I haven't listened to this excerpt yet since I am in the car, but I must say that I am eternally grateful that not only did I live through the historic instance where Lohengrin O uploaded Mdm. Tebaldi - but I also lived through an even rarer occasion, that I still cannot believe truly happened; Lohengrin O uploading Cossotto! Everyone, you are lucky to be able to experience this.
I listened to videos of Cossotto yesterday but hadn’t found this. Thank you! I shall listen to this sublime excerpt many times, I think. It reminds us that Cossotto was a deity herself, and held her own among the greatest goddesses of the century.
Soy argentino y presencié esa histórica función. Tengo setenta y un años. Jamás olvidaré esa maravillosa experiencia. AMBAS refulgieron tanto Sutherland como Cossotto en un mismo y sublime, excelso rango vocal y artístico. AMBAS A LA MISMA ALTURA. Gracias, Joan y Fiorenza!!!!!!!
How many people would *win* a volume battle with Sutherland? Corelli in Huguenots is audible but doesn't overwhelm her, more so in Faust but that could be a studio trick. Maybe Nilsson could have...
if she sang in full forte (like she does in one of her Esclarmondes?) none... she isn't even trying here... there is a scene I have posted from her Trovatore, she watches the tenor-baritone singing then slowly turns towards the audience and unleashes a moderately high note which changes the Volume of the entire scene covering everything without even trying
Grob-Prandl would have drowned Sutherland out, but I can't think of any operatic duets they could have sung together. Maybe Euryanthe/Eglantine, with Joan in the name part? (In Joan's early Wagnerian phase)
@@LohengrinO Her D'oreste D'aiace also displays some great loudness. It's like Brunhilde or Turandot singing Mozart. When someone just let her be (instead of repressing her like her husband), she unleashed a huge wagnerian power and it sounded so fucking natural and easy. I think that was Sutherland's real and natural voice size.
La stupenda - one singer cossotto couldnt upstage no matter how hard she tried. One of my favorite anecdotes of joans is from back stage during her farewell performance of huguenots when she tells the tale of how her horse let rip an enormous fart in cossottos face. All things said though, though we may hate to admit it, she was an excellent mezzo.
Sono solo un'appassionato di lirica,ma questa splendida voce, e' quasi pari, per bellezza, a quella della compianta sig.ra Caballe'.Infatti gli applausi...
Sutherland’s Norma doesn’t stir me the way Callas’, Caballe’s, or Ponselle’s does. She was a fine bel canto stylist- probably the best- but I think she was more suited for a Lyric Coloratura repertoire.
....amo questa Artista nel vero senso della parola, Fiorenza Cossotto è una delle grandi mezzosoprano che abbiano calcato le scene teatrali!! La sua potente voce è specialmente I suoi acuti mi inebriano.. si ha un modo tutto suo di cantare ed io avverto in lei delle particolarità inspiegabilmente che non saprei descrivere!! Grazie caro Lohengrin0 per averla proposta in questo momento, perché oggi sarebbe il Compleanno del mio Corelli.. e la Sig. ra Cossotto è stata una delle Artiste che ha vissuto artisticamente insieme al mio Idolo. Ciao.. Ciaed un abbraccio affettuoso da Elsa.
@@hildegerdhaugen7864No... I LOVE people who say few words or no words at all... but I really cant predict which one will make u comment and Im glad that neither can you :D
Leyendo un artículo sobre Fiorenza Cossotto en internet, dice que se graduó como la mejor de su clase, y aquí es la mejor Adalgisa que yo eh escuchado... BRAVA!!!
The trio, where Cossotto attempted a B while Sutherland killed her with a rousing high D. The South Americans said Sutherland's top D brought them rain.
If u notice she covers up Fiorenza with the smoothest sound while singing most relaxed and without even trying, a unique phenomenon of Volume (besides an unbelievable phenomenon of Agility)
I could be hearing it less than accurately, but it seems to me that La Stupenda goes slightly flat on the high C, and on the repeat, Madame Cossotto's high C sounds definitely more like a high B. They both experience pitch problems on this note.
@@Abigayl1950 It's possible that I am wrong. My sense of pitch is not absolute. I've never known Sutherland to have pitch problems, which may have made my judgement incorrect. I'll have to listen to it again. At any rate, it's still pretty impressive singing. However, I am convinced that Cossotto's top C is flat, which is not really such a big deal.
Very luxuriously beautiful middle voice... That is sort of it. Even if she wasn't Cosshoeto I'd still say she lacked some of that Italian chest in her voice...
