I am sorry to hear that they let you down. I had one of their Class 50 models and a Class 66 and both ran without flaws. With new nano motors available. I was expecting to see the model be locomotive drive with the motor mounted at the front. I had an O Gauge Jinty for a bit on evaluation with a flickering firebox and it ran well. But it shows that Dapol dropped the ball on this one this time around. I used to own a Dapol Class 67 back in 2010/2011 and the motor was loud and noisy! I swapped it out for a Kato motor and that sure improved performance and no more grinding noise either. The motor I used came from an SD40-2 that was a non runner. So I used it for parts to get the Class 67 working.
The diesels run just fine, but then they don't have that shaft drive. Sams Trains on youtube tested some Dapol steamers in N gauge and he had problems as well. My Britannia class I have finally found the problem and will be selling it. If you put the motor in the tender then drive the tender! It's not rocket science. They found a solution to a problem that doesn't exist.
@@ngaugeonashelf4417 To be honest with you buddy. Dapol needs to retool that model and others like that because they will get less flack from the community and get more sales if they value their customers and not take them for granted 😔. Just my two cents on the matter.
I bought one second hand it was cheap and great in a straight line not around corners. It turned out the front bogie was hitting the chassis frame. I filed out the frame a bit where the curves for the wheels were and it runs great now.
I would investigate if I had bought a second hand one. As it's new it was much easier to take it back and exchange for a GraFar. I wont be buying any more of them. I think that shaft drive is the worst idea I've ever seen.
@@ngaugeonashelf4417 Surely there must be a locomotive chassis, that is powered in the loco, that could be made to fit the body? Can you get a Manor GWR loco driven from any other manufacturer? Maybe time to check out Shapeways, and Thingiverse. There are some on Shapeways, one around £60. 4mm scale, but a lot of creators do re-scale their models.
As a casual observer, I think a contributor to this is what in a fwd car is called ‘torque steer’, where the actions of the drive shaft and UJ will steer the front wheels. In this case, it’s ‘steering’ the loco off the track. Just a thought.
The flanges are very shallow too. Probably a combination of things. Either way, if it doesn't run out of the box it goes back. Not my problem to fix. Cheers
I have 2 Dapol steamer s.A 9F an A4. Bought secondhand, both DCC. Both are noisy runners and derail easily. However,I’ve replaced the motor on the A4 with a cordless and fitted a Hornby tts sound decoder. It is currently my favourite loco as it runs beautifully. I found some derailing issues were because the wires connecting tender/loco don’t flex enough and because these weigh nothing (compared to a Farish), they were literally tripping it up.
I don't mind tender drive, Hornby have been doing it for years. Now N gauge motors are smaller and better no reson not to do it at all. But that damn shft drive to the loco doesn't really work. It's trying to fix a problem that doesn't exist. I've since been told if the shaft is not located correctly or has flash on it or the 2 sockets have flash on them the loco will derail. That isn't good. Cheers
I had the same issue, and it was a tiny bit of flash on the Carden shaft or the coupling (I can't remember which) . Once I cleaned it up and made sure it was all free it ran (and still runs) brilliant! I think I also pushed the coupling onto the motor shaft a little too which helps with clearance. I agree it's not brilliant on a new loco, but I bought mine second hand and was willing to do a bit of work on it. The one advantage of the system is that the loco weight is higher on the driving wheels, I have a Farish castle and while a lovely loco it struggles with traction if more than 4 coaches are behind it!
I am so disappointed with Dapol. If it cost £50 I would try and find out why it is derailing. But £157 straight out of the factory? Not my job to make sure it runs correctly. This is not the first one I have had trouble with, GraFar runs fine straight out of the box so I will stick with them from now on.
We were discussing problems like this at the Swindon Model Railway Club a few days ago. N gauge steam locomotives are getting more and more detailed, but they are also getting lighter, and don't run anywhere near as well as the older loco's do. Take for example Union Mills loco's - they lack the detail of the latest releases, but they look perfectly acceptable at scale speeds and, because they weigh more, they pull a decent rake of coaches or trucks, and don't come off the rails as often!
I can make an old Minitrix run sweetly but I'm not happy with a new one that runs poorly straight out of the box. I would agree they are getting lighter. You can do an awful lot with a modern plastic mold but you've got to put the weight back in there. Hello from just down the road from you. Or is it up? Cheers
I agree all my steam models are Union Mills Steam Locos bar one and are excellent runners with plenty of pull. I've only ever returned one loco back to UM for a new motor at a nominal charge. I do have a Farish Castle which is excellent. My Dapol Diesel Class 25 isn't great and kept derailing until I removed some pieces. However my Dapol 00 gauge GWR Streamlined Railcars are good.
@user-nc3bz3jm5q I have an older Minitrix LNER A4. I know that the chassis comes from a continental loco, so officially is the wrong size for an A4 - but it is heavy and powerful, and pulls a rake of 10 coaches with ease, even on the slight slopes on the model railway clubs exhibition layout, as do the Union Mills locos!
There's something badly wrong when you buy a brand new loco, unbox it, put it on your layout and then ask yourself, "will it run", not knowing whether it will or won't. What are Dapol's diesels like compared to the steam? I hear lots of bad things about Dapol steam.
It's not a question you should be asking yourself after parting with £150. I have a 122 and it's great. No problems at all. There is a channel called 'Ians N gauge' and he swears by them.
I agree poor motor arrangement the drive shaft needs to be more flexible and the loco heavier perhaps for this set up to work but ultimately the motor is better in the loco!
I think they need to get rid of that shaft drive. Thinking about it now I wouldn't be surprised if it's the tail wagging the dog and it's the shaft making the loco come off.
@@paulkandi I'm curious to know how you run in a loco that won't stay on the track? I had a Dapol Britannia which was a pile of... and that wouldn't even stay on a rolling road. The advice to return it is good advice (I tried to fix mine which was definitely a bad idea).
Totally agree. I stopped buying N gauge Dapol years ago. I only buy dummy's or cheap spares and repairs, never full price as I know they'll let me down. And they do. I'm mostly run diesels and electrics and for me running DC, every time the Dapol loco derails it takes the head/tail lights out too. Real garbage. The detail is also lack luster. Just compare the detail netween the bogies on the Dapol 153/156 to the farish 150 or Revolution 128.
I've got 2 left now. They are noisy runners and the one does derail from time to time. I'm still in 2 minds over whether I keep them or not. I will see how they perform on the new layout when the track is laid much later in the year. But my trust is gone like yourself.
It's common with Dapols. All those drive bits going round and round. It might of sounded better if I could of run it in. But it wouldn't run. Catch 22.
This video gave me a good laugh, if not one of uneasy validation. I attempted British N gauge two years ago - Dapol's Schools class loco was one of many that caught my eye as it's a very beautiful model however when I took a closer look at the experiences of people who'd owned it, I learned of many distressing tales of horrendous QC, especially the Locomotive's tendancy to self destruct its own valve gear when the pony truck derailed, I was even more shocked to see Dapol was actually made aware of this on their own forum and their response essentially boiled down to "oh well - Just don't derail the model then I suppose" absolutely unacceptable. Since then I only ran Graham Farish but I found too many of my models having a poor wheel spacing similar to yours in the video and being too hard to repair as all my spares had to be exported to Canada, of which there are few available for purchase online. in the end I gave up the scale and switched to a downsized OO setup, far less distressing haha.
I had one of those Schools. It had the same struggle and it had to go. Which was sad. I've read a few things about the Dapol forum and them not taking responsibility. The only GraFar I had a problem with was the Fairburn tank. It just wouldn't run straight, too many joints in the rear pony for my liking. But everything else is fine. My eyes are telling me I need to go OO if only to see what I'm doing but I'm too far down the N rabbit hole now. Cheers
I Had the same problem with N Gauge, 5 years or more, still unreliable track work and locos, so I just sold it all and went for O Gauge, Wow! what a difference! Dapol Pannier with factory fitted sound, Brilliant! The engineering in their O Gauge models is top drawer, I couldn't be happier!
New to the hobby got my track down and bought a dapol as my first loco and having a hell of a job getting it round a lap without hitting problems reckon it will be a GF next
I've got 4 GraFar and not a problem. Smooth and quiet runners. I also have 2 older ones which are fine and I'm bidding on old one now too on ebay. No complaints with Farish. Cheers.
Got 7 dapol diesels 3x50s ,a western ,2x 68s and a class 22 they run beautiful a lot better than the farish twin but i did have a hymek and a class 66 which where both returned . Also had 2 steamers a 9f and a britannia they were both disasters both returned same problem no good backwards just derailed . so is it hit and miss with the diesels and downright crap with the tender steamers ???
I've heard some good things about the diesels, but they aren't my cup of tea so will never find out. The shaft drive on the steamers is a huge problem and it can be easily avoided. Just design it with the motor above the driven wheels. I have 2 left now and the axe may well fall on both of them.
I have a Dapol steam locos and I’m somewhat mixed with them. My BR standard class 7 and 9, they run pretty poor because of all the gears but my Schools, M7 and Terrier seem to have no issues. I do want the Bullied Pacific but I’m very hesitant
I sympathise. I have only one Dapol, an Ivatt 2-6-2. First and last. It's very pretty but wouldn't run under a scale 200mph. I re motored it and it runs a lot better, the Dapol motor was just junk. But it still rock and rolls because the wheels aren't concentric.
They are pretty poor. This is not the first one that has given me trouble. I will not be buying anything more from them. Plus their spares situation is a joke.
I agree. My only good running Dapol locos are my Class 68 & 86. I sold all my Dapol steamers except Britannia but I rarely run it in case I break yet another plastic drive coupling. I used to say that their rolling stock was OK, but after the poor running O&K JHAs & other issues, I recently decided not to buy any more new Dapol products as the quality control is questionable.
The diesels seem to be fine. Everyone singing their praises. I have one myself. But the steamers just aren't right. Even Sams Train said so. It's not just me who has problems with them.
@@532bluepeter1 I did read them. I'm under no obiligation to fix their quality control. Any more than I would with any other product of any type. It's either 100% or it goes back, like a fridge, a tv or a wardrobe whose doors don't close properly. Cheers
Personally I try not to buy new Dapol Steam engines due to the hit an miss quality. But I do have a number of them in my collection (A4, 28xx, Britannia, 9F, Q1 etc) mostly purchased 2nd hand, a lot as non runners. Worst case, I swap out the cr*p motor for a coreless one, but they've all polished up lovely and are good runners. If you have the skill and patience, they can make cheap but excellent models. Their latest diesels though, ie the Class 50 is simply superb and an easy match, if not better, in some respects than the latest offerings from Farish.
I've bought 4 Dapol steam engines. I have 2 left and those are not perfect runners at all. The Britannia didn't get it's half hour in reverse when running in as it derails in reverse. I've had my fill of them now. Cheers
Just watched your video with a rye smile because I have had the same problem with Dapol steam locomotives. The first thing to do is to replace the motor with one from a company called Tramfabriek, they are much smoother and quieter. Check that the thin wires that go between the tender and the loco are not caught in the coupling and that the coupling has free movement at both ends. Finally check that the yoke on the shaft of the motor is pushed on far enough to allow the drive shaft to have movement and there are not plastic burrs on the parts. Dapol can produce excellent models as pdoved with the class 50 and 68, but they also produce some terrors. I have 9 class 52 locos, only one has the original motor in. I have four Hymeks and all of the motors have gone up in smoke. The last one didbt even get an hours running in ! Graham Farish are no better either ! Dapol won't talk to me about the issues which they know they have !
