Dear Authors... Villains [CC]
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- Опубликовано: 2 окт 2024
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The only time I can remember enjoying a villainous monologue is when its by Dr. Doofenshmirtz from Phineas and Ferb
LazyBookworm I cannot agree with this more
I thought of him immediately lmao
That one works because it’s more of a comedic deconstruction of the classic villain tropes.
Oh my god s a m e
I so agree
Give me a villainous monologue where the hero still dies afterwards.
Not death, but this idea immediately makes me think of Watchman.
"I'm not some cartoon villain, I did this all half an hour ago"
Spiderverse?
SAW did it. And that's what made the first two films so amazing
Deadly K I have one in my book as well. Except that she doesn’t die. She just doesn’t escape during that (not so cheesy) monologue
"I did it 35 minutes ago"
When writing a villain monologue, be sure to include:
- villainous and loud laughter
- the entire plan to take over the world in unnecessary detail
- "it was me all along"
- "you fool"
- "did you actually believe..."
Have a villain give a monologue about a fake plan
The hero now just spent 2 hours wasting time on a non existent virus, while the villain has already moved onto to the next stage or even outright won
DIO!
@@MegaQuinners I immediately thought of Dio😂
The "You Fool!" Slaps 😂
Villain: "You fool, little did you know but you were a fool because you were a fool. How do I know you are a fool? I'm glad you asked. I knew because of your foolish acts that can only be described as the acts of a fool!"
One of the reasons that Mother Gothel is my favorite Disney villain and the Disney villain I think is the most scary is how she’s so rooted in reality. Mother Gothel’s behavior in tangled is parallel to how mentally abusive parents are like in real life. They think their innocent (“So I’M the bad guy? Fine. Now I’m the bad guy”) and that their child is doing nothing but causing them pain. She manipulates Rapunzel. Pretending to be kind near the end of the movie so that Rapunzel decides to come back to her. She wanted Rapunzel, telling her that the outside world is dangerous. And at the same time, she was correct. The outside world IS dangerous. But I think we can all agree that trapping your fake daughter in a tower for like 18 years is unreasonable. I don’t know if I’m really explaining this right. But the reason Mother Gothel is scary, is because she realistic. She isn’t evil in the same way that other Disney villains are. Other Disney villains are evil because they’re dangerous in a way where they harm others. Mother Gothel is evil because she’s manipulative.
I couldn't agree more!
One of the greatest classic Disney villains is Lady Tremaine from Cinderella, for many of the same reasons.
Gothel and Frollo are probably the most disturbing disney villains because they're so grounded in reality
We all know manipulative people or people who use their status to be assholes
Yes! Thank you!
I strongly agree!
What I hate: when it comes time for the villain to be killed,then the protagonist says they can't do it,because killing is wrong,but before this happened they went on a killing spree killing all the henchmen. I find it very hypocritical.
Also when the hero drops his guard, the villain suddenly reaches for a gun so the hero would kill the villain in self defense and that would avoid hate mail from angry parents.
THIS - also when they act all virtuous and stuff just to prove they’re the good guy and the whole ‘I’ll be as bad as them’ trope
Cough cough
Fuckin moon knight
Yeah like we built the whole story up for this moment and now you decide you can’t do it
@@One.Zero.One101 true, and even worse is the "Greedo shot first" retcon.
Zuko's redemption arc in Avatar is one of the best redemption arcs ever written
Zuko's redemption arc is the redemption arc that I will forever judge all redemption arcs against, and I love that.
Zuko is a masterclass in redemption. As in I've seen actual RUclips lectures on him.
Zuko is my all time favorite villain I challenge anyone to top that
That and Ventress's redemption
Personally I have seen better. I am in the generation that seen show take it has an inspiration to do better and succeed. And also because personally I wasn't that into it. When I watch it, it was awesome seriously. But having everyone telling you how good it is and how much it so mature. I have kind of lost it. Fandom are great to an extent. I am sure I have done the same when I was newly fan of Gravity Falls.
Idea for flipping the "villain monologue" trope: Villain kills the protagonist, then monologues to their dead body. Protag's friends arrive, hear the villain monologuing, and assume they've gotten there in time, only to see that their friend is already dead. This would probably only work in stories with a darker tone, but I think this would be a great way to give the protagonists a real reason to fear the villain
I like that. Could be a great prolog haha. You're following a character you think will be the MC but they get killed and the actual MC is one of their friends/family/fan, etc
@@thearisen7301 holy crap i love this. i'm still new to the false protagonists trope but yes i love it
I would read the heck out of that.
Isn’t that the famous scene from hamlet where the villainous protagonist is monologuing to the skull of his rival.
Friend is now Protagonist 2.0
I somewhat agree with the "evil for the sake of evil isn't always bad" angle. Not everyone in the real world has good motivations that were simply directed in the wrong way. Sometimes people just suck. Sometimes they don't even HAVE a motivation.
A good trick is to have variation if you're writing different variations.
Agreed. They still should have some kind of layers, "eeeeviiiillll" can't just be their only trait, but they still don't always have to have an understandable goal. They can just be a screwed up person sometimes.
Even more to the point, this whole question of 'layered villains' vs simplistic ones is itself much more layered than most people realize. On the one hand, you have Thanos who is appreciated because he has actual reasons behind his plots, but on the other hand you have Sauron, who exists really only to dominate others and destroy the works of the Elves. In a similar fashion, Voldemort may one have been Tom Riddle, but by the time he gets to being the villain in Harry Potter he's an irredeemable Black Hat who wants to take over the world mainly because he can.
The real factors in play are HOW is this villain used. Voldemort and Sauron both spend much of their time 'off-screen', and Sauron in fact never makes an appearance in The Lord of the Rings. He exists as as a villainous backdrop, instead, and the true villain of the story is the Ring itself, since the Ring is the adversary against which the protagonist (Frodo) is actually fighting. But, let's remember that Ring is still relatively one-dimensional in its desire and ability to corrupt the wearer and turn him into a servant or facsimile of Sauron. None of the other villains in the tale, from the orcs, to the Balrog, to the Nazgul are actually anything other than Evil, with only Saruman laying claim to more layers than this, but mostly owing to his backstory. By the time of the War of the Ring, Saruman wants to rule Middle-earth, just because he (thinks he) can, just like Sauron.
And yet, despite this one-dimensional villainy, and despite the lack of truly layered villainy, The Lord of the Rings is still one of the most satisfying protagonist journeys in the entire field of storytelling. What we get, rather than seeing nuanced layers of villainy, is seeing many different _shades_ of that one-dimensional villainy. Consider the orcs, again. We get to follow and meet the orcs personally on multiple occasions, through the observations of the Hobbits. The Isengarders are about as much Burn-Hack-Kill as one can get, and yet the chapter we spend in their company is compelling precisely because of how much it is terrifying to the protagonists. The banter of the orcs at Cirith Ungol reveals how vile and despicable they are, which is precisely why you feel so creeped out and disgusted by them, but also fearful for the protagonist. That fear is on hyperdrive when the Hobbits encounter the Nazgul themselves, with no need for nuance or complicated motivations on the part of the villains. The very 'simplicity' of this arrangement does not detract from the reader's experience; rather, that experience is heightened because the danger the protagonists are in is the real inspiration for your emotions. The directness, the implacable nature of the evil, with no hope of appealing to reason or ulterior motive, is the very thing which laces the events with true peril.
Now, with all that said, I don't mean to imply that nuanced villains are inferior. Far from it, depending upon the setting. Many genres and styles require such layered villains in order to make them compelling, but usually these are the ones wherein the reader actually gets to spend time not just with the villain, but AS the villain. Increasingly, we have come to treat villains as someone to relate to in some way, because that allows us to step into their shoes and see where they are coming from. It's become a powerful tool of storytelling, especially if the message of the story requires such nuance to be potent. Comic books (and their movies) are clear examples of this, but, even within that world of storytelling, usually the most epic, the most memorable, and the most compelling villains of all are the ones who represent a dire threat to everything the protagonists hold dear, with little motivation for this threat beyond: "Because I can", or simply to demonstrate their superiority. For examples of this I would cite Apocalypse, Darkseid, Doomsday, etc., and even the original Thanos in the Infinity Gauntlet storyline painted him as an implacable servant of Death, who was trying to murder half the universe to impress her.