N. Lidar Cossotto seemed to be more of an exponent of the German school, where chest voice is taken into head voice (see Baltsa, Ludwig etc). But I hear a definite Italianate quality in middle voice and her phrasing.
chosentenore I think you are right. She was what one of my conservatory professors used to call a 'lazy soprano', like Agnes Baltsa and Frederica von Stade. Baltsa actually got her diploma as a dramatic soprano, but went into the mezzo repertoire instead.
Really any voice no matter how high it is....it should be able to successfully developed a full chest voice. Once fully developed, what determines the voice type is the amount of beauty and presence they have the most in a particular register. And to me she shines the most in her upper middle and upper register. A real mezzo voice for me is Oralia Dominguez with an extremely present and beautiful low register but the entire voice was gold. Way more presence than Cosotto....especially in the low, lower middle and middle as well.
Yeah, Cosotto struggled with actual squillo in my opinion. I don’t hear it! Again, she does not have much actual presence in her low or low-middle voice.
if u notice dame Joan is not even trying to sing loud and she covering Fiorenza up... but Fiorenza's C6 is stunning nevertheless, one of the very few who sang it live... but still, not better than Giulietta's
Lohengrin O nobody’s is better than Giulia’s (as Maria called her) And yeah Dame Joan isn’t even trying, which kinda is par for the course of her Norma especially in the duets... she is sleepwalking lol.
I was astonished to listen to her carefully all day yesterday… she was (*puke*) Magnificent! (btw u HAVE to read this interview: www.belcantosociety.org/store/audio/musicdownloads/norma-callas-del-monaco-simionato-2/ discovered by Manolis)
@@LohengrinO What a beautiful interview with Simionato! When Zucker asks 'What were the reasons for the decline in Callas' voice?', she replies with one word only: 'Onassis', confirming what we all had already suspected. Later she says, of Maria, 'If we wanted to talk, we talked. If we didn't want to talk, we remained silent'. This proves that Simionato and Callas were bosom friends. With true friends, one can go for hours without conversing, as the love between the two is more profound than words. Only with casual or superficial acquaintances does one feel pressure to keep talking, as there is no deep feeling to carry through the silences. Also, in reference to the poison-in-the-soda-bottle incident: it is my opinion that Callas' mother, who hated her, did this hoping to permanently damage Maria's voice, or even kill her. The mother and the sister both wrote books about Callas, the mother in the (50s? 60s?), and the sister in the 80s. The sister is rather more circumspect in her criticisms, but the mother's limited intellect and lack of sophistication prevented any such tact on her part, and her book reads like a hatchet job on an ugly, selfish, ungrateful daughter who brought her nothing but grief. She conveniently omits pertinent details, most notably her repeated attempts to pimp Maria out to the Nazi officers during the war. It is unfortunate that the outtakes from the Simionato interview were not included in Zucker's film. Thank you, Lohengrin and Manoli! ❤
wow I just heard Fiorenza's Db6 in the sleepwalking scene of Lady M... she almost cracks it and it is studio... she doesn't go for the pianissimo and still she goes screamish and almost cracks it...woooow that note, what a nightmare
@@LohengrinO I am convinced she was backed by the Mafia. I cannot otherwise account for the long, successful career of a woman whose only achievement was to sing loud, Louder, LOUDEST, with no finesse or artistry. I hasten to add that this is my opinion only, and I don't expect others to concur with it.
I haven't listened to this excerpt yet since I am in the car, but I must say that I am eternally grateful that not only did I live through the historic instance where Lohengrin O uploaded Mdm. Tebaldi - but I also lived through an even rarer occasion, that I still cannot believe truly happened; Lohengrin O uploading Cossotto! Everyone, you are lucky to be able to experience this.
ahahahahahahhahahahahahahahah Only one left in the list unposted :p
@@LohengrinO The sultana... of the screamers!
Lohengrin O .... now I’m curious.
@@LohengrinO and she shall remain unposted I sincerely hope..
Well one thing Co-shoot-her did have that Renata didn’t have... a high register.
I listened to videos of Cossotto yesterday but hadn’t found this. Thank you! I shall listen to this sublime excerpt many times, I think. It reminds us that Cossotto was a deity herself, and held her own among the greatest goddesses of the century.
Cuántas estupideces dicen ...por Dios piensen antes de escribir ...a Fiorenza no había quien pudiera con su talento vocal !
Soy argentino y presencié esa histórica función. Tengo setenta y un años. Jamás olvidaré esa maravillosa experiencia. AMBAS refulgieron tanto Sutherland como Cossotto en un mismo y sublime, excelso rango vocal y artístico. AMBAS A LA MISMA ALTURA.
