You are a bit confused by soviet reactor compartment architecture :) On K-171 they were unable to open enclosure door, not compartment door. Reactors are separated from the compartment space inside special enclosure, called "appartnaya vygorodka". It is airtight but rated for much lower pressure that compartment walls, main purpose being to isolate compartment from heat and contain minor spills, radioactive gases etc. To complicate matters further, instead of simple door reactor enclosure is equipped with small sluice room for further protection and decontamination. Dunno when the practice started but on 941 there is additional sluice room (with shower) built before bow entrance to reactor compartment. Do a video about K-429, the only nuclear sub in the world which was sunk twice (!!!) in two years. It is interesting 'cause it is mix of idiocy and heroism typical to Pacific fleet. It is the only case in the world history when crew (112 persons) was able to leave the nuclear sub via torpedo room with minimal loses (2). Also the commanding officer who rushed K-249 into next patrol without proper rest and check later was promoted to command Norther fleet and rushed K-278 (Komsomolets) to the sea :(.
I bet you could tell a tale or two. I'll look those up, obviously I've heard of the komsomolets and her fate, the escape pod being very tragic. I have massive respect for the Soviet submariner.
As a former US Navy nuclear reactor operator (carrier), I just absolutely cannot believe three men actually entered the reactor compartment while the reactor was critical. Those guys couldn't have lasted very long. What a terrible way to die, too.
@@thundercactus I'm not sure about submarine terminology, but "Reactor Room (RR)" and "Reactor Compartment (RC)" are two separate things. The RC holds the actual Reactor. The RR is the space that holds all the support systems for the RC components. I wonder if the Russian equivalent of the RR is where the sailors were.
Just read your comment and I couldn’t imagine how bad that was to go like that (shudders). By the way I’m a Brit and visited the George W Bush at port in Portsmouth UK a couple of years ago. What an amazing experience.
'Civilian contractor' in Soviet terms means soldier with no rank. Since all industry was party controlled, and the party ruled military production to be the highest - and only - importance, a 'civilan contractor' working for the army/navy could do nothing but obey. Unless, of course, the contractor had higher ranking party connections than the military commander in question. So a civilian contractor in the USSR IS NOT what a civilian contractor in the US is.
Kind of people commie put behind that machinery and missiles. We are so lucky to still be alive as a world after stupid and lazy ppl like these in the hands of sucha weapons.
@@chadx8269 Yes, they were lazy. Instead of reporting the problem and dealing with it properly, they decided to do it their own way. The lazy way. The way that would stop them from getting in to trouble. That's typical laziness. You can be lazy and hard working. Laziness is an attitude.
Judging from the operators reaction to discovery that the valve was open it seems obvious that it was forgotten by the engineer in charge, otherwise it would have been reported immediately. People tend to do stupid stuff if they think their head is is on the block.
So at this point I have to assume Russia's actual submariner programs can reasonably be referred to as "Glorious plan to litter every ocean with nuclear reactors"
Their behavior sounds more or less like what I would do if you made me a reactor tech without giving me any training and had a policy of holding subordinates "accountable" for anything that went wrong without making structural changes or ever doing anything to embarrass anyone with more clout. So yes, very bad, but it would be unwise to assume that that sort of mismanagement is or was a uniquely soviet disease. That kind of rot creeps in wherever it isn't regularly cleaned out.
America certainly wasn’t blameless when it came to handling nuclear materials either but I gotta say we have a FAR better track record. The only two nuclear subs we lost had nothing to do with the reactor and we certainly didn’t lose one with 48 nukes onboard. 🤦🏻♂️ On the other hand we did high-altitude tests on nuclear bombs and detonated a couple right in the middle of the Ozone layer near Hawaii… We all have our own unique brand of stupid I suppose.
I’m a naval history nut, but even I sometimes am left in shock at the sheer number of nuclear accidents that plagued the Soviet navy. They were definitely more interested in national prestige than safety, and it shows.
@u666sa The Soviets/Russians would be best served to OWN their unique brand of incompetence. It may be embarrassing but their bad at hiding their nuclear FUBARS and acting dumb and making denials only makes them seem to be functionally disabled. Be responsible and don’t compound problems be trying to sweep stuff under the rug.
Your picture of Krasheninnikov base is actually the one labeled "Pavlovsky Bay" in English, below that label it says, "bukhta Krasheninnikova" in Russian. Both locations share the name "Krasheninnikova" in some sources, but that base is the northern one on your map.
Getting information on your rival's submarine fleet in 1970's: extensive espionage and hefty bribes. Getting information on your rival's submarine fleet in 2020's: Patreon.
Just came across this channel in the last few days. I watched the Thresher report and found it fascinating. Im really into subs atm im usually a aircraft fan but find the sub life quite interesting not to mention the sacrifice made by the brave sailors over the years. I couldn't imagine a more terrifying way to die to be honest. May they all rest in peace. Great job! Very informative!