There's no cheapness to these examples. They're not 'poorly written', as one might suggest following this idea that villains require nuance. Instead, they are exceptionally WELL written, because on some level they all tap into that great fear within all of us of a foe we cannot reason with, or even beg for mercy. Even without the compelling nuance of, say, a Machiavellian schemer who thinks he is saving the world in his own way, these villains manage to remain more memorable and powerful in the imagination.
Just sayin'. I do understand the modern appetite for villains to make sense as people too, but I truly think that in many cases, the comparatively simpler motivations of a Black Hat tyrant serve greater and more fundamental purposes. To me, it all depends on how you make them impact the protagonist.
@@Lodatzor I wouldn't say Saruman wants to rule because he can, it is a drift into evilness. Saruman's desire is to get power to destroy Sauron. At first he gets into contact with Sauron to betray him, but he gets corrupted by him. In the end he still believes he is ultimately superior to Sauron, but has forgotten what goal his struggle previously had and therefore becomes Sauron's puppet, weakening middle-earth instead of strengthening it.
Otherwise I agree with you. A villain has to fit the story and its themes, not necessarily "realism".
@@JoniWan77 I agree with you too, my point was just that despite the backstory we can learn about Saruman from Tolkien's other writings (and again I agree with your summation), by the time of and within the story of LotR itself Saruman's motivation had already become one-dimensional.
I'm very tempted to make my clever villain do the monologue trope just to make everything he say total bs he spits out to buy time for his actual evil plan to happen.
Hero: I gotta keep this guy talking until my deus ex machina gets here
Villain: I gotta keep talking to keep this idiot distracted while my dark ritual finishes
like that scene in spider man homecoming where Vulture is literally monologuing to buy time for his suit to come online.
similar to watchmen ending! the only time i've seen the villain monologue done right
@@vastava Yeah except he monologues because it's already happened by the time the heroes got there. It was literally too late for them to do anything about it
"and then after that I will..."
"You will what?"
"You know I'll um...god I should've taken that improv class in college."
"What?"
That could be turned into a really funny situation. Just a villain spouting bs and barely knowing what they are saying. I would honestly love to read that.
I love complex villains, but sometimes all you need to know is "Some men just want to watch the world burn." Evil and chaos for the sake of evil and chaos can be great too.
I come from the future and I couldnt agree more. Everyone kept saying "Evil for the sake of Evil" was bad and now were seeing the flip side of that. Damn near every villain now is a redeemable tragic backstory type story and it was fine at first but its become played out. Bring back irredeemable pure evil villains like Sauron, Emperor palpatine, Pennywise, Lord Voldemort etc. Sometimes a "man who just wants to watch the world burn" story is interesting
i love villains that could easily be the hero on different circumstances.
Lookin at you Rashek
@@MetalCharlo my first thought was Rashek too
tigerlily I'm currently writing a story about a magical society where a new magic type is started (witchcraft) and it starts to spread by a dark witch named Viran who was originally just an average mage. Viran is actually partially under control by a demon and still doesn't do that dark of things but the story is written from the perspective of the friends of the chosen one who must stop the darkness. The way it is framed makes Viran look like the worst person ever but realistically he's just instituting change into a rigid society. It's more meant to comment on our society in a way, but I like fantasy so it's about magic.
Lol possibly Kelsier
Magneto. Given human nature he's probably right that peace with humanity is impossible
"He starts monologueing! He starts like this prepared speech about how feeble I am compare to him, how inevitable my defeat is, yadda yadda yadda. How the world will soon be his! I mean the guy has me on a platter, and he won't shut up!"
Incredibles?
"You sly dog! You got me monologuing!"
That was my first thought when she read the "villain monologue" comment.
i've seen the movie enough times to hear the voice just as i was reading this
I was thinking the exact same thing. Lol
The “villain used to be a good guy and now faces someone he used to love” is basically Darth Vader, one of my favorite villains because of that exact reason. I love how tragic his story is and how he is the chosen one turned evil. Also love the best friend betrayal!
I loved the arc for Vader! It was the only good thing about the prequels. 😂
But he also had that stupid inappropiate redemtion.
@@skullfullofbooks7398, so you liked the prequels because that is basically the whole prequel trilogy
The best villainous monologue is Ozymandias "I'm monologuing because I already won boys" and then he goes and wins!
Which book, if I may ask?
@@plexi9043 Watchmen comics
And it is explained why he actually monolouges. Ozy is a narcissist, and truly enjons monolouging and explaining how (in his own twisted mind) he has saved the world. He enjoys feeding his ego.
Hannibal Lecter is a good example of how you can do a villain who is just plain evil.
"Nothing happened to me, Officer Starling. I happened. You can’t reduce me to a set of influences."
A classic
I actually like villains who are just evil. Psychopaths. Hannibal, Joker, etc
Even in the case of Hannibal, the people he chooses to eat are typically people he sees as problems with the world, like the orchestra player who was off key, or the patient of his who he knew couldn't be helped, etc. He never really goes after good honest people, just people he thinks the world would be better off without. For Lector, his appetite is a form of twisted justice.
Avatar has both: an excellent redemption arc and a villain who doesn't need any redemption (the fire lord).
Cruel people exist. I don't mind plain evil villains as long as they have reasons to grow into the persons they are.
the variation in character that ATLA has is really good. obviously some improvement could be made but that goes for all art. its just nice to see the care put into creating diverse and interesting characters
I think the better villain who doesn't need any redemption is Azula.
The Fire Lord actually believed in sharing the greatness of the fire nation with the rest of the world. The real evil was Azula
@@Ghostboy_Nate I disagree. Azula is actually a really complex and interesting character. I wouldn't say she's a good person but she's not pure evil. She was one of Ozai's main abuse victims. Her father basically conditioned her to not show fear and emotion. He taught her that only strength and power mattered. She would do anything to please her father. She forgot about her sense of empathy just to be Ozai's perfect weapon. She became almost perfect at fire bending just for him. Everything bad that she did was for him. But Ozai probably never loved her. He just favored her because he knew he could manipulate her at an early age and also because of her talents.
Since Zuko wasn't as talented as her, Ozai pushed him to the side. Ursa loved and cared for him more. Zuko would've turned out just like Azula if he didn't have her and Iroh. Azula had absolutely no one. She thought that her mother only loved Zuko. She was jealous of him because she wanted Ursa's love too. She turned to her father and tried to get his love and affection instead. Ozai probably knew that and tried to use it to his advantage. But he was never there for her when she needed him the most.
She was also terrified of him. When Zuko disagreed with Ozai, he got banished. She learned to never disrespect him, because she was told that whoever went against Ozai's power deserved to be hurt.
People also forget that Azula was a literal child. She was only 14 and deserved more time to learn from her mistakes. Iroh is often idolized and considered the best character but he has also made some terrible mistakes. He was one of the fire nation's most famous war generals. He didn't change into a better person until his son died. Iroh was decades old at that time. So why did he deserve a second chance, but not Azula? Zuko had also done some bad things. He even burned a village down along with other things. But Zuko got a redemption arc too.
It's extremely ignorant and stupid to say that Ozai, an abuser and horrific dictator, is morally better than his victims.
@@Ghostboy_Nate Firelord Sozin believed, there is no evidence that Firelord Ozai believed he was great and did not just want to rule the world.
I'd argue "Evil for the sake of evil" isn't what's being talked about with that statement. That's just "I hate poorly written villains"
For example greed, the lust for power and money, etc, isn't an altruistic motive but it isn't just "evil for the sake of evil". Self gratification can be a motivator for evil quite easily. They're not evil cuz evil, it's that they just don't care. They care more about their self gratification than the well being of others.
