There's a big reveal happening next week so I wanted to talk some stuff that GW need to think ahead for the future of Old World and not make the same mistakes they did for Fantasy! Let's discuss!
For someone that has never played Warhammer Fantasy, and that has no interest in AoS or 40k, this is all very exciting. I cannot wait for anything to come out: old, new, books, it doesn’t matter. I still cannot believe that they just literally blew up this amazing world full of stories, characters, and a fully developed history. (I found out about it all in 2018, well after the End Times.) So many people had invested into it, both literally and emotionally, it must be bittersweet to see them bringing it all back, like a big “uh oh, we shouldn’t have done that”, but for someone new to the hobby it’s fantastic.
For a specific example I'll give you this: Our gaming group was 28 players strong, mostly meeting up and playing every other Sunday afternoon. When WFB finished/killed the game with their moronic 'End Times', our group dwindled down to 7 players including myself..... then, by year's end, everyone shifted over to 3 other tabletop games, the most played being Kings of War, and never looked back. Our former group now mainly gets together for board games on Sundays, with an average attendance of ~8-10 players.... Yup, Games Workshop shot themselves in the foot and imo never recovered - at least not with fantasy. (we rarely gamed 40K) Let's see how Old World does - waiting for a peek at the rules.
I mostly played 40k on Tabletop and specifically Eldar/Dark Eldar. If they make a new model for Malekith/Morathi/Tyrion/etc I'm getting a whole fantasy army of elves.
I hope they dont sell regiments of 10 and then state in the rules you need 12 to play them, i really hated that selling scheme, people started making their own rules.
I hated that system. I bought 16 models and needed 20. Tried to put a 40x40mm base as a unit filler. Looked like crap. Even to this day I have 21 storm vermin in my three units, instead of 20. Because you needed that extra foookin blister.
100% 🙌 Galen and Doralia ven Denst are two models I'd like. But they are absolutely insanely priced at at €45 for just the two of them. I will never pay that ridiculous price no matter how good the minis are.
I will die WHEN Mordheim is announced. I can't wait for fantasy to return. But Mordheim brings back a million memories. And it's still so popular GW are obviously bringing it back. Can not wait.
@@scepteredisle unfortunately neither of those games are as big as mordheim. Mordheim is fantast necromunda, and look how popular the relaunch of Necro was.
I’d love mordeheim, I never got the chance to play. They won’t lower the prices. The old Lotr models get regular price increases and the made to order costs are criminal
"It's not that I don't trust Games Workshop" ... that one got me. How could anyone that has paid even minimal attention have any trust in GW? Fans of any of their games should be familiar with being screwed over.
Despite it still being an awesome looking mini the Poison Globadier really needs a new model. Its a truly ancient sculpt. Also considering the Empire Militia unit was the base human warband for Mordheim gives the possibility of Mordheim being added as a skirmish supliment for the Old World.
On the subject of mini games, Warhammer Quest going back to the old world would be amazing. The Cursed City minis are exquisite and so fun to paint. A core game with new models and rules, and expansions for skaven, night goblins, vampires and chaos cultists would be amazing.
I really hope they tweak how magic works. In 8th ed. it was insane! A single even slightly lucky spell could easily wipe out most of an elite infantry unit. On the flip side, you could be so unlucky with magic, that not only did you end up wasting points on a wizard; you also killed a unit of your own in the process.. I know there's a bit of charm to how wacky it was, but it really needs *some* changes xD
I guess most important stuff is for GW : "Dont be greedy, work for long term". I mean we all know GW is pricing like mad but i guess if they pick up many ppl its gonna be better way then milk few. We all want good game and big player base i guess so if they gona be to greedy at begining they can destrowy game for many beginers...
Games workshop Will NOT lower costs. They never have and never will. In fact they price increased their old kits just as much as their new kits. If they keep this system old world will die at launch. As everyone will buy stl files or 3rd party minis for $100 for pretty much a full army. However GW can combat this buy increasing value like they did with 30k. 20 tacts at $70 is by no means cheap but the old kit for 10 was $50. I want them to do this for the old kits. Take the empire warrior box of 10 minis for $35. Make it 30 for $70. Suddenly they get a huge mark up of profits, still increase costs and increase volume and value for the consumer. Its a perfect win win. I just hope to the gods, their mindless greed does not destroy them.
I want GW to confirm Chaos Dwarfs for Sigmar and Old World AND that these models will be plastic and not finecast crap. It was crazy expensive to collect Chaos Dwarfs from Forgeworld back in the day. I very much want to play them again in Sigmar and Old World.
The best looking AOS faction being squatted was a terrible decision. Offer better discount offers and people will skip out on army boxes to support their favorite factions.
Totally Agree 6th ed had the best lore friendly armies - harder to balance but GW are bad at that. I really hope we get alot of new models for the different era. sadly I really can;t see GW not charing a premium for everything - despite all the good points you make.
Some of us do want metal miniatures, for me the best news about all of the Old World stuff so far has been that we are getting some old metal miniatures back in production! Also old plastic kits, which is great. I would personally prefer them to just release older models and not even the ones they had in 8th edition, but the ones from 6th ed and older. Anyway, some of us actually do prefer metal miniatures - at least for older sculpts. I doubt I'll buy any new sculpts anyway, but I'll definitely buy a lot of the old kits going back into production.
