What happens if we let immigrants without British passports vote? | The New Statesman podcast
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- Опубликовано: 29 мар 2024
- How would the results of a general election change if all British residents were allowed to vote, not just British citizens?
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Anoosh Chakelian is joined by Freddie Hayward, political correspondent, and Ben Walker, senior data journalist and co-founder of Britain Elects answer a listener's question.
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Speaks to the total lack of awareness by the podcast's hosts that Scotland, a country that's a part of the UK which allows foreign nationals a vote in their parliament elections, is not even mentioned.
Would be good if the people who ran this podcast could pay attention more regularly to more than just the Westminster bubble of politics.
don't hold your breath on that
This is not the first time I’ve been frustrated by the incredible ignorance of the media on this matter.
It is perfectly obvious from the debate than none of you actually know that Commonwealth citizens have the right to vote in this country. The chap with the black glasses talked about “Afro-Caribbean communities who had moved to Britain, got their citizenship, got naturalised, got the right to vote.” They already had the right to vote even before they were naturalised. They had the right to vote as soon as they set foot here!
It is not just permanent residents who are Commonwealth citizens who have the right to vote. Even students from Commonwealth countries have the right to vote. Thousands of Indian students will come to this country in September to start their courses and if the election is in October, they will have the right to vote.
Now, if you’d bothered to do your research before putting out this video, you could have had an interesting discussion about whether or not Commonwealth citizens do, in fact, exercise their right to vote. If so, what impact do they have on election results? Do foreign students vote? Do any foreign governments encourage their citizens to vote in this country? I can easily imagine the Modi government trying to mobilise Indian students to go out and vote for candidates who support India’s position on Kashmir.
this is something which China or Russia wud do rather than modi lol. He himself has to worry abt his elections this year and tbf no one in India honestly gives a 2 penny to what UK thinks abt Kashmir. At the end of the day UK doesn't have anything in Kashmir and it doesn't want to be in bad books of growing India right? Besides UK still needs the FTA wid India so UK will have to shut its mouth on Kashmir anyways. Its actually a shame for UK's politicians that Australia got the FTA wid India but UK still hasn't.
When I moved to the EU, I stopped voting in UK elections because I felt voters should have to live with the consequences of their vote. Brexit has changed that for me: I live with the consequences of a vote I couldn't participate in. I am now fully registered to vote in the next UK election, and will do so. Having been an emigrant for many years, I also feel that when you have lived, worked and paid tax in a country for 10 years, you should also be able to apply for the right to vote for who governs you.
Whinge whinge whinge. I’m a Brit who moved to Australia. The reason being is Aussies are positive and can do, and also mostly respect and take care of their country. Took years to get the citizenship and therefore the right to vote. Couldn’t even vote for the local council til a citizen. Why people think they have the right to turn up to another country and get all the rights from day 1 is beyond me.
@@deanunio Are you really saying an application procedure after 10 years working & paying tax = demanding rights from day 1?
I'm disappointed by the lack of awareness of Anoosh Chakelian, Freddie Hayward and Ben Walker. They just don't know the law about right to vote in the United Kingdom.
Irish nationals resident in the UK and commonwealth countries (e.g India, Nigeria, Cyprus, Malta, ...) nationals with leave to remain have a right to vote in general elections.
Ben Walker could have come with data on the voting patterns for Westminster MPs of those nationals but couldn't be bothered. What a waste.
Commonwealth citizens living in the UK without a British passport are indeed allowed to vote.in general elections in the UK.
All of them? Or just those born before a cut-off date?
I only ask because I know that date of birth can impact immigration status of many commonwealth citizens.
Thats why they're called commonwealth citizens. Used to be British subject, arent titled to UK citizen since the empire has gone.
And that's why this country is righter than it really is as a result.
@@dazjackson1972 all Commonwealth and Irish citizens with leave to remain can vote in the UK, there is no cut off date
@@cd8190 Quite correct - I was thinking of automatic "Right of Abode" for commonwealth citizens born pre 1983.
just watched (and enjoyed) this, then went for a walk around a local south london park where i noticed someone that either was, or looked remarkably like, freddie sitting on a bench. wanted to say to them how much i appreciated their work, and mind. so impressed by their ability to communicate complex ideas in a digestible and engaging way, and their balanced perspectives. but wasn't sure it was them and don't like interrupting people's down time. so sharing praise here, regardless of whether it was freddie or not.
have also passed by andrew marr around westminster a number of times and would offer the same praise. appreciate whole new statesman crew, keep up the good work!
Commonwealth citizens with permanent residency status can vote in all UK elections under the current rules. The Labour Party's proposal was targeted at EU Nationals with permanent residency and settled status who will also be granted the right to vote
Yes. I don’t think they ever explain why they thought Bulgarians living in the UK should be able to vote, but Japanese people shouldn’t.
It wouldn't be more humane or better. I'm settled in the UK without a UK passport. I don't like taxation without representation. However, I don't want to see people who aren't British and not lived in the country long enough to vote either. If you want to vote, get your British citizenship then. It's not that difficult if you've been paying taxes and conducting your affairs legally for five or six consecutive years living here.