It would be interesting if you could also do a segment on the K-314. On August 10, 1985, the Project 671 - Victor-I class submarine K-314 was at the Chazhma Bay naval yard outside Vladivostok. The reactor went prompt critical during refueling operations because the new control rods had been incorrectly removed and the reactor lid was dropped on the reactor when the crane failed. The ensuing steam explosion led to the release of large amounts of radioactivity, contaminating an area of 6km in length on the Shotovo Peninsula and the sea outside the naval yard. Ten people working on the refueling of the vessel died in the accident. The damaged reactor compartment still contains its nuclear fuel. The boat was never operated again. This is also the same boat that surfaced in front of the USS Kitty Hawk in March 1984 and got run over by the carrier. The K-314 suffered significant damage and had to be towed by to port by a Russian sea-going tug. The collision caused the Carrier to spill several thousand gallons of Jet fuel into the sea from a fuel tank ruptured during the collision. The K-314 also left a portion of its propeller stuck in the bow of the Kitty Hawk. How do the Soviet-era sonar operators on that boat not hear a conventional Aircraft Carrier at 5 miles headed in their direction? Were Soviet-era sonar operators that incompetent or passive sonar equipment on a Victor-1 that incapable? Your opinion Chief?
The Victor I was very much an active boat, loud, with a mediocre passive sonar but hilariously overpowered active, so if it wasn't pinging, and running faster than creep speed, then yes she'd be pretty much deaf
They were not a part of standard issue on Soviet subs. "Rags" were used (they were not actual rags but length of cloth clean and new, name came from sail navy) to collect water/wash the decks. Not a lot of space for the mop, especially near reactor. Vacuum cleaners were standard issue, however.
Something doesn't make sense. It says the 3 guys went into the compartment, shutting the door behind them. The water on the floor flashed to steam, pressurized the compartment, and they couldn't open the door to get out. In a panic they didn't think to start an equalization pump. I'm thinking that they couldn't even try to open the door, or start the pump, because they were already dead. For the water on the floor to have steamed, they were in a room that had to have been over 212 degrees. That's a tad too warm to be working in. But, they did say the water on the floor "flashed" to steam, causing them to be trapped. That would mean that the water on the floor was already over 212 degrees, the compartment was already pressurized (allowing the water to remain in a liquid state), the pressure in the compartment would have to suddenly drop in order for the water to "flash" steam. If your now asking "Couldn't they have opened the door when, for whatever reason, the pressure in the compartment suddenly dropped?". The answer to that would be "Oh hell no!". Water flashing to steam could also be called a steam explosion. Roughly , 1 cubic foot of water will try to occupy 1000 cubic feet. Instantly. Still, at 212 degrees, nobody was alive very long, unless they were wearing a spacesuit.
I DID NOT realized your patreon was only $1/month! That's an absolute steal, I'm gonna subscribe when I get home and I encourage everyone else to do the same. You can't even get a candy bar for a dollar these days, so this is what I consider to be "true value". Thanks for the upload, this was a really interesting story!
@@SubBrief I must say, such generosity on your end has a way of compelling me to reciprocate. When a restaurant has great food for low prices, I always tip big. I don't see why the same principle shouldn't apply here, too! Thanks a bunch for all the great content you give us, I've always been so interested in submarines and it truly is wonderful to learn so much from someone so knowledgeable. You just can't find anything like it anywhere other than HI Sutton's blog.
Jive's pronunciation of foreign words reminds me of my time in the Corps and I love it. Watch this man's patreon. There's a lot more first hand knowledge than he lets on.
You would think that after guys decide that being radiated is better than the punishment that the Soviet union gives they would reconsider their way of doing things
The attempted cover up was worse than the mistake. They should've just came clean to the captain and immediately started cleaning the boat with their toothbrushes.
In the last slide is the picture on the left where the reactors are placed for long term storage? If thats correct was the reason the casing were cylinder shaped because they cut out the compartment and just stuck it in the container?
Off topic but just curious. I always see surface ships crashing through rough seas. How do the subs handle it? I assume they just cruise right under the tumult? How does the surface noise of big waves effect sonar contacts? I know squat about subs (or ships really) but I always wondered about that
The two bay locations you point at in the video is just one single location. Both bases are located at Petropavlovsk. However they are opposite of each other in the same bay. The base on the south point of you map doesn’t exist.
Is the lower left photo on the final slide what reactors in storage look like? Is that the whole reactor section of the sub sitting in storage or did they put the reactor into another tube shaped vessel?
When they decommission a submarine in Russia or the former Soviet Union they just cut the reactor compartment off and put it on stands and stilts and leave it there. And if there was a major accident like the k-19 then they usually dump it in the ocean or on a secluded island in the middle of nowhere.
Unbelievable! It's small wonder there weren't _more_ catastrophic reactor accidents in the USSR. Their attitude towards safety reflects how little operators and crew understood about the actual consequences of what they were doing, and the treatment of nuclear accidents as State secrets meant nobody could learn from previous mistakes. Add in people terrified they'll lose status and perks if they are honest about mistakes or stand up to superiors (see Toptunov and Dyatlov in the Chernobyl accident), and you have a recipe for disaster.