Also there have been people who just enjoy violence. This can also take form as the "I'm an artist but I use blood/bodies" or the "I love war" types.
We can say "evil for the sake of evil" but that's actually just saying "the villain needs to be fleshed out" because no one likes a poorly written villain.
I agree, and to add: the antagonist needs a background that relates to their "evil" traits, so that we can see where the influence comes from. Otherwise it'll probably just be one of the poorly written ones.
Yeah, I think evil for the sake of evil is totally legit for certain types of villains. Serial killers for instance. Many have horrible backgrounds of abuse, but some don't. They just want to kill people.
@@mzachary99 antagonist =/= villain. An antagonist only opposes the protagonist. A villain is objectively evil.
You can even have a villain protagonist and an antagonist to oppose him. Best example Light and L from Death Note.
Light killing people from his Übermensch God complex and playing cat and mouse with the police, spiraling into a supernatural murder spree and the intellectual and collected, quirky Antagonist with his merry group of diverse characters from the police trying to stop him. It's just a different angle.
@@illiengalene2285 yes, I meant the traits that would make him oppose the protagonist. Thats why I put quotes around "evil".
Erin Ross agree those with a clean background make their action all the more terrifying
I’m glad you mentioned Avatar: the Last Airbender - the redemption arc in that show is the best I’ve ever seen.
Zuko is why I keep rewatching the few every couple of years. I wouldn't come back for Aang.
@@Yora21
I would come back for Aang, because he came back for the world 💝
@@cosmicdankhead9171 If you were in the show I would come back for you, because you have my boy Aang's back 👌💝✨
Oh, yeah.
"If somebody got the ball from one goal to the other, everyone would yell, "REDEMPTION!"
Best game ever made.
Exactly
"You sly dog! You had me monologuing!"
I read this is a Malfoy voice for some reason
@@turkishundelightful5382 did I just wheeze, sneeze or relate?
Me: *just about to type out Zuko’s redemption ark from ATLA and think my comment is absolutely new and revolutionary*
Merphy: *mentions it just when I’m about to send my comment*
Me: *disappointment face* -______-
top 10 saddest anime moments
Garras redemption arc 👍
As a person who had unfortunate occupation hazard that I've had to deal with real life criminals who would fit the description of "evil for the sake of evil" I have to say that the actually unrealistic villains are the one who has shades of grey, has motivations "you almost can agree with" etc. etc.
The horrible unfortunate truth is that evil and evil people exists, and their reasons and rationale are almost bafflingly non-existent. They're overly simplistic to the point of utter stupidity.
I was thinking the same ,in real life many people are evil for the sake of evil there's really not much justification to their actions.
Precisely. There are so many awful people who are simply awful. No complexity. They tend to just be selfish and short - sighted.
I have a friend who is in the clean up crew after the forensic people go over everything, and the things he sees and the reasons why they do it are disgustingly simple.
Such as the guy being neglected by their mother figure and so they kill females that looks like their mom.
Or the person was chewing too loud so they pushed them down the stairs and hid the body.
There's no grey area in that. It's just a sick mind doing what sick minds do. Heroic villains are cool, but there is a real danger out there and they don't care about having a logical reason other than it feels satisfying to themselves.
@@1swerdna I just read that as selfish and short at first.... I was like, what does height have to do with it???
That's actually pretty scary..
"pure evil" doesn't mean "evil for the shake of evil"
@Liza Johnson no it doesn't. You can be really selfish/greedy/hungry for power with no redeeming qualities, but it doesn't mean you're just being evil for the sake of bring evil. There is a reason you are evil, wether it be money or power or whatever.
I would argue that even in real life, there are people who are evil for the sake of being evil, it's called sadism
zakosist well they don’t do it thinking “ha ha, I like being evil.” They do it because they get entertainment out of watching suffering.
@@peripheralzx11 No, but the fact is that they aren't being evil to better their own prospects. They aren't being evil to make the world a better place in any way. They are just being evil, because they like it.
Evil for the sake of evil. Pure evil.
@@georgevelis4651 Exactly! Thank you!
I'm getting tired of hearing the "evil for the sake of evil" thing being aligned with pure evil villains. It is not the same thing at all!
Being evil for the sake of being evil sounds like if someone is being a villain because they are playing a role. Evil isn't something you try to be for evils sake; it is something you are or aren't depending on what the world considers to be acceptable or not.
Being pure evil means that you have no redeeming qualities as you said. But it doesn't mean that you are doing it "for the sake of evil." It means you do what you do because you *are evil.* Greed, power, sadism, hate, are all qualities that can motivate a person to do evil things. Many of the most infamous serial killers in our world were just messed up from the get-go. They don't kill for evil's sake; they kill because they have evil traits. And that's not unrealistic.
We need a story where the main character brutally tortures the villain to get the villainous monologue with his plan out of him
You must have been born *very* recently, they made a show with 204 episodes about this very unrealistic scenario. Over, and over, and _over._ Not to mention probably a bunch of 80's action movies. I don't think we need _more_ stories where the hero is a morally compromised fascist, but everything's novel to someone, I guess...
tbh I think we need more "pure evil" villains, like the Joker and Maleficent. I think Overly Sarcastic Productions explained it best lol
Agreed. I'm tired of people thinking every villian needs to be relatable in some shape or form
It reminded me of Lavana from the Lunar Chronicles, because she is straight up bad. Marissa Meyer handled that well. Knowing her back story though as you come to uncover you feel empathy for her, but her decisions are still straight evil always.
Honestly, I’m just so happy both OSP and I’m the Grim Reaper came up in this comment, I love them both so much
Bill Cipher from Gravity Falls is a great example of a "pure evil" villain done wonderfully. He is hilarious and a huge, looming threat throughout the show. I can't even explain it well without writing an essay, he's just so good. One of my favorites.
I agree with you a d OSP, Maleficent was always may favorite villian. Also isn't true villiany evil? Doesn't complex reasoning just make an antagonist?
I love villains who have or had a romantic/ sexual relationship with the hero.
It opens up a lot of potential with how the main character will decide on how to deal with the villain and how they'll interact.
Alina and the darkling 🫣
Batman and Catwoman, Daredevil and Elektra...
2 movies that did *it* right: Megamind, and The Incredibles (in my opinion)
I haven’t seen Megamind yet (for some reason) but I agree with The Incredibles definitely. They even make fun about silly tropes like that
Fully agree
@@joeyjerry1586 have you seen it yet?
@@JacobGrim, I finally did, three days ago. It was shockingly amazing. I did not expect it to be so funny but also quite mature and clever in its writing
But Megamind is evil for the sake of being evil, he want to be bad. Steinsgate has the main character acting evil, but eveyone knows it's just that - an act. This works well.
SUGGESTION: Dear author, plot twists!
Yesss!
I want plot twists that make me want to throw the book across the room. I want plot twists where if I reread the books and see the subtle foreshadowing/hints of that plot twist I would think “how the fuck did I not see that!?” I need more book series that do this because I have only come across one series that does that so far.
I like this one!
But sometimes a plot twist can feel forced or predictable, in which case it's better without the twist.
*sweats* uh oh. they're coming for me. oh god. i'm not safe. they're taking away my crops and poisoning the water. i'm changing my name and moving to norway. they'll never find me. this is romania mcgurdlestevengondo signing out.
Murphy: No one is evil just for the sake of it. They have reasons.
Serial killers/Murders: Let us introduce ourselves.
Yes, but even those people have reasons that they do what they do. It is often because of deep psychological issues they may not even realize they have, but there IS a reason.