I solved the problem by taking this second one back and changing for a Graham Farish. They seem to work far better. I don't mind working on a 50 year old non runner MInitrix but I'll be damned if I'm working on a brand new one. Cheers
@@PiddleInTheMarshbyMarkIreland That's why I went to the shop. Let them deal with it rather than me getting stone walled. Funnily I'm looking across the screen and one of the recomended videos for me is about Dapol reliability. Seems to be a common problem. Cheers
@@ngaugeonashelf4417 I have complained so much to Dapol they now won't talk to me. But I am claiming a victory because their new Class 59 and 66 have the motors from the Class 50 which are great.
If I had got from ebay I would try to fix it. Brand new I'm not putting up with a non runner. It went back like the one before it. They have lost a customer and judging by the comments I'm not the only one. Cheers
All locos, whatever scale or gauge need the average of 1 hour running in, 30 minutes in both directions...as directed by the factory:....I was a loco builder for over 25 years and always ran my customers locos for at least 2 hours, before delivery... I can see, by your video, that the loco is trying to get round those curves, the more you run it, the more it will " bed in " .. The drive shaft linkage is new, and will need to be run in, I am sure it will improve within couple of hours, stick with it, I have many all DCC fitted and run smooth and reliable ..they are good mechanisms...good luck..
It's gone Paul, as is the one before it that it replaced. Everything new I've had had been no problem. Light oil, 30 minutes each way. Except Dapol steam engines. They all struggle. I can get a 50 year old Minitrix non runner going but not a Dapol that is brand new. It wasn't just this one, it's been every one. Cheers.
@@ngaugeonashelf4417 I fully agree with your taking the problematic NEW loco back. Dapol need to learn and improve their standards.Anything NEW should perform fine from day one and should not need running in just in order to get it to function properly !
It is a real shame that you have had these problems with your Dapol N gauge locomotives. I have purchased quite a few locomotives from them and I have been absolutely delighted with them although I have to admit that they are ‘O’ gauge. It is a shame that they have a problem with the smaller gauge. Regards from Ron
@@RonCooper-nl4pn Morning Ron, it seems there are lot of different experiences with Dapol. The only experience we should have is that they work properly straight out of the box. Cheers
It's not so much the motor in tender as that shaft drive I think. I've got a Farish standard 5 which is tender drive and it's wonderful. The Peco I had was tender drive and worked really well. I only sold it due to lack of spares. Cheers
Morning Ron, when you consider how much they cost a bit of quality control wouldn't go amiss. But it does seem to be a problem with Dapol. I have seen so many negative comments on other peoples videos it seems to be a common problem. Sadly the layout must go as I need to recover everything on it. I learnt a lot from this and I want to correct some mistakes and have something a bit bigger. Cheers
That's rather an expensive Friday afternoon job then! A damned Dapol, which is a pity, as it looks nice!!! But what rubbish performance from something so expensive!!!! But what a relatively huge number of likes and comments!!! Well done & well said!
I was very sad about it as I wanted to collect their GWR range but I'm not risking another purchase. It seems to have had quite a few views, how do I get that on the golf channel????
Their Granges seem to be problematic. I bought one off Ebay which ran well for a while then.... I have since replaced the rolling chassis and motor. Still no joy.
I've come to the conclusion it's that shaft driver from the tender. It just doesn't bend very well. I've since learned you have to strip it down and make sure their isn't any plastic flashing on either socket and the shaft itself. I've got 2 Dapols left in my collection. As soon as the new layout is up and running I'll give them both a good running and make up my mind about keeping them ot not. Cheers.
@@ngaugeonashelf4417 I haven't considered the Cardan shaft. Have even stripped the chassis down. The gear shafts float in their holes horrendously. Have even thought about bushing those
@@56NeilWatson I haven't stripped them down other than to give them a pre running in drop of oil. They are bloody noisy though, I've got Minitrix from the 70's that are quieter. If anything makes me sell my last 2 it will be the noise.
Hi Simon. *If* this is a problem of wheel spacing (back-to-back gauging), then this is not a problem restricted to just Dapol. While frustrating that it is sometimes necessary to adjust the gauge, it is often not too difficult to do. If this is the only issue with this model, then it would be shame to have to return it. Our good friend, Sam, has often mentioned that he doesn't like this method of driving a loco, although the greater percentage of his models are OO gauge (I don't know if this is significant).
I don't know what the issue was Paul. If it doesn't run right straight out of the box it's going back. Sams Trains had some issues too with Dapol N gauge. I've had a Schools, it derailed from time to time and I thought it was my track, especially as I'm not very skilled. I sold it. I got a GWR 2-8-0 and it's noisy but runs okay ish. I got the Britannia class and that likes to derail and will not run backwards at all. It derails all the time backwards. And now 2 of these. Someone said I need to run it in properly. How? If the bloody thing wont go more than a few feet. Cheers.
I've got a Dapol diesel and it's great. Got a broken exhaust that you can't get spares for. Their spares situation is a joke. I don't understand how they can be so poor as QC and spares when GraFar seem to be so good. Shit, I can get spares for MInitrix 1970's models better than a 2 year old Dapol!
I have a few Dapol diesels including the dreaded pacer but they all run pretty well. My class 50’s are also very quiet. However with steam I have a pretty new A4 which has issues with the drive from the tender and also slowing down considerably on relatively reasonable corners. It is also pretty noisy. At the same time I bought a Farish Duchess which I cannot fault at all!
I run 7 Dapol tender locos all with that drive mechanism and all good. I would say check the driveshaft is properly seated at both ends and check the loco to tender wires aren’t fouling anything underneath. The design won’t be repeated in any new tool models but it does work very well.
Totally agree. Dapol's depressingly poor quality & constantly derailing N gauge steam locos are a joke & are the main reason why I switched to OO gauge a few years ago. Doesn't matter: 4-4-0 Schools, 4-6-0 Grange, B17's, 4-6-2 A1's & A4's are all the same, they just couldn't stay on the track, however well laid it is. Dapol's online forum was full of staff people denying there were any problems too, so bringing it to their attention was just a waste of time. And the spares & repair service / warranty are also completely inadequate. It's also taken them nearly 10 years to realise their Bulleid West County / Battle of Britain locos which are supposed to have die cast bodies & loco drive. Good job I didn't hang around waiting for them, (I have some nice Hornby's now) because they still haven't delivered & will cost around £220 (!!!) for a basic DC model. No thanks, some Minitrix, Grafar or Lima locos from the1970's are still running 50 years later, without any problems except a little oiling every now & again. I doubt if any of Dapol's will even make it into double figures. And because of my bad experiences with their N gauge, I also won't buy any OO gauge from them either. Plenty of good choice elsewhere, including 2nd hand. At the end of the day us model railers just want the relaxing pleasure of seeing a few trains running around nicely, not getting stressed doing autopsies or returning locos for repair only to get another duff replacement. In general the industry needs to wake up, stop charging a lot of money for complete dross & unnecessary "detail" & just make something that looks great & works. Happy modelling! 🙂
I don't mind messing with a 50 year old Minitrix but I'll be damned if I'll put up with crap straight out of the box. I've seen so many problems with Dapol now on youtube. Even Sams Trains had some issues with derailing. I was looking at the size of the flanges and they are very shallow. Some things should be made over size and flanges are one of them. Sad to hear the company now taking complaints seriously, that was the main reason I went back to the retailer - he can have the headache of dealing with them. Another annoying feature is lack of spares and yet GraFar do spares for locos going back years. Thanks for the comment.
It is weird with Dapol stem locomotives, some people seem to have no issues whereas others have a tale of woe. Sadly I fall in to the latter category and decided several years ago that I would not buy anymore. Dapol’s general quality control is also poor although their rolling stock is good.
It all looks very good plus they do GWR but if it doesn't run right it's worthless. I'm going to stick with GraFar from now on. It seems to be a common problem with the tender locos and that shaft drive.
I have two Granges, and they're both awful runners. However, reference your problem, I found it was caused by the bogie hitting the chassis and causing the derailment. I recommend removing the bogie and try running it as an 0-6-0 and see if it goes round your curves then? If it does, cut away the dummy frames at the front so that neither bogie axle can touch them, and you may find that cures the problem. It won't help my jerky running problem which seems to be something to do with the gears. I haven't had time to investigate yet. Sadly, I too am terribly disappointed with Dapol locomotives as a whole. I've tried sending them back to UK for repair but they have always been returned without improvement, often worse. James in Oregon
James, being across the pond makes life very difficult for you. In the comments people have said how poor the after sales service is. Must be a nightmare for you. That is why I took it back to the shop - they at least will know how to deal with Dapol better than I. If I had bought an old one from ebay I would investigate and fix the problem. I'm not going to fix one straight out of the box, it should be perfect from new. I've looked at the flanges and they look so shallow compared to other manufacturers. Flanges in N gauge should be bigger and not 1:144 scale. Best of luck with your problems.
@@56NeilWatson I can't stand the noise of the ones that do work. The new Graham Farishs I have bought have been practically silent. Plus I don't have to repair them. Cheers
@@56NeilWatson I wouldn't like to say what is the exact problem with this one but I had 2 and they both failed. Off ebay I would fix it, brand new it goes back.
Hi Simon! Oh dear! What a disaster! Reading the other comments you're not alone! It actually looks like a lovely model, but if it doesn't run, what's the point? I've got a Dapol A4 on pre-order, and will have to wait and see if it's as disastrous as this! I'll give it a chance, otherwise, like you, I'll be sticking with GF! Cheers, Ian.
Hello Ian, I've had some problems with Dapol. The s models I got of this. The Schools class started derailing. The Britannia class derails in reverse. The diesel I have is wonderful so I put it down to the shaft drive and weighting of the loco. Either way I'm not risking any more money on them. Cheers
The 2 I had of this model should never of left the factory. No QC at all. Plus it's not the only Dapol model I have had trouble with. Very upset about that and will rely on GraFar from now on.
@@ngaugeonashelf4417 Their OO gauge Class 73 is a very quirky beast and much criticised, although it does have a lot going for it. Dapol adopted a ridiculous pick up system which basically results in the contacts getting covered in grease and then slipping off the axles altogether. When that problem is overcome, it runs beautifully and is a very nice model. I'm not averse to making allowances for things like that if the price is right, but they really need to get their quality control and R&D sorted out.
You said it, a real shame. I have a number of Dapol diesels, all are great runners, and well detailed. The pannier tank I have however derails mid corner often. Their tender locos I would never buy based on all I have read and seen. Be good to know what you replaced it with!
I am learning the hard way. The tank I have seen on another channel and they too had running problems. I was going to get the GraFar 5MT in green but he couldn't find it amongst his stock so I got a 2MT in green instead and £13 credit back on my card. I have a thing about the 2MT and smaller locos.
Not my job to make it better. Dapol should have some quality control. I took it back and replaced it. This is not the first one to give me trouble. The Schools class was just as bad and is gone. I'm not overly impressed with the Britannia class either. I thought it was my track laying but everything else runs with no problems. It's just Dapol steam engines. Cheers
Most of the Dapol whingers never show us their track. Unless you have spotless rails, properly fitted joiners and uninterrupted power you'll always have trouble.
@@ngaugeonashelf4417 "I would say the wheel flanges are too shallow." You have a point there. There are one or two manufacturers adopting this design with shallow flanging. Might look more realistic but pointless if they keep derailing over points, crossings and tighter curves. I'm afraid you'll just have to adopt my tactic, just don't buy them. 😮💨
@@TheSps24 Some things should be oversize. Larger than scale. Flanges and couplings seem to be 2 of those items. I was going to be buying a Dapol train pack this summer. I'll save my money now. Cheers.
