a lot about drivers but next up is a speaker company who believe drivers don't matter at all!*
Pure Audio Project: pureaudioproject.com/
Axpona 2024 HiFi/AUDIO SHOW HIGHLIGHTS! Best of The Show 😮: ruclips.net/video/rT7zT0tGK2s/видео.html
Support on Patreon: www.patreon.com/jayiyagi
follow on Instagram: instagram.com/jays_iyagi/
follow on Facebook: facebook.com/jayiyagiofficial
Follow soundstage take 2 reviews: ruclips.net/p/PLPOzvlhtSqn5xdc__ftuSt4Rxy_wm5Af0
Speaker stands: amzn.to/3ssRhI3
Better speaker stands: solidsteel.it/my-product/ss-7-vintage-hi-fi-speaker-stands/
acoustic panels I use: ua-acoustics.com/
acoustic curtain: amzn.to/31d1zAM
BDI Cabinet I use: bit.ly/2OJRwQQ
amzn.to/3chBuFZ
other BDI Cabinets: bit.ly/3ctxXV1
amzn.to/30bsUCH
my fav hifi tweaks: (Isoacoustics devices) amzn.to/3j5FGvM
What's interesting is this guy misinterpreting the work of Siegfried Linkwitz whilst thinking that his product is in the same league - complete nonsense - he has borrowed open source designs & "built a brand around it" - Look at the work of Clayton Shaw if you're looking for a great sounding open-baffle loudspeaker.
basically, all speakers are wrong, and if you want the closest thing to "true" sound you should build an FTB (Front-To-Back) treated mastering studio with ATC speakers and you basically have the best measurements out there (and obviously best sound)
as soon as you separate the room treatment from the speaker then it is just a nice salesman's speeches
a very expensive speaker could sound good in an untreated rooms but it will not be tuned as a mastering studio and it will definitely have room modes problems that you cannot solve just with speaker magic
not to mention open baffle ones wich literally make the hole room a speaker🤔 wonder what happens if you'll try to play some EDM on those haha
What i love about my duet 15 is the fact that i'm not slave anymore of a sweet spot. The sound is open and good even when i'm working at my desk very close to the driver.
Always been intrigued by OB’s and that was one of my concerns. Certainly don’t like to be a slave to the sweet spot. The other is placement. Not sure I’d be able to place these 4-5’ into the room. Maybe 2’ max.
no sweet spot means no fantom center means no good stereo translation means you'll maybe have a good time hearing of axis but it will never be as good as a point source system in the sweet spot......
if you're not mixing music I guess you shouldn't care about this..
Very personable and engaging talk! Especially relatable is the 2 states of audiophile, never heard them presented in a spectrum! Btw liking the format and production of these show interviews!
Excellent!
Borrowed DIY designs - an exercise in plagiarism...Is that great? And he's misunderstanding the work of Siegfried Linkwitz - again NOT great at all.
@@BogdanWeiss who's work do you think they are plagiarising?
I had the real pleasure of meeting Ze'ev at that Montreal Show and to hear his speakers . . . he is such a genuinely great guy and a good speaker developer and engineer - ALL the best to Ze'ev and his endeavour !
Excellent interview!
My respect
Great interview video, great talk. Every time I thought something like -what about x- the video instantly asked that question, it worked perfectly for me. I really like the way he put things and his observations. Cheers.
Loving the videos, Jay! This is excellent quality.
My PAP Quintet 15 Horn1's are the best audio purchase I ever made!
I owned a pair of Spatial Audio X5 and Pure Audio Project Trio 15 speakers and they both sounded really good! I ended up back with box speakers, but the open baffle speakers, paired with the right gear, is something to behold. Even though I didn’t keep my PAP Trio 15’s, I highly recommend them and Ze’ev is a good man with excellent customer service. Same goes for Spatial Audio, Clayton Shaw has excellent customer service, although he sold the company not to long ago.
what speaker did you actually chose in a "box" speaker ?
What a great interview with Ze'ev. He's a gem and his speakers are gems too. I have the Trio15 Classics with PiFe drivers. They are amazing, end-game speakers for me. Thanks for posting this.
I heard this setup at the Seattle hi-fi show. They sounded really great. Just a fun inviting speaker, I found this setup with Pass oab amps to be as good or better more expensive setups. Granted the rooms were all different in setup but I really liked it. OB won't be an option in my house full of cats though 😂
I think these are my next speakers. At the show in Seattle last year, there were lots of expensive systems that just sounded like big speakers. Listening to the Trio 15s with a Pass Int-25 sounded like music appearing out of thin air in front of you.
I ❤ my Quintet 15. Well done, Ze'ev!!
me to.