While I am super hyped for Cathay, something else I want to see is how existing factions get "localized" in their enviroment. For example, in TWW3 there is a Wood Elf glade in Cathay and I would love to see how they are different than their Athel Lauren cousins using more bamboos and maybe drawing insperation from IRL local cultures in South China/Vietnam. Another example could be the Lustrian Dwarves and how perhaps a little bit of Lizardmen influence seeps in and they now use Lizardmen-like maces instead of Hammers or how their Slayers wear dino scales. I know there are people who are going to say "oh but they're all very traditional races who wouldn't diverge that much" but if Norse Dwarves can have a unique look and the Vampire Coasts exist as seperate from Vampire Counts, why not. Plus it would just be so cool to see it. Asian Wood Elves, Amazonian/Incan Dwarves, Congolese Lizardmen (Southlands), Russian/Northern Skaven (Hellpit), actually seeing how Beastmen and Greenskins adapt to their enviroments, there's just so much possibility.
wasnt it already stated that base sizes will be on the unit datasheet in the article? It is annoying that bases are changing. i have 100s of skeletons to rebase
Those are my predictions: Empire: I expect new basic troops. And new characters. Bretonia: I expect a lot of new things. Almost all the metal units. And new characters. Wood Elves: Expect several elven units like glade guard, cavalry and hawk riders. Probably new Orion or the sexy sisters with the dragon. High Elves: Expect new units like common troops, spearmen, archers and silverhelms. Maybe Tyrion and Teclis. Dark Elves: Dont expect units soon. When the time comes, i expect spearmen, sorceress, and MALEKITH Dwarves: I dont think fireslayers will be the new updated slayers. We will have new slayers, also miners and some basic troops. Tomb kings: New basic troops. Skeleton warriors, Archers, Chariots and Ushabtis. And Settra. Plis. Give me a new Settra. Vampire Counts: Dont expect almost anything. They have been totally updated with AoS and we have tons of new models of everything we want. Orcs and Goblins: Eventually we will have common orcs and maybe common goblins. Night goblins have been totally updated in AoS and we will use those models. New badass orc warchief. Ogre Kingdoms: New models like yeties but not soon. Skaven: We will have new things, but not very soon. Chaos: I think we will have the option monogod armies, mixing demons, warriors and maybe beastmen, but only in monogod. Daemons of Chaos: Dont expect updates soon but eventually we will have some demons updated. Warriors of Chaos: Dont expect updates soon. There are a lot of new minis in AoS that will be used. Maybe, new barbarian cavalry. Beastmen: We will have new units not very late. I also expect things like khornegors, pestigors etc. The first "enemies" in the Old World will be Orcs, Beastmen and Tomb kings, also Vampires but we wont have anything new here. The first "good guys" will be Bretonia, Empire, Wood Elves, High Elves and Dwarves. After that: Chaos invasion with Kislev After that: Chaos Dwarves and Ogre Kingdoms with Cathay. Maybe some daemons of chaos of Tzeentch.
I hope they create a split in the timeline sometime around IC 2523 or a few years before that so that the end times can be averted and Warhammer fantasy can eventually go on beyond Archaon without being damned to become Age of Sigmar. I don’t have a problem with Age of Sigmar continuing but Warhammer fantasy shouldn’t be trapped in time never being able to go beyond IC 2523.
I truly do think that if they sell the old minis with a premium price point this will immediately flop. No way are they stupid enough to do it even if it's money hubgry GW
What do people think the chances of Greenskins having Black Orcs in their roster for Warhammer the Old World are? When did the Chaos Dwarfs first create them? I don't remember them being around at the time of Gorbad Ironclaw's Waaagh!
Personally, I like idiosyncratic lore details like that that are creative and weave interesting angles into the world-building. I remember the original CD army book and the creation of Black Orcs as well as the use of Hobgoblins and thought it was a cool addition to the idea Dwarves and Orcs/Goblins were mortal enemies except when the CD's decided to enslave or make or ally with such! A nice twist and a nice difference in an army with few elites (CDs) and plenty of cannon-fodder (greenskins!) both in theme/flavour and in mechanics of gameplay.
I'm super hyped, but I really don't want it streamlined.. Its not that complicated already, I never saw anyone struggle with rules or army lists.. I would HATE it to get the 40k/AoS treatment, if it does I'll not be spending the thousands I would otherwise.
I'm curious about this, like, are they going to do what they did with 40k stat lines, which I don't think is too bad of a simplification, all they did was change WS/BS to a consistent roll that you don't have to compare against an opponents WS/BS. You still compare Strength to Toughness, and have armor save modifiers. But I agree with you that it wasn't that difficult to get the hang of things and keep the games moving along at a pretty fair clip. Once you play a few games, the to-hit and to-wound charts are pretty easy.
@@Wedgeismyhero I'm not a fan of weapons being linked to profiles rather than tactical choices, nor am I a fan of a lack of options for characters in terms of magic items etc, that's a whole very interesting mini game that is very much part of the magic that makes Warhammer. If they turn magic into weapon profiles like psychic powers that would double suck. I'm super excited and seriously set to spend big money (for me at least) supporting the game if its anything like the classic was, I wasn't keen on how they altered movement and charges in 8th if I'm honest, but I liked the rest of the changes (bar the loss of guess range, that's a skill that can be learnt with simple mathmatics and shouldn't be simplifed because people are too lazy to learn simple trig).
GW learning from their mistakes...... Age of Sigmar has a base size list so that people can convert their bases from Fantasy to Age of Sigmar. So I would expect the same for The Old World. I hope the base sizes are somewhat similar to Age of Sigmar so that I can just use base converters or make movement trays to use my Age of Sigmar Lizardmen.
Dragon dies instantly when attacking the city gate!!! (total war Warhammer 3) I attacked the city of Dark fortress as Imrik. I ordered my start dragon to attack the city gate. After the dragon attacked the gate, he died instantly after 30 seconds without being attacked himself.
I have nearly 1,300 miniatures for just for my Empire, Elves & Dwarves there is no freaking way that I am going to rebase any of them. The same goes for the nearly the same amount of miniatures that I have for my Ork & Goblins and Undead armies. I am just going to use movement trays which I have gotten already for the initial three armies but still need to get the Orks & Goblins and Undead movement trays. As for new miniatures with what I have already not really interested since I know GW is going to do a ton of price gouging.
The big difference is they never actually said there wasn't going to be any scale creep for all other Games. This is as far as I'm aware the first time they've ever said there will be no scale creep.