To this day, N-scale is really much better with diesel and electric locomotives, than with many steamers. That kind of drive in tender with a shaft to the drive wheels in the locomotive is sadly a stubborn thing for some makers. It produces torque, that can toss any engine, especially going through switches! I do not have British types, but a lot of German models by Arnold, Minitrix, Fleischmann/Roco, Piko, Brawa, and Kato/Hobbytrain. My old Arnold locomotives from the 80s, mostly designs from the 70s, are the least fussy of all my locomotives! They may run a wee fast for scale speed, but they do so very smoothly! The state of many modern N-scale model designs is appalling, considering past experiences! However, if you ever run into North American models made in America or anywhere in Asia in the last century, just skip them altogether, because it is mostly total junk! Here is where Kato shines with their new gear, which actually is indeed not just new, but really improved. As far as my German collection is concerned, the last few models I bought around 7 years ago or so, because they have gotten ridiculously expensive, and discount sales dried up. I am just happy my DB and DR collection is past counting, and my Amtrak stable is also filling nicely, thanks to Kato
The price of this stuff is going up exponentially! WHich was one of the appeals of buying Dapol, always that bit cheaper. Now I see why. Diesels just don't do it for me. All the modern trains look like they came out of a jelly mould. Thay all look alike, which is of course a product of efficient stream lining. I can't love them at all. Cheers
Watching Sams trains the other day and he also had exactly the same problems, that tie bar does not look right to me Never bought a Dapol loco as they don't do early LMS..
I saw that on Sams and left a comment. I don't know if it's the wheels, the flanges, the tie bar or the shaft drive. All I know is it should run right straight out of the box. Cheers
Greetings Simon 🖐It is such a shame they persist with such a bad design 👻It will be interesting to see how their Battle Of Britain loco performs, if it every arrives 🙄Very best wishes to The Attic from the Emerald Isle ☘
Hello Paul, I will never know about the battle of britain as they will not be seeing the colour of my money again. There was 3 other locos I wanted but I'm not taking the risk anymore. Cheers
If you ride the train from Gloucester to Bristol Temple Meads you will find out what a corner is as you slow down to 15mph to get round it. That's a corner.
Hello, I have the same problem with class66, it has no rubber tires on the wheels and with a larger number of wagons it won't even climb a 2% hill, shame on dapol... they should at least make rubber tires on a pair of wheels...!!!
Dapol locos are known for derailing, both in n and oo. I had an n gauge class 73 and all it did was jump the tracks. I also bought the first Hymek when it first came out and also the new Farish class 37 which was far superior in running quality.
When i look closely my thoughts are the flanges are too shallow. I don't know about OO so can't comment on that. When I compare Dapol to GraFar and MInitrix and Peco it's rearly obvious. Cheers
@@DavidJones-wx4im I don't know what a Hymek is I'm afraid. My knowledge is limited. I know on code 80 you can have problems with large flanges hitting the chairs. I know that isn't my problem that I have here. Cheers
@@DavidJones-wx4im Oh right, thankyou. I love this hobby, there is always someone who knows the answer to any question. I shall delve into google and read up on it. Thanks
I’ve a Rivarossi Scot that’s is 50 years plus old. It’s tender shaft drive driven. Runs and sounds much much better than that N gauge loco. Even has lights! Such a shame from a new loco. Don’t they do pre production checks?
I've never owned a Rivarossi, I guess I have nver seen them in shops. The old Peco tender drive I had for a while was very good. The loco part had enough to be pushed and stay on the track. Some of these old locos are brilliant and so easy to clean and lube. I only let the Peco go because spares were non existant. Which isn't surprising on such an old loco. I don't know what their quality controls are but judging by the comments they are most definately poor. Cheers
I think they have the design wrong. Put the motor in the tender and drive the tender, put the motor in the engine and drive the engine. I really do think there is an issue with the drive shaft and obviously quality control. The first one I had was worse than a 50 year old Minitrix that hasn't been run for 40 years. I got rid of it straight away as it was the second one that wouldn't go round corners. Cheers
I had around 7 Dapol Tender Locos, Sold the lot except one. Nothing but a constant arse around everytime you want to run them, I have 1 left, funny enough it's a Grange too, and yep, it's crap. Tender Drive went out of fashion in 1971 because it's a crap idea. Their Westcountry Classes are out soon. £180.00. Not going to risk it then ? haha.
I am not averse to tender drive if they put enough weight in the loco. I just think it's that bloody awful shaft drive idea. The Minitrix i have doesn't like being stood for a month and I always give the motor a little clean. 5 minute job. But I can't be arsed with Dapol any more. I'll give their new stuff a miss and just wait for Farish to put out new locos. Cheers
@@ngaugeonashelf4417 The problem with tender drive is that it is pushing at a central point from behind the loco, so as the front starts to go around a curve the tender is still trying to push the rear of the main loco straight until the tender gets on the curve with it, even then it's still upsetting the balance, trying to push straight at the point where the loco and tender bend. larger scales might be more successful with it, but N Gauge not so much in my opinion. it's a shame that their tender locos are so tempramental, Dapol Locos look fantastic. I think it's time they got the motors in the loco itself and the DCC in the tender. I hope the new Westcountry Class are not tender drive, but suspect they will be sadly. If so, you can count me out too. Good Luck.
@@chuffinel7676 From what I have read in the comments it can be the shaft that wants to stay straight. Plus the wires between the loco and tender that can interfere as well. The diesels run well as they have neither of these problems. Whatever it is I will keep my money in my pocket until it's fixed. Cheers
One approach is to seek a refund. The problems are 1/ from where are you going to get another 'Grange'? 2/ You don't grow. 3/ You can't help anyone else with the same problem. I took it back is an unlucky answer. 4/ I do not like being beaten!!!!!!!!!! Especially by one of these things. Having said that, I'm not sure even Bugs Bunny himself could solve some of the terminal pickup un-designs on some models. But we are yet to investigate the same on this loco. Here are some ideas, perhaps not for you; perhaps for you? 1/ Remember the test layout is not yours. Build your layout 'around' the locos you have. I bet the loco will work for you. If not: solve the problem. Think about large radius curves; a good way to look at N is that it builds HO layout designs to what they should be. For example: the minima (big word) on a sensible HO layout might be no 6 turnouts (NOT on curves) and 24" curves with transitions. Ok: do that in N. Your running problems will likely evaporate. It is a bit like respecifying (another big word) the HO design to 50" curves and no 8 turnouts in round figures. Think about going around the wall (not up it). Even in a smallish room that does wonders. Just make sure your removable access bridge does not bar the door from opening from the outside. Perhaps swing the door outwards - If you have a heart attack or accident people must be able to get in and get you out. 2/ Join an engineering oriented club. Modelling is a developmental sequence rather than a buying exercise. The manufacturers need our support, not raspberries. From where I stand that Grange is a wonderful start that means I don't have to scratchbuild. See it as a kit assembled to a minimum standard so discerning modellers like you can refine. See it all as a chance for growth. My qualification for commenting is that I have made more mistakes than anyone else; not quite the throwaway line it seems. If these ideas do not apply: throw them. Thanks for sharing.
Hello Peter, a comprehensive reply. First it has gone back and been exchanged. Like any product if it isn't right out of the box I take it straight back. This was the second one so my patience was nil. One thing I would say about my curves and my awful track laying is that Dapol is the only manufacturer that struggles. I therefore blame Dapol. I am not a modellor. I have no skills. I can watch youtube and pick up tips from other youtubers but I will never be a modellor. To be honest I'm not sure I want to be either. It's a hobby and I do my best with these fists of ham and my limited eyesight. However, there is nothing more peasurable than taking a Minitrix non runner and making it run. Maybe because I'm an electro mechanical enginner (although I fly a desk these days and don't get my hands dirty). I understand low voltage DC and moving parts. I will not be modifying this layout. In fact this layout will be dismantled. It was a learning curve to going on to bigger and better things. Including better curves. Small boards require set track curves, large boards do not. But I am no modellor, I will not be scratch building anything and I will simply do my best with what I have. Now if you want to see serious then watch my golf channel and me hitting a 20 foot putt with 12 feet of break downhill. Now then I'm an artist, but not with railways. Thanks for your input. You are kind.
