@@PalleRasmussenhey mat. Hope I'm first on this but I somehow doubt you'd agree with this chap. ruclips.net/user/shortsN5PgP017Pr8?si=J_rSYonO-wQV-DoY
Has ‘Anyone’ considered perhaps teaming up with LK Chen (!) to produce an actual, historically, accurate reproduction of the Ottoman kılıç; or indeed this shorter version (pala)…?! 🤔🙂
In the Early Middle Ages, the Turkic people of Central Asia came into contact with Middle Eastern civilizations through their shared Islamic faith. Turkic Ghilman slave-soldiers serving under the Umayyad and Abbasid Caliphates introduced kilij-type sabers to all of the other Middle Eastern cultures. Previously, Arabs and Persians used straight-bladed swords such as the earlier types of the Arab saif, takoba and kaskara. Source- Khorasani, Manouchehr, "Arms and Armour from Iran"
True except that the Turkic people were not Islamic until after they came in contact with the Middle Easterns, so they didn't have a shared religion when they first came in contact.
Great video! Though starting at 12:14 I'd like to clarify two things: Hussars weren't quite a light cavalry, at least in their early years. And also Hussars' overall looks and their uniform (especially those huge wings and the helmets) were modeled on/influenced after the Ottoman Army Unit called "Deliler" (The Mads/Crazies), their most characteristic feature were the huge wings they wore. And even though the Hussars didn't copy this (I can see why), Deliler had knives, daggers and swords passing through their flesh on various parts of their body as an intimidation tactic (ranging from their foreheads to the chest area to the arms and so on) I highly recommend people to check out the Ottoman miniatures and also the German manuscripts depicting them. One time I got high looking at em, they are that psycho 😭🙏🏻
I'm pretty sure he means a different formation. He doesn't mean Polish hussars, which is indeed a heavy unit, but (just) hussar(s?) - in Polish that's spelled huzarzy - and this is a light formation. They originated in Hungary, I think. And both units operated on the territories of Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth.
Oh what a smashing sabre to show off Matt. Thanks so much for going over it, and as an excuse to talk about Kilij history and interaction with the west! A fun anecdote for everyone: a big turning point for sabre history in Europe (especially western Europe) is the reformation of Poland's military forces and the formation of the Hussar units in the mid 16th century. King Stephen Báthory (originally from Hungary) who brought about this change had several swords, and one of the surviving swords attributed to him is a beautiful huge kilij of Mamluk manufacture (likely from Egypt). In some ways you could say that the Ur Szabla batorówka seems to have Kilij dna ;-)
I keep wondering why it took so long for Europeans to adopt sabers-particularly people in Central Europe. I have a few theories but I would love to hear your thoughts on that. The constant contact with nomadic tribes like Bulgarians, Avars, Hungarians, Cumans, and later Mongols/Tatars seems to have had little to no effect for centuries. Sure, Eastern Slavs did adopt sabers but somehow Poles and Hungarians preferred straight European swords all the way up to the XV century and then suddenly decided "We love sabers! It's our national weapon now".
@@lolasdm6959 True for the most part but that doesn't explain why sabers started to popularise in the time plate armour was becoming more and more common.
@@Velesus101the saber became popularised right after full plate became irrelevant for anyone except heavy cavalry, the direct ancestor of the Western/Central European saber is the Falchion/messer
@@PalleRasmussen @ 6:12 lmao ik it's curved swords but I said bent cause Matt said European sources at the time referred to them as bent swords in the video 😂
"Ah, but this long straight blade is *much* better against armor." "I can't help but notice you aren't wearing a lot of armor right now, effendi?" "Well of course not, we have rifles now and so do they."
Very cool sword. The one with the 1796 hilt, as you said, is particularly attractive. There is not only the aesthetic of that particular curve but, just by the look of it, I think it could be a very nice weapon to use. Thanks. Cheers!
Thank you Matt! Not sure it's the right niche but if anyone's obsessed with Renaissance and Ottoman warfare and the Turkish frontier I strongly recommend Schwerpunkt's relative playlist. I'd love to see a coop. Keep up with the amazing work
That characteristic 'bent' shape on the kilijes I have always understood was referred to as the 'lion's tail'. Presumably because it looks - well - like a lion's tail. Almost certainly designed to impart a natural draw-cut without the necessity to alter the grip position or angle of attack etc. I'm sure I've seen (without rifling through my books) shamshirs with yelmens before (???)
Let's not forget the hussar hair braids, worn so elegantly by Harvey Keitel in The Duelists. I'm pretty certain they will make a comeback in the near future.
This is fascinating stuff. If anyone tried to write a book purely on the development of the engineering that went into swords, metallurgy, blade design, and such from the ancient development of the sword itself, it would have to be multi volume and probably an entire life's work...and still incomplete...
I second that motion in a similar manner as the Royal Armouries line with proper distal taper, etc, like the Windlass 1796. A very good idea. As far as I know there are very few replicas available that actually behave like swords. Good idea.