Regarding slimming down? Not really as dumbing down is what age of sigmars for the whole benefit of all those rules ensured a wide variety of gameplay and playstyles streamlining will reduce them to be playing chess with nicely painted miniatures. Not that I'm against that but it's not warhammer
in regards to prices of returning kits, i have 0 hope for them being affordable. look at how much they charge for clanrats and night goblins for aos despite them being kits from whfb. i can only imagine all returning kits will be priced to match modern kits
I thought by now we were past calling TOW a ForgeWorld game. Horus Heresy 1e was I think the only game that could have been called that, but considering the majority of development is being handled by the Warhammer Studio (GW proper), the elements that are likely being handled by FW are graphic design & book layout, as mentioned by Sug’s description of her FW work. I would be neither surprised nor mad if we got special characters in FW resin (out of timeframe TW characters) and some special upgrade kits, but with so much returning & new plastic, most of what we buy will almost certainly be from the main GW webstore.
@@thomassaxon8254 The old world is not a specialist game. It’s the same as Horus Heresy. At no point in the articles on warhammer community say Forgeworld is handeling the old world but warhammer studios.
How well is GW going to be able to keep up with their needed release schedule? It seems pretty stacked: 40k 10th edition, all the new codexes staggered release, new tyranids, new marine kits, several zenos races badly needing an update, horus heresy being badly supported and desperately needing plastic kits for basic units like assult marines, LOTR being a graveyard and a host of other near-abandoned specialist games. Presumably age of sigmar will still be getting regular releases too. I can't be the only one who's noticed how many products are out of stock. How is GW supposed to meet the demmand for a warhammer old world range that will match old fantasy or total war. We're talking about dozens of new kits and dozens more old kits back in manafacture. Not to mention all the new books, rule and scenery. This, combined with rumours of epic scale, I'm not convinced GW is going to be able to cope. Get used to a few more 'Lion-like' releases with the preorders being gone in a few seconds.
@oblitibley it got 3 books last year, as many as Necromunda. Each of those came out with model releases. And extra releases like Grimbeorn etc. Not to mention the terrain kits. It sounds like to me you've not been paying attention. It's a specialist game - are you saying that Necromunda is dead as well?
I've been playing wfb and 40k since the 90s, so I get it and I feel for you. But you are kidding yourself if you think that is a coincidence that both forge world-style releases came / are coming out for settings with massive armies. Both are cash grabs devised by the marketing firm that came up with Warhammer+. This will be a limited release just like Horus heresy and is a modest investment to capture revenue from old fans who have cash and will pay. Old world will have a proud icon on the website (just like hh) but will never receive the price points and attention you are hoping for. I take no pleasure from torpedoing your hopes, but as one old fan to another, I owe it to you to give it to you straight.
I *REALLY* hope the starter box will have all brand new sculpts. I want to get into WHFB but those old sculpts look really rough compared to AoS and I want to kitbash and use stuff from AoS that has a pretty different scale too. I've never played any wargame proper and FB world is so cool to me, but the last article on Bretonnia made my hype for it dissapear. Why, for the love of god, did they thought it's a great idea to kick the door open with old stuff? I can get newer sculpts from 3D stls sellers. That is so dissapoining and a big problem for the future of WHFB world, again, because if it's not going to sell well (and throwing a box of old stuff that was already old by the time WHFB was nuked is not going to sell it) the game will get abandoned again. I just hope that I'm wrong and we will get shiny new box with all brand new stuff but with the possibility of using old armies and minis for those who want it.
@@ShadowWolfRising To be fair Bretonnia does need more stuff cause they need it. But I agree some of the non-humans need stuff. More importantly stuff that fits, as a former dwarf player i cannot tell you how frustrating it was to mainly get artillery or just things that shoot instead of something cool, like say a Runic golem. Fun fact though if GW is commited to this time period Empire will actually lose a few things. Mages since the Colleges of Magic don't exist yet, the Imperial Gunnery neither so no helblaster volley gun, helstorm rocket battery and also no Steamtanks.
@@visitingforgefather5997 Apparently the Old world is set around 2301. This means that the Empire will have access to Steam Tanks which were created by Leonardo da Miragliano who died in 2027. The prototype for the Hellblaster was created around 2253 so there is potential to have that in it too. I can't remember anything about the Helstorm rocket battery but I thought it was out of the dates. So wouldn't be there. Could be wrong though. I believe there's some Knightly orders they won't have such as the Reiksguard. Also the Magical units from the colleges which weren't set up until during or near the end of the great war with chaos. This is of course assuming they don't retcon all of this for their own purposes 🤷♂️
@@johnoneill3654 Ah yes you are correct my apologies, Empire lore isn't my forte. I always assumed the Steam tank and Helblaster were after the Great War against Chaos. If I remember correctly the Helstorm was a rather late invention since it got its name after almost hitting Boris Todbringer during a battle, Helstorm being one of the words the Count dropped during his avalanche of insults against the crew.
@@visitingforgefather5997 No need to apologise at all bud. We each have specific interests. I'm sure you could run circles around me with many other aspects of Warhammer lore. Good memory about the Helstorm btw! I'd completely forgot it, thank you 👍 As I said though they could still retcon some of this if it suited their purposes. Time will tell.
If they don't do alternating activations, I don't care about it. I'm too old and tired to play a game that requires me to remember status of 10 units at once : (
I will just retire my Skaven then re based them, but my orcs are fine then my goblins would have to be rebased. Again I not interested in rebasing miniatures and at my age not interested in painting any new figures.
Agree with everything you say, but pretty sure a lot of old wathammer players would love to buy metal models. I’m not sure why you dislike them so much.
I think it's safe to say they're going to be pushing shiny new models as soon as they can as fast as they can. They aren't going to make money off the few remaining Old Guard with models they've saved in there attic. They want to new fresh players that are going to buy shiny new models. That's been GW tactic for years, they make their money on the first time players
Not disagreeing completely but from what I've seen they make the majority of their money off of a core group of, for lack of a better word, whales. This group consistently buy almost every thing new that comes out and seem to start new armies on the flip of a coin and buy into fomo pretty extremely. In other words they're well trained/indoctrinated by GW and it's marketing over a longish period of time. New players can join this group but from what I've seen it's a lot of the same people who say they buy the next new thing over the years.