@@ngaugeonashelf4417 Thanks for your reply. There has been a win here: someone liked. That is the point of all this: someone was encouraged as I often am, and frequently from comments. It is a great way to spread encouragement. Two things come to mind. There is confusion over the 'test' layout - I misunderstood 'This isn't my track'. The comment was about layout specs and was not a criticism. My fault, like everything else - excepting Golf. Secondly, congratulations on making non-running classical Minitrix run. My recent Minitrix history could be the subject of its own Oscar worthy horror film. It appears that Marklin cylindrical commutator brushes can be easily 'sized' to replace the Minitrix non-soldered brushes, and probably also the soldered brushes if plated first. Increasingly, and across the board, we cannot get spares. Utube is greatly useful in encouraging folk to get their old and second-hand models running: hopefully my comments were of use to someone mired in some 'Tropic of Calculus' somewhere (Tom Lehrer's idiom). I take a lot of good ideas from RUclips and have made at least one friend. Comments are my way of giving at least something back. The comment previous to yours was on a Lima Cl. 50. Again: last I looked no brushes available though there might be now. That channel is providing something that matters for a lot of modellers. As with me, he is not an expert, but his channel is of value. As someone with engineering experience, have you got any ideas on a raw material from which to make brushes, or are the variations in specific applications so variable as to make the question effectively unanswerable? One modeller uses old washing machine brushes for raw material; others starter motors etc.. The problem is we don't know what the factory specs for either the train or the 'washing machine' are/were. As I keep warning about a lot of what goes on modifying models: everything we do shifts the device away from factory settings; settings that were originally signed off by an engineer. Hence the question, and I think I know what the answer will be. Of course, let's remember that even just age steadily shifts a model from factory settings - magnet atrophy alone will do that. I notice one approach to isolating the brushes while 'DCCing' a certain loco involves feeding the traction current through a now isolated brush spring. If anyone is following this string the subject of traction current through brush springs is thoroughly and professionally dealt with by Dave Ramirez in ruclips.net/video/E5W0xy2SMyM/видео.html Folk seldom listen. The meaty bit comes in the discussion after the repair. At least locos, repaired or not, should be regularly common-sense duration tested for heat buildup, and when in use subject to a conservative duty cycle. If you feel this is enough in your area and time permits, comments would be appreciated. Yours in the interest of encouraging sensible and affordable modelling. Much enjoyed - even if it is by computer. Don't forget to check blood-pressure after Golf. g
@@petert9749 Hello again Peter. The trouble with print is what is intended is lost in black and white characters. My experience with Minitrix brushes contains an awful lot of swearing and not much progress. They are so fiddly and I try to clean around them. One time I had a set pop out of the spring while cleaning and it took me over 40 minutes to get the damn things back in. If i had some serious trouble with a minitrix motor I would try and source one from ebay. In fact I have one now waiting patiently for parts. One youtuber I watch a lot of is OO Bill who repairs OO scale locos. It's larger, it's easier but is still helpful in N gauge. The biggest problem I see in N gauge with non runners is oil. The loco runs poorly so gets drowned in oil which makes it worse. Then I get a loco on ebay for cheap and clean it and get it back to running. Then I might sell it on for twice what I paid for it. As to replacment brush material, not sure. Best just to replace the brushes for new. But they will need running in as they will be flat and the commutator is round. I haven't done any DCC conversions as I don't run DCC. Not that I don't like it - I simply cannot afford it nor do I wish to chop up the wiring of my old locos. They are touchy enough without me making matters worse. However, I did buy a DCC non runner loco off ebay very cheap. I took the chip out and put in a blanking plate and it ran fine. I contacted the seller and told them what the resolution was and asked them if they wanted it back. I put it on with a buy it now price and he clicked the button to buy it back at the same price. He replaced the chip himself. When I get in the attic I'm going to record every step this time rather than skip ahead a month. I didn't do it on this as I didn't have the confidence to show off my awful skills! They are still awful but this time I will show how awful they are. Cheers
@@ngaugeonashelf4417 Forty minutes! That is a brilliant effort; it took me longer than that to not find the brush springs. Your comments on replacing brushes with new was very much appreciated. Without factory specs it is about all we can say. As far a I know classical Minitrix brushes are no longer available and nobody has made reproductions. I know nothing of modern production Minitrix. I'm rattling my tiny mind to think of anything we have not said between us that might help an information hungry beginner. Old equipment is iffy. Further more, you never know when a kid is going to get hold of this stuff, so there is an imperative to make safe. I suppose duration (an hour or so) running to check for heat buildup is about as good as we can do. If a Minitrix works it is probably worth taking an Ebay punt on buying. Watch price; some of it is sold for way too much - I cut out at about 20 of your pounds. If inspection is possible look for condition of the pickup wipers on the wheels. Minitrix are about the only company in my experience who well manage wipers pressing on the wheels. Most non Minitrix of the era and many modern products I have seen (note the condition) have 'knife blade' wipers that lose tension and then contact. Insult is added to injury as the transfer to frame is via the top of the wiper, usually a bent loop, springing against the frame. Like the wheel contact tension is lost and so reliable contact. Remember this only my experience. Classical Minitrix have a wiper to transfer from bogie to a pad under the fuel tank. Often this loses tension. Easily fixed: just 'hard' wire with thin soft wire. These products are now at least forty years since: I don't know how much magnet life is left in the motors; neither do I know if one of Ronald Dodd's wonderful remagnetisers will work as there are two magnets nestled at opposite sides of the 'can'. For scratch building, modifying the chassis or remounting the components into a scratchbuilt chassis are for experienced modellers. Anyone following our string, just believe it! Let's just say it is not a job for a migraine day. No golf course is as difficult. Don't be afraid to pick up non runners for spares: when playing with all this I swapped out the rubber tyred wheels for non tyred. Rubber tyres are probably not replaceable at this distance and they play havoc with pickup. Common practice is to mount wheels in a drill/Dremel chuck for turning down, but this is fraught: a drill is not a lathe (ask at a club). Also remember these models have coarse wheel standards, and fitting Microscale couplers can be difficult, especially if you want frame mounting. These models are 'unit design' and are not made to be worked on. These are old models and old designs. For control (non DCC) ask around RUclips or a club for advice on a good pulse/transistor throttle. I use Don Hansen's 'Throttle with a Future' from Kalmbach 'Model Railroader', June? 1975 for Half 'O' and N scale testing. It has a pulse circuit for starting and stopping the trains, but it can be turned off leaving main sequence running to smooth DC. I believe the components are still available, and if you can't build one alone, join a club. Always check heat. It turns a good loco into a really good loco, but a junker is still a junker. TEST! If it does not work under your conditions, you have gained experience and lost little. My power-supply is an old Triang P5A transformer, and all has been checked out by a qualified person. The Americans are lucky: they have Kato/Atlas, and a good used market. If you get a chance, have a long look at the Kato design, especially the pickup and current transfer from bogie to frame. Brilliant! Thanks to our host; would other viewers PLEASE share their experiences: it helps. For example someone shared the difficulties in moving classical Minitrix worms. It really helped, as did demonstrating turning down flanges. And yes: 'OO Bill' is excellent, as is 'Mr Snooze'. Also, for those struggling with eyesight and dexterity, try 'The Third Rail'. Yes it is Marklin, and No, it does not have to break the bank. Under limited space conditions, Marklin set-track can be seen as a form of N scale. Also remember Dave Ramirez' Warbonnet Trains' on servicing that Kato steamer. It includes a professional treatment of brush springs and how to run models. Would viewers PLEASE share experiences! And keep sharing. There is nothing wrong with being wrong; the only people who never muck up don't muck up because they never do anything. We just need to carefully alert to anything dangerous. Hope this helps someone. Thanks host.
It certainly does. I've looked back at videos of the Dapol Britannia class, the Dapol Schools class and they both had derailing problems. I know I'm crap at laying track and ballesting but it's only Dapol that struggles. As well as that awful shaft drive I think the flanges are too shallow. Cheers
i only own one Dapol loco- the 9F, it took me 3 attempts at buying to get a runner and the final one was a second model from ebay , they are overly noisy whereas mf GF loco are silent, i hate the cardan shaft as it just looks ugly and you cannot detail the cab area , i hate it when there is a big announcement of a new loco but it's dapol, oh well never mind , very much looking forward to the GF lms twins diesels .
I cannot agree more. I know people complain about GraFar being more expensive but I haven't had a problem with them. I'd rather buy a 1970's Minitrix and get it going than but a new Dapol. My other issue with them is the small couplings which let go too easy. Ah well, going to the GraFar day out and will see what they have for sale there. Then I might just dump the other 2 Dapols I have on ebay and cut my losses. Another problem is lack of spares.
@@ngaugeonashelf4417 i have just noticed after getting this reply but look at the model in the first seconds of the video whilst still boxed, the number plate on the cab side is applied at a wonky angle , lol .
@@gavinblackburn3105 I did notice that myself. It's just poorly done. Poor design and poor execution. I don't know where they are made but it looks like cheap hong kong christmas cracker stuff.
It went back and was exchanged for a GraFar. These things should run correct right out of the box. I got told I should run it in. How? It didn't make the first corner!
My Dapol railcar is really nice, runs very well. But I'll be damned if I can find spares for it. I have no idea how you make models and not provide spares. I'm not happy.
Hi ya. What a shame looks a pretty model but no good if you can't use it. I'm oo and my Dapol diesels do have a bit of a problem with whining. Thanks for sharing buddy. Sorry for your disappointment. .... Pete....
It happens Pete. I think it's a poor design. Wouldn't surprise me if I had looked into it to find it's the shaft drive causing it rather than wheel spacing.
Ok I can already see problems with the mechanism the fact that they used the old drive shaft tactic Should not have been used Bachmann made N. scale 0-6-0s with Scale proportions And the motor inside the engine And the motor on this engine is noisy
@@chasesrailwaylinesrr6447 Sorry if I miss read what you wrote. Not had this many comments before even on my golf channel. The brain skipping the words a bit. Cheers
John, it seems to be very common. I have al ittle more faith in my awful track laying now. The flanges look so shallow, never going to make it round a set track corner like that. Minitrix will go round a rad 1 curve and point.
I've got a Dapol Castle & a County in OO gauge, older locos now but they run great, well I'm only running N gauge on 1st and 2nd radius my GF stuff run's okay, I've got a couple of Dapol diesels and they run fine, I'm also not keen on the Dapol steam locos, the shaft on the A4 keeps popping out so if you don't connect everytime it just spins, if I'd have known when I bought it for my grandson brand new well words fail me it's a bag of yeah you know, John
@@johnbill9201 John, they are bad. I've got 1 Dapol diesel left which I like and runs well. In the steam I have the GWR 2-8-0 which is just about acceptable. Then the Britannia which really doesn't like bends at all. I might sell that one. In fact I will. I'd rather get something from Farish. Cheers
Bloody awful. When I run the GWR 2800 it ruins the sound which means editing a video becomes hard work. Having to turn it down in every clip. In reverse it sounded worse if that's possible. Then I buy a GraFar and it's so quiet and smooth. I know who will get my money in future.
I am sorry to hear that they let you down. I had one of their Class 50 models and a Class 66 and both ran without flaws. With new nano motors available. I was expecting to see the model be locomotive drive with the motor mounted at the front. I had an O Gauge Jinty for a bit on evaluation with a flickering firebox and it ran well. But it shows that Dapol dropped the ball on this one this time around. I used to own a Dapol Class 67 back in 2010/2011 and the motor was loud and noisy! I swapped it out for a Kato motor and that sure improved performance and no more grinding noise either. The motor I used came from an SD40-2 that was a non runner. So I used it for parts to get the Class 67 working.
The diesels run just fine, but then they don't have that shaft drive. Sams Trains on youtube tested some Dapol steamers in N gauge and he had problems as well. My Britannia class I have finally found the problem and will be selling it. If you put the motor in the tender then drive the tender! It's not rocket science. They found a solution to a problem that doesn't exist.
@@ngaugeonashelf4417 To be honest with you buddy. Dapol needs to retool that model and others like that because they will get less flack from the community and get more sales if they value their customers and not take them for granted 😔. Just my two cents on the matter.
@@BritishRail60062 I wanted to collect them as they have a few GWR models. But I'm not risking a penny now. Their loss for a stupid idea.
I bought one second hand it was cheap and great in a straight line not around corners. It turned out the front bogie was hitting the chassis frame. I filed out the frame a bit where the curves for the wheels were and it runs great now.
I would investigate if I had bought a second hand one. As it's new it was much easier to take it back and exchange for a GraFar. I wont be buying any more of them. I think that shaft drive is the worst idea I've ever seen.
@@ngaugeonashelf4417 Surely there must be a locomotive chassis, that is powered in the loco, that could be made to fit the body? Can you get a Manor GWR loco driven from any other manufacturer? Maybe time to check out Shapeways, and Thingiverse. There are some on Shapeways, one around £60. 4mm scale, but a lot of creators do re-scale their models.
Yes, my problem exactly, and solution :-) James in Oregon
@@jamesritson1518 It's a common solution - take it back and get a Farish.
As a casual observer, I think a contributor to this is what in a fwd car is called ‘torque steer’, where the actions of the drive shaft and UJ will steer the front wheels. In this case, it’s ‘steering’ the loco off the track. Just a thought.
The flanges are very shallow too. Probably a combination of things. Either way, if it doesn't run out of the box it goes back. Not my problem to fix. Cheers
I have 2 Dapol steamer s.A 9F an A4. Bought secondhand, both DCC. Both are noisy runners and derail easily.
However,I’ve replaced the motor on the A4 with a cordless and fitted a Hornby tts sound decoder. It is currently my favourite loco as it runs beautifully.
I found some derailing issues were because the wires connecting tender/loco don’t flex enough and because these weigh nothing (compared to a Farish), they were literally tripping it up.
Glad you got one sorted. There seems to be so many possibilities as to why it's happening. All I know is it seems very common.
The best running n gauge locos I have, (Bachmann) both have tender drive wheels with the motor in it.
I don't mind tender drive, Hornby have been doing it for years. Now N gauge motors are smaller and better no reson not to do it at all. But that damn shft drive to the loco doesn't really work. It's trying to fix a problem that doesn't exist. I've since been told if the shaft is not located correctly or has flash on it or the 2 sockets have flash on them the loco will derail. That isn't good. Cheers
I had the same issue, and it was a tiny bit of flash on the Carden shaft or the coupling (I can't remember which) . Once I cleaned it up and made sure it was all free it ran (and still runs) brilliant! I think I also pushed the coupling onto the motor shaft a little too which helps with clearance. I agree it's not brilliant on a new loco, but I bought mine second hand and was willing to do a bit of work on it. The one advantage of the system is that the loco weight is higher on the driving wheels, I have a Farish castle and while a lovely loco it struggles with traction if more than 4 coaches are behind it!