Nice job Jay. I met Ze'ev and listened to PAP speakers at a few shows. Purchased my Quintet 15s with Voxativ PiFes several years ago. Best audio buy I ever made. I have tried several integrated amps with them. My favorites have been the Brunoco you reviewed and currently a VPI 299d.
Amazing insights and invaluable food for though.
Having had Apogee Duetta Signature speakers for 15+ years (look them up if you're not familiar with them) I am somewhat of an "old hand" with OB speakers. There is a natural battle to be fought with long wavelength cancellation as bass wavelengths allow "wrap around" cancellation when the out-of-phase bass waves tend to null the front firing bass waves you need to hear. Most designers have simply over emphasized the low frequencies to try to achieve a reasonable level of bass response balance. I ultimately found a set of smallish 10" Hsu Research subs necessary to achieve the response I found satisfactory.
@@fido0825 nice speakers!
I had magnepans
2.6Rs.
The true ribbon went down to 500 hertz.
Fav speaker of my entire life.
I had wings at the back to remedy the bass cancellation.
Bass was outstanding with rigid stands and the wings
Great interview!
Don't you get cancellation of bass since the rear wave is out of phase with the front wave launch? How do you derive deep bass in such a system? It's been an issue for electrostatic dipole speakers and passive or active EQing or use of add on woofers are solutions. But still cancellation is a serious obstacle to overcome.
I thought the same. My Tekton Design OB Sigmas use a clever method of cancellation of the back wave below a certain frequency with an additional bass driver behind the baffle. It's a little more complicated but not "too" complicated to do the job of eliminating most of the cancelation issue. They work quite well and the "openess" of OB is maintained. I supplement with subs below the main speaker's extention limits.
Brilliant
Cool speakers
How do you deal with Mr. McGowan's claim that the rear wave is out of phase? How are these speakers supposed to be placed to minimize this? Any room treatment required?
Placement 4-5 ft from the wall will create enough time difference. I do so in a moderately sized room with Quintet15 + field coils. ❤️. Paul has his own strong opinions to which he is of course entiteld. It doesn't mean there are no other ways....😉. Don't judge until you have actually heard properly placed OB speakers. Ask Ze'ev about the options.
The back reflection reverses the wave back to positive. The time delay becomes depth of field.
@@keithmoriyama5421It doesn't work that way my friend. He largely overcomes the issue (imperfectly) by having way more base driver than would ordinarily be necessary in a sealed or ported bass alignment. Spacial does a similar thing.
I used to have AKG k1000 headphone, they where basically open baffles, when I would hold the bottom to anchor them they would sound so much better that I ended up selling them because I new what I was missing without being properly anchored. Open baffles really interest me, but I have the impression that if they can be made in a very sturdy metal frame with room in the bottom to be able to add a nice heavy sand/lead box, they would sound so much better. I'm definitely biased by my passed experience, but damn, it seems contextually relatable.
What do you mean by holding the bottom to anchor them?
I met him at a show great guy!
What a fun video!
I have no experienced with OB speakers. I'd like to hear those or similar some time. It seems they are making a resurgence in popularity.
Same
For a reason
so how dose it sound? are you going to do a review on these?
absolutely interested reviewing them and my show impressions are coming soon :) These are just the exclusive interview series
Super nice guy, I am very interested in this brand. Mr Huff and the Audiophiliac love them too, it must mean something. Now deciding between the Qualio IQ (no Ultra option, out of budget for me) and these Duets.
I had lots of open baffles in my system, all DIY. They have like any design strengths and areas that are not as good. What they do well is reduce colouration.
Hah nice, I did my first DIY OB as well in 2013. No going back once you go OB
That was awesome .
I build speakers with an open 5" FR driver on top of the box and a woofer in that bass reflex box. I build them with a 10" woofer. They sound completely different to "normal" speakers (if there is any reverb in the recording). Way more 3D! But if I put on Moondance by Van Morrison, my speakers don't sound any different to "normal" speaker, in any way! 😅 That "difference" is basically reverb! It has to be in the recording before my speakers sound "different". They just bring out the reverb in the recording more effectively than "normal" speakers seem to. I would say (without a doubt) that your open baffle speakers won't sound any different to "normal" speakers, on Moondance. 😅 Or on American Pie, by Don Maclean. 😅
How close can you place these to a back wall without any bass problems? I would like to demo these and here them one day.
I have Trio15s. They sound very good around 24” from the front wall. They sound amazing 48” away.
I wish I could've heard these speakers at the show, but alas there was a crossover problem when I stopped by. Open baffle speakers make a lot of sense if you have the right room for them. In particular they tend to have less stored energy than box speakers, which leads to a ....cleaner?....sound.