I don't see why they wouldn't be. Most of the model range is still available in their store. In terms of development resources, they would only need a new army book instead of armies that need a book AND a whole new model range, or to have their molds remade.
@@austinphillips9125 I'd wait if I were u. Every single kit aside from stormfiends are 12yr+ old kits. They have issues and it's much smarter to wait for a range refresh but if you can't wait that long then sure go ahead since they'll be in Old World 300%
@@austinphillips9125 If you want to have a fully painted army by the time it's out, I'd for sure start now. Skaven armies are notorious for the amount of models needed. I have a 2000 8th edition force myself, and it's 90 models, but if I had skavenslaves instead of some of the other choices, that model count would balloon in no time.
Never trust games workshop, just hope for the best out come. Personal opinion but I have never liked age of Smegmar, the game is to simple/streamlined for me which makes it boring, I hope that the warhammer the old world battles will be in depth like warhammer fantasy was.
I will buy some miniatures if its the new updated ones. Dont wanna spend money on 30 year old miniatures if they are going to release new ones just saying.
I’m buying 3d printed empire minis, if they do a big empire box cheaper then I will buy but yeah, as someone who’s just started fantasy I would buy old minis but if they’re cheap enough. Like I’m not paying more then 20/25quid for a box of 20
It would be madness for GW to release the Old World in 2023 given Epic is also being rumoured. If you've been sicked by the updates to 10th Edition 40K - which point to a very bad, run-by-committee, pay-to-win agenda, then Old World is looking worse. The red flag being the bases: the game should be base agnostic and encouraging you to use your AoS models; that this isn't the case is a RED FLAG if you think about it carefully. The current rumours are all you're getting, for the Old World, is maybe the intro box and compendiums in 2023. This MIGHT be a good thing if the REAL release of Old World is 2025 - as they can change the rules via feedback but good luck with that being the case. We're getting shafted, Old World is being set up to fail because of course it is. GW politics is what it is. 2024 AoS 4th Edition is coming so 2025 was the earliest for a BIG full release. If it comes 2023 we can safely assume GW are just hoping this is a cashcow that will be thrown into the bin which, let's face it, was what HH has become and that was a BIG RELEASE anyway. It's over before we've begun. I don't want to pay £32.50 for 8 Bretonnian plastic knights of the realm from 2003 thanks. GW DO NOT CARE about you or the Old World. Whatever honest intentions they had at the start have long gone. The game, so the rumours go, is just another bloated follow up from 8th. They've learnt NOTHING other than how to screw us even more. I'd LOVE to be wrong.
There's a big reveal happening next week so I wanted to talk some stuff that GW need to think ahead for the future of Old World and not make the same mistakes they did for Fantasy! Let's discuss!
For someone that has never played Warhammer Fantasy, and that has no interest in AoS or 40k, this is all very exciting. I cannot wait for anything to come out: old, new, books, it doesn’t matter. I still cannot believe that they just literally blew up this amazing world full of stories, characters, and a fully developed history. (I found out about it all in 2018, well after the End Times.) So many people had invested into it, both literally and emotionally, it must be bittersweet to see them bringing it all back, like a big “uh oh, we shouldn’t have done that”, but for someone new to the hobby it’s fantastic.
Fantasy was AWESOME. And many of my closest friends were met while playing it.
For a specific example I'll give you this:
Our gaming group was 28 players strong, mostly meeting up and playing every other Sunday afternoon. When WFB finished/killed the game with their moronic 'End Times', our group dwindled down to 7 players including myself..... then, by year's end, everyone shifted over to 3 other tabletop games, the most played being Kings of War, and never looked back. Our former group now mainly gets together for board games on Sundays, with an average attendance of ~8-10 players.... Yup, Games Workshop shot themselves in the foot and imo never recovered - at least not with fantasy. (we rarely gamed 40K)
Let's see how Old World does - waiting for a peek at the rules.
GW charges $55 for old ass 10 greatswords and phoenix guard, and $80 for 5 centigors. Anyone hoping it'll be cheaper is setting themselves up.
AAAAAaaaaaaaaannnnnnddddd, GW will once again put off 50%+ of players wishing to get into the hobby.
I mostly played 40k on Tabletop and specifically Eldar/Dark Eldar. If they make a new model for Malekith/Morathi/Tyrion/etc I'm getting a whole fantasy army of elves.
I hope they dont sell regiments of 10 and then state in the rules you need 12 to play them, i really hated that selling scheme, people started making their own rules.
I hated that system. I bought 16 models and needed 20. Tried to put a 40x40mm base as a unit filler. Looked like crap. Even to this day I have 21 storm vermin in my three units, instead of 20. Because you needed that extra foookin blister.
Older and Smaller Factions need to be brought to parity (WHEN NORSE DWARFS?), Old Lore revamped but brought back (Non-Chaos Northmen.), etc.
A real gateway would be hero models that don't cost as much as half a unit box - cheap enough for a person to buy on impulse.
100% 🙌
Galen and Doralia ven Denst are two models I'd like. But they are absolutely insanely priced at at €45 for just the two of them. I will never pay that ridiculous price no matter how good the minis are.
I will die WHEN Mordheim is announced. I can't wait for fantasy to return. But Mordheim brings back a million memories. And it's still so popular GW are obviously bringing it back. Can not wait.
They won't. They have 2 fantasy skirmish games already.
Considering how well Necromumda is received nowadays, they'd be stupid to not attempt a relaunch.
@@scepteredisle unfortunately neither of those games are as big as mordheim. Mordheim is fantast necromunda, and look how popular the relaunch of Necro was.
Theres no need to rerelease it. Its already out. And for free.
I’d love mordeheim, I never got the chance to play.