This should be Krasheninnikova Bay near Petropavlovsk, not Krasheninnikov Bay in the Kuriles. Flew many a flight off Petropovolosk so know the area a bit.
Was Wassily Archipov on board ? I think because he experianced the deadliness of radioactivity here , he refused to shoot nuc torpedo in Cuba crise later .....
Where was the water from the primary loop going to cause a low level? I thought the primary loop of a reactor was supposed to be preserved as the same water
I am noticing a trend with these videos, if you served in the Soviet Submarine Navy during the cold war, the United States was the least of your worries. Being in the Soviet Sub Navy was the main threat to your life.
It has been bothering me for a while now that you show a picture of the Kamchatka peninsula in this brief with two locations marked on it a couple hundred miles apart that are both actually located in the same 10 mile wide bay. There is no visible naval base anywhere on the island marked as Krasheninnikov bay, where did you get this faulty information about being based there giving you a day's headstart. Both Krasheninnikov and Petropavlovsky are about the same distance from the entrance to the bay they are in together.
Judging by the catastrophic track record of the Soviet navy operating nuclear submarines, it is completely understandable why they implemented a great ammount of automation on them. I mean, conscripts with limited experience, formation and will just can do so much.
Jesus christ. How did THREE people think it was okay to go into the reactor compartment while critical? And how did no one else back there, presumably nuclear qualified, stop them?
Every time I think I've heard the worst thing the Soviet navy did...I seem to find something worse. Then again...it could be worse. that Echo boat where they *forgot to unhook the control rods from the reactor lid* before removing said lid to refuel the reactor comes to mind. As does the mess that is/was Andreev Bay. EDIT: that said...the logic used in the first incident is absolutely amazing...and by logic I should say lack thereof. I mean I'm not even a sailor of any description and when I heard you say they wanted to turn the reactor on to boil the water off...um yeah, THAT can't go wrong.
Hi Jive. Thank. You for these videos. I've had a rough couple of days mentally but fallen into a deep hole watching your videos. It's so interesting. I have so many question but you're probably sworn to secrecy on most. But how can I got hold of active sonar used in combat? Doesn't matter what period but I'd love to just analyse some myself. Would be great to get into it as a hobby Thanks you for the distraction and entertainment
@@SubBrief thank you for the reply! Can't wait for more analyse videos and need to check out that game you play. Looks interesting! Have a nice day, sir
Hey jive quick question ....why did mordern subs get rid of the deck guns? ...also . why doesnt regular radar waves penetrate water? Why do we change from radar above the water .and sonar underwater ?
Not really needed. Deck guns were defensive in nature to keep the boat safe as it ran on the surface, the moment you get things like snorkels for diesel boats and reactors you can just stay under water permanently keeping you stealthy. Plus the guns acted as drag which slows the boat down.
@@rifleman2c997 the AA guns were defensive, the deck gun was not, that was for sinking merchants without wasting torpedoes as there were few of them. If surprised by an enemy warship on the surface the subs would dive and try to escape, with some rare exceptions.
@@eduardocharlier7560 Problem is Deck guns aren't really much use now a days with the ability to sink a merchant with a couple missiles from 60-120nm out, Less exposure to being counter detected.
@@rifleman2c997 I've often thought there might be a role for a cheaper submarine-launched missile or torpedo for use against low threat-level enemy ships. Small enough that more than one can go into each rack replacing a single heavy-weight torpedo.
@@rifleman2c997 oh yes, absolutely, the deck gun became obsolete as a concept by the end of WW2 with a greater emphasis on stealth and greater risk associated with being on the surface. For a nuclear boat it's really not even worth considering since you want to be submerged at all times near targets.
They practically transited the whole Atlantic ocean (north to south) and then transited the whole Pacific (south to north). Wouldn't be easier to just cut across the north pole?
There are things you can do in life where cutting a corner or "fixing" something before it gets anyone in trouble is ok.... Then there are things you don't do that with, one of the things you can't f about with is anything to do with nuclear power, or submarines in general.
Unlike the U.S. Navy where nuclear operators are trained in reactor principles and nuclear physics as well as in their specialty such as electronics or mechanics the average Soviet submarine sailor was given only minimal training and that training was the same as sailors on conventional powered ships. Only the officers have any real training in nuclear power so the crew members taking these actions had very little or no knowledge of radiation, contamination, or how their actions would affect the reactor. This has to be remembered when reading any of these stories about events during the Cold War and for some time thereafter. The Russians are still far behind the U.S. in that regard as they still put secrecy above safety meaning they don't trust their own sailors enough to keep information about the reactors or supporting equipment to themselves. We saw that play out in the Kursk incident. While not a nuclear incident it still demonstrated the old Soviet mentality of putting secrecy above all else including the lives of the men operating their vessels. There are some inconsistencies in this story as well. "Feedwater" is a term associated with the secondary plant i.e. the steam generators and is not the source of water used in the reactor itself. The soviets employed the same type of two loop system as the U.S. and other navies. What appears to have happened is the loss of feed water to the steam generator caused the reactor to overheat at this is the heat sink for the heat generated by the reactor when in operation. Feed water contacting the outer casing of the reactor would cause steam, but there is normally several feet of clearance between the reactor vessel and the bilge so the steam would not have been generated until the water reached the bottom of the vessel. The steam could have cause a pressure buildup such that the reactor compartment door could not have been opened. The three sailors were probably steamed alive. A pretty horrible way to die. Their hair did not fall out because they either died from an acute dose meaning vital organs were killed before hair follicles or the more likely cause was the atmosphere. Dead people still have the hair they had when they were alive.