I am so disappointed with Dapol. If it cost £50 I would try and find out why it is derailing. But £157 straight out of the factory? Not my job to make sure it runs correctly. This is not the first one I have had trouble with, GraFar runs fine straight out of the box so I will stick with them from now on.
We were discussing problems like this at the Swindon Model Railway Club a few days ago. N gauge steam locomotives are getting more and more detailed, but they are also getting lighter, and don't run anywhere near as well as the older loco's do. Take for example Union Mills loco's - they lack the detail of the latest releases, but they look perfectly acceptable at scale speeds and, because they weigh more, they pull a decent rake of coaches or trucks, and don't come off the rails as often!
I can make an old Minitrix run sweetly but I'm not happy with a new one that runs poorly straight out of the box. I would agree they are getting lighter. You can do an awful lot with a modern plastic mold but you've got to put the weight back in there. Hello from just down the road from you. Or is it up? Cheers
@@ngaugeonashelf4417 Depends on whether you are north or south of Swindon! 😄
@@PaulB-justme I'm up in Glosser where they can't speak english!
I agree all my steam models are Union Mills Steam Locos bar one and are excellent runners with plenty of pull. I've only ever returned one loco back to UM for a new motor at a nominal charge. I do have a Farish Castle which is excellent. My Dapol Diesel Class 25 isn't great and kept derailing until I removed some pieces. However my Dapol 00 gauge GWR Streamlined Railcars are good.
@user-nc3bz3jm5q I have an older Minitrix LNER A4. I know that the chassis comes from a continental loco, so officially is the wrong size for an A4 - but it is heavy and powerful, and pulls a rake of 10 coaches with ease, even on the slight slopes on the model railway clubs exhibition layout, as do the Union Mills locos!
There's something badly wrong when you buy a brand new loco, unbox it, put it on your layout and then ask yourself, "will it run", not knowing whether it will or won't. What are Dapol's diesels like compared to the steam? I hear lots of bad things about Dapol steam.
It's not a question you should be asking yourself after parting with £150. I have a 122 and it's great. No problems at all. There is a channel called 'Ians N gauge' and he swears by them.
@@ngaugeonashelf4417 Thanks, I'll check out the channel.
I agree poor motor arrangement the drive shaft needs to be more flexible and the loco heavier perhaps for this set up to work but ultimately the motor is better in the loco!
Works very well, when run it, I have 6 and 5 9fs too, all run perfectly...
I think they need to get rid of that shaft drive. Thinking about it now I wouldn't be surprised if it's the tail wagging the dog and it's the shaft making the loco come off.
@@paulkandi I'm curious to know how you run in a loco that won't stay on the track? I had a Dapol Britannia which was a pile of... and that wouldn't even stay on a rolling road. The advice to return it is good advice (I tried to fix mine which was definitely a bad idea).
Totally agree. I stopped buying N gauge Dapol years ago. I only buy dummy's or cheap spares and repairs, never full price as I know they'll let me down. And they do. I'm mostly run diesels and electrics and for me running DC, every time the Dapol loco derails it takes the head/tail lights out too.
Real garbage. The detail is also lack luster. Just compare the detail netween the bogies on the Dapol 153/156 to the farish 150 or Revolution 128.
I've got 2 left now. They are noisy runners and the one does derail from time to time. I'm still in 2 minds over whether I keep them or not. I will see how they perform on the new layout when the track is laid much later in the year. But my trust is gone like yourself.
Sounds rough as well.
It's common with Dapols. All those drive bits going round and round. It might of sounded better if I could of run it in. But it wouldn't run. Catch 22.
This video gave me a good laugh, if not one of uneasy validation. I attempted British N gauge two years ago - Dapol's Schools class loco was one of many that caught my eye as it's a very beautiful model however when I took a closer look at the experiences of people who'd owned it, I learned of many distressing tales of horrendous QC, especially the Locomotive's tendancy to self destruct its own valve gear when the pony truck derailed, I was even more shocked to see Dapol was actually made aware of this on their own forum and their response essentially boiled down to "oh well - Just don't derail the model then I suppose" absolutely unacceptable. Since then I only ran Graham Farish but I found too many of my models having a poor wheel spacing similar to yours in the video and being too hard to repair as all my spares had to be exported to Canada, of which there are few available for purchase online. in the end I gave up the scale and switched to a downsized OO setup, far less distressing haha.
I had one of those Schools. It had the same struggle and it had to go. Which was sad. I've read a few things about the Dapol forum and them not taking responsibility. The only GraFar I had a problem with was the Fairburn tank. It just wouldn't run straight, too many joints in the rear pony for my liking. But everything else is fine. My eyes are telling me I need to go OO if only to see what I'm doing but I'm too far down the N rabbit hole now. Cheers
I Had the same problem with N Gauge, 5 years or more, still unreliable track work and locos, so I just sold it all and went for O Gauge, Wow! what a difference! Dapol Pannier with factory fitted sound, Brilliant! The engineering in their O Gauge models is top drawer, I couldn't be happier!
@@alanwhite6293 The larger scales are easier to model but I like my little stuff and it's too late to change now.
New to the hobby got my track down and bought a dapol as my first loco and having a hell of a job getting it round a lap without hitting problems reckon it will be a GF next
I've got 4 GraFar and not a problem. Smooth and quiet runners. I also have 2 older ones which are fine and I'm bidding on old one now too on ebay. No complaints with Farish. Cheers.
Got 7 dapol diesels 3x50s ,a western ,2x 68s and a class 22 they run beautiful a lot better than the farish twin but i did have a hymek and a class 66 which where both returned . Also had 2 steamers a 9f and a britannia they were both disasters both returned same problem no good backwards just derailed . so is it hit and miss with the diesels and downright crap with the tender steamers ???
I've heard some good things about the diesels, but they aren't my cup of tea so will never find out. The shaft drive on the steamers is a huge problem and it can be easily avoided. Just design it with the motor above the driven wheels. I have 2 left now and the axe may well fall on both of them.
I have a Dapol steam locos and I’m somewhat mixed with them. My BR standard class 7 and 9, they run pretty poor because of all the gears but my Schools, M7 and Terrier seem to have no issues. I do want the Bullied Pacific but I’m very hesitant
I had a schools. Same problem with corners. It's gone now.
The number plate looks to be not level on the cab, or could that be an elusion?
It wasn't, you are correct. It was dissapointing all round. Cheers
I sympathise. I have only one Dapol, an Ivatt 2-6-2. First and last. It's very pretty but wouldn't run under a scale 200mph. I re motored it and it runs a lot better, the Dapol motor was just junk. But it still rock and rolls because the wheels aren't concentric.
They are pretty poor. This is not the first one that has given me trouble. I will not be buying anything more from them. Plus their spares situation is a joke.
I agree. My only good running Dapol locos are my Class 68 & 86. I sold all my Dapol steamers except Britannia but I rarely run it in case I break yet another plastic drive coupling. I used to say that their rolling stock was OK, but after the poor running O&K JHAs & other issues, I recently decided not to buy any more new Dapol products as the quality control is questionable.
The diesels seem to be fine. Everyone singing their praises. I have one myself. But the steamers just aren't right. Even Sams Train said so. It's not just me who has problems with them.
One tiny comment - a Grange was more of a small wheeled Hall than a Manor - OK, a Manor with a Hall boiler if you prefer it that way round.
I was close but no cigar. I think I read it in advertising blurb.
Except some of the granges re-used wheels and motion from moguls.
@@532bluepeter1 Perhaps if mine had it might of gone round the bloody corner! 🤣🤣
@@ngaugeonashelf4417Have you checked other comments here about tweaking the universal joint?
@@532bluepeter1 I did read them. I'm under no obiligation to fix their quality control. Any more than I would with any other product of any type. It's either 100% or it goes back, like a fridge, a tv or a wardrobe whose doors don't close properly. Cheers
Personally I try not to buy new Dapol Steam engines due to the hit an miss quality. But I do have a number of them in my collection (A4, 28xx, Britannia, 9F, Q1 etc) mostly purchased 2nd hand, a lot as non runners. Worst case, I swap out the cr*p motor for a coreless one, but they've all polished up lovely and are good runners. If you have the skill and patience, they can make cheap but excellent models.
Their latest diesels though, ie the Class 50 is simply superb and an easy match, if not better, in some respects than the latest offerings from Farish.
I've bought 4 Dapol steam engines. I have 2 left and those are not perfect runners at all. The Britannia didn't get it's half hour in reverse when running in as it derails in reverse. I've had my fill of them now. Cheers
Just watched your video with a rye smile because I have had the same problem with Dapol steam locomotives. The first thing to do is to replace the motor with one from a company called Tramfabriek, they are much smoother and quieter. Check that the thin wires that go between the tender and the loco are not caught in the coupling and that the coupling has free movement at both ends. Finally check that the yoke on the shaft of the motor is pushed on far enough to allow the drive shaft to have movement and there are not plastic burrs on the parts.
Dapol can produce excellent models as pdoved with the class 50 and 68, but they also produce some terrors.
I have 9 class 52 locos, only one has the original motor in. I have four Hymeks and all of the motors have gone up in smoke. The last one didbt even get an hours running in ! Graham Farish are no better either !
Dapol won't talk to me about the issues which they know they have !
I solved the problem by taking this second one back and changing for a Graham Farish. They seem to work far better. I don't mind working on a 50 year old non runner MInitrix but I'll be damned if I'm working on a brand new one. Cheers
With Dapol's back up being so poor it's easier and quicker to repair them myself.
@@PiddleInTheMarshbyMarkIreland That's why I went to the shop. Let them deal with it rather than me getting stone walled. Funnily I'm looking across the screen and one of the recomended videos for me is about Dapol reliability. Seems to be a common problem. Cheers
@@ngaugeonashelf4417 I have complained so much to Dapol they now won't talk to me.
But I am claiming a victory because their new Class 59 and 66 have the motors from the Class 50 which are great.
@@PiddleInTheMarshbyMarkIreland I'm claiming victory by not giving them hard earned any more.
Fixed numerous Granges - front bogie lifting drivers giving poor pickup is common, but is an easy fix.
If I had got from ebay I would try to fix it. Brand new I'm not putting up with a non runner. It went back like the one before it. They have lost a customer and judging by the comments I'm not the only one. Cheers
All locos, whatever scale or gauge need the average of 1 hour running in, 30 minutes in both directions...as directed by the factory:....I was a loco builder for over 25 years and always ran my customers locos for at least 2 hours, before delivery...
I can see, by your video, that the loco is trying to get round those curves, the more you run it, the more it will " bed in " ..
The drive shaft linkage is new, and will need to be run in, I am sure it will improve within couple of hours, stick with it, I have many all DCC fitted and run smooth and reliable ..they are good mechanisms...good luck..
It's gone Paul, as is the one before it that it replaced. Everything new I've had had been no problem. Light oil, 30 minutes each way. Except Dapol steam engines. They all struggle. I can get a 50 year old Minitrix non runner going but not a Dapol that is brand new. It wasn't just this one, it's been every one. Cheers.