@@peterchristiansen9695 Certainly something to consider. I have heard of QC control probs with the Windlass 1796 LC. I would like to learn more about the QC issues and inconsistency with Windlass QC. I wounder how consistent QC is with the other replicas Windlass is making for Matt? I think you raise a very good point ... except that LK uses those ugly cast stainless furnishings. Anyway ...
@@kaoskronostyche9939 I hear you! However; LK Chen has lately upped the quality of those stainless-steel cast hilts (like a better, satin polish). Even if these cannot really be ‘blued’, for example - unlike more conventional, “old-school” steel sword-hilts.
What sorts of straight sowrds were in use by the armies of the Middle East and North Africa by the Late Middle Ages? Maybe a video about that matter would be nice.
Interesting dot connection…. Kilich or Kilick is the name of Jack Aubrey’s insolent cook on HMS Surprise in the Patrick O’Brian Aubrey Maturin series. PS I’d love to see the scabbard for this example.
Great video Matt, I really enjoyed it. However I am going to pick up on pronunciation; kilic is the Turkish word for sword and it’s commonly used for Ottoman (and Mamluk) style swords, however in modern Turkish the letter C is pronounced in a similar way to the English letter J. So kilij, with a J on the end, is a more accurate pronunciation.
That's why the word is written as kılıç and not as kılıc or kilic :) Matt pronounced it kinda accurately tbh, he pronounced it as "kilich" rathan than the incorrect "kilij", and the letter ç in Turkish makes the ch sound in english. (Though of course it would have been better if he didn't pronounce the letter ı as if it was the letter i) And yes the letter c in Turkish makes the j sound in english but the word kılıç contains no c in it 😸
It depends on the thickness. For thinner swords, allows a cleaner cut (especially for inexperienced soldiers, a type of autocorrect when passing through a target). For thicker blades, the flare adds extra weight for punching power (particularly when used on horseback).. not an expert but in either case it has value. The downside is that extra tip-weight reduces maneuverability, but that matters less from horseback because of the pass-through style of clash.
I reckon there's a lot to be said in general about how Europe was influenced by the cultures it encountered from the 15th C onwards before that interaction led to the collapse of most of those societies and admiration turned to contempt.
All those pieces are beautiful and seeing all the cross cultural influences in them is absolutely fascinating….and fun it must be said! It really adds a lot of humanity to them.
You should look at the US Marine Corps officers sword ( we call it the mamaluke), we were told the Marine officers were given it as a gift for defeating the Barbary pirates. Curious if there’s any historical accuracy to the sword or if we Americanized/hill billied it
The Mamlukes were Turkic slave soldiers that rebelled and took over Egypt, founding their own Dynasty. They ruled Egypt for a very long time and eventually became part of the Ottoman empire. The Barbary corsairs were part of the Ottoman navy. They had the same function as British and Dutch "privateers" (pirates) that would raid Spanish ships for the British. Fun fact, after the Brits and Spanish made peace. A lot of Dutch and British privateers joined the Barbary corsairs. Some of them became very successful and famous pirate captains and even governors of entire towns and provinces. (Jan Janszoon, Dirkie de Veenboer etc)
Remember going to the Bedford arms fair for first time about 1980 and seeing a mameluke 'scimitar', still one of my favorites, BTW how about a video on early Arab or Eastern swords, so pre Islamic going forward.
one of the mentors in my HEMA club stated that dussacks are essentially looted/war trophy Ottoman blades that got fitted with Western European handguards. How true is his statement? I've been googling to look for the source and verify the claim and I've found few confirming answers to this
Not the focus of the video, but there is one thing that sounds strange to me. I know of Hun, Avar, Mongol and similar influences that came earlier than the Ottomans. And we see some of those weapon influences being adapted in the Eastern Roman Empire, so we know people adopted the sabre quite early on. I also agree that when it comes to weapons (and a lot of other things) in the Balkans, the Romanian principate, and late (so 1500) Hungary, we see the Ottoman influence (so not the Turkish as the general group of people, but the empire in particular). But can influences in Poland be attributed to the Ottomans? Do they see it as such, or do they credit the Karabela and the like to the earlier influences (Avars, Mongols, Tartars, etc.)?
A lot of if not most ceremonial swords today are still curved. Kriegsmesser swords also had a similar inspiration and are some of the best looking ones.
Whilst handling antiques? He's explained before that after handling his swords in videos, he makes very sure to clean them of any oils, as to prevent further damage to the antiques, or new rust and such on his reproductions, iirc.
@@Griff1011 my point was that you misunderstood the question. Why did malamuke style sabers lack knuckle guards? We know he cleans them, that was never the question
I never thought I'd see the day when someone would manage to talk about the influence of Ottoman weapons on Europe and talk so little about Hungarian and Polish-Lithuanian weapons (which were adapted to Ottoman counterparts about 300 years earlier than in Western Europe). Understandable, there is little literature on this in Western Europe - but then you shouldn't approach the subject in this way and pull out an M1796. What a pity!