@@deanneekstrand4128 came here to say that, especially psychopaths and sociopaths who lack the ability to empathize with others - not saying all psychopaths and sociopaths are bad people or murderers
@@deanneekstrand4128 I agree that they had a past that drove them to do that.But when it comes to psychopaths,their reasons are completely unjustified,they simply do it out of spite not out of craving for material like many criminals do.The human desire to hurt other beings even when it accomplishes nothing is a weird trait.
Random Guy Some do it for the challenge or thrill of getting caught, some see themselves as artists,etc.
Murderers don’t care so I agree on this logic
One of my favorite villains and characters is Petyr Baelish from A Song of Ice and Fire (not the TV show). He is very complex and intelligent. You don't realize how much he has done behind the scenes until book four and you just do not know what he is going to do next. I love it.
Her: *mentions count of monte Cristo*
FINALLY SOMEONE WHO HAS READ THIS MASTERPIECE
“Villains can’t be evil for the sake of being evil.”
*Sauron would like to know your location.*
He does not fit the bill. He does it because he is the Maia of order. He is biologically programmed to pursue order, and the only way he knows to do that is to make everyone kneel to and obey him. Not pure evil.
Yeah also Joker people don't talk about joker enough he's the best pure evil villan 😌
@@bowl1858 If only there was a spinoff prequel showing the journey and transformation of Arthur Fleck into the Joker.
@@maxittax No, that sounds mostly overindulgent and boring.
@@kendrajade6688 yes, but i believe the point is that there /is/ a 'spinoff prequel' showing the journey and transformation of Mairon into Sauron, namely. the silmarillion. but hey, sauron gets to be pure evil and have no motivation because no one reads lore bibles.
The Dark Knight’s Joker is pretty dark and evil yet he’s a great villain. He wants to prove to the world that they’re just as twisted as he is, only separated by one bad day.
yeah Alan Moore references!!!!
He’s in my top 5 villains. Just amazing. I actually almost understand him
@@charlieadams2143 Well most people do, that's why everyone loves him as a villain. Characters can definitely just be sick and twisted individuals, and that's definitely not boring when done well (Purple Man, Joker, Scarecrow etc.).
Chaos is his motivation. Also, his complexity lies in that he's the opposite to the protagonist. Where Batman finds solace in order and justice, Joker revels in chaos and corruption. That in and of itself is interesting.
Who doesn’t love the Joker in The Dark Knight?
Sauron is one of the best examples of a "pure evil" villain. He's more of an entity than an actual villain because he doesn't have any page time as an individual (he literally doesn't have a body haha). But I think it works really well because he has evil influence and he can corrupt even those that consider themselves good and pure. It can be done well, I just think more modern fantasy leans towards the grey villains instead of black and white.
I feel like he's a metaphor for corruption! Give anyone a little bit of power and it takes over them!!
"But I think it works really well because he has evil influence and he can corrupt even those that consider themselves good and pure."
This!
That's why the Ring works so well. In a way, the One Ring is the truest villain in the Lord of the Rings, because it's the physical presence of Sauron's malevolence. The Dark Lord's true power is coaxing the darkness that already exists within others. Hopefully, the Amazon TV show showcases this while exploring Sauron's time among the Numenorians.
Sauron has an excuse to be pure evil though, having been corrupted by the already vanquished true big bad of Middle Earth, Melkor/Morgoth. Sauron was a prideful perfectionist who saw an opportunity to express his version of perfection through Melkor and Melkor used that drive to absolutely corrupt him into what he later became.
Right, yeah? He wasn't evil from the beginning of his existence. He actually had good intentions back then... to build a better world, etc.
I’m a huge book reader. I love my stories and I love all of my books, no matter the flaw. But this “Evil for the sake of evil” being a bad thing isn’t all that bad.
I love to read stories where the villain is just plain evil, it doesn’t take away from the story at all; there may be some people who disagree with me, but there are people in the world that are just pure evil with no motive for what they do. So sometimes I find it fitting to see that in my books.
**credit to whoever wrote that comment about Lord Of The Rings, great example of a villain being just plain evil for the sake of it**
Satan becoming evil was motivated by envy of God, but once he is evil, he is evil all the way. He sacrifices billions of people, without conscience or regret, throughout the history of the world; he wins one when he is able to destroy a human life, preferably spiritually, one whom God loves and wants for Himself. This is why we rightfully shudder when a person describes him or herself as a satanist. Evil, for the sake of evil, is evil in deliberate moral alignment with Satan.
2:33 On this subject I always remember the phrase from Batman the dark knight "there are people who just want to see the world burn" and for this reason unmotivated villains do not seem so bad and sometimes they are better than villains who make a drama about how their parents didn't love them when they were little 🤷🤷
* Voldemort monologing for hours in the end of almost every Harry Potter book *
Leti L Yes. How much better it would have been if Harry ‘tried’ to warn Voldemort but instead of what we got, the casting of spells happens and Harry is the victor - then, after the celebration as the trio walk to the Headmaster’s office, Hermione asks Harry why and he explains how he had won the wand’s allegiance etc. (Harry figured out something Hermione didn’t, and not revealing all about the powerful wand to every single person present at the Battle of Hogwarts)
(On side note, we shouldn’t have got Cursed Child as a sequel, we could have had someone trying to kill Harry for the Elder Wand)
I disagree with this one, mostly because there was a whole side plot that involved getting to know Voldemort, and coming to understand the impressive depths of his ego. I honestly would have been more surprised if he didn’t monologue at the end of books 2, 4, and 7.
@@CharMesan Holy crap I would absolutely have read *that* sequel! The Cursed Child is a disgrace to the Wizarding World. I didn't even think about how Harry and Voldemort were having their discord in front of the entire audience of the students and the remaining death eaters... Wow. Lol. Mind = blown.
I can touch you now....
*AAAAAH! AAHAAAHAHAHAHSHU!*
My favorite villains are the ones who aren’t afraid to go all out. Scar, The Joker, Rumpelstiltskin, Palpatine, those are the villains I love the most
Rumplestilskin from Once Upon A Time or in general???
Arowyn
Once Upon a Time. Sorry for the confusion
@@arowyn.m I was thinking of the one from shrek lmao
Rumple was literally the best ouat character imo
Ezgi
Same
Something I'd love to see more is when a character full heartedly falls for a villans plan.If the villan is supposed to be smart then let them trick the hero/MC, it gets so dull when everytime a villan tries to pull something the hero automatically sees right through it.Hero's don't always need to see a villans plan.The best types of villans are ones that can actually confuse the hero.Villains are supposed to make you hurt and confused. hero's don't need to be perfect, ever person has a weakness.Villans should be able to reconize this weakness and bulid on it.
A great example of this is with Claudia in The Dragon Prince. Her manipulative father, Viren, gaslights her and her brother and is generally a turd. However, Claudia, having been conditioned to trust her father and basically believe Viren can do no wrong, goes along with his plans like a loyal puppy dog. Although Claudia may not be the MC, she is one of the best characters in the show.
Also, Viren is a wonderfully dimensional character, but that's beside the point.
idk if it's fitting enough but my first thought was Hannibal....
Like in Harry Potter!
The best Villain monologue is in between Dr. Doofenshmirtz and Perry the Platypus
Does anyone else love it when the villain shows true respect for the side characters or even the main character. One of my favorite series has a villain who literally gave his power to one of the side characters when he died out of pure respect. I loved it.
I LOATHE villains who suddenly become “sympathetic” because it’s revealed they have a Tragic Backstory (TM)
Ikr if your going to do that build that sympathy WITH character development.
If their sympathy is just out of nowhere right after revealing their tragic backstory it’s just annoying.
I think this can only be done right in one scenario. If the backstory has been woven into the story to such a point you go: wwaaaiiiit a second, I get all that earlier stuff now.
I mean I can't say I agree 100%. I just read a demo for an IF where the character who attacked the Main is captured and we learn from there his tragic downfall. I 100% saw why he did things but regardless of his backstory he still did some horrible things. I've come to accept authors are allowed to put sympathetic motivation in to provide different perspectives but like all things, how its received is dependant on the person reading.