Gracias, Joan y Fiorenza!!!!!!!
How many people would *win* a volume battle with Sutherland? Corelli in Huguenots is audible but doesn't overwhelm her, more so in Faust but that could be a studio trick. Maybe Nilsson could have...
if she sang in full forte (like she does in one of her Esclarmondes?) none... she isn't even trying here... there is a scene I have posted from her Trovatore, she watches the tenor-baritone singing then slowly turns towards the audience and unleashes a moderately high note which changes the Volume of the entire scene covering everything without even trying
Grob-Prandl would have drowned Sutherland out, but I can't think of any operatic duets they could have sung together. Maybe Euryanthe/Eglantine, with Joan in the name part? (In Joan's early Wagnerian phase)
I have uploaded that incredible duet
@@LohengrinTheo I adore that entire opera.
@@LohengrinO Her D'oreste D'aiace also displays some great loudness. It's like Brunhilde or Turandot singing Mozart. When someone just let her be (instead of repressing her like her husband), she unleashed a huge wagnerian power and it sounded so fucking natural and easy. I think that was Sutherland's real and natural voice size.
La stupenda - one singer cossotto couldnt upstage no matter how hard she tried. One of my favorite anecdotes of joans is from back stage during her farewell performance of huguenots when she tells the tale of how her horse let rip an enormous fart in cossottos face. All things said though, though we may hate to admit it, she was an excellent mezzo.
Ah yes, the horse named George and the "great passage of wind." :D
Yes Cossotta had a great instrument and was a formidable singer. However I often felt that she tended to oversing, ie sing too loud
Cossotto voice was huge, Sutherland in the upper register was really crear, but here You can listen Cossotto way bigger
@@shahabispahani3273 she had a huge voice
@@jiwanhawkyeah i’m not sure what the title reallt meant when it says she looses the volume battle? she’s louder the whole time here
Sono solo un'appassionato di lirica,ma questa splendida voce, e' quasi pari, per bellezza, a quella della compianta sig.ra Caballe'.Infatti gli applausi...
Sutherland’s Norma doesn’t stir me the way Callas’, Caballe’s, or Ponselle’s does. She was a fine bel canto stylist- probably the best- but I think she was more suited for a Lyric Coloratura repertoire.
....amo questa Artista nel vero senso della parola, Fiorenza Cossotto è una delle grandi mezzosoprano che abbiano calcato le scene teatrali!! La sua potente voce è specialmente I suoi acuti mi inebriano.. si ha un modo tutto suo di cantare ed io avverto in lei delle particolarità inspiegabilmente che non saprei descrivere!! Grazie caro Lohengrin0 per averla proposta in questo momento, perché oggi sarebbe il Compleanno del mio Corelli.. e la Sig. ra Cossotto è stata una delle Artiste che ha vissuto artisticamente insieme al mio Idolo. Ciao.. Ciaed un abbraccio affettuoso da Elsa.
Amazing.
I can never but never predict to which post of mine u shall comment :D Can you?
@@LohengrinO Nope, but I try to listen through everything you load up. Do I really need to say I love most of it? lol.
@@hildegerdhaugen7864No... I LOVE people who say few words or no words at all... but I really cant predict which one will make u comment and Im glad that neither can you :D
@@LohengrinO I try to comment on everything and by that show I have listen to it, though.
Due divine della lirica.
🌹
Leyendo un artículo sobre Fiorenza Cossotto en internet, dice que se graduó como la mejor de su clase, y aquí es la mejor Adalgisa que yo eh escuchado... BRAVA!!!
Is this from the 1969 Teatro Colon production? The one where Joan also embarrassed Cossotto when she tried to outsing her in "Perfido!"?
The trio, where Cossotto attempted a B while Sutherland killed her with a rousing high D.
The South Americans said Sutherland's top D brought them rain.
What year was this? Dame Sutherland sounds glorious.
If u notice she covers up Fiorenza with the smoothest sound while singing most relaxed and without even trying, a unique phenomenon of Volume (besides an unbelievable phenomenon of Agility)
1969.
I could be hearing it less than accurately, but it seems to me that La Stupenda goes slightly flat on the high C, and on the repeat, Madame Cossotto's high C sounds definitely more like a high B. They both experience pitch problems on this note.
not to my ears though
@@Abigayl1950 It's possible that I am wrong. My sense of pitch is not absolute. I've never known Sutherland to have pitch problems, which may have made my judgement incorrect. I'll have to listen to it again.