It's of course a matter of personal tastes but I don't much like the aestethics of extremely curved swords, even though the shape probably has it's practical advantages. I prefer the look of fairly straight blades, something like a katana or a typical cavalry saber is ok but too much curve and especially an "elbow" in the blade just does not please my eyes.
We are and we were and will continue to be Central Europe and Central Europeans, thank you very much! Cheers! - end of public service anouncement by your local Imperial Respresentative. +][+
Lighter, more cut capasity. Curved blades are luxury for Turkish horse archers after Bozdoğan. Bozdoğan was the wooden or iron mace for poor soldiers. A simple stick.
Huns are no Hungarians, it is just the name. Also, the Huns had straight swords, not sabres, so they don't really have their place here. You surely meant Avars, the later ones, who were the first to have sabres in Central Europe (end of the 7th, 8th centuries).
Hussars originated in the Balkans, and were light cavalry. The term literally means something like pirate/brigand in south Slavic. So calm your fucking pierogis.
He was specifficly talking about polish lancers and eastern European huzars, he was also talking about lithuania wich was part of polish crown. I know word huzzar means something difrrent in west but in this specific context i was under impression he was talking about winged ones.
That sword is not pala, there are two types of pala sword, in montenegro and boka kotorska there is yatagan like sword but with straight blade and no ears, it is caled pala. And ottoman pala is broader blade allmost straight with slight curvature, crossguard is turned up to the blade and usualy has a karabela style bird like handle. Look books: fejsil curcic, oruzje u hrvata, and similar for those pictures. It is wrong and it spread thru europe and world that kilij is pala, it is not! That is a foot soliders kilij from 19. century. That is not pala and it is wrong to call it a pala, then we can call rapier a saber, or palasch a saber.
@@morriganmhor5078I think this was partly the point of the video, that cross-inspiration has always been a large factor in sword design. Same could be said of language, religion, and cuisine.
"Huszár" means every twenthieth guy that can fight in Hungary. They were instituted in the 15th century, mainly against the Ottoman threat. There was no Austro-Hungarian Empire untill 1861, way after the Napoleonic wars. There was a Hungarian kingdom, an Austrian Archiduchy and a Holy Roman Empire, all in the powers of a same fanily since the 16th century: the Habsburgs.
Here's why they're called "Frocking Swords" according to the Navy. In the US Military (so take that into account) "Frock Swords" are ceremonial, and only given/worn for "Frocking Ceremonies" aka "Ranking Ceremonies" where officers over a certain rank, attaining promotion, can _optionally_ also be presented with a sword, which they can also wear with their High Dress Uniforms (the ones worn to black-tie events and meeting World Leaders etc.) To my knowledge, these were never meant to be capable of combat, usually being ornate, dull, overly delicate (needing to be super light to be worn all night by very old men throughout hours-long events they may have had to stand through), and overly ornate (we like eagles and laurels in the US Military). They were meant to be pretty, and to be mounted/shadow-boxed and hung on a wall with a placard after/between uses (some folk liked to have a newer, more ornate one for each qualifying rank earned, displaying them like a ladder). The word "Frock" is an archaic term for "dressing" and was typically reserved for Clergy donning Ceremonial Vestments... er... _ceremonially._ Such as being draped in a special vestment during a special Mass by either assistants or a superior ranked clergyman as part of the ceremony. This included ceremonies in which their rank was raised, but wasn't exclusive to that use. This later came to be used in general to mean "don ceremonially", and was adopted by the military for the pinning-on of medals of rank or achievement in a ceremony, and was expanded to include the presentation of any symbol of rank or office, thus attaining that rank or office. It became so synonymous that we even call the "butterfly clasp" for holding pins on a "frog" in the military, a humorous corruption of the word "Frock" owing, so it is said, to the way the clasp looks like a little frog at some angles. (place it on a table, flat side down, then look at it edge on) Frocking swords were _usually_ in the same style as issued weapons, but that was not a requirement until much later. Now, in the US, it _MUST_ be of the specific sort and specs worn by the specific branch of the military (US Navy is a straight-bladed Cutlass, *Marines is a Mamluk* and the oldest continually used weapon in the US Military, and the Army and Air Force (formerly US Army: Air Corps) use the Model 1902 Army Officers' [Cavalry] Saber)
