Using Ableton as a Perfect Loop Pedal
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- Опубликовано: 4 авг 2024
- How I replace physical Loop Pedals with Ableton Live's Looper device.
If you or your band have wanted to loop things live with pre-programmed beats or backing tracks at specific BPM values and/or play to an in-ear click track, and you want everything to reliably loop in time at the exact right moments in songs & without stuff spinning out and drifting off the click, this is the way I like to do it.
I also cover some of what I think are logistical advantages and sonic possibilities with guitar FX and controlling the Looper using Automation in Ableton, that can go beyond what I think's possible with the typical method of having a real loop pedal and having to physically press it with your foot.
Whilst I'm focusing on looping with a guitar here, you can also use this exact method for basically any instrument you want; for example I often set up my USB Keyboard the same way, which enables me to quickly switch between guitar & keys in my live sets:
• Using Ableton as a Liv...
Something I also love about this is the fact that it's one less thing I need to physically carry with me to gigs, and one less thing that can break/randomly decide it wants to stop working one night for no discernible reason.
In the final part of the video, I go through a quick behind-the-scenes of my Ableton project & how the guitar looping performance works in the @CactuarCollective version of In Search of the Man in Black, from Final Fantasy VII:
• Final Fantasy VII - In...
00:00 - Intro
00:41 - Loop Pedal Problem #1
03:27 - How to MIDI-Sync a Loop Pedal
04:24 - Loop Pedal + MIDI Sync
05:01 - Loop Pedal Problem #2
07:13 - Solution: Using Ableton's Looper
09:21 - Advantage #1: Automating Looper for hands-free control
12:24 - Advantage #2: BPM-sync'd Delays & Time FX
13:37 - Advantage #3: BPM-sync'd Rhythmic Glitchies
15:51 - Full Contextual Example (FFVII Track Playthrough)
Instagram / Spotify / Bandcamp:
linktr.ee/joshtrinnamanaudio 
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I've been looking for something like this for a while, great video, liked and subscribed!
Awesome, really glad if it helps out :) cheers!
Josh, this was incredibly useful for me today. I’ve been looking at looping pedals and MIDI synchronization for some time, and this clarified things for me. Very concise, very well explained. Thank you!
Thanks a lot to made this video and share your knowledge !!
Cheers, hope it helps!
Very helpful thanks. A lot more in depth than some other tutorials i’ve been watching lately.
Thank you, happy to hear that - yeah I often watch tutorials where I come away without actually being taught how to do the thing I'd gone looking for, so wanted to try and be a bit more thorough with this channel 🤓
Super helpful video! Thanks!
My pleasure, happy looping times :)
I was looking for video like this for long time. Thanks
Happy to deliver, hope it helps you on your looping quest. Cheers!
That was dope! Awesome walkthrough (loved the funny transitions between sections!). In addition to the repeater I can see also a nice bitcrusher
Oh definitely. You could go nuts tbh, have loads of effects, basically create yourself a limitless and enormous digital 'pedalboard' of as many effects as you like. And then not even have to touch any of it.
Wow I just downloaded Ableton earlier today, fantastic video you got a follow from me! I had no idea about this, thanks for the dose of inspiration
that's dope to know, happy to hear that man 🙏
Really enjoyed this video and your song at the end dude. I’m just about to dive into Ableton for the first time this weekend.
hope your maiden ableton voyage went well! And i wish I could say its my tune, its actually a cover from FFVII written by Nobuo Uematsu but zhuzhed up by me 🤓
brilliant, thank you
Hope it helped something! Cheers :)
Super interesting! never thought of using ableton as looper like this. also: nice music u do there! thanks!
Thank you! give it a try sometime, it'll make you feel like a wizard
Great video. The other option is to have prerecorded tracks in Ableton, then just assign your pedals to start, stop, and next song.
Cheers! You could do that, but you'd have to manually hit the pedal, right? the whole idea is to not have to do that.
Also you'd have to sync the pedal(s) via USB or MIDI to be tight with Ableton's clock if you were doing this, that sounds like lots of MIDI/USB connections when you could just use 0 like this?
1 could this perhaps be due to ableton clips sticking to full bars while the pedals recording length is slightly longer or shorter?
i mean i have this happen a lot when i use recordings because i hit the space bar (stop rec) too late or too early in the clip for them to match.
its starting a 3 second clip and a 3.1 second clip lets say so as soon as it repeats the first one 0.1 secs before the other, they drift apart (cumulatively) by that amount each time the first one finishes?
Apologies if I'm missing something or I've misunderstood you, but this entire video is about how to avoid your loops drifting out of time and how to keep everything locked together 😁check out the section on Automating the Looper if you haven't already, that'll solve your issue pal :)
It sounds like you're trying to loop by recording directly into Clips in the Session View, instead of using the Looper? It is possible to use the Clips method but it takes some more setting up to avoid the issue you're having; the Looper device simplifies things a bit.
Thanks for this!!!
How would you go about recording different song sections using your setup?
Would you need different tracks and loopers for each section?
Also, would using Clyphx Pro or a binkbeat looper assist with different song parts/sections?