They won’t lower the prices. The old Lotr models get regular price increases and the made to order costs are criminal
I hope for Hung, should be fantastic if Cathay have Chaos Mongols to fight alongside the Great Bastion.
I can confirm whenever these come I will just buy some minis of skaven and greenskins and never actually play the table top with anyone lol.
"It's not that I don't trust Games Workshop" ... that one got me. How could anyone that has paid even minimal attention have any trust in GW? Fans of any of their games should be familiar with being screwed over.
Despite it still being an awesome looking mini the Poison Globadier really needs a new model. Its a truly ancient sculpt. Also considering the Empire Militia unit was the base human warband for Mordheim gives the possibility of Mordheim being added as a skirmish supliment for the Old World.
On the subject of mini games, Warhammer Quest going back to the old world would be amazing. The Cursed City minis are exquisite and so fun to paint. A core game with new models and rules, and expansions for skaven, night goblins, vampires and chaos cultists would be amazing.
they need to add some kind of Laurelorn faction for wood elves!! they are references often in the cubicle7 WFRP supplements
I really hope they tweak how magic works. In 8th ed. it was insane! A single even slightly lucky spell could easily wipe out most of an elite infantry unit. On the flip side, you could be so unlucky with magic, that not only did you end up wasting points on a wizard; you also killed a unit of your own in the process..
I know there's a bit of charm to how wacky it was, but it really needs *some* changes xD
The game needed a complete re-write, ground up. Not tweaks lol
The price GW charges has been completely decoupled from the cost of production for a decade or more. Don't expect reasonable prices.
They'll charge us more because it's a 'specialist game', which basically just means badly supported
I guess most important stuff is for GW : "Dont be greedy, work for long term". I mean we all know GW is pricing like mad but i guess if they pick up many ppl its gonna be better way then milk few. We all want good game and big player base i guess so if they gona be to greedy at begining they can destrowy game for many beginers...
Games workshop Will NOT lower costs. They never have and never will. In fact they price increased their old kits just as much as their new kits. If they keep this system old world will die at launch. As everyone will buy stl files or 3rd party minis for $100 for pretty much a full army. However GW can combat this buy increasing value like they did with 30k. 20 tacts at $70 is by no means cheap but the old kit for 10 was $50. I want them to do this for the old kits. Take the empire warrior box of 10 minis for $35. Make it 30 for $70. Suddenly they get a huge mark up of profits, still increase costs and increase volume and value for the consumer. Its a perfect win win. I just hope to the gods, their mindless greed does not destroy them.
I'm also certain they're not going to discount any of the minis, I'd be very very suprised if they did
They DID lower prices once. Around 2007 or something. Chaos knights and marauders and a few more I believe. They observed that sales did not increase.
@@thecappeningchannel515 that's hilarious
@@thecappeningchannel515
How much were the prices lowered by?
@@johnoneill3654 I cant recall. But perhaps as much as 30 or even 40% for a couplenof those kits.
Exellent breakdown, games workshop has such a great chance to learn from previous misteps and mistakes and create an amazingly fun Warhammer Game.
I want GW to confirm Chaos Dwarfs for Sigmar and Old World AND that these models will be plastic and not finecast crap. It was crazy expensive to collect Chaos Dwarfs from Forgeworld back in the day. I very much want to play them again in Sigmar and Old World.
The best looking AOS faction being squatted was a terrible decision. Offer better discount offers and people will skip out on army boxes to support their favorite factions.
Totally Agree 6th ed had the best lore friendly armies - harder to balance but GW are bad at that. I really hope we get alot of new models for the different era. sadly I really can;t see GW not charing a premium for everything - despite all the good points you make.
Some of us do want metal miniatures, for me the best news about all of the Old World stuff so far has been that we are getting some old metal miniatures back in production! Also old plastic kits, which is great. I would personally prefer them to just release older models and not even the ones they had in 8th edition, but the ones from 6th ed and older.
Anyway, some of us actually do prefer metal miniatures - at least for older sculpts. I doubt I'll buy any new sculpts anyway, but I'll definitely buy a lot of the old kits going back into production.
While I am super hyped for Cathay, something else I want to see is how existing factions get "localized" in their enviroment. For example, in TWW3 there is a Wood Elf glade in Cathay and I would love to see how they are different than their Athel Lauren cousins using more bamboos and maybe drawing insperation from IRL local cultures in South China/Vietnam. Another example could be the Lustrian Dwarves and how perhaps a little bit of Lizardmen influence seeps in and they now use Lizardmen-like maces instead of Hammers or how their Slayers wear dino scales.
I know there are people who are going to say "oh but they're all very traditional races who wouldn't diverge that much" but if Norse Dwarves can have a unique look and the Vampire Coasts exist as seperate from Vampire Counts, why not. Plus it would just be so cool to see it. Asian Wood Elves, Amazonian/Incan Dwarves, Congolese Lizardmen (Southlands), Russian/Northern Skaven (Hellpit), actually seeing how Beastmen and Greenskins adapt to their enviroments, there's just so much possibility.
wasnt it already stated that base sizes will be on the unit datasheet in the article?
It is annoying that bases are changing. i have 100s of skeletons to rebase
Those are my predictions:
Empire: I expect new basic troops. And new characters.
Bretonia: I expect a lot of new things. Almost all the metal units. And new characters.
Wood Elves: Expect several elven units like glade guard, cavalry and hawk riders. Probably new Orion or the sexy sisters with the dragon.
High Elves: Expect new units like common troops, spearmen, archers and silverhelms. Maybe Tyrion and Teclis.
Dark Elves: Dont expect units soon. When the time comes, i expect spearmen, sorceress, and MALEKITH
Dwarves: I dont think fireslayers will be the new updated slayers. We will have new slayers, also miners and some basic troops.
Tomb kings: New basic troops. Skeleton warriors, Archers, Chariots and Ushabtis. And Settra. Plis. Give me a new Settra.