Here's why they're called "Frocking Swords" according to the Navy. In the US Military (so take that into account) "Frock Swords" are ceremonial, and only given/worn for "Frocking Ceremonies" aka "Ranking Ceremonies" where officers over a certain rank, attaining promotion, can _optionally_ also be presented with a sword, which they can also wear with their High Dress Uniforms (the ones worn to black-tie events and meeting World Leaders etc.) To my knowledge, these were never meant to be capable of combat, usually being ornate, dull, overly delicate (needing to be super light to be worn all night by very old men throughout hours-long events they may have had to stand through), and overly ornate (we like eagles and laurels in the US Military). They were meant to be pretty, and to be mounted/shadow-boxed and hung on a wall with a placard after/between uses (some folk liked to have a newer, more ornate one for each qualifying rank earned, displaying them like a ladder). The word "Frock" is an archaic term for "dressing" and was typically reserved for Clergy donning Ceremonial Vestments... er... _ceremonially._ Such as being draped in a special vestment during a special Mass by either assistants or a superior ranked clergyman as part of the ceremony. This included ceremonies in which their rank was raised, but wasn't exclusive to that use. This later came to be used in general to mean "don ceremonially", and was adopted by the military for the pinning-on of medals of rank or achievement in a ceremony, and was expanded to include the presentation of any symbol of rank or office, thus attaining that rank or office. It became so synonymous that we even call the "butterfly clasp" for holding pins on a "frog" in the military, a humorous corruption of the word "Frock" owing, so it is said, to the way the clasp looks like a little frog at some angles. (place it on a table, flat side down, then look at it edge on) Frocking swords were _usually_ in the same style as issued weapons, but that was not a requirement until much later. Now, in the US, it _MUST_ be of the specific sort and specs worn by the specific branch of the military (US Navy is a straight-bladed Cutlass, *Marines is a Mamluk* and the oldest continually used weapon in the US Military, and the Army and Air Force (formerly US Army: Air Corps) use the Model 1902 Army Officers' [Cavalry] Saber)
@@imperfectlump6070 surely the oldest _military_ weapon. it's a mainstay of every pre-industrial military in recorded history, that's for sure. we don't know what the oldest weapon 'period' is, for sure, though, as it's in pre-history, and it depends on your definition. could be that it's a Stick, or Rock. "any object used to kill a target not attached to the body". OR could be a knife/club "the first object made by human hands specifically to kill" OR could be the sling or spear "The first object made by human hands to kill that doesn't serve another purpose" (knives/clubs are tools, too) it's a fascinating topic! ☺🪖
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You look particularly dapper today Matt. Anything up?
@@PalleRasmussenhey mat. Hope I'm first on this but I somehow doubt you'd agree with this chap. ruclips.net/user/shortsN5PgP017Pr8?si=J_rSYonO-wQV-DoY
Has ‘Anyone’ considered perhaps teaming up with LK Chen (!) to produce an actual, historically, accurate reproduction of the Ottoman kılıç; or indeed this shorter version (pala)…?! 🤔🙂
@@peterchristiansen9695 if they are in the PRC, I would rather not have anything to do with them at all.
@@PalleRasmussen I don’t think the political situation on the Indian subcontinent is that much better tbh… 🫤
In the Early Middle Ages, the Turkic people of Central Asia came into contact with Middle Eastern civilizations through their shared Islamic faith. Turkic Ghilman slave-soldiers serving under the Umayyad and Abbasid Caliphates introduced kilij-type sabers to all of the other Middle Eastern cultures. Previously, Arabs and Persians used straight-bladed swords such as the earlier types of the Arab saif, takoba and kaskara. Source- Khorasani, Manouchehr, "Arms and Armour from Iran"
True except that the Turkic people were not Islamic until after they came in contact with the Middle Easterns, so they didn't have a shared religion when they first came in contact.
the kaskara and takoba go back that early? ive never been able to find any extant examples older than 18th century
Even in the 12th in Middle Asia, there were non-muslim Turkic and Turko-Mongol tribes using yuan-type sabres (see at LK Chen).
He means straight swords similar to those types. I think the takobas pommel is very different than those earlier types of sword though.
@@jefekeefsosa4998 From what I saw, Sassanian straight swords were more Like a backsword, kaskara Are symmetrical
Great video! Though starting at 12:14 I'd like to clarify two things:
Hussars weren't quite a light cavalry, at least in their early years. And also Hussars' overall looks and their uniform (especially those huge wings and the helmets) were modeled on/influenced after the Ottoman Army Unit called "Deliler" (The Mads/Crazies), their most characteristic feature were the huge wings they wore. And even though the Hussars didn't copy this (I can see why), Deliler had knives, daggers and swords passing through their flesh on various parts of their body as an intimidation tactic (ranging from their foreheads to the chest area to the arms and so on) I highly recommend people to check out the Ottoman miniatures and also the German manuscripts depicting them. One time I got high looking at em, they are that psycho 😭🙏🏻
I'm pretty sure he means a different formation. He doesn't mean Polish hussars, which is indeed a heavy unit, but (just) hussar(s?) - in Polish that's spelled huzarzy - and this is a light formation. They originated in Hungary, I think. And both units operated on the territories of Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth.
They have different wikipedia entries if you want to read about them more - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hussar and en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_hussars
Love me a good Kilij. It's such a cool looking and feeling sword.
Just need to film a quick video before we head off to dinner, Lucy.
Oh what a smashing sabre to show off Matt. Thanks so much for going over it, and as an excuse to talk about Kilij history and interaction with the west!