Thanks!
Planning to do a follow-up vid to cover some advanced tricks like that, but to quickly answer your question you basically just use more than 1 Looper insert! I have 2 max running, that seems to be enough for my needs, but you could in theory have as many as you like = infinite loop pedals.
Wouldn't recommend multiple tracks if using Neural DSP plugs for tones like I am, they are hungry bois on the CPU so ideally have as few of those running as possible / no duplicate tracks for guitar channel. I have seen people using a multiple tracks method for looping, but I've found it unnecessary; multiple Loopers on 1 track should do the trick.
If you have a look around 18:11 you can see I've got two loopers set up here, and basically when the first Looper stops the 2nd one kicks in shortly after; this lets me keep that 1st loop stored in the 1st Looper insert so I can turn it back on for later in the song, but I can use the 2nd Looper for playing other parts and not over-writing or layering what's in the 1st Looper, if that makes sense. I've said Looper too many times now
Hey, nice video! What type of guitar is that?
Cheers! it is a Fender Special Edition Custom Telecaster FMT HH, in Amber. It's a beast
How do you avoid latency? I always seem to have issues with input/ output processing delay making real time performance impossible. What drivers and settings do you use?
I'm on a Mac so I just use the standard CoreAudio driver - admittedly being able to do this does kind of require having a reasonably spec'd machine; I have 16GB RAM and an M1 chip in mine. But I used to do this on an older less powerful machine too without latency being a massive issue, just gotta be careful about how many plugins you put in a session or cleverly automate things to turn off when they're not in use, so they don't take up CPU load unecessarily.
On this I can get the buffer size very low (64 samples) without clicks and pops if I'm only running 1 plugin like one of the amp sims. But as I start adding more things like keys / synths plugins etc it can start to choke the system a bit, so I go up to 128samples buffer size in that case - I wouldnt go any higher than this, otherwise latency starts to interfere with playing.
Dyou get this issue regardless if its a blank / new session with nothing in it to cause latency, or are you trying to do it in a project thats already got stuff in?
Hey Josh, great video, I was looking for a solution to play my recorded songs live. I played with Ableton and the looper but never in that way. I was actually going to buy a RC 600, but now I'm reconsidering your method. Will definitely try it out!
The only thing I'm asking myself, what if you want let's say repeat a part of a song. Let's say in the end of the song you play the chorus a few more times or another part of the song. How would you add a kind of "improvised" moment? Maybe by grouping certain tracks and let them play solo when hitting a midi controller?
Thank you!
Oh yeah you can totally do that - there's a lot of flexibility its pretty tough to describe it all here. Might do a vid on it actually, if that'd help. But some ideas:
It's possible to create markers/Locators anywhere on the timeline in Arrangement View and call them 'Verse 1', 'Chorus 1' and so on, then map those locators or the different song sections to different buttons on a midi controller. Then you can jump around different parts of a song (or your full set) at will by pressing your assigned buttons.
Or can assign "Previous / Next Locator" buttons to scroll through your markers in order. Gives a bit less control than the previous way, but depending on how things are set up on the timeline in Arrangement View, it can be easier and simplified to just hit 'Next Locator'; saves on the amount of buttons or assignments you'd need to remember or map.
Can also set up the timeline to start looping once it reaches a certain point in a song. So you can play a song with a specific structure up to a certain point, and then have it go into a solo or jam section without a pre-determined length for live improv. Then set up a button to control when it moves on to your Outro marker or to finish the solo section.
@@joshtrinnaman wow that's amazing!! thank you for taking time and sharing these tricks! can't wait to check these ideas out! Just have to get a foot controller and midi interface :)
Hey Josh thanks for making this tutorial. I was actually able to make my first loop in Ableton but I'm stuck on how to export a live looping session? Do I just create a new audio track and change the audio in to "master". Then arm the track and start recording or do I create an audio track, input = Resampling, record to that group the full master output? Will it pick up everything that I start playing from the start and in the order that I do it? Kinda new at looping in Ableton, any help is appreciated.
I think i get you - are you trying to export the whole loop session/arrangement as a .wav to listen to, but it's stuck 'in the Looper' if that makes sense?
I'd say the first thing you mentioned is the thing to do, so
1- if you're not already, use Arrangement View
2 - create a new audio track, I usually call it 'Loop Rec' or something
3- set 'Audio From' of that Loop Rec track to 'Master', set monitoring to Off so you don't hear it twice
4- Hit the big Record button at the top of the screen
5- now when you start playing and looping, everything coming out of the track or group you've set in 'Audio From' should get recorded to an audio file on your Loop Rec track.
You can then export it like you would a normal session, or you can just right-click on that audio file and hit 'show in finder'to get the file that way
Thanks man, that did it. @@joshtrinnaman
Sick, very happy to hear that @@miniwinston6712!
Dude thanks for the info, I will now be re-selling my loop pedal because of this!
And fuck yea, Final Fantasy!!!
Ha nice! Glad this apparently sparked an idea there :)
And greetings to a fellow Party member! This guy are sick. Let's mosey, etc ☄
brilliant!! One question, do you use the mano kontrol 2 with Mac OS Ventura or later?