But if the villain plays this trope in universe to manipulate someone (like the Joker did to his psychiatrist)...
PREACH!
I actually would really enjoy reading a book where the villain is as powerful as they were claimed to be through the build up and they come out on top and the heroes fail, and then it turns out that the “3rd person narration” is actually the villain explaining what happened and after the reveal of their success they started narrating in 1st person. Does that make sense? I would love to see a book written that way!!
That's actually an amazing idea! The kind that makes me wonder why it hasn't been done yet! That'd be such an amazing twist!
I think I get what you're saying. Basically like the 300, but with the Persians retelling the story which ends in their victory instead the one eyed Spartan telling the story to inspire the Spartan army.
That would be a really interesting read.
OMG I LOVE YOU FOR THAT.
RWBY . Go and watch.
Avatar: The Last Airbender is by far, from almost every single point of view, the best TV show I have ever seen. It's so good it hurts trying to describe it, because you can never really do it justice. IT'S JUST SO GOOD. AAAAAH
I think you might like Fullmetal Alchemist in that case.
Revanchist AtLA, FMA and FMA:B are the best animated shows in my opinion
Did you know Wonderstorm made another show? It's called The Dragon Prince, and it's amazing.
SAME UGH
I will never get over how AMAZING that show is
I love when the protagonist and villain have a moment of realisation that they both have a good argument with whatever and it’s just an emotional scene when the characters know that they are against but understand each other
Audiences: "Evil for the sake of evil is bad."
Also audiences: "They don't make any good Disney villains anymore!"
Right? They will never understand how much they damaged their own brand when they tried to redeem Maleficent.
What about Mother Gothel from Tangled??
@@weissrose1081 That was the last one, or one of the last. It's all twist villains after that
Maybe in the next movie they will?... let’s just see.
@@weissrose1081 She is the last good villain, I believe. SHe's an easy 10/10, but most of it stems from the ambiguity of her love for Rapunzel/the flower.
Honestly, I love the "villain off screen until the end." It makes me feel like the villain can't be bothered by the hero. I mostly see it in video games and cartoons/animes.
Like ATLA-- the off-screen villain is Ozai. He's the cause of a lot of the problems. But, after all the hype, he's just a dude with power.
Or the Fable games 2 and 3 (I didn't get that far in the first one/anniversary). Lucien is at the spire for the majority of the game, not too bothered by Sparrow, but actually uses him/her to his advantage.
I also like the "evil just to be evil" type of villain-- as long as it makes sense for the character. If the character is an emotionless element of chaos lacking any empathy or care for life, they don't really need a reason past their own entertainment.
The Mind Flayer from Stranger Things
@@eelio8469 Present all the way. Does not count
Thank you!!! It’s also like the way the real world works everybody talks about how nobody would it be intimidated by this person in real life but like I’m sorry you must’ve slept through history class because most of the most feared people in histor thank you!!! It’s also like the way the real world works everybody talks about how nobody would it be intimidated by this person in real life but like I’m sorry you must’ve slept through history class because most of the most feared people in history became so at least partially through indirect means
I highly recommend that you watch overly sarcastic production's trope talk on pure evil. While I do think it is over used in fiction, some people really are pure evil. Look up Ted Bundy. He did it because he was a psychopath who quite literally could not feel empathy. Like Joker, he does it for the lol's. Darth Sidious, one of the best villains in fiction, simply wanted power. That's it. And he was good at Manipulating people into letting him have it. Umbridge, from Harry Potter. Why did she do what she did? Sure, she's made out to be really loyal to Fudge, but then later she's totally dropped him and is working for the new ministry loyaly, so long as it serves her purpose. And her purpose seems to be a sense of control and/or power over other people. That and some hard core biases. Those are really simple motivations. And yet find a person who has read Harry Potter who does not absolutely despise her.
I think every type of villain has their place and saying that one villain type should never be used is constricting to say yhe least. You don't have to like it (who ever actually wrote that), that doesn't mean pure evil for evil's sake doesn't have its place.
So thank you the next comment. Hard core agree.
Tbh it's not overused as much as you think. It actually seems to be the opposite. Seems like most villains are sympathetic or morally gray
At least lately
@@StormgemThunder. Yeah people confuse "evil for the sake of being evil" with pure evil villains. I wish we had more pure evil villains because they can end up being just as strong and even stronger than "complex" ones. I've noticed a trend where every villain needs a tragic backstory or redeemable quality in order to he acclaimed as a great villian or as a good one. But that's just close minded because some villains are hard to feel bad for after everything they've done. Commits genocide and has murdered children. Man they're so evil. Has sad backstory or being raised as orphan. Man they're so sympathetic. Its just dumb
@@chinuaalibatya7345 I read that as "morally gay." 😅
I like books where there is no defined villain, where the mc isn't a hero but some one who is thrust into action and has to solve problems and where the consequences of failure are never mentioned but implied to be bad.
I was watching an old Disney movie, The Watcher in the Woods, recently, and someone pointed out that there isn't a villain in that story at all. There's just a bizarre and creepy situation where a girl mysteriously disappeared years before and some person or thing seems to be watching the other characters from woods, trying desperately to tell them what it needs them to do. At first, the characters don't know if the "watcher" is the missing girl or her ghost or maybe something that means them harm, but they can only get the answers and find the girl by doing what it tells them to do. It's suspenseful, and it's the characters dealing with the circumstances, not with a villain.
@@tracychristenson177 seems my kinda story, I'll check it out, where did you watch it?
There's the TV show The Americans where the anti-heroes are relatable, interesting, understandable people doing truly terrible things on behalf of a corrupt government for humanitarian reasons. They're not villains, they're not heroes, they're just normal-ish people doing bad things for good reasons that have unfortunate consequences.
I have an idea:
A pure evil villain that can perfectly blend into the background of everyday life that when they are revealed it makes the heroes paranoid and terrified everytime they go out of their house or somewhere they are safe, and/or never goes out anymore.
Like; the one of the friend of the MC or the MC had a routine of going to a café filled with people to order a cup of coffee/tea with/without dessert on the side, hearing the chatter, clinks of cups, and the holler of the workers in the background as their music, admist in reading a book.
Since now that they know that the villain is in the there, perfectly blended in the crowd, that it made them stop going there.
My villain is my characters talent agent
That actually sounds really terrifying and scary. There are a bunch of really bad people that can perfecting fit into the crowd without problem.
So serial killers but with extra steps.
@@RedYellowBird6889 something like that
Yoshikage Kira
"They were born bad because they have a bad gene"
Betty Cooper: The killer genes
Believe the closest thing to that in reality is a psychopath. Quite different to how books and media portrays it though.
@@MayHugger True lol. However, even though not every psychopath will go around stabbing people I still wouldn’t want to be friends or associated with one at all.
@@johnthechamp4208 Why not? They're the most likely to know what's upsetting you, and likely to be the quickest to find a solution to problems. They have incredible charisma, which would be a blast to be around.
Sure, you might just be a tool to them, but everyone uses each other all the time. What's the harm if nothing bad is happening?
@@johnthechamp4208 I'm personally of the belief that thoughts aren't what matter, actions and results are.
@@MayHugger They’re manipulative af and you’re only a chess peice in their game. I don’t want to be in a relationship with someone who literally only cares abt themselves and could just abandon me because they’re done using me.
I feel like a really good 'friend turned villain' is Morgana from Merlin, I knew what was coming but it still broke my heart. It's also so easy to understand & sympathize her which was just a double whammy :'(
No, it was too sudden. Her desire to rule and hatred of Arthur came out of nowhere.
@@925263 It wasn't as simple as that. Uther's hatred toward magicians/witches etc was a problem for her. She could never be who she really was as well as the fact that she was actually Uther's daughter. She has a half sister who is like her and will always accept her for who she is, on the other side she has a father who also loves her. However, he's too ashamed to claim her and won't accept her for who she is. It's obvious why she went down the evil route in the end. She desperately wanted someone to understand her and Morgause was the one to understand her. If it had been Merlin instead, then most likely she wouldn't have become the villain.