A fun anecdote for everyone: a big turning point for sabre history in Europe (especially western Europe) is the reformation of Poland's military forces and the formation of the Hussar units in the mid 16th century. King Stephen Báthory (originally from Hungary) who brought about this change had several swords, and one of the surviving swords attributed to him is a beautiful huge kilij of Mamluk manufacture (likely from Egypt). In some ways you could say that the Ur Szabla batorówka seems to have Kilij dna ;-)
Was king Bathory related to Countess Bathory?? Big fan, even named my black cat after her 😂. Partially cause of the band though to be honest
@@EuTrabalhoParaSagres510 Elizabeth Báthory was His niece.
I keep wondering why it took so long for Europeans to adopt sabers-particularly people in Central Europe. I have a few theories but I would love to hear your thoughts on that. The constant contact with nomadic tribes like Bulgarians, Avars, Hungarians, Cumans, and later Mongols/Tatars seems to have had little to no effect for centuries. Sure, Eastern Slavs did adopt sabers but somehow Poles and Hungarians preferred straight European swords all the way up to the XV century and then suddenly decided "We love sabers! It's our national weapon now".
Straight swords are better against armoured opponents curved better for unarmored
@@lolasdm6959 True for the most part but that doesn't explain why sabers started to popularise in the time plate armour was becoming more and more common.
@@Velesus101 I'd guess because swords didn't matter as much against the armor?
Or just style reasons. Never discount trends and fads.
@@Velesus101the saber became popularised right after full plate became irrelevant for anyone except heavy cavalry, the direct ancestor of the Western/Central European saber is the Falchion/messer
@@bencoomer2000 Your right. But I cannot shake a mental image of a sales rep like Edna Mode "Its all the rage in the east."
They've got BENT SWORDS. BENT SWORDS.
Curved, you best go back and refresh your memory with 100+ hours of modded gaming. Have fun 😀
@@PalleRasmussen @ 6:12 lmao ik it's curved swords but I said bent cause Matt said European sources at the time referred to them as bent swords in the video 😂
@@Jim58223 ah, my bad.
You should still go play some Skyrim 😉
Somebody had to say it… 😁👍🏻
If your sword has a bend that's not natural to you see your doctor.
Swords and food bring people together so well. No matter what every culture had a "that looks cool" or "that taste good" moment somewhere.
"Ah, but this long straight blade is *much* better against armor."
"I can't help but notice you aren't wearing a lot of armor right now, effendi?"
"Well of course not, we have rifles now and so do they."
Very cool sword. The one with the 1796 hilt, as you said, is particularly attractive. There is not only the aesthetic of that particular curve but, just by the look of it, I think it could be a very nice weapon to use. Thanks. Cheers!
Thank you Matt! Not sure it's the right niche but if anyone's obsessed with Renaissance and Ottoman warfare and the Turkish frontier I strongly recommend Schwerpunkt's relative playlist. I'd love to see a coop. Keep up with the amazing work
That characteristic 'bent' shape on the kilijes I have always understood was referred to as the 'lion's tail'. Presumably because it looks - well - like a lion's tail. Almost certainly designed to impart a natural draw-cut without the necessity to alter the grip position or angle of attack etc. I'm sure I've seen (without rifling through my books) shamshirs with yelmens before (???)
Matt getting all dressed up to talk about Turkish swords...
These more formal videos are great.
Let's not forget the hussar hair braids, worn so elegantly by Harvey Keitel in The Duelists. I'm pretty certain they will make a comeback in the near future.
This is fascinating stuff. If anyone tried to write a book purely on the development of the engineering that went into swords, metallurgy, blade design, and such from the ancient development of the sword itself, it would have to be multi volume and probably an entire life's work...and still incomplete...
The bent Pala/Kilij is my favorite Middle Eastern sword design.
Matt, if you could collaborate with Windlass on a kilij, it would just be the "icing on the cake"! Please, sir!🙏🏻😁
I second that motion in a similar manner as the Royal Armouries line with proper distal taper, etc, like the Windlass 1796. A very good idea. As far as I know there are very few replicas available that actually behave like swords. Good idea.
Agreed! Would buy
👍🏻 But; Let’s try LK Chen, shall We (that is; if We want it to actually be good (!))? 😉
@@peterchristiansen9695 Certainly something to consider. I have heard of QC control probs with the Windlass 1796 LC. I would like to learn more about the QC issues and inconsistency with Windlass QC.
I wounder how consistent QC is with the other replicas Windlass is making for Matt?
I think you raise a very good point ... except that LK uses those ugly cast stainless furnishings.
Anyway ...
@@kaoskronostyche9939 I hear you! However; LK Chen has lately upped the quality of those stainless-steel cast hilts (like a better, satin polish). Even if these cannot really be ‘blued’, for example - unlike more conventional, “old-school” steel sword-hilts.
What sorts of straight sowrds were in use by the armies of the Middle East and North Africa by the Late Middle Ages? Maybe a video about that matter would be nice.
Lovely. And I know how excited you were to find it! Did they ever have thumb rings in this era?
Very interesting indeed. Thanks for sharing.
In real life people look at the folks next door and say, "Wow, that's cool. We should do something like that."
This is true
It's a boomerang in sword form.
Maybe even, swords in boomerang form!
Always thought the kılıç looked more like an arm.