@@ngaugeonashelf4417 I fully agree with your taking the problematic NEW loco back. Dapol need to learn and improve their standards.Anything NEW should perform fine from day one and should not need running in just in order to get it to function properly !
It is a real shame that you have had these problems with your Dapol N gauge locomotives. I have purchased quite a few locomotives from them and I have been absolutely delighted with them although I have to admit that they are ‘O’ gauge. It is a shame that they have a problem with the smaller gauge. Regards from Ron
@@RonCooper-nl4pn Morning Ron, it seems there are lot of different experiences with Dapol. The only experience we should have is that they work properly straight out of the box. Cheers
Just picking you up on your comment on tender drive. You Will find many of the more recent steam tender locos by Graham Farish are tender driven.
It's not so much the motor in tender as that shaft drive I think. I've got a Farish standard 5 which is tender drive and it's wonderful. The Peco I had was tender drive and worked really well. I only sold it due to lack of spares. Cheers
Hi Simon, that was a disappointment then. At least we got to see the layout looking good. Are you really going to dismantle it, seems a shame. Ron
Morning Ron, when you consider how much they cost a bit of quality control wouldn't go amiss. But it does seem to be a problem with Dapol. I have seen so many negative comments on other peoples videos it seems to be a common problem. Sadly the layout must go as I need to recover everything on it. I learnt a lot from this and I want to correct some mistakes and have something a bit bigger. Cheers
That's rather an expensive Friday afternoon job then! A damned Dapol, which is a pity, as it looks nice!!! But what rubbish performance from something so expensive!!!!
But what a relatively huge number of likes and comments!!! Well done & well said!
I was very sad about it as I wanted to collect their GWR range but I'm not risking another purchase. It seems to have had quite a few views, how do I get that on the golf channel????
Their Granges seem to be problematic. I bought one off Ebay which ran well for a while then.... I have since replaced the rolling chassis and motor. Still no joy.
I've come to the conclusion it's that shaft driver from the tender. It just doesn't bend very well. I've since learned you have to strip it down and make sure their isn't any plastic flashing on either socket and the shaft itself.
I've got 2 Dapols left in my collection. As soon as the new layout is up and running I'll give them both a good running and make up my mind about keeping them ot not. Cheers.
@@ngaugeonashelf4417 I haven't considered the Cardan shaft. Have even stripped the chassis down. The gear shafts float in their holes horrendously. Have even thought about bushing those
@@56NeilWatson I haven't stripped them down other than to give them a pre running in drop of oil. They are bloody noisy though, I've got Minitrix from the 70's that are quieter. If anything makes me sell my last 2 it will be the noise.
Hi Simon. *If* this is a problem of wheel spacing (back-to-back gauging), then this is not a problem restricted to just Dapol. While frustrating that it is sometimes necessary to adjust the gauge, it is often not too difficult to do. If this is the only issue with this model, then it would be shame to have to return it. Our good friend, Sam, has often mentioned that he doesn't like this method of driving a loco, although the greater percentage of his models are OO gauge (I don't know if this is significant).
I don't know what the issue was Paul. If it doesn't run right straight out of the box it's going back. Sams Trains had some issues too with Dapol N gauge. I've had a Schools, it derailed from time to time and I thought it was my track, especially as I'm not very skilled. I sold it. I got a GWR 2-8-0 and it's noisy but runs okay ish. I got the Britannia class and that likes to derail and will not run backwards at all. It derails all the time backwards. And now 2 of these. Someone said I need to run it in properly. How? If the bloody thing wont go more than a few feet. Cheers.
Agree, I got to this conclusion several years ago….their diesels are good, rolling stock good, but steam is terrible
I've got a Dapol diesel and it's great. Got a broken exhaust that you can't get spares for. Their spares situation is a joke. I don't understand how they can be so poor as QC and spares when GraFar seem to be so good. Shit, I can get spares for MInitrix 1970's models better than a 2 year old Dapol!
I have a few Dapol diesels including the dreaded pacer but they all run pretty well. My class 50’s are also very quiet. However with steam I have a pretty new A4 which has issues with the drive from the tender and also slowing down considerably on relatively reasonable corners. It is also pretty noisy. At the same time I bought a Farish Duchess which I cannot fault at all!
@@johnlevey9935 I was going to buy another Dapol train pack this summer. Not now.
Agree. Their steam tender locos are awful
I run 7 Dapol tender locos all with that drive mechanism and all good. I would say check the driveshaft is properly seated at both ends and check the loco to tender wires aren’t fouling anything underneath. The design won’t be repeated in any new tool models but it does work very well.
Totally agree. Dapol's depressingly poor quality & constantly derailing N gauge steam locos are a joke & are the main reason why I switched to OO gauge a few years ago. Doesn't matter: 4-4-0 Schools, 4-6-0 Grange, B17's, 4-6-2 A1's & A4's are all the same, they just couldn't stay on the track, however well laid it is. Dapol's online forum was full of staff people denying there were any problems too, so bringing it to their attention was just a waste of time. And the spares & repair service / warranty are also completely inadequate. It's also taken them nearly 10 years to realise their Bulleid West County / Battle of Britain locos which are supposed to have die cast bodies & loco drive. Good job I didn't hang around waiting for them, (I have some nice Hornby's now) because they still haven't delivered & will cost around £220 (!!!) for a basic DC model. No thanks, some Minitrix, Grafar or Lima locos from the1970's are still running 50 years later, without any problems except a little oiling every now & again. I doubt if any of Dapol's will even make it into double figures. And because of my bad experiences with their N gauge, I also won't buy any OO gauge from them either. Plenty of good choice elsewhere, including 2nd hand. At the end of the day us model railers just want the relaxing pleasure of seeing a few trains running around nicely, not getting stressed doing autopsies or returning locos for repair only to get another duff replacement. In general the industry needs to wake up, stop charging a lot of money for complete dross & unnecessary "detail" & just make something that looks great & works. Happy modelling! 🙂
I don't mind messing with a 50 year old Minitrix but I'll be damned if I'll put up with crap straight out of the box. I've seen so many problems with Dapol now on youtube. Even Sams Trains had some issues with derailing. I was looking at the size of the flanges and they are very shallow. Some things should be made over size and flanges are one of them.
Sad to hear the company now taking complaints seriously, that was the main reason I went back to the retailer - he can have the headache of dealing with them. Another annoying feature is lack of spares and yet GraFar do spares for locos going back years. Thanks for the comment.
It is weird with Dapol stem locomotives, some people seem to have no issues whereas others have a tale of woe. Sadly I fall in to the latter category and decided several years ago that I would not buy anymore. Dapol’s general quality control is also poor although their rolling stock is good.
It all looks very good plus they do GWR but if it doesn't run right it's worthless. I'm going to stick with GraFar from now on. It seems to be a common problem with the tender locos and that shaft drive.
I have two Granges, and they're both awful runners. However, reference your problem, I found it was caused by the bogie hitting the chassis and causing the derailment. I recommend removing the bogie and try running it as an 0-6-0 and see if it goes round your curves then? If it does, cut away the dummy frames at the front so that neither bogie axle can touch them, and you may find that cures the problem. It won't help my jerky running problem which seems to be something to do with the gears. I haven't had time to investigate yet. Sadly, I too am terribly disappointed with Dapol locomotives as a whole. I've tried sending them back to UK for repair but they have always been returned without improvement, often worse. James in Oregon
James, being across the pond makes life very difficult for you. In the comments people have said how poor the after sales service is. Must be a nightmare for you. That is why I took it back to the shop - they at least will know how to deal with Dapol better than I.
If I had bought an old one from ebay I would investigate and fix the problem. I'm not going to fix one straight out of the box, it should be perfect from new. I've looked at the flanges and they look so shallow compared to other manufacturers. Flanges in N gauge should be bigger and not 1:144 scale. Best of luck with your problems.
I have Grange, and it too is a real dog. I stripped it down, and the holes for the drive pinions are way too big.
@@56NeilWatson I can't stand the noise of the ones that do work. The new Graham Farishs I have bought have been practically silent. Plus I don't have to repair them. Cheers
@@56NeilWatson I wouldn't like to say what is the exact problem with this one but I had 2 and they both failed. Off ebay I would fix it, brand new it goes back.
Hi Simon! Oh dear! What a disaster! Reading the other comments you're not alone! It actually looks like a lovely model, but if it doesn't run, what's the point? I've got a Dapol A4 on pre-order, and will have to wait and see if it's as disastrous as this! I'll give it a chance, otherwise, like you, I'll be sticking with GF! Cheers, Ian.
Already looking forward to your video.
Hello Ian, I've had some problems with Dapol. The s models I got of this. The Schools class started derailing. The Britannia class derails in reverse. The diesel I have is wonderful so I put it down to the shaft drive and weighting of the loco. Either way I'm not risking any more money on them. Cheers
Sadly Dapol n gauge steamers are quite a problem. Shame really as they look good but need to run MUCH better.
I think they need a complete rethink about that shaft drive. Ditch it for starters.
I can have some sympathy with this. I brought 2 Dapol Class 35's and they are both disaster areas!
There aren't many who praise them for sure.
Have 6 of these, all DCC fitted and work well, just run it in...all second radius curves too.???
Well, you've been very lucky. I've had 5 Dapols now and only 1 makes it round corners well.
How disappointing, Dapol have some lovely detailed models but their QC just doesn’t cut the mustard
The 2 I had of this model should never of left the factory. No QC at all. Plus it's not the only Dapol model I have had trouble with. Very upset about that and will rely on GraFar from now on.
Dapol really is a mixed bag. When they get it right, they can make fine models, but they make some real howlers.
I seem to have been unlucky. The diesels seem to be just fine and good runners. Cheers
@@ngaugeonashelf4417 Their OO gauge Class 73 is a very quirky beast and much criticised, although it does have a lot going for it. Dapol adopted a ridiculous pick up system which basically results in the contacts getting covered in grease and then slipping off the axles altogether. When that problem is overcome, it runs beautifully and is a very nice model. I'm not averse to making allowances for things like that if the price is right, but they really need to get their quality control and R&D sorted out.
You said it, a real shame. I have a number of Dapol diesels, all are great runners, and well detailed. The pannier tank I have however derails mid corner often. Their tender locos I would never buy based on all I have read and seen. Be good to know what you replaced it with!
I am learning the hard way. The tank I have seen on another channel and they too had running problems. I was going to get the GraFar 5MT in green but he couldn't find it amongst his stock so I got a 2MT in green instead and £13 credit back on my card. I have a thing about the 2MT and smaller locos.
@@ngaugeonashelf4417 well I look forward to the review! Thanks for the videos, love watching them 😊
@@nickvdW1958 Cheers
maybe it will improve with running.
Not my job to make it better. Dapol should have some quality control. I took it back and replaced it. This is not the first one to give me trouble. The Schools class was just as bad and is gone. I'm not overly impressed with the Britannia class either. I thought it was my track laying but everything else runs with no problems. It's just Dapol steam engines. Cheers
@@ngaugeonashelf4417 As you say the prop shaft arrangement is not ideal.
@@ngaugefouroaksstreetstatio6932 Judging by the comments a lot of people have had an issue.
Most of the Dapol whingers never show us their track. Unless you have spotless rails, properly fitted joiners and uninterrupted power you'll always have trouble.
My Minitrix 9F has no problem with that corner. Looking at the Dapol I would say the wheel flanges are too shallow.