Why whould a nation let non-citizens vote in national elections?
Some countries let permanent residents vote in local elections but for me you choose to become a citizen and join the new nation politcally (or not).
The more people we have voting who have no long term attachment to the country the better, the current PM is a shining example.
People without uk passports CAN vote if they have leave to remain status and come from a commonwealth country.
What would happen if you let all British Passport holders vote. You don't do that by making it difficult for millions of us to vote with voter ID when there is virtually no voter fraud.
If you change Boundaries in your favour.
Don't have PR so every vote counts.
We don't have PR - so not every vote counts. It would be better to have it.
You tried to rig the electoral system via importing people from particular countries, you then ignored mass fraud, corruption and crimes against British children and now it's slowly catching up with you
There is voter fraud, it is exclusively in immigrant communities.
Have a Google, you will struggle to find a native there in the news headlines, but there are many Asians and they are predominantly Labour with a couple of Tories.
Go see
People should only be allowed to vote in one nominated country.
It us unacceptable that an Eastern European (for example) could vote for a nationalist party back home, then vote for an "open borders" party here in the UK.
Compulsory voting, with small fine as per Australia, for all tax paying residents.
No taxation without representation.
But also declare the total for " none of the above ".
If none gets highest, bye election required, no one declared winner.
Declare winner in re-run, but exclude those who lost deposits.
Radical, I know, but may be easier than trying for proportional representation, for people to understand.
Most people may want PR, but it is defining which of the 57 varieties that is the problem.
Most immigrants, even if they can vote, don't vote. This is why the hard right narrative that London now votes Labour so much because it's full of immigrants isn't true. London votes Labour more because it's got a higher number of younger people living there and younger people are more likely to rent, especially so in London, and vote Labour (at this current time anyway). You probably have to live in a country a long time before you actually get invested into its politics. And if you're an immigrant from certain, non Western countries, the whole ideological divide between British political parties might make little sense. Many non Western countries have political divides based on religious identity and other forms of social identity, as opposed to ideological differences on things like tax and spending.
How can they vote if they’ve no ID? Or are the rules being bent?
You may or may not think in principle this is a good idea. However, it will broadly be supported by parties on the political left, and they will adopt this policy because only because they think these people will vote for them.
Why is he making a distinction between immigrant and European?
The only reason I would have to take the trivia exam and pay the fees to become a British citizen is to vote.
commonwealth citizens who have settled status are allowed to vote in the general election.
That would not be a viable vote only people domicile in the UK should be allowed to vote.Legal immigrants who make their home in the UK should also be allowed to vote.
You already do let immigrants (non-commonwealth) without British passports vote 😅
Why don't you give British passport to all people who live here for say, 5 years. Then you don't have to worry about giving right of vote to other nationals. They will be British nationals. Australia does this, and they don't do too badly there. In fact, they are doing much better than Britain, even are able to sign trade deals that benefit them.
People can moan all they want about councils and politicians. Well, at least JOIN one of the two main parties in your local area and attend all meetings, then when it comes to voting for candidates you will have a say. You also will have a say on other things. Become councillors and candidates and vote for each other. Do what they did. Infiltrate and take over. Do what you can to get into the civil service, police and NHS office work, where you can learn things you otherwise wouldn't and anonymously blow the whistle and sabotage their nefarious plans. Pull together again as people used to.
Get in one of the corporations and parties, keep reasonably quiet and don't make waves at first. Agree with them as much as you need to, avoid being "got out" - even if pretending convincingly sickens you. My father has to after WWII when he was infiltrating Nazi cell groups with contingency plans (extremely dangerous work), get others likewise in then when there is enough of us, take back over. That is what the cultural Marxists have done. Do the same.
ALL parties are controlled, whether or not they know it. Their purpose is to split the vote so that one of the usual two get in.
The ONLY way is to join one of the two and infiltrate. I doubt enough of you are prepared to commit the time and effort though. I know from experience that most of you only want to moan, vote and rely on other people to do everything for you. When haven't most you been like that?
No, enough of you won't do it the sensible way. If you would then you would have done it years ago.
Just learn at last you have to be your own saviours.
Open the gates and let foreigners take the rudder! 😂😂😂
The US, a classic country of immigration, would confirm Ben only with *newly minted citizens* - if they do vote they tend to skew left.
However: immigrants are often "conservative by attitude" - they try to "make it" in the new country by themselves without government money, also favoring more "traditional values" - you can call them old fashioned if you chosse ... as in "a marriage is between a man and a woman" and so on, modern speak would describe them as "less woke" ... and thus their left skew is sharply removed.
Just look at the Latinos in the US! They choose Donald Trump over Joe Biden in surprisingly high numbers - and pull the lever for him! They have done so AFTER exoeriencing his presidency. And Asian Americans, especially ethnic Indians and Chinese even skew Republican - clearly so.
Your point about immigrants not voting as a single political bloc is correct. A lot of the discourse around immigrants assumes they'd all vote one way if they could, when in reality they have a mix of political views just like any other group.