I wonder if they de-permed her when they moved her from Atlantic to Pacific Salt water problem is due to chloride stress corrosion with Stainless Steel
Okay as someone who actually knows the truth, the Soviet reactors were always enclosed in their own moderately shielding separate from the sub. The sub reactors were not constructed like the reactors on land or space. The three men were steamed to death by as much as 12 gallons of sea water. The photos from the incident are way too graphic but they do tell the hell of dying as they did.
I am interested in your comment. Describe how "...Soviet reactors were always enclosed in their own moderately shielding separate from the sub." and how is that adding to the video? I think you are honestly trying to say something important, but I don't understand your point.
How come i think i have heard that story before? but it is not the russian boat. it was one of the first batch of ccp china nuclear boat. i wonder if it is the same design....
Imagine being the NATO sonarmen listening to K-171 in 1981, what would be going through their minds as they listen to the charlie foxtrot circus that patrol was?
![Seungmin "그렇게, 천천히, 우리(As we are)" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/kAzmhLHePqU/mqdefault.jpg)
How do you detect soviet era boats? With a geiger counter..
How do you tell a Sailor from the Northern Banner Fleet on the beach?
He glows in the dark.
@@ScottKenny1978 In America only CIA glow in the dark
Ah dude, laughed so hard i wrecked a muscle under my stomach
@@blegi1245 terry davis told me so
I feel that them being based in Kamchatka may have cursed them. At least there were no torpedo boats...
Or British Fishing boats.
rifleman2c did they get by miss fire missile, torpedo, or something 😂
Do you see torpedo boats?
*throws binoculars into the ocean*
This thread made me want to get back to playing Ultimate Admiral Dreadnoughts Lol.
Kamchatka?! I KNEW I saw torpedo boats!
ah, a man of culture
**throws binoculars overboard**
Aw man. I don’t get the reference. I’m clearly a scrub.
@@bend1483 See the Voyage of the 2nd Pacific Squadron.
THE CURSED FLEET
You are a bit confused by soviet reactor compartment architecture :) On K-171 they were unable to open enclosure door, not compartment door. Reactors are separated from the compartment space inside special enclosure, called "appartnaya vygorodka". It is airtight but rated for much lower pressure that compartment walls, main purpose being to isolate compartment from heat and contain minor spills, radioactive gases etc. To complicate matters further, instead of simple door reactor enclosure is equipped with small sluice room for further protection and decontamination. Dunno when the practice started but on 941 there is additional sluice room (with shower) built before bow entrance to reactor compartment.
Do a video about K-429, the only nuclear sub in the world which was sunk twice (!!!) in two years. It is interesting 'cause it is mix of idiocy and heroism typical to Pacific fleet. It is the only case in the world history when crew (112 persons) was able to leave the nuclear sub via torpedo room with minimal loses (2). Also the commanding officer who rushed K-249 into next patrol without proper rest and check later was promoted to command Norther fleet and rushed K-278 (Komsomolets) to the sea :(.
Thanks for the detail 👍
I bet you could tell a tale or two. I'll look those up, obviously I've heard of the komsomolets and her fate, the escape pod being very tragic. I have massive respect for the Soviet submariner.
Not only did he rush the first sub to patrol, according to you he changed the submarine's designation in the process ....
As a former US Navy nuclear reactor operator (carrier), I just absolutely cannot believe three men actually entered the reactor compartment while the reactor was critical. Those guys couldn't have lasted very long. What a terrible way to die, too.
There's a comment here explaining that there's actually couple of compartments, so no, they didn't go into the actual reactor.
If the goal is to reduce how long you have to suffer through radiation poisoning before dying, then the reactor room is probably the best place to be.
@@thundercactus I'm not sure about submarine terminology, but "Reactor Room (RR)" and "Reactor Compartment (RC)" are two separate things. The RC holds the actual Reactor. The RR is the space that holds all the support systems for the RC components. I wonder if the Russian equivalent of the RR is where the sailors were.
Just read your comment and I couldn’t imagine how bad that was to go like that (shudders). By the way I’m a Brit and visited the George W Bush at port in Portsmouth UK a couple of years ago. What an amazing experience.
No worse than storming bakhmut
I really like the way this channel is evolving and maturing, Ii am very happy to see it. Thanks for the interesting content!
Glad you enjoy it!
'Civilian contractor' in Soviet terms means soldier with no rank. Since all industry was party controlled, and the party ruled military production to be the highest - and only - importance, a 'civilan contractor' working for the army/navy could do nothing but obey. Unless, of course, the contractor had higher ranking party connections than the military commander in question.