Every day I live in fear that even though he has been Matt Easton, he might not continue to be next time
12:13 I hear they arrived.
Turk here from 30th second of the upload.
ofc i am here 😂
Interesting dot connection…. Kilich or Kilick is the name of Jack Aubrey’s insolent cook on HMS Surprise in the Patrick O’Brian Aubrey Maturin series.
PS I’d love to see the scabbard for this example.
Great video Matt, I really enjoyed it. However I am going to pick up on pronunciation; kilic is the Turkish word for sword and it’s commonly used for Ottoman (and Mamluk) style swords, however in modern Turkish the letter C is pronounced in a similar way to the English letter J. So kilij, with a J on the end, is a more accurate pronunciation.
That's why the word is written as kılıç and not as kılıc or kilic :)
Matt pronounced it kinda accurately tbh, he pronounced it as "kilich" rathan than the incorrect "kilij", and the letter ç in Turkish makes the ch sound in english. (Though of course it would have been better if he didn't pronounce the letter ı as if it was the letter i)
And yes the letter c in Turkish makes the j sound in english but the word kılıç contains no c in it 😸
What papers you recommand for ottoman influence on western Fashion?
Please work with Windlass to get an awesome repro Kilij/Pala! Specifically a short Pala with like a 66 cm blade
@scholagladiatoria we call machete a "pala" in Turkish and sword is "kilic"
So what does the flared false edge do?
It depends on the thickness. For thinner swords, allows a cleaner cut (especially for inexperienced soldiers, a type of autocorrect when passing through a target). For thicker blades, the flare adds extra weight for punching power (particularly when used on horseback).. not an expert but in either case it has value. The downside is that extra tip-weight reduces maneuverability, but that matters less from horseback because of the pass-through style of clash.
Can you suggest a book focused on the construction of swords from the high middle ages?
Not only UV light...
Thanks for the video 👍🏻
Didnt Dracula (Vlad the impaler not the vampire) had a Ottoman style sword ?
Quite probably
That whole sword is pretty. Looks pretty quick in the hand too.
I reckon there's a lot to be said in general about how Europe was influenced by the cultures it encountered from the 15th C onwards before that interaction led to the collapse of most of those societies and admiration turned to contempt.
All those pieces are beautiful and seeing all the cross cultural influences in them is absolutely fascinating….and fun it must be said! It really adds a lot of humanity to them.
You didn't need to dress up for us Matt!
What sort of swords where being use in Scandinavia during the 16 and 17 centuries
Rapiers and basket-hilted broadswords/backswords, and some dussacks
You should look at the US Marine Corps officers sword ( we call it the mamaluke), we were told the Marine officers were given it as a gift for defeating the Barbary pirates. Curious if there’s any historical accuracy to the sword or if we Americanized/hill billied it
The Mamlukes were Turkic slave soldiers that rebelled and took over Egypt, founding their own Dynasty. They ruled Egypt for a very long time and eventually became part of the Ottoman empire. The Barbary corsairs were part of the Ottoman navy. They had the same function as British and Dutch "privateers" (pirates) that would raid Spanish ships for the British. Fun fact, after the Brits and Spanish made peace. A lot of Dutch and British privateers joined the Barbary corsairs. Some of them became very successful and famous pirate captains and even governors of entire towns and provinces. (Jan Janszoon, Dirkie de Veenboer etc)
THANK YOU for covering this topic! It's sometrhing I've been wondering about for a long time. I love curved swords of all provenances.
Remember going to the Bedford arms fair for first time about 1980 and seeing a mameluke 'scimitar',
still one of my favorites, BTW how about a video on early Arab or Eastern swords, so pre
Islamic going forward.
one of the mentors in my HEMA club stated that dussacks are essentially looted/war trophy Ottoman blades that got fitted with Western European handguards. How true is his statement? I've been googling to look for the source and verify the claim and I've found few confirming answers to this
Not the focus of the video, but there is one thing that sounds strange to me. I know of Hun, Avar, Mongol and similar influences that came earlier than the Ottomans. And we see some of those weapon influences being adapted in the Eastern Roman Empire, so we know people adopted the sabre quite early on. I also agree that when it comes to weapons (and a lot of other things) in the Balkans, the Romanian principate, and late (so 1500) Hungary, we see the Ottoman influence (so not the Turkish as the general group of people, but the empire in particular). But can influences in Poland be attributed to the Ottomans? Do they see it as such, or do they credit the Karabela and the like to the earlier influences (Avars, Mongols, Tartars, etc.)?
Dunno. What do you think?
“Curve swords. They have CURVED SWORDS!!!”
-Sun Tzu
TURKEY MENTIONED 🔥🔥🔥🔥🐺🐺🐺🐺🐺🐺🐺💯💯💯‼‼‼🐺🐺🐺🐺🐺🐺🇹🇷🇹🇷🇹🇷🇹🇷🇹🇷🇹🇷🇹🇷🇹🇷
Jokes aside very informative video, thanks!
A lot of if not most ceremonial swords today are still curved.