Vampire Counts: Dont expect almost anything. They have been totally updated with AoS and we have tons of new models of everything we want.
Orcs and Goblins: Eventually we will have common orcs and maybe common goblins. Night goblins have been totally updated in AoS and we will use those models. New badass orc warchief.
Ogre Kingdoms: New models like yeties but not soon.
Skaven: We will have new things, but not very soon.
Chaos: I think we will have the option monogod armies, mixing demons, warriors and maybe beastmen, but only in monogod.
Daemons of Chaos: Dont expect updates soon but eventually we will have some demons updated.
Warriors of Chaos: Dont expect updates soon. There are a lot of new minis in AoS that will be used. Maybe, new barbarian cavalry.
Beastmen: We will have new units not very late. I also expect things like khornegors, pestigors etc.
The first "enemies" in the Old World will be Orcs, Beastmen and Tomb kings, also Vampires but we wont have anything new here.
The first "good guys" will be Bretonia, Empire, Wood Elves, High Elves and Dwarves.
After that: Chaos invasion with Kislev
After that: Chaos Dwarves and Ogre Kingdoms with Cathay. Maybe some daemons of chaos of Tzeentch.
Going to need to win a lotto. 😅
I still have my Warhammer Fantasy Wood Elves and Dwarves though!
I would love the Dogs of War and the ability to play every minor faction with them.
More love for all the factions would be great.
If I can get my hands on some nice new Bretonnian knights with lots of options, I promise to actually paint them.
Based on what I see in the current range I'm guessing it is going to be a box of 8 plastic goblins for 40$
As long as I can get some jade warriors on my shelf, I'll be happy
I hope they create a split in the timeline sometime around IC 2523 or a few years before that so that the end times can be averted and Warhammer fantasy can eventually go on beyond Archaon without being damned to become Age of Sigmar.
I don’t have a problem with Age of Sigmar continuing but Warhammer fantasy shouldn’t be trapped in time never being able to go beyond IC 2523.
I truly do think that if they sell the old minis with a premium price point this will immediately flop. No way are they stupid enough to do it even if it's money hubgry GW
If GW ever do a vampire coast line I will spend every free penny I have on it. Pls.
What do people think the chances of Greenskins having Black Orcs in their roster for Warhammer the Old World are? When did the Chaos Dwarfs first create them? I don't remember them being around at the time of Gorbad Ironclaw's Waaagh!
Personally, I like idiosyncratic lore details like that that are creative and weave interesting angles into the world-building. I remember the original CD army book and the creation of Black Orcs as well as the use of Hobgoblins and thought it was a cool addition to the idea Dwarves and Orcs/Goblins were mortal enemies except when the CD's decided to enslave or make or ally with such! A nice twist and a nice difference in an army with few elites (CDs) and plenty of cannon-fodder (greenskins!) both in theme/flavour and in mechanics of gameplay.
Chaos dwarves please! 🙏
This… give me Chaos Dwarf and GW can have my money
I'm super hyped, but I really don't want it streamlined.. Its not that complicated already, I never saw anyone struggle with rules or army lists.. I would HATE it to get the 40k/AoS treatment, if it does I'll not be spending the thousands I would otherwise.
I'm curious about this, like, are they going to do what they did with 40k stat lines, which I don't think is too bad of a simplification, all they did was change WS/BS to a consistent roll that you don't have to compare against an opponents WS/BS. You still compare Strength to Toughness, and have armor save modifiers. But I agree with you that it wasn't that difficult to get the hang of things and keep the games moving along at a pretty fair clip. Once you play a few games, the to-hit and to-wound charts are pretty easy.
@@Wedgeismyhero I'm not a fan of weapons being linked to profiles rather than tactical choices, nor am I a fan of a lack of options for characters in terms of magic items etc, that's a whole very interesting mini game that is very much part of the magic that makes Warhammer. If they turn magic into weapon profiles like psychic powers that would double suck.
I'm super excited and seriously set to spend big money (for me at least) supporting the game if its anything like the classic was, I wasn't keen on how they altered movement and charges in 8th if I'm honest, but I liked the rest of the changes (bar the loss of guess range, that's a skill that can be learnt with simple mathmatics and shouldn't be simplifed because people are too lazy to learn simple trig).
If GW don't release the minis at the start (likely, as HH still doesn't have basic infantry), then you first purchase should be a 3d printer.
What do you mean by HH not having basic infantry? They have the 20 man tactical squad?
@@Diceslice there are not plastic assault marines, breachers or despoilers. That's a real problem for a lot of legions. E.g. Blood Angels.
@Gumlass1 those aren't basic infantry though. Basic infantry are tacticals plus the supportsquad s
@@thomassaxon8254 ok. If you say so.
GW learning from their mistakes......
Age of Sigmar has a base size list so that people can convert their bases from Fantasy to Age of Sigmar. So I would expect the same for The Old World.
I hope the base sizes are somewhat similar to Age of Sigmar so that I can just use base converters or make movement trays to use my Age of Sigmar Lizardmen.
Im just praying for more ogre kingdoms lore
I'm not rebasing until I see the full set of rules. If the game sucks then my group will just keep playing 8th with our house rules.
Dragon dies instantly when attacking the city gate!!! (total war Warhammer 3)
I attacked the city of Dark fortress as Imrik. I ordered my start dragon to attack the city gate. After the dragon attacked the gate, he died instantly after 30 seconds without being attacked himself.
Excited for old world, but I kind of wish they would go in more of the direction of the middle earth rule set.
I'd like to put together a Druchii armybecause I have a few boxes of them. Maybe get some Handgunners so my Darkshards have guns.
I have nearly 1,300 miniatures for just for my Empire, Elves & Dwarves there is no freaking way that I am going to rebase any of them. The same goes for the nearly the same amount of miniatures that I have for my Ork & Goblins and Undead armies. I am just going to use movement trays which I have gotten already for the initial three armies but still need to get the Orks & Goblins and Undead movement trays. As for new miniatures with what I have already not really interested since I know GW is going to do a ton of price gouging.