@@ngaugeonashelf4417 "I would say the wheel flanges are too shallow." You have a point there. There are one or two manufacturers adopting this design with shallow flanging. Might look more realistic but pointless if they keep derailing over points, crossings and tighter curves. I'm afraid you'll just have to adopt my tactic, just don't buy them. 😮💨
@@TheSps24 Some things should be oversize. Larger than scale. Flanges and couplings seem to be 2 of those items. I was going to be buying a Dapol train pack this summer. I'll save my money now. Cheers.
To this day, N-scale is really much better with diesel and electric locomotives, than with many steamers. That kind of drive in tender with a shaft to the drive wheels in the locomotive is sadly a stubborn thing for some makers. It produces torque, that can toss any engine, especially going through switches! I do not have British types, but a lot of German models by Arnold, Minitrix, Fleischmann/Roco, Piko, Brawa, and Kato/Hobbytrain. My old Arnold locomotives from the 80s, mostly designs from the 70s, are the least fussy of all my locomotives! They may run a wee fast for scale speed, but they do so very smoothly! The state of many modern N-scale model designs is appalling, considering past experiences!
However, if you ever run into North American models made in America or anywhere in Asia in the last century, just skip them altogether, because it is mostly total junk! Here is where Kato shines with their new gear, which actually is indeed not just new, but really improved. As far as my German collection is concerned, the last few models I bought around 7 years ago or so, because they have gotten ridiculously expensive, and discount sales dried up. I am just happy my DB and DR collection is past counting, and my Amtrak stable is also filling nicely, thanks to Kato
The price of this stuff is going up exponentially! WHich was one of the appeals of buying Dapol, always that bit cheaper. Now I see why. Diesels just don't do it for me. All the modern trains look like they came out of a jelly mould. Thay all look alike, which is of course a product of efficient stream lining. I can't love them at all. Cheers
It's always dapol i have trouble with
It would appear many have had the same problem. Shame really.
Watching Sams trains the other day and he also had exactly the same problems, that tie bar does not look right to me Never bought a Dapol loco as they don't do early LMS..
I saw that on Sams and left a comment. I don't know if it's the wheels, the flanges, the tie bar or the shaft drive. All I know is it should run right straight out of the box. Cheers
Dapol appear to be incapable of making n gauge locos that actually work. I gave up on them long ago.
I have given up on them too now. Too many locos just struggle and that link from the tender is just plain stupid.
Greetings Simon 🖐It is such a shame they persist with such a bad design 👻It will be interesting to see how their Battle Of Britain loco performs, if it every arrives 🙄Very best wishes to The Attic from the Emerald Isle ☘
Hello Paul, I will never know about the battle of britain as they will not be seeing the colour of my money again. There was 3 other locos I wanted but I'm not taking the risk anymore. Cheers
In rail terminology, what the heck's a 'corner'?
If you ride the train from Gloucester to Bristol Temple Meads you will find out what a corner is as you slow down to 15mph to get round it. That's a corner.
Hello, I have the same problem with class66, it has no rubber tires on the wheels and with a larger number of wagons it won't even climb a 2% hill, shame on dapol... they should at least make rubber tires on a pair of wheels...!!!
They should be putting tyres on locos these days. We don't all build flay layouts. Cheers
Yep I can relate, i only buy GF locos these days.
I'm learning the hard way. Dapol spares are a joke too. How can I get spares for a 1970's Minitrix easier than a 2 year old Dapol?
Dapol locos are known for derailing, both in n and oo. I had an n gauge class 73 and all it did was jump the tracks. I also bought the first Hymek when it first came out and also the new Farish class 37 which was far superior in running quality.
When i look closely my thoughts are the flanges are too shallow. I don't know about OO so can't comment on that. When I compare Dapol to GraFar and MInitrix and Peco it's rearly obvious. Cheers
@ngaugeonashelf4417 on the Hymek, I thought the flanges were to big.
@@DavidJones-wx4im I don't know what a Hymek is I'm afraid. My knowledge is limited. I know on code 80 you can have problems with large flanges hitting the chairs. I know that isn't my problem that I have here. Cheers
@ngaugeonashelf4417 the Hymek was a Class 35 diesal hydraulic that ran on BR's Western Region.
@@DavidJones-wx4im Oh right, thankyou. I love this hobby, there is always someone who knows the answer to any question. I shall delve into google and read up on it. Thanks
I’ve a Rivarossi Scot that’s is 50 years plus old. It’s tender shaft drive driven. Runs and sounds much much better than that N gauge loco. Even has lights! Such a shame from a new loco. Don’t they do pre production checks?
I've never owned a Rivarossi, I guess I have nver seen them in shops. The old Peco tender drive I had for a while was very good. The loco part had enough to be pushed and stay on the track. Some of these old locos are brilliant and so easy to clean and lube. I only let the Peco go because spares were non existant. Which isn't surprising on such an old loco.
I don't know what their quality controls are but judging by the comments they are most definately poor. Cheers
Yes i have a grange it only moves if i put a weight on the tender other wise its useless
I think they have the design wrong. Put the motor in the tender and drive the tender, put the motor in the engine and drive the engine. I really do think there is an issue with the drive shaft and obviously quality control. The first one I had was worse than a 50 year old Minitrix that hasn't been run for 40 years. I got rid of it straight away as it was the second one that wouldn't go round corners. Cheers
I had around 7 Dapol Tender Locos, Sold the lot except one. Nothing but a constant arse around everytime you want to run them, I have 1 left, funny enough it's a Grange too, and yep, it's crap. Tender Drive went out of fashion in 1971 because it's a crap idea. Their Westcountry Classes are out soon. £180.00. Not going to risk it then ? haha.
I am not averse to tender drive if they put enough weight in the loco. I just think it's that bloody awful shaft drive idea. The Minitrix i have doesn't like being stood for a month and I always give the motor a little clean. 5 minute job. But I can't be arsed with Dapol any more. I'll give their new stuff a miss and just wait for Farish to put out new locos. Cheers
@@ngaugeonashelf4417 The problem with tender drive is that it is pushing at a central point from behind the loco, so as the front starts to go around a curve the tender is still trying to push the rear of the main loco straight until the tender gets on the curve with it, even then it's still upsetting the balance, trying to push straight at the point where the loco and tender bend. larger scales might be more successful with it, but N Gauge not so much in my opinion. it's a shame that their tender locos are so tempramental, Dapol Locos look fantastic. I think it's time they got the motors in the loco itself and the DCC in the tender. I hope the new Westcountry Class are not tender drive, but suspect they will be sadly. If so, you can count me out too. Good Luck.
@@chuffinel7676 From what I have read in the comments it can be the shaft that wants to stay straight. Plus the wires between the loco and tender that can interfere as well. The diesels run well as they have neither of these problems.
Whatever it is I will keep my money in my pocket until it's fixed. Cheers
One approach is to seek a refund. The problems are 1/ from where are you going to get another 'Grange'? 2/ You don't grow. 3/ You can't help anyone else with the same problem. I took it back is an unlucky answer. 4/ I do not like being beaten!!!!!!!!!! Especially by one of these things. Having said that, I'm not sure even Bugs Bunny himself could solve some of the terminal pickup un-designs on some models. But we are yet to investigate the same on this loco.
Here are some ideas, perhaps not for you; perhaps for you?
1/ Remember the test layout is not yours. Build your layout 'around' the locos you have. I bet the loco will work for you. If not: solve the problem. Think about large radius curves; a good way to look at N is that it builds HO layout designs to what they should be. For example: the minima (big word) on a sensible HO layout might be no 6 turnouts (NOT on curves) and 24" curves with transitions. Ok: do that in N. Your running problems will likely evaporate. It is a bit like respecifying (another big word) the HO design to 50" curves and no 8 turnouts in round figures. Think about going around the wall (not up it). Even in a smallish room that does wonders. Just make sure your removable access bridge does not bar the door from opening from the outside. Perhaps swing the door outwards - If you have a heart attack or accident people must be able to get in and get you out.
2/ Join an engineering oriented club.
Modelling is a developmental sequence rather than a buying exercise. The manufacturers need our support, not raspberries. From where I stand that Grange is a wonderful start that means I don't have to scratchbuild. See it as a kit assembled to a minimum standard so discerning modellers like you can refine.
See it all as a chance for growth. My qualification for commenting is that I have made more mistakes than anyone else; not quite the throwaway line it seems.
If these ideas do not apply: throw them.
Thanks for sharing.
Hello Peter, a comprehensive reply. First it has gone back and been exchanged. Like any product if it isn't right out of the box I take it straight back. This was the second one so my patience was nil.
One thing I would say about my curves and my awful track laying is that Dapol is the only manufacturer that struggles. I therefore blame Dapol.
I am not a modellor. I have no skills. I can watch youtube and pick up tips from other youtubers but I will never be a modellor. To be honest I'm not sure I want to be either. It's a hobby and I do my best with these fists of ham and my limited eyesight. However, there is nothing more peasurable than taking a Minitrix non runner and making it run. Maybe because I'm an electro mechanical enginner (although I fly a desk these days and don't get my hands dirty). I understand low voltage DC and moving parts.
I will not be modifying this layout. In fact this layout will be dismantled. It was a learning curve to going on to bigger and better things. Including better curves. Small boards require set track curves, large boards do not.
But I am no modellor, I will not be scratch building anything and I will simply do my best with what I have. Now if you want to see serious then watch my golf channel and me hitting a 20 foot putt with 12 feet of break downhill. Now then I'm an artist, but not with railways.
Thanks for your input. You are kind.
@@ngaugeonashelf4417 Thanks for your reply. There has been a win here: someone liked. That is the point of all this: someone was encouraged as I often am, and frequently from comments. It is a great way to spread encouragement.
Two things come to mind. There is confusion over the 'test' layout - I misunderstood 'This isn't my track'. The comment was about layout specs and was not a criticism. My fault, like everything else - excepting Golf.
Secondly, congratulations on making non-running classical Minitrix run. My recent Minitrix history could be the subject of its own Oscar worthy horror film. It appears that Marklin cylindrical commutator brushes can be easily 'sized' to replace the Minitrix non-soldered brushes, and probably also the soldered brushes if plated first. Increasingly, and across the board, we cannot get spares. Utube is greatly useful in encouraging folk to get their old and second-hand models running: hopefully my comments were of use to someone mired in some 'Tropic of Calculus' somewhere (Tom Lehrer's idiom). I take a lot of good ideas from RUclips and have made at least one friend. Comments are my way of giving at least something back. The comment previous to yours was on a Lima Cl. 50. Again: last I looked no brushes available though there might be now. That channel is providing something that matters for a lot of modellers. As with me, he is not an expert, but his channel is of value.
As someone with engineering experience, have you got any ideas on a raw material from which to make brushes, or are the variations in specific applications so variable as to make the question effectively unanswerable? One modeller uses old washing machine brushes for raw material; others starter motors etc.. The problem is we don't know what the factory specs for either the train or the 'washing machine' are/were.
As I keep warning about a lot of what goes on modifying models: everything we do shifts the device away from factory settings; settings that were originally signed off by an engineer. Hence the question, and I think I know what the answer will be. Of course, let's remember that even just age steadily shifts a model from factory settings - magnet atrophy alone will do that.
I notice one approach to isolating the brushes while 'DCCing' a certain loco involves feeding the traction current through a now isolated brush spring. If anyone is following this string the subject of traction current through brush springs is thoroughly and professionally dealt with by Dave Ramirez in ruclips.net/video/E5W0xy2SMyM/видео.html Folk seldom listen. The meaty bit comes in the discussion after the repair.