I'm on OS12, guessing you're thinking about compatibility? As far as I can see Korg doesnt officially support the Nanokontrol past OS13 yet, but I'd be surprised if it didn't work
@@joshtrinnaman Thanks for answering! Yes exact! I don't need the editor or Bluetooth just to be able to assign ableton mapping. 🥹
@@frankvillalta2022 Yeah it should work normally for that purpose! I don't use the Korg Editor app here either, so there's no need for that thing
Good idea. I have the ditto looper X4 too and I do not use it. My use case is to play live loops in a Jazz Trio (g, b, dr) and lay down backing cords as a foundation for improvisation. Therefore I need a percussion/click stereo out for the drummer and a stereo out for the guitar loops. Do you have any experience with ableton in this kind of a scenario?
Depends on your interface outputs. If you've just got Left+Right. Send a mono click to your drummer, (with a splitter cable if you want it as well) and a mono out to the desk/PA. If you've got more, you can do the same thing in stereo. Just set the appropriate outputs on 'master' and 'cue'.
Thank you! Yes, that's exactly what this method is about enabling; keeping everything tight to a metronome that a band can all share, & so loops don't drift off the click.
I would recommend an interface with at least 4 outputs; use 1-2 for your guitar loops to FOH, and then route the clicks & also a feed of your guitar loops for in-ear monitoring out of outputs 3-4.
I personally use a Focusrite Scarlett 4i4 for this but I'd warn I often find myself wishing I had an interface with more than 4 outputs on it.
^ What this guy said. @@adamznaidi
I use the boss RC300 and have no issues with it, but I have to sync Live to the loop station instead of the other way around like you're doing.
And why use the looper when you can make loops directly into the clips?
I feel like most people using Live for production and making beats wouldn’t want to sync Live to a loop pedal or have a pedal be the master clock, I think. I want to route click tracks out of Ableton to other band members and having tempo/BPM determined by a pedal would not be ideal in my sort of live setup.
And the reason for looper is because you can control it hands free with automation easily. If you record into Clip Slots, you’d have to hit Record manually each time, or set up some MIDI triggers with the IAC driver to tell Live which clip to record into, which is an option - but that’s a bit more fiddly and convoluted to set up than doing it with Looper.
One thing I never see addressed is mistake handling. If you screw up the first 4 bars, can you just hit a button and it will go back to the beginning of that loop? Would need to be an 'undo' for each segment.
Really good point; yep, you can do that! There's a few things you could do.
#1 - assign the looper's Undo or Clear button to some sort of MIDI controller like my Korg thing. Tho this'd be easier to control with a foot controller like a Behringer FCB1010 so you don't need to take your hands away from the guitar.
#2 Control the Playhead and get it to jump around to specific points on the Timeline using Locators/Markers - assigning Locators to controls on your MIDI controller basically means you could make the song go back or to wherever you want, I.e. if I messed up my first loop in my ending example at about 17:14 , I could easily tell it to go back and start the build-up intro section going into my Looping bit to give myself a 2nd chance at it
#3 Set the Looper to start recording on your 2nd pass of a riff, as by that point your fingers have probably warmed up and muscle memory has fully kicked in.
For me though I feel more relaxed and comfortable doing it this way, and that seems to have a positive effect on being able to nail things first time and minimises the potential for mistakes or things going wrong. I can basically just focus on playing guitar to click without having to worry about anything else :D
I've drawn my automation in to record play back then stop but it doesn't stop! It keeps playing and overwrites the stop automation. Anybody help solve this issue?
Hey there, I think it might have something to do with the buttons at the top of the screen in Ableton. Next to the Transport controls at the top of the screen, there's a button that looks like an arrow pointing left < called 'Re-Enable Automation' - this button should be greyed out all the time, and if it's turning Orange and letting you press it, then it means something somewhere in your session is overriding that automation.
It could be something in the Session view, or you could also have the + button 'MIDI Arrangement Overdub' enabled; try experimenting turning those various buttons at the top of the screen on and off. Hope that helps!
Thanks for the reply, The re-enable automation button is coming on during the playback stage but unless I physically turn it off it playback continues! Not sur what else to try I don't have anything going on in session view@@joshtrinnaman
@@TheJalba66 That's happened to me before too, d'you have any MIDI controllers connected? It could be because of MIDI feedback loop in Ableton Prefs:
help.ableton.com/hc/en-us/articles/209069409-Re-enable-Automation-keeps-lighting-up
ruclips.net/video/E_Gtx7KepZM/видео.html
Thanks for the help. Trying everything but no joy. It'll be something simple but very frustrating@@joshtrinnaman
@@TheJalba66 Sorry to hear this didn't work for you, I reckon it's gotta be some tiny but easily-overlookable setting somewhere like you say. I'll look into it a bit more when I can
I have the same issue with my ditto x4 😢
Shitto x4. Not sure if I mentioned but mine's been serviced twice under warranty. Given i've never taken it out of my place or been rough with it at gigs (it's just sat quietly on my board at home for its whole life) I'm not sure why it's so buggy.
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