The big difference is they never actually said there wasn't going to be any scale creep for all other Games. This is as far as I'm aware the first time they've ever said there will be no scale creep.
Also hasn't the Tomb Kings v Brets rumour not faded since from reliable sources that it will be an Empire v Orcs starter set.
Competing rumours so far. Both fairly reliable.
Also honestly Empire vs O&G would feel like a mistake after hyping Brets and TK.
Regarding slimming down? Not really as dumbing down is what age of sigmars for the whole benefit of all those rules ensured a wide variety of gameplay and playstyles streamlining will reduce them to be playing chess with nicely painted miniatures. Not that I'm against that but it's not warhammer
in regards to prices of returning kits, i have 0 hope for them being affordable. look at how much they charge for clanrats and night goblins for aos despite them being kits from whfb. i can only imagine all returning kits will be priced to match modern kits
Just give me all factions and units that are in the Total war warhammer 3 and I'll buy it... I just have to sell my kidneys but I'll buy it all
I thought by now we were past calling TOW a ForgeWorld game. Horus Heresy 1e was I think the only game that could have been called that, but considering the majority of development is being handled by the Warhammer Studio (GW proper), the elements that are likely being handled by FW are graphic design & book layout, as mentioned by Sug’s description of her FW work. I would be neither surprised nor mad if we got special characters in FW resin (out of timeframe TW characters) and some special upgrade kits, but with so much returning & new plastic, most of what we buy will almost certainly be from the main GW webstore.
Forgeworld are the specialist studio. This is a specialist game.
By definition this is a FW game as are Middle-earth, Necromunda etc.
@@thomassaxon8254 It’s being handled by warhammer studio not Forgeworld.
@YoungTank the Games Studio handle all the rules for all games. But the specialist games are under FW not GW main.
@@thomassaxon8254 The old world is not a specialist game. It’s the same as Horus Heresy. At no point in the articles on warhammer community say Forgeworld is handeling the old world but warhammer studios.
How well is GW going to be able to keep up with their needed release schedule? It seems pretty stacked: 40k 10th edition, all the new codexes staggered release, new tyranids, new marine kits, several zenos races badly needing an update, horus heresy being badly supported and desperately needing plastic kits for basic units like assult marines, LOTR being a graveyard and a host of other near-abandoned specialist games. Presumably age of sigmar will still be getting regular releases too. I can't be the only one who's noticed how many products are out of stock. How is GW supposed to meet the demmand for a warhammer old world range that will match old fantasy or total war. We're talking about dozens of new kits and dozens more old kits back in manafacture. Not to mention all the new books, rule and scenery. This, combined with rumours of epic scale, I'm not convinced GW is going to be able to cope. Get used to a few more 'Lion-like' releases with the preorders being gone in a few seconds.
Why do you think Middle-earth is a graveyard?
@@thomassaxon8254 the games barely updated, gets virtually no new model releases, campaigns or supplements.
@oblitibley it got 3 books last year, as many as Necromunda. Each of those came out with model releases. And extra releases like Grimbeorn etc. Not to mention the terrain kits.
It sounds like to me you've not been paying attention.
It's a specialist game - are you saying that Necromunda is dead as well?
I think you're kidding yourself if you think gw won't charge a lot for old kits, look at made to order prices.
Yes bring back Mordheim!
Isn’t the rumoured launch box now Empire against Orcs & Goblins.
I’ve also read that the first 5 armies will be Empire, Bretonia, Dwarfs, Chaos and Orcs and Goblins. Tomb kings to come later down the line.
I've been playing wfb and 40k since the 90s, so I get it and I feel for you. But you are kidding yourself if you think that is a coincidence that both forge world-style releases came / are coming out for settings with massive armies. Both are cash grabs devised by the marketing firm that came up with Warhammer+. This will be a limited release just like Horus heresy and is a modest investment to capture revenue from old fans who have cash and will pay. Old world will have a proud icon on the website (just like hh) but will never receive the price points and attention you are hoping for. I take no pleasure from torpedoing your hopes, but as one old fan to another, I owe it to you to give it to you straight.
Another banger, Nathan. Thanks for the vid!
It would be nice if Ind look like the Kushans in Berserk.
GW lowering prices for old minis is just wishful thinking, unfortunately.
computer players wont buy minis.
so it will stay niche.
I *REALLY* hope the starter box will have all brand new sculpts. I want to get into WHFB but those old sculpts look really rough compared to AoS and I want to kitbash and use stuff from AoS that has a pretty different scale too.
I've never played any wargame proper and FB world is so cool to me, but the last article on Bretonnia made my hype for it dissapear. Why, for the love of god, did they thought it's a great idea to kick the door open with old stuff? I can get newer sculpts from 3D stls sellers. That is so dissapoining and a big problem for the future of WHFB world, again, because if it's not going to sell well (and throwing a box of old stuff that was already old by the time WHFB was nuked is not going to sell it) the game will get abandoned again.
I just hope that I'm wrong and we will get shiny new box with all brand new stuff but with the possibility of using old armies and minis for those who want it.
9 things? I appreciate the restraint
Main (forlorn) hope: Stop the damn favoritisme for some factions.
Especially the Human ones, give the Non-Humans not named Skaven more love.
@@ShadowWolfRising To be fair Bretonnia does need more stuff cause they need it.
But I agree some of the non-humans need stuff.
More importantly stuff that fits, as a former dwarf player i cannot tell you how frustrating it was to mainly get artillery or just things that shoot instead of something cool, like say a Runic golem.
Fun fact though if GW is commited to this time period Empire will actually lose a few things.
Mages since the Colleges of Magic don't exist yet, the Imperial Gunnery neither so no helblaster volley gun, helstorm rocket battery and also no Steamtanks.
@@visitingforgefather5997
Apparently the Old world is set around 2301. This means that the Empire will have access to Steam Tanks which were created by Leonardo da Miragliano who died in 2027.