However, some of your statements are also mistaken. For example Asian-Americans don't "clearly" skew Republican. In 2020 polling Asian-Americans supported Biden over Trump 72/28 (per Pew Research Center)
Many of the immigrants from Asia to the US are highly-skilled people with at least one advanced degree. Republicans have been losing college-educated voters in recent cycles and that probably extends to naturalised citizens as well.
are you kidding me that caribbean migrants voted for ukip because we are predominantly christian? Would be v interested in the evidence behind yet another odd new statesman take. maybe speak to a few brown people? be nice to see the odd one on here too. more for you than me as don't think i can put up with this anymore...
VIVA RISHI I THINK HE IS ONE OF THE BEST UK PRIMINESTER HE IS KINDLY💚💚💚💚💚
Thats a tough one! They will vote for the party which gives them everything, and expects nothing from them. The party which always puts them first, prioritises them before British citizens at all times, It is called the Labour Party!
it already happens with commonwealth citizens in UK. plus it already happens in Scotland, what a joe of of a podcast
New Statesman. This is a very uninformed podcast. You guys didnt even google. And you are making these claims with so much confidence. Please take this episode down.
- 1) I was an immigrant for over 5 years. Legal British Residents from commonwealth nations have always been allowed to vote. The day I got my NI, I was sent my electoral letter from my council.
- 2) The other guy is right, back then I couldn't care less about voting when I was just struggling to get by.
😢
I think if you pay tax in a country, then you should have a right to vote and have your say in how a country is run
So British citizens who do not pay tax should be disenfranchised?
@@Tukulti-Ninurta no, not at all, I meant if you pay tax (and are not a citizen of the country you are paying tax to) then you should be entitled to vote. If you don't pay tax and are a citizen, then you can vote and have all the rights and usual. It's more about including people than excluding.
Depends what you mean by "pay tax."
Some people are paying taxes and have homes in multiple countries - voting rights should only be activated in one nominated country in my view.
@@dazjackson1972 Yes, I can agree with that, so maybe have the choice between voting with citizenship or where you pay tax and reside in for a minimum of 6 months per 12 months.
@@archie-127 I don't like the idea of a person voting to keep their original country "pure" by supporting extreme right wing parties, but then voting more liberal parties in UK elections - as it suits their short term needs.
I've worked with enough EU immigrants to know that these views aren't uncommon.
Wow. Maybe you might consider whether turnout in minorities is low *right now* and that using pop psychology to estimate how many would turn out if they actually had a right to vote is a level of critical thinking I won't bother to qualify, but that you might give it a try.
Elections are not all equal so estimating the ones immigrants can't vote in based on the ones they can is comparing apples to pears.
Be honest - are you trying to get me to unsubscribe and pay for my news?
Well, surely he's measuring the turnout of those who _do_ have the right to vote? Otherwise that would be nonsensical.
How about we avoid COMPLICITY IN WAR CRIME accusations ?
We should never allow this (never). Those that come to the uk must go through the immigration process, if they fail that process they must be deported, if they do pass the immigration process fhen they must assimilate into british culture (no ifs or buts)
If Andrew Marr aint here i aint watchin'
as an immigrant, you shouldn't allow non-citizen ie people without british passport to vote, this just muddle the water too much.
you should only allow people that have long term participation and commitment in the UK to vote, at the end of the day you are voting for the country's future long term
We all are immigrants! So would be wise to prevent self ignorance and arrogance, by just opening your horizons to the real education and self awareness 🙏🏻
Black ukip voters lol
Did you never meet Winston McKenzie?
@@dazjackson1972 No. Do I want to look him up?
@@seasonmists he's been kicked out of several different parties - but in 2014 he was "Commonwealth Spokesman" for UKIP.
He's a former boxer of Carribbean origin.
I recall some colourful disagreements between him and privileged white Remainers during the Referendum.
@@dazjackson1972 lol thanks!
Treason.
We get the likes of Khan & Humza staying in power
Both have won elections without this, so would that make much difference?
huge improvement over boris and sunak then? ;)
Yawwwn
I look forward to seeing the islam party gaining their first seat.
George Galloway will probably join them too.
PLEASE LEND ME YOUR SUPPORT FOR WELSH INDEPENDENCE!🏴
VOTE LEAVE UK!
FREE WALES FROM WESTMINSTER!🏴
When you say "Independence" do you mean you want to be truly independent, or simply a member of the German superstate?
@@dazjackson1972 independence
@@hadrianbird2645 A respectable position. 👍
Unsubbed
because?
No one cares
this isnt an airport, you dont need to announce your departure. flounce away.
Whinge
@@kanedNunable But if you're about to board a 737 you might be thoughtful at least.
Enjoy the massive increase in Islamist candidates!
Can't see why you think that would happen. Most muslim immigrants to the UK surely come from south asian countries which are in the commonwealth. They can already vote once they are legally resident in the UK.
If the law were someday changed to give all resident immigrants the vote (rather than just those from commonwealth countries) the electorate would presumably be marginally less muslim as a result.
THESE DAYS, you can't even say 'far right' without being thrown in prison.