Kriegsmesser swords also had a similar inspiration and are some of the best looking ones.
no hand protection- why ?
Whilst handling antiques? He's explained before that after handling his swords in videos, he makes very sure to clean them of any oils, as to prevent further damage to the antiques, or new rust and such on his reproductions, iirc.
@@Griff1011you missed the q. Horseman sabers would often have less knuckle guards because the horse carries you forward. Not standing there sparring
@@KF1 Hey friend, did you reply to the right comment here? I didn't mention sabers in my original reply.
@@Griff1011on a video about sabers?
@@Griff1011 my point was that you misunderstood the question. Why did malamuke style sabers lack knuckle guards? We know he cleans them, that was never the question
Beautiful sword, the british sabre. Would love to own a replica of that style. Seems about ideal for a fighting sabre.😊
This combo makes the saber S Tier
TURKS HAVE BEEN SUMMONED.
I never thought I'd see the day when someone would manage to talk about the influence of Ottoman weapons on Europe and talk so little about Hungarian and Polish-Lithuanian weapons (which were adapted to Ottoman counterparts about 300 years earlier than in Western Europe). Understandable, there is little literature on this in Western Europe - but then you shouldn't approach the subject in this way and pull out an M1796. What a pity!
That is definitely the sword Sharpe ought to have used.
Sharpe’s sword?cool
Замечательное оружие !!!
Why do curved swords seem so much more elegant?
That is a lovely saber. Both swords were quite nice.
in the parlance of the time, they might well have described it as an 'oriental' style.
I don't suppose MOVA globes would make fantasy globes? If you could give them a map and they'd make a globe that would be fun.
'Oi! Hilt features!'. Now there's an insult.
....the Marines are famous for the Mameluke sword...
It's of course a matter of personal tastes but I don't much like the aestethics of extremely curved swords, even though the shape probably has it's practical advantages. I prefer the look of fairly straight blades, something like a katana or a typical cavalry saber is ok but too much curve and especially an "elbow" in the blade just does not please my eyes.
We are and we were and will continue to be Central Europe and Central Europeans, thank you very much!
Cheers!
- end of public service anouncement by your local Imperial Respresentative.
+][+
That's an awesome sabre. I want one now lol Thanks for sharing, Matt
The great thing about swords with Ottoman features is they double as a footrest.
Lighter, more cut capasity. Curved blades are luxury for Turkish horse archers after Bozdoğan. Bozdoğan was the wooden or iron mace for poor soldiers. A simple stick.
Huns are no Hungarians, it is just the name. Also, the Huns had straight swords, not sabres, so they don't really have their place here. You surely meant Avars, the later ones, who were the first to have sabres in Central Europe (end of the 7th, 8th centuries).
Big ol' curvy slicy Choppa!
Polish huzars where famously heavy kavalery so i dont know where this light cavalery stuff is coming from, a group called lisowczycy filled that role.
Only Polish hussars were heavily armored, all others - Hungarian for example - were light cavalry
Hussars originated in the Balkans, and were light cavalry. The term literally means something like pirate/brigand in south Slavic. So calm your fucking pierogis.
He was specifficly talking about polish lancers and eastern European huzars, he was also talking about lithuania wich was part of polish crown. I know word huzzar means something difrrent in west but in this specific context i was under impression he was talking about winged ones.
Does Lucy know you borrowed one of her swords 😉
That sword is not pala, there are two types of pala sword, in montenegro and boka kotorska there is yatagan like sword but with straight blade and no ears, it is caled pala. And ottoman pala is broader blade allmost straight with slight curvature, crossguard is turned up to the blade and usualy has a karabela style bird like handle.
Look books: fejsil curcic, oruzje u hrvata, and similar for those pictures.
It is wrong and it spread thru europe and world that kilij is pala, it is not!
That is a foot soliders kilij from 19. century.
That is not pala and it is wrong to call it a pala, then we can call rapier a saber, or palasch a saber.
Turkic is not the same as Ottoman. There were many more Turkic tribes in the Great Steppe.
Correct, but the Ottomans' material culture was heavily inspired by their culturally Turkic origins, which include their swords.
@@rasmusn.e.m1064 Yeah, but yelman probably evolved in contact with Plate Armor, not used in Steppe.
@@morriganmhor5078I think this was partly the point of the video, that cross-inspiration has always been a large factor in sword design. Same could be said of language, religion, and cuisine.
🗿👍
When Easton swords influence Weston swords...
"Huszár" means every twenthieth guy that can fight in Hungary. They were instituted in the 15th century, mainly against the Ottoman threat. There was no Austro-Hungarian Empire untill 1861, way after the Napoleonic wars. There was a Hungarian kingdom, an Austrian Archiduchy and a Holy Roman Empire, all in the powers of a same fanily since the 16th century: the Habsburgs.
current politics on this channel? xD
Aww hell no tell me you're lying. Unless he's calling Shad a larping incel, then it's all good
@@EuTrabalhoParaSagres510 self-explanatory xD
@@couchcamperTM yeah I got it right after 🤣🤣🤣
You’re wearing Ottoman inspired clothes in the video.