I know this may be a bit radical, a bit woke but try electrolytic caps on FR drivers (if you are using a cap, or caps on that driver). I found that e-caps are way more silky in the highs on FR drivers (compensating the FR klangy sound). And I find ceramic caps to be harsh and gritty on FR drivers. FR driver highs are a bit klangy and the e-caps sound compensates very nicely. 😅
Woke caps 🤣
I wonder how much better these would sound with quality crossover components. Those iron core chokes and the electrolyte caps are… Not the way I would go with.
Ordering these speakers is not for the faint of heart. I ordered these speakers one and a half months ago. Every week I get a shipment of parts. Some the the parts are correct, some of the parts are not, and some are misssing. Ordered these speakers with white oak finish baffles and just received completely unfinished baffles.
They send you the parts for the crossover and you put them together using their board. There were parts missing (no capacitors) and very unclear instructions. There were some black and white pictures which are not clear. There were no instructions for the HeilAMT driver wiring to the crossover board - you just guess.
I am still waiting for the bottom plate or base and then I have to get speaker wire for the HeilAMT driver (this is not included),
Like I said, ordering these speakers is not for the faint of heart as you will have to deal with missing parts, weeks of parts being shipped and not very good instructions.
Wow, they should have addressed that here for you.
Sounds frustrating
I didn’t like the presentation of the new PAP speaker at Axpona unfortunately. I’ll give them a try again hopefully in a better setting.
Show some measurements, I bet these don’t have a somewhat flat frequency response.
Over the decades I have owned many box loudspeakers, but have long shifted to OBs. My current OB is Emerald Physics 3.4, 12" concentric polyester tweeter, very efficient; at 40" tall, it's half the height of my long gone Maggie 3.5Rs, yet throws a comparable sound stage without impeding on room aesthetic. My weak link is my room which is 20 ft+ x 35 ft deep, further compromised with vaulted open beam ceilings and large glass windows front and rear. As good as the 3.4s sound, because of the room's volume I need sub woofer reinforcement for large scale music. 2 SVS subs didn't blend well and are long gone to a happy surround sound owner. Enter Veri-fi with newly introduced Vanguard Caldea 12" @$399. I have 2 on order. HTH
This interview really didn’t address a lot of issues.
1) One of the cons of OB speakers is that they need to be a minimum for 2-3’ from the front wall
2) The other big con is that they are usually big speakers and it is hard to create an OB speaker with good bass extension in the bass
3) Con number 2 is the reason you more often see hybrid OB speakers where the tweeter and midrange are OB but the woofer is in some kind of cabinet. Allows for the design of a much smaller speaker
4) For DIYers, a OB speaker is attractive because it makes building the speaker much easier. You are just building a front baffle and do not have to worry nearly as much about cabinet resonances
5) Woofers optimized for OB speakers are not hard to find, tweeters and midranges need not be designed for OB applications
6) The crossover is not necessarily easier for OB applications and there is nothing unique to OB speakers in terms of choice of crossover points
OBs make the modularity of this company possible and modularity is, to me, the real distinguishing factor for this company. It is a really neat concept that I have not seen any other company do.
Nor did it hit on one of strongest attributes of OB, ... dipole propagation.
Dipoles simply don't excite the room's resonances the way monopoles do.
Agreed, many good points.
I'd add that typically, unless a loudspeaker platform is designed to be integrated with the front boundary wall of a listening room, oftentimes the experience is best when the loudspeakers are brought well out into the room, ... boxes or dipoles.
Dipoles are so so different in their presentation.
Experiencing the bass energy becomes more velocity dominant intensity rather than pressure dominant.
Counter-intuitively, as long as the listening distance isn't increased, they can offer superior bass response in larger rooms.
I was eager to hear OB at the Audio Fest, I came away unimpressed. Of course the room was certainly a factor, but heard many in the same size space that impressed me much more.
@@pnichols6500 Getting an OP system properly setup in what was likely a small hotel room would be particularly challenging. I suggest trying to audition a good OB speaker in a better setting before passing judgement. I’m a big fan of OB speakers, but like most things in audio, it comes down to personal preferences (what you value in your audio reproduction).
@@FOH3663You would appreciate the speakers I am having built right now. It is a MTWW configuration. The woofers are two 15” woofers per side, something that would never be needed if there was a cabinet. The speaker is also bi-amped which allows me to use a high power amp for the woofers and a low power amp for the tweeter and midrange which really opens up what I can use on top. Right now the plan is to use a 10wpc Class A amp up top which probably would not work if the speaker was completely passive. A low power tube amp should work nicely as well. The unit to implement the electronic crossover also has DSP, which I regard as having FAR more advantages than disadvantages, at least in the bass region.
Will the design work? Time will tell, but I am optimistic. The speaker is based on an existing OB design by a professional designer and the only changes are adding a second 15” woofer and placing the midrange over the tweeter instead of under it (no room under the tweeter with dual 15” woofers).