At any rate, it's still pretty impressive singing. However, I am convinced that Cossotto's top C is flat, which is not really such a big deal.
Very luxuriously beautiful middle voice... That is sort of it. Even if she wasn't Cosshoeto I'd still say she lacked some of that Italian chest in her voice...
'Cosshoeto'...😂😂😂...you are wicked, Nuri!
@@jasonhurd4379 ..Sì, mi chiamano il diavolo, ma il mio nome è Nuri..
@@NLidar La storia tua è breve...
N. Lidar Cossotto seemed to be more of an exponent of the German school, where chest voice is taken into head voice (see Baltsa, Ludwig etc). But I hear a definite Italianate quality in middle voice and her phrasing.
EXQUISITA
Sutherland fantastica e sublime...Cossotto non altrettanto limpida e buona anche se qui molto in forma vocalmente
I believe she was an underdeveloped Spinto soprano. She has ring in her voice BUT she does NOT have enough squillo for the Italian repertorio.
chosentenore I think you are right. She was what one of my conservatory professors used to call a 'lazy soprano', like Agnes Baltsa and Frederica von Stade. Baltsa actually got her diploma as a dramatic soprano, but went into the mezzo repertoire instead.
but I hear a good chest voice no?
@@LohengrinO Which one are you talking about? Cossotto?
Really any voice no matter how high it is....it should be able to successfully developed a full chest voice. Once fully developed, what determines the voice type is the amount of beauty and presence they have the most in a particular register. And to me she shines the most in her upper middle and upper register. A real mezzo voice for me is Oralia Dominguez with an extremely present and beautiful low register but the entire voice was gold. Way more presence than Cosotto....especially in the low, lower middle and middle as well.
Yeah, Cosotto struggled with actual squillo in my opinion. I don’t hear it! Again, she does not have much actual presence in her low or low-middle voice.
I like later on in this performance when Mrs. Unmusical tries to sing a high B (which doesn’t fit at all) against Joan’s D6 and gets her ass kicked.
if u notice dame Joan is not even trying to sing loud and she covering Fiorenza up... but Fiorenza's C6 is stunning nevertheless, one of the very few who sang it live... but still, not better than Giulietta's
Lohengrin O nobody’s is better than Giulia’s (as Maria called her)
And yeah Dame Joan isn’t even trying, which kinda is par for the course of her Norma especially in the duets... she is sleepwalking lol.
Stop talking like a fool!
We all hate Cossotto... but she was an incredible mezzo in her prime.
I was astonished to listen to her carefully all day yesterday… she was (*puke*) Magnificent! (btw u HAVE to read this interview: www.belcantosociety.org/store/audio/musicdownloads/norma-callas-del-monaco-simionato-2/ discovered by Manolis)
@@LohengrinO What a beautiful interview with Simionato! When Zucker asks 'What were the reasons for the decline in Callas' voice?', she replies with one word only: 'Onassis', confirming what we all had already suspected. Later she says, of Maria, 'If we wanted to talk, we talked. If we didn't want to talk, we remained silent'. This proves that Simionato and Callas were bosom friends. With true friends, one can go for hours without conversing, as the love between the two is more profound than words. Only with casual or superficial acquaintances does one feel pressure to keep talking, as there is no deep feeling to carry through the silences. Also, in reference to the poison-in-the-soda-bottle incident: it is my opinion that Callas' mother, who hated her, did this hoping to permanently damage Maria's voice, or even kill her. The mother and the sister both wrote books about Callas, the mother in the (50s? 60s?), and the sister in the 80s. The sister is rather more circumspect in her criticisms, but the mother's limited intellect and lack of sophistication prevented any such tact on her part, and her book reads like a hatchet job on an ugly, selfish, ungrateful daughter who brought her nothing but grief. She conveniently omits pertinent details, most notably her repeated attempts to pimp Maria out to the Nazi officers during the war. It is unfortunate that the outtakes from the Simionato interview were not included in Zucker's film. Thank you, Lohengrin and Manoli! ❤
wow I just heard Fiorenza's Db6 in the sleepwalking scene of Lady M... she almost cracks it and it is studio... she doesn't go for the pianissimo and still she goes screamish and almost cracks it...woooow that note, what a nightmare
@@LohengrinO I am convinced she was backed by the Mafia. I cannot otherwise account for the long, successful career of a woman whose only achievement was to sing loud, Louder, LOUDEST, with no finesse or artistry. I hasten to add that this is my opinion only, and I don't expect others to concur with it.
Jason Hurd that was the thing I took the most from it too... one word response: “Onassis”