Secrets of the dragon sanctuary anyone?
The Emperor (Star Wars) and Sauron are great examples of evil characters who are purely evil but still great.
Yes, it's the bad knock-off versions of those iconic fantasy/sci-fy villains that are annoying. Purely evil can absolutely work if you put in the legwork to make it an interesting story...
Donald Keller thank you, as someone else in this comment said , pure evil isn’t always evil for evils sake .
@Tom Ffrench Granted, I think it's pretty clear that everything Palpatine does, he enjoys. He straight up enjoys being "evil". And the prequels are so much more fun to watch because of it.
No they are boring
Victor Hugo created two of the greatest villains ever: Frollo in HUNCHBACK OF NOTRE DAME and Javert in LES MISERABLES (although the latter is more a misguided antagonist).
Frollo was the villain in Disney' movie, but he wasn't in the book. He was a tragic figure just as much as Quasimodo, whom he had saved from an angry mob and raised with kindness and affection. Phoebus was much more cruel to Esmeralda, playing with her feeling while he was engaged to another woman and letting soldiers accuse her of witchcraft and torture her until she confessed.
@@thrillergirl021 I guess it depends on your definition of villain. In the book, Frollo may have had some sympathetic qualities, but he still does some terrible things, including laughing sadistically while Esmeralda is being burnt at the stake.
@@thrillergirl021 I was going to say the same thing. Thank you.
The Disney musical version of hunchback had one of the most sympathetic versions of Frollo.
Apparently his brother ran off with a gypsy woman and died when the entire troupe got hit with the plague.
Frollo blamed the gypsies and their godless ways for his brothers death hench his murder boner.
And Quasimodo was his brothers kid, and while Frollo didn’t love him as a nephew he was the only thing he had left of his brother.
@@kyriss12 Damn 🤯! Really?
Wouldn't it be so interesting if the protagonist is actually the villain, and the power of perspective makes his plans seem like he's the good guy? It would be pretty surprising, at least for me
I've just gotta say, the villain monologue can work really well for comedic villains! It's funny when the protagonist calls them out for being dramatic or something like that.
It can also work really well for the villains who are way too calm about their plan, the villains who think that they are the heroes. The ones who are trying to get the characters to understand them, or to get them to join their side. That can be incredible and honestly really freaking scary. Like, how are you supposed to fight a villain who won't fight, and just calmly and rationally explains everything? A villain who thinks they are saving the world, sometimes even causing the protagonist to question.
i love when authors can make you hate a villain with all your being. that’s how you know they can write a good character
Gaunter O'Dimm comes to mind for me.
@@JohnBradford14 you sir have a great taste
@@alexdakinn2495 Dude, when I found out he cursed that spoon lady in Blood and Wine, I nearly popped a blood vessel.
Umbridge. Just hearing that name makes me angry
@@TheBigMe0w you my friend are the kind person who should become president, #TheBigMe0wforpresident.
“Every fairytale needs a good old-fashioned villain”
Yes, but then the "old fashioned villain" turns out to be a misdirect and this is discovered halfway through
Actually it's "every fairytale needs a good old fashioned villain" do your research
@@mariadifranco9173 I love the reference.
Oh yes. Like having one good jokerish vilain. Like do villains grey and relatable. But have one who is just pure evil for evil sake. Some people in real life are like this, like pure unrelatable jerk. So it is good to have actually one like it. You feel good when it is happening because you relate to all the characters and when you see this old fashion villain coming. You are feeling the same fear has anyone else. And this feeling is awesome.
Moriarty...
I actually like build up and a really good presence of the villain. Throughout the book, you get a sense of what he is like and everyone talking about it, and when the villain finally appears and shows himself, you feel like you're on the verge of crapping yourself by how scary his presence is like you're in the presence of The Devil. This is why I actually really like Voldemort because whenever he shows himself in the books, the few times you see him cuz he's always working behind the scenes, all of a sudden the atmosphere is very heavy, you're imagination runs wild, and you always feel terrified cuz Harry is always terrified whenever Voldemort is in the same room as him.
I am so tempted to write a satire story where the villain tells the escaping hero, "No, don't leave yet. I'm not done with my monologue!"
It gives off megamind vibes
Dr. D from Phineas and Ferb! "He's my nemesis, I have to tell him everything!"
I'd love to write a book where in the middle of the book they have the big battle and the villian just start monologing about their plan then the hero gets saved and try to stop the viilian just to learn that said villian was lying about their plan and they completed a long time ago they were just bored and wanted to have some fun so they did all stereotipical villian stuff so the hero can come and save the world and all of that just for fun for the villian...
I know a lot of people were mad at the Steven universe villains getting a redemption arc, but I like how it’s shown to be a struggle for everyone. Steven obviously wants to show that anyone can change, almost because if he can’t change the big bad then it means he’s destined to be bad forever as well. However, other characters still have bad sides, glimpses of the big bads still come through and he has to basically help break these habits of thought. Some characters still don’t trust or feel comfortable around the big bads, etc. even though the show got cut short, you can at least see where the team wanted to go with the whole situation
Azula is my favorite showing of a gradual mental breakdown in all of fiction. Everything from her being neglected for all of those years, to her friends abandoning her, to always having to be perfect, etc. Her and Zuko, also an amazing character, and their final Agni Kai gives me chills to this day.
Edit: Everyone who’s a fans of the series should watch Hello Future Me’s Psychology of Azula video. A masterpiece.
I agree. Azula is by far my most favorite character in the series. Heck she’s my favorite villain of all time.
I hope you connect to the Avatar: The Last Airbender series. The characters are amazing and their development feels natural. And Uncle Iroh is fantastic and pure and goals.
Jasper Shifflett Leaves from the vine falling so slow
Adolpha Selrah I’m crying
I will never get over Zuko’s character development
I’ve always wanted to read a book where we’ve followed a hero as they move through the world on some quest, and there are the usual trials and tribulations; we’ve really rooted for them for the entire book. But then, it’s revealed they were the villain all along and we just didn’t realise. The clues were there all along that their actions were harming the population, but it was presented in a way where we thought at the time it was helping
The videogame Spec Ops: The Line works with that idea. It's pretty brutal, though.
I mean... there's a difference between the villain having a reason for doing what they do and a villain being justified. I like pure evil villains. E.g. Firelord Ozai from Avatar.
Thank! You! My boy was a Firelord. Fire! Lord! And he rocked it. Aang did him dirty tho.
"I'll make videos on Avatar... if i like it."
LOL idk anyone who has seen it that didn't like it. Maybe little bits of it aren't their favorite thing, but overall they like and appreciate it.
A great book with Antagonist rather than villian is "Les Miserables". "Javert" is an excellent antagonist (although some see him as villian) and you are really worried about our protagonist from him, (partly because the book is not adventure or light entertainment). I won't spoil the end just in case that someone still doesn't know how it ends. The protagonist "Jean Valjean" also has an amazing arc. You know what? Just go and read the book lol.
I watch videos every Sunday, Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday :)
Dear Authors is my favorite series, feel free to keep adding on to it. I can't wait to see more 📚
+
"Pure evil" villains are fantastic, when they are done well. A story i love contains an antagonist who was sickly and terrified, and leapt at the chance to live longer. He then killed the man who gave him the medicine, before realizing two things: he is now immortal, and will burn to ash in the sun. He spends thousands of years cutting through innocents to survive, to feed his hunger, and searching for a way to walk in the sun once again. He is evil, he became a demon, and doesn't care for the cost to achieve his goal.
Demon slayer?