The prototype for the Hellblaster was created around 2253 so there is potential to have that in it too.
I can't remember anything about the Helstorm rocket battery but I thought it was out of the dates. So wouldn't be there. Could be wrong though.
I believe there's some Knightly orders they won't have such as the Reiksguard. Also the Magical units from the colleges which weren't set up until during or near the end of the great war with chaos.
This is of course assuming they don't retcon all of this for their own purposes 🤷♂️
@@johnoneill3654 Ah yes you are correct my apologies, Empire lore isn't my forte.
I always assumed the Steam tank and Helblaster were after the Great War against Chaos.
If I remember correctly the Helstorm was a rather late invention since it got its name after almost hitting Boris Todbringer
during a battle, Helstorm being one of the words the Count dropped during his avalanche of insults against the crew.
@@visitingforgefather5997
No need to apologise at all bud. We each have specific interests. I'm sure you could run circles around me with many other aspects of Warhammer lore.
Good memory about the Helstorm btw! I'd completely forgot it, thank you 👍
As I said though they could still retcon some of this if it suited their purposes. Time will tell.
Hi canyon please do a video about rulesets? I.e will it be6th or 8th based nd how it ill please both camps?
27 seconds ago. I CLICK!!!
If they don't do alternating activations, I don't care about it. I'm too old and tired to play a game that requires me to remember status of 10 units at once : (
The last time I was this early, I hadn't even been born yet.
The Eldar update was very poorly done. Only a few units, and an extraordinary price increase.
I will just retire my Skaven then re based them, but my orcs are fine then my goblins would have to be rebased. Again I not interested in rebasing miniatures and at my age not interested in painting any new figures.
£22 for a box of 20 figures would be nice
Like other manufacturers but it will never happen
#1 End and Discontinue Age of Sigmar!
Agree with everything you say, but pretty sure a lot of old wathammer players would love to buy metal models. I’m not sure why you dislike them so much.
Agree, most of my armies are metal. Never liked the finesse or the plastics
I think it's safe to say they're going to be pushing shiny new models as soon as they can as fast as they can. They aren't going to make money off the few remaining Old Guard with models they've saved in there attic. They want to new fresh players that are going to buy shiny new models. That's been GW tactic for years, they make their money on the first time players
Not disagreeing completely but from what I've seen they make the majority of their money off of a core group of, for lack of a better word, whales.
This group consistently buy almost every thing new that comes out and seem to start new armies on the flip of a coin and buy into fomo pretty extremely. In other words they're well trained/indoctrinated by GW and it's marketing over a longish period of time.
New players can join this group but from what I've seen it's a lot of the same people who say they buy the next new thing over the years.
Yeah no offence to Nathan or others, but they say they'll buy etc etc etc thing GW makes, so I think a Whale market is realistic
GIMME MORDHEIM, NOW, PLEASE!
Will skaven be in warhammer old world?
I don't see why they wouldn't be. Most of the model range is still available in their store. In terms of development resources, they would only need a new army book instead of armies that need a book AND a whole new model range, or to have their molds remade.
@@Wedgeismyhero So it would be safe for me to start buying some skaven minis
@@austinphillips9125 I'd wait if I were u. Every single kit aside from stormfiends are 12yr+ old kits. They have issues and it's much smarter to wait for a range refresh but if you can't wait that long then sure go ahead since they'll be in Old World 300%
@@austinphillips9125 If you want to have a fully painted army by the time it's out, I'd for sure start now. Skaven armies are notorious for the amount of models needed. I have a 2000 8th edition force myself, and it's 90 models, but if I had skavenslaves instead of some of the other choices, that model count would balloon in no time.
I want all in total war before lol
Never trust games workshop, just hope for the best out come. Personal opinion but I have never liked age of Smegmar, the game is to simple/streamlined for me which makes it boring, I hope that the warhammer the old world battles will be in depth like warhammer fantasy was.
they need darkelves end of story lol
I hope we don't get new miniatures, GW digital designs are way too cluttered and dynamic, they look awful when ranked up
I will buy some miniatures if its the new updated ones. Dont wanna spend money on 30 year old miniatures if they are going to release new ones just saying.
I’m buying 3d printed empire minis, if they do a big empire box cheaper then I will buy but yeah, as someone who’s just started fantasy I would buy old minis but if they’re cheap enough. Like I’m not paying more then 20/25quid for a box of 20
Khuresh. Khuresh. Khuresh.
First
GW need to return russian language in game 😢
I would like to see them cancel AoS. And ban all the AoS players from playing or buying old world, make it an exclusive club for real warhammer fans.
It would be madness for GW to release the Old World in 2023 given Epic is also being rumoured. If you've been sicked by the updates to 10th Edition 40K - which point to a very bad, run-by-committee, pay-to-win agenda, then Old World is looking worse. The red flag being the bases: the game should be base agnostic and encouraging you to use your AoS models; that this isn't the case is a RED FLAG if you think about it carefully.
The current rumours are all you're getting, for the Old World, is maybe the intro box and compendiums in 2023. This MIGHT be a good thing if the REAL release of Old World is 2025 - as they can change the rules via feedback but good luck with that being the case. We're getting shafted, Old World is being set up to fail because of course it is. GW politics is what it is.
2024 AoS 4th Edition is coming so 2025 was the earliest for a BIG full release. If it comes 2023 we can safely assume GW are just hoping this is a cashcow that will be thrown into the bin which, let's face it, was what HH has become and that was a BIG RELEASE anyway. It's over before we've begun. I don't want to pay £32.50 for 8 Bretonnian plastic knights of the realm from 2003 thanks.
GW DO NOT CARE about you or the Old World. Whatever honest intentions they had at the start have long gone. The game, so the rumours go, is just another bloated follow up from 8th. They've learnt NOTHING other than how to screw us even more. I'd LOVE to be wrong.
When the issue isn't even rules anymore but rules AND models then you know it's going to be a horrible release
bruh