So a civilian contractor in the USSR IS NOT what a civilian contractor in the US is.
That's completely red an d white to me.
Another misalignment between Eng and RU is Orphan. In Ru you are orphaned if you lose one parent....
They went into a reactor compartment while it was critical? What in the actual....?
Kind of people commie put behind that machinery and missiles. We are so lucky to still be alive as a world after stupid and lazy ppl like these in the hands of sucha weapons.
Jesus Christ! Those guys were dead as soon as they opened the door!
Yet again a Soviet submariner saves the World
Except that they were LAZY if they weren't no sub of there would be on the bottom PERMANENTLY here a great tip use the internet moron
@@chadx8269 Yes, they were lazy. Instead of reporting the problem and dealing with it properly, they decided to do it their own way. The lazy way. The way that would stop them from getting in to trouble. That's typical laziness. You can be lazy and hard working. Laziness is an attitude.
I’ve only recently found this channel. I find all these vids highly interesting.
Glad you enjoy it!
Judging from the operators reaction to discovery that the valve was open it seems obvious that it was forgotten by the engineer in charge, otherwise it would have been reported immediately. People tend to do stupid stuff if they think their head is is on the block.
Great channel sir, thanks for your service.
This is not bad luck, this is crew inefficiency, possible lack of training and serious leadership issues. Great video Aaron!
So at this point I have to assume Russia's actual submariner programs can reasonably be referred to as "Glorious plan to litter every ocean with nuclear reactors"
saves money when they dont have to decom em
It would *seem* that way, but it's best not to fool ourselves
I swear, the Soviets were like children when it came to anything nuclear. I don't understand how so many people can be so bad at their job.
The entire history of the Soviet Union is basically one extended lesson in why you should never let uninformed politicians make critical decisions
Their behavior sounds more or less like what I would do if you made me a reactor tech without giving me any training and had a policy of holding subordinates "accountable" for anything that went wrong without making structural changes or ever doing anything to embarrass anyone with more clout.
So yes, very bad, but it would be unwise to assume that that sort of mismanagement is or was a uniquely soviet disease. That kind of rot creeps in wherever it isn't regularly cleaned out.
America certainly wasn’t blameless when it came to handling nuclear materials either but I gotta say we have a FAR better track record. The only two nuclear subs we lost had nothing to do with the reactor and we certainly didn’t lose one with 48 nukes onboard. 🤦🏻♂️
On the other hand we did high-altitude tests on nuclear bombs and detonated a couple right in the middle of the Ozone layer near Hawaii… We all have our own unique brand of stupid I suppose.
Communism, no 9ne gave a crap.
I'm a fellow Michigander and ex-Navy, love your Navy news vids..
He's from Michigan, well me as well..former minesweep sailor as well. Fantastic channel.
I’m a naval history nut, but even I sometimes am left in shock at the sheer number of nuclear accidents that plagued the Soviet navy. They were definitely more interested in national prestige than safety, and it shows.
Pronunciation is hilarious as usual. MR. CRASH COOK :D LOL
If only the Soviets has invented the ShamWow, they could’ve removed every last drop in that reactor compartment!
@u666sa Dont take it too personally, vanya
@u666sa The Soviets/Russians would be best served to OWN their unique brand of incompetence. It may be embarrassing but their bad at hiding their nuclear FUBARS and acting dumb and making denials only makes them seem to be functionally disabled. Be responsible and don’t compound problems be trying to sweep stuff under the rug.
@@juliustheillustrious7727 A little bit of salty water in this video makes comrades really salty. Sometimes all it takes is to shut the valve ;)
@u666sa vanya please take salt out if vodka
Your picture of Krasheninnikov base is actually the one labeled "Pavlovsky Bay" in English, below that label it says, "bukhta Krasheninnikova" in Russian. Both locations share the name "Krasheninnikova" in some sources, but that base is the northern one on your map.
Everyone's a critic
Best Chanel I have found in ages . !!! Amazing insight. Thanks for sharing with us you are a Gentleman.
You're just crushing the video uploads and it's great.
Getting information on your rival's submarine fleet in 1970's: extensive espionage and hefty bribes.
Getting information on your rival's submarine fleet in 2020's: Patreon.
Love the content, man! Keep it up!
Appreciate it!
I just found your channel a couple of weeks ago and am really digging it. Keep it up! Fascinating info!
Welcome aboard!
Just came across this channel in the last few days. I watched the Thresher report and found it fascinating. Im really into subs atm im usually a aircraft fan but find the sub life quite interesting not to mention the sacrifice made by the brave sailors over the years. I couldn't imagine a more terrifying way to die to be honest. May they all rest in peace. Great job! Very informative!
So the US Navy just waited until it was dark and looked for glow-in-the-dark Soviet subs?
when you're more scared of the zampolit than of the radiation leak...