Edit:
DEMON SLAYER SPOILER
What I love bout Muzan is that ppl were fighting him bc they were against his goal. Thus, they were enemies. He saw an opening that his enemy could fullfill his dream, he forgot bout being enemies and only focused on the probability of his goal coming true. Which is pretty good thought of, since they were only enemies bc they didn't share the same goal. But since Muzan can benefit from it and possibly reach his goal, it doesn't matter to him. I like it when there's no line between "good" and "bad" and that we can choose it ourselves.
I don't like Muzan, but I like how his character is written.
Le michael jackson
Muzan?
Edit: when I saw "live longer" I was like (─.─ ）
Then I saw "medicine" and "immortal" and I was like....
_Wait a damn minut-_
The Joker is a pure evil villain and he’s fantastic (I’m talking about Dark Knight and comics primarily)
Smooth criminal MJ from Demon Slayer?
It’s the Loki effect. If you can create a villain you love just as much if not more then the hero, you’ve set yourself up for an amazing story. Not all stories can handle that though, or maybe there needs to be a super evil dude behind the scenes for those characters, cuz some stories just need to have basically the devil himself as the big bad and you can’t really make those loveable or understood. It’s fun and so interesting to think about villains. They really are what makes the story come alive
Cassandra from Rapunzel's Tangled Adventure/ Tangled: The Series is my current favorite villain. She wasn't a twist villain for me bc I was Late Arrival Spoilered, but even knowing that something was coming, that betrayal hurt so much. That's exactly the emotion I hype to evoke when I publish my own fantasy stuff.
I was really disappointed when you didn't wear a villainous mustache the whole video😂
A good villlain I really like is from the tv show once upon a time is Regina, the evil queen she’s one of my fave characters and I love how there’s a reason for her being evil and I love her redemption as well. It’s so organic and natural in my opinion
Snape has a redemption arc before the story even starts, but he's still sort of mean and an intimidating antagonist. To the very end, we don't know if he was really redeemed or not. He never really becomes a good person.
He's gray all the way. From start to finish. A bit darker gray when he's a DE, then still completely gray to the end.
I don't think he ever wanted redemption and so never worked toward it and could never get it. I love the character for that.
It's refreshing to see...
@@Cassia_L This is such a good take and I completely agree. People always argue over whether he was good or evil, but why should a character have to be just either or. It's more realistic to also have characters who fall somewhere between, and characters who know they've done something wrong but still aren't necessarily seeking redemption.
You always hear the question, "Was Snape a good guy or a bad guy?" I think the answer isn't that simple...he was a bad guy, he just wasn't evil. There was one big bright spot in his childhood, and that was Lilly. He became obsessed with clinging to that memory and loathed himself for pushing her away. So, in the end, he was selfish, mean and obsessive but he wasn't the extremist that many of the other Death Eater were.
I really like the ambiguity that comes with the connection between Harry and Voldemort.
If Snape suspects that Voldemort can glimpse into Harry's mind, then he would have to be antagonistic toward Harry to protect his cover.
This is especially true during occlumancy training; until he can successfully train Harry, he has to make it look like he's intentionally sabotaging the training.
It is never clear how much of Snape's vindictive cruelty is genuine.
It is never clear if he was more a petty person begrudgingly doing right for the sake of revenge, or more a tragic hero always stuck in the role of the duplicitous spy.
That's what I find so fascinating about Snape. He is not a good person...but you kind of get why.
He helps our hero...but it isn't because he "turned good."
I'm a sucker for redemption arcs. I'm a sucker for fallen heroes. I fall onto the floor when I see them both in the crossroads of a story. That's good juice.
One of the great villain monologues I can recall is Barty Crouch Jr. in Goblet of Fire “You really think Longbottom, the witless wonder, would have given you gillyweed if I hadn’t given him the book that lead him right to it” it’s a monologue after the deed is done, and understanding that there were cogs in a greater machine behind the scene is a great addition to a plot
Avatar is amezing:
Leaves from the vine
Falling so slow
Like fragile tiny shells
Drifting in the foam
Little soldier boy
Come marching home
Brave soldier boy
Comes marching home
:'(
I have feelings that I didn’t even know I had
This has made me very sad
I LOVE when villains win. I am so tired of reading the last "battle" or confrontation and knowing that no matter the cost, no matter what, the hero is going to win. I want to be surprised by the ending and not be like "ok well now I'm just waiting for the hero to kill the villain thank you". Most of the times I genuinely don't care about the last 50-100 pages because I don't feel like the stakes are that high. I want to fear for my favorite characters. I want to think "OMG can they make it out alive???", I want to be SHOCKED. Villains just never win and that bothers me so much
Thank you for these very interesting videos that make us think and brainstorm Merphy!
I love this as well! So many stories where there is a villain (I rarely read them anymore, because of this), you just know that the heroes will win in the end, and they will achieve all their goals and eveything will be good. If they're gonna defeat the villain, then at least make it so that's not a satisfying ending for everyone - the twists where that villain wasn't the actual villain, for example, and there was someone else behind the scenes all along that has just gotten so much stronger because the heroes killed who they thought were the villain, or something like that. Basically, I apparently don't like happy endings 😅
If you love seeing villains win just watch the news.
I think there's something to be said for mustache-twirling villains in books with a comedic bent. Skulduggery Pleasant does this very well. For Lord of the Rings, I think Sauron and, by extension, Morgoth are the perfect choice for the story that was being told. I think that a villain needs to serve the story just as much as any other character and should not, in fact, be complex for the sake of complexity.
Exactly
Skulduggery Pleasant has the BEST villains and plot twists. My favourite childhood series
It's so nice coming back to these vids hearing Merph say "If I like Avatar" after seeing her react to all the seasons, Korra and the books and comics and is now a die hard Avatar fan.
My favorite redemption arc is probably Shadow of the Conqueror, by Shad Brooks. The protagonist is the villain going through redemption. He was a truly reprehensible human being. He was actually evil. He faces it, and actively tries to be a good person. He doesn't shy away from the truth that nobody has any reason to trust him, and he frankly deserves any sentence handed out to him for his crimes. It's gut wrenching, and a great story.
YES! Watch Avatar! Love everything about it! Such a good show 😍
I'm going to be bold and say: Avatar: The Last Airbender is one of the best stories OF ALL TIME. Redemption arc doesn't even say enough. Such amazing characters. SO GOOD.
I'm watching the series for the first time (halfway through Book Three) and I strongely agree
IKR
Yes and Zuko is one of the greatest characters in media.
I am so glad someone else thinks this
Zuko and garras redemption arcs were chef kiss
Coming to SMART villains, I love Light Yagami from Death Note.
Depends on how you choose to define smart. The rules of Death Note ensure he could operate with impunity but his ego gets in the way. If it didn't then there wouldn't be a story, but it's also not very smart, operationally.
@@futurestoryteller Light being smart is not debatable. His sanity is what left him, not his brain.
big pet peeve of mine is when you have an interesting villain throughout the story... and it turns out, close to the end, that they were being manipulated by someone else, and the chessmaster is first introduced AT THE END OF THE STORY, giving them no time to develop
and the character/s they controlled were far more interesting bc they actually got screentime and development.
please, if you want to pull off a chessmaster, establish everything as early as possible, and then play mindgames with the audience with foreshadowing. because when the chessmaster trope is pulled well off, boy can be soooo good
also another pet peeve is when villains go against their established traits just so the protag can conveniently get away w/o a scratch
"I'm evil because i am evil" = no
"I never had any friends, wah wah" = no
Something in the middle = yes
"I was in the third grade; people treated me like a criminal... BECAUSE I KILLED SOMEBODY!"
"I don't care. I do what I want."
Hitler was plain evil.
Sure, I think he thought he was right.
The fact I actually don’t know his reasons doesn’t make me less scared of him.
Fictional villains can be like that too
exactly, i don't understand why every villain needs a drawn out backstory. some of those most bone chilling villains are mysterious as hell.
Grayson Alexander very true!
Granted, it isn’t the easiest thing to write, but once you see the actions and consequences of the villain through the story he becomes bigger and bigger on your mind, the challange there is to find a way to keep that fear up when we finally do meet him/her.