Will everyone like this speaker? No. Some will not like or value the sound from a OB configuration. There should be plenty of bass, but it is not going to pressurize a room like bass coming from a cabinet and some people will not like that. I’m using a compression horn tweeter and some people are not fans of horns. Still other people focus on coincidence of the drivers and for them, a coaxial tweeter/midrange is the only way to go. This should be my “end game” speaker, but it would not be that for many people.
Shouldn't be an "open back" speaker? The baffle looks like the baffle on any box speaker.
?
No speaker is perfect , but very few are excellent with a wide range of sound you put through them .
Well, you should know, if you visited Danny Richie..!!
not that guy please.
트리오10 하일트위터를 사고 싶은데 환율이 너무 올랐네요.
Open baffles are not the best. Not even close. They have a "sound" that is very appealing, easy to listen to, and enjoyable. For a lot of people they can be an end game setup. I have no issues with OB speakers. But I have a real problem with people thinking they are magic. The best OB speaker anyone could possibly make will perform similarly to an infinite baffle speaker. An infinite baffle speaker does not act like a point source. Hell, any baffle at all will actually reduce the ability of the speaker to act as a pure point source.
"Open baffles are not the best."
Also
"....they can be an end game speaker" 😂
@@tedkay5272 These two statements are not contradicting.
As NRD, Ron said. OB It’s a different animal.
What’s missing in your discussion is the room. Open baffles are the best sounding speakers in my room. They trounce box speakers. Trounce them. But maybe in your room the opposite is true. But I will say this: a lot of folks with “regular” listening rooms (smallish, often multi purpose, odd shapes) should give open baffles a try if you are having trouble finding a speaker that works.
If you have a big BIG room, you can bring your box speakers.
Where is Danny from GR research? I bet he can explain why these speakers suck and sell us parts to make them better 😂
Yep, entire audio industry has been wrong for 50 years.
Interesting concept but I would never buy it’s. This and gr research open baffles sound like a great idea but I’ll stick with Maggie’s or Caladans
While I like the way of your interviews and how you present your channel, I have a problem with the concept of OB. It is the most flawed speaker concept in many cases. First the phase shift, which does not only works for one frequency, no it is all over the spectrum such a bass speaker has to play, this is hardly to position in a correct position. I've heard many of those OB speaker and none of them were able to play a correct, precise fast bass. All of them had a strange tonality which was kind of diffuse especially for vocals in the lower region. The soundstage was Omni present all around you, but that was not correct. I think these kind of speakers rise because on the one hand they look exotic and on the other hand they are damn cheap to produce. Think what ever you want but there are only two type of speaker concepts that fulfill the fundamental requirements of good speaker design and that are closed boxes and hornspeaker.
A flawed concept indeed. You are a lone wolf speaking the truth while others line up to throw money at them.
The bass on my open baffles (Spatial Audio M3 Sapphires) is sublime. Correct, precise bass is probably their standout attribute.
Great video, a lot to digest. However, you have to present the person who is talking. This is elementary decency.
0:19
@@Jayiyagi OK, barely after the beginning.
Why dafuq would you put a 15 inch woofer in an open baffle i understand the tweeter but what a waste
Why wouldn’t you? He explains why he uses large drivers in the video btw
You have to use large drivers because you have to move huge amounts of air to overcome the phase cancelation for the amount of money your paying for these speakers you could have someone install an infinite baffle system that would sound way better and youd never even see them.
This is the stupidest speaker design iv ever seen
@@Jayiyagi its a stupid design no bass
@@Durkhead idk man. Lots of people love their speakers and it sounded pretty good to me even at a show setting with pretty darn good bass.
20.7s w 2-Rel Carbon Specials
JLA cr-1 active crossover 😊
Coda Ts v3 800w@4ohms
W4S 10th edition DAC2V2SE
Shunyata Denali 6000s v2 20A
Kimber Select KS6063 @@Jayiyagi
Otl amplfier with array of identical high ohm full range, It would be electrically/physics- the best most viable option. It happens to also be the simplest and cheapest.
Someone should put a system like this if they have a thousand or so dollars kicking around.
The otl amp can be even as small as a headphone otl amp.
The impedance should be around 100 ohms.
It would be about 300 dollars for good high efficiency speakers and some plywood. Hang it from the ceiling. You can use the chinese aliexpress hifi full ranges, if you cant find the right ones in the us anymore with all the crap garbage suspension and crap impedance and crap cones and crap magnetics holy shit.
I mean, you can even 3d print a basket buy some recone kits and use just a neodymium slug and make your own damn full range drivers and they would do better than the crap the us is pushing.
Anyways. You know what is what, build it. bose is the rotting devil compared to this otl system.
Best woofers for OB - with Qts less 0.25 and Bl more 20 !!! 🥸