It would be interesting if you could also do a segment on the K-314. On August 10, 1985, the Project 671 - Victor-I class submarine K-314 was at the Chazhma Bay naval yard outside Vladivostok. The reactor went prompt critical during refueling operations because the new control rods had been incorrectly removed and the reactor lid was dropped on the reactor when the crane failed. The ensuing steam explosion led to the release of large amounts of radioactivity, contaminating an area of 6km in length on the Shotovo Peninsula and the sea outside the naval yard. Ten people working on the refueling of the vessel died in the accident. The damaged reactor compartment still contains its nuclear fuel. The boat was never operated again. This is also the same boat that surfaced in front of the USS Kitty Hawk in March 1984 and got run over by the carrier. The K-314 suffered significant damage and had to be towed by to port by a Russian sea-going tug. The collision caused the Carrier to spill several thousand gallons of Jet fuel into the sea from a fuel tank ruptured during the collision. The K-314 also left a portion of its propeller stuck in the bow of the Kitty Hawk. How do the Soviet-era sonar operators on that boat not hear a conventional Aircraft Carrier at 5 miles headed in their direction? Were Soviet-era sonar operators that incompetent or passive sonar equipment on a Victor-1 that incapable? Your opinion Chief?
The Victor I was very much an active boat, loud, with a mediocre passive sonar but hilariously overpowered active, so if it wasn't pinging, and running faster than creep speed, then yes she'd be pretty much deaf
KEEP DOING THESE
STORY TELLING IS TOP NOTCH
Dumb question, but did jumbo sponges or mops not exist back then? Isn't that what you would normally use to mop up a last bit of water.
They were not a part of standard issue on Soviet subs. "Rags" were used (they were not actual rags but length of cloth clean and new, name came from sail navy) to collect water/wash the decks. Not a lot of space for the mop, especially near reactor. Vacuum cleaners were standard issue, however.
Brilliant content again jive, thank you
There was a big old "Whiskey" base on Kamchatka. I've wondered if they still use it for anything.
Something doesn't make sense. It says the 3 guys went into the compartment, shutting the door behind them. The water on the floor flashed to steam, pressurized the compartment, and they couldn't open the door to get out. In a panic they didn't think to start an equalization pump. I'm thinking that they couldn't even try to open the door, or start the pump, because they were already dead.
For the water on the floor to have steamed, they were in a room that had to have been over 212 degrees. That's a tad too warm to be working in. But, they did say the water on the floor "flashed" to steam, causing them to be trapped. That would mean that the water on the floor was already over 212 degrees, the compartment was already pressurized (allowing the water to remain in a liquid state), the pressure in the compartment would have to suddenly drop in order for the water to "flash" steam. If your now asking "Couldn't they have opened the door when, for whatever reason, the pressure in the compartment suddenly dropped?". The answer to that would be "Oh hell no!". Water flashing to steam could also be called a steam explosion. Roughly , 1 cubic foot of water will try to occupy 1000 cubic feet. Instantly. Still, at 212 degrees, nobody was alive very long, unless they were wearing a spacesuit.
I DID NOT realized your patreon was only $1/month! That's an absolute steal, I'm gonna subscribe when I get home and I encourage everyone else to do the same. You can't even get a candy bar for a dollar these days, so this is what I consider to be "true value". Thanks for the upload, this was a really interesting story!
I need to up that rate.... lol. I will NOT do that. $1 for all the stuff. (bad at business) = me
@@SubBrief I must say, such generosity on your end has a way of compelling me to reciprocate. When a restaurant has great food for low prices, I always tip big. I don't see why the same principle shouldn't apply here, too!
Thanks a bunch for all the great content you give us, I've always been so interested in submarines and it truly is wonderful to learn so much from someone so knowledgeable. You just can't find anything like it anywhere other than HI Sutton's blog.
Yay! I like that you are trying new things :)
Tell me your Navy doesn't have a Hyman G rickover without telling me your Navy doesn't have a Hyman G Rickover.
Did you see Kursk sub game/simulator/quest? What is your opinion on inside compartments of the sub?
Hears the word "Kamchatka"
Starts looking for torpedo boats
I notice that you appear to live out in the country. Where it's nice and QUIET, LOL. Love your posts, Chief.
Jive's pronunciation of foreign words reminds me of my time in the Corps and I love it. Watch this man's patreon. There's a lot more first hand knowledge than he lets on.
You have gift for storytelling.
I love your videos. Are very interesting. Thx for your work!! 💪👍
Glad you like them!
You would think that after guys decide that being radiated is better than the punishment that the Soviet union gives they would reconsider their way of doing things
The attempted cover up was worse than the mistake. They should've just came clean to the captain and immediately started cleaning the boat with their toothbrushes.
Great Video!!!
bucket brigade sounds familiar, but it was coolant for the diesel
Bucket brigade worked. But the high tech nuclear evaporator didn’t. Conclusion - bucket brigade is better than nuclear powered options.
In the last slide is the picture on the left where the reactors are placed for long term storage? If thats correct was the reason the casing were cylinder shaped because they cut out the compartment and just stuck it in the container?
Facinating. What about K19?