At least locos, repaired or not, should be regularly common-sense duration tested for heat buildup, and when in use subject to a conservative duty cycle. If you feel this is enough in your area and time permits, comments would be appreciated.
Yours in the interest of encouraging sensible and affordable modelling.
Much enjoyed - even if it is by computer.
Don't forget to check blood-pressure after Golf.
g
@@petert9749 Hello again Peter. The trouble with print is what is intended is lost in black and white characters.
My experience with Minitrix brushes contains an awful lot of swearing and not much progress. They are so fiddly and I try to clean around them. One time I had a set pop out of the spring while cleaning and it took me over 40 minutes to get the damn things back in. If i had some serious trouble with a minitrix motor I would try and source one from ebay. In fact I have one now waiting patiently for parts.
One youtuber I watch a lot of is OO Bill who repairs OO scale locos. It's larger, it's easier but is still helpful in N gauge. The biggest problem I see in N gauge with non runners is oil. The loco runs poorly so gets drowned in oil which makes it worse. Then I get a loco on ebay for cheap and clean it and get it back to running. Then I might sell it on for twice what I paid for it. As to replacment brush material, not sure. Best just to replace the brushes for new. But they will need running in as they will be flat and the commutator is round.
I haven't done any DCC conversions as I don't run DCC. Not that I don't like it - I simply cannot afford it nor do I wish to chop up the wiring of my old locos. They are touchy enough without me making matters worse. However, I did buy a DCC non runner loco off ebay very cheap. I took the chip out and put in a blanking plate and it ran fine. I contacted the seller and told them what the resolution was and asked them if they wanted it back. I put it on with a buy it now price and he clicked the button to buy it back at the same price. He replaced the chip himself.
When I get in the attic I'm going to record every step this time rather than skip ahead a month. I didn't do it on this as I didn't have the confidence to show off my awful skills! They are still awful but this time I will show how awful they are. Cheers
@@ngaugeonashelf4417 Forty minutes! That is a brilliant effort; it took me longer than that to not find the brush springs. Your comments on replacing brushes with new was very much appreciated. Without factory specs it is about all we can say. As far a I know classical Minitrix brushes are no longer available and nobody has made reproductions. I know nothing of modern production Minitrix.
I'm rattling my tiny mind to think of anything we have not said between us that might help an information hungry beginner. Old equipment is iffy. Further more, you never know when a kid is going to get hold of this stuff, so there is an imperative to make safe. I suppose duration (an hour or so) running to check for heat buildup is about as good as we can do. If a Minitrix works it is probably worth taking an Ebay punt on buying. Watch price; some of it is sold for way too much - I cut out at about 20 of your pounds. If inspection is possible look for condition of the pickup wipers on the wheels. Minitrix are about the only company in my experience who well manage wipers pressing on the wheels. Most non Minitrix of the era and many modern products I have seen (note the condition) have 'knife blade' wipers that lose tension and then contact. Insult is added to injury as the transfer to frame is via the top of the wiper, usually a bent loop, springing against the frame. Like the wheel contact tension is lost and so reliable contact. Remember this only my experience. Classical Minitrix have a wiper to transfer from bogie to a pad under the fuel tank. Often this loses tension. Easily fixed: just 'hard' wire with thin soft wire. These products are now at least forty years since: I don't know how much magnet life is left in the motors; neither do I know if one of Ronald Dodd's wonderful remagnetisers will work as there are two magnets nestled at opposite sides of the 'can'. For scratch building, modifying the chassis or remounting the components into a scratchbuilt chassis are for experienced modellers. Anyone following our string, just believe it! Let's just say it is not a job for a migraine day. No golf course is as difficult.
Don't be afraid to pick up non runners for spares: when playing with all this I swapped out the rubber tyred wheels for non tyred. Rubber tyres are probably not replaceable at this distance and they play havoc with pickup. Common practice is to mount wheels in a drill/Dremel chuck for turning down, but this is fraught: a drill is not a lathe (ask at a club). Also remember these models have coarse wheel standards, and fitting Microscale couplers can be difficult, especially if you want frame mounting. These models are 'unit design' and are not made to be worked on.
These are old models and old designs.
For control (non DCC) ask around RUclips or a club for advice on a good pulse/transistor throttle. I use Don Hansen's 'Throttle with a Future' from Kalmbach 'Model Railroader', June? 1975 for Half 'O' and N scale testing. It has a pulse circuit for starting and stopping the trains, but it can be turned off leaving main sequence running to smooth DC. I believe the components are still available, and if you can't build one alone, join a club. Always check heat. It turns a good loco into a really good loco, but a junker is still a junker. TEST! If it does not work under your conditions, you have gained experience and lost little. My power-supply is an old Triang P5A transformer, and all has been checked out by a qualified person.
The Americans are lucky: they have Kato/Atlas, and a good used market. If you get a chance, have a long look at the Kato design, especially the pickup and current transfer from bogie to frame. Brilliant!
Thanks to our host; would other viewers PLEASE share their experiences: it helps. For example someone shared the difficulties in moving classical Minitrix worms. It really helped, as did demonstrating turning down flanges.
And yes: 'OO Bill' is excellent, as is 'Mr Snooze'. Also, for those struggling with eyesight and dexterity, try 'The Third Rail'. Yes it is Marklin, and No, it does not have to break the bank. Under limited space conditions, Marklin set-track can be seen as a form of N scale. Also remember Dave Ramirez' Warbonnet Trains' on servicing that Kato steamer. It includes a professional treatment of brush springs and how to run models.
Would viewers PLEASE share experiences! And keep sharing. There is nothing wrong with being wrong; the only people who never muck up don't muck up because they never do anything. We just need to carefully alert to anything dangerous. Hope this helps someone.
Thanks host.
Dapol didn’t design the chassis ixiom did but their chassis’s did work better
I'm certainly not risking any more of my money on them. I've had too many problems.
Cheap Chinese rubbish, sad to say common these days. You get what you pay for at a manufacturing level Best Regards Andrew
It's a common problem. Shift manufacturing and you have problems. Watching OOBill on youtube the chinses Horby models are just as poor.
Stick to N Gauge Bachmann style, that works a lot better.
It certainly does. I've looked back at videos of the Dapol Britannia class, the Dapol Schools class and they both had derailing problems. I know I'm crap at laying track and ballesting but it's only Dapol that struggles. As well as that awful shaft drive I think the flanges are too shallow. Cheers
The only decent Dapol model I have is their 142, but even that is grindy as hell. Everything else I have from them is pretty awful.
They do seem to be a pile of crap. I'd rather spend more money. Noisy and that shaft drive is a joke.
i only own one Dapol loco- the 9F, it took me 3 attempts at buying to get a runner and the final one was a second model from ebay , they are overly noisy whereas mf GF loco are silent, i hate the cardan shaft as it just looks ugly and you cannot detail the cab area , i hate it when there is a big announcement of a new loco but it's dapol, oh well never mind , very much looking forward to the GF lms twins diesels .
I cannot agree more. I know people complain about GraFar being more expensive but I haven't had a problem with them. I'd rather buy a 1970's Minitrix and get it going than but a new Dapol. My other issue with them is the small couplings which let go too easy. Ah well, going to the GraFar day out and will see what they have for sale there. Then I might just dump the other 2 Dapols I have on ebay and cut my losses. Another problem is lack of spares.
@@ngaugeonashelf4417 i have just noticed after getting this reply but look at the model in the first seconds of the video whilst still boxed, the number plate on the cab side is applied at a wonky angle , lol .
@@gavinblackburn3105 I did notice that myself. It's just poorly done. Poor design and poor execution. I don't know where they are made but it looks like cheap hong kong christmas cracker stuff.
Buy Kato N . Third of the place, excellent quality and not made in China.
Kato look very good but not my era really. Cheers.
Do they make GWR steam loco's😂
I got fed up as more than one of mine was fitted with wheels from a clown's car....
I like that! Cheers
That's a shame not good enough when it derails take it back get money back
It went back and was exchanged for a GraFar. These things should run correct right out of the box. I got told I should run it in. How? It didn't make the first corner!
dapol wagons are poor too, me, never again
I've got coaches and the couplings are so small they let go. I've only got 1 wagon. But yes, my money is not going in their direction again.
you need the motor over the driving wheels,i have a dapol railcar that works really well,agreed a bit of bad design...........jpj
My Dapol railcar is really nice, runs very well. But I'll be damned if I can find spares for it. I have no idea how you make models and not provide spares. I'm not happy.
@@ngaugeonashelf4417 agreed,this is problem, its not very clever...............jpj
@@JohnJohnson-cn9fh I tried Peters Spares but it just says out of stock. I don't hold out much hope to find a tiny bit of trim.
Hi ya.
What a shame looks a pretty model but no good if you can't use it.
I'm oo and my
Dapol diesels do have a bit of a problem with whining.
Thanks for sharing buddy. Sorry for your disappointment.
.... Pete....
It happens Pete. I think it's a poor design. Wouldn't surprise me if I had looked into it to find it's the shaft drive causing it rather than wheel spacing.
Ok I can already see problems with the mechanism the fact that they used the old drive shaft tactic Should not have been used Bachmann made N. scale 0-6-0s with Scale proportions And the motor inside the engine And the motor on this engine is noisy
It's noisy and a poor design. It's a real shame as I intended getting more GWR locos. Now I will wait to see what GraFar produce next year.
It reminds me of Bachmann n scale American 4-4-0 drive its noisy not as poor designed
@@chasesrailwaylinesrr6447 I've not experienced any American models so can't comment. Plenty of European I haven't tried either. Cheers
Kind of Figure that I was just giving another example of a model that is similar to this rubbish
@@chasesrailwaylinesrr6447 Sorry if I miss read what you wrote. Not had this many comments before even on my golf channel. The brain skipping the words a bit. Cheers
Cant stand Dapol Ive had 5 n gauge engines all are redused to spares
I've found out the hard way. I've still got 2 and am considering selling one of them. It's an expensive mistake sadly.
Refund city.
Swapped it out for Farish. Was a good swap too, ran straight out of the box with no problems.
Normally, Dapol 's OO gauge models are really good. I can't say for N gauge however, as I don't own any of those models.
@@pettra1 I can only speak for myself but I've had issues. But the OO does appear to be a lot better in every way. Cheers.
Got an A4 with the same tender drive and plastic shaft arrangement, totally rubbish, derailes all the time, no more Dapol locos for me
John, it seems to be very common. I have al ittle more faith in my awful track laying now. The flanges look so shallow, never going to make it round a set track corner like that. Minitrix will go round a rad 1 curve and point.
I've got a Dapol Castle & a County in OO gauge, older locos now but they run great, well I'm only running N gauge on 1st and 2nd radius my GF stuff run's okay, I've got a couple of Dapol diesels and they run fine, I'm also not keen on the Dapol steam locos, the shaft on the A4 keeps popping out so if you don't connect everytime it just spins, if I'd have known when I bought it for my grandson brand new well words fail me it's a bag of yeah you know, John
@@johnbill9201 John, they are bad. I've got 1 Dapol diesel left which I like and runs well. In the steam I have the GWR 2-8-0 which is just about acceptable. Then the Britannia which really doesn't like bends at all. I might sell that one. In fact I will. I'd rather get something from Farish. Cheers
sounds awful too!
Bloody awful. When I run the GWR 2800 it ruins the sound which means editing a video becomes hard work. Having to turn it down in every clip. In reverse it sounded worse if that's possible. Then I buy a GraFar and it's so quiet and smooth. I know who will get my money in future.