The first season of Daredevil is a great example of this. I knew I was scared shitless of the kingpin waaay before he came on screen.
You know how the heroes in Lord of the Rings see orcs? That's basically how Hitler saw non-white people. The Nazis in general pretty much thought they were heroes of justice fighting inhuman hordes of monsters. Which is unbelievably ironic, but the point is that they legitimately thought they were the good guys, because their worldview was just that warped and twisted.
@@imygurl08 hi
Sure fictional villains can be like that too, but why not add depth?
With respect to Hitler, it's hard to imagine that those beneath him all thought he was pure evil yet voted him into power then followed, at least mostly (some Germans tried to undermine the Nazis), his orders. If your big bad villain has henchmen, how did they get them? If the henchmen are pure evil just like the main villain why are they working together instead of fighting each other? If the villain is solo, how does he pose a threat by himself? If he's that powerful did he have a mentor? Did his mentor know he was pure evil? If so why did he get trained? If the mentor is pure evil why did he train anyone at all? If he didn't notice when did the villain become evil? After the training? Doesn't seem very believable that someone would flip like that without some sort of traumatic event(s). Etc, etc. etc. So many questions to ask. There's just as much ground to explore with your antag as there is with your protag.
I think adding depth and complexity not only makes a villain better, but you also need a certain amount to make them believable.
I'm reading a HP fanfiction (To Fight the Coming Darkness by Jbern) that's basically Grim Dark Harry Potter after book 5.
And the Voldemort in it is SO, so smart! He's ruthless, cunning but also ACTUALLY knowledgeable in the Dark Art (we see almost no evidence of that in the books except the Horcrux, his resurrection and Inferi). He knows how to play politics. Made a nice speech about how he wants to save the wizarding world, not enslave it, and had some good points^^
And there are so many deaths and grief, it actually feels like a war is going on, instead of a few duels here and there.
I want that for my villain. That was the Voldemort we deserved.
I'm saving this as a reference for my next fanfiction-binge :D
@@keeprockin69 it's over 1000 pages long, so I hope you like them long. Never boring, though ^^
I'm pretty sure I read this years ago and really liked it. Some fanfic are so good.
@@Dustyrosepetal wouldn't be surprised, it's a re-read for me. It's pretty old ^^
@@Cassia_L I love them long! Those are usually the very best ones :D
Also I think you made my day when you said you’re going to make videos about watching Avatar
Count Olaf, an example that nobody is good or bad. Violet and Klaus captured Esmé Squalor to save Sunny. Sooo...
I am an author who is looking for tips to make my stories more substantial and this is definitely the you tube channel for me. I am already seeing the flaws in my writing. thank you Merphy Napier, and everyone who comments. you are all a huge help.
Fun fact: "the "deus" in "deus ex machnia" is pronounced "DAY-oos" not "deuce." Thank you, and carry on!
Yeah noticed that gave me a laugh though😂
Actually, it's:
(Classical) IPA(key): /ˈde.us/, [ˈd̪e.ʊs]
(Ecclesiastical) IPA(key): /ˈde.us/, [ˈd̪ɛː.us]
(Vulgar) IPA(key): /ˈdɛ.us/, [ˈdʲo.os]
Did she pronounce "ex machina" correctly?
How precise
Thank you. I actually rewatched that part to correct her.....despite Merphy actually not hearing me LoL
Regarding “off-screen,” what about Sauron? One of the greatest villains ever, and we never actually meet him. His evil is reflected in the way his existence alters and influences Middle Earth around him.
This is a good counterexample, but I would still argue that feeling his presence indirectly doesn't count as being off-screen. I'm talking more specifically about situations where villains are presented as a threat without enough build-up to justify it.
Indeed. He is off-screen, but he is present - mostly through the ring itself obviously, but also with the Nazgul and later the Mouth of Sauron, and as you said, in the way Middle Earth as a whole is affected. Having him on screen, or god forbid even in a face off with the protagonists, would destroy everything that works about him.
No, he sucks. No one picks him over Saruman or Gollum.
The thumbnail is everything I didn’t know that I needed
5:14 the only story I've seen where the bad guy is literally introduced in the first few episodes (it was an anime) is Demon Slayer. Like Kibutsuji Muzan is the holy bad guy of the story but he was introduced in like the 6th or so episode
KEEPERS OF THE LOST CITIES!!! Shannon Messenger does an AMAZING job with the villains in this series and gets you genuinely interested in whats happening and if the good guys are going to win or not.
Scenario where the villain shoots first, then as the hero is dying he can dump his exposition on him before walking away triumphantly!
But doesn’t the hero survive those scenarios? It turns into a “should’ve killed you when I had the chance” type thing.
The joker is evil, he is categorized as a force of nature because he has no arch but create chaos. It is one archetype of villain which I particularly like
Insanity does not equal evil.
@@skaetur1 Yes it does if your insanity causes you to do evil things.
@@skaetur1 in at least some of his portrayals he seems insane but is actually supposed to be extremely sane which is why he's the way he is. He's too smart and see the world for what it is
@@skaetur1 There are Joker stories where he knows full well what he is doing and could stop at a drop at a hat. It's a conscious decision to keep going because he can. Batman, local authorities, and Federal just keep letting him live so he goes on and on.
@@skaetur1 Sometimes we call evil insanity because we don't understand how some people can get enjoyment out of evil acts. But what we MUCH be careful of is that we don't excuse evil as if it's a mental disorder. In your five words, you showed the danger of this. Joker is an evil character. He's not necessarily insane just because those of us who consider ourselves good people don't understand how he can enjoy hurting people. He's fully aware of what he's doing, and enjoys the power. He's evil.
To play devils advocate, I do think there is a place for “purely evil” villains in fantasy. Real world examples of pure evil that come to mind are most serial killers, but what makes serial killers interesting to us is their sociopathy. If a villain is going to be pure evil with no redeeming qualities, then I think we as readers could at least make do with an exploration of the villain’s psyche. It’ll scare and intrigue us.
I do, however, prefer villains who could be the hero of their own story, it’s much more interesting.
Dude, I'm working on a book where it's placed in our world except there are monsters. The monsters have their own secluded towns and cities where they don't bother people. Albeit there are some rogues who go crazy and attack humans. Well, one day, a group of monster hunters secretly infiltrate the town. A hunter charms the MC to date them because the hunter wants to learn more about their weaknesses through observation. Anyways, in his eyes, this is justified because he's been taught since a young age that monsters are, well, monsters. Would that be considered a villain?
Since when are all serial killers sociopaths?
The mind slayer from Stranger Things
Flayer
Named after the common nickname for illithids in dnd
Probably named it that cause it’s a giant squid, and the illithids have squid heads
That’s where most of the similarities end
Hell, the mind flayer from stranger things doesn’t even suck out brains
Pure evil for the sake of being evil is actually my favorite type of villain. It’s the scariest and most realistic to me. When you know that a villain knows they’re wrong, but they hate the protagonists and enjoy hurting them just because they can. That’s certainly the type of person who has hurt me most IRL and is most likely to in the future. Because what do you do, when they’re more powerful and can’t be reasoned with? The stakes are sky high!
Yes I love LOVE LOVE villains that go by their own code of honour/"moral values." These can be completely twisted, but they have their own rules that they play by and respect, and things they absolutely *wouldn't* do; they're not just unhinged and chaotic.
I absolutely adore a cool, composed and calculated villain like that - and especially (as a bonus) when they gradually starts losing it, they're driven and drifting further away from where they started, their initial collectedness, motivations and code gradually breaks down, the facade starts to crack little by little, the void gets bigger and by the end they're *actually* unhinged... I love me a borderline insane villain, but there has to be a build up, reasons, gradation. They always, *always* have to have a strong personality and character motivations. (Some examples that come to mind are Azula from ATLA or Lord Viren from The Dragon Prince)