The level of incompetence is mind-boggling. Reminds me of the game developer Wargaming from Minsk (?) XD
Off topic but just curious. I always see surface ships crashing through rough seas. How do the subs handle it? I assume they just cruise right under the tumult? How does the surface noise of big waves effect sonar contacts?
I know squat about subs (or ships really) but I always wondered about that
The two bay locations you point at in the video is just one single location. Both bases are located at Petropavlovsk. However they are opposite of each other in the same bay. The base on the south point of you map doesn’t exist.
Man, thus video made me remember my college thermodynamics for mech engineers, especially the thermodynamic tables.🤣👍
9:14 what is a "spinner"?
If I remember correctly, they're some kind of small thrusters for station-keeping and maybe manoeuvring in harbour without a tugboat.
@@A_Haunted_Pancake thank you!
British subs call it the “egg whisk”.
5:20 - "You see, Ivan...."
Is the lower left photo on the final slide what reactors in storage look like? Is that the whole reactor section of the sub sitting in storage or did they put the reactor into another tube shaped vessel?
When they decommission a submarine in Russia or the former Soviet Union they just cut the reactor compartment off and put it on stands and stilts and leave it there. And if there was a major accident like the k-19 then they usually dump it in the ocean or on a secluded island in the middle of nowhere.
What a crazy boat! There's always dud in every fleet.
Unbelievable! It's small wonder there weren't _more_ catastrophic reactor accidents in the USSR. Their attitude towards safety reflects how little operators and crew understood about the actual consequences of what they were doing, and the treatment of nuclear accidents as State secrets meant nobody could learn from previous mistakes. Add in people terrified they'll lose status and perks if they are honest about mistakes or stand up to superiors (see Toptunov and Dyatlov in the Chernobyl accident), and you have a recipe for disaster.
A classic case of poor crew training.
Have you done Kursk
This should be Krasheninnikova Bay near Petropavlovsk, not Krasheninnikov Bay in the Kuriles. Flew many a flight off Petropovolosk so know the area a bit.
Was Wassily Archipov on board ? I think because he experianced the deadliness of radioactivity here , he refused to shoot nuc torpedo in Cuba crise later .....
Where was the water from the primary loop going to cause a low level? I thought the primary loop of a reactor was supposed to be preserved as the same water
I am noticing a trend with these videos, if you served in the Soviet Submarine Navy during the cold war, the United States was the least of your worries. Being in the Soviet Sub Navy was the main threat to your life.
Love you Jive
It has been bothering me for a while now that you show a picture of the Kamchatka peninsula in this brief with two locations marked on it a couple hundred miles apart that are both actually located in the same 10 mile wide bay.
There is no visible naval base anywhere on the island marked as Krasheninnikov bay, where did you get this faulty information about being based there giving you a day's headstart.
Both Krasheninnikov and Petropavlovsky are about the same distance from the entrance to the bay they are in together.
Thank you for helping me get my classic History Channel fix 💉
Does the large missile hump cause noise issues?
not as much as everything else on that sub.
Judging by the catastrophic track record of the Soviet navy operating nuclear submarines, it is completely understandable why they implemented a great ammount of automation on them. I mean, conscripts with limited experience, formation and will just can do so much.
Sir, Your location for Krashennikov Bay is incorrect. It's located due south across Petropavlovsk bay - take a look?
I'd never heard of K-171 and I'm pretty interested in submarine warfare during the cold war.
Jesus christ. How did THREE people think it was okay to go into the reactor compartment while critical? And how did no one else back there, presumably nuclear qualified, stop them?
Kamchatka, the magical ship.
i feel like the champagne bottle just bounced off the hull of this one.
After listening to many of these Soviet sub briefs, one can only conclude the Soviet Union just should not have been operating nuclear submarines.
A truly cursed ship ...
Every time I think I've heard the worst thing the Soviet navy did...I seem to find something worse. Then again...it could be worse. that Echo boat where they *forgot to unhook the control rods from the reactor lid* before removing said lid to refuel the reactor comes to mind. As does the mess that is/was Andreev Bay.
EDIT: that said...the logic used in the first incident is absolutely amazing...and by logic I should say lack thereof. I mean I'm not even a sailor of any description and when I heard you say they wanted to turn the reactor on to boil the water off...um yeah, THAT can't go wrong.
Hi Jive. Thank. You for these videos. I've had a rough couple of days mentally but fallen into a deep hole watching your videos. It's so interesting.
I have so many question but you're probably sworn to secrecy on most. But how can I got hold of active sonar used in combat? Doesn't matter what period but I'd love to just analyse some myself. Would be great to get into it as a hobby
Thanks you for the distraction and entertainment
Sadly, those active sonar clips are rare. I don't know where to find unclassified active sonars other then scuba videos on youtube.
@@SubBrief thank you for the reply! Can't wait for more analyse videos and need to check out that game you play. Looks interesting! Have a nice day, sir
Hey jive quick question ....why did mordern subs get rid of the deck guns? ...also . why doesnt regular radar waves penetrate water? Why do we change from radar above the water .and sonar underwater ?