LET'S EXAMINE IT'S FEATURES, HA HA HA 😆
Here's why they're called "Frocking Swords" according to the Navy.
In the US Military (so take that into account) "Frock Swords" are ceremonial, and only given/worn for "Frocking Ceremonies" aka "Ranking Ceremonies" where officers over a certain rank, attaining promotion, can _optionally_ also be presented with a sword, which they can also wear with their High Dress Uniforms (the ones worn to black-tie events and meeting World Leaders etc.)
To my knowledge, these were never meant to be capable of combat, usually being ornate, dull, overly delicate (needing to be super light to be worn all night by very old men throughout hours-long events they may have had to stand through), and overly ornate (we like eagles and laurels in the US Military). They were meant to be pretty, and to be mounted/shadow-boxed and hung on a wall with a placard after/between uses (some folk liked to have a newer, more ornate one for each qualifying rank earned, displaying them like a ladder).
The word "Frock" is an archaic term for "dressing" and was typically reserved for Clergy donning Ceremonial Vestments... er... _ceremonially._ Such as being draped in a special vestment during a special Mass by either assistants or a superior ranked clergyman as part of the ceremony. This included ceremonies in which their rank was raised, but wasn't exclusive to that use.
This later came to be used in general to mean "don ceremonially", and was adopted by the military for the pinning-on of medals of rank or achievement in a ceremony, and was expanded to include the presentation of any symbol of rank or office, thus attaining that rank or office.
It became so synonymous that we even call the "butterfly clasp" for holding pins on a "frog" in the military, a humorous corruption of the word "Frock" owing, so it is said, to the way the clasp looks like a little frog at some angles. (place it on a table, flat side down, then look at it edge on)
Frocking swords were _usually_ in the same style as issued weapons, but that was not a requirement until much later. Now, in the US, it _MUST_ be of the specific sort and specs worn by the specific branch of the military (US Navy is a straight-bladed Cutlass, *Marines is a Mamluk* and the oldest continually used weapon in the US Military, and the Army and Air Force (formerly US Army: Air Corps) use the Model 1902 Army Officers' [Cavalry] Saber)
LOL: When Easton swords influence western swords
Gay sword by a gay lord
That is one ugly sword
Said the the keyboard crusader🤣
Here's why they're called "Frocking Swords" according to the Navy.
In the US Military (so take that into account) "Frock Swords" are ceremonial, and only given/worn for "Frocking Ceremonies" aka "Ranking Ceremonies" where officers over a certain rank, attaining promotion, can _optionally_ also be presented with a sword, which they can also wear with their High Dress Uniforms (the ones worn to black-tie events and meeting World Leaders etc.)
To my knowledge, these were never meant to be capable of combat, usually being ornate, dull, overly delicate (needing to be super light to be worn all night by very old men throughout hours-long events they may have had to stand through), and overly ornate (we like eagles and laurels in the US Military). They were meant to be pretty, and to be mounted/shadow-boxed and hung on a wall with a placard after/between uses (some folk liked to have a newer, more ornate one for each qualifying rank earned, displaying them like a ladder).
The word "Frock" is an archaic term for "dressing" and was typically reserved for Clergy donning Ceremonial Vestments... er... _ceremonially._ Such as being draped in a special vestment during a special Mass by either assistants or a superior ranked clergyman as part of the ceremony. This included ceremonies in which their rank was raised, but wasn't exclusive to that use.
This later came to be used in general to mean "don ceremonially", and was adopted by the military for the pinning-on of medals of rank or achievement in a ceremony, and was expanded to include the presentation of any symbol of rank or office, thus attaining that rank or office.
It became so synonymous that we even call the "butterfly clasp" for holding pins on a "frog" in the military, a humorous corruption of the word "Frock" owing, so it is said, to the way the clasp looks like a little frog at some angles. (place it on a table, flat side down, then look at it edge on)
Frocking swords were _usually_ in the same style as issued weapons, but that was not a requirement until much later. Now, in the US, it _MUST_ be of the specific sort and specs worn by the specific branch of the military (US Navy is a straight-bladed Cutlass, *Marines is a Mamluk* and the oldest continually used weapon in the US Military, and the Army and Air Force (formerly US Army: Air Corps) use the Model 1902 Army Officers' [Cavalry] Saber)
I heard in boot camp (decades ago) that the oldest weapon was the guidon (spear).
@@imperfectlump6070 surely the oldest _military_ weapon. it's a mainstay of every pre-industrial military in recorded history, that's for sure.
we don't know what the oldest weapon 'period' is, for sure, though, as it's in pre-history, and it depends on your definition.
could be that it's a Stick, or Rock. "any object used to kill a target not attached to the body".
OR could be a knife/club "the first object made by human hands specifically to kill"
OR could be the sling or spear "The first object made by human hands to kill that doesn't serve another purpose" (knives/clubs are tools, too)
it's a fascinating topic! ☺🪖