Not really needed. Deck guns were defensive in nature to keep the boat safe as it ran on the surface, the moment you get things like snorkels for diesel boats and reactors you can just stay under water permanently keeping you stealthy. Plus the guns acted as drag which slows the boat down.
@@rifleman2c997 the AA guns were defensive, the deck gun was not, that was for sinking merchants without wasting torpedoes as there were few of them. If surprised by an enemy warship on the surface the subs would dive and try to escape, with some rare exceptions.
@@eduardocharlier7560 Problem is Deck guns aren't really much use now a days with the ability to sink a merchant with a couple missiles from 60-120nm out, Less exposure to being counter detected.
@@rifleman2c997 I've often thought there might be a role for a cheaper submarine-launched missile or torpedo for use against low threat-level enemy ships. Small enough that more than one can go into each rack replacing a single heavy-weight torpedo.
@@rifleman2c997 oh yes, absolutely, the deck gun became obsolete as a concept by the end of WW2 with a greater emphasis on stealth and greater risk associated with being on the surface. For a nuclear boat it's really not even worth considering since you want to be submerged at all times near targets.
They practically transited the whole Atlantic ocean (north to south) and then transited the whole Pacific (south to north). Wouldn't be easier to just cut across the north pole?
They did that for nuclear intimidation reasons to show us that they could hit us on our entire West coast and East coast.
you still need to be using floatplane. if it works for jingles, im sure it'd work for you too.
No wikipedia article about this incident and the submarine itself.🤔
a bunch of water, huh? that's a lot...!
There are things you can do in life where cutting a corner or "fixing" something before it gets anyone in trouble is ok....
Then there are things you don't do that with, one of the things you can't f about with is anything to do with nuclear power, or submarines in general.
Can you recommend a good ASW book?
There’s one written by a former helo pilot called “I hate submarines”.
Kamchatka seems to have bad luck. For both binoculars and vessels.
Pavlovsky. Famous for their dogs and bells I’ve heard.
Imagine that post watch critique and fact finding for the decisions made to get to the point to where someone is entering the RC underway lol
Siberia must be pretty bad for them to choose radiation poisoning over a trip to the Gulag for failing a mission.
Unlike the U.S. Navy where nuclear operators are trained in reactor principles and nuclear physics as well as in their specialty such as electronics or mechanics the average Soviet submarine sailor was given only minimal training and that training was the same as sailors on conventional powered ships. Only the officers have any real training in nuclear power so the crew members taking these actions had very little or no knowledge of radiation, contamination, or how their actions would affect the reactor. This has to be remembered when reading any of these stories about events during the Cold War and for some time thereafter. The Russians are still far behind the U.S. in that regard as they still put secrecy above safety meaning they don't trust their own sailors enough to keep information about the reactors or supporting equipment to themselves. We saw that play out in the Kursk incident. While not a nuclear incident it still demonstrated the old Soviet mentality of putting secrecy above all else including the lives of the men operating their vessels. There are some inconsistencies in this story as well. "Feedwater" is a term associated with the secondary plant i.e. the steam generators and is not the source of water used in the reactor itself. The soviets employed the same type of two loop system as the U.S. and other navies. What appears to have happened is the loss of feed water to the steam generator caused the reactor to overheat at this is the heat sink for the heat generated by the reactor when in operation. Feed water contacting the outer casing of the reactor would cause steam, but there is normally several feet of clearance between the reactor vessel and the bilge so the steam would not have been generated until the water reached the bottom of the vessel. The steam could have cause a pressure buildup such that the reactor compartment door could not have been opened. The three sailors were probably steamed alive. A pretty horrible way to die. Their hair did not fall out because they either died from an acute dose meaning vital organs were killed before hair follicles or the more likely cause was the atmosphere. Dead people still have the hair they had when they were alive.
I wonder if they de-permed her when they moved her from Atlantic to Pacific
Salt water problem is due to chloride stress corrosion with Stainless Steel
kEEP TELLING STORIES,AWESOME
brit here. any stories of interactions with our boats and crews?
I caught the tail end of a Trafalgar class brief but it seems he removed it afterwards.
Okay as someone who actually knows the truth, the Soviet reactors were always enclosed in their own moderately shielding separate from the sub. The sub reactors were not constructed like the reactors on land or space. The three men were steamed to death by as much as 12 gallons of sea water. The photos from the incident are way too graphic but they do tell the hell of dying as they did.
I am interested in your comment.
Describe how "...Soviet reactors were always enclosed in their own moderately shielding separate from the sub." and how is that adding to the video?
I think you are honestly trying to say something important, but I don't understand your point.
What do you know about US and Soviet/Russian sub traffic in and out of the Bering Strait?
How come i think i have heard that story before? but it is not the russian boat. it was one of the first batch of ccp china nuclear boat. i wonder if it is the same design....
Imagine being the NATO sonarmen listening to K-171 in 1981, what would be going through their minds as they listen to the charlie foxtrot circus that patrol was?
I think it would be generous to assume, that the supply of Vodka was one of the few things that worked well back then.
Russian navy has to this day red wine onboard nuclear submarines.
Just another day in the Soviet navy.